This idea may be foolish, but it just came to me on a crazy whim. I am throwing it out there for opinions and ideas, or simply to tell me why this won't work.
We all know that all our electrical connections go from high potential to low, and that every building has a rod in the earth that is the grounding rod. I was pondering what happens to the electrical energy that goes to ground? Is it just dissipated as heat, or does the electrical potential simply become absorbed into the total net charge of the planet Earth.
Is the electrical energy absorbed into the ground building up over time and dissipating into the earth; and if that energy still exists in the earth, can it be retapped and used again?
My thought was that the upper layers of the earth where all these grounding rods are sitting is retaining the electrical charges, and that by tapping from an upper level of the earth, close to the surface, and then connecting to a lower (much deeper) grounding rod that is insulated over its entire length except at its very (underground) tip, that an electrical potential would exist that could be tapped?
Maybe the earth simply doesn't have an electrical charge, I don't know; but if you go down very deep, say a hundred feet or deeper, you pass layers of rock and groundwater and these act as insulating layers from above. Giving a deeper and insulated ground that can be used to give flow to electrical discharges closer to the surface of the earth.
Thanks for taking the time to read this post. I value your opinions on this.
RR2
Maybe ask an oil well driller. Ask them if they have experienced something akin to a 'static' shock from the drilling equipment.
I do understand your thinking RR2, the charge has to go somewhere.
i can help with that.@ RR2 Yes indeed there is a DC potential. it is enough to cause electrolysis issues for gas lines. do some google searching you'll find some articles on the subject. :) I never tried to light a LED, maybe i need to. no static shock or potential buildup that you can feel or anything like that. but its there and over time it does cause issues.
Quote from: bourne on February 02, 2011, 05:44:43 PM
Maybe ask an oil well driller. Ask them if they have experienced something akin to a 'static' shock from the drilling equipment.
I do understand your thinking RR2, the charge has to go somewhere.
The power distribution system in two countries are different,
the US has an unbalance ground referenced system and Great
Britain has a balance ungrounded system. But just because
the US has a ground referenced system doesn't mean you
want power currents to flow there. I was looking at HV undersea
DC cables. South Korea has one and they specify in the
document the size of a fenced in "electrode lagoon" at each end for
the ground referencing the system. So power can flow in the ground.
But it's usually reserved for fault currents. Note that power levels are
going to drop with 1/2Radius Squared like EMF radio signals. So the
power signal would drop off in magnitude in an equivalent fashion
to the transmission signal of a powerful radio/TV station.
It gets to microvolt levels before very long. This is consistent with
the threat of lightning current being intercepted from the ground -
not all that great.
If earth has a charge it has to relative to something and that
something is the Sun. Lightning storms and solar ions cause
"Sky return Currents" which can be intercepted to generate electricity
but the ground really is a neutral reference in most cases.
:S:MarkSCoffman
QuoteIf earth has a charge it has to relative to something and that
something is the Sun
And the Cosmos and yes the Earth has charge. Like Mark said the ground is used for a fault. A circuit bypass if you will. Thats the only time it carrys current by standard electrical distribution. A Hot wire and Neutral are the current carriers with the neutral being the return completing the circuit.
http://www.xearththeory.com/introdis_earth_electromagnetic_coil_transformers_step_up_down.html
The siphoning technology can be applied with this thread. ;D
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I appreciate no one insulting me on the idea; it can get pretty rough on this site.
@Borne, I did some searching on potential electrical dangers from drilling the oil well. The usual static dangers are evident, but I couldn't find anything specifically similar to this idea. Unfortunately I don't know any oil rig workers (I live in Indiana, USA); but I will keep looking.
@Moab, I am still looking for a good link on this. If you happen to have a link please post it. There were a few "galvanic" issues that were mentioned, but not like this. I appreciate your ideas.
@Mark, I would expect a quick dropoff of power, but I am still interested in the potential between the surface and deep below. You are probably right, it could amount to minuscule potential. I don't know. Just throwing out ideas, and I appreciate the time you took to answer. You too Iota.
@ Tito, I smiled when I saw you post. I guess it does look like a siphon, I didn't see it that way. Maybe that's a good reason why it might work.
I would like to do a cheap, quick test to determine viability on this. When I get info I will post. Still, I am open to anyone's ideas and comments.
