Joule Thief 101

[Magneticitist]

@Mag 

Ok, then how do you come to that conclusion figuring an electron differential number count as described above? If in your example above you start with 10v and end up with an alternative voltage compared to 5v in each cap when done, how can you explain the electron differential number count that determines that voltage? And if Im incorrect, then please explain why. But if you cannot, not beeing snooty, then why do you believe what you do?

lol definitely not books =). I'm just not understanding the electron differential you speak of not out of disagreement, but sheer ignorance. I don't see it as counting electrons so to speak, but measuring imbalance in charge. but maybe this is what you are saying by differential. the electron ratio to positive charge which produces a voltage. Well I'm saying in reality, we shouldn't lose any electrons like we shouldn't lose any air or water. and we apparently don't. we do lose energy though, rather have to expend some more in the process. so long as those electrons are moving and there is a current, that voltage will not only drop due to resistance, but due to the 'pressure' equalization so to speak when the joules are spread out like jelly long the capacitance of this extra capacitor introduced, which is like another way of saying the electrons are rearranging yet the differential remains the same.

it's like, yea. naturally I want to say it in essence we are basically saying, what happens when I cut this in half? does it form 2 equal halves? sure, why not? I'm just not necessarily saying the voltage unit would be cut in half imo. I'd assume the same total energy, or joules, or whatever you want to call it that was stored, was cut in half.  so basically I think it COULD end up as 5v/5v so long as stored current was adjusted. how would we measure that? electrons I assume. I just don't necessarily think it 10v has to end up as 5v/5v after the dump using equal caps because it seems to work out that way in our other analogies in nature. it most certainly could though and probably does.

[wattsup]

Yes Wattsup.
This is the question that MH asked you and EMJ to answer.
MH answered the question(after a modification to the question),and got it wrong.

I really did not notice that question because at certain times in this thread things got out of hand and I just jump pages to not have an upset stomach. So sorry for missing it.

So feel easy Wattsup,as it was a question MH him self could not answer correctly,and all the bad karma he threw your way,and the gloating he made throughout many threads regarding this question,simply can now be dismissed as garbage.

Anyone can ask a wrong question. So let's try to fix the question. You cannot have an ideal coil if it is to be 5 Henrys, since at such a rather high inductance there has to be "some" resistance. Then you cannot use an ideal voltage because the voltage would always remain the same regardless. So both the voltage and coil cannot be ideal.

So let's  just say the voltage source is non-ideal at over the highest voltage reading in the question which is 4 volts at 3 seconds. So let's give a non-ideal voltage of 12 volts to start and we know this is DC.

So........ I can only answer this question under Spin Conveyance and not under EE Electron Flow. In SC, when you have a DC source, both polarities enter the coil as I had clearly shown in my HCS videos. So if the negative polarity was connected to the coil first, that negative polarity is already at the other end of the coil. When the 12 volts positive is then connected you should get a quasi voltage spike (semi-short or damped short) first then it could indeed drop to 4 volts for about 3 seconds (depends on the available amps) as the positive pushes the negative potential back up to the center of that fat coil. But then the voltage would never drop to zero during the next 2 seconds and show instead a gradual rise to 12 volts again (or almost 12 volts) as both polarities fight it out in the center of that coil. Eventually the thin wires at the center of this high inductance coil having no thermal release will just pop and you will then see 12 volts forever. If you dissect the coil it should show a break near the center.

So............ If anyone has a 5 henry coil and a 12 volt dc source, let's place our bets. hehehe

So........... this just shows only one great formula.......... "ideal" = "unreal". You can use these ideal "mentalations" for years and wind up in the looney bin. For me they have always been useless methods of thinking that you just learned something when in actuality they are designed to reinforce a construct by distracting your real force of logic. Saying "let's pretend" only produces fairy tales. I prefer reality.

But regardless, I think it is better to not make a mountain out of a mole hill and just leave it at that. You know, I still have full respect for @MH just for sticking it out with us OU crazies as well as you and just consider this whole quagmire a better proof of the effects of chemtrails. Maybe some chelation therapy would be in order. You guys both need to step out of the boxers ring and let those ring girls walk around a bit. Some quality time off would be great for all. Ding ding game over. hahahahaha

wattsup

[MileHigh]

Yes the game is really over and for me there are just two outstanding issues:

1.  Brad admits that he is wrong about my response to the harder question.
2.  Brad gets up the learning curve and understands the original question and then answers it correctly all by himself and clearly demonstrates that he understands what he is doing.

What's been going on for the past six years?  Even The Shadow can't answer that one.  I intentionally answered a more difficult question in order to leave the original question up for discussion among the regulars.  Again, we are talking about a very simple circuit here consisting of a power source and one single solitary component.

For both Brad and Wattsup, I am not holding out much hope for either of you but there are always the high-odd payouts for the long shot bets.  You guys would be the winners, but nothing ventured nothing gained and no pain no gain.

MileHigh

[tinman]

Yes the game is really over and for me there are just two outstanding issues:




MileHigh

1.  Brad admits that he is wrong about my response to the harder question.

No,i will do no such thing,as your answers are wrong when an ideal coil/inductor,and an ideal voltage are used as per your description in your question.

2.  Brad gets up the learning curve and understands the original question and then answers it correctly all by himself and clearly demonstrates that he understands what he is doing.

Perhaps some learning of your own MH.
1-Please describe what an ideal inductor is.
2-Please describe what an ideal voltage is.

What's been going on for the past six years?  Even The Shadow can't answer that one.  I intentionally answered a more difficult question in order to leave the original question up for discussion among the regulars.  Again, we are talking about a very simple circuit here consisting of a power source and one single solitary component.

First of all,you are talking about a fictional power source,and a fictional component.
But that aside,you question clearly states-an !ideal! voltage across an !ideal! coil/inductor.
This is the question you asked,and that is what my answers refer to.

My answer to your original question stands-you cannot place an ideal voltage across an ideal inductor--or coil,as you have chosen to use.

As the inductor is ideal,there is no resistance,and so T is instant.
An ideal voltage of 3 volts placed across a resistance of 0 ohms results in an instant current with an infinite value,as there is no resistance to the flow of that current,nor is there a drop in value of you ideal voltage.

For both Brad and Wattsup, I am not holding out much hope for either of you but there are always the high-odd payouts for the long shot bets.  You guys would be the winners, but nothing ventured nothing gained and no pain no gain.

The more rubbish we get rid of-the likes you have tried to peddle in this post,the further man will go when dealing with truth's.

Shall i post some links to ideal inductors and ideal voltages MH,or are you able to do some research of your own.?.
Will you post the resistance value for an ideal inductor?.


Brad

[MileHigh]

Well like usual Brad you are saying stuff that is totally whackadoo and I am sure some of your friends around here are reading it and know that you are saying stuff that is totally whackadoo but so far none of them are saying anything about it.  That is a "sickness" you see on these forums.  If nothing happens then perhaps the usual will happen, a spoon feeding session from a guru.  But why always a spoon feeding session when you are living in the information age, and you can educate yourself if your friends refuse to help you?  For you spoon feeding is clearly not working.  Like I have said many times, you would not survive half a day on a real electronics forum.  You are getting the real deal from me about the easy question and the tough one that I answered, and all that you can do is obstinately refuse to try to do some critical thinking.

Here is the big exercise in critical thinking for you:  For the sake of argument and for your own benefit, assume that I am right and then take it from there.  Come up with an action plan and do something.