:) Hi. :)
I've being doing experiments with diodes. My experiments include LEDs and germanium diodes. My interest results from the fact that we are constantly immersed in an environment full of electromagnetic waves that include radio waves and light. I've decided to document my experiments in the hope someone may find them useful. It may be possible that my results are obvious to some of you. But that might not be the case to all of you. So, here we go.
My curiosity about diodes started when I first read about the "Diode Storm" work. It's about shielded diodes producing power. Because I don't live in an shielded environment, I've decided to do some experiments in an electromagnetic noisy environment. Pages regarding Diode Storm work disappeared from the website (maybe pages have been moved to another place). I hope the author hasn't been killed by powerfull corporations.
When I started to record 100mV, I thought my results were uninteresting. But then I discovered my results were not so bad when comparing to results obtained by others. I've tried a bunch of diodes and I've concluded that the winner is (the best diode is): well, you can have a look at my conclusions at:
http://schulers.com/jpss/estudos/diodes/ (http://schulers.com/jpss/estudos/diodes/)
::) I hope you'll enjoy. ::)
JP
Hi,
Why do not you turn to so called photo diodes, designed specially for light convertion into electron current.
Here is a data sheet at random, this diode gives 430mV open voltage for a normal (1000 lux) light intensity:
http://catalog.osram-os.com/media/_en/Graphics/00042727_0.pdf Farnell still has it (www.farnell.com).
Of course there are many other types, including photovoltaic (solar) cells.
Regarding your nice experiments and findings, I suggest testing diodes with glass or opac bodies that covered with dark paint against light: when you scrape off the paint you would find higher sensitivity.
rgds, Gyula
Interesting. I have a question on the use of a solar fence charger. This charger can operate for 2 weeks without sun. It is a 6 volt, 10 amp battery with a pulsed DC output at 1-second intervals with .15 joules and a voltage output around 8500 volts. Could this be used with high voltage diodes to produce a few amps?
Dear gyulasun,
Thank you for the ideas. I'm including them in my :D shopping list :D.
I'll include them in my next batch of experiments.
Quote from: IotaYodi on July 14, 2011, 10:33:05 AM
Interesting. I have a question on the use of a solar fence charger. This charger can operate for 2 weeks without sun. It is a 6 volt, 10 amp battery with a pulsed DC output at 1-second intervals with .15 joules and a voltage output around 8500 volts. Could this be used with high voltage diodes to produce a few amps?
Hi,
You surely know Joule is Wattsecond i.e. 1 Watt power is used in 1 second.
You wrote .15 Joule which then means 150 milliWatt in second.
If this .15 Joule is the energy fed into the fence and the 8500V means the voltage level associated with this energy to give a certain (small) shock to the animals, then the current involved for 1 second is I= .15/8500=1.76*10
-5 Amper i.e. 17.6 microAmper and this repeats in 1 second intervals. So no chance you could get Ampers from this output.
If you could charge up high voltage capacitors with this 8500V (which certaily could take some time, depending on the caps value), then you could store some accumulated energy like in a photoflash cap and use it for higher current when you discharge the cap. In this case the higher current may mean Ampers too but then the stored energy is used up much rapidly than the charge up time was, so no free lunch... (ideally say for a hypotetical math example you charge up a cap to 8500V in 10 seconds with your consequtive output pulses and then if you disharge it in micro or milliseconds you get the high currents but this consumes the charge and another 10 second chargetime should come to repeat this process).
(see Nikola Tesla on this here http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm#Section_4 where the Counsel asked him on "using several thousand horsepower put into a condenser, you could take out of the condenser a million horsepower".)
The bottom line is the power fed into a capacitor under a certain charge up time (i.e stored energy will be Watt times the second) can be taken out in a much shorter time to get a much higher power. You simply consume the inputted energy in a much less time you spent for the charge-up.
rgds, Gyula
Thanks Gulag! I read everything there. Some of it I already previously read but found some new things also. The storage of charge in the earth then picking it back up at a distance point was one of them. The spark gap was another.
QuoteI was able, as I have pointed out in my writings, to produce oscillations without even a spark being visible between the knobs
That reminded me of the Japanese scientists who stated they found the most intense magnetic field in a spark gap to be a very low voltage. Looks like Tesla found that first also.
I was going to try a bifilar coil with a secondary coil wrapped around that to see what I would get with the solar charger. Now Im thinking taking my stubblefield coil in the ground and then another coil at a distance in the ground. Tuning these coils would present a problem for me though.
