My first Neman motor

[detrix42]

Ok, I have my Newman motor running now as I write this. It has been running for over 20min. with this setup:

Batter pack is 2 sets of 6 9V batteries:
Pack 1 measured 49.7v no-load
Pack 2 measured 48.8v no-load
(batteries are used batteries)

Coil is 3285ft of 30awg enamelled magnet wire.  Resistance is approximately 430ohms.
Calculated current is: pack 1-115.58mA
                              pack 2-113.49mA
                               Total: 229.07mA
My commutator pulses the coil 3 times per 180 degrees
So the current will be less than this. I do not have any analog meters. (yet)

Due to low voltage, RPMs are low. It has been running now for over 35min.

When I run with all batteries in series (aprox. 97v) the motor spins much faster (not very fast), but causes some back induced resistance. How do I prevent this or reduce it?  See my third video on youtube.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar3cxMOzKc8

I will stop the motor after an hour and check the voltage...Done.
After 1 hour of operation battery pack 1 is down to 45.2v and
                                             pace 2 is down to 45.0v.
hmmm....I will be ordering another spool of 30awg on tuesday Feb. 16th. Then about 5-10 days to get in delivered to me, then a couple of days to wind it by hand....talk to you all then. 

detrix42

[detrix42]

Is there someone on this site that could tell me what I am doing wrong?  I mean, with whats happening in my third video. (see previous post for link).  It starts out great, but fizzles out in like 30sec.  Tomorrow I plan on buying more 9V batteries.  I am going to try to get around 200v worth. And wednesday I will order more wire. But why is my current setup boging down and stopping?

[kmarinas86]

Review of the Newman effect: The key with the Newman effect is to keep current density down. Current density is simply the current divided by the area cross-section of your wire. So you do not want to increase your current by a greater amount than you increase your wire's area cross-section. One must try to focus more on adding wire and focus less on getting more batteries. The only time you should be getting more batteries is if:
1) You have the current density low enough.
2) The rotor runs for a long enough time.

Is there someone on this site that could tell me what I am doing wrong?  I mean, with whats happening in my third video. (see previous post for link).  It starts out great, but fizzles out in like 30sec.  Tomorrow I plan on buying more 9V batteries.  I am going to try to get around 200v worth. And wednesday I will order more wire. But why is my current setup boging down and stopping?

My recommendation is to not use those 9 volt batteries until you have got that wire installed on your motor. That extra wire is necessary to increase the stray capacitance of your coil. You need that for the generation of back-spikes opposing the tendency of the voltage to prematurely fall. This is especially important given the very low charge capacity of 9V batteries.

Disposable 9 volt batteries can be expensive in the long run. If you cannot get the recharge effect to truly work, as I have not, it is more economical in the long run to use rechargeables. It has been said by some however that the recharge effect only works with non-rechargeables. So if you are using rechargeables, strive for mechanical output.

If you decide to switch to rechargeables, I recommend that you take a different path than I have done. I would advise you to use thicker wire (24 AWG) and D-size rechargeables. This will do several things:

1. LESS TURNS: You will save A LOT of time winding the coil.
2. LESS VOLTAGE: You will need less voltage for the same RPM.
3. MORE CURRENT CAPACITY: You need the D-size rechargeables for this.
4. MORE ECONOMICAL (vs. my approach):
* Timewise:
- Less time winding coils
- Less time hooking up batteries
- You can fit more battery volume and energy in a flex-charger that allows the charging of both AA-size and D-size batteries, so you would attend less to the battery charger for a given charge of energy.
* Costwise:
- Not using ribbon cable as a means to save time for winding.
- The energy/cost of D-size rechargeable batteries is better than AA-size and 9V-size rechargables.

If you decide to take the voltage to the limit of the wire, which may be around 300 volts, I would advise you to buy in bulk (11LB spools) in 24 AWG. This would be around 1.6 miles of wire per spool.

[kmarinas86]

Review of the Newman effect: The key with the Newman effect is to keep current density down. Current density is simply the current divided by the area cross-section of your wire. So you do not want to increase your current by a greater amount than you increase your wire's area cross-section. One must try to focus more on adding wire and focus less on getting more batteries. The only time you should be getting more batteries is if:
1) You have the current density low enough.
2) The rotor runs for a long enough time.

