SILVER GEMSTONE=free engery device
Device consists of three elements.
1) A tall watertight tube, open on top end.
2) At the top there is a wireframe wheel that is tilted so that as it turns it dips over the lip of the tube down into the tube slightly, where it picks up a steel ball that is floating in mercury inside the tube. As it turns, it lifts the ball out of the tube and drops it outside the tube. As the ball falls it turns a device that is attached to a small pulley system which makes the wireframe wheel turn, so that it can pick up the next ball.
3) At the bottom of the tube, the steel ball falls, after having helped to spin a generator's turbine, and finally lands on a device that captures it's weight and impact force into a conical spring. The ball then rolls into position at the end of a line of balls that sit at an angle, waiting to be let through the gate and into the mercury filled tube. The spring is used to operate the gate. The gate consists of a device that lets a ball enter, then it rotates so that the outward facing part is covered by an airtight layer of metal. As it turns the backside of the device is exposed to the mercury inside the tube. It lets the ball free and then closes again and rotates back into it's original position, bringing no mercury with it from inside the tube. The freed ball floats up by the force of boyancy to the top of the tube where it is picked up by the wireframe wheel. The details of how the gate operates I will draw later.
Gate
Tube or resovior of steel balls waiting to enter gate brings a steel ball into the gate using gravity as the resovior sits above the gate.
There is a flat disc sitting 'on it's side'. It is wide, or deep enough to conceal one of the steel balls inside it. At the top (and bottom as everything from here on is duplicated on the exact opposite side of the gate), there is an opening just big enough for the ball to enter. Behind the 'disc' there is a flat metal wall, that is flush with the disc. When the ball sits in the opening, it gets 'piched' into place. This is done by a piece of metal that can move in a groove that has been made for it in the disc.
When the disc is waiting for a ball, this 'groove' has opened. That is to say that a peice continues moving to the left after the disc has finished rotating to the left. One part keeps going until is has created the gap that will pinch the ball. At this point the ball falls into the gap and the moving piece is let go so that it tries to move back into position through spring action. It hits the ball and piches it into place.
Then the disc rotates to the right. On the right of where the gap is, there is a thicker wall, which allows the disc to fit into it in an airtight fashion. The edge of it that can be seen creates a 90 degree angle with the disc. The disc rotates into it, until the only part of the disc that can still be seen from the outside is flat and smooth, with no important features.
Meanwhile, on the inside of the tube, the opposite side of the disc has now emerged with the ball exposed to the inside of the tube. at a certain point the movable piece stops turning as the rest of the disc continues. This releases the ball from it being pinched, and the Mercury floats the ball upwards and away. The disc begins to rotate back towards it's original position, when it meets the movable piece. Because the movable piece fits perfectly into the groove, and closing the gap, all the mercury is pushed out of the way. When the gap is closed, the groove isnt even noticable. The disc looks like a solid pice of metal. The disc rotates back through the wall, which is all an airtight fit, and back into position awaiting the next ball. This will not bring any mercury back through the gate with it and it doesnt fight or push against the internal pressure of the liquid at all.
To the Trolls:
This thread is a Silver Gemstone. I told you to back off, and so this is out. I don't know if I worded it right, but upon thinking about it these guys will get it.
All that has to happen is I get to go on with my life in peace, as I have said before. If not, I have more like this about numerous topics, and I will let more and more stuff out as long as I am still being harassed.
Peace to all the inventors here, you are the Saints of this generation.
Good idea. Wrong position in this forum: it's not a solid state device.
I quit about half way through the description. I'm not sure why you have posted this other than it may be an overunity idea. BTW I'm not a troll or naysayer but like to hear about anything that might be OU. So for that I'd like to say thanks. But how likely is it that something like this could have any benefit or use in actually generating power when mercury is almost impossible to buy and if you could it looks to be at least $3,400.00 per gallon. Based on what I did get from the description it sounds like it would take a lot of mercury to actually generate useful power if it does work. So what is the purpose of posting this? If you have other ideas that might be real world useful I'm all ears.
