Claimed OU circuit of Rosemary Ainslie

[poynt99]

Paul,

There are some folks out there that do have a handle on performing power measurements, but the vast majority do not, particularly on these forums.

I thought the measurements on the Ainslie circuit would be relatively straight forward, but I was wrong. I did the testing myself, and I not only have a pretty solid background in electronics, but also with test equipment. Now, I've never claimed to be an expert, but I do have the background and I do try to apply myself, which is what I have done over the years and in particular most recently with the Ainslie circuit and its measurements. I still have plenty to learn myself, and learning I am.

I've gained a lot of knowledge and experience most recently while working on and researching these type of difficult measurements, where not only high frequencies and transients are involved, but the need to measure both current and voltage accurately is required. To the unaware, a few inches of wire is just that, but in reality things are quite different. Probe positioning is everything. Grounding, a nuisance that must be strictly dealt with, etc. It is all indeed a real challenge, but not an insurmountable one.

Single-ended probes may be usable in testing this apparatus, but only if testing is "built-in" or "designed-in" from the very start of the project. Clearly this was not done on Fuzzy's setup, and was only partially implemented in my own, but not to a sufficient level. Accurate measurements are paramount, and as such, the DUT should be designed around this requirement. This is not a trivial endeavor as some have assumed, and continue to do so.

The clear solution is to build up the DUT with testing clearly in mind and use the appropriate probe types. And that is part of what this thread is all about.

.99

[PaulLowrance]

poynt99,

I could agree with that, except I would add that testing the Ainslie circuit is extremely easy by measuring temperatures; e.g., Calorimeter. A calorimeter does not have be expensive. A quick method is with thermistors and a simple circuit. That way you deal with DC, not AC. You did this for the load, and you were so close to completion, so why not spend the short amount of time completing this for the mosfet? If one gets interesting results, then they can spend the $ to buy an prefabricated Calorimeter.

It should be said that your temperature measurements showed that the Ainslie circuit did *not* produce more power output on the load than from the battery. So the only last hope for the Ainslie circuit is also testing mosfet heat production, but I seriously doubt it would be enough for > COP 1.


Paul

[poynt99]

I'm not discounting the calorimetry method at all for these measurements, however it would be rather difficult to obtain one for the power being supplied to the circuit by the source.

The only method available to obtain a POS (power output from supply) measurement, is through the use of either a shunt resistor (filtered or unfiltered) or a current probe, and the source voltage (filtered or unfiltered).

This is the crux of the argument regarding the AT's results. Their POS measurements/calculations are not based on good data. Proof of the Ainslie claim only requires the POS and PIL (power into load resistor) measurements. The PIL measurement was obtained using a DC control test and came to about 4.5W. That leaves the POS measurement, and thus far the AT has not produced an accurate one.

The means to do so is not only well within reach, but has been repeatedly spelled out for them. Their refusal to utilize the suggested methods to obtain the accurate measurements required, is a sure path to not only rejection of their paper (if they in fact do submit one) but perhaps even public ridicule after the fact.

It's unfortunate that stubbornness, pride and delusion reign over common sense in this case. Since the AT refuses to listen to anyone that questions their path, perhaps the true wake-up call will only come when the "no thanks" response to their paper fully sinks in.

.99

[PaulLowrance]

They can believe what they want, but you may as well do the last final temperature measurement on the mosfet since you know better.

As for measuring power produced by the input source (e.g., battery), they have no valid argument for using a DC current probe. A good DC current probe will have add less inductance to the circuit than a 4" straight piece of wire! And it will add sub-pico farad capacitance. So the DC current probe is about as passive as it gets. The other method is too measure the DC voltage across the shunt with an ultra high impedance voltage meter, which often uses a FET op-amp input stage.

Anyhow, I say take the final mosfet temp & control measurements so we can bury this Ainslie claim. Why keep it going? Completing the measurements could save new comers a lot of time.

Paul

[poynt99]

Hi 0c.

Thanks for that link. I read that before and was going to post a link as well, but thought those that want to know, will do so.

.99