Working Air Battery

[conradelektro]

@zhak

I think that kitchen paper towel comes pretty close to synthetic tulle.

I did long time tests with copper - aluminium and copper - mild steel (both separated by kitchen paper towel soaked with water):

- tap water without salt works but gives less ampere than salted water;

- after two to three weeks the cell (or battery) stops working because strange deposits have formed on the metals; washing and scrapping off the deposits and replacing the paper brings the battery back to life; therefore one should come up with a design that allows easy assembly and disassembly;

- total submersion of the metals in water only works for some hours (therefore one should use paper).

I am on the way to try silver and zinc and will report the results.

I never tried magnesium because I consider it dangerous (fire hazard).

A very good anode would be graphite, but I did not discover a good source in Central Europe yet.

A very good combination concerning voltage is graphite in combination with magnesium but silver in combination with zinc comes very close to it (and is easier to get; silver coated copper wire is not expensive; also zinc coated wire is not expensive, many nails are zinc coated).

Did you replicate the "Russian battery"?

Greetings, Conrad

[mscoffman]

Russian to English text translation c/o "the fish"

---

translated from zahk's post;

In order to create a compact and powerful battery all that is necessary is to use
thin copper and zinc disks (or disks covered with zinc foil), and as insulator thin
synthetic tulle cloth which will serve as a water permeable insulator. One gathers
the battery together as copper foil - tulle cloth - zinc foil - tulle cloth - copper foil
and so on to obtain the resultant small battery pile working with water, plus a low
yield of hydrogen gas. It produces the electrolysis products of water automatically.

[Web link defining Tulle cloth];

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulle_netting

In the year 1918. (I do not remember the exact date)  Russian scientific Vasiliy
Petrov built this battery consisting of the alternating copper and zinc disks,
between these circles was lain cloth, in order to insulate disks from one another.
Then fresh water was poured into this device and it was mounted on the
inside of a boat. In the boat, an electric motor with the power of ~2KW was also
mounted and the battery connection provided about the same power to run it .
After this several days of undergoing tests on a river, the motor ran constantly
without interruption, but all this work did not bring this copper-zinc battery
to exhaustion even though it consumed no fuel (except for a very scanty
expenditure of water) Since it was possible to feed electric motor on the boat  -
this battery would be well suited to river transportation. These batteries
were also used to power a radio.

So even though it is completely possible to make such small batteries, and they
will serve for years, It most likely is not profitable to produce these long lasting
small batteries.


---

Natural water will contain some ionic minerals and CO^2 is absorbed
by any standing water to yield carbonic acid ions.


:S:MarkSCoffman

[conradelektro]

@mscoffman and all interested in simple batteries:

There seems to be a grave error in the Russian text.

Look at a "voltaic pile", e.g. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Voltaic_pile.png

It is obvious that the right order of metals and tulle is the following:

copper
tulle
zinc
copper
tulle
zinc
copper
tulle
zinc

There must always be a zinc plate in touch with a copper plate (besides the first copper and the last zinc plate). The Russian text omits this "touching of metals" in a voltaic pile and proposes tulle between all plates. This would cause 0 Voltage (in case the first and the last plate is of the same metal) or just one "copper - zinc" difference in Voltage over the whole pile (which is around 0.5 Volt).

And it is hard to believe the 2 KW.

Interesting, already in 1918 there where tall tales about technical achievements. And I thought that started with overunty.com 

Greetings, Conrad

[jeanna]

Just another update on my next air battery. Today I remembered to really soak the cloth in the strong epsom salts solution. With 32 turns around the 1" copper pipe 7 inches long I got 201mA.
That is my record.

I am liking that I can get these results using a small length of a copper pipe that is available at the hardware store... not to mention the $3.40 price of it.
A "D" cell is the same diameter, and about 2 1/2 inches long.
With the copper wire that forms a hoop at the top it is the same as 3 "D" size batteries.

I am now lighting 6 leds in series from the secondary of this, which means that if I add 3 more strings of  6 leds in parallel, it will be as bright as the 24 led lobe light in the camper, which is a great lamp.

Hmm I am wondering if I can slip the pipe over a "candle" in a standard lamp and run that lamp from a bright jtc. Looks like a trip the the thrift store is coming up. (that is more fun than moving isn't it?) 

-------------

I also want to report on the carbon stick wound with a little mag ribbon.
That is only 3 inches long and I wound just about 6 times around which might be 4 inches length of mag ribbon.
I made a special jtc for it without a base resistor but with a 47uF cap at the base, (like the 'mosquito' that lidmotor did). That puppy lights 2 leds in series off its secondary for days before needing a drink.

I am reporting this because it is easy to think if I do not say anything it has stopped.
It has NOT stopped.

thank you,

jeanna

edit add:

And it is hard to believe the 2 KW.

Interesting, already in 1918 there where tall tales about technical achievements. And I thought that started with overunty.com 

Hi conrad,
I agree the 2KW is really hard to believe.
I am glad you said it!

Also,
Stephan has been using graphit paper. We called it carbon paper in the states. We used to use it for making pressure copies of typed documents. Maybe there is a store with old stock that has some?

jeanna

[Mk1]

@jeanna

Try to take your mag/copper battery and carbon rod , and try to make a battery between the carbon and copper by using the copper side lead of your battery (paper on the carbon rod ,your battery lead copper side twisted around the carbon rod), and check the voltage between the magnesium and the carbon ...

Mark