Is there someone on this site that could tell me what I am doing wrong?  I mean, with whats happening in my third video. (see previous post for link).  It starts out great, but fizzles out in like 30sec.  Tomorrow I plan on buying more 9V batteries.  I am going to try to get around 200v worth. And wednesday I will order more wire. But why is my current setup boging down and stopping?

My recommendation is to not use those 9 volt batteries until you have got that wire installed on your motor. That extra wire is necessary to increase the stray capacitance of your coil. You need that for the generation of back-spikes opposing the tendency of the voltage to prematurely fall. This is especially important given the very low charge capacity of 9V batteries.

Disposable 9 volt batteries can be expensive in the long run. If you cannot get the recharge effect to truly work, as I have not, it is more economical in the long run to use rechargeables. It has been said by some however that the recharge effect only works with non-rechargeables. So if you are using rechargeables, strive for mechanical output.

If you decide to switch to rechargeables, I recommend that you take a different path than I have done. I would advise you to use thicker wire (24 AWG) and D-size rechargeables. This will do several things:

1. LESS TURNS: You will save A LOT of time winding the coil.
2. LESS VOLTAGE: You will need less voltage for the same RPM.
3. MORE CURRENT CAPACITY: You need the D-size rechargeables for this.
4. MORE ECONOMICAL (vs. my approach):
* Timewise:
- Less time winding coils
- Less time hooking up batteries
- You can fit more battery volume and energy in a flex-charger that allows the charging of both AA-size and D-size batteries, so you would attend less to the battery charger for a given charge of energy.
* Costwise:
- Not using ribbon cable as a means to save time for winding.
- The energy/cost of D-size rechargeable batteries is better than AA-size and 9V-size rechargables.

If you decide to take the voltage to the limit of the wire, which may be around 300 volts, I would advise you to buy in bulk (11LB spools) in 24 AWG. This would be around 1.6 miles of wire per spool.

Ideal plan of action:
1. Install the other wire first.
2. Install the 9V batteries.
3. Turn the machine on.
4. If it does not run as you would like, reconsider the alternative (a focus on mechanical output and not electrical output).

If switching to rechargables:
5. Buy an 11 pound spool of 24 AWG magnet wire (no more than $100).
6. Build your coil.
7. Buy neodymium magnets (size 2"x1"x0.5" N42 (not N50) is the most economical: $3/each on magnet4less.com).
8. Install the magnets.
9. Build the commutator.
10. Buy a good recharger that handles D-size batteries (no more than $125).
11. Buy from one to four dozen (12 to 48) D-size rechargables (from $48 to $192).
12. Find the best way to hook up the D-size rechargables (from $6 to $24).
13. Hook the batteries to the commutator.
14. Report results.

This plan is not cheap either at $500 with 38 magnets and 36 D-size rechargables.

My progress (including only the non-wasted parts) cost more than this (even when excluding the fan and the meters):
* $400 on AA batteries and connections
* $200 on ribbon cable coils
* $250 on N50 neodymium magnets
* $125 on battery charger

That's nearly $1000. Add the fan, the uninstalled coils, and the meters, and we are talking about $1500 that I spent the past two years, plus countless hours guessing what I should do next.

You could spend 2 times less and build a system with better results than mine, using the same principles, if:
1) If you do not use a ribbon cable.
2) If you use thicker wire (24 AWG).
3) If you D-size rechargable batteries.
4) If you use N42 magnets instead of N50 magnets

Also working for you here is that the recharge effect works better with batteries having less internal resistance. Therefore, it is better to use D-size batteries.

Whether or not anyone else does this, I would start doing this $500 project myself only if I could pay for it myself with a good-paying career. I don't see that happening until later in 2010 or 2011.

[detrix42]

kmarinas86: Thanks for your lengthy post.  I read somewhere that a 9v battery is capable of 625mA. I thought this would be enough.  Though I just read up on inductance. I knew that inductance caused a back flow of current. But I see many other videos that do not slow down and stop.  Most of them are the single contact pulse type. 

I will probably get the 26awg wire this time, but I can not afford 10-lbs of it. At least I can't afford 10-lbs of the enameled type.  hmmm...

Thanks again for your help.  I hope to have another video soon.