The downfalls of conventional electrolysis - and how to fix them

[ramset]

A reply from Bob Potchen

I'm the type of person that likes to meet people face to face,....and, just happen to know Palmer and surrounding area quite well....you see, I own a house up there. So, after my UK trip, I have scheduled a trip to AK,...and will hopefully get a chance to meet in person Chris hunter. If he has an interest, and a working system, we can bring to market this invention in weeks, not years....in the meantime....I can put out the feelers to some of my good friends up there to "go have a beer with him"  (on me of course), to let him know that I am a Down to Earth kind of guy, and not the internet "injector" 

So, stay tuned....and I will let you know.

Thanks, Cheers,

Bob Potchen

[LtBolo]

Vetting Magnetrolysis [W]
@ltbolo
I see bubbles!!

I'd love it to be true ramset...but I don't think his demonstration was magnetrolysis...given that there apparently were 2 metal plates and clean water. It sounded like the magnet shifted some kind of operating point and the system went from dissipating no power to about 10W, with an expected increase in gas output.

I do think that the move toward resonant solenoids is interesting. We have been playing with similar coils in our lab for the last month or so. Fun toys.



Don't know much about Mr. Potchen other than that he and Bob Boyce had quite a public spat, and Bob Boyce seemed pretty convinced that Bob Potchen was trying to kill him. Not that I think that Bob Boyce is completely sane, but I would take that under advisement were I going into business with him. (Chris...)

[ramset]

Super Bob's [the Cell] first attempt,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3civVBRbAI

And Chris Hunters work

http://www.powershow.com/view/d1bbe-MDk3M/MAGNETIC_HYDROGEN_PRODUCTION_THROUGH_INDIRECT_ELECTROLYSIS_USING_MAGNETIC_INDUCTION


Chet

More here,
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5809-closed-loop-electrolyser-3.html

[ramset]

Sorry Chris,
Didn't check my mail till recently[5 min]
To the anonymous man!
You say you brouse the forums
If you read this, Thank you for believing in Chris Hunter
enough to run 100's of experiments.
And sorry for sharing this,
But I will always share ,this is Open source!
Chetkremens@gmail.com
Ps
Would love to learn more about your system!

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Reply |Alaska Star to me
show details 9:37 PM (23 hours ago)

fromAlaska Star <alaskastar2000@hotmail.com>
toChet Kremens <chetkremens@gmail.com>

dateSun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:37 PM
subjectFW: Electrolysis accelerator
mailed-byhotmail.com

hide details 9:37 PM (23 hours ago)


I know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I have blanked his name, and his email.

You have been seeking independent validation of various theories that I came up with, and successful replication.  The person I have been conversing with will probably see this and shoot me, but he, like me, would rather stay out of the public forums and the stew-pot of feces that is found there.

Like I stated from the beginning, this is, has been, and always will be far simpler than you can imagine.  You have always the option of making it super complicated.

Now I was asked a question regarding his build and his design with a stumbling block, and I answered his problem, which has relevance to what you are working on, for that is the only reason I am sharing it with you.  Keep in mind that my non-participation in the forum and his non-participation in the forum is not something that says that I am hiding anything.  This guy has the brains enough to figure it out, for all it's simplicity, and use it.

How hard can it be?

So, I am sharing this with you in confidence that it would not be twisted around, but the knowledge gained and applied, proven, can be used to teach others, so that they my indeed understand such simple concepts.

Chris




From: ***************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Electrolysis accelerator
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0400



Hi again Chris,

Hope your project has moved a few more steps forward since last time. Stay with it.

Since your reply, I took your suggestions and was able solve my electrical issue. It enabled me to be able to finally test
for much longer periods of time. That allowed me to take things even further. Thanks Chris ..you got me out of a rut.
Those stator magnets were very strong, and the effect dramatic as I said before, but it led me to conclude
that I needed something with an even greater magnetic capability.

Since then, I was able to pick up a powerhouse industrial electromagnet, that at 12 volts has a lifting strength of 889 lbs ( nearly half a ton ! )
and is designed to operate at either 12DC, 24 DC or 120 AC, with lukewarm heat at best at full power. With a variac I'm able to run it
anywhere from 10 AC to 140 AC without a problem. Weighs a whopping 7 lbs. Cost me $60 and has a magnetic field that extends nicely.
At 12 volts DC it sticks to metal like its welded, and a simple PWM takes care of the regulation.
If you're looking for one or two for any reason, let me know ..I have a great supplier.

The accelerating effect on electrolysis is monstrous using this magnet. I'm purposefully using mason jars for testing, so that I can
visually see what's going on, but the pull is so strong that I'm continually breaking jars. I should be able to overcome that pretty simply
with a different plate assembly configuration.

Thanks again Chris. When I'm done I'll upgrade my internet service so that I can send you a video clip (for your eyes only).

                                                                                       ..............................

Incidentally..While doing some lurking I see that you are being invited to join a discussion forum. For your sake, I hope you don't take the bait.
It will only lead you to frustration and argument and a huge waste of your time dealing with people who's only goal is to be King of the Castle.
Just by reading what's in those forums, you can see that there's nothing new to learn from people who are still just talking in the same circles.
You've been there before and have been around long enough to know that most people only want something for nothing.
Take the bait..and you'll lose another year.





