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Easy to stretch/mold material to wind a Rodin Coil? +questions

Started by Cloxxki, October 05, 2009, 03:57:48 PM

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Cloxxki

Only those formerly acquainted with Rodins Coils may see reason to read beyond this.
Those who do eat everything labeled "Rodin" for cookies, will by now be tired of my crusade :-)
I must say though, the things I've gotten fired up about in my life, usually ended up confirming I was onto something. Here, I'm not promoting myself, but correct execution of a superior mind's designs.

I'll try to be brief, which is harder for me than anthing else, as you can just from my intro and disclaimer, please bear with me, or skim.

So, the graphical numerical coils tend to have a tiny hole, or at least a bit smaller than the diameter of the toroid tube itself.
Question A : Is this to make the doubling circuit geometry work, or only because of wiring angle chosen?

Next, ALL the Rodin Coils actually wound I've seen, featured the contrary geometry: hole larger than toroid tube. I can answer the "why" question : the Fisherprice plastic donuts are affordable and practical enough for a proof of concept. And, the conceptual initial experiments are mind boggling.
YET, the wire only follows the surface of the Toroid on the outside. The inside it not covered. A web with round centre hole is formed, as it the toroid tube were droplet shaped in diameter. I'm afraid this double line up well with the very specific and logical geometry the Rodin Solution proposes.
So, B : How hard is it to make a similar plastic air core, that DOES have the smaller holer, and, is that even necessary? I think it is.
Someone with a pottery in his basement (at least some clay, cast and a turntable) should be able to product a crude mold for an upscaled (apart from the hole) toroid. Heck, perhaps cast is strong enough to wind around? One might want to coat it with spray glue or something first.

Then the next problem presents itself. Wires pile up in the hole of such a toroid. Why: the wire is of constant diameter, the graphical toroid shows the contraction and expasion of the number group series strips, something a regular wire cannot do. So, how to deal with that?
Some options I see.
-1- ignore spacing for the 3rd series, and just stuff all wires adjacent in the hole surface. On the outside, the wires will spread and offer the spacing there, lots of breathing space for the 3-6-9 series.
-2- use a 3rd non-conductive wire to get the perfect spacing 3-6-9 deserves, also through the hole, and spread wires out towards the outside as with -1-.
-3- here it somes : elastical wire of some kind, which allow for being long+narrow through the hole, and short/thick along the outside. Even if such a wire exists, still hard to wind evenly. Narrow wire as through the hole would offer more resistance (and magnetism?) per cm of wire as on the coil, thicker wire on the outside would conduct better. Question C: would the longitudinal stretch compensate for this? Might depend of the material. Anyway, this seems less important, geometry gets my prio here.
-4- alternative wire cross-sections from "round". D: Should I see Rodin's toroid drawings as strips of paper as covering the surface, or as a cubical tube, morphing as it's wrapped around? Less width where covering the deeper layer. In any case, round wire seems to be off-perfect geometrically? Please your remarks. E: What magnetical properties are to be expected of strips of sheet copper wrapped around a toroid, to closely mimic the numical presentations? And what about resistance, and maximum load capacity? Current thin gauge wire Rodin Coils seem to burn up easily. Or at least the underlaying plastic does. I'd like to see a more tough design, while being of similar dimensions. Also, I can imagine that a 10*.5 copper strip (random figure) would require fewer reps.
-5- Perhaps the most high-tech, hard-to-do. Such a copper strip, pre-rolled (thick-thin) and pre-cut (wide-narrow) to exactly work out when being wound. Thin and narrow when passing through the hole, Thick and Wide around the outside. Like a 2-dimensional sine, if you will. A computer similation would be required to wrap the toroid in perfect proportion, and the unwrap to show what the wire/strip looks like when laid flat. A rolling/cutting robot would then tailor-make this.
F: Not worth all the trouble? If you could please tell me that convincingly, I would sleep a lot better, or at least see more TV, thank you :-)
-6- Imagining a much thicker strip, like 10mm surface width, 8mm inner side width, and 9mm thick. One wrap may or may not do the job, and accept huge loads? Glad to hear why this is nonsence when looking for high efficiency coil performance in any field.
-7- Alternative toroid tube cross-sections could be designed, to work with the stacking up of wires through the hole, and still end up with an average coppe shape that closely resembles a pure toroid. This may not be possible, or also very hard, but I thought I'd mention.

Please offer your ideas on this, and any effects of any imperfections in wire geometry? What is there to win, or lose, in terms of coil performance?
One drawing actually offers the extreme droplet shape which would be the result of stacked up, constant gauge wires. At least so it seems. I'm referring to the David Icke picture I'll try to upload last.

Thanks for your patience, and lending me your minds. Just one potter able to make some basic toroid for the master winders to go crazy with, that's be great.

Yours truly,

J

Freezer

Glad to see you here Cloxxki.  :)

I already made a rodin coil which has a very small center hole, but haven't tested it yet, as I've been doing a lot of Stiffler stuff.  All I did was use an acrylic torus, about 1.25" in the center and wound through it.  It really a pain in the @$$.  :D  I'm also using the basic rock a stack toroids.  I was thinking of molding some, but that too can be a lot of work, but after you finish the mold, you can make as many as you would like.


Cloxxki

Hi Freezer, thanks for sharing.

Just tonight, barely searching, I'm stubling on the best Rodin Coil stuff.

http://www.alexpetty.com/2009/10/03/buturff-360-1232-rodin-coil-winding-series/
Here they are working on one of my suggestion (I made the suggestion too late, it was already well worked out)

And the videos of user http://www.youtube.com/user/geomatrix11 show some amazing visualizations. The guy has a glass toroid even. He seems to be a cyclist, which explains his obvious genious. I don't know how I in all my Youtube browsing (it's what I do) managed to not find his work. Is youtube making him hard to find? Even typing his username keeps you 3 clicks away from his channel, it seems, but I digress.

I would be most interested to learn how a one-layer Fisherprice coil perform compared to a more "pure" version with smaller how, or at least better hugging of the wires to the surface.

Looking forward to your ideas about making the toroid even more like the number series.

J