Thanks again for the input Gulag!
interesting ;D
@ schuler
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing your results. You may want to try RK44 diodes (available from Electronic Goldmine), they have a very low forward voltage drop (less than 0.2 volts at 1 ma). This is a circuit that will light an LED using 1 uA at 0.7 volts >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T9HQkDnIuU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
gyula
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm#039
Thats a pretty interesting read. Tesla sounds kind of ticked off sometimes in it.
Hi xee2,
It seems my shopping list is growing.
::) The RK44 has been included. ::)
@ schuler
I put an RK44 diode in series with an antenna and it did not rectify the weak mV signal being received. I then replaced RK44 with a germanium diode and it did rectify the signal. So RK44 may have low forward voltage drop but they do not make good detectors.
@ Anyone... I realize I am probably in the wrong forum, But can someone help me ??
I Have some of those wafer thin solar cells .5v @ 3.5 Amps, and I want to make a panel up of around
4.5 - 6 volts @ only 1 Amp, I know I can wire them up to make 4.5 or 6v but can I reduce the current somehow from 3.5 to 1 Amp without loosing much on the volts side ????
Quote from: xee2 on July 24, 2011, 01:11:28 AM
@ schuler
I put an RK44 diode in series with an antenna and it did not rectify the weak mV signal being received. I then replaced RK44 with a germanium diode and it did rectify the signal. So RK44 may have low forward voltage drop but they do not make good detectors.
Germanium is very efficient up to 40% to 50% it also has the widest band gap, one thing I never tested on Germanium is if it is sensitive to Infrared.
Jerry
The idea of diodes as energy accumulators has been discussed in other threads (can't remember where anymore) as well. I am hoping to take an old LED computer screen to see if I can collect radiant energy from that. As a diode (or grouping of diodes), it should be able to accomplish this task. Unlike solar panels, diodes should be able to collect radiant energy any time of day, as should any piece of metal (with its inherent crystalline molecular structure) - see Tesla's apparatus for collecting radiant energy.
Someone also mentioned using a bifilar coil and a secondary with diodes. Again, in another thread, the self-inducting properties of coils has been noted. Is this not why coils are found in many of Tesla's patents?
B
Quote from: freepow on July 24, 2011, 08:36:17 AM
@ Anyone... I realize I am probably in the wrong forum, But can someone help me ??
I Have some of those wafer thin solar cells .5v @ 3.5 Amps, and I want to make a panel up of around
4.5 - 6 volts @ only 1 Amp, I know I can wire them up to make 4.5 or 6v but can I reduce the current somehow from 3.5 to 1 Amp without loosing much on the volts side ????
hi freepow
yes, you can - use a Pulse-Width Modulation circuit with the duty cycle adjusted to give you whatever proportion current you want from the panels max o/p
this means you get to use as much of the voltage as possible but essentially you're varying the load impedance to just draw your preferred current
Hi everyone ;D
Try to add two big different metals like ZINC and it will add up some spice ;D
AND PULSE IT! FOR ECONOMICALLY AND EFFICIENCY
enjoy! ;)
Germanium in pure form or Germanium oxide or an equivalent is what you need to play with, not little diodes with very little germanium in them.
I am all for this topic, I trust in it because I know how efficient Germanium is when used.
master the no moving parts concept and you will be on thee top.
Jerry 8)
Hi Experimenters,
If you want to play with diodes and light, may I suggest you to try the BYV96D.
One single diode gives about 150 millivolts under about 50 cm of a 60w desk lamp. I have not measured the current.
It sounds like these diodes are behaving like tiny solar panels.
I was given this trick by an old (= older than me) OU guy.
Very Best
Quote from: onthecuttingedge2005 on July 28, 2011, 10:48:42 PM
Germanium in pure form or Germanium oxide or an equivalent is what you need to play with, not little diodes with very little germanium in them.
I am all for this topic, I trust in it because I know how efficient Germanium is when used.
master the no moving parts concept and you will be on thee top.
Jerry 8)
it depends on the design actually, see edison mastered his dc and see tesla mastered his ac with the moving parts ;D 8)
and judge who's on the thee top you are saying :D
Hi NerzhDishual,
I noticed 1N270 germanium diode produces more power close to an electronic lamp at home but not because of light, but because the lamp seems to be leaking strong electromagnetic waves. Placing an antenna close to it with my germanium diodes far from it, I get 3 Volts and a bit of current. By the way, 1N270 are always around me for an experiment or another.
:o Hi onthecuttingedge :o,
Thank you for the idea. I'm thinking about it.
