Quote from: Rick Friedrich
What is also very helpful is that the video is in two parts. The beginning has an old (2000) Energenx promotional video which gives an excellent explination of what the Bedini's company has done and is capable of doing. Several older models are presented and explained. This is followed by more continued dialoge (from the volume 1 in this series) with Tom Bearden who tells us more about John's unique childhood of grinding rocks to make numerous transistors, and later some of his training and early work in the service and audio industry.
to which milehigh replied:
Quote from: milehigh
What? Grinding up rocks to make transistors? I am not an expert here but I am 99.99% certain that this is an impossible thing for a teenager to do. This is equivalent to the John Searle story where as a 16-year-old boy in post-war England where rationing was still enforced he miraculously managed to build several flying saucers.
LMFAO... milehigh doesn't even know you can make your own transistors. yes, milehigh you are not an expert. that is the truth.
epic fail of litmus test, and thus as per the great milehigh and farrahday,
i shall now follow their great logical fallacy and toss out anything else they may have to say as garbage because they failed the litmus... ::)
a picture of the original transistor is included below... it is easily seen that nearly anyone could make one with a small amount of effort and tools.
here is the litmus test i am applying. as described by milehigh and farrahday...
from http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=413.25
Quote from: milehigh
Sometimes in life there are litmus tests for people. I like to use car analogies sometimes. Supposing you just bought a $200K Mercedes Benz and you bring it to the dealership for its first check-up. You speak to the mechanic and by chance you realize that he doesn't know the difference between a metric and an English ratchet set. You would be completely mortified and in shock and not let your car be serviced and never go back there again.
like you not knowing that a transistor can be hand made milehigh?
and here is farrahday's cute response:
Quote from: farrahday
Here, here, MH.
I have to say that I totally concur with this line of thinking. Everything I read is instinctively subjected to my own version of the litmus test, and should obvious errors become apparent, then alarm bells ring and the whole post, paper or article immediately becomes suspect. Like you, I find that once I'm aware of very fundamental errors, then it's very hard to take anything seriously thereafter. I for one simply can't trust the information or claims from a person or persons when they are seemingly not up to speed on the subject they are discussing or totally oblivious to their own blatant blunders. And this is in no way meant to be a reflection on the person as an individual, good and bad don't come into it, just right and wrong.
errors like your repeated use of logical fallacies? fallacies like this litmus test... fallacies like:
Quote from: farradayDon't you see Chet, if I can't provoke him into replicating his claims, then that's because he can't!
::) so, i am barely interested in milehigh's or farrahday's opinions because they unknowingly failed a serious litmus test and thus their credibility is zero for me. ;)
WOW
A steel cage match!!
A battle of the Titans!!
Sweet!!
Chet
Quote from: MileHigh
Hey Guys,
I stand corrected, I just missed that! I remember building a crystal radio, I wonder if they still sell the kits. They supplied a commercial diode with those kits of course, and not a "cat's whisker."
Amazing, I will have to keep it in mind if I am ever stranded on a rocky island and need to build an S.O.S. transmitter! lol
MileHigh
LOL! now he remembers... after ion, loner and some others set him straight?? LOL
i wonder how long he would have argued... anyways it's just another attempt by milehigh at using his pseudoskepticism to assassinate someone's character. i wonder how he thought the transistor was originally invented? does he think a 'genie' showed up at bell labs and crossed her arms and wiggled her nose?
the guy is pathological.
Quote from: MileHigh
Hey Guys,
I stand corrected, I just missed that! I remember building a crystal radio, I wonder if they still sell the kits. They supplied a commercial diode with those kits of course, and not a "cat's whisker."
Amazing, I will have to keep it in mind if I am ever stranded on a rocky island and need to build an S.O.S. transmitter! lol
MileHigh
Am I the only one who finds it absolutely pathetic that there has been no apology from MileHigh to John Bedini?
Quote from: anomdeguerre on November 21, 2010, 07:48:23 AM
Am I the only one who finds it absolutely pathetic that there has been no apology from MileHigh to John Bedini?
Regarding what?
MH has made further postings on Bedini here:
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=341.msg6850#msg6850
.99
Quote from: poynt99 on November 21, 2010, 10:47:59 AM
Regarding what?
i would imagine it would be regarding what milehigh was implying in this statement...
