Joule Thief 101

[sm0ky2]

@ Mags

nice presentation

@MH

I can't debate you point over point as you take things out of context...

of course you wouldn't compare only current to only voltage... you compare both to both, over time.

In Physics, the term Resonance is defined as: the reinforcement or prolongation of radiation by reflection from a surface or by the synchronous vibration of a neighboring object. (reverberation)

This definition is very vague and arbitrary and does not describe the details that occur during such an event.
While not every definition of resonance includes the term frequency, or interval of emanation, or any other word used to describe a comparable factor among the components that are said to resonate...
Frequency can be used to compare resonant effects.

The demonstration given above by Mags contains some of those such details.

The most important being that resonant waveforms combine with a particular type of interference.
"Constructive Interference" - this means that along the medium, the two combining waves have a displacement in the same vector. This translates to an increase in Amplitude of the combined waveform, when compared to the original waves. Not all constructive interference is a result of resonance. resonance pertains to a particular relationship between the things "resonating". This can be described as a frequency, or set of frequencies.
You can use other qualities of the resonant waveform to describe it if you wish. I prefer frequencies because it's like an abbreviation, instead of talking about how many times per minute 13 pulses (and their inverse) traveled down the wire....
or some other arbitrary concept used to describe pulses through a circuit.



Similar resonance that occurs with sound, also occurs with all other forms of radiation.
A)Two coherent phase lasers combine with amplitudes that are greater than a simple addition of the two beams.

B)In atomic radiation, close to critical mass, - aside from emissions of high-energy particles causing physical reactions in nearby atoms, there is a radioactive frequency-based effect, that irradiates nearby (nonreactive) atoms, and causes them to resonate at or near the SRF of the reactive atoms. It makes them radioactive. Not by a neutron striking random atoms and increasing their energy levels, but every atom within an irradiated substance increases energy by absorption of the radiating energy into the nuclei. and will radiate this frequency for quite some time. Constructive interference of two radioactive atoms, increases the effective radius of the radiating energy field (with respect to that of a single atom). The energy value for this increase is ^2 (exponential).

C) Heat radiation (in certain discrete conditions) radiates at particular frequencies, or intervals of heat emission.
When two heat waves combine in constructive interference, the amplitude (value of heat) observed at the point of interference, is greater than the addition of the two heat waves.

D) Electricity - when you combine two electrical waveforms in constructive interference, the amplitude of the combined waveform increases as a quantitative factor of the frequency. The "actual" combined waveform is affected by the resistance of the circuit, the speed of propagation, and other factors which make the affect vary slightly from that of sound and light. When these factors are properly taken into account, and invariable constants applied, the resulting complex equation is equivalent to a standard interference analysis as A-c above.

E)Physical Vibration - physical vibrations operate much like a soundwave through a solid mass. Constructive interference of physical vibrations increases in amplitude exactly the same as described above. In addition to the physical waves, there is a component of physical dimension that causes interference feedback. (resonant cavity)

These concepts apply to every branch of physics.
electronics is not excluded. there are REASONS engineers implement counter-resonant tactics to stop this effect from occurring.

MOST of these reasons pertain to circuit stability, and being able to perform the particular function for which the circuit was designed. (you ever watch a radio tower transformer explode from resonant waveforms building up in the antennae?)
This is basically what you were stating, but leads me to ask the question::

For what particular function is your Joule Thief designed?

or did you just copy the instructable?

Resonance is not a mythical belief system, it is a natural occurrence. It is the operating function of the cells that keep you alive, and were it not precisely controlled in your microprocessor, the computer you are using right now would not function. It would simply build up the 2.1Ghz (or whatever) waveform until it shorted out across the silicon.

[allcanadian]

@smoky2

D) Electricity - when you combine two electrical waveforms in constructive interference, the amplitude of the combined waveform increases as a quantitative factor of the frequency. The "actual" combined waveform is affected by the resistance of the circuit, the speed of propagation, and other factors which make the affect vary slightly from that of sound and light. When these factors are properly taken into account, and invariable constants applied, the resulting complex equation is equivalent to a standard interference analysis as A-c above.

Just this morning I read an article on room temperature superconductors which implied that the atomic structure which formed along lines or lattice in the material played a major role. I was theorized that the structures formed a wave guide of sorts resonant with the free electrons themselves promoting a self-organizing flow along said lines or super-conduction.


Strange that something which doesn't seem all that complicated could baffle so many for so long. It may be that the term resistance could be described by the scattering effect causing dissipation within the lattice but is not inherent in all materials nor a fundamental law of nature. It would seem resistance only applies to those who cannot wrap their mind around the problem or find creative solutions to work around it as is often the case.


It's always easy after the fact, getting to the after part is the problem.




AC

[sm0ky2]

If you wish to explore this further, the only place I CAN send you is to the bench.

https://wiki.analog.com/university/courses/electronics/comms-lab-isr
This is the very basics of resonance, and pertains mostly to the effects on the coil.
The core used in this experiment assumes the permeability of free space. (air).

Adding a magnetically inductive core, like a ceramic ferrite, can be examined in a similar manner.
Here is someone elses benchwork on this subject.
http://g3rbj.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Self-Resonance-in-Toroidal-Inductors.pdf

[TinselKoala]

6-pad JT + depleted LR44 button cell >> 24 white LEDs (2s12p):

[MileHigh]

Smoky2:

Resonance is an energy storage mechanism.  The critical point being that it is a storage mechanism for energy, it is never a source of energy.

The fundamental description of resonance is that it is a mechanism that stores energy by continuously transforming it back and forth between two complimentary and separate energy storage entities.  In an LC resonator the energy is stored either as voltage across a capacitor or as current flowing through and inductor.  The frequency is determined by the size of the capacitance and the size of the inductance.  That is the basic bare-bones explanation I was looking for.

So for example when a table resonates, the identical process is taking place where energy is stored in two complimentary forms and transfers back and forth between those two forms.

No matter what kind of resonance you are talking about, the same two fundamental properties can be identified and observed.  If you cannot identify and observe them then it is not resonance.

A lot of what you are mentioning is about external signals and how they affect a resonant system where the resonant system has a certain response.  There you are looking at a resonant system acting like a filter to an external stimulus.  Resonance is not really about constructive and destructive interference between two waveforms, that's a whole different story.

So, is a Joule Thief that is operating normally something that demonstrates resonance?  The answer is no.

Resonance is not a mythical belief system, it is a natural occurrence. It is the operating function of the cells that keep you alive, and were it not precisely controlled in your microprocessor, the computer you are using right now would not function. It would simply build up the 2.1Ghz (or whatever) waveform until it shorted out across the silicon.

I don't see anything to do with resonance in living cells.  You can see how easy it is to abuse the term.  You comment about a computer is bizarre. A computer is typically clocked by a crystal oscillator, but that is about as far as it goes.

MileHigh