Hi xee2,
Thank you for testing the RK44. It saves my time. I won't test it.
I'm starting to see diodes in general and germanium diodes in special as eternal power harvesters.
:D Thank you for sharing your ideas! :D
Thanks for the info,
The most important experiment, in my opinion, is the number #6. I remember to see in the net a video called "Free Electricity from Thin Air"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vko8pfnX_w0
It gives power but it takes a lot to charge the caps. I used that circuit (that includes 1N34A germanium diodes) to capture energy from the natural voltage present in the background radiation.
An interesting experiment I made is to replace the Avramenko converter from 1 wire to 2 wires (include 2 diodes BD138 and a 1KV 0.22uF Cap) with the circuit that you can see in the video. And it works. ;D
It should be interesting to test that configuration with the diodes you've suggested (1N270).
A question from experiment number 7. You say that with one 1N270 you can get 0.7uA and 26mV. When you put more diodes in series or parallel, you can increase the total power you get or you get the same power with 1,2,3... ? You say that not significan voltage or current increase has been observed.
A thing I thought is to charge capacitors indepentdly (alone), and then when you want to discharge them, connect them in series or parallel and run a load.
Can you try the same experiment, but instead of using 2 1N270 can you use an antenna and the Avramenko rectifier?
http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/afep1b.jpg
This is how tesla rectified one wire energy to 2 wire energy
http://www.tesla.hu/tesla/articles/18930200/fig16.gif
Today is a sunny day....
I just got 310 millivolts with one BYV96D under the sun.
When I put my fingers on the diode the voltage drops.
In this case it is *not* a matter of of electromagnetism.
Very Best
Quote from: NerzhDishual on July 30, 2011, 08:54:36 AM
Today is a sunny day....
I just got 310 millivolts with one BYV96D under the sun.
When I put my fingers on the diode the voltage drops.
In this case it is *not* a matter of of electromagnetism.
Very Best
what miliamps though? it bugs me that people post voltage with out amps. voltage without amps is NOT power.
Nerzdishaul I am interested in your wattage as well and if you would mind weather or not I posted your results at my own web forum.
Thanks in advance!
-infringer-
www.mopowah.com
Hi Magnethos. :)
QuoteThe most important experiment, in my opinion, is the number #6.
I agree with you. #6 is the most important.
Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vko8pfnX_w0
My friend Assaad and I assembled the very same circuit shown in the video you've posted. With a small antenna, we got voltage aroung 500mV. The interesting thing is: the antenna is a single wire. This circuit rectifies a single wire AC into DC. With just 2 germanium diodes, without any capacitor, you can already start playing with.
QuoteA question from experiment number 7. You say that with one 1N270 you can get 0.7uA and 26mV. When you put more diodes in series or parallel, you can increase the total power you get or you get the same power with 1,2,3... ? You say that not significan voltage or current increase has been observed.
Well. this is a sad story. Placing germanium diodes in parallel doesn't increase current nor voltage. Placing them in series, increase voltage, but current drops fast. I couldn't find any usefulness with more than 2 diodes.
QuoteA thing I thought is to charge capacitors independently (alone), and then when you want to discharge them, connect them in series or parallel and run a load.
I charged 6 capacitors in parallel and then discharged in series using a LED. I got light for some seconds only after half of an hour charging.
About the experiments you suggest, they are a bit out of my current scope (diodes as power source). But in the case you test by yourself, please let me know your results.
Hi Poit :) ,
Quotewhat miliamps though? it bugs me that people post voltage with out amps. voltage without amps is NOT power.
From my experiment #7, follows:
A single 1N270 germanium diode generates 26mV and 0.7uA. I suspect that somehow the measurement device is interfering the experiment as antenna. But it's still an interesting result.
See you soon. ;)
@Infringer
You, of course, can put all you want on your web forum.
Some measurements:
3 diodes in series under the sun = about 1 volt.
I was able to charge a 650 microF cap at about 0.6 volts.
I have not checked the time. A couple of minutes..
3 diodes in parallel, under the sun but later in the day :
285 millivolts (without charge).
These 3 diodes shorted with a 9.8 Kohm resistor: 55 millivolts (= with charge).
So, there is a tiny current.
I will make more experiments and more serious measurements and also some pictures
as soon as (?) the sun is back.
To me, this is not worth a solar panel!
Very Best
Quote from: schuler on July 31, 2011, 09:47:19 AM
Hi Magnethos. :)I agree with you. #6 is the most important.
