Hi! I am new on this site and i would like some info about how to hook more than one coil on my bedini SG. Have been worked on this project for more than a year now and i would to move ahead on to add more coils on my set up.
Do i need transistors on each coils and how do i calibrate ( let say) 3 or 4 coil so they can run (in harmony) I mean how do i get the right timing?
If anyone can help! Thanks
Joe
Sorry if i make mistake on my writing. My english vocabulary is kind of "poor"! I am a french canadian speaking.
Well, I am basicly doing the same thing. I will have 4 magnets on each end of a teflon cyclendar
with 3 stationary coils. Due to the proxcimity of the magnets, the reed relays tend to be excited
at the wrong times. I am using a band of 4 small magnets around the center and then place the
reeds at the prescribed place to make them fire the 3055 transistors for "each" coil. I have found
that trying to put more than one on a transistor tends to heat it and I would prefer to generate as
little heat as possible.
I have a bench top model now that achevies about 1000 rpm and is able to run a small generator
I have no on board generator yet but that is still to come. I have been using about 200 ft of#30 wire
wrap wire around vandium cores and it seems to make a great pulser. These windings are shorted
together on each end to achieve a 10.4 ohm load which draws aprox 300 ma at running speed. On
startup, the pulse length is longer so the transistor is on longer and shows about 750 ma and then
gradually drops off as rmp comes up.
It is my final intention to have the magnet sets offset by 45 degrees as to be pulsing the rotor 24
times per revolution. This should make for over enough charge pulses to keep the second battery
prime.
I would imagine you will be using hall effect for picups but the same principal should work for you.
That is about all I can share at this time. Hope it helps out.
Sugra
Joe,
If you have a different number of coils than you have magnets, you need to establish what exactly your firing order is. It would be a good idea to make two paper wheels. Put dots on the one paper wheel which represent the magnets and what would be their precise location. On the other paper wheel, cut holes where your coils will come. Then place the two paper wheels together with a pin in the middle for your axle, and slowly turn the one which represents your rotor. Depending on how many coils you have relative to the number of magnets, you will notice that the order of firing is not necessarily consecutive.
For instance, I have a rotor with 10 magnets and nine stator coils. When the rotor turns, it is "every other coil" that comes into alignment with magnet; not every consecutive coil. This will have a direct effect on your firing sequence. The paper wheels are a simple way to determine what your sequential firing order will be.
Sugra,
When you say you are using "reed relay" are you talking about the "reed swicth"? Because i have tried it but the voltage rate is low on that device. I think the higher voltage it can take is about 4 to 5 volts. Am i wrong? Or do you have to put a resistor in serie to it so it won't blow up? Cause on my machine i am using 12 volt you see.
Joe
Ronald,
Thanks for the info about the "paper wheel". I sure will experiment it on my new design machine.
Joe
i have used 12v reed switches before they are available from radioshack (asuming they still sell that stuff i bought mine a couple years back)
What I use is a N.O. with a 680 ohm resistor. In use I think that might be not
quite enough. After a while the reed starts sticking closed and then I have to
get another one. Since I am using 6 of them, that gets out of hand quite quick.
I tested my Hall coils and found max of .25 volts so that means I have to use
smaller wire and more of it. Big enough now to get in the way. May just eat it
and use a small transistor to trigger the bigger one. More current used but a
heck of a lot less coil size.
I see in Bedeni's design he puts it right over the top of the pulse coil. I have
to say I would have timing issues with this. No way to tweak the power spot at
all. I want to make sure all pulsers are fireing at the same level so to produce
as much power as I can.
My motor runs on 24v in the end even tho I am testing it at 12v.
Thanks all. Another step closer.
sugra
While at work last nite I got to wondering about optics. On the machine I run it has a timing
bar that runs full length. On both ends it has a chopper wheel and two sensors to make sure
both ends are running. They are really nothing but an optical transistor and a led which could
be used in place of the hall coil. A small wheel with alternate black and reflective surface would
create the switching pulses. Being optic, it would have no problem operating in the magnetic
fields and leaving the extra coil space for the charging circuit.
