Ultracaps tested for excess energy

[WilbyInebriated]

Paul is posting his results to discuss them with others and exchange ideas, which is what this place is all about.

Do you have something to say about Paul's test Bill and Wilby?  If yes please post and we can discuss it.

MileHigh

unlike you, i do not arbitrarily invent hypotheses... i will withhold my opinion until i can test it myself.

[gadgetmall]

The proof of excess can only be proven beyond doubt to be useful  by using one charged cap and transfer charge to others ..then back to the original
It sounds simple but we have to remove thermal loss.

The measurements look fantastic but they must be of practical use.
We know so little about the limits of our theory

What ever you do, start with one charged cap

Nice to see you have opened up Paul


Great work

That is what i said . In Experiment 2 I used ONLY BCAPS . one for the run and one for charge . In each case i used a lower run bcap than the Charge Bcap . My first result was this . Start with a bcap run @ 2.4 volts  charge B cap @ 2.0 volts . End of run Charge Bcap 2.5 volts , Swap Now Run bcap is 2.5 volts Charge Bcap ia . 1.988 volts . End of that swap charge cap is 2.581 volts swap . run cap is now 2.581 . SO what should this little experiment i ran over 5 times and Charge Bcap is ALWAYS higher that RUN BCAP >1 It work like this with a battery as the run . Voltage is proportional with Amps in the BCap there for MUCH WORK can be DONE with the charged Bcap Than the AA battery . Will this ever sink in to the non believers? . NO . who cars? Nobody . Why ? Because they don't have one . this is the only reason . And no I can't sell you one . they are gone . I have two cases and they are for Me Alon .Except the ones I GAVE away to the group tech supporters .


Keep testing Paul . And if you have the time hook it up to a 1 volt battery like i am and see if My  O U Statement is Valid or not . I know it is  and Stephen will see one . Also Dr Stiffler noted the Energy Gain as well . Energy gain  ou same thing  >1= Over Unity

yall Have a good  here !
Gadget

[gadgetmall]

Yo Paul,

I don´t see any solid data to support OU claims in this area yet, do you?

Maybe the whole boost cap thing is just an advertisement to sell caps.

I have vouched $500 toward the OU prize money, at the moment I think my money is safe lol. Of course nothing would please me more than to see Stefan validate GMs bodacious claim.

With regard to your RC timings indicating varying capacitance, I agree you need to use higher constant charging currents and also over a wider voltage range from say 0.5V to 2V. Also use a stout 10 ohm resistor to time the discharge over a data logger or slowtimebase DSO to audit the caps energy.

If, (and thats a big if), any magic is happening then I suspect short sharp pulse charging might encourage it.

! Yacca . Your SOL ! . I don't have anymore to sell and i also don't bluff . !If you want one then you will have to buy from the manufacture now . currently they are 87 dollars from Maxwells Distributor + freight and Hazmat fees . Give me a Break Yaccu . It is a BOLD claim i made I agree but i will do My best  to back Up My claim Sir . Visual proof is something no one can deny and that i will present as i have for free here on the Ou forum .
You all see the numbers from Pl and he did not Believe either + he didn't get his cap from me .

Edit ### Had My brother contact cusdn the Ebay guy . we wanted to buy 20 from him as i paid 50 for mine . He told My brother that there are only a couple left and he don't have that many ..they will not be getting anymore either .

PS .. I do not work for Maxwell (I don't work at all) Nor will i sell anymore caps . This is it and i Don't know  how long before Maxwell gets bought out By big brother because of the findings here . Unfortunately only the ones you will buy now will help you with a home generator  . That what i care about . Self reliance . I Don't care about BIG Steam powered Generator Plants  supplying power to all the homes . I want all the homes to power themselves and be free from conglomerate interference . The ones with a few case of these will have that chance.  . Imagine replacing Solar Storage batteries or Electric cars constantly being Charged while they run .. This is my big picture
The little picture is a self runner producing 1 watt . Bigger picture will be ,well much bigger .

[PaulLowrance]

Paul:

I looked at the ADC0809.  Is it set up to convert from 0 to 5 volts or did you change the Vref+ and possibly the Vref-?  For the sake of argument let's assume assume that the A/D converter sweeps from 0 to 5 volts.  5/256 = 19.5 millivolts per digital step.  In addition, the A/D error is +/- one least-significant bit.

The numbers above don't add up so did you change the A/D sweep range?

Here is my main point:  The accuracy of the A/D conversion depends on the programmable A/D sweep range and the fact that the built-in ADC error is +/- one least-significant bit.  Then this has to be related back to your very small delta-V which is typically 10 millivolts.

It is possible that your ability to measure a 10 milivolt change with the ADC0809 is +/-3% or +/-40%, it all depends on the ADC sweep range and the size of the delta-V you are trying to measure.  Can you clarify this issue?

Just the inherent inaccuracy in your ability to measure a 10 millivolt change in voltage ADC0809 can explain your fluctuations in capacitor value calculations.

What about your current source?  Are you using a bench power supply in current source mode and running that through a multimeter on current measurement?  What is your error margin here?

I am just trying to understand your measurement setup.

MileHigh

Hi,

As stated, I have not used the ADC method yet. All  previous measurements were taken on a voltage meter that had 0.1mV resolution, with the exception of the unpublished discharge measurements, which had 1uV (0.001mV) resolution using my Keithley.

Vref for the ADC0809 will be set close to 0.3 volts, not 5 volts. I don't know how well that will work out. We'll have to see during the calibration tests.

Paul

[PaulLowrance]

Paul:

The above example is a hypothetical example and not from your data.

You are wrong here.  If the capacitance of the capacitor is dynamic and can somehow change with respect to time (to be determined what the speculated change mechanism is) then this will not be indicative of an increase in stored energy.

How can you say I'm wrong, then followed by an "If".  You have taken my example way out of context. It was an example consisting of one value for capacitance. What did you want? You wanted my example be like "At v=0.204V C=549F, @ v=2.10V C=548.5F, etc. etc" ?  Either way the example demonstrates the point.

The reason for data logging is to obtain detailed information about the ultracap over the entire voltage range during a charge and then discharge.

Yucca made the following statement wherein lies the answer:

There is no mechanism in the experiment for there to be any excess charge.  You have complete control over the amount of charge stored in the capacitor with your timed current source.

If the capacitance of the setup is indeed dynamic with respect to time and increases, then this increasing capacitance will cause a decrease in the voltage across the capacitor.  Your example above is incorrect, the voltage will NOT remain at 1 volts if somehow the capacitance increases tenfold.  The voltage will simply decrease so that the amount of energy in the capacitor remains the same.  This test looks like a dead-end to me.

I will repeat my challenge to everyone again:  Try to suggest an alternative method for the apparent increase in measured capacitance in Paul's data.

MileHigh

I've addressed dynamic capacitance. Again, the issue is simply a lack of data. We still need to see how the ultracap handles discharges.


Paul