My friend Assaad and I assembled the very same circuit shown in the video you've posted. With a small antenna, we got voltage aroung 500mV. The interesting thing is: the antenna is a single wire. This circuit rectifies a single wire AC into DC.
I replaced the elevated wire by the output of an car's ignition coil Single wire. It works in the same way :D
:) Hello Experimenters :)
I put the 3 component circuit from experiment 6 in series with a 1.5V battery 10 min ago. Then, I placed my antenna close to an electronic light bulb know to produce voltage in my circuit. Then, I connected a white 3mm LED in series (I placed between the battery and 1 of the germanium diodes). The result is: :o I got a glowing LED!!! :o . It was a weak light.
Unfortunately, I forgot measuring voltage and current. I suspect that the voltage was just above the minimum for this LED that I believe it's around 2.2V. And I'm guessing the current was about 1uA.
Resume: with 2 germanium diodes 1N270, 2m long antenna, one 1.5V battery and one 3mm white LED, I've got a glowing LED!
;D ;D
Three weeks ago, I placed a green 3v LED indicator light on my breadboard to measure the voltage.
My 'power connection' wires were only notional. They were not connected to a battery or power supply. They were just connected to the breadboard (to the +ve and -ve sides of the breadboard) to make it easier to measure any voltage emanating from the LEDs. Out of curiosity I measured the voltage between the terminals of the LED (despite no power being supplied to it) and was surprised to find a small voltage reading which I thought must probably be within the margin of error of the multimeter.
However, when I connected a second LED to the breadboard and measured the voltage again, (keeping the positive LED terminals on the same side) I noticed a small but nonetheless obvious increase in circuit voltage.
Needless to say I immediately connected as many LEDs as I could find to the breadboard (again without any power supply being provided to the circuit). I found that each LED I added increased the voltage picked up by the Multimeter by almost identical increments, and though blue LEDs seemed to caused voltage to fall, green, red and orange LEDS seemed to work quite well).
By cramming 20 LEDs onto the circuit, my first reading was 0.5 volts, however, when I moved the apparatus around the room the voltage varied from between 0.2 volts up to a rather surprising 1.2 volts. At one point I managed 1.6 volts with 25 LEDs.
I tried to add a tiny load to the circuit but no current could be measured. Not even a single milliamp. None of the LEDs ever hit the 2 volts + needed for them to illuminate (they normally operate at about 3v).
Explanation:
The voltage varied as I moved the device around the room. At first I thought the copper base of the breadboard in combination with the wire terminals of the LEDs was supplying a small voltage to the 'circuit' by induction (from the mains electricity supply). I thought this because when I turned off my 240v overhead lights, the voltage of the circuit plummeted to a nominal level. I originally suspected that each LED was forming a coil shape relative to the base of the copper surfaced breadboard, as in a solenoid with N windings.
Some days later, when I repeated the experiment, I realised that the induction explanation was wrong. The reality was that when I moved the breadboard closer to the overhead lights, the voltage increased, and when I covered the LEDs with my hand (shielding them from overhead light) the voltage plummeted to nominal levels. So they were reacting to light rather than picking anything up by induction.
In conclusion, Light Emitting Diodes, though designed to illuminate when circa 3v DC is supplied, also behave as fairly inefficient solar cells (they work backwards as well).
I iterate that I was unable to detect any current whatever, even though I added a tiny load. It is a fun experiment, easily replicated, and I hope it is of some interest to someone.
Yes this is a known effect. LED's in strong sunlight can generate some power and have been known to baffle some people with LED flashlights when facing the Sun in certain cases. They were emitting light even when turned off. Probably a cap inside built up enough voltage to light the LED feeding the cap.
Quote from: e2matrix on March 14, 2012, 01:35:46 AM
Yes this is a known effect. LED's in strong sunlight can generate some power and have been known to baffle some people with LED flashlights when facing the Sun in certain cases. They were emitting light even when turned off. Probably a cap inside built up enough voltage to light the LED feeding the cap.
@e2matrix
I did not know that. Very interesting. With hindsight, what concerns me about my experiment is that I fell into error when first trying to figure out why the phenomenon was happening. I really thought it was due to induction. But it was only by repeating the experiment (several times in fact) that I later came to realise the LEDs were acting as a sort of inefficient solar panel.
The moral of the story is that even the most primitive experiments should be repeated in a variety of conditions. Otherwise, you may be most assured of that of which you are most ignorant.
If ignorance was a criminal offence, I would be serving a life sentence.