Quote from: milehighWhat? Grinding up rocks to make transistors? I am not an expert here but I am 99.99% certain that this is an impossible thing for a teenager to do. This is equivalent to the John Searle story where as a 16-year-old boy in post-war England where rationing was still enforced he miraculously managed to build several flying saucers.
and what do you thnk he was trying to say with his equivalency sentence? ::) nevermind poynt, it's a rhetorical question, the answer is painfully obvious. as an aside, i must say i do enjoy the liberal doses of hypocrisy in his responses to allcanadian over there at (y)OUR.
@anom
re: an apology from milehigh... don't hold your breath. ;)
OK,
I've notified MH about this thread.
.99
Wilby,
You have failed the same litmus test, again.
Bell Labs did not invent the transistor. They stole the idea and didn't give credit to the original inventor and patent holder.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_transistor
"Legal papers from the Bell Labs patent show that William Shockley and a co-worker at Bell Labs, Gerald Pearson, had built operational versions from Lilienfeld's patents, yet they never referenced this work in any of their later research papers or historical articles."
Quote from: BEP on November 21, 2010, 11:28:23 AM
Wilby,
You have failed the same litmus test, again.
Bell Labs did not invent the transistor. They stole the idea and didn't give credit to the original inventor and patent holder.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_transistor
"Legal papers from the Bell Labs patent show that William Shockley and a co-worker at Bell Labs, Gerald Pearson, had built operational versions from Lilienfeld's patents, yet they never referenced this work in any of their later research papers or historical articles."
again? when was the first time? the litmus test is a logical fallacy BEP... i would hope you comprehend that. furthermore, i'm not doing any of the things milehigh is doing BEP... ::) look at his posts and look at mine. ;) and finally, i didn't claim bell labs invented the transistor... can you quote where i said this? ;)
it's a jest. it's a poke at milehigh (and farraday) and his(her) crazy continued use of logical fallacy while attempting to portray one's self as an expert...
edit: nice try though BEP ;)
second edit: i am curious though, how is it that they both have patents?
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 20, 2010, 10:03:13 AM
a picture of the original transistor is included below...
I was the first to call MH on his query about making transistors using crushed rocks as an ingredient, not to slam him for his words. It was a simple bit of education and a small down payment for education he provides to me. I walk the wild side and he doesn't. Both views are needed. Most times we simply agree to disagree and move on.
My disagreements with Faraday result in much the same. The disagreements with many remain but if you need someone to check your work or theory, there are none better than the majority on that forum.
The first failure of the so-called 'litmus test' was quite awhile ago. It had more to do with the amount of negativity. My litmus test doesn't include grammar and speeling or I would tell myself to shut-up.
As for the patents... I have some opinion but no facts to back them so it is pointless and not my area of interest.
i hope that quote isn't your attempt to show where you allege that i said bell labs invented the transistor... ;)
Quote from: BEP on November 21, 2010, 12:49:30 PM
I was the first to call MH on his query about making transistors using crushed rocks as an ingredient, not to slam him for his words. It was a simple bit of education and a small down payment for education he provides to me. I walk the wild side and he doesn't. Both views are needed. Most times we simply agree to disagree and move on.
yes, i know you called him out, i mentioned it if you recall. i walk on another path, one that follows the philosophy of 'do unto others as they do unto others...'
Quote from: BEP on November 21, 2010, 12:49:30 PM
My disagreements with Faraday result in much the same. The disagreements with many remain but if you need someone to check your work or theory, there are none better than the majority on that forum.
again regarding farrahday i follow the same philosophy as mentioned above. the majority on that forum are great thinkers that embrace logic. however, milehigh and farrah are not among that group.
Quote from: BEP on November 21, 2010, 12:49:30 PM
The first failure of the so-called 'litmus test' was quite awhile ago. It had more to do with the amount of negativity. My litmus test doesn't include grammar and speeling or I would tell myself to shut-up.
yeah well, that's all fine and dandy, but it's milehigh and farrah's litmus that we are talking about here, not
your litmus test... look at milehigh's car mechanic analogy and then substitute EE for mechanic and basic semiconductor history for metric/US spanners. or take farrah's statement and apply it to newton or even to faraday himself... shall we throw out everything they have said because they both had faith in an imaginary godfairy? this is exactly what milehigh and farrahday are doing and it is ludicrous. i could go on, but i think/hope i have made my point.
Quote from: BEP on November 21, 2010, 12:49:30 PM
As for the patents... I have some opinion but no facts to back them so it is pointless and not my area of interest.
ok, thanks. i would be interested in hearing you opine... you do it much better than most.
