Flynn's Parallel Path

[smarthousesys]

I have noticed that at least one of Flynn's earlier patents relates to a Torbayish style  over unity motor. I wonder if anyone has looked at this in any detail - us patent 5753990

[jake]

The Flynn thing is very interesting at minimum.  It made the cover of a "trade rag" recently.

As hartiberlin pointed out, I suspect there will be issues that arise when things start to rotate.  It can be difficult to predict and understand what is going on when a bunch of conductive mass starts to intersect the flux paths.  I can assure you that currents are being generated in there somewhere.

If, as Username_1 states, the real cop is <87%, Flynn doesn't even have a very good motor at this point.

I read somewhere that he is using steel rotors (no magnets in the rotor).  This seems a little odd to me.  I'm sure that is not where you would start, so I am guessing that experimentation with magnetic rotors uncovered problems, which drove him to steel rotors.  This has to be a compromise, in my opinion.  No "normal" motor utilizes a rotor that is not somehow magnetized, whether it be directly magnetized or induced.

I suspect that even though he can almost quadruple the force with some electrical input, you have the problem of requiring electric input to make the magnet "let go" when you want it to as well.  This automatically requires electrical input to the coil at a higher duty cycle (energise one way to quadruple the force, energise the other way to "let go").  In a normal motor, the electricity is effectively "turned off" to make the proper coils "let go" at the proper point in the rotation, thus it is "free" to let go.  In the Flynn design, it looks like there is a cost to "let go" as well as a cost to amplify.

I think JackH's system makes a little more sense to me.  From what he has described, he has created a "valve" that only requires pulses of current.  I don't see how the Flynn thing could work with pulses only.  Maybe I am missing something though.  The rotary example of the Flynn principle is a little confusing to me.  The "H" looking thing that he uses to demonstrate the force amplification is fairly straight forward (and interesting).  But, it is clear that it would require just as much current to let go as it does to quadruple the force.

I also wonder what happens when you take away the bar across the top and get rid of that flux path.  I am a little confused about whether that bar needs to be there or not, and what happens if it is not.

At minimum, the Flynn device exposes some interesting things.  I would describe what is going on as "coercing" the flux.  The concept of coercing magnetic flux in the way Flynn is doing it is interesting to me.  The question becomes, is there a way to do it with a low enough energy input to make it useful, and do dynamic conditions (motor rotation) cause problems that don't allow it to be useful in motors.

There are also indications that very strong magnets (Nib type, for example) are "too strong" to easily apply to the Flynn concept.  What is that all about?  You have to use stone age magnets to make the thing work???

It is also interesting that what Flynn is doing is not really new, although he appears to be getting patents on "his" ideas.  The old space shoes appear to be the same principle that Flynn is patenting.

[jake]

The space shoes used the same principle of energising a coil to cause the permanent magnets to release by shunting, or coercing the flux path away from the holding point on the shoes.

see:
http://www.cheniere.org/misc/astroboots.htm

A quote from the article:

R. J. Radus, "Permanent Magnet Flux Transfer Principle," Internal Westinghouse paper, date unknown; ______  "Permanent-Magnet Circuit using a 'Flux-Transfer' principle," Engineers' Digest, date unknown (July 1963???), p. 86.



Looks like fundamentally the same principle "Flux transfer" - referred to ca 1963!

Tell me you can't see the similarity between the "flux switching" device and Flynns device?

[Light]

"Tell me you can't see the similarity between the "flux switching" device and Flynns device?".
- There's a difference. In Jack's motor rotor  consists of coils, and stator's field switches somehow by electromagnet. In Flynn's idea coil switches the flux of stator, and rotor - permanent magnet.

[jake]

I wasn't comparing Jack's motor to the flynn device.  I was comparing the space shoes in the link in my last post to the flynn device.

If you follow the link, and look at the "flux switching" device shown in the article, it is fundamentally (exactly) the flynn device.