STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[Omnibus]

Here's another piece of info I'd like to share with you. I've shown for convenience the schematics of the transformer in question. So, OU is observed only when the signal from the pulse generator is applied to the Blue and the Green terminal. Applying power to the Black and Blue or the Black and Green terminal yields severe underunity. Wouldn't the Black-Blue or the Black-Green part of the primary coil also have capacitance, although less than the Blue-Green and, therefore, if the capacitance were responsible for the OU, observe OU when connecting to these terminals as well?

[infringer]

LarryC while I appreciate your wit I would like if we could get along without saying that onimbus is trying to "Mislead" people a lack of understanding does not mean that someones intentions are to mislead people I would hate to see this thread erupt into flamboyance and fall off if anything keep explaining why this don't work if it is your goal to teach be a teacher not an accuser .... Many lessons will be learned if we realize that not everyone is as far into the the knowledge of as others are I think that your corrections have a point but let use keep the arguments simple and professional no name calling or calling people out cause then the arguments you make start to lose merit for those who are not nearly as educated and they will indeed think you are suppressing rather then trying to aid.

Onimbus you may be right let LarryC's arguments drive you to proof of or not. Either way LarryC feels he is trying to mentor you so let him do it provide him with as many arguments you can and take his advice in stride but do not give up on the prize and proving the prize until you are sure you are infact incorrect a defeat here would be worth just as much as a win you will gain knowledge of OU or understand much more of how to prove it if you find it!

Lets touch gloves I want a nice clean match!

[broli]

Here's another piece of info I'd like to share with you. I've shown for convenience the schematics of the transformer in question. So, OU is observed only when the signal from the pulse generator is applied to the Blue and the Green terminal. Applying power to the Black and Blue or the Black and Green terminal yields severe underunity. Wouldn't the Black-Blue or the Black-Green part of the primary coil also have capacitance, although less than the Blue-Green and, therefore, if the capacitance were responsible for the OU, observe OU when connecting to these terminals as well?

If you have an L meter could you please measure the inductance between these points.

[exnihiloest]

Exnihiloest, you do have a valid hypothesis here. Some work is needed to align the domains and it will show up as increased intake from the power supply, so the I^2Rc will not reflect true power dissipated. However, and you must be knowing this, the domains re-align automatically and release the energy (as CEMF), which again dissipates in Rc, so over time all energy, whether direct heating of Rc or domain movement, turns up as heat.
I think that this heat is mostly in I^2Rc, I don't know any better. If you know some research papers etc that study the energy transfer in coils, please point us to them. How much do you think the R of domain alignment is ? Is it much bigger than Rc or tiny ? Anyone knows

Hi Omega_0
The magnetic domains align along the resultant of both the fields of the coil and the moving magnet.
Thus the impulse in the coil tends to align the magnetic domains against the direction that the moving magnet would impose.
At the start of the impulse, the moving magnet is at its closest position from the coil.
At the end of the pulse, the magnet has moved away.
Therefore more work is needed at the start (provided by the coil) than at the end (restored by the magnet).

The difference is not much but enough to run the motor. We must reckon that Steorn motor is using very low friction bearings, in order to be able to exploit such a tiny difference. This explains why almost all energy is wasted in heating and why it is difficult to distinguish the useful work (imho it can be less than 1%).

If the R_domain is in parallel with Rc, then we have real problem, if it appears in series then OU is underestimated and is no problem. I don't know which case holds true here.

Please see http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Transformer_equivalent_circuit.svg
It is the equivalent circuit of a real transformer. By just removing Rs/Xs and the secundary coil, we are left with an equivalent circuit of a real saturable inductor.
We can see Rc, the coil loss resistance. Attention: in this schematic, Rc is the coil loss resistance, NOT the coil resistance which is Rp. "Loss" means any energy apparently wasted in the core when viewed from the generator, i.e. it includes also any possible useful work done onto the magnet through its coupling to the core.
We see that Rp+Rc is the resistance viewed from the generator. But Rc is dynamical, not linear and frequency dependant. It can't be measured with an ohmmeter. In cc, Rc is 0. With an ohmmeter, only Rp can be measured. With this schematic we clearly understand why it is vain to consider that only Rp, the pure resistance of the coil wire, would dissipate energy and why the measurement protocol is unable to prove OU.

[gravityblock]

Hi Omega_0

Please see http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Transformer_equivalent_circuit.svg
It is the equivalent circuit of a real transformer. By just removing Rs/Xs and the secundary coil, we are left with an equivalent circuit of a real saturable inductor.
We can see Rc, the coil loss resistance. Attention: in this schematic, Rc is the coil loss resistance, NOT the coil resistance which is Rp. "Loss" means any energy apparently wasted in the core when viewed from the generator, i.e. it includes also any possible useful work done onto the magnet through its coupling to the core.
We see that Rp+Rc is the resistance viewed from the generator. But Rc is dynamical, not linear and frequency dependant. It can't be measured with an ohmmeter. In cc, Rc is 0. With an ohmmeter, only Rp can be measured. With this schematic we clearly understand why it is vain to consider that only Rp, the pure resistance of the coil wire, would dissipate energy and why the measurement protocol is unable to prove OU.

It has already been stated that any core losses taken into account will make it more OU.  Omni even showed the OU effect without the core material, so your Rc arguments with the core holds no weight against the measurement protocol Omni has chosen.

GB