Joule Thief 101

[tinman]

I am not in the least bit lost and I am waiting for you to answer this question:

Let me ask you this: Is there any observable difference in the ideal voltage source from before the extra Joules are pumped in to after the extra Joules are pumped in?

From my point of view,the ideal source(voltage source) would have an infinite amount of stored energy,and so there would be no point in pumping any more energy in there. From your point of view,any energy that is pumped into the ideal voltage source is just gone-vanished without a trace.
There for,in both cases,there is no point in pumping any more energy into the ideal voltage source.

Poynt has confirmed that any energy absorbed by the ideal voltage source,and where we have all agreed that ideal source dose not dissipate energy,then the energy is stored in the ideal voltage source,and there for , dose not just disappear as you say.

I dont think that statement of you saying--the energy is just gone,did you many favors MH,as it was quite stupid. Im sure you know that energy just dose not disappear,so i am lost as to why you would say such a thing.

Brad

[MileHigh]

When discussing an ideal voltage source, the concept of "an infinite amount of 'stored' energy" is meaningless.  I say the energy is "gone" because you can simply forget about it.  Saying it is "absorbed" is just about the same thing as saying it "disappears."  And ideal voltage source is just an abstraction, so the concept of it absorbing energy or storing energy or even making energy disappear is really meaningless.  It just does what it does, and can output an infinite amount of energy, or you can pump an infinite amount of energy into it, it doesn't make a damn difference in the world.  In that sense, the law of the conservation of energy doesn't even apply to an ideal voltage source and you can say that energy you pump into it is "destroyed" if you want to, it doesn't make a damn difference in the world.  It's really a brain-bender for you, isn't it?

[tinman]

When discussing an ideal voltage source, the concept of "an infinite amount of 'stored' energy" is meaningless.  I say the energy is "gone" because you can simply forget about it.  Saying it is "absorbed" is just about the same thing as saying it "disappears."  And ideal voltage source is just an abstraction, so the concept of it absorbing energy or storing energy or even making energy disappear is really meaningless.  It just does what it does, and can output an infinite amount of energy, or you can pump an infinite amount of energy into it, it doesn't make a damn difference in the world.  In that sense, the law of the conservation of energy doesn't even apply to an ideal voltage source and you can say that energy you pump into it is "destroyed" if you want to, it doesn't make a damn difference in the world.  It's really a brain-bender for you, isn't it?

Trying to imagine an infinite amount of anything,is like trying to imagine how large the actual universe is-and were not talking about the !known! universe.
Dose it have an end?,is it just a large dome?,or dose it go on indefinitely?

But just because it has an infinite value,dose not mean you can destroy energy,just the same as you cant make a small part of the universe disappear. The energy being transferred from the coil to the source,is added to that infinite amount-from which it came. Your just sloshing energy back and forth--nothing gained ,nothing lost.


Brad

[MileHigh]

Trying to imagine an infinite amount of anything,is like trying to imagine how large the actual universe is-and were not talking about the !known! universe.
Dose it have an end?,is it just a large dome?,or dose it go on indefinitely?

But just because it has an infinite value,dose not mean you can destroy energy,just the same as you cant make a small part of the universe disappear. The energy being transferred from the coil to the source,is added to that infinite amount-from which it came. Your just sloshing energy back and forth--nothing gained ,nothing lost.

Brad

I told you that an ideal voltage source has nothing to do with the conservation of energy.  Supposing there was a DC outlet in your house that came from the electric utility.  Supposing that it was seven volts DC.  Let's say that you can consider that DC outlet from the electric utility to be an ideal voltage source.  Imagine it's very dangerous and there is not even a fuse associated with the source, and the two wires that bring the DC to your house are five inches in diameter.  It's so dangerous that if you put a 1" x 1" rectangular bus bar across the source that it would instantly explode and become vaporized metal.

So what if you bought a brand new big beefy car battery and connected it to the seven-volt ideal voltage source and went away for one day?  When you returned the next day the brand new battery would be dead, and probably ruined.

So on the first day you had a brand new battery with who knows how many mega Joules stored in it.  The next day the battery is dead and has no Joules in it.

Where did the energy go?

The answer is for all practical intents and purposes the energy disappeared.

You don't care what's behind the seven-volt DC ideal voltage source provided by the utility company.  As far as you are concerned the DC outlet in your wall and the utility company are just a black box.

So who is the person that is really lost?  Who is the person that sometimes has no imagination, or sometimes imagines all sorts of things that make no sense like on the other thread?

Sorry, but you are going to have to eat your words.  You were lost, and you still are lost.  You still haven't demonstrated that you understand the simple circuit from start to finish, and you are still stuck on another false notion.  You still haven't met the two simple goals that I stated, and the hope is still that you will reach those goals.

If you want to take a sobering look at yourself, go and read your technical arguments from the beginning of the question thread and see how ridiculous they are and see how far you have come.

The worst thing that could have been done would have been to give you the answer to the first question at the start of the question thread, and you asked for it repeatedly.  For the technical issues being discussed in the question thread, I have probably covered them forty to fifty times over the past six years.  You were reading me then so what the hell were you doing?  Were you asleep and just ignored what I said, did it all pass right through you like you weren't even there, or did you mutter an arrogant chuckle to yourself because "you knew better?"

You got into the discussion here with me, and you started the brand new question thread, being completely and utterly clueless about inductors, essentially in the very same boat as Wattsup and EMJunkie.  Yet you have been playing with coils for six years.  Let's hope that in the end you achieve the two goals that I stated for you.  That would be a great thing.

MileHigh

[partzman]

In the case of an ideal voltage source, it is evident that it can source an infinite amount of energy to an ideal inductor for an infinite amount of time. Does it not make sense that it should also be capable of sinking an infinite amount of energy from an ideal inductor for an infinite amount of time?  If not, why?

partzman