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I have been able to develop a solid state device that is generating voltage with NO INPUT.
I am currently generating a stable 850 mv this  and amperage can be scaled to any level of output.
My initial device generated 5-8 mv  and went from that to 30 mv to 325 mv to 500 mv and now at a
steady 850 mv. plus.

The are no moving parts.
No electrical components other than standard + and - leads.
Enviromental factors do not effect its performance.
Absolutly NO input is requried for a constant and scaleable output.

I have been charging up a bank of 12 ea 25v 4900  mf capacitors in tests running from between 1 hr and 12 hr., when the cap bank is removed the voltage will actually increase.


                                                      THIS IS THE REAL DEAL!!!!!!

I will be setting up a public demonstration in Portland Oregon within the next two weeks and the device will be availabe for examination with NO restrictions.
I am currently talking to the Oregon Museum of Science & Industry (OMSI) to host the preview and
I hope to have live internet streaming available.
There will be NO disapointment with the device it works and will work exactly as claimed.
I truely believe this could be the start of something VERY BIG!!!!!!
Bill Mehess

Quote from: billmehess on August 12, 2011, 11:13:05 PM
I have been able to develop a solid state device that is generating voltage with NO INPUT.
I am currently generating a stable 850 mv this  and amperage can be scaled to any level of output.
[...]
Bill Mehess

hi Bill

congratulations on your latest development -  good news!

i realise you mention that the output power can be scaled, but what is the approx minimum Ohms value of resistive load which your device can sustain at the moment without the o/p voltage decreasing over time?

good luck with the museum preview!

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)

Quote from: billmehess on August 12, 2011, 11:13:05 PM
snip...

I truely believe this could be the start of something VERY BIG!!!!!!
Bill Mehess

I hope so. Good luck with the demo.

cheers

Let me the first one to ask the obvious...

HOW DOES IT WORK

I am hopeful this thread won't follow many previous threads, the most recent one being Romerouk's, learn from the mistakes.

Bill
Your a great Man!
Thank you!!

I'd like to be the second to ask.
How do you do that??

Chet

At this time I cannot answer any questions as to how the device works other than to state that it does do exactly what I CLAIM IT WILL DO.
The demo will be completely above board with nothing hidden. Its Sat Am here and I will be gone until this evening.
I am only announcing this two weeks in advance to allow for travel time for those wishing to verify and see the device.
Again and again NO INPUT of any kind !!
Bill

Hi Bill,

Looking forward to learning about how the device works.

One off topic: you suspended the SMOT experiments? Maybe closed the loop?

Thanks,  Gyula

Unable to close the loop on the SMOT got within 3/8", this is a device I was working on concurrently and is not SMOT related.

Quote from: nul-points on August 13, 2011, 03:26:22 AM
hi Bill

congratulations on your latest development -  good news!

i realise you mention that the output power can be scaled, but what is the approx minimum Ohms value of resistive load which your device can sustain at the moment without the o/p voltage decreasing over time?

good luck with the museum preview!

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)

ok - let's ask this a different way...

what is the approx level of max current load your device can sustain at 0.8V at the moment?  Amps, milliAmps, microAmps, picoAmps?

thanks

Quote from: nul-points on August 13, 2011, 09:05:47 AM
ok - let's ask this a different way...

what is the approx level of max current load your device can sustain at 0.8V at the moment?  Amps, milliAmps, microAmps, picoAmps?

thanks

I will have demos showing LEDS being well lit at when the device is shown. Again this is very scaleable to just about any level. I also have a way to increase the current output on a large scale.
At this point I cannot (by choice) answer any technical questions.
I am not trying to be meladramatic the purpose of this posting is to inform and announce a demo in 2 weeks.
Bill

Bill
This will change a lot of things around here,To have a man such as yourself give this freely ,While others plot ways to "Make a Buck"!!

This will change a lot of Things!!

The Game changer...................

I wish I didn't live on the other coast!

WOW!!

Chet.

.

@billmehess,

Hey, great guy!, Congradulations! I was hoping you would succeed with your
closed loop SMOT but this sounds interesting too. I hope the new thing
not based in water electrolyte aluminum electrolytic capacitors. Those
things corrode while they are creating voltages like a battery...try using
tantalum electrolytic capacitors instead.

Also keep safe, and don't allow *any* capacitor to charge above
it's working voltage as they *will* blow. Doing this may require
protection circuits.

I could use me one of those.  :)

:S:MarkSCoffman

Quote from: billmehess on August 13, 2011, 09:21:07 AM
[...]
I am not trying to be meladramatic
[...]
Bill

Really?   ....that's a shame!  :)


...dayyum - i miss ol' Cap'n Pecan!!

Quote from: ramset on August 13, 2011, 09:39:25 AM
Bill
This will change a lot of things around here,To have a man such as yourself give this freely ,While others plot ways to "Make a Buck"!!

This will change a lot of Things!!

The Game changer...................

I wish I didn't live on the other coast!

WOW!!

Chet.

But is he giving it away for free? I don't think thats what he said... the demonstration is free... the examination of the device is free... but the blue prints? not sure... i would like to hear this directly from Bill..... simple question........ is this device going to be absolutely free in all regards? (apart from you actually posting it to everyone lol, i obviously dont mean that) ..... free meaning, blue prints, designs, open source, technical diagrams etc etc.....

look forward to your response

Poit

P.S Please don't respond with what you have to others already about you not being able to disclose the technical specs right now, re-read my post, i am not asking for that right now, i am asking WILL you be offering this in the not so distant future?

Quote from: billmehess on August 13, 2011, 07:28:30 AM
At this time I cannot answer any questions...

At this time... Does that mean, that at some time you are going to disclose fully the device? 

Congrats for your breakthrough Bill M...you are to be commended.

I do hope you have someone prepared to release your info to the public, lest the spooks that troll these sites report your activities intentions.

All too many, with monopoly threatening devices have disappeared or died "unexpectedly" following similar announcements...Stan Meyers for one

Regards...

ATTENTION: Stephen please we need a button that gives us an updated view of posts that this URL does automatically:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?update


ALSO  you don't need an expensive current limiting power supply, just use a light blub in series with the input power.  Light blubs come in many voltage and watts ratings and will only allow their wattage to flow thru them into the circuit your working with.

Bill,  will this device be open source??   I am also NOT asking for info on building it ONLY wish to know IF IT WILL BE OPEN SOURCE??  Portland is a long trip for many to see a non open source device.

lol.. its been a day now and no response from Bill... maybe the spooks have gotten to him already :P

Fellahs
Bill is a man of integrity,he has always done whatever he said!
@poit
He said earlier that he was going out for the day and wouldn't be home till evening!

This is gonna be big Boyz
The game changer..........

Chetkremens@gmail.com

Quote from: Hope on August 13, 2011, 03:46:58 PM
Bill,  will this device be open source??   I am also NOT asking for info on building it ONLY wish to know IF IT WILL BE OPEN SOURCE??  Portland is a long trip for many to see a non open source device.

Bill, I have to agree with this question -- will we be required to sign a "non-disclosure agreement" before seeing your breakthrough device?  I would consider the long drive from Utah if you're interested in PEOPLE throughout the world getting the power from your invention. 

Congratulations!  and please keep in mind that the next step -- Empowering the People (rather than enriching the power-elite) is SO very important. 
If one is just going to SELL out to the greedy power-elite, I'm not sure I can help.  BUT  I do have some ideas on HOW   YOU the inventor can turn a fair and large profit WITHOUT selling your invention to the power-elite (who would likely keep it away from the people for years and years). 
StevenEJones

Whatever!

Ok I just go home and read all the posts. Here are my intentions:
I plan to start a company to develop and market this device even though I  have a provisional patent it is so very simple that anyone could build one of the modules in less than 10 minutes.
Everything it takes could be purchased off the shelf at any ACE Hardware store for less than $20.00.
I know all this is hard to swallow but it took me a long time and over 143 different incarnations to develop a working device.
Sometimes breakthru things just happen.
At the I know that a provisional patent which makes the device legally "patent pending" still will allow anyone to build it. Of course my patent pending would not even be relevant outside the US.
I would like to make the device available to everyone. There are millions of people in the world that a single light in their darkness would make all the difference for a better life.
There are things going on I can't tell you about so please be patient with me.
At the demo as I have stated I will openly answer all questions and show exactly how the device works. No NDA they are really not enforceable anyway.
Also please no folishness about MIB!
I do not in anyway consider myself important hopefully the work is!
Lets all work together for our fellow man.
Bill

Quote from: billmehess on August 13, 2011, 10:17:46 PM
Ok I just go home and read all the posts. Here are my intentions:
I plan to start a company to develop and market this device even though I  have a provisional patent it is so very simple that anyone could build one of the modules in less than 10 minutes.
Everything it takes could be purchased off the shelf at any ACE Hardware store for less than $20.00.
I know all this is hard to swallow but it took me a long time and over 143 different incarnations to develop a working device.
Sometimes breakthru things just happen.
At the I know that a provisional patent which makes the device legally "patent pending" still will allow anyone to build it. Of course my patent pending would not even be relevant outside the US.
I would like to make the device available to everyone. There are millions of people in the world that a single light in their darkness would make all the difference for a better life.
There are things going on I can't tell you about so please be patient with me.
At the demo as I have stated I will openly answer all questions and show exactly how the device works. No NDA they are really not enforceable anyway.
Also please no folishness about MIB!
I do not in anyway consider myself important hopefully the work is!
Lets all work together for our fellow man.
Bill

I say Hurray! No NDA is appropriate -- thank you.
Patent pending: this might help, yes, as long as the USPTO doesn't "shut you down" for some reason.   I worked to obtain a "patent pending"/applied for a patent without pursuing the patent on my invention of a solar funnel cooker well over a decade ago, to discourage any company from attempting to patent the device in such a way as to "control" it.  Then I encouraged people and small companies to build the solar cooker freely, around the world -- and it worked! (google "Dr BYU" for more info on the solar cooker I invented.)

I appreciate your attitude, Bill.  Pls note that there are several devices forthcoming (per the evidence that I've seen) that will complement yours in that they will scale up to several kW... but cost more than $20!

A man Who toils to shine a light in the darkness,who lives by example!

Humbleing ...........very Humbleing.

We Salute you sir!!

Chet

Just a poultry 8 miles from me. Guess I need to put in for the day off.

thay

If that's all there is to the thread I suggest to put it on lock untill perhaps a few days before the demo or else this thread will turn out unnecessarily ugly and change the inventors mind.

  Bill -- can you provide the time and address of the demonstration so those who can be there can attend?  Sounds like it may attract local media attention also...  which could be a good thing if done properly.

It's Sunday morning here in Oregon I will lock down a demo location  ASAP I will be talking to OMSI on Monday and see where that goes. If  that does not work out I will secure a location at Portland State University in Portland. My son is a PHD  student there. Don't worry finding a spot is no problem.
The device is puring along this morning at a steady 867 mv.
Brcause of that lower voltage I can only use it to charge capactors but no matter how long it runs after I remove the cap. it will in effect "recharge" itself back up into the mid 800's
Some info:
The device does not get hot or even warm no matter how long it runs
No emissions of any kind
No sound because there are no running parts.
No liquids or electroytes used
The device is completely dry
Each module is very light weight
Runs at room temperature equally well in the light or dark
There is nothing in its "build" that will run down it could run for years
It is not a capacitor variation. A cap. does not produce power it stores it from an input, this device is generating its own voltage.

For the demo I am going to increase its output.
I am sure a lot of people are saying that this is all nonscence. I can assure you everything I have said I have carefully thought out. Sometimes inovations just happen.

                               "Haste is the mother of failure and greed it's father"

I will keep you adviced.
Bill

Bill,

As a means of providing a more convincing demonstration, you may want to consider scaling up (if necessary) to fully drive a small incandescent bulb rather than some LEDs.

http://www.optimalighting.com/USHIO-SM-8-G103-6V-1W-Incandescent-Lamp-4877-prod.htm

LEDs are too "easy" to drive to what appears to be full brightness. If folks see an incandescent bulb glowing brightly, you'll have yourself a very tight and convincing demonstration.

.99

  It's all very intriguing, Bill.
Yesterday you wrote,

QuoteAlso please no foolishness about MIB!

As you wish, but I would still recommend a cautionary approach... Would you consider providing the information/details to a few trusted new-energy researchers with instructions to disclose the information on a certain date (after your Portland-announcement date), if "something happens"?  Either a schematic + photos, or a short video? What would that hurt?

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 14, 2011, 10:17:58 AM

  It's all very intriguing, Bill.
Yesterday you wrote,
As you wish, but I would still recommend a cautionary approach... Would you consider providing the information/details to a few trusted new-energy
researchers with instructions to disclose the information
on a certain date (after your Portland-announcement date), if "something happens"?  Either a schematic + photos, or a short video? What would that hurt?