Thanks for your interest,
RR2
US 1540998
http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/capacitorcharger.htm
http://www.iw5edi.com/ham-radio/?how-to-make-a-high-power-4-1-balun,156
http://www.l-3com.com/edd/products_traveling_wave_tube.htm
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci284003,00.html
http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/index.php?title=Physical_Chemistry/Kinetics/Rate_Laws/Gas_Phase_Kinetics/Mean_Free_Path&bc=0
http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/transmission.cfm
http://books.google.com/books?id=kQsAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=when+was+iron+used+conducting+wire&source=bl&ots=H7sV36GbUm&sig=xfEB4ze1acT0RnBjcLpO3WvFEEE&hl=en&ei=QtZGTYvgEMO78gba2ri1DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&sqi=2&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=when%20was%20iron%20used%20conducting%20wire&f=false
Make of it what you will,or not.
Hi :D
this is a very interesting topic.
the air is generally considered + and the Ground -
look at these for interest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_current
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_%28electricity%29
http://www.springerlink.com/content/98c07b4ce70e4c48/
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=898&page=206
good luck and let us know what u find
Telluric42
"Earth Energy and Vocal Radio" Nathan Stubblefield
The scientific historian methodically searches out catalogues of forgotten phenomena by thorough examination of old periodicals, texts, and patent files. The retrieval of old and forgotten observations, discoveries, scientific anecdotal records, and rare natural phenomena provide the intellectual dimension desperately needed by modern researchers who work in a vacuum of dogma.
Those who are familiar with the lure of scientific archives understand very well that more potential technology lies dormant than is currently addressed, discussed, or implemented. Much of modern scientific research is the weak echo of work already completed within the last century. The notion of drawing up electrical power from the ground sounds incredibly fanciful to conventional scientists, but numerous patents support the claim. A number of retrieved patents list compact batteries, which can operate small appliances by drawing up ground electricity. Others describe methods whereby enough usable electrical power may be drawn out of the ground itself for industrial use. The existence of these devices is concrete, documented in several unsuspected and unstudied patents.
"Earth batteries" have been detailed in a previous article. Their history can be traced back to experiments performed by Luigi Galvani on copper plates in deep stone water wells. Currents derived through these gave Galvani and his assistants "shivering thrills and joyous shocks". Thereafter, a certain Mr. Kemp in Edinburgh (1828) worked with earth batteries, so that we know these designs were already being seriously studied. They demonstrate the validity of very anciently held beliefs concerning the generative vitality of earth itself.
Several of these devices were employed to power telegraphic systems (Bain), clocks (Drawbaugh), doorbells (Snow), and telephones (Meucci, Strong, Brown, Tompkins, Lockwood). Earth batteries are an unusual lost scientific entry having immense significance. Developed extensively during Victorian times, the earth batteries evidenced a unique and forgotten phenomena by which it was possible to actually "draw out" electricity from the ground. The most notable earth battery patent, however, is one, which operated arc lamps by drawing "a constant electromotive force of commercial value" directly from the ground. In addition to this remarkable claim, a vocal radio broadcast system ... through the ground.
continued
http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/nathan-s.htm
Check out my videos on Youtube where I began lighting 1, then 6 then 200, then 400 leds from the telluric currents in the earth....for free. This information about energy in the earth has been known since when Stubblefield ran the telephone system of Murry Kentucky and heated and lit his farm and house using energy from the earth. This was in the late 1800's.
Now, that was before the power grid, and I have often also wondered
what happens to those electrons that are dumped into the ground. They must go somewhere.
Bill
Quote from: brantc on February 03, 2011, 10:48:24 PM
...
The retrieval of old and forgotten observations, discoveries, scientific anecdotal records, and rare natural phenomena provide the intellectual dimension desperately needed by modern researchers who work in a vacuum of dogma.
...
Modern researchers don't need that. It is for those believing that they would need it, to prove the utility of old stuff (which generally was dismissed for good reasons by previous scientists).
I hate when links are posted long horizontally and force me to to scroll to the right to read them.Does anyone know how to fix that?
On this subject, I appreciate the links everyone. Thanks Doug1, Telluric, and brantc. There is plenty to read, but one interesting tidbit was the blurb about thick electrical cables buried in the roots of trees. I pondered this, and yes, I have looked at your previous work a bit Bill. I am impressed by the increase in the output of your work, but what I would really like is to get away from the LEDs and graduate to pulling some real power from the ground. This may mean hooking into large capacitors where they can constantly charge up and draw enough energy to run a home. Ambitious, I know, but it is the only way this subject could be of any use; and the picture of those thick cables buried in the ground keep coming to my mind. Maybe the only reason they were in the trees was because it was an easy way to get them deeper into the ground. The roots are already there, and in old trees they run deep, making it easier to run a cable deep. This is just my mind wandering on the subject. I could be totally off base.
The information also mentioned he ran arc-lamps. I wonder how much draw and arc-lamp from the 1800's required ? Certainly more than a hundred LEDs I am sure. Also mentioned was that the power increased over time. Like a slowly gaining momentum, similar to a newly dug artesian well that flows faster over time.
