Captret - Capacitor and Electret

[Groundloop]

@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

[Sprocket]

@Groundloop - Yes I don't deny there seems to be a voltage increase across all of them, but I'm disappointed that it so small an increase - particularly as my first 'confirmation' was with a capacitor that produces 10-30 times more voltage!  I actually got another identical one that seems to produce the same effect - both came from the same computer power-supply - but complicated by the fact that I can't short out the terminals as one of them broke off...

I also now see why your schematic uses so many capacitors!   Regarding the shorting, I must have shorted it 50 or so times and didn't notice any decrease in rate of voltage increase - but that was with the 'odd' capacitor...

PS - The problem I have with this and charging batteries is that it takes substantial current for this, whereas this seems to be all volts, no current.  Much better stick a solar cell on you batteries, that definitely works...

[gravityblock]

I found the below quote on Keelynet.com while researching electrets for another project from an article titled, Electrets for Power Q&A, http://keelynet.com/electret.htm

I can take a simple circuit that charges 2 capacitors in parallel from a dead battery and then connect the capacitors in series and discharges them back into the battery. Although no new energy is put into the battery some of the batteries potential chemical energy in the battery is converted and the battery will appear to be fully charged. The charging pulses from our controller (or the spark gap-coil) is closer to the double capacitor circuit than it is to a normal battery charger (DC).

Likewise, the captret is more than likely closer to the double capacitor circuit than it is to a normal battery charger.  I hope this is not the case.  Lasersaber video clearly shows the capacitor/captret needs to be fed pulses of energy from a battery in order to keep the LED continuously lit.  If the captret was producing more out than in, then the capacitor wouldn't need pulses of external energy from a battery and the captret would be self-sufficient.  IMO, the captret is not self-sufficient at this stage, thus it's not OU, and any claims of such is misleading. 

The captret needs to be researched though.  I posted information earlier about negative impedance and it appears to have been ignored.  It would be interesting to know how the captret would perform with some of the circuits contained in the negative impedance article.  The information on negative impedance wasn't to try and explain the effect.  The information was posted to improve and take the captret forward and into a new direction in hopes of  making it self-sufficient.  Let's not limit our thinking to only lighting LED's, but instead try to think much bigger.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, while expecting a different result.

GB

[e2matrix]

@Sprocket,

>>They all at most increase to 20-30mV

And that is the point, they ALL self charge. The next test is to try to get rid
of the 20mV. How many times do you need to short out the capacitor to get
it to zero volt. One time? Ten times? Hundreds of times? Is it possible
at all to get to zero volt? So after N times of discharge into a load, you capacitor
still wants to climb to 20mV. Every time you discharge you get Volt times current (V*I).

What I want to find out with my tests is how BIG that number "N" is.

Groundloop.

That is fascinating how fast it recharges on a 330uf cap I've got with both leads shorted (between the 2 leads and the case).  It runs up around 150 mv.  However using a Fluke 87 on the microamp range which goes out to 1/10 of a microamp I'm seeing 0.0 microamps.  Unfortunately even 200 volts x 0.0 microamps is going to still be about zero power and I suspect not very useful unless there is a unique way to extract power?  Maybe a setup like you are proposing with a 1000 caps may show something different if it can be shown to charge a battery to useful power that can be repeatedly used or if it can run a joule thief.  Best of luck in your tests. 

[Groundloop]

@Sprocket,

If there is volt and you short that volt into a load then there is current.
(This current may be very small but it is still current.)
You are correct when you say that it takes substantial current to charge a battery.
But that is not the point. The point is that if I can light ONE led directly (or via
a JT) and the light NEVER goes out, then the capacitor self charge effect is a free
energy device.

@e2matrix,

You need to connect a high Ohm resistor across you wires to measure the constant
current flow out of a self charging capacitor. Try a 10 Mega Ohm. Then calculate
the current flowing. If there was no current then how is it possible to blink a LED
from the effect.

Groundloop.