@bilmehess,

I agree with the above, to generally prevent public
embarrassment due to potential mis-analysis
of results, which is a problem for anyone human.

Also for me, who already has an idea of various
methodologies that can be used achieve our goal
to some extent;

It would be useful if I could have an idea of the top
level principle methodology so I can attribute what I
am experiencing to something as I/we proceed, rather
then just "overunity energy" generally, which is kind
of a board field and boring.

I will say that each one of these things gives an
opportunity to be done correctly from a scientific
point of view and to transfer value due to
potential education of public.

:S:MarkSCoffman

deleted

Hi Bill,

Great stuff man! Watching this with great interest!!

I must concur with JouleSeekers suggestion in post #31.

My advice would be to make a video that shows all components, processes, theory and operation. Leave nothing out. Convert the video to .avi format. Leave copies with trusted friends and instruct to upload via a torrent under certain conditions. Only brief face to face and not over communication networks.

http://forum.mininova.org/index.php?showtopic=234992250

http://torrentfreak.com/how-to-create-a-torrent/

Some basic information on torrents.

The best torrent client out there and always has been is Utorrent:

http://www.utorrent.com/

Utorrent will manage the download from sites such as isohunt and the piratebay which act as a searchable library:

http://isohunt.com/

http://thepiratebay.org/

Finally have multiple versions of the file available under different names that have no relation to the subject matter. Ensure that there is a method for these names to become known. Also include names that nobody but you knows and just fire the torrents out there, people will come across them.

A torrent cannot be stopped, traced or otherwise interfered with. It is the ultimate failsafe. This is why the corporate machine has been unable to stop illegal downloading of copyrighted files.

Your comment that MIB is nonsense is naïve. In my opinion you have created a potential difficulty for yourself in stating publicly that you have a simple, cheap, OU device and are about to publicly disclose this with full build instructions. Please take the necessary steps to protect yourself.

Also have copies of the file in .avi on disc ready to mail to “interested parties” such as fellow OU researchers sitting with your sleepers. This means that a separate network, that is difficult to intercept, will disseminate your information.

I admire your spirit of cooperation and sharing and fully support you. It is time for the common man to unite and have a hand in the game.

I wish you well,

RM :)

Bill,  congratulations on this phenomenal discovery.   I have just one question and one thing to say.  Do you consider this to be scaleable in a way that will be affordable and real world usable?  I'd be excited about it either way but if this could eventually provide even part of the power for a home in an affordable way then it's a real winner. 

    I also concur with what many have said above here.  While it's good to think positive you don't need to focus on the bad but simply need to be aware of the fact you may be on the radar of less than friendly sub-human types.  You just need a plan in place that cannot be stopped and by stating that here and anywhere else you've posted this you will be in a much better and safer position.  Do not think for a minute that multi-billion dollar companies will not try to protect their profits from any potential threat.  I have seen this with absolute certainty. 

With all do respect to the members here ,This is not captainpecan's first summer
He is a veteran of OU, quite aware of the "Lore" ,And most definitely knows his stuff!!

With respect
Chetkremens@gmail.com

Quote from: ramset on August 14, 2011, 01:50:03 PM
With all do respect to the members here ,This is not captainpecan's first summer
He is a veteran of OU, quite aware of the "Lore" ,And most definitely knows his stuff!!

With respect
Chetkremens@gmail.com

The reason that the good members here echoed my caution to Bill, was because of his reference to his comment that the 'caution' was "nonsense".

He did not indicate any precautions taken to that end.

Regards...

Hi everyone,

I am sure that I, and the other members here meant no disrespect to Bill :)

Personally I was concerned with an apparent bla'se' approach that may not serve the intended purpose and simultaneously protect Bill. The suggestions offered by me were in good faith and as an appendant for consideration to any strategy that Bill may have in place.

It also serves to educate younger members reading these pages that may otherwise form the opinion that there is nothing to worry about when challenging the status quo.

An overunity device so simple, and so obvious, will tear down the very fabric that our society's paradigm is built upon, and therefore, has serious consequences!

RM :)

@Bill:
I must agree with all of the others who are advocating proceeding with caution.  To invent such a device as yours is EXTREEMLY rare.  Many have toiled for 30 plus years and are still without a working prototype. 

My old man was around when Goodyear bought out the Red Line commuter train project because they were afraid the commuter rail would cause a decline in the sales of their tires.  The project was bought out only to be completely scrapped.  To hell with the commuters.

MIB may be the wrong term here.  Think in terms of more like scared business owners from various industries (oil industry, automotive industry, electricity utilities, etc.).

I admire your courage and conviction in sharing with your fellow man that which you have discovered.  This sounds very revolutionary.  Even more rare than your invention is your noble intentions and warm heart.

Best wishes,
Joe

Not to worry all you good people all the necessry safeguards have been met.
I will have a location for the demo nailed down in the next few days.
I have received a number of request for direct contact- no problem for me
Bill Mehess
excel60@hotmail.com
503-3669135

Bill
It was a pleasure speaking with you ,I probably won't sleep
Forever now...........................
Folks Hold onto your Hats Its gonna be a wild ride ;D

Chetkremens@gmail.com

Thank you Chet
I was honered by your call!

Bill

Can't wait I live just over the hill in Bend ;D

@Bill,
When you say you are starting a company and going to manufacture it etc.... does that mean you will have the sole rights to it? I am confused, you say you are waiting for a patent pending status.... you also say you are starting a company.... then you say people can build this with off the shelf hardware from a hardware shop? Please, for the thick headed like my self, could you spell out a simple answer. is the average person (anywhere on the planet) going to be able to get instructions on how to build this device - in the not so distant future, simple yes or no please....

Thank you,
Poit

Poit
After Having spoken with Bill about this.......
It is everything you could ask for ,he is giving this to the world Open Source .............
  Does he hope to make a buck ? Hopefully ,Some how,

Is that the reason he's bringing it to us?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
Your posts sound like a man that doesn't believe this could be true,that there could be men like Bill Who would be so Selfless............

Meet Bill Mehess ,Human Being Extraordinaire.
By this yardstick will men be measured........

Has he put checks in place to stop Naredowells?
You Got That Right!!

Chet
PS
And Speaking of Measuring ,I can hear them sharpening their "Rulers" Chomping at the bit ,[the measurerers out there].
But how do you measure something that makes power with No Input?

Hey Chet,

Easy now fella ;)

Poit's post was perfectly reasonable and logical. I was wondering the same thing myself. The reason for that is because “normally” open source and starting a company to manufacture a product do not play well together.

However in this case it appears to be different.

With a product that is so cheap and simple and can be built quickly then it makes sense to form a company with the ability to provide large numbers to those that want them. It also makes sense to patent it to prevent big business patenting it, and then hiding it away from the world.

If Bill open sources the details then it will not stop people building their own, if they have the skills, but it is surprising the amount of people that cannot even wire a plug. Changing a light bulb is also beyond some people. So they would need to buy one.

I believe it will be a very effective strategy for dissemination to both the skilled and unskilled. I also have no objection to Bill making a $ from all his hard work either, he deserves it!

This is really exciting, did not sleep well last night... was trying to classify a device with Zero Input...

0 / 0.8V = 0.8V

?

RM :)

P.S. Just seen your edit... now is that not spooky! synchronicity at it's finest   ;D

RM
So the sleeplessness Spreads............

Commerce and making money has successfully stifled every OU device to date.
Patents NDA's Etc...........

We've never been this way before.............

I meant no Poke at Poit ,Just acknowledging the obvious
Bill is a man Apart.......

Chet

Hi everyone,

The reason I had a restless night is this:

An overunity device is normally classified by standard efficiency calculation...

Power In / Power Out = Efficiency %

A device can be classified this way and is either underunity, unity, or overunity...

<100%... =100%... >100%

The problem here is that the device is most definitely overunity, producing more power out than in, but without a value for power in it defies classification by the OU % model as I understand it.

So if we classify it as a Free Energy device, which it most certainly is, as User Input = Zero, we also cannot calculate it's efficiency without a Power In value.

In the example of a solar panel it is possible to measure the amount of sunlight hitting the panel giving you a power in value, and it is possible to calculate the efficiency of conversion of that total light to electrical output, giving you a power out value.

A solar panel is typically about 20% efficient and so is underunity, but as user input = zero, that 20% is free energy to the user.

In the case of Bill's device it is both overunity and free energy but no efficiency calculation is possible as User Power In = Zero, and, Environment Power In = Unknown

So, at this stage it must be assumed that power available to the system from the Environment is infinity, and therefore power out from the system also is infinity â€" conversion losses.

It will be very important to scientifically analyse the relationship between all components of the system to see if there is a particular factor that affects the relationship (ie resistance etc).

And also if the scaling up process demonstrates linear or non-linear trends for each particular factor.

This is just a preliminary overview of what gave me a restless night, and I know that a lot of you understand this. I wrote this for the people that are learning and just getting into the subject who might otherwise attribute my sleepness night to too much coffee :)

RM :)

Quote from: Poit on August 15, 2011, 05:16:39 AM
@Bill,
When you say you are starting a company and going to manufacture it etc.... does that mean you will have the sole rights to it? I am confused, you say you are waiting for a patent pending status.... you also say you are starting a company.... then you say people can build this with off the shelf hardware from a hardware shop? Please, for the thick headed like my self, could you spell out a simple answer. is the average person (anywhere on the planet) going to be able to get instructions on how to build this device - in the not so distant future, simple yes or no please....

Thank you,
Poit

I understand the confusion let me clearify this. I have the patent pending in place so that I will be able to form a company to hopefully develop the full potential of the device. A company and a patent pending allows me a vehicle to go into the market place and make available this innovation.
It is absolutly imperative to my marketing strategy that the device be reproduced though by anyone who wishes to, I will at the demo provide ALL information to this end.
I would simply like a mechinism in place to put the halt to any commercialization. PLEASE BUILD AWAY!.
Also I realize the limitation of the patent pending. It is only good in the US.  So I am sure it will be jumped on in the other 90% of the world. Even if I had a international patent (which would take years to get) we all know that the Chinese would knock it off anyway.
Again at the demo everything will be revealed-EVERYTHING and personal replication will be encourged. After the demo I will launch a wbsite and  make detailed plans and upgrades available at a very nominal cost.
The reason for this is to simply be able to fund the business and not have to take in investment money which would be its very nature would stifle development.
I hope no one can find fault with this. It's very clear to me that this is a viable path.

I am not a negative person I believe that mankind can prevail, I do not belief that all is lost, our greatest danger is to give up  and not realize our greater potential. Humans have faced great and terrible times thoughout history and they have alway come though. This most difficult time will be no different.

My goal is to develop a company who's goal is to bring to the light of day to innovative energy devices
and my "shareholders" will be all of mankind.

Best of Luck with this Bill.

Your approach is the right one. I have often toyed with the problem of 'control' of ones own invention. and when it comes to OU the best control I believe is no control. Count how many patents have succeeded in the past. I cant even get to 1.

If such a device is not replicated by many people it will be forever pushed into the fringe and may never see the light of day. My own intention should any of my hare brain schemes pay off is to market them on eBay or similar as educational toy's. no-one can stop you then and if you give a money back guarantee you are sure to sell a lot. Not that I am saying you should do this, you know the best choice for you.

As for fame You will always be the inventor. fame will find you.

Mind you I don't think I'd post my phone number and email address in the open. That I believe is a mistake. there are a lot of nutters out there and they don't even work for the government. If I can give some advice it would be to take that post down.


CC

This is good news.

1) What are the values of the caps you are loading?

2) 20$ of ACE Hardware stuff and it being so simple to make indicates that this a Level 1 device. You see the hottest potato is Level 1. A Level 5 would be a rather complicated design requiring specialized skills and precision so useability worldwide goes down and hence attracts less attention and stress. Yours is so simple for 20$. This is a Level 1 device and my only suggestion is that you disclose it to the world openly, fully, precisely and freely AS SOON AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Don't patent it, don't guard it. Your sanity will depend on you abdicating all interest and disclosing it to the world immediately. I say immediately because any second after you know this will be a waste in time. The great men will give of themselves and know that such a hot potato, although tempting to want to break the wild bronco that all eventually get thrown off of only to hit the hard ground, hence could never be kept secret or saddled, so there could be 100 replications in one week. Then the world will know and you will not have to say one more word. So again, my only responsible suggestion is that you should disclose it to open source immediately in full disclosure. Everything to everyone at the same time so no one can say they were not told. Either that or ever second thereafter could be considered a waste. I am sure you are not surprised of this stance since this is an open source forum on OU devices.