So what is the easiest way to get an electrical cable down deep into the ground so only its very tip is exposed? Maybe in the root of an old tree?
RR:
I agree with what you have posted. Hey, if you want to do a quick, easy experiment that will only take a few minutes, it will blow your mind. Take your DMM outside and set it to read in the 20 volt range. Find a decent sized tree and stab your neg. lead into the tree and then push the positive lead into the earth as far from the tree as your leads will let you. You will read real voltage. I am serious.
The funny thing about this is that the "ground" is positive!!!! I found this out about 3 years ago and I still can't explain it.
This fast experiment will show you that there is energy in the ground.
Now, to pull amps out of the ground will take methods other than what I have played with but, I agree with you that the energy is there for the taking.
What about an old water well pipe that goes down about 200 feet of so? That might be a cheap, fast, easy way to at least test your theory.
Bill
You will need to build your own caps to store the charge. Off the shelf products are typically constructed to a window of commerce
which is good for the economy of those who make and sell them.
The plausen file if you read it describes the use of chokes and caps as if they are batteries combining static and magnetic properties.What he does not mention is bimetal conductors aka the skilled in the art of.
For who ever knows who to blow. It should be stated somewhere on this site that you can stretch the text window down to write at a greater length.So we dont have to have everything stretched left to right beyond anyones screen size. When you post,you will see a tiny gray rectangle bottom center of the text window. Click on it holding the key down and pull it down by moving your mouse down. the text window will expand downward. A flip coloring book instruction manual may be required for the engineering types.
Parametric oscillator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parametric_oscillator
Read all of it.
A lot of people will tell others there is no useful amount of power or that it too hard to convert it. No one denies the power of a wimhurst generator which collects static. I see no vids of people sticking their tungs between the spark gap saying"see it's not worthy of anything".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxA7xtU_XA
Any prime mover which requires input from a human to maintain motion will never be free but you can certainly learn how the equipment works that way then tie it to something a bit bigger which is free and constant. Conversion of that potential is not used much these days so you have to look back in hystory when it was in use.
We live on a magnetic capacitor in motion.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 04, 2011, 07:48:06 AM
...What about an old water well pipe that goes down about 200 feet of so? That might be a cheap, fast, easy way to at least test your theory.
Bill
Hello Bill, an old water pipe won't work (at least I don't think so) because I
believe it would need to be insulated from the ground, except at the very
(deepest) tip. That way only the deepest part is tapped for a potential
difference.
Quote from: ResinRat2 on February 04, 2011, 04:17:15 PM
Hello Bill, an old water pipe won't work (at least I don't think so) because I
believe it would need to be insulated from the ground, except at the very
(deepest) tip. That way only the deepest part is tapped for a potential
difference.
I meant to drop your wire down the pipe. You could have a coil of un-insulated wire at the bottom end of it and then, fill in the bottom of the pipe with some dirt...anyway, that is what I had pictured. It would then be insulated all the way to the top and you could check for a potential difference.
Possibly another way to test might be to go to a very deep body of water and toss your weighted wire over the side. You could easily get down about 500 feet or so. I am not sure what the water might add or detract from the equation and I don't know how you could get it to stab into the bottom off the top of my head but...oh well....just brain storming.
Bill
Hello Bill,
I live in a subdivision about 12 miles from Chicago. No water well pipes on my property; but maybe
someone else reading this can give that a try. Thanks for making that suggestion.
Dave (RR2)
Possible solution:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1970-07-01/How-To-Drive-A-Well.aspx
I need to check local laws, obtain necessary permits, equipment, etc., etc.
All to drill a hole in the ground. :P
Here is another way: http://www.howtodrillawell.com/
Dave (RR2)
QuoteAll to drill a hole in the ground.
If its just a pipe in the ground without a well head you may not need a permit. The reason for permits is water management needs to know whos tapped into the aquifer. If your not putting a pump on it I would just do it. Dont know of any code or law that prohibits you from driving a pipe into the ground.
I have about a 140 foot in ground pump. Its 1 inch galvanized. From a short 6 inch copper pipe to the galvanized pipe I get .39 volts with my good meter.
Hello IotaYodi,
Your deep pipe would need to be insulated from the ground surface all the way to near the bottom of the
pipe. That way there would be no electrical connection to the ground and the surface except at the very
bottom area of your pipe. That would mean both inside and outside the pipe is insulated. Also, both pipes
would need to be the same metal so no galvanic reaction is taking place. Between the copper and the gal-
vanized pipe you will get a galvanic reaction. I believe that is what you are seeing for voltage.
Thanks for trying though. This project is not as simple as I thought it would be. I appreciate your input.
