Joule Thief 101

[wattsup]

As the EE World Turns............... just for the fun of it let's play around.

Pushing it further, if you divide something by 1 you get that same thing. Now if you divide something by zero meaning nothing, you are not left with nothing because you still have that something. Your answer is nothing but you still have that something. If you divide it by 2, that something becomes two something halves. Dividing by nothing would mean doing nothing. The zero would mean, don't bother dividing this even though I am asking you to.

So we are taught that 10 / 0 = 0 when we should be taught to not even bother. So to make it more interesting some now say when you divide something by nothing you get infinity. WOW. So now we go from nothing to infinity. Were did that happen in our world. Where is there any infinity in our world. Why would you even want to consider infinity when even the number of brain cells in your grey matter are too finite to even hold that thought.

So first you need to justify what is this famous zero. Why is it equated to infinity. What use does it have besides implying you have zero money in your pocket or is it really you have infinite money in your pocket. Now that would be great would it not. He is so rich he is worth zero. Let's shed them bucks quick.

It's as if this ideal business is a right of passage. After we tell you how to think, this final test of illogical mind games will determine how willing you are to bypass your own god given powers of observation to abdicate it to our teachings and thus earn your position as an EE bread winner. This is more of a cult indoctrination where the leaders of the cult know that if this new mind can accept something as illogical as this ideal construct, even if this person fakes accepting it, he will learn to bow to our intellectual authority. If you learn to play the game, you will feed your family and serve our needs without objection. You will become our new toy and all you needed was zero.

But these ideas are only possible because your main actors are actually unknown to you. They are portrayed as mystical electrons and fields, they flow like Aladdin on his magic carpet. You are like the musician, once you have practiced the notes for however many years it takes, the music plays on its own and you just become the automated vector perceiving yourself as a master in full control.

Zero resistance in an ideal inductor does not provide the copper atoms the bonding strength to withstand infinite current. Oh I forgot, this is let's pretend.

wattsup

[tinman]

As the EE World Turns............... just for the fun of it let's play around.

Pushing it further, if you divide something by 1 you get that same thing. Now if you divide something by zero meaning nothing, you are not left with nothing because you still have that something. Your answer is nothing but you still have that something. If you divide it by 2, that something becomes two something halves. Dividing by nothing would mean doing nothing. The zero would mean, don't bother dividing this even though I am asking you to.

So to make it more interesting some now say when you divide something by nothing you get infinity. WOW. So now we go from nothing to infinity. Were did that happen in our world. Where is there any infinity in our world. Why would you even want to consider infinity when even the number of brain cells in your grey matter are too finite to even hold that thought.

So first you need to justify what is this famous zero. Why is it equated to infinity. What use does it have besides implying you have zero money in your pocket or is it really you have infinite money in your pocket. Now that would be great would it not. He is so rich he is worth zero. Let's shed them bucks quick.

It's as if this ideal business is a right of passage. After we tell you how to think, this final test of illogical mind games will determine how willing you are to bypass your own god given powers of observation to abdicate it to our teachings and thus earn your position as an EE bread winner. This is more of a cult indoctrination where the leaders of the cult know that if this new mind can accept something as illogical as this ideal construct, even if this person fakes accepting it, he will learn to bow to our intellectual authority. If you learn to play the game, you will feed your family and serve our needs without objection. You will become our new toy and all you needed was zero.

But these ideas are only possible because your main actors are actually unknown to you. They are portrayed as mystical electrons and fields, they flow like Aladdin on his magic carpet. You are like the musician, once you have practiced the notes for however many years it takes, the music plays on its own and you just become the automated vector perceiving yourself as a master in full control.

Zero resistance in an ideal inductor does not provide the copper atoms the bonding strength to withstand infinite current. Oh I forgot, this is let's pretend.

wattsup

So we are taught that 10 / 0 = 0 when we should be taught to not even bother.

If 0 is nothing,and we divide 10 by nothing,then we have not divided 10. So we are left with the full 10
Or,if we ask how many 0's are in 10,there there would be an infinite amount of 0's in 10 

The same could apply when you calculate the time constant for an inductor.
Tau=L/R. In an ideal inductor there is no R-->Tau=L/nothing-->Tau=L
So now,some how,our time constant has turned into inductance 

See,wasnt that hard to stop time 


Brad.

[MileHigh]

Yes,and normally the voltage across the coil would drop as current starts to flow--but you have an ideal voltage,and so it dose not drop.

You need to brush up on what an ideal coil is MH,and stop thinking in terms of real coils/inductors.

Brad

In both cases for the coil, real and ideal, the voltage across the coil is whatever the voltage is coming from the source, whether that be a real or ideal voltage source.  As current starts to flow, the voltage will be whatever the real or ideal source is imposing on the coil.  There will be no drop like you are suggesting.  The only drop would be from a real voltage source under load, and that has nothing to do with whether the coil is real or ideal.

It's not me that needs to brush up on anything, it's you that needs to understand how a coil works.  Once you achieve that, then hopefully you will be able to answer the question properly and demonstrate that you understand what is going on and can demonstrate competency.

[MileHigh]

If a simulator can simulate any real world circuit,why dose it crash when trying to simulate the operation of just an ideal inductor ?,why the need to add a series resistor to get the sim to run the simulation?
Why can you calculate the values and operation of your ideal inductor,and yet the sim crashes?.

Brad

Poynt has already explained this to you.  Do you really need for it to be explained to you a second time?  Playing the game of "missing" the first time something is stated and forcing it to be reposted again is just plain silly.

[MileHigh]

Zero resistance in an ideal inductor does not provide the copper atoms the bonding strength to withstand infinite current. Oh I forgot, this is let's pretend.

wattsup

Honestly, you should be embarrassed by the series of ridiculous comments you have been making.  "But the wire is not thick enough."  "But the coil is going to burn up."

Hey!  We are looking at a problem on paper.  The thickness of the wire and the supposed heat dissipation (none in an ideal coil) have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of discussion.  Nothing at all.  What are you even mentioning stuff like this for?  It's like you are a kid in kindergarten with a limited ability to conceptualize that has been plopped down into a grade five class and they are discussing fractions.  You only learn fractions in grade four, so you as the kid in kindergarten are lost.  Some kid says, "I want half of that dollar bill to buy candies and John and Robbie will split the other half for their piggy banks."  You are totally confused and you say, "But you how can you do that, there is only one dollar bill?"  Really, it's annoying to read the nonsense you post sometimes.  It contributes nothing to the discussion, it's like you're on another planet.

Here is the the solution to the divide by zero business:  In a real coil there is a resistance and therefore there is a formula to solve for how it behaves built around an exponential function.  In an ideal coil there is no resistance so the formula does not even apply.  There is no more exponential curve, period.  So you use the right formula to apply to the new circuit, it is as simple as that.

Why all of this discussion about infinite time constants and dividing by zero?  This is all about the mathematical construct of using limits.  What is the limit in the size of the time constant as the resistance approaches zero?  What is the limit in the way the current trace curves as the time constant approaches infinity?  What is the limit in the curvature of a circle as the radius approaches infinity?  This stuff is used every day in science and engineering and mathematics.  It's not a huge intellectual exercise to realize that the trace for the current becomes a straight line as the resistance approaches zero and the time constant approaches infinity.  More importantly, you use the equation that matches the circuit.  There is a different and much simpler equation when discussing ideal coils.