STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[PaulLowrance]

This post is not to show something that works, but rather to save people time by showing something that does not work. ~ last week I did some quick FEMM sims that showed cop>1, but did not take the time to do the Lua scripts to see for certain. After spending a week to build both the circuit & core I decided late last night to program the Lua script, because I was bored, to see if it really was cop>1. It's not, and here are the Lua scrip results,

--> Total consumed energy (J), Coil current 1 (A), Coil current 2 (A)
--> step 1
--> 0         0         0
--> 3.590518268139885e-006         0.01         0
--> 1.076837942257538e-005         0.02         0
--> 2.152567246223528e-005         0.03         0
--> 3.584987867452422e-005         0.04         0
--> 5.372477637093366e-005         0.05         0
--> 7.513137102932926e-005         0.06000000000000001         0
--> 0.0001000484567827349         0.07000000000000001         0
--> 0.0001284448334048866         0.08         0
--> 0.0001602705060022498         0.09         0
--> 0.0001954735644334508         0.09999999999999999         0
--> 0.0002340151264260043         0.11         0
--> 0.0002759037939155955         0.12         0
--> 0.000321184071531347         0.13         0
--> 0.0003699087571811861         0.14         0
--> 0.0004219585325872816         0.15         0
--> 0.0004768278325109655         0.16         0
--> 0.0005341002916773089         0.17         0
--> 0.0005935602750380198         0.18         0
--> 0.0006550542806126579         0.19         0
--> 0.0007183996895438364         0.2         0
--> 0.0007833678029607461         0.2100000000000001         0
--> 0.000849638268451597         0.2200000000000001         0
--> 0.000916856125808165         0.2300000000000001         0
--> 0.0009847808006294551         0.2400000000000001         0
--> 0.00105325813153989         0.2500000000000001         0
--> 0.001122061956599947         0.2600000000000001         0
--> 0.001191241765222169         0.2700000000000001         0
--> 0.001261180004139531         0.2800000000000001         0
--> 0.001332231676934107         0.2900000000000001         0
--> 0.001404621309551199         0.3000000000000001         0
--> 0.001478619406449006         0.3100000000000001         0
--> 0.001554832704586756         0.3200000000000001         0
--> 0.001633765584116694         0.3300000000000001         0
--> 0.001715480799122064         0.3400000000000001         0
--> 0.001800204919809737         0.3500000000000001         0
--> 0.001888760814127765         0.3600000000000002         0
--> 0.001981598461762843         0.3700000000000002         0
--> 0.002077719403497345         0.3800000000000002         0
--> 0.002175525771451832         0.3900000000000002         0
--> 0.002274293779069949         0.4000000000000002         0
--> 0.002373345530365636         0.4100000000000002         0
--> 0.00247124175808541         0.4200000000000002         0
--> 0.002565131284507889         0.4300000000000002         0
--> 0.002652725622921517         0.4400000000000002         0
--> 0.002733185015652727         0.4500000000000002         0
--> 0.002806758949279388         0.4600000000000002         0
--> 0.002874244030497155         0.4700000000000003         0
--> 0.002936528397946332         0.4800000000000003         0
--> 0.002994408155516128         0.4900000000000003         0
--> 0.003048561354976262         0.5         0
--> step 2
--> 0.003048561354976262         0.5         0
--> 0.003048218629603371         0.5         0.01
--> 0.003046901440529685         0.5         0.02
--> 0.003044600820428306         0.5         0.03
--> 0.00304130623557009         0.5         0.04
--> 0.003037007371840049         0.5         0.05
--> 0.003031692241737806         0.5         0.06000000000000001
--> 0.003025347949716552         0.5         0.07000000000000001
--> 0.003017953642556685         0.5         0.08
--> 0.003009485060872289         0.5         0.09
--> 0.002999937982725136         0.5         0.09999999999999999
--> 0.002989352491663576         0.5         0.11
--> 0.002977823784415115         0.5         0.12
--> 0.002965492795874145         0.5         0.13
--> 0.002952522235045185         0.5         0.14
--> 0.002939048984884102         0.5         0.15
--> 0.002925180703014064         0.5         0.16
--> 0.002910961960634052         0.5         0.17
--> 0.002896439339640948         0.5         0.18
--> 0.00288169003178506         0.5         0.19
--> 0.002866773995889459         0.5         0.2
--> 0.002851705835364595         0.5         0.2100000000000001
--> 0.002836496801753753         0.5         0.2200000000000001
--> 0.002821199139422801         0.5         0.2300000000000001
--> 0.002805914323231121         0.5         0.2400000000000001
--> 0.002790763022889252         0.5         0.2500000000000001
--> 0.002775826338041654         0.5         0.2600000000000001
--> 0.00276111730090713         0.5         0.2700000000000001
--> 0.002746614108469888         0.5         0.2800000000000001
--> 0.002732313346180004         0.5         0.2900000000000001
--> 0.002718231628920937         0.5         0.3000000000000001
--> 0.002704363354715092         0.5         0.3100000000000001
--> 0.002690669446889235         0.5         0.3200000000000001
--> 0.002677107131100328         0.5         0.3300000000000001
--> 0.002663630841766805         0.5         0.3400000000000001
--> 0.002650199186249004         0.5         0.3500000000000001
--> 0.002636790066656773         0.5         0.3600000000000002
--> 0.002623420339089672         0.5         0.3700000000000002
--> 0.002610145485391276         0.5         0.3800000000000002
--> 0.002597003431649619         0.5         0.3900000000000002
--> 0.002583969040181575         0.5         0.4000000000000002
--> 0.002570996225486628         0.5         0.4100000000000002
--> 0.002558050223878575         0.5         0.4200000000000002
--> 0.002545122719095612         0.5         0.4300000000000002
--> 0.002532227943781941         0.5         0.4400000000000002
--> 0.002519386648339695         0.5         0.4500000000000002
--> 0.002506611787103072         0.5         0.4600000000000002
--> 0.00249390789050716         0.5         0.4700000000000003
--> 0.002481275147127483         0.5         0.4800000000000003
--> 0.002468719057056149         0.5         0.4900000000000003
--> 0.002456259951179949         0.5         0.5
--> step 3
--> 0.002456259951179949         0.5         0.5
--> 0.002405462256831358         0.49         0.5
--> 0.002355458742805151         0.48         0.5
--> 0.002306435459827746         0.47         0.5
--> 0.00225867187622482         0.46         0.5