Dave (RR2)
QuoteAlso, both pipes
would need to be the same metal so no galvanic reaction is taking place. Between the copper and the galvanized pipe you will get a galvanic reaction. I believe that is what you are seeing for voltage.
That is correct. My galvanized weather mast has very low readings also. Never got a lot of voltage from galvanized pipe.
Bill brought up something in this thread about the reverse polarity with the trees. This might be relevant when wiring up an Ns coil or earth batteries. I would think someone knows the reason for the polarity reversal. If not we need to find out why.
Quote from: IotaYodi on February 05, 2011, 06:44:10 PM
That is correct. My galvanized weather mast has very low readings also. Never got a lot of voltage from galvanized pipe.
Bill brought up something in this thread about the reverse polarity with the trees. This might be relevant when wiring up an Ns coil or earth batteries. I would think someone knows the reason for the polarity reversal. If not we need to find out why.
Yes, exactly. I know it really may not have anything to do with what RR is suggesting here but, everyone should try the experiment I suggested. It only takes a few minutes and it goes against everything I was taught about "ground" being minus. I should make a quick video of this to find out what others think this is telling us.
Bill
Here we go.
This may be a way to sink a pvc pipe, then add the cable later:
http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=12
Looks like it would take a while, but cheap. Just need plenty of elbow grease.
Just need to cut the pipe to get a sharp tip.
Too bad it's the dead of winter and the ground is frozen right now.
The potential difference between the Earth and another celestial body could produce one whopping lightning bolt. However the Earth's potential is unfortunately our ground potential. The atmosphere has the most varying potential and has been tapped. The most powerful untapped energy source I can think of on the planet is the tides. Imagine having the energy that hits your continent every day.
Trees act as a "conductor" through the air, with a much lower resistance than air itself. ( i think impedance is the more proper term here) so they act as an "arial" of sorts...
When you connect to the earth-ground, this shows a voltage potential between the tree and the ground. The current chooses to take the path of least resistance through your meter, rather than through the base of the tree to ground, but trees have a constant low-amperage current flowing through them from the bottom to the top at all times. ( i would imagine there should be a voltage between two points in the tree, low and high)
in order to attain great currents from the earth, as discussed in a paper Tesla wrote, you must create a low-impedence connection into the earth.
my thoughts are that this would include either a large mass of metal, in the ground, or several smaller connections.
I demonstrated this when i was experimenting with the Earth Batteries.
at one point i had some 20+ ground leads feeding my experiment, and admittedly i never achieved anything close to what Bill has done, i did notice a large increase in current from multiple leads, and succeeded in lighting a large string of LED's in series and parallel, using a JT circuit.
It was nothing really significant, but it did shed some light on what Tesla had to say on the subject.
So, rather than just one wire,. i would suggest a lot of wires, or a very large piece of metal, burried deep into the earth.
Hello Smoky,
Just for my curiosity, how deep were your earth-ground leads?
RR2
Quote from: ResinRat2 on June 09, 2011, 01:42:58 PM
Hello Smoky,
Just for my curiosity, how deep were your earth-ground leads?
RR2
the final phase of my Earth Battery experiments consisted of a 4-ft galvanized steel pipe (1 inch was sticking out above ground)
and several short (2-4 inch) wires of various kinds: steel wire, copper wire, magnetic iron wire, non-magnetic iron wire, a handful of soft-iron twist-ties, and some insulated wires of unknown composition that i took from toy-packaging
there was a piece of coax cable hooked into the galvanized pipe, that i ran to my oscilloscope (center wire only), but i think i had that disconnected when i ran the joule thief.
Quotemy thoughts are that this would include either a large mass of metal, in the ground, or several smaller connections
Check out J.W. Wilkins & Alexander Bains work. Stubblefield used large copper wires to the trees. Some say this was using magnetic currents and not forcing voltage.
Our research in the EB topic on Stubblefield did not turn up any evidence of him using trees. Where did you read this? when he demonstrated his EB in Washington, DC he did it from a boat on the Potomac and actually made the first ship to shore telephone call. It still worked in the river. No trees there.
I am not arguing with you at all, I had just never read anything of this before your post.
Bill
Hello Bill,
I read it too, it will take me a bit to find the site, that when they found Stubblefield right after his death that on his property there was thick electrical cables running into the roots of trees.
I am at work right now so it will be a while.
Dave (RR2)
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/stubblefield.html
Later, Investigators entered his land area and found heavy wires leading from the roots of trees. To these wires were attached small arc lamps, hung in the trees.
Dave:
Very cool. I look forward to reading that. Have you ever tried my tree experiment with your DMM? I wish more folks would. I want to see if it is just my trees that are negative and the ground here is positive. Maybe it is like this all over the world? OR, maybe there are + and - trees?
