Electrical igniter for gas engines A keystone to understanding by Magluvin

[delboy]

I do not know, but according standard physics, even at the top of the Wave or at maximum EMF of the alternator, the "many makes and breaks" would not allow any considerable current to flow in the High-self inductunce coils and no particular energy could they release in return.

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It's not something standard, and you are right, it's all about FIELD not CURRENT. Think about this, if you have switch that interrupts with speed 500Hz then you have only 1ms of time "Ton" for CURRENT but FIELD FROM SOURCE will reach end of wire even if it's 300km long ! FIELD FROM SOURCE travel speed of light, and will activate all electrons in wire, and when break happens FIELD collapse and all that electrons charge your capacitor. In our case length of wire will not be more than 200 meters or little more:D
Depending on how big capacity , then you choose speed to achieve resonance with input inductivity.
Tesla used switch speed even 5000 Hz but Tesla's switch could withstand 1000A with low losses;)
I mean on discharge current 1000A from condenser

[baroutologos]

By the way, in the suggested diagram by Tito, i think i have figured out what zener diode does

It blocks the common transformer action during the inductor charging, allowing only the flyback to commence to capacitor.

So, if primary connected to battery is 220volts, and secondary output is 24 volts or a ratio 220/24 = 9 approximately, when apply 12 volts to the primary, we should have a zener of at least 12/9 volts to exit circuit.
hence 3 volts zener

[forest]

I have read the suggested patents by Tito, namely
* 568,178, 568,179, 568,180 & 577,670, + 609,250 & 568,177

Apart from the obvious that Tesla wanted to achieve a sparkgap-less, noise free, relatively low voltage, smooth-resonators of high efficiency, the following motivate my curiosity.

I must say that all this study has been brought by Tito. Tito suggested those patents. The main difference of those patents from Tesla usual ones (apart from the smoothest resonance attained) is the utilization of High induction coils for effciently charging the discharging caps.

We all here seacrhing for free energy i guess. So according to teacher Tito, if the extra energy does not lie in the normal Tesla coil resonator of LpCp & LsCs, then it must lies in the inductive discharge into capacitors. (or else those patents have not special meaning. At least for me)

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I proceed. In all those patents Tesla standardly uses high-self induction for storing a primary energy and then upon circuit break the inductive discharge channeled to cap(s), which in turn upon circuit resume the cap-stored energy is utilized in another coil.

Tesla used this concept by both utilizing DC primary source as well as AC.

1) Particularly in AC, he says it is of advantage to break the circuit at the top of the Voltage wave. (see pat 568,179, page 1, line 60).
I initially thought he interrupted the circuit at the top of current wave so as to store the inductor maximum energy. (since E=0.5*L*I^2) Nope he says, voltage wave. Note that top of voltage wave is not top in current wave in a curcuit containing inductunce.

2) I was stunned to read that Tesla described in Patent 568,180, page 2, line 40 that when operating in AC as a primary source is of advantage even at the peak of the wave, instead of 1 break, to have multiple makes & breaks and he used two discs one stationary and one rotating that each commutator segment was split to many individual ones. So at each AC voltage peak, many make-breaks were made.

I do not know, but according standard physics, even at the top of the Wave or at maximum EMF of the alternator, the "many makes and breaks" would not allow any considerable current to flow in the High-self inductunce coils and no particular energy could they release in return.

...
Bottom line, i got the impression that Tito wanted for me to know that using a considerable high-voltage (peak of wave) from the source, to charge a high-self inductunce for a minimum amount of time (say 1-10% of its L/R constant?) and then discharge it to a collector cap then we are to expect something unsual...

YES YES YES ! Houston we have the solution ! Finally delboy will be satisfied with DC being superior then AC in Tesla coil.
Why AC is not used in electromagnets ? That's why AC is useless in TC if you want OU.In AC there is no "free run", atoms are always in magnetic field oscillating back and forth 50 times per second.There is also hard to saturate core. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Why we call this device Tesla coil and not just Tesla transformer ? Because secondary is the CORE of coil.
Famous Tesla mass equivalence is the way to saturate secondary-core with magnetic field so every atom-magnet is properly oriented in field.

And of course I must add credit to Edison who was first to investigate this effect.

[Magluvin]

Forest
i would not apply the circuit with the switch "across" the coil, just the cap, with the coil in series with the cap and battery.
What Tito is doing here is when the switch is closed, the cap is not doing anything in the circuit. But, when opened, that empty cap charges super fast, especially when of small value, thus creating that impulse. A small cap charges very fast and in a very short time. Impulse.
It is different than the igniter pat as he said some small changes. In Titos version, the cap does not discharge into the coil, it just allows the charge in the coil to have a quick and short distance to go when the switch is opened. Impulse. And it seems to work well if it can be stable. You can put a magnet near the transformer and feel the little hammer shmackin.  =]

I was in disbelief as to how Teets circuit pulsed 12v on the 220v side and was able to get a substantial voltage from the 24v side. But it does.  The 12v, switched by relay, low freq above 60hz, is able to impulse the 220v side, which is much different than smooth ac from the wall.

But when fitted with those small caps across the contacts, the impulse is sharpened and the output is more than you will expect to be from thoughts of it alone. Its more than 24v. 
All my transformers are 120v/12v other than my largest from the UPS which is 24v sec center tapped.

Logos
Im kind of getting your drift on the zener. Keep it coming. I had a thought that maybe it had an effect of keeping the current running through the coil between pulses, and as to why I had that thought, my mind works in mysterious ways. But your way of thought seems more realistic. =] 

Delboy
I hear what you are saying, but are you suggesting that we built huge coils like Tesla or we wont be able to get the goods? Not many of us have a garage, much less a warehouse to build such a thing. We would like to work on small scale, also for cost of experimentation. I am not coming down on you. =] we appreciate the help tremendously. But I get the feeling you are saying we have to go huge for it to work.
Also, we are looking for more useful output and no lightning bolts jumping off of the equipment.   

If you can throw some tips toward those goals, that would be a great help.   

I am now hearing you on the air core transformer also. I had been thinking about that and the best way to go about it without getting too large and some criteria that would need to be followed. Like, should the secondary be inside of the primary, or does that not make a difference? Should there be spacing between turns of each coil, or can they be wound tight? And if so, how do we know what spacing to use? And is it that having a core material, ferrite, etc. , is it problematic?

Thanks for your time Delboy, your a good boy. =]

Mags

[forest]

I'm looking at ozone patent and I must say , I'm confused.Isn't DC commutator also a second circuit interrupter here ? In that case part of energy of down coil of motor armature may discharge back to power source terminal B due to commutator action. The second (upper) coil always discharges to capacitor on magnetic field collapse.
Am I correct ?