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In the late 1950's while disassembling old radio speakers I discovered a pole piece
that was not attracted to it's AlNiCo magnet.  I don't believe it was a defect, or a
false memory because, when the material was placed between the magnet and a steel
washer it acted like a magnetic funnel, sticking the three pieces together.

According to Orthodox Magnetic Theory   S = C(P-1)
and it's not possible for a material to have Permeability greater than one and
not be magnetized (Susceptibility) when in a field.    (attracted to the magnet) 

Any information concerning this would be greatly appreciated.

A $500 reward is offered for a piece with the property or the composition of it's alloy.
 

Where in the speaker the Pole Piece resides

Was this something you found in several old speakers or was it just in one?  Have you tried looking on ebay or other antique sources for old radio's that might have such a speaker?  You might also try some of the audiophile forums.  You might even find an old speaker designer around.  Good luck in your search and I'd be interested in what you find. 

just a though, could it have been a grain oriented piece?

Are you sure it is an alloy and not graphite?

>Was this something you found in several old speakers or was it just in one?
just one

>Have you tried looking on ebay or other antique sources for old radio's that >might have such a speaker?

Yes but I don't know how to do a wanted ad on EBAY.

>You might also try some of the audiophile forums. 

Tried but no luck yet.

>You might even find an old speaker designer around.

If they knew of the alloy that would be ideal.

Good luck in your search and I'd be interested in what you find.

All I've found so far is current magnetic theory is seriously flawed.

Field theories were invalidated by Michelsonâ€"Morley, why they're still teaching this crap is beyond me.  What works in the microcosm isn't necessarily going to work in the macrocosm!  I am beginning to believe this alloy is the key and it's been deliberately suppressed.

I doubt it was a sintered material. It looked like aluminum but heavier though lighter than steel.

I know there used to be a way to do a 'wanted ad' on ebay but not sure if that is still around as I don't think it got used much.  Besides if you have a want ad there people are likely to think they can ask a lot more for something.  I would just do a search on 'old speaker' or 'vintage speaker'.  I just ran a search for 'old speaker' and got 741 hits.  It might take a while going through them but if you know what you are looking for you might get a nice deal on it.  I go by the belief that if it's not on ebay it probably doesn't exist anymore.  It might take a couple months of daily checking but it seems everything shows up there eventually.   

Reward increased to $1000

The reason I'm looking for a sample of this alloy should be obvious to over unity enthusiasts. When materials with permeability greater than one are placed between magnetic objects the force between them increases.

Start looking for this alloy!  As soon as I get a sample I'll have it analyzed and publish the composition.  The reward is increased to $2000.  There were hundreds of radio companies, one of them discovered the alloy and used it to increase the frequency response of their speakers. Old speakers need to be rebuilt to restore old radios, it would be easy to test the pole piece at that time.  Scrap speakers are easy to take apart. Test the pole piece, if it's not attracted to a magnet yet conducts the magnetic field you've got 2K, plus the composition of the alloy needed to make a magnetic motor.

A magnetic motor probably won't be able to harness a lot of energy, but it will prove the concept. The energy comes from heat. Permeability is a vector not a scalar, and so is temperature in permeable objects. The space between atoms in permeable materials is affected by magnetic fields and some of the the thermal energy ends up in the field, that's the energy the magnetic motor harvests.

Good luck       

Is this what you are looking for?

"The constant leakage flux from the speaker would affect the scanning beam and distort the picture as well as the colors, etc. The best shielding is a canister or pot-shaped cover made of a high permeability metal called mu metal. It is basically a short circuit to the leakage flux so the flux can't get through the mu metal and radiate into the surrounding air. What happens is that the leakage flux tries to magnetize the mu metal, the mu metal generates a magnetic field of its own that resists the leakage flux. All of the magnetism stays within the mu metal so it isn't radiated. The foregoing was a simple explanation of how all magnetic shielding works."

