Joule Thief 101

[sm0ky2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvJAgrUBF4w

Look!  Resonance and quantum entanglement!  The Illuminati!  Building 7!  Roswell!  All there if you just look!   

care to enlighten us on your thoughts about this?
What do you suppose is the resonant frequency of that metal plate?
and how does that pertain to the different patterns that emerge at different frequencies?

I feel like saying something here, but I think I already did about 15 pages back.....

[sm0ky2]

Here,
get a Mile High, and learn about this guy.
Hell, i'll smoke one with ya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Young_(scientist)

this, I think is an important topic for our entire civilization.
We KNEW this stuff 200 years ago.
yet now it seems forgotten by most.
I blame our segregated educational system.
splitting of the knowledge into job-specific categories, for monetary gain.
a dumbing down of our society on a grand level......

I would like to point out here, that a variation of Young's Modulus, is still to this day used in determining BOTH
the natural resonant frequency of the glass material
AND
the self resonant frequency of the ferrite material in a torroid (that number you get from the manufacturer)

[tinman]

 author=MileHigh link=topic=8341.msg476619#msg476619 date=1457371820]

Resonant anything?  Somebody post or link to something that is supposedly "outside the box" and is supposedly "more efficient" and let's take an honest look at it.

Are you serious MH
How about the biggest one of them all ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_coil
Let me guess,the Tesla coil is not !outside! the MH box-right?-->and why?,because it has been around for some time ,and a true show of how resonance makes things work so well,and without resonance,this would be nothing much at all.

Go ahead, link or post something that shows something remarkable about resonance.   Anybody?

The issue of a "resonant Joule Thief" is not a "given" that you just have to "find" like some people want you to believe. 

MileHigh
[/quote]

Learn about what resonance truly is as a first step at least.

Quote wikipedia: In physics, resonance is a phenomenon that occurs when a vibrating system or external force drives another system to oscillate with greater amplitude at a specific preferential frequency.

Quote physicsclassroom.com: resonance - when one object vibrating at the same natural frequency of a second object forces that second object into vibrational motion.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/sound/reson.html --Quote:
Resonance
In sound applications, a resonant frequency is a natural frequency of vibration determined by the physical parameters of the vibrating object. This same basic idea of physically determined natural frequencies applies throughout physics in mechanics, electricity and magnetism, and even throughout the realm of modern physics. Some of the implications of resonant frequencies are:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/A-level_Physics_(Advancing_Physics)/Resonance Quote:
Resonance occurs when an oscillating system is driven (made to oscillate from an outside source) at a frequency which is the same as its own natural frequency. All oscillating systems require some form of an elastic force and a mass e.g. a mass at the end of a spring. All oscillators have a natural frequency. If you have a mass on a spring, and give it an amplitude, it will resonate at a frequency:

We could also see resonance as a way of storing and giving back energy, by way of vibrations and/or oscillations at high efficiency's,much like in some boost converters.
As we know,once we have a resonant situation between the exhaust flow and piston movement/position in a two stroke ICE,the efficiency of that engine can greatly increase--> (simplified explanation). In the case of the ICE resonance,the energy is not being stored,but due to the resonant factor,the energy conversion is at a much higher efficiency.
Resonance is really nothing more than a vibration or oscillation of a system at it's natural frequency.

What determines the resonant frequency of a wine glass?

Both the physical and chemical makeup of the wine glass is what determines what the resonant (natural) frequency will be for that wine glass.

How is the resonant frequency determined for the wine glass.
The only true way of determining the actual resonant(natural) frequency of the wine glass,is to measure it. This !CAN! be done with a microphone and scope.

Take a look at the example of the "resonant Joule Thief."  Right now it is just an idea, no more than that.  It's doesn't even exist and the improved performance attributes that are almost literally claimed about it as fact are no more than hopes and wishes.

This may be the case for the MH JT circuit,but in other kinds of JT circuit's,resonance could indeed increase the efficiency of the system. My line of thought in regards to this,is by way of an electrodynamic induction system--or resonant inductive coupling if you like.
You need to stop thinking that the MH JT circuit is the only JT circuit MH. A JT circuit is a circuit that can drain (what would otherwise be wasted)the remaining energy from !almost! dead batteries.
The idea behind the resonance thing,is to do this at a greater efficiency--more light,less waste heat.

However, this thread was stating that it was taken for granted that a "resonant Joule thief" was doable and it was just a question of "finding it."  At this point in time it's just a hope, and the alleged improved performance is just a hope.  I am all for hope, but when it comes to electronics, rational analysis comes first and hope second.

Apparently rational analysis comes in 4 to 8 weeks

"Resonant Joule Thief?"  Bring it on we are all waiting for it but wise people will be taking nothing as a given just because you have the word "resonance" in the description.

4 to 8 weeks before any of us know what resonance is
what determines the resonant frequency of a wine glass
And how we are going to determine that resonant frequency.

Moving on, we will see if the boys can master the concept of the resonating wine glass.  If not, the answers will be given later.

All the answers have been provided MH--so dont worry to much about your long winded(yet to work out) resonant answers.

Then that's it, there is no point in taking it any further than that.   Just don't be surprised if you never see a resonant Joule Thief and you never see anything described or linked to that shows something remarkable or outside-the-box with respect to resonance.  If that's the case, then people need to ask themselves why all of this buzz about resonance?  What you will see through, is the two questions about the wine glass answered.

In 4 to 8 week's.

I have put any attempts to educate or help others way back on the back back burner.

Maybe they will thank people like myself,Mag's,and smOKy for keeping you away from them MH ?

This thread is an exception and I have no problem simply walking away at the right time.

Oh-MH,,,please dont make any exceptions on our behalf
Please---feel free to walk away any time you want --->we got this one


Brad

[tinman]

Here,
get a Mile High, and learn about this guy.
Hell, i'll smoke one with ya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Young_(scientist)

this, I think is an important topic for our entire civilization.
We KNEW this stuff 200 years ago.
yet now it seems forgotten by most.
I blame our segregated educational system.
splitting of the knowledge into job-specific categories, for monetary gain.
a dumbing down of our society on a grand level......

I would like to point out here, that a variation of Young's Modulus, is still to this day used in determining BOTH
the natural resonant frequency of the glass material
AND
the self resonant frequency of the ferrite material in a torroid (that number you get from the manufacturer)

HA-whats the chances of that . MH will not be happy

Young's Modulus allowed, for the first time, prediction of the strain in a component subject to a known stress (and vice versa). Prior to Young's contribution, engineers were required to apply Hooke's F = kx relationship to identify the deformation (x) of a body subject to a known load (F), where the constant (k) is a function of both the geometry and material under consideration. Finding k required physical testing for any new component, as the F = kx relationship is a function of both geometry and material.


Brad

[MileHigh]

Answer these two questions in your own words:

How does a wine glass resonate, what is the mechanism?
How is the resonant frequency of a wine glass determined?

If you can't do it then you don't know what you are talking about.