If you are worried about your dues, don't be and it will come. It will come to you as you picture it logically. Anyone willing to manufacture this will know your name and your worth will be set aside. But let the world figure it out instead of you trying to dictate your terms. Patenting this in the USA and not anywhere else is only going to stifle the USA while the world just jumps all over it and overtakes any effort you can try to make. You are only one man, but one that can make so much difference that it cannot be regulated to monetization procedures. So any attempt to commercialize this is simply futile. Just give it for free. Ouch. No one should have to say those words. That's why only a few will. A consolation. Within 3-6 months your device will be considered obsolete once the principle is understood and applied to other conditions, so by the time you painstakingly try to control the commercial side of this, by the time you get ready you will already be obsolete. This one fact should explain to you that you will never be able to control this so just let it go for free and enjoy the "founder" designation that will ride above all this and outlast everything else you can try to do.

wattsup

PS: I am not going to post anything else on this thread because I do not want to take part in any advancement of anything that is not clear from the beginning. I have had it with Romero style scenarios and am only working on my own devices from now on.

Quote from: wattsup on August 15, 2011, 10:03:20 AM
This is good news.

1) What are the values of the caps you are loading?

2) 20$ of ACE Hardware stuff and it being so simple to make indicates that this a Level 1 device. You see the hottest potato is Level 1. A Level 5 would be a rather complicated design requiring specialized skills and precision so useability worldwide goes down and hence attracts less attention and stress. Yours is so simple for 20$. This is a Level 1 device and my only suggestion is that you disclose it to the world openly, fully, precisely and freely AS SOON AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Don't patent it, don't guard it. Your sanity will depend on you abdicating all interest and disclosing it to the world immediately. I say immediately because any second after you know this will be a waste in time. The great men will give of themselves and know that such a hot potato, although tempting to want to break the wild bronco that all eventually get thrown off of only to hit the hard ground, hence could never be kept secret or saddled, so there could be 100 replications in one week. Then the world will know and you will not have to say one more word. So again, my only responsible suggestion is that you should disclose it to open source immediately in full disclosure. Everything to everyone at the same time so no one can say they were not told. Either that or ever second thereafter could be considered a waste. I am sure you are not surprised of this stance since this is an open source forum on OU devices.

If you are worried about your dues, don't be and it will come. It will come to you as you picture it logically. Anyone willing to manufacture this will know your name and your worth will be set aside. But let the world figure it out instead of you trying to dictate your terms. Patenting this in the USA and not anywhere else is only going to stifle the USA while the world just jumps all over it and overtakes any effort you can try to make. You are only one man, but one that can make so much difference that it cannot be regulated to monetization procedures. So any attempt to commercialize this is simply futile. Just give it for free. Ouch. No one should have to say those words. That's why only a few will. A consolation. Within 3-6 months your device will be considered obsolete once the principle is understood and applied to other conditions, so by the time you painstakingly try to control the commercial side of this, by the time you get ready you will already be obsolete. This one fact should explain to you that you will never be able to control this so just let it go for free and enjoy the "founder" designation that will ride above all this and outlast everything else you can try to do.

wattsup

PS: I am not going to post anything else on this thread because I do not want to take part in any advancement of anything that is not clear from the beginning. I have had it with Romero style scenarios and am only working on my own devices from now on.

This is the reason why I MUST have the patent protection if only in the US. If I do not any group could patent it (and they will) and shelve it. Its simply a proceedure to keep it from being
surpressed.
This is different its open source to all but suppression to none.
Bill

Quote from: billmehess on August 15, 2011, 10:27:01 AM
This is the reason why I MUST have the patent protection if only in the US. If I do not any group could patent it (and they will) and shelve it.

This is not correct.

If an inventor discloses the invention, then it cannot subsequently
be patented. (Unless, of course, the patent application pre-dates
the date of the disclosure).

Paul-R

Quote from: Paul-R on August 15, 2011, 11:19:02 AM
This is not correct.

If an inventor discloses the invention, then it cannot subsequently
be patented. (Unless, of course, the patent application pre-dates
the date of the disclosure).

Paul-R

I have not yet disclosed the invention and the patent pending is in place

Quote from: Paul-R on August 15, 2011, 11:19:02 AM

If an inventor discloses the invention, then it cannot subsequently
be patented. (Unless, of course, the patent application pre-dates
the date of the disclosure).

Paul-R

Yes I agree. This is something I looked into extensively before releasing all of my own work. If an invention is fully disclosed in the public domain before a patent is applied for, it is classed as "prior art", and cannot subsequently be patented in that form.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art

http://inventors.about.com/od/definations/g/prior_art.htm

In my particular case I chose to open source all of my work in the public domain, including full design schematics and all theory, so that it would be classed as prior art. This served two purposes, firstly it allows anyone interested to build a prototype, and secondly it prevents anyone from patenting the device based on my work and then gaining control of it.

In order to protect my work and ensure it was in the hands of the people I had to relinquish complete control of it, and give it away. "Prior Art" was the only way I could see this working, not having a prototype to present to the patent office. However, I never intended to patent at all, right from the start. I refuse to play "their" games.

The thing about a US patent is... If a big corporation copies your device, mass produces it, and undercuts you in the market place... will you have the funds to mount a patent challenge lawsuit ? So they will go ahead and manufacture it anyway knowing if you challenge them you will bankrupt yourself and also create a huge amount of stress for yourself being tied up in court for years.

RM :)

P.S. The other possibility that I see is that having provided all of the information required to get a patent pending status from the patent office, you may find that a National Security Seal is slapped on it. You would then be prohibited from disclosing the invention publicly, and if you ignored them and did so, might find yourself being prosecuted and going to prison. I suppose that depends on whether you think the patent office is obligated to inform the government of potential threats to National Security... or not ?

Having announced an intention to fully publicly disclose the invention in 2 weeks time or so, between now and then is the window which they have to act if the above scenario is chosen to suppress the invention. Not trying to scare you, just offering my opinion on the possibilities.

RM :)

@All

I somewhat dis-agree with what is being stated. A patent is an opportunity
to find and sue someone who builds a non-theoretically derived version
of the manufactured device. Often at extreme costs to the patenter. So it
really needs to work as part of a corporate stratedgy towards “global”
dominance. For example; The Bell System. It doesn’t preclude someone
from  understanding  the theory of operation and redesigning it according
to potentially improved knowledge of competitive methods conditions
that follows from the development of the device itself.

And it give the opportunity for moneyed interests to purchase the design
and often shelve it, if they desire. Leaving only the rumor of the device
operation.

---

A better approach would allow one to get multiple eyes on the physical conditions
surrounding the device to prevent MIB’s from changing the characteristic of
substances and subcomponents that go into the device. This value is created,
and happens by allowing unassociated persons to have a reasonable personal
interest and share in the developmental success of the device.

In the words of one of the founders of Intel: “You succeed by making a device
that works, and then you pin it up for the world to see and paint a target around
it…then you surf the waves of success from increasing the utility derived from
devices functionality.”

Because of this I feel the simplified intent of the original inventor often fails
as these two different behaviors tend to be inverse complements of one another. 

:S:MarkSCoffman

It's all under control-don't worry.
Bill

Bill
Last week I became a grandpa ,I made a conscious decision to be Happy,

This week I feel like another baby is about to be Born
Knowing How you feel about this ,and the skills inherent to you.
It allows me to make the same decision.

"Don't Worry" Be Happy............

We're in your corner Bill,Swing for the bleachers!!

Chet

Glad to hear it Bill  ;D

Congratulations Chet!  ;D

Don't Worry Be Happy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjnvSQuv-H4

RM :)

Quote from: evolvingape on August 15, 2011, 08:01:40 AM
Hi everyone,

The reason I had a restless night is this:

An overunity device is normally classified by standard efficiency calculation...

Power In / Power Out = Efficiency %

A device can be classified this way and is either underunity, unity, or overunity...

<100%... =100%... >100%

The problem here is that the device is most definitely overunity, producing more power out than in, but without a value for power in it defies classification by the OU % model as I understand it.

So if we classify it as a Free Energy device, which it most certainly is, as User Input = Zero, we also cannot calculate it's efficiency without a Power In value.

In the example of a solar panel it is possible to measure the amount of sunlight hitting the panel giving you a power in value, and it is possible to calculate the efficiency of conversion of that total light to electrical output, giving you a power out value.

A solar panel is typically about 20% efficient and so is underunity, but as user input = zero, that 20% is free energy to the user.

In the case of Bill's device it is both overunity and free energy but no efficiency calculation is possible as User Power In = Zero, and, Environment Power In = Unknown

So, at this stage it must be assumed that power available to the system from the Environment is infinity, and therefore power out from the system also is infinity â€" conversion losses.

It will be very important to scientifically analyse the relationship between all components of the system to see if there is a particular factor that affects the relationship (ie resistance etc).

And also if the scaling up process demonstrates linear or non-linear trends for each particular factor.

This is just a preliminary overview of what gave me a restless night, and I know that a lot of you understand this. I wrote this for the people that are learning and just getting into the subject who might otherwise attribute my sleepness night to too much coffee :)

RM :)

RM -- You wrote,
Power In / Power Out = Efficiency %


I'm quite sure you wrote the ratio UPSIDE DOWN; it should be:

Power OUT   / Power IN = Efficiency %


  Power in comes from -- gasoline (in a generator) or the sun (solar panels) or the grid (e.g., for an invertor), battery (flashlight), etc.

In Bill's case, his "power in" is ZERO, so the efficiency becomes VERY large ("infinite").  That's what makes this so exciting.

Bill -- it looks indeed like you're doing this with an altruistic and anti-suppression approach -- which is what I and many have also espoused.  WONDERFUL!    (This is what I did with my solar-funnel cooker invention nearly 20 years ago; patent applied for, but no patent, and then we spread the details of HOW TO world wide.  Now the solar funnel cooker is ALL OVER the globe, particularly Haiti, Bolivia, Phillipines, Kenya, etc.) -- cooking food cheaply for families.)

I would add -- encourage RAPID replications and announcements of successful replications, and encourage getting these into the LOCAL media such as newspapers, TV news -- and YouTube etc. 

Then this could go viral.
(And unstoppable by the globalist-power-controllers  even, I think.)

Expect opposition even then (e.g. -- "impossible -- perpetual motion -- BAH-Humbug" and "fraud"), but these voices can be quickly overcome by experimental proofs -- replications -- and appropriate media attention.

Very exciting.

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 15, 2011, 01:12:05 PM
RM -- You wrote,
Power In / Power Out = Efficiency %


I'm quite sure you wrote the ratio UPSIDE DOWN; it should be:

Power OUT   / Power IN = Efficiency %

Yes your right... Good spot... oops...  :-[

Thanks for pointing that out... I had not noticed ;)

RM :)

Good luck Bill,
I enjoyed the talk we had this AM on the phone. I am looking forward to the live demo.
Keep your head down and watch your back.
Doug

P.S. are there others in the Portland OR. area who would like to get together and discuss what we are doing? I am in Jefferson, OR. We could meet at Bills' demo?
I know we all wish the best for Bill! These are exciting times. Maybe we will see "Galt's Gulch" yet. lol

Hi Guys,

This post is just to get notifications.  :P

BTW : this Bill Mehess's mysterious device sounds great. I can't wait.

Very Best

Quote from: billmehess on August 15, 2011, 09:11:28 AM< snip <

Again at the demo everything will be revealed-EVERYTHING and personal replication will be encourged. After the demo I will launch a wbsite and  make detailed plans and upgrades available at a very nominal cost. < snip <

I fully encourage this idea and would be glad to purchase plans to support you as well as making this device myself. 

    I still am concerned in the ways evolvingpage is about some things stated.  Have you considered an open source GNU style patent?  This would avoid the possibility of the NoSuchAgency slapping you down immediately with a national security order.  But then I guess you already have the patent app?  I'm not sure if it hits their radar until it's in the P.O. 
     
    My other concern is what has been stated here concerning defending patents.  All very true if it's you-the-little-guy versus a big corporation. 

    I'm hoping your deal at OMSI works out.  I had a science project there long ago and really like that place. 

     I hate to add more to your plate right now but I haven't seen this specifically mentioned.  And having awareness can help planning but I sincerely hope it does not add to any stress.  Here is the deal - I've been involved in a specific electronic based tech for many years as a hobby.  I have seen many people stateside try to build and manufacture some of this tech to sell.  In every case it took them roughly 1 to 2 years to get it out the door.  Repeatedly the Chinese were latching onto the same new ideas and new component upgrades and getting it out the door in about 1 or 2 months.  And with good quality in most cases and in some cases even better than the U.S. made products.  So if this hits the radar over in China they'll have a product going full production and available to sell for cheap before you can even setup for production.  I welcome any ideas anyone may have to prevent this.  I may be wrong but I think it's a scenario to at least be aware of. 

