Relative Permittivity of Water

[minde4000]

So what the hell... since when permittivity is ohmic resistance?

Water permitivity is not the same as water ohmic resistance...

Minde

[Torana]

......CORRECT.

All R measurements are provided by the builders themselves using their own meters, on their own time not myn , Im just
not that keen.
Anyone testing their own "water cap" should pay more attention to their R reading of the conductive liquid between the plates.
Measure a DC V supply and then  measure current thru the "water cap" , if current passes thru it , then its not a capacitor and theres no dielectric.
Gas formation is directly related to R and DC.
What kindve cap is that... liquid Rheostat , water Resistor , Solion ...

Energy dissipation occurs only in the resistive part of a circuit , since inductors and caps merely store and release energy.

R doesnt go away. R consumes power , X does not.

Most people dont have access to a Megger meter , its an insulation tester that sends a HV bolt thru a circuit, if theres leakage or short to earth or between phases the meter lets you know.

"Water cap" doesnt pass that test ,its over kill but still suitable test.

Meyers presentation is based on a parallel LC circuit, its an Antiresonant circuit with a rejection frequency f = 1 / 2 pi (sq rt LC ) , its a filter , radio ,electronics + aerial traps use them.
Series LC has a resonance freq f = 1 / 2 pi (sq rt LC ) , its a filter , radio ,electronics + industrial switchboards use them.

The Horvath patent / presentation has a non functional circuit to throw people off , Meyers and Puharich patents are no different

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/PatE12.pdf

The permittivity of PURE WATER is 80.. all other forms of water are not used as a dielectric because they are poor insulators and so they are not included on the permittivity scale.

Poor insulator = good conductor

[Torana]

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capcyl.html

Alex Petty 2010
OD=.75"  iD=.667 =(19.05mm, 16.9418mm)  radius =.0084709 METRE
OD=.5"    iD=.42" =(12.7mm,   10.668mm)          r =.00635     M
Length= .250 M
gap=  .0021209 M
1 dry =48pf       78.54 wet =3.79nf      80 wet =3.86nf

JL Naudin 2008
OD= 33mm   iD= 30mm         r=.015 M
OD= 25mm   iD= x               r=.0125 M
Length= .250 M
gap= .0025
1 dry =76pf       78.54 wet= 5.99nf    80 wet =6.1nf

Dave Lawton 2006
OD= 1"    iD=7/8"   =(25.4mm,  22.225mm)     r= .0111125 M
OD=3/4"  iD= x      =(19.05mm, x   )              r= .009525 M
Length =5"           =127mm
gap= 1/16"           =.0015875 M
1 dry  =45.8pf      78.54 wet =3.599nf    80 wet =3.666

Scott Crampton   ..
OD= .75"   iD=.5944"     =(19.05mm,  15.1mm)     r=.00755 M
OD= .5"    iD= x            =12.7mm                      r=.00635 M
Length= .450 M
gap= .0012 M
1 dry  =144pf    78.54  wet= 11.35nf    80 wet= 11.57nf

PARALLEL PLATES
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/pplate.html

Stan Meyers 1990

OD= .5", Length =5"  =.0127 M ,  .127 M .  .0127 x .127 x pi = .0050670748 M  AREA
OD= .75" ,Length =4"  =..01905 M ,  .1016 M
       .01905 - .003175 = .015875 M ,  (minus wall thickness)
       .015875 x .1016 x pi = .0050670748 M  AREA 
gap = 1/16"  = .0015875 M
C = ?  ..at least have a GO..

All calculations are based on the measurements provided by Petty, Naudin, Lawton ,Crampton, Meyers and Hyperphysics calculator.
The coax formula is for 2 conductors of the same length only.
Ravi Raju and others used unequal or random length.
Stans pipes have equal surface areas and can only be calculated using parallel plate formula not coax.
Once C is calculated it can be compared to Actual meter measurements to try and support the theory.
IF the C formula and meter dont match up or anywhere near  , ...either the formula is wrong or the meters wrong or the calculators wrong or theres human error or.. the permittivity of the "Dielectric" is shot.
These calculations are ONLY as accurate as the permitttivity of the Dielectric, IF that is false then the entire concept is false.

[Torana]

Stans capacitor: ONLY as accurrate as the permittivity ......... (pure water )
1 = 28pf  , 78.54 = 2.219nf ,  80 = 2.26nf ,  80.37 = 2.27nf  , 81 = 2.28nf   .

Inorganic chemistry :   decomposition potential of water =  1.229 v DC
EE / Physics   : Dielectric breakdown voltage of Pure water = 30MV per metre

Youtube has a mountain of examples showing decomposition of water , none of break down.

The 20/20 test = if you see bubbles of gas , then it is decomposition and it is NOT a capacitor or any example of dielectric breakdown.

A capacitor is an open circuit to steady current ,DC or a short to High frequency.
Xc = 1  / ( 2 pi f c )  ohms  , the higher the freq ,the less the opposition .

It is a personal choice for anyone to call or name their construction a "water capacitor " but there is very little evidence to fall back on , to support it .

Pure water is the only option going  , natural forms of water are not dielectrics.
Pure water is not naturally occurring , its a manufactured , processed product with parameters and grades and also trade marked .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_water   =  Milli Q by Millipore corporation

ANYONE building a "water cap" has the option of calculating the predicted capacitance and then a digital capacitance measurement.
Theres the old saying  "measure twice and cut once "
If theres 2 measurements .... which one ?   either , neither , double check or abandon  .

NO permittivity =   no dielectric  =  no capacitance   =  no reactance  .

Quote..." no dielectric breakdown ..."  suggests  no dielectric  =  no capacitor .

gas production indicates conduction ,  = resistance

poor insulator = good conductor .

pos electrode , neg electrode , Electrodes  , suggest an electrolytic cell NOT a capacitor .
Aaron Murakami obviously abandoned and deleted any info relating to his "water cap" project .
He was using tap water which straight away narrows it down to pulsed electrolysis / decomposition.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_water_bridge    HV bonding , deionised water                                                                                                                                                                                                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_thread_experiment                                                                                                                                                                                                http://www.niell.org/exploding.html    Power dissipation thru water as a LOAD resistor                                                                                                                                                                                                                               http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/sodium.html    ionic solution                                                                                                                                                                                                                          http://www.jossresearch.org/tjiirrs/015c.html    Water capacitor using pure water                                                                                                                   

[minde4000]

@Torana

Quite a few statements of yours I don't agree upon.

First: DIELECTRIC is not the same as INSULATOR. Dont get confused.

Water is quite a strong dielectric ~78 value BUT tap water is poor ohmic insulator.
Polyetylene is poor dielectric 2-6 value BUT strong ohmic insulator.

Only by applying ohmic insulator on water capacitor tube surfaces and preventing amp flow water capacitive properties will jump out to daylight because of such a high dielectric value. All you need to do is isolate opposite plates. Tap water is poor ohmic insulator due to all of contaminates in it - however distilled water is quite good ohmic insulator because of missing contaminates.

"...NO permittivity =   no dielectric  =  no capacitance   =  no reactance" = crap

Minde