Please folks, just try sticking one probe into a tree and the other in the ground. If you get a - reading, reverse the probes and tell us what it reads. My one tree out front is about 1 volt DC -.
Thanks Dave.
Bill
Pirate check my post. The link is there.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on June 10, 2011, 12:04:48 PM
Dave:
Very cool. I look forward to reading that. Have you ever tried my tree experiment with your DMM? I wish more folks would. I want to see if it is just my trees that are negative and the ground here is positive. Maybe it is like this all over the world? OR, maybe there are + and - trees?
Please folks, just try sticking one probe into a tree and the other in the ground. If you get a - reading, reverse the probes and tell us what it reads. My one tree out front is about 1 volt DC -.
Thanks Dave.
Bill
Hello Bill,
I tried your experiment today, I stabbed one probe into the tree root and the other as far away as I could into the ground. The ground read as positive and the meter read approx. 56 mv.
Dave(RR2)
Quote from: ResinRat2 on June 12, 2011, 12:03:13 PM
Hello Bill,
I tried your experiment today, I stabbed one probe into the tree root and the other as far away as I could into the ground. The ground read as positive and the meter read approx. 56 mv.
Dave(RR2)
@RR2
try sticking the tree at a point higher up if you can, and notice the difference.
update:
the type/size of the tree may have something to do with it.
Large oak in the front yard was in the mv range,
but the smaller flowering tree in the back yard reads 0.2v
just for shts n giggles i stabbed the wooden fence post and got nothing.....
Quotejust for shts n giggles i stabbed the wooden fence post and got nothing.....
Ive done that and have gotten voltage. If the ground is damp you should get voltage. The voltage decreased the further up I went on the post.
QuoteLarge oak in the front yard was in the mv range,
but the smaller flowering tree in the back yard reads 0.2v
Could be just like wire. The longer the wire the larger the voltage drop.
I may try drilling a hole to the core on some oak or myrtle trees in my pasture. I have some that grow close to the bank of the pond also.
of course, if the voltage potential varries between locations in the actual ground itself, as indicated by certain earth battery experiments, that could further complicate this issue.
Don't know if this is right but I was thinking about what Pirate said about the ground reading positive and the tree reading negative. If the lead that is connection to the ground is reading positive and the lead touching the tree negative it might be the circuit path of the roots. The roots will go far lower than the ground you are poking at. Hence they will be more negative the farther down. It doesn't look this way because poking the tree above the ground and it might look higher than the ground but in fact you are really poking the lower roots that touch the soil then back up to the other lead; which is really supposed to be positive cause it is higher soil. I can assume you have to actually poke the tree and break it's skin. Which will probably be a moisture or water path that leads down to the roots likes veins until it contacts the soil. Anyway that's my two cents and I bet the more you poke the tree and put in series the higher your volts and parallel the higher the amps. Until you suck the life out of that poor tree, or poison it with the electrodes... :-\ :)
QuoteI can assume you have to actually poke the tree and break it's skin
I didn't on my grapefruit tree.
Ive been pondering this and it seems to me its just the direction of current flow. Unlike poles attract. Current flow is always from the south magnetic pole to the north magnetic pole. South is input or - and north is output or +. If the North geographic/south magnetic pole is inputting electrons or neg ions to the tree, then the output from the tree has to travel to the north magnetic pole + or output through the meters positive probe. Which it does.
You have basically 2 objects in this loop. The tree and the Earth.
With just a copper pipe and neg meter probe in ground it follows the same pattern. South magnetic in and North magnetic out. The positive probe is measuring the north magnetic outflow of current. If the leads are reversed then there is no unlike pole attraction but like pole repulsion which gives a negative reading. With or without a metal or other cathode materiel, the outflow of current from the copper or north magnetic pole just flows back to ground through it. This would seem to make the Earth both positive and negative depending on where the current flow is coming from.The copper would be positive to ground and the tree negative to ground.
If any of that holds true then trees wired in series would be both above and below ground. In parallel it would be a wire from root to root or plain earth and which one would be better, and a wire above ground from tree to tree. Which raises questions on how to attach the wires. Should a negative materiel be used above ground and copper below ground? What kind of insulation if any?
Quote from: ResinRat2 on June 12, 2011, 12:03:13 PM
Hello Bill,
I tried your experiment today, I stabbed one probe into the tree root and the other as far away as I could into the ground. The ground read as positive and the meter read approx. 56 mv.
Dave(RR2)
Dave:
Thanks. So I am not crazy and the "ground" is +. A few posts above a fellow suggested that it might be because we are higher than the roots in the ground which is not a bad theory. The actual roots may be - but I would not know how to test for this in my situation. (I rent over here)
@ All:
This is very easy to test without harming the tree in any way. Now, if we start sucking real power out of them, I have no idea of what those effects may or may not be over time. This may be be yet another way to tap into solar energy.