Have a led on the output of the optic you could be sure it is working as well. Hope this is useful
to someone here. Think it will cure most of my ills for the moment. Chow
Sugra
Just finished my first test of the optics and found that an NTE3032 will directly fire the
3055 and give about a 1 amp draw with fair light. Looks like the end to the reed relay
problem. Much easier to get to work and I have used an old compact disc with tape on
it to reflect the light. Not sure how big of a window to make just yet but experimentation
will tell. It sure could do with a bit of balance tho, call it shakey pete right now. :D
Sugra
I have just found this site and am having timing probs I think I just get the rotor spinning and lose a couple of nte 331 trns's every time .Am using 3- 5 wire coils against 6 ceram mags . I just get her up and 2 or more transistors superheat and stay closed I have burnt through 27 trans's and am in process of going heavier.
Hello guys,
This guy, Doug Konzen seems to have alot of understanding about pulse motor/generators.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHpikCPKPiE
hdbservices, his motors are not shown operating with a load and he is not showing the amps used and the amps returning.
Another thing I see wrong with his as well as other Bedini motors is that the permanent magnets are not large enough, I when I say large I am referring to the surface area. Another problem I see is with the coils. The cores need to be rectangular and the windings need to be wrapped in the same shape. The surface of the magnets need to be at least 3 times the surface size of the coils core. The more larger the magnets surface area, the better. Then the surface area needs to be shaped to fit the wheel and the same goes for the cores surface.
The closer the coil to the magnet, the better.
Then the coil must be activated to repel the magnet just after the magnets center and then shut off at about half way from the end of the throw making sure that the throw has thru it far enough away from the core so the core doesn't attract the magnet that was thrown. The next magnet will be attracted to the core with the effect pulling to the center of the magnet. It will pass the center but then try to come back. That is why you must activate the coil just after the magnets center is passed to create the throwing affect.
Only the part of the throw that is powered is the energy used and the rest of the throw as well as the action is the energy gained. You will loose energy from the drag of the center and that is why it is very important to have the coils activated at the precise moment the center passes.
The next thing that must be done is to collect the back EMF off from the coil after it is shut off. This will help keep the coil cool as well as it will collect the energy that would other wise be lost. This adds to the efficiency of the motor. The rectifier power that is created as well as the back EFM power, can be rerouted back to the power source.
Just keep these things in mind when building a pulse motor and good luck to all of you.
while most of your comments are fairly valid nightlife I dont agree with this one.
" Another thing I see wrong with his as well as other Bedini motors is that the permanent magnets are not large enough, I when I say large I am referring to the surface area. Another problem I see is with the coils. The cores need to be rectangular and the windings need to be wrapped in the same shape. The surface of the magnets need to be at least 3 times the surface size of the coils core. The more larger the magnets surface area, the better. Then the surface area needs to be shaped to fit the wheel and the same goes for the cores surface."
The magnets placed on a monopole wheel are there strictly as a timing mechanism. The larger the magnet the longer/stronger the pulse. While some may desire this in their particular configurations it isnt necessary in JB's monopole. Infact I have had better results with smaller magnets as they create a faster switching time. The magnet need only be big enough to trigger the transistor to fire.I cant speak in regards to Kozens work as I am not too familiar with it.
@ Zott. Im happy to offer suggestions if you can show/explain your configuration/schematic. Without it I am unsure of what may be burning up your transistors. It may be as simple as selecting a higher rated transistor, it may not. If you are using the SG circuit I would suggest getting one coil running smoothly and then adding the others.
Ren, I am not talking about the switching magnets, I am talking about the magnets on the wheel used in the atracting and or repelling affect of the wheel that makes it turn.
@ nightlife. In a reed or hall operated/timed device the switching magnets may be different to the attraction/repulsion magnets. In the monopole and other similar configurations there is only one set of magnets and they perform both tasks. I just wanted to clear that up in relation to Bedini devices.
Ren, I see what you are saying now and I would have to suggest staying away from using the magnets for both.
And why is that?
Ren, because of the length of the pulse time must be different to get passed the gates. If you turn off the power before the magnet gets far enough away for the core to attract the magnet that was thrown, you create a drag which takes away from your efficiency and your wheels rotation speed ability.