--> 0.002212246444778617         0.45         0.5
--> 0.002167137324896208         0.44         0.5
--> 0.002123287509743938         0.4299999999999999         0.5
--> 0.002080836940309113         0.4199999999999999         0.5
--> 0.00203992480474895         0.4099999999999999         0.5
--> 0.002000456592122689         0.3999999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001962367090143027         0.3899999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001925655869627818         0.3799999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001890374627222772         0.3699999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001856565265365677         0.3599999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001824232824152449         0.3499999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001793384383106103         0.3399999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001764030085054732         0.3299999999999999         0.5
--> 0.001736181959917234         0.3199999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001709854903110935         0.3099999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001685060199176545         0.2999999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001661798506485324         0.2899999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001640058697866304         0.2799999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001619820371196059         0.2699999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001601055982328429         0.2599999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001583726202893427         0.2499999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001567776037983496         0.2399999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001553137170970112         0.2299999999999998         0.5
--> 0.001539726281140034         0.2199999999999998         0.5
--> 0.00152743766576684         0.2099999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001516142172791192         0.1999999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001505685023380846         0.1899999999999997         0.5
--> 0.00149589724165913         0.1799999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001486584960608024         0.1699999999999997         0.5
--> 0.0014775084141841         0.1599999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001468279859006976         0.1499999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001458256342652655         0.1399999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001446958857792624         0.1299999999999997         0.5
--> 0.00143401817733061         0.1199999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001419219477244737         0.1099999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001402793386219292         0.09999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001386012833198309         0.08999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001370035808036354         0.0799999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001354984793985183         0.0699999999999997         0.5
--> 0.00134122842197862         0.0599999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001329225704211848         0.0499999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001319351584153604         0.0399999999999997         0.5
--> 0.001312153481479498         0.02999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001307570024923967         0.01999999999999969         0.5
--> 0.001305280879241024         0.009999999999999691         0.5
--> 0.001305148774201166         0         0.5
--> step 4
--> 0.001305148774201166         0         0.5
--> 0.001267742420501036         0         0.49
--> 0.001230923166354812         0         0.48
--> 0.00119461638395876         0         0.47
--> 0.001158801850304672         0         0.46
--> 0.001123467244598066         0         0.45
--> 0.001088541848132292         0         0.44
--> 0.001053931269367919         0         0.4299999999999999
--> 0.001019553489462221         0         0.4199999999999999
--> 0.000985346153571138         0         0.4099999999999999
--> 0.00095128181858739         0         0.3999999999999999
--> 0.000917377609581669         0         0.3899999999999999
--> 0.0008836659869532686         0         0.3799999999999999
--> 0.0008501686788609103         0         0.3699999999999999
--> 0.000816912931046265         0         0.3599999999999999
--> 0.0007839494747557624         0         0.3499999999999999
--> 0.0007513532915734927         0         0.3399999999999999
--> 0.0007192098442373292         0         0.3299999999999999
--> 0.0006876087765101703         0         0.3199999999999998
--> 0.0006566193770842923         0         0.3099999999999998
--> 0.0006262972666842203         0         0.2999999999999998
--> 0.0005966933430658843         0         0.2899999999999998
--> 0.0005678464793179263         0         0.2799999999999998
--> 0.0005397899646925705         0         0.2699999999999998
--> 0.0005125528112680772         0         0.2599999999999998
--> 0.0004861627894751369         0         0.2499999999999998
--> 0.0004606545671803507         0         0.2399999999999998
--> 0.0004360886626383941         0         0.2299999999999998
--> 0.0004125512218290568         0         0.2199999999999998
--> 0.0003900737167018608         0         0.2099999999999997
--> 0.0003686461901923401         0         0.1999999999999997
--> 0.0003482625063669396         0         0.1899999999999997
--> 0.0003289193556166073         0         0.1799999999999997
--> 0.0003106147072878994         0         0.1699999999999997
--> 0.0002933473656752264         0         0.1599999999999997
--> 0.0002771203982077093         0         0.1499999999999997
--> 0.0002619406503524264         0         0.1399999999999997
--> 0.0002478149567788555         0         0.1299999999999997
--> 0.0002347503437721159         0         0.1199999999999997
--> 0.0002227540353909843         0         0.1099999999999997
--> 0.0002118324471779473         0         0.09999999999999969
--> 0.0002019900535321696         0         0.08999999999999969
--> 0.0001932305427804945         0         0.0799999999999997
--> 0.000185557393292687         0         0.0699999999999997
--> 0.000178973818975171         0         0.0599999999999997
--> 0.0001734827006454447         0         0.0499999999999997
--> 0.0001690865569702568         0         0.0399999999999997
--> 0.0001657874929460887         0         0.02999999999999969
--> 0.0001635871365176567         0         0.01999999999999969
--> 0.0001624866310459695         0         0.009999999999999691
--> 0.0001624866310459695         0         0


