Rosemary Ainslie COP>17 Circuit / A First Application on a Hot Water Cylinder

[Rosemary Ainslie]

Hi Fritz - I must say I'm getting really intrigued with the extent of your knowledge.  I take it you're a chemist.  I was told - by one of the battery manufacturers that those early alkaline batteries have actually never 'proved' recharge efficiencies.  Not sure of the chemistry involved.  Could you enlighten me?  Apparently that's why he recommended the nickle metal hydride number.

What I do know is that there's been a surprising lack of objection to the 'thinking' in using batteries like this.  And, as mentioned I'm captivated by the symmetry.  But I'm certainly not satisfied that we couldn't just use lead acids together to achieve the same effect.  I get it that you're advising some critical speed to the current delivery to reach that optimised recharge rate.  Frankly - on this kind of arrangement the switch can be designed to be as slow or fast as required to get to this value.  The only proviso is that energy is continually applied to the load - as required.

But what gets me is the simplicity.  If this works - as I see it - then what price utility suppliers?  They'll be 'dead in the water' - surely?  I see a possible requirement for some panels - greatly reduced from what is conventionally seen as needed - and one can operate a household with nothing but rechargeable batteries.  That's got to be cheaper than a grid supply. 

In any event.  We've still got to get some tests up.  But this circuit will definitely be a part of that.  The more so as the design is so much more elegant than those noisy switches.  Here's hoping.  But it may not need so much 'hope'.  Certainly the logic is clear enough to mainstream.  Not that obscure.  Why has this not been progressed if the knowledge has been out there?  Am I missing something?

[fritz]

Limiting the consumed / transfered charge to what is immediatly available is an interesting concept. I would assume that this charge is transfered in almost cap-a-like manner. fascinating.

[otto]

Hello all

@Rosemary

thanks for your answers.

Otto

[Rosemary Ainslie]

Hello Otto - not sure that my answers were much help.  But always a pleasure.     Hopefully you'll come up with some much needed solutions to those switches in both circuit configurations.  The one thing that needs full exploration is the optimised amount of induction on the circuit.  At this stage - for simplicity - the idea is to keep the inductance on the resistor.

And Fritz - not sure what you're seeing there.  But I'm glad you're getting into this.  I'm reasonably certain you've seen this already - but there's an ac current on the load in that schematic of mine.  That should be enough to turn a motor reasonably efficiently.  I see this as something that may have uses on electric vehicles.  I hope so anyway. While SA boast electric car manufacturers they don't have the resources for the kind of experimentation that could exploit this.  I'd love to get this across to some manufacturer that does.  It would be SO nice to see it exploited.

Kindest regards,
Rosemary
http://www.scribd.com/aetherevarising

[fritz]

Hi Fritz - I must say I'm getting really intrigued with the extent of your knowledge.  I take it you're a chemist.  I was told - by one of the battery manufacturers that those early alkaline batteries have actually never 'proved' recharge efficiencies.  Not sure of the chemistry involved.  Could you enlighten me?  Apparently that's why he recommended the nickle metal hydride number.

In those early days - battery manufactors were pretty scared about the possibility to recharge their batteries. This is why I think they invested lots of money to produce unrechargeable alkalines. (Everything else would have been commercial nonsense)
The available NiCds (AA) had 250mAh and had a high leakage current - no competitor to traditional alkalines.

What I do know is that there's been a surprising lack of objection to the 'thinking' in using batteries like this.  And, as mentioned I'm captivated by the symmetry.  But I'm certainly not satisfied that we couldn't just use lead acids together to achieve the same effect.  I get it that you're advising some critical speed to the current delivery to reach that optimised recharge rate.  Frankly - on this kind of arrangement the switch can be designed to be as slow or fast as required to get to this value.  The only proviso is that energy is continually applied to the load - as required.

If you use batteries like this - you have to think about composite devices. There is an energy conversion part which has special DC/AC characteristics - as well as an energy storage part. On experimental accumulators for storing huge amounts of energy - they use an electrolyte reservoir (for storage) and an extra converter part with electrolyte plates.

The energy conversion part maybe thought of electrolyte condensor with huge capacity in parallel with tight coupled voltage source(with restricted charge)
As long as you operate that with well defined pulses for discharge/charge - the storage part remains almost untouched - which boost the efficiency to a pretty high degree.

Another point is that I think the properties of this conversion part  stay almost the same until the battery is completly empty.

Both effects in combination increase the harvestable energy to a level somewhat completly different as with DC.

But what gets me is the simplicity.  If this works - as I see it - then what price utility suppliers?  They'll be 'dead in the water' - surely?  I see a possible requirement for some panels - greatly reduced from what is conventionally seen as needed - and one can operate a household with nothing but rechargeable batteries.  That's got to be cheaper than a grid supply. 

In any event.  We've still got to get some tests up.  But this circuit will definitely be a part of that.  The more so as the design is so much more elegant than those noisy switches.  Here's hoping.  But it may not need so much 'hope'.  Certainly the logic is clear enough to mainstream.  Not that obscure.  Why has this not been progressed if the knowledge has been out there?  Am I missing something?

At least I would see a huge increase in lifetime and capacity. Everything else is ouf of my scope at the moment.
The major problem I see is that you need tight inter-disciplinary research for that. The electrical guys are not interested in batteries - as long there is no chip which does it all - and the chemistry guys are interested in selling batteries as long as they can. So (my opinion)commercially - no go - until there is a major change.