You must use separate switching magnets and they must be kept out of the cores attraction and or repelling reach.
You must remember that these motors take precise timing to achieve the best possible efficiency rate. You must eliminate all the drags you can. You should be able to eliminate all but a fraction of the one you get at center. You can not eliminate that one completely but you can limit its drag if precisely timed right.
Here is a example.
If you look at the picture below, you will notice the yellow spots. Those spots are about where the power needs to start being applied and where the power needs to stop being applied. Note that it is not precise and only to be used as a example. Those lines need to be lined up with the center of the coils core. So you see, it is impossible for you to achieve any real efficiency by using the same magnets as the coil uses. The center and the draw back affect are actually longer then the actual length of the magnet.
If you want to use magnets, they will have to be longer and placed away from the coils core attraction points.
Take a magnet of the same size and strength and lay it on the wheel. Now move it along the wheel towards a magnet and mark where it starts to either repel or attract. Then take the measuring magnet away and mark a spot a hair further away from the magnet and that will be where you need to have the power of the coil shut off. Then measure the distance from the center of the magnet to the mark of shut off. Then measure the length of the magnet. You will see that the length of power needed is greater then the length of the magnet and by just using the magnet as a start and stop point, you will still be left with another drag point giving the motor two drag effects instead of one.
You want the end of the shut off point to the start point to be at least a 2 to 1 ratio. Meaning, you want the distance to be at least twice the distance as the start and stop distance with out a load. But you want the end of the throw and the attraction point to over lap. Then you want to create a load that will only use only the distance of the over lap. The distance of the over lap is the energy to have to work with minus the energy used and the drag from the center of the magnet. If you can get that overlap to compensate for the energy loss you will achieve 100% efficiency and if you can overlap to compensate for the energy loss and still have energy left, you will achieve over 100% efficiency and what ever is over, is over unity.
You must also note that the motor's efficiency rate is no good when coupled with a load. The loads efficiency rate must also be accounted for with your overall efficiency rate.
So you see, it is not as easy as people think to achieve over unity with these motors. I think it can be done but it requires extracting energy from thin air to do. To do that, you must find out what energy really is. That?s a whole other topic.
Hang in there and stay tuned because we are getting there.
There is one major flaw to this and that is that the coils core will eventually be magnetized with the polarity matching the polarity that it is being powered to be. The only way to stop that is by switching the polarity?s giving both polarity?s the same time of being polarized.
With that said, the same concept must be used but in a reverse mode. This will take away some of the efficiency but it will add torque to the free movements. The area between points 1 and 2 as well as the area between points 6 and 7, would be the areas of free movement.
This next picture is a updated version to match this concept. Please note that the placement of the triggers are not precise and they would have to be determined using the method mentioned in my last post.
The Bedini energizers I have built all have variable timing via a simple rheostat. This effects when the base is triggered to fire the power coils. I can see exactly what your are saying in your post and it does come into play with a traditional pulse motor. With the monopole you'll actually find the coil fires up to 23 degrees after the passing magnet. In this way it benefits from the repulsion of said magnet along with attraction of the scalar south of the next magnet.
This is not ideal for a motor designed for torque however, where I think the things you covered in your post are more relevant. A pickup coil can also be an easy way to alter timing manually. Check out Hoptoads page in "circuit setups for pulse motors" thread if you havent already. ;)
Here is a small vid of my monopole running on less than 50ma http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ma8Mas50W44
Oh and in regards to your core becoming magnetized over time, try a more suitable material. My core has been running day and night for months and retains no magnetism.
Ren, thank you for that info but this is not a motor that I am attempting to build. I was only trying to help those that were trying to build these types of motors.
I am still not done with my research on what energy really is. I am getting there and once I figure it out for sure, I will then start designing a way of harnessing it so it can be used in forms that we need it for.
From what I have learned, I have a impossible task ahead of me due to the legal aspects of frequency use. I may have to wait for my kids to get out of school and on their own so that when I do build something and it lands me in prison, at least they will be grown and on their own.