vetting god

[WilbyInebriated]

              If you have some material evidence or a logical proof, great! present it.


                                                            I present   Love
                             
                                         I gave it a good think![praying and such]

                                 If I were just a pile of DNA, Morphing into whatever ?
                                                              Why do I love?

                                                        Its a design feature!

                                           I could smother you in examples of love!
                                                                 Chetty

chetty... i am very disappointed. you obviously haven't been paying attention... 'presenting love' and then attributing 'why you love' to a design feature of god is a logical fallacy. it does not follow.

quit being so lazy and learn what logic is. here i even made a clicky thing for you, since you appear to require someone holding your hand...

[ramset]

                                                                          Wilbyi
                                                                            Ok
                                                        I will look at  the clicky thing,
                                                  maybe then I'll understand your rules.
                                                                          Chetty

[ramset]

                               HHMMmm...............
                             
                                   I'll be Back!
                     [Spoken like a California Governor.]

[ramset]

WilbyInebriated,
Quote:
people, all people, have a need to share a bit of themselves with others.
------------------------------------

                                 Design feature!!
                    [not optional, standatrd equipment]
                                     Hows it go?

          I[the big "I"] could live anywhere in the universe,
                         But I chose to live in "YOU"!
                                  Even Rainmen!
                        Perhaps especially "RainMen"!
                                   
                                          Chetty

[Rosemary Ainslie]

Wilby - for what it's worth, here's my take.  God - thus far - has been appropriated by mere mortals and these mere mortals presume to 'speak on behalf of God'.  Which is absurd.  Religion is that systematic appropriation of that right.  And religion is best served where it preys on guilt and the promotion of a sense of obligation, where sins can be expiated - only at a price.  Big subject. 

So.  There are a few considerations related to religion.  The one is the presumption of authority - which is always questionable. And then there's the ability to exploit a message to any self-serving purpose - thereby corrupting any moral basis of religion.  Which is historically evident and seems to be traditional.  The 'exclusivity' that belongs to religion is barbaric and presumptive and does little to promote the general well-being of the individual - or even alleviate the suffering of the human condition. 

But we do have reason - and it is reasonable to assume a beginning and it is thereby also reasonable to recognise that, in as much as we were not 'responsible' for that 'beginning' then someone or something may be.  And where it may not be entirely logical - it is, nonethelss, 'understandable' to attribute that beginning to 'God'.  That we then apply 'human properties' to God - is perhaps a little pretentious - but it's kind of understandable and it's a kind of bench mark.  We're definitely not PERFECT and one hopes that 'deep inside' the potential to be 'perfect' would be nice.  Therefore, by contrast to us - perhaps that God like being - is perfect.  Hopefully. 

So, in it's way God represents an aspiration - of sorts.  NOW.  What I think is this.  Religion - ALL religion - bastardises the human condition - where and if it constantly reminds us of a collective guilt - this wild unsolicited, undeserved inheritance that we got from some clumsy choices that some distant forebear may have made.  Frankly if God is willing to punish everyone in such a way - then he's somewhat tyrannical and somewhat unforgiving.  Not the kind of God I'd care to know.  Certainly not PERFECT.  However.  If and where religion advances a 'greater understanding' and, as Chet keeps saying 'love' - then that's definitely in line with PERFECTION.  It's the kind of aspirational high that I think could keep the entire human race more or less motivated and motorised. 

But it's a really deep subject.  We are all hidebound by evolutionary constraints.  And I wonder if there are sufficient natural pressures to induce greater evolutionary adaptations.  But what we do have, collectively, is a brain.  And where - to date - evolution has depended on those external pressures - I wonder if we are not now evolving a greater capacity to discover things like 'anti gravity' - perpetual motion - time travel - all those things - subjects - that are, outside of these forums - considered impolite subjects for discussion.  But which, nonetheless, are preferred states of being and which I, personally, would consider more perfect than our present lot. 

In other words - the 'reach' into new fields of endeavours - into better adaptations - into perfection - rests on a kind of collective reach which is taking over from Nature's usual methods of evolutionary adaptation.  In other words - it's not necessarily a question of survival.  In fact it may be - in the long term.  But, by and large it's the cherry - the improved condition of survival.  And since this has NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with logic  - and as our 'logic' forges this path so to speak - then - that is the same logic that first perceived of the state of perfection.  And that concept of a state of perfection is, in turn, vested in the concept of a 'creator' at the beginning - who, hopefully, is greater than us mere mortals.

Therefore do I believe in God.  And therefore do I absolutely NOT subscribe to any religion.  And that's my tuppence worth. 

Kindest as ever,
Rosie