Can't be mu metal.It should not be attracted to magnet.For me it looks like something with high permeability but which forbid closing of field lines around it. Is there a possibility that the effect lies in shape not much in alloy composition ?!

Oldspeaker.pdf shows it's shape.  I don't think the alloy was highly permeable but it must have been significantly greater than the permeability of air for the speaker to work.  Orthodox magnetic theory says magnetizability equals permeability times a constant, yet a sample of permalloy claimed to be a hundred times more permeable than cold rolled steel has half CRS's attraction.  It makes no sense to me.     

Babbit like that used in model T motors as bearing material,  perhaps or even more feasible is bismuth.  With a PMH we have magnetized ordinary aluminum, paper, string, wood,  etc.  PMH= permanent magnetic holder.  We simply place the item to be magnetized between the magnet and the bar that is normally used to cover the magnet between uses.

Hi G-Motion.

do you remember what the speaker came out of? some old cars made in that era may still hold them installed, most old car collectors have the old speakers rebuilt to work again.

maybe this direction will give you better luck in finding one, maybe in an old wrecking yard with that vintage of car models still present.

good luck.
Jerry 8)

Car radios weren't common then and the piece I had didn't come from one. I don't think it came from a floor model, they usually had large speakers with electro magnets, so it must have come from a desk top model. 

The reward for the non magnetizable pole piece is increased to $2500. 

It could have been a manufacturing defect, it didn't need to be highly permeable.  I checked cold rolled steel, mu metal and superpermalloy and find it strange that CRS with P around 1K has the strongest attraction and super A with P 200 times greater the least.  This contradicts the formula P = M*C in text books.  If a material with P > 1 could be moved between poles using less energy than could be harvested from the motion of the poles, overunity would have been achieved. 

The question, where would the energy be coming from?   Anyone seriously considering overunity has to answer that question before starting.  It is well established energy can't be created or destroyed only converted.  The problem is those working on overunity don't know science and those who know science know overunity is impossible, so nothing significant is getting done.

Magnetic fields just like gravitational ones have energy.  When a permeable material is moved into a magnetic field, the field shrinks and gives up energy.  Some in the form of M*V^2 (velocity of the material) some in the form of heat.   When atoms in metals are aligned by magnetic fields, electron free space is reduced. The majority of thermal energy in  conductors is in the velocity of electrons, when electron free space is reduced it increases their velocity (temperature) just as happens in a cylinder when the piston moves up.

The only way a magnetic motor can work is by harvesting some other form of energy.

Of the four ways to harvest thermal energy I'm considering, magnetism is the weakest.  I suspect the best a single stage could convert would be less than a micro watt. If I'm right, high vacuum, frictionless bearings, perfectly balanced and the right materials will be necessary.

The reward for the non magnetizable pole piece is increased to $2500. 

It could have been a manufacturing defect, it didn't need to be highly permeable.  I checked cold rolled steel, mu metal and superpermalloy and find it strange that CRS with P around 1K has the strongest attraction and super A with P 200 times greater the least.  This contradicts the formula P = M*C in text books.  If a material with P > 1 could be moved between poles using less energy than could be harvested from the motion of the poles, overunity would have been achieved. 

The question, where would the energy be coming from?   Anyone seriously considering overunity has to answer that question before starting.  It is well established energy can't be created or destroyed only converted.  The problem is those working on overunity don't know science and those who know science know overunity is impossible, so nothing significant is getting done.

Magnetic fields just like gravitational ones have energy.  When a permeable material is moved into a magnetic field, the field shrinks and gives up energy.  Some in the form of M*V^2 (velocity of the material) some in the form of heat.   When atoms in metals are aligned by magnetic fields, electron free space is reduced. The majority of thermal energy in  conductors is in the velocity of electrons, when electron free space is reduced it increases their velocity (temperature) just as happens in a cylinder when the piston moves up.

The only way a magnetic motor can work is by harvesting some other form of energy.