----- Original Message -----
From: Alaska Star
To: *****************@*************.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?


Hey!  Yes I have my voice back, and I have been quite busy.  Building an electric car from scratch by designing the motor, the battery management, speed controller, etc all from scratch. 
Ok, to keep the stator coils from frying up, you need to observe Kirschoff's Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics.  These are so important that you will soon learn the most valuable lesson in circuit design.

I will start with a simple circuit because keeping it simple is important.

We have a power source (can be AC or DC) and we have a Coil.  Now this coil is nothing more than a length of wire, and this length of wire can be 1 inch long or it can be 1 mile long, it doesn't matter.  What would happen if I put a 10 inch length of wire across the terminals of a car battery?  Gets quite hot quite quickly!  Now, let's put a heat device in series with this wire, like a light bulb.

So we insert a light bulb which is 90% heat and 10% light in series with your coil.  Now the coil becomes passive and is a conductor and an inductor, and we observe the laws of thermodynamics.  How?  For every hot side there's a cold side.  Equal and opposite reaction.  So if the cold side of the circuit is desired to be the coils, then we need something to get hot so the coils stay cold.  The energy has to go someplace. 

Now if we put a large ballast resistor in series with your coil (I prefer the tube type carbon pile ballast resistors because I can run a cooling pipe through it to a radiator to cool it down) then it will allow enough current to flow to generate the magnetic field you need without messing with the frequency.  If you use a light bulb, you will be restricted by the amount of current that can flow through the tungsten element. A large resistor is designed to carry current but convert energy to heat in a specific location, which would be wherever you want that heat to be located.

Now if you want to go a step further....put your 2 plates in series with the coil, where the power flows THROUGH the water to get to the coil, and the resistance of the water will keep the coil cold, but it will self regulate from the gaseous resistive barrier that builds on the plates from the hydrogen and oxygen.

I hope this helps, and please if you could, let me know how it works for you, test results, etc.

Chris Hunter
ArcticTek.com



From: *******************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:14 -0400


Hey Chris

You probably don't remember me 'cause I only send you an email maybe once a year.
The first time was before you got sick...the last time was when you were getting your voice back.
Hopefully that's all behind you now, and you're back in some friggin' zone again.

If you remember, I'm not a member of any forum...just a lurker and a browser once in a while.

I'm stuck on something that maybe you can help me get around the stump. I've run hundreds of tests on this
and is the only area of electrolysis that I'm focused on. ..The effect of magnetism on the electrolysis process.

For the past year I've been playing with accelerating the electrolysis process using a couple of fair sized stator coils
(7.5 amp and 8.4 amp) with great success using straight 120 AC. ( No effect with DC). One has 4 coils and the other has two.
Both very powerful electromagnets. I've run them as conventional electromagnets as well as connecting the windings to have
the same magnetic pole facing in. Simple 2-plate martensitic ss electrodes are just fine as a cell for testing.
The acceleration process is monstrous running this way. You probably already know that a 15 to 20 times increase in the rate
would not be exaggerating. (I'd gladly send you a vid clip but my cable provider has me capped, so I cant do that )

As you probably know, you cant run a stator coil that way for much longer than 10 seconds or the windings will fry
with the conductive load, so I protect the windings with a 7.5 amp variac . The problem with that is the increase in acceleration
is very minimal running this way, and I can only run it at 7.5 amps at around 30 volts AC..

Anything you can think of anything (electrical or otherwise) that can add to this set up try to get around this?
Even if you don't have an answer for that ..any thoughts on a slightly different approach I might try with this?

Hope you're doing well.

[hydrodude12]

Hi everyone.

I have been reading all about this since Oswald first presented it. I also read everything on the energetic forum. It seems that Farrah is completely convinced that Oswaldonfire and this Magnetolysis concept are pure garbage. Furthermore, she goes on to tell off on Chet that he is being too trusting.

I believe that Oswald, Alaskastar, and the Magnetolysis concept are credible, and that we are simply not looking in the right area yet.

I cannot explain why Oswald has suddenly disappeared from this forum and everywhere else. Perhaps he wants to let us figure things out by ourselves for a while? Who knows. I will try to PM him and see if I can get a response.

meanwhile.... I have some ideas on how to develop this magnetolysis.

since the NaOH solution was a problem for many people from the start, maybe we don't absolutely need it. ( I also have my doubts about a single atom being a successful electrode, it seems to me that we would need more than one atom together to be an electrode. I dunno).

What if, instead of single Sodium atoms, we used a nickel powder? I am thinking to use nickel because the nickel will not oxidize in the water. if we keep a suspension of nickel powder (maybe a little air bubbler or something to keep it moving, then shouldnt we be able to induce current in the particles in the same way as the Na atoms? i dont see anything wrong with it.

And it seems to me that the major thing is the electronics. I mean, the largest variable in the designs seems to be the electronics. get the input right, and it works. get it wrong, and nothing; hence discouragement.

What if:

before we even start worrying about our solutions and electrolytes and all that crazy stuff, we just concentrate on getting our coil and driver circuitry all correct. We can test it by establishing some sort of test of induced current. I'm thinking that if we place a single wire in the middle of the coil, then we can measure the current coming through that and tweak our stuff to get the max current out of that wire. Then once that is set, we put our solution in place of the wire and we should see results. Sounds good, eh?

Thoughts?