@e2matrix if the idea was workable it could be done with many liquids.
the problem is that any buoyancy created at the bottom of the column takes
as much energy as can be gotten from the buoyant effect.
fritznien
Quote from: gemstone hell on April 10, 2011, 04:13:14 PM
To the Trolls:
This thread is a Silver Gemstone. I told you to back off, and so this is out. I don't know if I worded it right, but upon thinking about it these guys will get it.
All that has to happen is I get to go on with my life in peace, as I have said before. If not, I have more like this about numerous topics, and I will let more and more stuff out as long as I am still being harassed.
Peace to all the inventors here, you are the Saints of this generation.
the thing about inventions/theories is that, it is not the peer reviews of others to prove you right, Peer review by real Scientist and Physicist are there to prove you False. so don't be alarmed if Science seems so mean, they are really not.
there are geniuses out there in physics that have multiple masters degree's as well as PhD's, I met one young scientist at the age of 12 he Graduated the University of U.C.D 6 times by the age of 12. we called him Mr. Brown, wore a smoking jacket and well groomed individual. Wickedly Smart.
if you feel you can contend with these kinds of people mentally then have at it.
By the way, do you have any videos or pictures you can share?
that would be great.
Jerry 8)
Sorry about posting in the wrong topic. On the other issues, there is no buoyancy pressure to fight at the bottom, because the gate at the bottom is a disk with a smooth edge which sits sideways between the outside and inside of the tube. As it rotates it goes into the wall of the tube, which is an air/water tight seal.
The disk has a piece on it that can pull back to create a gap big enough for the ball to fit into. This piece can move into the disk to allow the ball into this space. The walls of the tube allow the disk to rotate into an area where the disk is flush on all sides before it moves into the mercury.
Once inside the mercury, the piece pulls back a little more to let the ball free. The mercury raises it out of the disk and it floats to the top.
The piece slides back into place, removing any mercury from the gap, and rotates back to the outside where it picks up another steel ball.
When something is simply spinning like this in a liquid is isn't displacing any fluid, nor is anything pushing up against it in a way that would cause additional friction. It will work.
Quote from: gemstone hell on April 10, 2011, 11:52:57 PM
Sorry about posting in the wrong topic. On the other issues, there is no buoyancy pressure to fight at the bottom, because the gate at the bottom is a disk with a smooth edge which sits sideways between the outside and inside of the tube. As it rotates it goes into the wall of the tube, which is an air/water tight seal.
The disk has a piece on it that can pull back to create a gap big enough for the ball to fit into. This piece can move into the disk to allow the ball into this space. The walls of the tube allow the disk to rotate into an area where the disk is flush on all sides before it moves into the mercury.
Once inside the mercury, the piece pulls back a little more to let the ball free. The mercury raises it out of the disk and it floats to the top.
The piece slides back into place, removing any mercury from the gap, and rotates back to the outside where it picks up another steel ball.
When something is simply spinning like this in a liquid is isn't displacing any fluid, nor is anything pushing up against it in a way that would cause additional friction. It will work.
can you draw a picture of that?
the ball floats up, the mercury is under it, how do you clear the hole of mercury that the ball leaves as it floats up?
rather how do you clear it without pushing against it and doing work?
fritznien
I'll work on a picture. For now let me try to clarify. There are really several configurations that will work. Imagine a hockey puck on it's side. This is the disk. Part of one face of it is exposed to the outside of the tube.
Here's one configuration:
It appears solid when looking at it. Inside the disk could be a spring. This spring keeps a wedge like section of the side of the puck, not the face, but the edge, pushed out so that it's flush with the rest of the side of the puck.
The ball hits it and pushes it down into the inside of the puck a little bit, so that the ball falls into this space. The top of the ball doesn't stick out at all from the top of the puck. Just then it rotates into the wall of the tube where the faces and side (edge) of the puck are flush with the inside of the opening that it's rotating into. This is a watertight fit.
It continues to rotate and then part of the side or edge of the disk(puck) becomes exposed to the mercury, at this point the mercury lifts the ball out of the wedge section through natural buoyancy. Then the spring pushes the wedge section back up into place displacing any mercury that will have filled the area where the ball used to be.
The puck then rotates again through the wall section of the tube until it emerges into the area outside of it again. The tube is shaped at this location to accommodate this.