Bill
This may blow your mind:
http://journal.borderlands.com/2000/plants-and-radionic-currents/
How does it all tie together? Can you wire the trees in parallel and in series. Is this why those large wires were in the roots of trees on Stubblefield's property?
Nice find! Bookmarked it. Experiment 5 may be a way to tell a good current.
If the pitch is no longer heard then the frequency must be higher than 20khz. Very interesting to say the least.
EXPERIMENT 5
Tuned currents which the plant absolutely demands will result in an audio “thrill responseâ€. These are noted by both steady “warbling songs†and sudden audio pitch INCREASES. In certain cases, this pitch increase will quickly reach inaudible levels. When this occurs, you have found a major current demanded by the plant. Experimental familiarity will now allow you to expand your knowledge of these things. Obtain a great number of plants, with the goal of individually listing and collating their various radionic settings.
It was for this reason that I suggested that you obtain ordinary wildflowers. They are plentiful and free! Wildflowers are very hearty and stand up under the shock induced by Biosensors. Some experimenters prefer to purchase plants for their demonstrations. The essential thing is that you obtain a sizable collection of plants. Number each one with a felt-tip marker and keep track of their progress. Keep good notes. Your notebook represents an important document in the re-emerging Qualitative Science.
when i was playing around with the earth battery, a Squash seed, had apparently been transported across the yard from my failed attempt at a garden.
the squash grew into a mutant vine that quickly took over my entire yard. gigantic flowers, leaves larger than my head.....
i eventually had to kill the plant before it ever grew any fruit.
i had never releated the two events: earth battery and mutant squash
until i read that stuff there......
Quote from: ResinRat2 on February 17, 2011, 03:28:30 PM
Here we go.
This may be a way to sink a pvc pipe, then add the cable later:
http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=12
Looks like it would take a while, but cheap. Just need plenty of elbow grease.
Just need to cut the pipe to get a sharp tip.
Too bad it's the dead of winter and the ground is frozen right now.
I tried this method this evening. I was out there about an hour trying to get the damn PVC pipe into the ground. After it pulled out an initial two feet or so of dirt, it simply stopped pulling any more dirt out. It just kept slipping out of the pipe and back into the ground. This method does not work.
Quote from: ResinRat2 on June 19, 2011, 05:36:42 PM
I tried this method this evening. I was out there about an hour trying to get the damn PVC pipe into the ground. After it pulled out an initial two feet or so of dirt, it simply stopped pulling any more dirt out. It just kept slipping out of the pipe and back into the ground. This method does not work.
theres a couple of factors that arent covered in that article, when using this method.
First, is the consistency of the dirt, this is controlled by the addition of water into the hole. This example uses a constantly running hose.
Too much water will make the dirty too "mushy" and it will slosh right out,
not enough water makes the dirt crumble and it wil fall out of the pipe.
you want a nice thick mud in order to form 'removable plugs' in the end of the pipe.
the other, is that you must keep the pipe straight when you hammer it.
each hammer + turn needs to be done straight with the angle of the hole. if you tilt it too much while turning and or hammering, you deform the plug and it wont seal inside the pipe for easy removal.
This method works great, you just have to pay attention to a couple of things. I've used this to install sump-lines without having to dig a ditch tearing up the persons yard. Its similar to taking a core-sample of deep earth.
it doesnt have to be the 2-inches specified in the article, it may be 1 inch, or 6 inches depending on the dirt, how hard or dry it is ect.
also, your pipe doesnt have to be PVC, it can be any hard pipe material, metal works too and might 'cut' into the ground better in some hard soils. then can be replaced with PVC afterwards, if you are using that as an insulator or whatever.
Thanks for the info SmOky,
I'll give it another try, maybe too much water was in the hole. It is going to be a while though, I slipped and fell down the concrete steps of my front porch this morning and messed up my knee and ankle. I am not trying to get any sympathy, just stating a fact. I can barely walk right now, so I won't get to it for at least several days.
When I do I will keep your details in mind.
RR2
RR2:
I hope that you recover quickly. Stuff like this happens but it sucks when it does.
Bill
Thanks Bill,
Actually I am much better already. Somewhere on this site (I can't remember or find the link ) someone mentioned a therapy where alternating hot and cold compresses are placed on an injury to help it heal. I spent my entire day yesterday alternating 30 minute hot and cold compresses on my injured knee and ankle. By the end of the day ( over twelve hours or so, I kind of lost count ) I was able to walk and get around. This morning I was able to bend my injured knee over 90 degrees without pain and I went to work. I am not at 100 % by a longshot, but I am able to function and do my job fine.
