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Overunity Machines Forum



Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !

Started by hartiberlin, April 25, 2010, 02:33:30 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 19 Guests are viewing this topic.

Omnibus

Again, it should be clear that a convincing demonstration of a self-sustaining system would overshadow everything else and would dwarf any of the concerns expressed in this discussion.

The problem is it hasn't been demonstrated convincingly yet and the discussion is about how to approach the further studies. One suggestion is to carry on with the blind trial and error approach expecting to hit the lottery again because the gut feeling is that that has already happened from the telltale signs demonstrated in the video.

On the other hand, rationally, the scientific approach still doesn't detect reasons to expect unusual behavior. Electrochemical cells of this type are something trivial and no unusual behavior has been found in them. If Anton cell behaves differently it has to be demonstrated by appropriate experiments. The most one can expect, if there are no unusual phenomena occurring, is this cell to allow a very nearly reversible electrolysis so the energy spent would be approximately equal to the Gibbs free energy of the reaction (not to be confused with the free energy used as a term in forums such as this) which, of course, is lower than the enthalpy of the burning of hydrogen. That would be interesting, it follows from the standard thermodynamics and in some sense can count as overunity. However, given the great inefficiency of the motors, especially of that cheap Chinese motor, it cannot account for the self-sustaining run of the system. Of course, if the evolution of the gases proceeds as known, the mixture is stoichiometric and the enthalpy is the known enthalpy from the Handbooks of Chemistry and Physics.

It was suggested that prior experiments have left traces of chemicals and that may be the source of the additional energy, not provided by the current source. That's unlikely. Another suggestion is that components of the air such as the nitrogen might contribute to the ostensible excess energy by somehow having the purported HHO catalyze its oxidation at high pressures. A claim that somehow a given proportion of nitrogen in that mixture suddenly changes that enthalpy to incredible values also has to be proved experimentally. As a detail, it would not be gas chromatography that would be suitable to study what that critical mixture is because we are not interested in the retention times of the various components of that gas mixture. Rather we want to know what these species exactly are and what their proportion in the mixture is. That can be provided by mass spectrometry.

felix.lamet

Can someone proof this with a schematic or a guide?
greetings

sterlinga

On April 28, 2010, Directory:Moray King (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Moray_B_King) wrote:

Sterling,

Thanks so much! They posted their announcement on my birthday; what a wonderful gift!

Let's make sure they get my 2009 slide show from your site, "Water Fuel via ZPE"

Thanks again, you made my day!

-Moray
============
See
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Electrolysis/Moray_King/WaterFuelZPE2009.ppt
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Water_Dissociation_Using_Zero_Point_Energy
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Moray_King:Closed-Loop_Water_Fuel_Cell
http://freeenergynews.com and http://peswiki.com
"The best cutting-edge, clean energy news and directory service on the net."

Omnibus

Zero point energy is a problem in quantum mechanics which has to be dealt with in order to improve quantum mechanics, rather than use it as a candidate explanation of a phenomenon whose own reality is questionable.The presentation summarizes results of enthusiasts while the mentioned academics cause one to be even less enthusiastic in considering this as a legitimate area of research. Therefore, as it was made clear and I can't agree more, nothing short of a self-sustaining system can legitimize the claims by the few enthusiasts that there's something to it as a new energy phenomenon worthy of study. In this respect the effort of the German group we're discussing is a step in the right direction.

Now I realize it isn't the first time I'm hearing about this gas. Several years ago I met someone who had been a personal friend of the Bulgarian inventor Yul Brown credited with what is claimed to be a discovery, discussed here. The lack of hard data of the energy balances and the heavy reliance on telltale signs made me reluctant to consider it further. The same would have applied today had it not been for the announcement of our German colleagues that they have achieved self-sustaining state of their machine. I hope they can make it easily reproducible and determine the exact conditions for achieving that state so that independent parties can reproduce their result.

briansahern

I am new to the Anton topic. How do I post a comment?  I have a great deal of experience with this topic.

Brians