In this configuration the puck shaped disk simply continues to rotate. It's rotation is powered by the weight of the ball when it falls onto a platform before being routed into position to await going back into the disk. When it hits the platform that energy compresses a conical spring that discharged evenly to provide rotation to the disk. Each ball that falls adds to this.
As long as the cut in the wall of the tube is watertight and the wedge like section of the disk is also, then no mercury will be brought back out of the tube as the disk rotates.
The tube can be as tall as you like, which is great. The energy from the ball falling outside the tube spins some generators on it's way down providing excess power. The wire frame wheel at the top is turned so that part of it dips over the lip into the tube a bit, so that it can pick up a ball which is routed into position by giving it no where else to go.
As the ball falls, it first drops on a carriage that is on two pulleys to rotate he wheel and lift our another ball.
It's a perpetual motion device with extra out put. Powered by gravity alone.
One might think that the spring wouldn't be strong enough to push the wedge shaped piece back up, against the weight of the mercury. Because of its design the mercury can't get under the piece.
However, the balls that are waiting to enter are stacked up at an angle, so that their collective weight pushes against the piece as the call is inserted. This means that the spring can be much stronger than if it were only one ball trying to push against it. For this reason it can be strong enough to push against the internal pressure of the mercury.
Not only that, but there are other configurations that will work. Inside the disk the wedge shaped piece on the inside can be set up to push another piece just like it that is on the inside to close at is opens. The pressure that pushes down on the outside piece also closes the inside one at the same time. If one moves the other is forced to.
In my original post I talked about a groove design where a piece slides forward and back, pinching and unpinching a ball into place. This would work as well.
There is also a two gate method, where the ball drops and slashes under a lip into a primary chamber. Once inside a gate closes off its entrance path, and a second gate opens that sits at the bottom of the tube. The ceiling of the chamber is angled so that the ball floats up and into the tube. Once inside the tube, the gate at the bottom of the tube closes and the gate at the entrance to the first chamber opens again. All these gates slide sideways so they are not pushing against the fluid pressure.
The ball floats up the tube where it is snatched out and over the lip in the same manner I described in my first post. IT drops and the whole thing starts over again. Will work, I saw a Chinese guy who did this with water and a capsule. Worked nicely.
just to show you how dense Mercury is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm5D47nG9k4
good luck getting past the density differences.
I don't understand the criticism. I counting on the density of the mercury, that's how we get the most bang for the buck so to speak.
In the video you linked to the buy only drops the cannonball from a few inches above the Mercury. If you drop it from a higher height like in the invention, then all you need to do is get it under a lip that sits at the waterline of the fluid. Even in this video it almost goes down that deep. What's the complaint?
Yeah, there is no problem working with mercury metal theoretically, it's
a bear experimentally, why not use a nylon plastic ball rather then a steel
one? - For even more bang for your buck. I happen to like an enclosed
piston device that can create an internal vacuum - that is lighter still
and you don't have to worry about gas temperature compensation in
calculations.
---
Now why these buoyancy devices usually don't work is that one is required
to lift the whole weight of the volume equivalent of the column of mercury
when inserting an object at the botton of the tube, while the object is only
buoyed up by the weight of the fluid it displaces at the surface. So inserting
the thing requires an energy deficit that needs the whole distance of the
column to equal. So there becomes no free energy.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Quote from: gemstone hell on April 12, 2011, 12:18:25 PM
I don't understand the criticism.
If you don't understand the criticism, you don't understand what are they talking about: buoyancy.
I suggest you a simple experiment: make an ice cube/ball, put it into a tube and try to blow it into water, using your mouth. Is it easy enough to hit an underwater target that way? How much energy you need to exert to blow the pipe/tube with the ice ball in that experiment?
Try to google with "buoyancy experiments" to learn more.
The two chamber method doesn't press against the mercury at the bottom of the tube at all. The cannonball, or steel ball, is dropped onto the surface of the mercury, where the force of it dropping makes it nearly go under the mercury. In fact it will penetrate deep enough to go under the waterline "lip" that leads into the 1st chamber. At that moment the 1st chamber gate closes. The mercury level inside and out side of this chamber is the same and the gate is thin and slides sideways. It does not press against the mercury above.