RR2
Hi Everyone,
Today I tried to get the PVC pipe down into the ground using the same method. Once again the dirt kept falling out of the pipe about 90% of the time and little progress was made. I was finally able to get the pipe down about four feet when all progress to go deeper yielded no results.
I cut an extension cord, frayed the ends of the wires, and forced one end into the hole, covering the bottom.
The second cord was frayed as well and inserted only a few inches into the ground, but about five or six feet away from the hole. The difference reading was only a measly 37 mv but the deeper wire was positive, which was reverse to previous experiments. I hooked the corresponding negative and positive lines to a 8000 uF 30VDC capacitor with a skottkey diode to the negative lead and let it sit for about four hours. The capacitor has a reading of 56mv, but now its negative and positive poles are reversed. I think I just ruined my Cap, and this probably means my initial positive and negative pole readings were wrong on the wires in the ground. The deeper wire should have been considered as negative.
So I just short circuited the wires by hooking the together and I want to see what happens.
I will check progress tommorrow.
Thanks for your interest.
RR2
been reading a few of the posts in this topic and fiind the idea very intriguing, but i do question the use of DMMs as opposed to using an analog voltmeter.
DMMs are inherently less stable than analog meters and i think this could confuse results when looking for very slight potentials.
RR, i noticed you came up with 56mV in two separate tests. to me this says that your DMM (i am assuming thats what you are using, but i havent read all the posts yet) might show something similar no matter where you put the probes.
if you can get an analog meter to budge, then i think you might have something.
sorry for posting before i read all the posts.
i will begin right now.
LC
Quote from: loosecannon on June 26, 2011, 05:38:08 PM
been reading a few of the posts in this topic and fiind the idea very intriguing, but i do question the use of DMMs as opposed to using an analog voltmeter.
DMMs are inherently less stable than analog meters and i think this could confuse results when looking for very slight potentials.
RR, i noticed you came up with 56mV in two separate tests. to me this says that your DMM (i am assuming thats what you are using, but i havent read all the posts yet) might show something similar no matter where you put the probes.
if you can get an analog meter to budge, then i think you might have something.
sorry for posting before i read all the posts.
i will begin right now.
LC
i was using an analog meter when i mearued the voltage of my trees outside. There is definately something there. i would like to see this effect amplified, perhaps by deeper wires as was suggested.
and maybe watering the tree first might help.. just a thought...
Hello LC,
You are correct, I am using a digital meter. You may very well be correct about it being unstable.
My hope is that if there is anything to this ground difference potential there will develop a very good sized potential that would cast aside any worries about meter instabilities. I want to see some good sized voltage readings, not just millivolts.
I reassembled the device with the correct poles last night, I will check on it when I get home today from work.
Thanks very much for your comments, I truly want the criticism of what I do, as long as people don't get personally insulting.
RR2
Here is an interesting Patent that seems to correspond to this experiment. :
Quote from: ResinRat2 on July 14, 2011, 03:28:38 PM
Here is an interesting Patent that seems to correspond to this experiment. :
nice find. earth battery patent from 1901
has anyone tried measuring between two different trees??
Quote from: ResinRat2 on July 14, 2011, 03:28:38 PM
Here is an interesting Patent that seems to correspond to this experiment. :
some more:
Thanks rensseak,
I downloaded them all. Very interesting reading.
RR2
Its been about two weeks since I buried the two electric cords, one deeper to the north (about four feet down) and the second to the south about half a foot down. they are about 6 feet apart and I am getting basically zero voltage for difference. Granted it is just copper cord exposed below the ground, and not much surface area; but I had hoped there would have been a higher voltage differential.
Looking at the papers rensseak posted, it would seem I need to actually bury electrodes, like zinc and steel, to do the trick. I guess then this would be an earth battery using the ground minerals and moisture as the electrolyte.
I just wanted to post my failure results.
Thanks for your interest,
RR2
Earth batteries require you to use two different metals one for anode one for cathode the earth that I am aware of acts then as your electrolyte at least that is how I recall it...
Hopefully this helps...
-infringer-
www.mopowah.com
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/TreshaEdwards.shtml
Quote
The electric field is a measure of the force that is exerted per coulomb of charge. Its measure is defined as kq/r2 where k is the electrostatic constant constant, q is the amount of charge, and r is the distance between charges. The presence of an electric field is identified using a test charge.
The earth's atmosphere has an electric field that is directed radially inward. Most of my sources show that knowing the electric field of the earth can lead to the calculation of the charge on the earth's surface. Though some of the figures obtained are for the earth's atmosphere, it is true that the magnitude of the electric field outside a uniformly charged sphere is the same as if all the charge were concentrated at the center.