Quote from: e2matrix on August 15, 2011, 01:53:54 PM
I fully encourage this idea and would be glad to purchase plans to support you as well as making this device myself. 

    I still am concerned in the ways evolvingpage is about some things stated.  Have you considered an open source GNU style patent?  This would avoid the possibility of the NoSuchAgency slapping you down immediately with a national security order.  But then I guess you already have the patent app?  I'm not sure if it hits their radar until it's in the P.O. 
     
    My other concern is what has been stated here concerning defending patents.  All very true if it's you-the-little-guy versus a big corporation. 

    I'm hoping your deal at OMSI works out.  I had a science project there long ago and really like that place. 

     I hate to add more to your plate right now but I haven't seen this specifically mentioned.  And having awareness can help planning but I sincerely hope it does not add to any stress.  Here is the deal - I've been involved in a specific electronic based tech for many years as a hobby.  I have seen many people stateside try to build and manufacture some of this tech to sell.  In every case it took them roughly 1 to 2 years to get it out the door.  Repeatedly the Chinese were latching onto the same new ideas and new component upgrades and getting it out the door in about 1 or 2 months.  And with good quality in most cases and in some cases even better than the U.S. made products.  So if this hits the radar over in China they'll have a product going full production and available to sell for cheap before you can even setup for production.  I welcome any ideas anyone may have to prevent this.  I may be wrong but I think it's a scenario to at least be aware of.

I could build and get one of these "out the door" within 1 day. Hopefully I will need to get more than one out the door per day. It would be nice to be able to give people jobs to do this.
That really is the whole idea anyway isn't it?

No disrespect meant:
This device must not be placed in any government document. You do this and they are part of the bargain. Laws will be shown in violation.
You mentioned commercialization. In economic terms that means a transfer of money. I specifically state the term money as to not declare a country of basis.

You apply for a patent. The government now has an interest on their behalf, not yours.
You attain a business license. The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.
You accept a country's denomination. The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.

You have specifically mentioned involvement with all 3. The government now has  an interest(x3) on their behalf, not yours.

Is the college of your presentation a U.S. accredited college? The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.

Is the PHD you mentioned honored by a U.S. accredited college? The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.

Does this college receive state or federal aid? The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.

Have you posted this information using U.S. owned, licensed equipment or protocols? The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.

Are you transporting this technology on state or federally owned transit ways? The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.

Do you have a license to operate the type of equipment you have announced on state or federal property? The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.

Does this technology stop U.S. citizens from exercising their freedoms? The government now has  an interest on their behalf, not yours.
Say what? Yes, that is correct. The U.S. government has permitted it's citizens to transport a publicy sold explosive chemical on state or funded transit ways in personally licensed, sanctified carriers. You bought that permit by the exercise of tranferrence of federal notes from a licensed payroll distribution entity to a licensed retail distribution entity for the purchase of gasoline. All three entities are licensed to perform at their level of tasks. The public is permitted to transfer monetary denominations between the other two licensed entities.

Was there an advertisement of a new power source not licensed by any governement? The government now has an interest on their behalf, not yours. Where the hell are your feet right now? What are you on standing on right now? Federal property by law of emminent domain. The process where the government has the right to purchase at fair market value or confiscation by seizure should there be an assessment of emminent danger to its citizens. By threatening the government sanctified life style and freedoms of any U.S. citizen you are now under the protection of federal authorities whereby you will isolated to protect the public and yourself from yourself.

By displacing the federally sanctioned ways of transit you have become a terrorist.
By disabling the oil distribution chain you have become a terrorist.
You have threatened to disrupt the world ecomony. You have become a terrorist.
You openly stated you would pay others to propagate this unlicensed technology. You are now recruiting terrorists.


Do we all now have a clue? We are pablum fed prisoners to start with.

Quote from: billmehess on August 15, 2011, 02:03:57 PM
I could build and get one of these "out the door" within 1 day. Hopefully I will need to get more than one out the door per day. It would be nice to be able to give people jobs to do this.
That really is the whole idea anyway isn't it?

That will be wonderful if it can create jobs and if all goes well I'm sure it can create a bunch.   

  Call me worrisome but I just had another thought.  Or more of a question at this point if you can answer it now.  Is there anything in this invention that involves exotic, rare, hard to get, controlled materials or anything that otherwise could be severely limited by the PTB once it hits their radar?  If so maybe you could give a heads up on just that one thing now.  Hopefully there is nothing like that in the invention and even if some things might become scarce at some point they could be made by some of the more skilled individuals so that this could not be stopped by controlling a key ingredient.   

Geezz
And all I wanted was a light to read by.............

Open source of course!!

Chet

giantkiller,  good to see you here.  I appreciate your take on this and while it may seem a bit over the top I think you have very valid statements.  I heard once from someone that any time there is a meeting of more than 7 (I believe that was the number but if not it was single digit) people that there will always be an government agent there to see what is going on.  While I find that hard to believe I do know that if something truly has potential to disrupt the 'status quo' that the PTB or gov will jump in big time.  However if this invention does not have the current potential to replace car engines as a power source and knowing that many people do not want to be 'off-grid' it might slip by.  In fact I don't even think at this time we know if this has the potential to power a home.  This was a question I asked a ways back here.  Even if it did have that potential my question was whether it would be affordable to scale it up that much and if it's real world usable in that way. 
Exciting time here.  I truly hope it all goes well and Bill makes some good money on his idea and the world will greatly benefit.  If it can be done at a proper rate in the right way it will truly be game changing.  We just need to make DAMN SURE at this point that if this is really a game changer that it doesn't go down the toilet like everything else has up to this point.  It just may be that the power of the Internet will make that possible. 

Quote from: e2matrix on August 15, 2011, 02:17:13 PM
That will be wonderful if it can create jobs and if all goes well I'm sure it can create a bunch.   

  Call me worrisome but I just had another thought.  Or more of a question at this point if you can answer it now.  Is there anything in this invention that involves exotic, rare, hard to get, controlled materials or anything that otherwise could be severely limited by the PTB once it hits their radar?  If so maybe you could give a heads up on just that one thing now.  Hopefully there is nothing like that in the invention and even if some things might become scarce at some point they could be made by some of the more skilled individuals so that this could not be stopped by controlling a key ingredient.

I can legally buy black powder. I can legally buy pipe fittings. I put the two together and I become an instant terrorist. The courts won't even take a breath to listen to my explanations.

A prison cell or running for your life is not the best time for realization. Although that is usually when it happens.

Giant killer - your a scary guy, but thank you for your input.

Also there are no exotic materials in the device of any kind. Like I said it could all be bought off the shelve at any hardware store. I could go into anyones home and find everything I need to build one of these. if the materials were in front of me it maight take me 10 minutes
Got to run out for a couple of hours.
Bill

No way would I ever post my phone number in a forum, like someone else said, lot of crazy people out there!

But good luck to Bills endeavors!

Sounds like this could be scaled up just a little to claim Stefan's overunity prize right here for a little startup capital.  Also there's someone offering a million dollars I believe for a self running device but if I recall that guy may not be too much on the up and up. 

Bill,  thanks for answering my question about the exotic materials.  That is good news.  Scary or not giantkiller is on our side.   You may be familiar with his work as he's been one of the major Steven Mark TPU builders for years.  IMO very smart guy on both electronics and his take on the PTB.  Most of what he's said does not have much effect on most people most of the time BUT when something game changing comes along it can become all to real all too fast.  I'm still thinking though that what you have here (just my wild speculation in my excitement about all this) is not going to be a threat any time in the near future to the PTB because of the relatively low power and cost of scaling it to big power that would be usable for cars and home power.  I hope I'm wrong on that but at least I believe it would insure this gets out to the world and would be very useful in third world countries as well as many low power devices elsewhere.   

   However if it is scalable to high power affordably I would propose an underground network of people to build and distribute it.  Ya' know something like they did with Moonshine in the 1920's.  :D

   

Quote from: giantkiller on August 15, 2011, 02:36:24 PM
I can legally buy black powder. I can legally buy pipe fittings. I put the two together and I become an instant terrorist. The courts won't even take a breath to listen to my explanations.

A prison cell or running for your life is not the best time for realization. Although that is usually when it happens.

Look, no need to get "fear-mongering" here, my friend.

I've been a similar route with my solar-funnel cooker invention 15 years ago.  Even had a company try to "take" it from me, tried to prevent me from making these and selling them myself (although admitting I was the inventor).  I and my family had a few things going for us:

1.  We were selling cheaper than this "threatening" company could
2.  We had applied for a patent (although I admit, not sure that was helping much since the "company" seemed to have a variant or a way around that "protection")
3.  We had already had TV coverage of the fact that I had made and GIVEN FOR FREE a number of these to third-world countries. 

(Result-- the board of directors of this company soon wrote me saying they had "reigned in" the person in their company threatening, and that I could go ahead and build and sell my invention freely.)

So I'm again urging Bill and all to consider using the media as a way to get PUBLIC SUPPORT -- and wish to emphasize this angle --

the Mehess invention will be a benefit to families in Third-world Countries... and you are making and giving a number of these FREE to these people.

The media eat this up -- and its furthermore true that your invention will benefit folks in third-world countries.  Sure, it might also benefit folks in the USA as well... but first get the PUBLIC supporting you, then the gov-mint and others will think twice before trying to suppress you or "take it" from you...  ;)

Some of you still don't believe my experience on this?  OK -- here's a very recent example -- and Bill you and replicators should be able to get into CNN (or like media) likewise.  Please think about it!  and I'd be glad to use my experience to help.  I also was very aware of the Pons/Fleischmann media flop -- they did it WRONG.  Replicators failed; scientists called them "frauds", etc.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-08-14/tech/solar.light.bulbs_1_bulbs-free-market-solar-light?_s=PM:TECH

Quote...As Katsaros began researching markets in developing countries, he began to realize that his solar light bulb could potentially make a huge impact on the 1.4 billion people around the world who don't have access to an electrical grid.

Many use fuel lamps that burn kerosene, which is costly, dirty and can also be unhealthy.

He dubbed his company Nokero -- short for "No Kerosene" -- and set out to get his bulbs into as many hands a possible in the developing world.

First, Katsaros had to answer a key question that would determine how he would have the strongest impact: should his company be nonprofit, or for-profit?

Katsaros found inspiration from the 2008 book by Paul Polak, "Out of Poverty."

Polak, who has worked in developing nations for 30 years, believes that the charity model of aid used by nonprofit organizations doesn't work -- despite its good intentions.

The best way to help people, according to Polak, is to treat them as consumers. If you can sell to them, he says, you can help them.

"In the beginning I was a nut case and nobody paid attention," Polak says. "The consensus was 30 years ago that this is what caused poverty, and to be involved in business was outrageous and evil."

Today, that is starting to change, he says. But that doesn't mean that nongovernmental organizations have rolled out the red carpet for Polak's ideas.

"Many NGOs say it's making money on the back of the poor, but I love to make money on the back of the poor," Polak says.

"You can feel really good about yourself giving stuff away ... but if you are going to sell things to people, you need to have respect for them because no one is going to buy something if you have contempt for them."

He says market forces will ensure that the right products get into the marketplace and ultimately lead to empowering people in developing countries to be better able to fend for themselves.

Bill,

Thank you for your efforts.

1. I love the "parts can be bought at the hardware store" part.
    My idea for this had to do with resonating doorbell transformers bought at ACE.

2. My plan to disseminate the information, if I ever come up with something, would be to do the following...

    a. Make complete Plans and Videos in secret.
    b. Buy a used laptop or netbook.
    c. Drive to a city ~ 500 miles away using only cash.
    d. Go to a small local coffee shop and distribute the information appropriately.
    c. Drive home, sit back and see what happens, in complete anonymity.

3. This is the real important part that I would like to know about... however.
   
     Are you aware of the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951?
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act

    Simply put, if you patent something, and "they" want it, "they" take it and you shut up... or else.
    With over 6,000 patents under this classification at this very moment, this is a very real concern and could well apply to you.

    It appears like you are a very intelligent person and may know about this and have a plan for it.
    Otherwise, it would seem like an important issue to consider.
    Is there any chance you can comment on this Law and how you intend to circumnavigate it?

Best Regards,
                     The Observer

   

Hi Bill,
if you want to claim the overunity prize you must first publish the blueprints and
send a demo device that can output 1 Watts.

I hope your device is not a selfmade battery from any metals
that are consumed ?