At that moment the gate at the bottom of the tube opens sideways as well. This opens up the tube to the first chamber, which is now not open to the outside tank. Boyancy allows the ball to float up the tube. Once the ball is inside the tube, the gate at the bottom of the tube closes, then the gate on the chamber that connects it to the outside tank opens.
This can also be done with water and like you said a nylon ball.
I already addressed the column of mercury above the "door" issue with the disk version of this. While this may be a monkey wrench, certainly it has no bearing on the two chamber version.
Considering what I had already written in the previous posts, it's nothing short of a laugh that this other guy thinks I have never "googled" 'boyancy'. Perhaps he belongs on the TMZ forum.
Quote from: gemstone hell on April 12, 2011, 07:04:58 PM
The two chamber method doesn't press against the mercury at the bottom of the tube at all. The cannonball, or steel ball, is dropped onto the surface of the mercury, where the force of it dropping makes it nearly go under the mercury. In fact it will penetrate deep enough to go under the waterline "lip" that leads into the 1st chamber. At that moment the 1st chamber gate closes. The mercury level inside and out side of this chamber is the same and the gate is thin and slides sideways. It does not press against the mercury above.
At that moment the gate at the bottom of the tube opens sideways as well. This opens up the tube to the first chamber, which is now not open to the outside tank. Boyancy allows the ball to float up the tube. Once the ball is inside the tube, the gate at the bottom of the tube closes, then the gate on the chamber that connects it to the outside tank opens.
This can also be done with water and like you said a nylon ball.
I already addressed the column of mercury above the "door" issue with the disk version of this. While this may be a monkey wrench, certainly it has no bearing on the two chamber version.
Considering what I had already written in the previous posts, it's nothing short of a laugh that this other guy thinks I have never "googled" 'boyancy'. Perhaps he belongs on the TMZ forum.
You drop the ball into the lower chamber and close the door.
the second door opens and the ball floats up, the second door closes.
problem the bottom chamber is now full of liquid. the next ball will cause an overflow, when the ball floated up into the top chamber
a volume of liquid equal to the ball went down into the lower chamber.
no joy for design 2.
fritznien
If buoyancy isn't a problem then timing certainly would be.
My question is, have you built it yet ?
Excellent observations guys. Now these are legitimate criticisms. The timing issues can be regulated by "tripwire" devices inside the chamber and tube to trigger the gates at the appropriate times. In addition the wire frame wheel at the top and carriage can be set up so that the ball doesn't drop until the bottom gate is open.
Now the concern over the displacement of the volume of fluid that equals what is expelled by the ball is the only real issue that provides a challenge. I have considered this when I first came up with the details. I thought of all sorts of things to try to overcome this, and then I just realized the simple straightforward solution.
Since we are getting the lift free, and the drop free also, the wire frame wheel and the gates are the only moving parts that we need to extract energy from the ball's motion in order to operate. The wire frame wheel only has to turn about 1/8 of a rotation, as all it really has to do is pick the ball up and lift it over the lip of the top of the tube. That's not much movement, and so we're getting a pretty good free output at this point.
If we could (in an ideal world) capture the entire energy of the lift inside the tube, then we could lift also the weight of one ball the entire height of the tube. We can't due to loss, but if the weight of the ball is as close as possible to the weight of it's volume in mercury, meaning we want to use the densest material we can find that will still float on mercury, then we can maximize our output due to the increase in force of it's drop.
We capture energy from it's trek upwards inside the tube with an apperatus positioned inside the tube. We can even make the ball spiral up along a corkscrew thing in order to get more distance out of its motion. Along the way it pushes levers or what have you. On its drop after its turned its share of the wire frame wheel, it also turns some generators or what have you. The combined energy from its rise and fall should be more than enough to pump one balls worth of mercury to the top of the tube and dump it back into the tube at the appropriate moment.
If we need more excess output, we can just increase the height of the tube. While, this will make us spend more energy to operate the pump, it will also increase the excess energy we are getting, and the ratio of energy we use to operate he gates and wire frame wheel to the energy we use to pump the fluid changes in our favor. Meaning that increasing the height doesn't change how much energy it takes us to operate the gates or wire frame wheel, that stays the same. The pump needs more power and our output increases. What this equates to is a higher output for us, even though much of the energy we make is being used to operate he device. All we need is the smallest positive output and continual motion with no input and we have done what they say can't be done.