Basically there are two coils, inner & outer. Both outer coils are one. AC current going through coil 1 will *not* produce AC in coil 2. Same thing goes for the opposite. What this design is about is having coil 2 change the effective permeability of the entire core, which will effect coil 1. So you could think of this as modulated AM broadcasting where one changes the amplitude of the other, but the modulator by itself cannot induce AC without the signal.

In step 1 coil 1 is turned on and left on. step 2 coil 2 is turned on. step 3 coil 1 is turned off thereby collecting its energy. step 4 coil 2 is turned off and energy is collected.

Back to the drawing board.

[broli]

PL, I have no clue what you are demonstrating there. But what I was trying to show with the previous circuits was that the orbo can be much more efficient than it currently is. If Steorn claims it's already cop=2 for instance then imagine how much more effecieint it could be if you recycled the inductive energy during the on period.

But even that is unsure since I do not have the equipment to verify this myself. Perhaps I'm all wrong, and the long current maximum is needed. But if it isn't then a lot of electrical energy is waisted by letting the current surf the ohmic limit for quite a time period based on their scope. It would be much more efficient to let all the action happen when the current rise time is still linear. And just when it hits saturation point you open the switches so that the energy flows back to the battery.

Without a decent oscilloscope determining all these parameters can be near impossible.

[PaulLowrance]

Sean has said repeatedly that the orbo over unity is clearly predicted using classical physics, which is what FEMM uses. For myself, it's best to see something work using FEMM before spending the time & $ to build it.

[gravityblock]

PL,

This may be a good read for you and others here about the various flux “threading” methods wherein newly created flux lines become “engaged” by the magnetic core without violating Ampere’s Circuital Law.

This improved flux model enables transformer theory to be modeled using the Classical Motional Electric Law (CMEL) ( emf = (v × B ) • L ) as well as Faraday’s Law and New Induction. In fact, it is shown that Faraday’s Law is just a special case of the CMEL and not a stand alone model of nature.

http://www.distinti.com/docs/classfluxan.pdf

GB

[IceStorm]

So, according to you, you can take a coil and use it as an electromagnet without it draining the battery?  I don't think so, lol.  We're not talking about transformers here.  These are two different things we're talking about.

The motor in my example where the coil is continuously energized from the battery is our control experiment to let us know how long the battery can maintain the system at a certain RPM with a continuous output from the battery.

I guarantee you that it takes energy to run a conventional motor at idle speed with no external load on it that is greater than the small loss due to the resistance of the wire.  Even when it's at idle speed, it is converting electrical energy into mechanical energy and this mechanical energy produces a CEMF that is against the EMF driving the motor and this increases the amount of energy that is consumed way above the small losses due to the resistance of the wire.


GB

Im tired a bit to repeat because you don't know enough in electronic and you don't seem to want to put some time to learn something. I told you that with a Ideal inductor , if you put a sine wave across it , the battery in a perfect world will get back what it put in , its not mysterious , its classical EE. IN real world there loss . I told you too that a rotoverter was a good example about a no load motor, do a simple search, there people who run motor at full idle speed (NO LOAD, I REPEAT, NO LOAD) for only 15/20 Watt with a simple modification to get more VARS, do you know what is VARS ??. A motor with no LOAD don't show ANYTHING about how much torque it has VS power consumption , you need a load at it shaft.

Look again at this site, its in the middle of the page, http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html there a PERFECT example of what i told you yesterday you will see what happen with a pure inductive load(ideal one) ALL GET BACK.

Best Regards,
IceStorm