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Bill,

I live in Molalla and if you need some help on this let me know.  I have built several OU systems that all thus far shown no OU, however I am very positive and optimistic that someone will breakthrough the barrier.

I have a 'Browns Gas' electrolyzer that develops about 1500 L/hr and am currently recondensing the flame into 'New Water'.

As a quick test on your system,  try to place two 'output' electrodes from your device into a container of water and a pinch of salt, and show an active electrolysis of water.  Note the heat increase of the water at the start and end of your run to show the additiional joule heating that shows power also.  Gas volume, current, and heating are all easy concepts for most people to see and understand.

Please let me know where and when you will be demonstrating your system. 

Good luck and good science,  Jeff

Quote from: The Observer on August 15, 2011, 03:58:29 PM

Is there any chance you can comment on this Law and how you intend to circumnavigate it?

Easy ! Just ignore it.

It's time to leave the left-brain thinking behind.

We can all see the Ego driven business world is corrupt to the core, so why follow it's 'laws'.

I would have thought most of the people here are thinking creatively and for the good of everyone. (both hemispheres)

Nothing is more powerful than an idea.

So how we think, so how we feel, so how we act.

I should imagine, most of those 6000 classified patents had a small amount of good intention behind their creation. That being said, I would say it was a duty to open source anything that is for the betterment of human life.

That's 6000 examples of male dominated, ego driven, left brain thinking to let you know how the world works and what needs changing.

All the best

Quote from: hartiberlin on August 15, 2011, 04:16:15 PM
Hi Bill,
if you want to claim the overunity prize you must first publish the blueprints and
send a demo device that can output 1 Watts.

I hope your device is not a selfmade battery from any metals
that are consumed ?

Regards, Stefan.

I was wondering this myself. Its very easy to and often over looked at first.

-Altrez

Bill,

I look froward to your open tests. Is there anything else that you can share with us at this point? Will you post the plans in this thread in a few weeks?

:)

-Altrez

http://www.damninteresting.com/project-babylon-gerald-bulls-downfall/ (http://www.damninteresting.com/project-babylon-gerald-bulls-downfall/)
Here's a lesson.
The equation is this:

As much as the device is wanted so is the designer.

And since this has now been advertised the trolls have notified the moguls which will send grunts.

Another prairie dog festival. Pop goes the weasil.

Cold, huh?

So, Bill? You gonna jump out in public and wave the answer around like everybody needs you?
All you had to do was send it around quietly for stealth reproduction. Or have you done this already? Possibly on the day of your son's publication?

I read an interesting article about Oppenheimer and Tesla. You see we needed a quick fix to Japan. Oppenheimer and Tesla were called into a meeting. Oppenheimer was given Sandia labs site to produce a weapon. Tesla already had his. Oppenheimer won the contract because of the effect of the show. Cheaper too. Alot of people on stage. Everything to distract the public. Horrify them in a multi level aspect. Nothing mystical from nowhere. Nope, a bomb. Something the whole human race could understand. Put Tesla's design behind the curtain. This would allow the powers that be to have a level of stuff that could blackbirded. Always create a publicity stunt to hide the truth. Then you never have to waste an event. It has been said 'Rewrite and history and you control the masses.'

And in case anyone forgot...

QuoteWhat should they know of the present who only the present know?
        - Blair Worden

Our ignorance of history makes us slander our own times.
        - Gustave Flaubert

"History ought never to be confused with nostalgia. It's written not to revere the dead, but to inspire the living. It is part of our cultural bloodstream, the secret of who we are. And it tells us to let go of the past, even as we honour it; to lament what ought to be lamented; and to celebrate what should be celebrated."
        - Simon Schama, "A History of Britain"

In the end, history, especially British history with its succession of thrilling illuminations, should be, as all her most accomplished narrators have promised, not just instruction but pleasure.
        - Simon Schama, " History of Britain"

In its Greek origins, historia meant inquiry, and from Thucydides onwards, the past has been studied to understand its connections with the present.
        - Simon Schama

"History, Macauley says, is a debatable land. It lies on the margin of two disputed territories; those of poetry and those of philosophy; that of reason and that of the imagination."
        - Simon Schama, introducing Thomas Macauley, "Historians of Genius"

"If a man were permitted to make all the ballads, he need not care who should make the laws of a nation."
        - Andrew Fletcher (1653-1716), Scottish patriot

"We do not live in the past, but the past in us."
        - Ulrich Phillips, "The Slave Economy of the Old South"

A generation which ignores history has no past: and no future.
        - Lazarus Long, from the works of Robert Heinlein

To know nothing of what happened before you were born is to remain forever a child.
        - Cicero

There is no present or future, only the past happening over and over again - now.
        - Eugene O'Neill

The present contains nothing more than the past, and what is found in the effect is already in the cause.
        - Henri Louis Bergson

Animals are molded by natural forces they do not comprehend. To their minds there is no past and no future. There is only the everlasting present of a single generation, its trails in the forest, its hidden pathways in the the air and in the sea. There is nothing in the Universe more alone than Man. He has entered into the strange world of history.
        - Loren Eiseley

Without history we are infants. Ask what binds the British Isles more closely to America than to Europe and only history gives a reply. Of all intellectual pursuits, history is the most supremely useful. That is why people crave it and need ever more of it.
        - Simon Jenkins, "The London Times"

The disadvantage of men not knowing the past is that they do not know the present. History is a hill or high point of vantage, from which alone men see the town in which they live or the age in which they are living.
        - GK Chesterton

A person with no sense of the past is a person who is a stranger both to his or her own roots and to the human condition more generally. For human beings are not creatures of nature; we are inheritors of the history that has made us what we are. Not to know our history is not to know ourselves, and that is the condition not of human beings, but of animals. And even from a practical point of view, to be ignorant of the past is to make us impotent and unprepared before the present. How can someone without a sense of medieval history have the slightest inkling of the meaning of the current impasse the West finds itself in in its dealings with Islam? The Crusades were not, as is often implied by Muslims and non-Muslims alike, a unique moment of anti-Islamic aggression. They were actually but one blip in the astonishing growth of Islamic empires in Europe and elsewhere, from the time of Mohammed onwards, right up to 1683 when the Turks were turned back from the gates of Vienna and 1686 when they were expelled from Budapest. But who now remembers any of this, or ponders its consequences? It is not, needless to say, taught in National Curriculum history, which prefers to dwell on the Aztecs, about whom we have only the vaguest knowledge in comparison, and (endlessly) on the rise of Fascism (not communism) in Europe, studied by pupils who know nothing of the history of Italy and Germany before the 20th century.
Is it any wonder that, with no sense of our past or identity â€" as, in other moods, politicians increasingly complain â€" we are a culture obsessed with celebrity, football, and reality television? Most of our population know nothing else, and they have no yardstick from either history or culture with which to judge.
        - Anthony O'Hear, "The Telegraph"

The Crusaders have been regarded â€" and not only by Muslims â€" as an advance force of western imperialism. This is an odd judgment, given that they were responding to expansionist Islam. Still, the intensity of their faith, and the brutality of some of their actions, have sat ill with liberal anti-colonialist attitudes. There are many more eager to offer understanding to Islamic jihadists today than to the crusaders, who had more in common with these jihadists than either had or have with western liberals. History, however, is not a matter of passing judgment, and real historians don't put past ages in the dock. Their business is to show what happened and, if possible, why it happened, to open our eyes and so enlarge our understanding. Jonathan Phillips does this admirably. The past may be another country where they do things differently, as L P Hartley suggested; but it is a country open for exploration, and the voyage Phillips takes us on is fascinating.
        - Allan Massie, reviewing "The Second Crusade", "The Telegraph"

When Cromwell instructed his portraitist to paint him ‘warts and all’, he meant both halves of that equation. To teach the warts alone is morbid and unhealthy.
        - Mark Steyn,"The Spectator"

The historian ought to be an educated person, writing for other educated people about something which they don't know about, but wish to know about in a way that they can understand.
        - Sir John Keegan

The older I get the more I'm convinced that it's the purpose of politicians and journalists to say the world is very simple, whereas it's the purpose of historians to say, 'No! It's very complicated.'
The job of the historian is to help give people a sense of existence in time, without which we are really not fully human.
        - David Cannadine

The historian must have some conception of how men who are not historians behave.
        - from a review of the work of Edward Gibbon

"Historians of every generation, I believe, unless they are pure antiquarians, see history against the background â€" the controlling background â€" of current events. They call upon it to explain the problems of their own time, to give to those problems a philosophical context, a continuum in which they may be reduced to proportion and perhaps made intelligible."
        - Hugh Trevor Roper, valedictory address to Oxford University (1980)

The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that Once, on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground, walked other men and women, as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions, but now all are gone, one generation vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall shortly be gone like ghosts at crow.
        - G.M. Trevelyan

Time's glory is to calm contending kings, to unmask falsehood, and to bring truth to light.

- Oedipus Rex
Civilization is a stream with banks. The stream is sometimes filled with blood from people killing, stealing, shouting and doing the things historians usually record, while on the banks, unnoticed, people build homes, make love, raise children, sing songs, write poetry and even whittle statues. The story of civilization is what happened on the banks.
- Will Durant, "The History of Civilization"
Civilization is not inherited; it has to be learned and earned by each generation anew; if the transmission should be interrupted for one century, civilization would die, and we should be savages again.
        - Will Durant, "The Lessons of History"

Civilization is the result of human action, but not the execution of any human design.

        - Adam Ferguson, "A History of Civil Society", 1767.

History is a record of exploded ideas.
        - Admiral Fisher

History is an argument without end.
        - Pieter Geyl

One can shape history as much through the facts one omits as through the facts one includes.
        - David Frum

History is always written wrong, and so always needs to be rewritten. ...What is interesting is brought forward as if it had been central and efficacious in the march of events, and harmonies are turned into causes. Kings and generals are endowed with motives appropriate to what the historian values in their actions; plans are imputed to them prophetic of their actual achievements, while the thoughts that really preoccupied them remain buried in absolute oblivion.

- George Santayana, The Life of Reason: Reason in Science, 1918
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
       - George Santayana

That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.

        - Aldous Huxley

We learn from history that we learn nothing from history.

- George Bernard Shaw
History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.
        - Mark Twain
History is tangled, messy, contradictory. But is where we are.
        - Eamon Duffy, "Faith of our Fathers"

We need open minds and open hearts when we wrestle with the past and ask questions of it, and the answers it will provide are in nobody's pocket... We should let nobody tell us that they know all that it contains, or try to prescribe or constrain in advance what it has to tell us.
        - Eamon Duffy, "Faith of our Fathers"

If history offers no obvious solutions, however, it does at least provide the comfort of knowing that failure is nothing new.
        - Eamon Duffy, from "Scandals in the Church"

Symbolic rearrangement of the past is of course an unavoidable aspect of all human attempts to make sense of the present.
        - Eamon Duffy

History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again.
        - Kurt Vonnegut

Getting its history wrong is part of being a nation.
        - Ernest Renan

History is a lie agreed upon.
        - Napoleon Bonaparte

People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.
        - Edmund Burke, "Reflections on the Revolution in France" (1790)

History is the torch that is meant to illuminate the past, to guard us against the repetition of our mistakes of other days. We cannot join in the rewriting of history to make it conform to our comfort and convenience.
        - Claude G. Bowers, "The U.S. and the Spanish Civil War"

History is what we read, write and think about the past.
        - Sir Michael Howard

I make no apologies for any inconsistencies or contradictions in my essays. Those who do not change their minds in the course of a decade have probably stopped thinking all together.

The true use of history, whether civil or military, is not to make man clever for the next time, it is to make him wise forever.