@WilbyInebriated
I would agree with some of what you have said however I think the most important aspect of the predatory and pathological behavior mentioned above is never fully addressed. The result of the critics action is clear, first people either leave the forums or do not post for fear of personal attacks next the open unhindered debate of the topic of the thread is effectively killed and finally no progress is made. While the motives of these critics may be questionable the result of their actions is not as the result is the same in every case, they effectively kill all open debate of the topic.
Regards
AC
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 20, 2010, 10:03:13 AM
to which milehigh replied:
LMFAO... milehigh doesn't even know you can make your own transistors. yes, milehigh you are not an expert. that is the truth.
epic fail of litmus test, and thus as per the great milehigh and farrahday, i shall now follow their great logical fallacy and toss out anything else they may have to say as garbage because they failed the litmus... ::)
a picture of the original transistor is included below... it is easily seen that nearly anyone could make one with a small amount of effort and tools.
Wilby, you're at it - again? Feel good to shake a tree?
Would you tell us about how you made your own, your first transistor? After all, "nearly anyone can make one with a small amount of efforts and tools".
;D
So, check out the facts, not just the ones you collect while making your "attack strategy". It's still too obvious you cannot deal with the basics of, e.g. electrotechnics, yet you insist to mess with it blindly.
If you think you're qualified, you can instruct us how to build "our own transistors".
And, please, don't use that crystal detector analogy anymore....
You're just full of shite, aren't you?
And, watch out, from too much goggling you can get blind...
Beside your well known and excessively used rhetorical and grammatical skills, you have nothing..
A Don Quixote of a kind...
Quote from: allcanadian on November 21, 2010, 02:18:31 PM
The result of the critics action is clear, first people either leave the forums or do not post for fear of personal attacks next the open unhindered debate of the topic of the thread is effectively killed and finally no progress is made. While the motives of these critics may be questionable the result of their actions is not as the result is the same in every case, they effectively kill all open debate of the topic.
Regards
AC
This doesn't always apply. To me it matters not that there are some opposed to the notion that the TPU might be authentic (as an example), and their expressions of such certainly doesn't deter me from posting my comments and ideas about it. So speaking from my own direct experience, I'm confident in saying that not everyone leaves or stops posting.
Where folks can not reach agreement on a topic, they should mutually concede that their views seem hopelessly opposed, and let each go on their merry way.
It is OK to disagree. In fact it is normal and expected. So what if you do? Let it go and carry on. Consider cutting each other some slack...it won't be the end of the world.
.99
@Poynt99
I would agree completely, there will always be differences in opinions as there should be for a healthy debate. However what I saw was a little different, first posts are attacked with an endless series of critical replies, next the persons credibility is called into question and then personal attacks follow and this pattern is repeated over and over. As I said the motive may not be clear but the result certainly is in my opinion. I do not take any of this too personal but I do find it offensive when I see these personal attacks on other people who are not always present to defend themselves.
I should note that I have a pattern of behavior as well, I like to criticize people who I think criticize others without justification which tends to put me at odds with many people, the critics critic, lol. Something else I find rather odd is that most rational people will accept criticism to some extent however in most every case the critic finds it offensive, that is they will not tolerate the very thing they do to everyone else.
Regards
AC
milehigh made a post i would like to respond to.
Quote from: milehigh
On the other hand, supposing that I stated that "transistors are voltage amplifiers" as fact. This is a statement about transistor technology that is wrong because transistors are devices that amplify current, not voltage. We are not talking historical trivia anymore. That would indeed be a litmus test failure because it would demonstrate that I didn't understand how transistors work.
how can you understand how a transistor works without understanding how they are made? and don't they cover that in second year EE classes? "Introduction to Semiconductor Materials & Devices" wasn't it? from your rebut to rick frederick http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=341.msg6511#msg6511
Quote from: milehigh
So, using the phraseology of inimitable Wilby Inebriated, it's a logical fallacy for Wilby to suggest that I failed the litmus test because I did not know a relatively obscure piece of historical trivia about transistors.
no, ::) it's a logical fallacy for wilby to suggest you failed your litmus test because your litmus test is a logical fallacy in and of itself. learn what a logical fallacy is for crying out loud.
