Joule Thief 101

[picowatt]

Yes it was a simple example, you and TK got the description of Faraday's Law wrong on that one too!!!

How is that? Is it because you feel like ramdomply predicting predictions?

Tommorrow Faradays Law will be predicting Egg for Breakfast I think!!!

Hope I have eggs, if not I might magically change the prediction of eggs to Beetroot Salad.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

So you do not agree that Faraday's law predicts that the induced voltage will be at
a minimum when the rate of change of the magnetic flux is also at a minimum?

Even the reference you posted stated that Faraday's law states that the induced voltage
is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux.  Is it not logical therefore to expect
that when the rate of change of the magnetic field is at a minimum value so too will the induced
voltage also be at a minimum value?

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg480177#msg480177 date=1460330737]


MileHigh

As I alluded to before, the "phase shift" is not even real - there is no phase shift. It's just an abstraction we use to make it easier to describe sinusoidal-type waveforms you see on your scope display.

Phase shift
1-a change in the phase of a waveform.
2- any change that occurs in the phase of one quantity, or in the phase difference between two or more quantities
3- to shift sine and cosine curves either left or right. This is known as phase shift.
What dose in and out of phase mean?
1-being or happening in (or out of) synchrony or harmony.
2-having or in the same (or different) phase or stage of variation.
It would appear MH that you got it wrong again.
If current rises and fall in a primary coil at the same time it rises and fall in the secondary coil,then there current relationship is in phase. If the primaries current rises and falls before the secondaries current,then there current relationship is out of phase.
Why do you keep posting these falsehoods ?.

It's just like using the terms "North" and "South" for describing magnetic fields when in reality neither "North" or "South" even exist.

Well you should give each end of a magnet a name MH,that denotes exactly what each end of a magnet is. First describe as to why 1 end of 1 magnet will attract to 1 end of another magnet,but will repel the opposite end of that other magnet. If it is a flow of something,then what is that flow?
If there is now flow of anything,then what is it that surrounds a PM that is able to provide a force that is equal and opposite to that of which your hands are supplying when trying to push two apposing fields together?.

Now, moving on to Brad's latest clip, now things start to change and you observe different types of phase shifts depending on what is going on.

Hang on a minute
Quote:-->phase shift" is not even real - there is no phase shift
Well this is a mystery .We are looking for things that don't exist

Unfortunately, Brad makes a huge mistake in that clip.  At 14:43 in the clip he says, "We've decreased our power input to the primary, we've increased the power output from our secondary."
He actually never even measured the power input to the primary.  All that he did was monitor the current flow through the primary.

Oop's MH--you not listening to the video's again? 4:48--voltage set to RMS value by FG voltage limiting function

That's a fail that he should never have done, he should have known better.

Fail actually on your behalf--again MH.
See scope shots below.
Scope shot 1-->no oscillating magnet.
Scope shot two-->with oscillating magnet.

He did not measure the input voltage to the primary and more importantly, he did not check the phase between the input voltage and the input current on the primary so that he could properly measure the input power.

Doh--there is that !!phase!! that dose not exist-apparently 
By the way-i did check it,it was one of the first thing's i did when i started of on these experiment's.
But just so as you are happy,i put the small DUT back together to get you your scope shots--see below,as stated above.

It's pretty clear that when he went from just driving the single load resistor to driving the load resistor and the vibrating metal post and associated magnet, that the phase shift between the voltage and the current decreased considerably, and the real power power consumption went up.

Wrong again MH
But your getting good at this lol.--->see scope shots below.

Behind that is another issue that I have mentioned to Brad repeatedly but I don't think it has ever stuck and registered with him.  By adding the vibrating metal post and associated magnet to the system, the electro-mechanical impedance of the system went down, and the corresponding power consumption of the system went up.

Oh dear--wrong again-->see scope shots bellow.

So, if you were a "true experimenter" and really wanted to know what is happening, you would redo the experiment with your secondary scope channel across the input coil to measure the voltage and phase, and with a decent multimeter across the load resistor to measure the voltage.   That would put you in a decent position to make your measurements, and occasionally you could put the secondary channel of the scope across the load resistor to make spot checks on the phase there also.

Looks like i am a true experimenter ,as i did all this long ago.
I have told MH many time's before,that you do not see all that i have done in previous experiments. To fit everything i have done into one video--well you guys would be needing many beer's and bags of popcorn.

Then you would record the waveforms and phases and power flows for every component in the system for the case without the metal post and with the metal post.

Oh-there is those non existent phases again
See scope shots below.

You would do a power audit in both cases and account for all of the power flow in both cases.  The most interesting measurement that could be made, directly or possibly indirectly, would be how much mechanical vibrational power is flowing into Brad's bench.  He mentions this in his clip.  It's safe to consider the power flow into the bench as being a "perfect impedance match" or a "power sink" with no vibrational power returning back into the vibrating post.  However, don't hold your breath.

Perhaps i could borrow that earth quake monitor from you,from the moon landing thread MH?.

Sometimes we get great choral arrangements from the Choir of One Hand Clapping.

Indeed MH-indeed

Brad

[EMJunkie]

So you do not agree that Faraday's law predicts that the induced voltage will be at
a minimum when the rate of change of the magnetic flux is also at a minimum?

Even the reference you posted stated that Faraday's law states that the induced voltage
is proportional to the rate of change of the magnetic flux.  Is it not logical therefore to expect
that when the rate of change of the magnetic field is at a minimum value so too will the induced
voltage also be at a minimum value?

Do you agree that the Only things that Faradays Law Predicts:

   1: The E.M.F
   2: The Sign of the E.M.F

As stated many hundreds of times now, the Sign is Anti Phase. 180 Degrees out of phase from the Source.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[EMJunkie]

Do you agree that Faradays Law is entirely dependant on the accurate measurement of the Angle of, and Quantity of B?

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

[EMJunkie]

y * Z = X


Do you agree that X is the predicted Value? and entirely Dependant on the Values of y and Z?

Or is it y? Or Z?

PW, youre an entire Shed short of a Tool Shed!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org