Can someone confirm this in FEMM?

[broli]

I have been using this simulation software called vizimag to establish the field strength between magnets and the attraction they cause on a moving magnet. I'm simulating a certain setup now and every simulation I have performed shows COP > 1 for this setup. The highest I got so far is 4. This setup is as basic as it gets, I stumbled on it while looking at something unrelated. I now want to confirm it's not the software giving me wrong results by having someone else confirm the data in FEMM.

[broli]

This is odd. A few months ago I was doing some very similar research which I completely forgot about. I even had a mathematical model for the field strength on the x axis.

http://www.energeticforum.com/46535-post4.html

I have calculated the integral using Mathematica for the red area, which goes from 0 till where the derivative is 0. And for the green area, which starts from the point where the derivative is 0 and goes to infinity. A very strange seemingly random number pops up.

The green area is ALWAYS, no matter what gap distance d is chosen, 2+sqrt(6) times bigger than the red area. This is 4.45 times, meaning the COP is 4.45 if you let it go to infinity. I find it funny that its exactly 2+sqrt(6) in every possible case. I thought this function would give a COP of 1 if you divided the green area by the red.

At least vizimag confirmed this when one test showed a COP of 4 when the magnets where chosen to be thin and close to each other.

Of course the next question is would this be self accelerating when put on a wheel.

[gotoluc]

Hi Broli,

are you not seeing the same thing that Dr. Kenneth C. Kozeka has found: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Kedron:Eden_Project:Permanent_Magnet_Energy_Gain

Thanks for sharing

Luc

[lumen]

I have some similar magnets and could probably collect some actual data at constant increments that could be compared to your FEMM analysis.

4.0 > COP is not likely though.

I tested the EDEN setup also and came to the conclusion that it worked until I fixed my scale by removing all spring in the mounting, then the gain was gone!
One cannot use a spring scale when testing magnetic force.

[broli]

Luc the idea is slightly different than the EDEN setup. This concept uses the repulsive field 2 magnets create. What simulations,math and experiments show is that there's a high point (maxima) in the field near the zero point.

If you would thus place a magnet oriented along this horizontal field it would want to go to this maxima. If you put a magnet near this maxima you will notice that the magnet will not be pulled between the two fixed magnets but it will encounter a wall slightly before its front goes between the magnet. This experiments can give you the location of the maxima of every set of magnets. I used ferrite magnets to prove this as they are more forgiving than neo's. This proves the theory and simulation that there are maximas that the magnet wants to go to and stay at. But does it also prove that the Integral of energy gain is bigger than energy loss? Only more experiments can conclude this.

For small setups the gap needs to be small if you want the COP to be high. The gap determines how fast this general COP of 4.45 is achieved. Another parameter is the width of the magnets. Basically what you want is for that two maxima points to be as close to each other as possible.

Attached is a recycled rendition I used for this setup. I'm not sure whether the rotor should be bigger so the rotor magnets make a more linear path near the stator magnets.