Quote from: milehigh
As far as apologizing to John Bedini goes, in reviewing my posting you can summarize what I said as "It makes no sense at all to think that you can grind up rocks to make transistors." It's actually a rebuttal to a story told by Tom Bearden that I thought was a tall tale. My comments we never addressed to John Bedini directly and I think that it's fair to say that even die-hard believers in free energy would question some of the comments of Tom Bearden.
However, I will repeat that I admitted my ignorance and in that sense I retract my statements directed at Tom Bearden about this issue, and by extension I retract my statements that were ultimately about John Bedini.
As a final thought for Bedini fans to contemplate, it's about central issue that the whole Bedini motor concept is based on. Bedini alleges that coils discharge "radiant energy" and there is something "special" about this "form of energy." The simple fact is that Bedini is not giving you the straight goods about what happens when an inductor discharges. If you are really serious about your Bedini motors you should take it upon yourselves to research how an inductor works in general, and specifically how a discharging inductor works. You can read in the Bedini threads on this web site, or open up some electronics, electrical engineering, or physics books, do research online, and so on. Gather information from at least five "conventional" sources and work on understanding and mastering what the hell is really going on when an inductor stores energy supplied to it by an external power source and then discharges that stored energy. Assuming that you have mastered that, then go back and read through and watch material from John Bedini himself and you just might have a much different perspective on the man and what he says. I am not trying to tell anybody what to think, rather, I am suggesting that you do the research yourselves.
MileHigh
well i'll be a blue nosed gopher... atta boy milehigh.
@BEP try a cogent argument instead of logical fallacy.
@ION regarding my posting anything technical. try a cogent argument instead of logical fallacies.
that being said, the proof of the pudding is in the eating... right spinner? and i have offered no OU pudding to the public, just like yourselves.
edit: thanks for the heads up poynt.
another epic fail by milehigh...
Quote from: milehighEinstein's theories have been proven. They have put an atomic clock in a jet plane and found that it lost time relative to a stationary atomic clock on the Earth. What astronomers once thought were anomalies in the observed orbits of planets and observations of other objects in the Universe turned out to not be anomalies once they factored in relativistic effects and the curvature of space due to the presence of very large masses.
einstein's theories have
not been proven, there are still outstanding refutations. furthermore, such evidences (putting an atomic clock into a jet plane) do not constitute proof. even a fifth grader knows this... ::)
now to the second part of his paragraph. ok, milehigh, i'll bite. exactly what anomalies in precisely which planet's orbit... and exactly what very large masses?
Quote from: WilbyInebriated on December 27, 2010, 09:30:29 PM
another epic fail by milehigh...
einstein's theories have not been proven, there are still outstanding refutations. furthermore, such evidences (putting an atomic clock into a jet plane) do not constitute proof. even a fifth grader knows this... ::)
now to the second part of his paragraph. ok, milehigh, i'll bite. exactly what anomalies in precisely which planet's orbit... and exactly what very large masses?
that would be mercury and the sun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Perihelion_precession_of_Mercury
Like I said, that discussion is ridiculous. Go read the nonsense called Einstein's "theory" of relativity before ever bothering to talk about it. Any person of medium intelligence will find out (with astonishment, of course, in view of the desperate propaganda) that this cannot be a theory. I say "this" because whatever that nonsense is, it fails in the very first two paragraphs of the so-called special theory making the general obviously erroneous. A gibberish such as the "theory" in question is based on internal contradictions. This is unbelievable and unheard of in the mainstream science. Theories have been proven wrong but they have never been internally contradictory. Such stupidity as the "theory" in question is unknown in the whole history of science. It's a shame and degrades the statute of science. That travesty of science should be removed at once in its entirety from the body of science without the need to be replaced by anything, the way weed is removed from a wheat field, if contemporary science needs to preserve any integrity at all.
Oh, and, by the way, any talk of experiments connected with this self-contradictory nonsense is meaningless. Anybody claiming there is experimental evidence confirming it is either a shameless liar or has no clue whatsoever.
Quote from: fritznien on December 27, 2010, 10:33:05 PM
that would be mercury and the sun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tests_of_general_relativity#Perihelion_precession_of_Mercury
obviously... ::) now, is your name milehigh? no? then stfu.
Quote from: anomdeguerre on November 21, 2010, 07:48:23 AM
Am I the only one who finds it absolutely pathetic that there has been no apology from MileHigh to John Bedini?
LOL Not at all. I'm inclined to find MileHigh somewhat pathetic in most any context. Welcome to the forum anomdeguerre. I 'think' I sent you a personal message but am not entirely sure.
Regards,
Rosemary