Peace to you all.
gem your not getting it. all the energy you can get from the ball floating up
and then falling down will be required to get the ball back into the bottom of the tank and
and have the liquid all back in the tank. height is not the problem, friction is not the problem.
the problem is there is no excess energy to be had.
fritznien
Quote from: fritznien on April 13, 2011, 08:02:26 PM
gem your not getting it. all the energy you can get from the ball floating up
and then falling down will be required to get the ball back into the bottom of the tank and
and have the liquid all back in the tank. height is not the problem, friction is not the problem.
the problem is there is no excess energy to be had.
fritznien
In my opinion you are mistaken. The energy required to get the ball back into the tank is minimal. It splashed down into the mercury fluid, goes down just under the waterline and under the lip of the opening. That will only take a few feet of drop distance to achieve.
The energy to operate the gates and wire frame wheel is minimal and can be harvested from the first portion of the balls drop. The rest of the energy harvested can be used to pump the volume of mercury back into the top of the tube that was displaced as the ball passed from tank to chamber to tube, which is equal to the volume of one ball, even though it weighs a little more. That's fine because our ball is moving twice the distance that the mercury is going to have to. As long as it's more than half the weight of the mercury of the same volume, then we can get the same amount of force out of it that it takes to pump the mercury to the top of the tube.
Of course it needs to be heavier than that to cover the wireframe wheel and the gates.
Even though objects fall at the same speed, they do not fall with the same force. Heavier objects fall with more force, and that is where we make our excess power.
This totally works. I've seen it operating myself. A Chinese guy did this with water and a capsule. I didn't invent it I just modified it bit.
Quote from: gemstone hell on April 13, 2011, 09:25:18 PM
In my opinion you are mistaken. The energy required to get the ball back into the tank is minimal. It splashed down into the mercury fluid, goes down just under the waterline and under the lip of the opening. That will only take a few feet of drop distance to achieve.
The energy to operate the gates and wire frame wheel is minimal and can be harvested from the first portion of the balls drop. The rest of the energy harvested can be used to pump the volume of mercury back into the top of the tube that was displaced as the ball passed from tank to chamber to tube, which is equal to the volume of one ball, even though it weighs a little more. That's fine because our ball is moving twice the distance that the mercury is going to have to. As long as it's more than half the weight of the mercury of the same volume, then we can get the same amount of force out of it that it takes to pump the mercury to the top of the tube.
Of course it needs to be heavier than that to cover the wireframe wheel and the gates.
Even though objects fall at the same speed, they do not fall with the same force. Heavier objects fall with more force, and that is where we make our excess power.
This totally works. I've seen it operating myself. A Chinese guy did this with water and a capsule. I didn't invent it I just modified it bit.
you saw a utube vid. as penn & teller put it "doing magic tricks for the camera is bullshit!"
forget the energy for the mech that operates the gates and the transfer wheel, they are not the problem.
you have to lift one ball volume of mercury to the top of the tank each cycle.
energy = mgh
the float lift energy is the differance in mass between the ball and the one ball volume of mercury times g times height
the fall energy of the ball is its mass times g time height.
these two are the same as the energy to move the mercury back to the top of the tank.
there is no extra to be had.
fritznien
Fritz,
You are correct. Thanks for pointing it out. Now, what this tells us is that we have to find a way to either insert the ball without spending any energy, or finding a way to get output from buoyancy without inserting anything at all!
The disk turning sideways was the next idea I looked at. The problem was displacing the area where the ball was concealed and getting the "door" to move back into position.
While, fighting the pressure is not an option if we want any leftover output, I thought we could use buoyancy to lift it up back into position. While this may be doable, it would be tricky. But then, like a flash the answer hit me, and now I have it.
After a little research to make sure it will work and a little tweaking, I can now get perpetual motion and positive electrical output from a tank of mercury, using three additional components, one of which is a ball. The ball does not have to be inserted into the bottom of the tank in order for it to work. We do not need to lift anything or add any energy to the system at all in any way.
There is only one moving part and we don't have to make it move.
I will start a new thread in the correct category to explain this soon. So you can find it, I'll call it "Mercury Gravity Drive".