I obtained values for the magnitude of the electric field at the Earth's surface. These were in the range of 66 N/C to 150 N/C. These values are close enough to assume that each source received their data from a different primary source and each may be accurate in their own right. I am convinced that the figure is closer to 150 N/C than to 66 N/C because of the sources themselves.
Though the electric field is reported as being constant by some of my sources, The Handbook of Physics and Chemistry proves that the electric field intensity varies measurements taken at different altitudes above sea level. Its intensity decreases as you move farther away from the earth's surface.
Tresha Edwards -- 1998
Quote from: infringer on July 17, 2011, 06:55:17 PM
Earth batteries require you to use two different metals one for anode one for cathode the earth that I am aware of acts then as your electrolyte at least that is how I recall it...
Hopefully this helps...
-infringer-
www.mopowah.com (http://www.mopowah.com)
Well, with my experiments over the years, you can use 2 pieces of a copper pipe cut from the same length and, if aligned properly, you can get volts and mA's. I did this a few years ago to dispell the "galvanic" opinion. Many others have done this as well. Obviously not as good as I get with Mg and carbon electrodes but, I think it did show that there is something else going on here besides pure galvanic.
Bill
Thanks for your replies Infringer, KS86, and Bill.
One of the reasons I was never too interested in the earth battery was because I assumed it was a simple galvanic reaction going on. Nothing special in my mind. If you need two different metals then one is being consumed and will need to be replaced down the line; but your results, Bill, with using two copper pipes sounds interesting. If you are using the same metals then something else is going on.
I will pull up the cords and re-dig the holes. This time burying copper pipe pieces to act as the electrodes. Thanks for the info Bill.
Also, Bill, did you ever try different depths between the two electrodes with your experiments? This would fall right in line with what I am thinking of doing with this experiment.
Thanks for your interest everyone,
RR2
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf054/sf054g13.htm
http://www.electricuniverse.info/Electricity_throughout_the_Universe#Telluric_currents_.28Subterranean_electricity.29
Quote from: ResinRat2 on July 18, 2011, 09:29:11 AM
Thanks for your replies Infringer, KS86, and Bill.
One of the reasons I was never too interested in the earth battery was because I assumed it was a simple galvanic reaction going on. Nothing special in my mind. If you need two different metals then one is being consumed and will need to be replaced down the line; but your results, Bill, with using two copper pipes sounds interesting. If you are using the same metals then something else is going on.
I will pull up the cords and re-dig the holes. This time burying copper pipe pieces to act as the electrodes. Thanks for the info Bill.
Also, Bill, did you ever try different depths between the two electrodes with your experiments? This would fall right in line with what I am thinking of doing with this experiment.
Thanks for your interest everyone,
RR2
Yes. Buried in the JT topic is some information on work done by the Russians in this area. As it turns out, you need (according to the researchers) to have your electrodes aligned on the meridian north/south (not magnetic) and the north electrode needs to be deeper to form an angle that matches the magnetic dip angle for your area along the bottom of the electrodes. Obviously, this has to be recalculated as you increase the distance between them or decrease it.
If I can find the link to the site that shows these numbers for a specific area, i will add it here. Understand, when using the same metals, the readings are not good but they are there which told me that there is some energy there without galvanic action. Stubblefield always said that his coils would last for many years when buried in the ground and if it were pure galvanic, one of his metals should have degraded. It makes for interesting experimenting.
Bill
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/IGRFWMM.jsp)
Thanks Bill,
My wires are aligned North-South (not magnetic) and the northernmost electrode is the deeper hole. This was by pure luck, not intelligence on my part.
Thanks very much for the info.
RR2
RR2:
That was just good planing not luck, ha ha. I also remember reading that it may take a little time for the ground to return to "normal" around the electrodes and they did, in my case, put out better as time went on.
I can't remember if it was mentioned here or not but it was discussed in the EB topic area, national radio show host Art Bell (Coast to Coast show) who is an avid HAM operator told about his then new antenna array he had installed out in his Nevada home property. He described a series of metal poles placed in the ground and standing some distance into the air, I can't recall how high...10-15 feet maybe? His antenna wire ran along these poles and he described many, many of these poles and bragged that his was the largest array of its kind for HAM operation...well...when his electrician hooked it up to Art's radios....BOOM! It blew one of them up. The guy checked the wires from the antenna and there was over 250 volts on the antenna line!!! This was, of course, a problem for Art but maybe a good accidental discovery? He never said the power levels but that is still a lot of voltage anyway....for free. Must have had some power as it burned up his equipment. He had to use all sorts of black boxes to get rid of this energy before the line went into his radios.
Bill