buoyancy cycle: mg where the h is free

[mscoffman]

electrolysis + fuel cell technology is comming very close to a reversable process. (very few losses when care is taken)

i propose the following buoyancy cycle:

1) Water - a container sitting "low" in a gravitational field.
2) electrolysis to break the liquid into two buoyant gasses
3) tanks to capture these gases placed "high" in said gravitational field.
4) a fuel cell to convert the energy from these gasses back to continue the electrolysis process.
5) a generating mechanism to convert the (free) gravitational potential energy gained during the gasseous stage of the cycle.

sort of a perpetual waterfall.

class dismissed, have a great weekend.

Couple of problems;

a)Hydrogen gas will compress at the bottom of a tall water column -
this will lessen it's bouncy. So the fluid columns can only be so tall.

b)Oxygen will be absorbed into the water, unbalancing the stochiometric
reaction balance, at least at first.


:S:MarkSCoffman

[gsmsslsb]

electrolysis + fuel cell technology is comming very close to a reversable process. (very few losses when care is taken)

i propose the following buoyancy cycle:

1) Water - a container sitting "low" in a gravitational field.
2) electrolysis to break the liquid into two buoyant gasses
3) tanks to capture these gases placed "high" in said gravitational field.
4) a fuel cell to convert the energy from these gasses back to continue the electrolysis process.
5) a generating mechanism to convert the (free) gravitational potential energy gained during the gasseous stage of the cycle.

sort of a perpetual waterfall.

class dismissed, have a great weekend.

Excelent
  I had the same idea but using the bingo type arc for the gas production.
Does anyone have the efficiency data for underwater arc HHO production.

[spoondini]

Did a few minutes of research and back of napkin calculations:

Theoretical maximum efficiency for H2 production via electrolysis:
32.9 kwh/kg of H2
or 118,440,000 joules

When converted back to water, the 1 kg of H2 will be about 5 kg's of water

Using earth's gravity to acellerate the 5 kg of water at 9.8 m/s^2, I believe we would need to drop it from 2,417,143 meters to recover the energy used to produce the hydrogen gas.

Another observation - 02 is not buoyant.  It will require energy to elevate.
My thought was to let the H2 rise, combust it at altitude to reconstitute the water (and recapture some energy) with atmospheric 02.  Even with energy recapture, we're looking at some really tall water return systems to make enough hydro power to even meet energy unity.

These numbers are also using theoretical maximum efficiencies, in reality we would be lucky to net 50% via all the conversion processes.

Great idea, not sure how practical.  Please let me know if I made any serious math flaws.

[gsmsslsb]

Did a few minutes of research and back of napkin calculations:



Using earth's gravity to acellerate the 5 kg of water at 9.8 m/s^2, I believe we would need to drop it from 2,417,143 meters to recover the energy used to produce the hydrogen gas.

Another observation - 02 is not buoyant.  It will require energy to elevate.
My thought was to let the H2 rise, combust it at altitude to reconstitute the water (and recapture some energy) with atmospheric 02.  Even with energy recapture, we're looking at some really tall water return systems to make enough hydro power to even meet energy unity.

Great idea, not sure how practical.  Please let me know if I made any serious math flaws.

Why not do it underwater in a column, or lake, or in the sea.
The greater specific gravity difference should allow the energy to be regained at a fraction of the height.
I am not sure but maybe even enhance the efect by using the pressure to displace a greater volume of water. see the attachments

[utilitarian]

Why not do it underwater in a column, or lake, or in the sea.
The greater specific gravity difference should allow the energy to be regained at a fraction of the height.
I am not sure but maybe even enhance the efect by using the pressure to displace a greater volume of water. see the attachments

I believe that producing HHO under pressure decreases the efficiency of producing said gas.