Of the four ways to harvest thermal energy I'm considering, magnetism is the weakest.  I suspect the best a single stage could convert would be less than a micro watt. If I'm right, high vacuum, frictionless bearings, perfectly balanced and the right materials will be necessary.

It's just aluminum, whats the big deal ?

Aluminum has been used in the flux path of speakers for years,
it is used BECAUSE it will not retain a polarity, and dampens...

Have you looked at Bismuth?  It's easy to get from melting down shotgun shell pellets (in the ones that have changed from lead to bismuth).  Bismuth is diamagnetic and is actually repelled from a magnet instead of attracted to it.  So that may be part of the formula. 

Hey G

Was working on a 57 vet that had a bad speaker that we replaced with a more modern one. Im not even sure if the old one was the original.

But it had the framework of the speaker magnet that you show in the pdf. The magnet has a pole piece attached to the magnet, right in the gap as you show, but it is thin, 1/6 of an inch, roughly the thickness of the gap plate.

It took me some time to get the U frame and gap plate separated(welded)

The magnet and the pole piece have what seems to be copper plating on them. 

Havnt separated the mag from the plate yet.

Mags

In my above post, that speaker is probably 50's - 60's, dunno

A lot of older speakers use coils as the pole magnets.

These ebay items were found with the search " vintage speakers " 2800 items  Good pics. ;] Scroll down on some, or just below the title pic, enlarge to see.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Old-Antique-Vintage-RCA-Philco-Speakers-Parts-/280772379040?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item415f5681a0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/old-58-MAGNAVOX-10-AlNiCo-Instrument-Speaker-PAIR-tube-guitar-amplifier-P10-/170730571032?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c055c518

A very interesting 30's speaker by Jensen  ;]
http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-1930s-Jensen-PM-1-8-speaker-model-2103-/250930743586?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a6ca34922



Mags

I fell now that I have come back and re-read the whole thread
that I may have seemed a bit trite in my response to you.

I responded because I know that what you assert is true,
but the magic isn't that spectacular in retrospect really.

Before I became a marine electronics technician I had the wonder of
designing upper-frequency electrostatic tweeter assemblies by trade,
and the "other" team had to fill in the lower freq. end of the spectrum.

they did this by response-tailored core materials in the flux path

One of the things they learned early on, and you can easily test this,
is that linear motors basically suck at flat audio reproduction.

You already know this judging your comments.

But the circular flux path that the magnet contributed,
was easily damped via aluminum coated in copper.

Just like dropping a magnet down a copper tube,
the induced emf into the copper tubing during drop,
was reciprocated by a slightly less than 100% BEMF.

you will note upon testing that an aluminum tube will exert
the same effect, albeit a 12.6% difference in overall effect.

So I aside that to tell you of modern stuff that is relevant NOW !

You may very well be onto something lost to time.

Oh, and let me say this right up front,
if I answer your question as asked,
I DON'T want your money at all !

I'm retired and poor,
but that is just wrong...

Put it towards a methodological review of a core,
one that exibites the terms you exert above.

Any master maschinest worth his's/her weight in salt,
can recommend a reputable alloy spet to access this,
and grade into into a catagory and alloy number.

It (I'm near sure) will be less than your "Prize" value anyway to do this ...

But I can assure you that what your dealing with is a specific aluminum alloy,
that will be plated with an external containing barrier of another metal for sure.
(And to be clear, aluminum requires an interstificial metal to be plated with copper)

I hope this helps your awsome quest to difine the unknown.

You've got the right idea.  :)

And MaglLuvin's input is always worth It's salt for the record...

You might be interested in this?:

http://www.magneticenergy.org.uk/TiAlCo-B%20Metal.htm (http://www.magneticenergy.org.uk/TiAlCo-B%20Metal.htm)

Other stuff
http://www.magneticenergy.org.uk/ (http://www.magneticenergy.org.uk/)

It was piece of plastic. When next to magnet it would not be attracted, but when placed in-between magnet and metal the attraction of metal and magnet stuck the plastic wiring together with and within the joined force. How to get money here?