- Sir Michael Howard, "The Causes Of War"
People often of masterful intelligence, trained usually in law or economics or perhaps in political science, who have led their governments into disastrous decisions and miscalculations because they have no awareness whatever of the historical background, the cultural universe, of the foreign societies with which they have to deal.
        - Sir Michael Howard, "The Lessons of History"
"History is philosophy teaching by examples."
        - Lord Bolingbroke, 18th century political philosopher

Tragedy is a tool for the living to gain wisdom â€" not a guide by which to live.
        - Robert Kennedy

History is either a moral argument with lessons for the here-and-now, or it is merely an accumulation of pointless facts.
        - Andrew Marr

"The strife of the election is but human nature practically applied to the facts of the case. What has occurred in this case must ever recur in similar cases. Human nature will not change. In any future great national trial, compared with the men of this, we shall have as weak and as strong, as silly and as wise, as bad and as good. Let us therefore study the incidents of this, as philosophy to learn wisdom from, and none of them as wrongs to be revenged."
        - Abraham Lincoln, looking forwards after re-election in 1864

The best use of history is as an inoculation against radical expectations, and hence against embittering disappointments.
        - George Will, "The Pursuit of Happiness and Other Sobering Thoughts"

History is a tragegy, not a morality tale.
        - Isidor F Stone

History is what the evidence compels us to believe.
        - Michael Oakshot

Every new generation must rewrite history in its own way.
        - RG Collingwood

What interests us about the past is at least partly a function of what bothers us or makes us curious in the present.
        - Adam Garfinkle

History is past politics, and politics is present history.
        - Edward Freeman

History is the projection of ideology into the past.
        - Unknown

Historians are not just dispassionate chroniclers. By their selection, ordering, highlighting, attribution and analysis of facts they fashion a particular version of the past. And they also play a part in the disputes of the present, by legitimising or undermining the rationales, heroes and myths which influence current debates. Historical figures are forever being conscripted for fresh cultural battles.
        - The Times, "Truth, trust and rewriting history" 4/4/02

Western elites â€" the beneficiaries of 60 years of peace and prosperity achieved by the sacrifices to defeat fascism and Communism â€" are unhappy in their late middle age, and show little gratitude for, or any idea about, what gave them such latitude. If they cannot find perfection in history, they see no good at all.
        - Victor Davis Hanson, "Remembering World War Two", "National Review"

"The great tragedies of history occur not when right confronts wrong but when two rights confront each other."
        - Henry Kissinger

"History is a conversation with the dead."
        - Keith Hopkins

"Every piece of history is a piece of human nature."
        - Joss Whedon

Peter Jones's is a vital public service. He reminds us that while we shouldn't live in the past, we are wiser and stronger when we live with it.
        - Bettany Hughes, reviewing "Vote For Caesar" by Peter Jones

History does not eliminate grievances. It lays them down like landmines.
        - AN Wilson, "The Victorians"

The past is dead, and nothing that we can choose to believe about it can harm or benefit those who were
alive in it. On the other hand, it has the power to harm us.
        - ATQ Stewart, "The Shape of Irish History"

If we are to understand anything of the human mind we must approach the people of the past with humility rather than an overconfident superiority.
        - ATQ Stewart, "The Shape of Irish History"

History is a dead thing brought to new life. It is fragments of a past, dead and gone, resurrected by historians. It is in this sense like Frankenstein's monster. It threatens our versions of ourselves.
        - Richard White, "Remembering Ahanagran"

Any good history begins in strangeness. The past should not be comfortable. The past should not be a familiar echo of the present, for if it is familiar why revisit it? The past should be so strange that you wonder how you and people you know and love could come from such a time.
        - Richard White, "Remembering Ahanagran"

What any of us know of our births, we learn from others. It is a beginning we ourselves cannot recall, so we commit the story to memory. We claim it and incorporate it into our story of ourselves. We thus begin the story of our lives with an intimate event that we can only know second hand. And so the confusion of history and memory begins.
        - Richard White, "Remembering Ahanagran"

History is not the story of strangers, aliens from another realm; it is the story of us had we been born a little earlier. History is memory; we have to remember what it is like to be a Roman, or a Jacobite or a Chartist or even â€" if we dare, and we should dare â€" a Nazi. History is not abstraction, it is the enemy of abstraction.
        - Stephen Fry, "History Matters"

History is not made, or lived, in hindsight.
        - Eoghan Harris

History does not usually make real sense until long afterward.
        - Bruce Catton

One might say that history is not about the past. If you think about it, no one ever lived in the past. Washington, Jefferson, John Adams, and their contemporaries didn't walk about saying, "Isn't this fascinating living in the past! Aren't we picturesque in our funny clothes!" They lived in the present. The difference is it was their present, not ours. They were caught up in the living moment exactly as we are, and with no more certainty of how things would turn out than we have. History is â€" or should be â€" a lesson in appreciation. History helps us keep a sense of proportion. Is life not infinitely more interesting and enjoyable when one can stand in a great historic place or walk historic ground, and know something of what happened there and in whose footsteps you walk? Why would anyone wish to be provincial in time, any more than being tied down to one place through life, when the whole reach of the human drama is there to experience in some of the greatest books ever written. History is a larger way of looking at life.
        - David McCullough, from the 2003 Jefferson Lecture in the Humanities

No harm's done to history by making it something someone would want to read.
        - David McCullough

By and large "history", when taken to a mass audience by a television documentary or a newspaper, is usually only a kind of fraud, in which viewers and readers are induced to take an interest by the promise that people in the past were "just like us", comforted all the while by an unspoken assumption of their own innate superiority. Most contemporary values and nearly everything trading under the banner of modern liberalism, it seems fair to say, are built on the notion of the past's inferiority to our own arrangements. Queerly enough, being honest about modern life involves acknowledging that television sets and share-option schemes are not an instant guarantee of spiritual worth. Patronising your ancestors is simply a form of moral cheating. Whatever we may feel about Dickens's Mr Gradgrind, he was a product of the environment which created him. Our first duty, consequently, is to examine him on his terms, not ours.
        - DJ Taylor reviews Matthew Sweet's "Inventing The Victorians" for The Times

More and more, we are projecting our own values on to those who lived in the past as though there can be no other way to live, or to think, than the way we live and think now... All ages have their prejudices. We're no different. We are different in one respect, though. Ours is the only one ever to think that it has nothing at all to learn from the past. One result of this is that it has become all but impossible for us to make a drama set in the past in which a credible character doesn't think exactly like us. The writer CS Lewis called this kind of attitude 'chronological snobbery', meaning the belief that the latest thing is always the best. We're all chronological snobs now.
        - David Quinn, "The Irish Independent"

We must not look at the past with the enormous condescension of posterity.
        - EP Thompson

"Pearl Harbor" is strenuously respectful of contemporary sensitivities, sometimes at the cost of accuracy.
        - A.O. Scott, film critic for "The New York Times"

Early 21st-century man prefers, like Chairman Mao, to let the past serve the present. If he stopped making jejune moral judgments about his ancestors and tried to understand what made them tick instead, he might make less of a mess of his own times.
        - Robert Salisbury, "The Spectator"

The 20th century is already slipping into the "obscurity of mis-memory", writes Tony Judt in the introduction to this superb collection of essays. Global capitalism has dissolved most of the old national and ideological hatreds, leaving those under 40 puzzled as to what all the fuss was about. History has become either a source of nostalgic reminiscence ("heritage") or a chronicle of victimhood. Politicians raid it for "lessons"; fashion designers for styles. Gone is the sense of carrying forward some great project, be it of national glory or social liberation.
        - Edward Skidelsky, reviewing "Reflections on the Forgotten 20th Century", "The Telegraph"

One of the rules of history is that people do not write about what is too obvious to mention. And so the information, having never been recorded, is now lost for ever.
        - Michael Bywater, "Lost Worlds"

Knowing what not to learn from the past is more important than knowing what to learn.The fly sat upon the axle-tree of the chariot wheel and said "What a dust do I raise"

- Michael Handel, "War, Strategy & Intelligence"
He that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils; for time is the greatest innovator.
- Francis Bacon
Telling the future by looking at the past assumes that conditions remain constant. This is like driving a car by looking in the rearview mirror.
- Herb Brody
If men could learn from history, what lessons it might teach us! But passion and party blind our eyes, and the light which experience gives us is a lantern on the stern which shines only on the waves behind.
- Samuel Coleridge
The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.
- L. P. Hartley
The Past: Our cradle, not our prison; there is danger as well as appeal in its glamour. The past is for inspiration, not imitation, for continuation, not repetition.
        - Israel Zangwill
Perhaps the most tantalising sort of history is the kind that is just out of reach â€" the stories of peoples whose deeds and style of living helped to form our own world, but of whom we know almost nothing, because they left no written records.
        - Jane Shilling, "The Times"

All my life I’ve been aware of the Second World War humming in the background. I was born 10 years after it was finished, and without ever seeing it. It formed my generation and the world we lived in. I played Hurricanes and Spitfires in the playground, and war films still form the basis of all my moral philosophy. All the men I’ve ever got to my feet for or called sir had been in the war.
        - AA Gill, "The Times"

Those who would repeat the past must control the teaching of history.
        - Frank Herbert

I had nothing but sympathy for the reporter who, after listening in court to David Irving's insistence that the elevator to the ovens simply couldn't have carried as many bodies as the defence expert had claimed, confessed: 'On the way home in the train that night, to my shame, I took out a pocket calculator and began to do some sums. Ten minutes for each batch of 25. I tapped in. That makes 150 an hour. Which gives 3,600 for each 24-hour period. Which gives 1,314,000 in a year. So that's fine. It could be done. Thank God, the numbers add up.'
        - DD Guttenplan, "The Holocaust On Trial"

Journalism is merely history's first draft.
        - Geoffrey C. Ward

History, it used to be said, is written in four drafts. The first is the account of a big event in the next day's newspapers. The second is the hot-on-the-heels analysis of that event in the weekly columns. The third becomes possible when fresh detail emerges from the memoirs and diaries of key players. Eventually, decades later, the fourth and final draft of history is etched in stone after all the earlier versions have been graded and revised by learned academics with access to the archives.
In reality, this courtly ritual was never the whole story. But it barely constitutes a sub plot today. Television has transformed the rules that govern how history is made and recorded.
The judgment of posterity is no longer left to historians, or indeed the future. Today, it's the prestigious television documentary series that settles the score and sets the record straight, often while the ink is still wet on the peace treaty and the blood still visible on the combatants' hands. History is no longer written by the victors alone; even the losers can get a look in as long as they win the sympathy of the prime-time viewer.
        - Liam Fay, "The Times"

For many of us, history class is a nightmare from which we are trying to awake. Evocatively conveyed, history can be a superior form of infotainment: a thrill-ride through the follies, triumphs and misfortunes of our ancestors. All too often, however, the subject is reduced, by uninspiring teachers, to tedious dates, facts and figures â€" the navigational co-ordinates of a forgotten world.
        - Liam Fay, "The Times"

The book begins by pointing out that history can offer simplicity and support to just about anybody who is willing to twist and distort its lessons. If you believe that Man is acting out God's purpose, or progressing towards liberal democracy, or moving towards the inevitable dictatorship of the proletariat, you will always be able to find examples from the experience of the past to confirm such a prejudice. Equally, if you think that history has largely been responsible for most of the world's recent woes - and anyone living in Ireland, Bosnia, Kashmir or the Holy Land could be forgiven for suspecting as much - you might yearn for Man to unlearn the past. This has in fact been tried on occasion: the Emperor Qin of China destroyed all history books and the scholars who wrote them, vowing to start history over again - the same nirvana that was later offered by Robespierre's new calendar, Pol Pot's Year Zero and Chairman Mao's cultural revolution. Yet none of these attempts worked, and Clio wreaked her own revenge on the reputation of all four dictators. Trotsky has now been digitally restored to the photographs from which Stalin had him airbrushed in the 1920s. Whether we like the idea of history and its capacity for inflaming conflict or not, we are nonetheless stuck with it.
- Andrew Roberts, reviewing Margaret McMillan's "The Uses and Abuses of History", "Standpoint"

The Somme (BBC1) was more fashionable push-me-pull-you, contrarian TV history. Except that the belief that the battle was not so much a desperate disaster as a postponed and expensive triumph is really more revisionist and much closer to the official view in 1919.  The Great War was the defining tragedy of Britain, France, Germany and Russia, and a new beginning for much of the rest of Europe. But, at the time, most of those who had been through it saw it as a great victory; The current received wisdom of the conflict sounds like having the history of the past 50 years recorded solely by Harold Pinter. We are reaching the end of living contact with the Great War and it’s not a question of “lest we forget” so much as “what we choose to remember”.
        - AA Gill, reviewing a documentary in "The Times"

In history a great volume is unrolled for our instruction, drawing the materials for future wisdom from the past errors and infirmities of mankind. It may, in the perversion, serve for a magazine... supplying the means of keeping alive, or reviving, dissesions and animosities, and adding fuel to civil fury. History consists, for the greater part, of the miseries brought upon the world by pride, ambition, avarice, revenge, lust, sedition, hypocrisy, ungoverned zeal, and all the train of disorderly appetites which shake the public. These vices are the causes... religion, morals, laws, perogatives... are the pretexts... Wise men will apply their remedies to vices, not to names; to the causes of evil which are permanent, not to the occasional organs by which they act, and the transitory modes in which they appear... whilst you are discussing fashion, the fashion is gone by. The very same vice assumes a new body... it walks abroad, it continues its ravages, whilst you are gibbeting the carcase, or demolishing the tomb. You are terrifying yourself with ghosts and apparitions, whilst your house is the haunt of robbers.
        - Edmund Burke, "Reflections on the Revolution in France"

