What's your opinion on "Consumption" as it relates to magnet only motors

[hoarybat]

From wiki.answers.com :

Is there any successful magnetic motor?

"Yes, they are permanent magnet DC motors. They run on DC and have been here for decades. The idea of a motor powered by magnets has been also with us for generations now. These are called perpetual motion devices. Motors will always need energy to run. They can not derive their energy from a magnet unless it consumes that magnet."

Consumes the magnet?  I was under the impression after reading many posts here that if anyone of us were able to get a stator/rotor configuration to turn for hours/days/weeks/longer and that the forces of the colliding NEO mags were about equal (stator magnet power meeting rotor magnet power) that it should run for many years with little loss.  "Consumes" seems to me from above to imply prematurely killing the magnets.  Others have stated that you will only get a fraction of the energy back from what you have invested in the magnets should your motor actually work.  I know I have already invested plenty and 2 yrs. in this ongoing quest and as things are starting to look up design wise for me I am also concerned about this Consumption deal.  Appreciate your opinion on this and thanks in advance.

[Gwandau]

hoarybat,

A permanent magnet can lift a car. And it takes a lot of energy to lift a car. Does this energy consume the magnet? No, it doesn't.

So the energy spent in keeping the car aloft for years, were does it come from? Nobody knows.

And just by heating the magnet a little, the attractive force dissappears.

Whatever academic science proposes, electromagnetism still is a total mystery to mankind.

Nobody knows why a permanent magnet attract a piece of iron.


There is today an academic belief that magnetic energy comes from the orbiting motion of electrons.
This belief is founded on the hastily proposed supposition that the observation is the cause.


I am fairly well acquainted with the spinning electron theory, which is based on observations of the electron behavior
in a saturated crystal lattice.

The actual observation is well founded, but the conclusion that this is the origin of magnetism is still just a wild unfounded theory.

The only thing researchers in the dynamics of magnetic domains have managed to observe is the fact that the north pole part
of the crystal lattice consists of unpaired electrons spinning in one direction and that the south pole part consists of
unpaired electrons spinning in the opposite direction.

But this doesn´t really prove that magnetism is derived from spinning electrons.

So contemporary science still doesn’t know what electromagnetism is, and fails to give a satisfactory explanation why a magnet creates attraction,
but there are some interesting theories, like David barclays relativity theory, proposing that magnets are not themselves the very origin of their attractive
and repulsive qualities, but merely acting as a sort of lens refracting an underlying field, where the appearance of attraction and repulsion is caused by
a decrease or increase of space created between the poles of the magnets.

And if magnets are just a sort of lenses defracting an underlying field, like David Barclay suggests, then it is all about tapping energy
from this underlying field, and the magnets themselves become secondary responses to the condition of field.

This way there would be no violation of the second law of thermodynamics regarding the invention of a magnetic motor.

Personally I believe this to be the actual case.

But the answer to this riddle is still hidden to mankind, which makes magnets such a intriguing white spot on the academic map.

Gwandau

[norman6538]

check out this pendulum that swings higher than its dropped point.
http://student.ccbcmd.edu/~norman/magwork.html

Norman

[hoarybat]

Gwandau,  very informative but can you elaborate on whether you think this "Consumption" (Neo magnets losing strength) over a short time in a rotating magnet motor with no electricity supplied will happen?  I'm hearing about Eddy Currents heating them (neos) causing magnet strength loss.  That maybe an attraction motor (which I have now implemented) will reduce or eliminate Eddy Currents.  Are Eddy Currents only created on magnet motors which have outside electricity applied (electromagnet) to manipulate a pole to allow rotation or can Eddy Currents be created in Magnet only motors lacking added outside electricity as well.  Totally confused and ignorant about it obviously.  THanks

[Gwandau]

hoarybat,

eddy currents is a phenomenon created by any type of magnetic field moving along an eddy current inducing metal like copper or aluminum.

For example, if you drop a neo magnet in a copper tube, it will fall rather slow due to the created eddy fields when passing the surrounding copper surface.
Or just try sliding a neo along a steep copper plate. Its downhill slide will be considerably slowed down by the counteracting eddy fields created.

Regarding "consumption" (Neo magnets losing strength), magnets does not run down if their repulsive positions are alternated with attractive positions.

So if anyone made a magnet motor that way,  the magnets would not run down.

The following information is a quote from the Canadian inventor Alan L Francoeur:

"If the magnets are placed in a state of repulsion only against each other in a magnet motor system, I would agree they will lose their magnetism over time. 
If the magnets in the Perendev magnet motor are always in a state of repulsion only, then this would explain the magnet depletion problem.

However, if the magnets are placed in a working system so as to have repulsion forces on one half cycle and attraction forces on the other half cycle,
then the magnets will continue their  density unchanged as they will realigned themselves.

Thus my Impulsion motor.

I have a set of 36 neodymium rare earth magnets grade 35 mounted in my permanent magnet dynamo since 1987,
and I have found no difference in the density today as compared to the time I first ordered them in 1987.

Sincerely
Alan L Francoeur
ALF
Inventor
B.C. Canada

end of guote


The very reason that science has failed to nail down the physics behind magnetic energy seems to indicate
that we are confronted with a chapter in our understanding of physical reality that may change our very outlook
on reality. Keep in mind that all modern quantum physics is derived from old equations by guys like Bohr and Einstein,
with no real physical backup, and that quantum theory, since the discovery of zero point energy and the cavitation
phenomenon, has had some troublesome years to succeed with the incorporation of these discoveries into the quantum
theory.

Quantum theory may be a blind alley. As said before, I recommend anyone with an interest in paradigm shifting theory to read
David Barclay's ground braking relativity theory that discards all our present concepts of time, light, energy, magnetism and so forth.
http://www.gravitycontrol.org/unity-book.html

I expect mankind to take a great leap forward regarding this when the physics of magnetism is fully understood..

Gwandau