Continue to instruct the world; and â€" whilst we carry on a poor unequal conflict with the passions and prejudices of our day, perhaps with no better weapons than other passions and prejudices of our own â€" convey wisdom to future generations.
        - Edmund Burke, in a letter to historian William Robertson

It is not a sin to introduce a personal bias that can be recognized and discounted. The sin in historical composition is the organization of the story in such a way that bias cannot be recognized.
       - Herbert Butterfield, "The Whig Interpretation of History" (1931)

It is AD 5000, and Professor Ostrich, hard at work in his study-pod on Mars, has just made a stunning discovery. Up to that time, it had been assumed that Ian Fleming's books about the hero James Bond, published some 3,000 years earlier, had been fiction. But idly perusing some of the archive material that had been saved from 'Planet' Earth, he found that the old Japanese for 'foreigner' had been 'gaijin'. This rang a bell, and on downloading You Only Live Twice from his ear-piece into his brain, he found this was the very word Bond had used for it too. Curious, he looked up Mount Fuji, also referred to in that book. It existed! Becoming more and more excited, he found that 'Dunhill', 'Martini', 'White's', 'Boodles' - obviously silly names, made up for the occasion - and even 'St James' Street' could all be attested from those long-lost times. Incredible! Surely this must mean that the Bond stories, far from being works of fiction, were history! And Bond, therefore, a real person! An analogous process of reasoning has led a number of businessmen and academics, Professor Barry Strauss of Cornell University among them, to believe that the story Homer tells in his Iliad c 700 BC offers an accurate account of a real war fought between Greeks and Trojans over a woman in Mycenaean times, around 1200 BC... He solemnly adduces political reasons for Paris' abduction of Helen (Homer gives none), dissects the military tactics of the Greeks and Trojans (no such thing), discusses the economics and domestic politics of Troy (non-existent) and compares it with the Hanseatic League of the late Middle Ages (sounds of helpless laughter). Probingly, he wonders whether Achilles was a war criminal. 'A new history', Strauss calls it, and it certainly is that. No history ever paid so little attention to evidence or argument or any of the usual historiographical constraints. No history has ever been so replete with 'would haves' and 'mights'. Was the Trojan king Priam able to look his soldiers in the eye when the Greeks landed? Or would he have been too ashamed of 'his family's policy'?
        - Peter Jones, reviewing "The Trojan War" by Barry Strauss, "The Telegraph"

"Was there a war fought for love?"
        - BBC Horizon asks the essential question of the Trojan War

THEORIES OF HISTORY

If the history of mankind were to begin over, without any change in the world's surface, it would broadly repeat itself.
        - Edmond Demolins

History followed different courses for different peoples because of differences among peoples' environments, not because of biological differences among peoples themselves.
        - Jared Diamond, "Guns, Germs and Steel"

Any study of mankind is incomplete which ignores the predominant influence exerted on all human development, be it physical, political or social, by man's geographic environment, and it is therefore necessary to know something of the land in which he lived.
        - Joseph Raftery, "Prehistoric Ireland"

People make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given, and transmitted from the past.
        - Karl Marx

Athens built the Acropolis. Corinth was a commercial city, interested in purely materialistic things. Today we admire Athens, visit it, preserve the old temples, yet we hardly ever set foot in Corinth.
        - Harold Urey

At the bidding of a Peter the Hermit millions of men hurled themselves against the East; the words of an hallucinated enthusiast such as Mahomet created a force capable of triumphing over the Graeco-Roman world; an obscure monk like Luther bathed Europe in blood. The voice of a Galileo or a Newton will never have the least echo among the masses. The inventors of genius hasten the march of civilization. The fanatics and the hallucinated create history.
        - Gustave Le Bon

In Italy under the Borgias, they had 30 years of warfare,terror,murder & bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, DaVinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love and 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The Cuckoo Clock.
        - Orson Welles as Harry Lime in "The Third Man"

"A great man represents a strategic point in the campaign of history, and part of his greatness consists of his being there."
        - Oliver Wendell Holmes

Counterfactual experiments in history should always include two limitations: the 'minimal rewrite rule' (only small and plausible changes should be made to the actual sequence of events) and 'second order counterfactuals' (after a certain time, the previous pattern may reassert itself).
        - Geoffrey Parker, in "What If?"

France would pay huge reparations, enough to keep it underarmed and angry for another generation. Anti-Semitism, ever the bane of defeated European nations, would become a problem for it and not Germany.
        - Robert Cowley, "Germany Wins The Marne" from "What If?"

QUOTATIONS FROM HISTORICAL WORKS & REVIEWS

In the second century of the Christian era, the Empire of Rome comprehended the fairest part of the earth, and the most civilised portion of mankind. The frontiers of that extensive monarchy were guarded by ancient renown and disciplined valour. The gentle but powerful influence of laws and manners had gradually cemented the union of the provinces. Their peaceful inhabitants enjoyed and abused the advantages of wealth and luxury. The image of a free constitution was preserved with decent reverence: the Roman senate appeared to possess the sovereign authority, and devolved on the emperors all the executive powers of government. During a happy period (A.D. 98-180) of more than fourscore years, the public administration was conducted by the virtue and abilities of Nerva, Trajan, Hadrian, and the two Antonines. It is the design of this, and of the two succeeding chapters, to describe the prosperous condition of their empire; and afterwards, from the death of Marcus Antoninus, to deduce the most important circumstances of its decline and fall; a revolution which will ever be remembered, and is still felt by the nations of the earth.
        - Edward Gibbons, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", 1776.

The various modes of worship, which prevailed in the Roman world, were all considered by the people, as equally true; by the philosopher, as equally false; and by the magistrate, as equally useful.
       - Edward Gibbons, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"

Who knows but that hereafter some traveller like myself will sit down upon the banks of the Seine, the Thames, or the Zuyder Zee, where now, in the tumult of enjoyment, the heart and the eyes are too slow to take in the multitude of sensations? Who knows but he will sit down solitary amid silent ruins, and weep a people inurned and their greatness changed into an empty name?
        - Volney, "Ruins"

She [the Roman Catholic Church] may still exist in undiminished vigour when some traveller from New Zealand shall, in the midst of a vast solitude, take his stand on a broken arch of London Bridge to sketch the ruins of St. Paul's.
        - Thomas Macauley, on Ranke's "History of the Popes"

The Spartan, smiting and spurning the wretched Helot, moves our disgust. But the same Spartan, calmly dressing his hair, and uttering his concise jests, on what the well knows to be his last day, in the pass of Thermopylae, is not to be contemplated without admiration.
        - Thomas Macauley, from "The History of England"

"For Leonidas and for the 300 Spartan warriors who had accompanied him, Thermopylae was more than a strategic strongpoint, it was the place where they intended to show the world what it meant to be a Spartan. As a whole the Greeks made a great deal of noise about the nobility of dying for your country. But for the Spartans, it was far more than just a platitude. In battle they were ordered to see out a beautiful death... embracing death like a lover. The beautiful death was a sacrifice in the true sense of the word. Turning something mortal into something sacred."
        - Bettany Hughes, "The Spartans"

Augustus gradually increased his powers, taking over those of the senate, the executives and the laws. The aristocracy received wealth and position in proportion to their willingness to accept slavery. The state had been transformed, and the old Roman character gone for ever. Equality among citizens was completely abandoned. All now waited on the imperial command.
        - Tactitus, on the transition from Republic to Empire

In Europe, the Enlightenment of the 18th century was seen as a battle against the desire of the Church to limit intellectual freedom, a battle against the Inquisition, a battle against religious censorship. And the victory of the Enlightenment in Europe was seen as pushing religion away from the center of power. In America, at the same time, the Enlightenment meant coming to a country where people were not going to persecute you by reason of your religion. So it meant a liberation into religion. In Europe, it was liberation out of religion.
        - Salman Rushdie, interviewed in "Reason" magazine

Michael Burleigh is not the first of them to trace the antecedents of 20th century totalitarianism to the well-documented aspiration of Jacobinism to enclose all French people within its intellectual compass by a ruthless stamping out of dissent in the name of progress, liberty and equality. Jacobinism triumphant was an unedifying spectacle, and Burleigh attributes its bloody excesses to the fanaticism of politics as religion. It is true that in their messianic zeal for the regeneration of the French nation the Jacobins sought to remould the minds and manners of the French people in ways that foreshadowed Mao’s Cultural Revolution. The enduring legacy of the 18th century and the French revolution was the demise of the assumption that had so long prevailed in Europe that successful government required the ethical foundation that only religion could provide. The most potent offspring of the revolution was nationalism. Just as religion did, nationalism offered, in Burleigh’s words, 'to fulfil a human need for intense belonging'. The instrument of that fulfilment was no longer to be the church, but the nation-state.
        - Robin Stewart, reviewing "Earthly Powers" in "The Spectator"

The Dutch must be understood as they really are, the Middle Persons in Trade, the Factors and Brokers of Europe... they buy to sell again, take in to send out again, and the greatest Part of their vast Commerce consists in being supply'd from All Parts of the World, that they may supply All th World Again.
        - Daniel Defoe, commenting on the success of the 17th century Dutch Republic

The wars of kings were over; the wars of peoples had begun.
        - RR Palmer, describing the events of 1793

The history of Napoleon now becomes, for 12 momentous years, the history of mankind.
        - John Holland Rose, on the outbreak of the Napoleonic wars in 1803

By the summer of 1807, Napoleon ran a one-man European Union with more efficiency and less argument than achieved by Brussels 186 years later. France, Benelux, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Germany were ruled by directives from Napoleon's quill.
        - Richard Gordon

What finally scuppered Napoleon's Europe was of course the fatal combination of the English Channel and the Russian winter; the same unlikely partnership that also did for Hitler's Europe.
        - Andrew Roberts, "The Telegraph"

Napoleon could never imagine that some people loved their country as much as he loved his own.
        - David McCullough

A healthy nation is as unconscious of its nationality as a healthy man of his bones. But if you break a person's nationality it will think of nothing else but getting it set again.
        - George Bernard Shaw

Freedom does not always win. This is one of the bitterest lessons of history.
        - A.J.P. Taylor

Rather an end in horror, than horror without end.

He could not condemn principles he might need to invoke and apply later.

The wolf cannot help having been created by God as he is, but we shoot him all the same if we have to.

The great player in diplomacy, as in chess, asks the question,"Does this improve me?", not look at the possible fringe benefits

If you can't have what you like, you must like what you have.

- AJP Taylor, "The Struggle For Mastery In Europe 1848-1918"

Quote from: billmehess on August 15, 2011, 09:11:28 AM
I understand the confusion let me clearify this. I have the patent pending in place so that I will be able to form a company to hopefully develop the full potential of the device. A company and a patent pending allows me a vehicle to go into the market place and make available this innovation.
It is absolutly imperative to my marketing strategy that the device be reproduced though by anyone who wishes to, I will at the demo provide ALL information to this end.
I would simply like a mechinism in place to put the halt to any commercialization. PLEASE BUILD AWAY!.
Also I realize the limitation of the patent pending. It is only good in the US.  So I am sure it will be jumped on in the other 90% of the world. Even if I had a international patent (which would take years to get) we all know that the Chinese would knock it off anyway.

Bill,

Applying for a patent would bring the following results:
If you do so only in the US then the rest of the world will be  either for people to build it for personal purposes or for  making a commercial product, being this said, it will also cause another effect; because there is a previous priority date for a previous art in the US with your filed application, therefore it will not be granted to any other entity that likes to apply for a patent in any other place in the world.
If you apply for the PCT (there is not such an International patent application that would protect your invention at once) and your application is  published, then you will have to apply for a patent in every country that you decide with the advantage to carry the priority date of your PCT application for your new patent applications in the countries that you decide.Once your PCT application has been published, you will have 12 months to apply for a patent country by country,  otherwise your invention will become of public use.
Finally, the nature itself of patent applications (where keeping a trade secret within will automatically void it) is highly educational, in other words, a patent should be written in such a way that anyone with a normal understanding, by reading a patent, should be able to know what is the invention about.
good luck,
Jesús Hill

@ BillMeHess,

There are things going on I can't tell you about so please be patient with me.
At the demo as I have stated I will openly answer all questions and show exactly how the device works. No NDA they are really not enforceable anyway.

Also please no folishness about MIBs!

I do not in anyway consider myself important hopefully the work is!  Lets all work together for our fellow man.
Bill

====================================================================================

In Post 23, Bill dogmatically states that talk about MIBs is only FOOLISHNESS!!!

Hmmmmmmmmmm.  I suspect that the inventors of those 6,000 SEIZED patents now firmly believe in MIBs.  LOL

I keep seeing inventors making the SAME MISTAKES over & over & over & over again.  GREED for money overrides their desire to help humanity!!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_Secrecy_Act_of_1951

Quote from: hartiberlin on August 15, 2011, 04:16:15 PM
Hi Bill,
if you want to claim the overunity prize you must first publish the blueprints and
send a demo device that can output 1 Watts.

I hope your device is not a selfmade battery from any metals
that are consumed ?

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan

I looked at the OU prize requirements I understand them but they seem restrictive. You will see that my device will work as claimed. With no input and a measurable output that should in itself by recognized as obvious overunity. Also you want 3 months of testing to take place.
As a startup the OU prize money would be very useful but your request have a surprisingly large amount of restriction. If this works it's obvious OU and the prize should be granted.
But hey that just me voicing my humble opinion.
This is not a selfmade battery as it contains no electrolytes or anything that can be consumed.
Totally solid state no liquids.
Bill

Quote from: bourne on August 15, 2011, 04:28:22 PM
Easy ! Just ignore it.

It's time to leave the left-brain thinking behind.

We can all see the Ego driven business world is corrupt to the core, so why follow it's 'laws'.

I would have thought most of the people here are thinking creatively and for the good of everyone. (both hemispheres)

Nothing is more powerful than an idea.

So how we think, so how we feel, so how we act.

I should imagine, most of those 6000 classified patents had a small amount of good intention behind their creation. That being said, I would say it was a duty to open source anything that is for the betterment of human life.

That's 6000 examples of male dominated, ego driven, left brain thinking to let you know how the world works and what needs changing.

All the best

Well everything you said above sounds right except your first statement 'Just Ignore it".  Unfortunately in this 3D reality ignoring that freight train coming straight at you will for most people result in disaster.  Ignoring it won't make it go away if it is real.  That leaves us only to deal with the question of whether the threat is real.  Somewhere around here or maybe on Panacea university (Ashtweth's site) there is a document telling how NOT to release an invention.  IIRC it had about 3 pages or maybe it was 3 .pdf's of inventions that never made it and the inventors most people never heard of and how they went wrong.  It's a gruesome set of tragic stories all in one reading that would convince anyone the threat is real and to think twice about how to go about this .  Most of these were before the Internet was really big so I think now we have a chance in changing the outcome. 

    I think enough has been said on that.  I do agree putting the focus elsewhere (not ignoring but only being aware while your focus is elsewhere) is a good choice if that is what you meant.  Perhaps we can focus on some possible alternate plans on how to best get this out there.  I don't want this to sound at all condescending and this is Bill's baby but unless he has thought of virtually everything maybe someone may come up with some variations that will be more attractive for Bill or that he can add to his current plan. 
   
    I'm not sure how well Bill knows some of the most altruistic and well known members here but if he does I would ask he consider giving at least 2 of them his plans and maybe have an NDA attached that would run until his demo was either done or MIA.  BTW I'm not offering myself as one here as I don't consider myself well known although somewhat altruistic I don't think I would want the responsibility on this one.  On the other hand maybe Bill already has people in place who would upload the info here if anything went astray. 

    Some other possible ideas if you have not already implemented them:

1.  Put plans up on major file share web sites (like rapidshare.com, megaupload.com, hotfile.com, filesonic.com etc.) located in several different  countries.  Use strong encryption on everything with a long password.  Give the passwords and info to some people you trust who are not readily associated with you. 
2.  Put files up same way but via Torrent as they are so spread out it's nearly impossible to eliminate. 
3.  Open for others to suggest ...

Then take a deep breath and know all will be well  :)

To me it's incomprehendable that this kind of a guy, which proved his openness throughout the times while on this forum, that he had secretly made a research. So, I've made my own research of his fields of inerests, checking his posts. I found that except of his SMOT, hydrogen producing interest and his "Mehess Motor", there is just one more, which roughly matches guidelines: it's a device which uses a Peltier  module. I don't believe that there is no input, however, since a Peltier module needs a heat difference input.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5536.msg125893#msg125893
But I even don't ask Bill to confirm this. We'll see it soon...

You know I wondered when the guessing game was going to start.  Hopefully it doesn't annoy you Bill but what are we to do in the next two weeks?  ;)   I didn't want to start and I definitely don't want to start a snowball of people asking Bill for confirmation but it would pass the time to take a couple random shots at what this might be.  I had not thought about a Peltier like device but I think you might be onto something there Qwert.  Battery has been eliminated unless it's a solid state battery.  It has no moving parts so it can't be a motor.  My only thought was something to do with magnets and a MEG type device.  But that doesn't sound like something you can get at ACE hardware so the Peltier might be possible although it would almost fit into the 'exotic' class of materials as something which could be controlled and Bill said it's not.  Yes I know lots of them are in those cheap plastic coolers you can buy everywhere but they aren't that cheap and he did say $20 worth of materials.  Which now that I think of it might rule out anything but a very small Peltier???   Or is it possible to make your own Peltier and Bill has figured out something like this.

   Other wild guesses:
- some sort of odd combination of metals (possibly plumbing parts) that would work as an antenna or do well to amplify or convert the background EMF or ZPE to useful energy.   
- A John Hutchinson solid type of battery baked from common ingredients.

  No confirmation requested.  I'm happy to wait until after the demo and then we can go back to see who if anyone was close. 

Hi Bill

Thank you for sharing your results. I must however disagree with your chosen method of disclosure. Naturally you will want to make some money off of this, but if your motives are truly humanitarian, why not fully disclose the device RIGHT HERE and RIGHT NOW?

You know as well as we do that a fully disclosed device cannot and will not be patented by any agency or industrial power.

You know as well as we do that a simple *working* device disclosed on the internet will go viral within minutes (yes minutes) and will be built all around the world within hours.

This application for a patent tells me a few things:

a) you wish to protect the invention and concept
b) you do not wish to fully disclose this invention to the general public

The concept or argument that you have filed for a patent "to protect it from being scooped up by moguls" is moot and frankly insults my intelligence.

If you truly have found "the holy grail" there is no need for a demo.

If you truly wish to help mankind disclose what you have found right here and right now without withholding anything. I can assure you that you will be a millionare before the end of this year just by the donations being sent by grateful replicators from all over the world.

Please carefully reconsider your chosen path and motives.

Be honest to us and yourself.

Good luck

Seeing as the guessing game has started I want my tuppence worth...

My initial hope was that it was Ether related, the significance being that zero input required to stimulate a flow of energy would be a significant breakthrough. This would be based on a potential difference between the Ether and the device, or receiver if you prefer.

Much more likely to be an electrostatic device that exploits the potential difference of the Earth's electrical field.

Some further reading:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2011/08/08/the-amazing-motor-that-draws-power-from-the-air/

http://www.rexresearch.com/jefimenko/jefimenko.htm

My favourite bit...

Electricity Everywhere

The earth's electrical field has been known for centruries. Lightning and St Elmo's fire are the most dramatic manifestations of atmospheric electricity. But the field doesn't exist just in the vicinity of these events; it's everywhere.

The earth is an electrical conductor. So is the ionosphere, the layer of ionized gas about 70 kilometers over our heads. The air between is a rather poor insulator. Some mechanisms not yet explained constantly pumps large quantitites of charged particles into the air. The charged particles cause the electrical field that Jefimenko saw demonstrated. Although it varies widely, strength of the field averages 120 volts per meter.

You can measure this voltage with an earth-field antenna -- a wire with a sharp point at the top to start a corona, or with a bit of radioactive materials that ionizes the air in its immediate vicinity. near the earth, voltage is proportional to altitude; on an average day you might measure 1200 volts with a 10-meter antennas.

Over that past few years, aided by graduate-student Henry Fischbach-Nazario, Jefimenko designed advanced corona motors. With David K. Walker, he experimented with electret motors. An electret is an insulator with a permanent electrostatic charge. It produces a permanent electrostatic charge in the surrounding space, just as a magnet produces a permanent magnetic field. And like a magnet, it can be used to build a motor.

Jefimenko chose the electrostatic motor for his project because the earth-field antennas develop extremely high-voltage low-current power -- and unlike the electromagnetic motor -- that's exactly what it needs.

=====

This is a very old article (40 years ago) but I believe the mechanism for charged particles being pumped into the air can be explained by volcano's spewing hot molten rock up from the Earth's positively (+) charged core. I cover this, and other things, here:

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=182621

RM :)

Not a meg or a peltier.
Also I choose to present the product  at a public demostration. How much more tranparent can I be?
I will show how the device works and we will even take the componts and build one. I choose this method so that I can answer questions.
The fact that I have a patent pending, and only in the US, in no way means that I will not encourge world wide replication.
Again my intention is to create a company to realize the full potential of the device. I already have everything worked out to build a 1 kw system which I am sure would power the great majority of homes in the world. I also have the plans for a 12 watt system that could turn on a light for the millions of people in the world who live in darkness. My motives are my own for what I do. I do not ask for your approval only your patience.
As soon as I secure a demo location I will let everyone know.
I have picked a date for the demo of Wed. Aug 31.
This gives everyone who would like to attend time to plan. Also I am meeting with newpaper and TV people this week.
As I have said I believe no one will fault me if I am making available a complete set of building plans
for a nominal price. These plans will be detailed. This will be used to fund the enterprise as I will not accept venture capital or any outside help. All will come from the sale of the plans. It is the deal of a century!
Obviously the people at the demo will not really need them as they will leave with a complete understand of the device.
Second guessing my motives will be fruitles and non productive. There clear and out there.
Bill

congratulation bill, i believe its amazing  ;D

Bill,  One kilowatt.  Now you really have my attention.  Since you say you have that worked out hopefully that will cost less than 1 kilowatt of solar cells once in production.  As you can tell by the interest here the wait for your demo by us is going to be like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.  I pray for you, us and the world this all works out for the maximum benefit of everyone by helping to reduce our dependence on oil and coal and the PTB.

Sorry but I'm still concerned about some things.  Please read this notice from the U.S. Patent Office about the SAWS - Special Application Warning System.  Available here on our overunity forum :    http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=480

I would think since you've been around a while in the alternate energy movement you probably have seen this but if not maybe a read of this page would be good before finalizing your plans (I've followed alternate energy for over 20 years now) : 
http://peswiki.com/energy/Directory:Suppression

I apologize but I'm worried for you as I don't know what you have in place for safely getting this done.  And I don't want to know any details nor would I encourage you to post any other than what you have mentioned.  I hope it is enough.   Blessings. 

The patent that Bill has filed (or plans to file) is a PROVISIONAL PATENT.  It’s NOT a conventional patent and they are NOT even examined by the USPTO.  NEVER!!!  EVER!!!   Only conventional (full NON-provisional patents) are examined.  If Bill chooses to convert his provisional patent into a full patent, he has a year in which to do so.  It will be examined if he does convert it or is rejected and resubmits it.

How do I know the preceding statements are true?  Because I have filed a provisional patent and converted it before it expired for an invention that I had in the past.  If you doubt me one bit, just ask a licensed patent attorney.  I found this information out the day I retained the patent attorney who filed my application.

Chess

Good to know chessnyt.  I was posting that in case he did want to go the full nine yards.  There are quite a number of people here who have extensive knowledge on the patent process and you can find many good posts covering important knowledge of patent processes right on this forum.  IIRC one person was even a patent lawyer or former patent lawyer.  I don't think it hurts at all to repeat some of this info here. 

Quote from: ramset on August 15, 2011, 05:58:13 AM
Poit
After Having spoken with Bill about this.......
It is everything you could ask for ,he is giving this to the world Open Source .............
  Does he hope to make a buck ? Hopefully ,Some how,

Is that the reason he's bringing it to us?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
Your posts sound like a man that doesn't believe this could be true,that there could be men like Bill Who would be so Selfless............

Meet Bill Mehess ,Human Being Extraordinaire.
By this yardstick will men be measured........

Has he put checks in place to stop Naredowells?
You Got That Right!!

Chet
PS
And Speaking of Measuring ,I can hear them sharpening their "Rulers" Chomping at the bit ,[the measurerers out there].
But how do you measure something that makes power with No Input?

"Your posts sound like a man that doesn't believe this could be true" well... considering there is a track record of... um .. lets see here... 100% FAILURE RATE, in regards to things actually going ahead the way they were intended, forgive me for not believing this......

Just so I am clear, this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Bill, I am sure Bill is a great individual and is everything people say about him... thumbs up to Bill :)

What I am saying is this................. Not ONCE in the entire history of man kind has a free energy device gone wide spread opened source!!! don't believe me? show me, JUST ONE! not fussy.. just one... of course you cant.. because none exist (until now?) .........

Threads like this often have a formula (once you see enough of them)... goes like this... step one: someone makes a really awesome claim..... step two: people praise and cheer and say things like "finally the search is over"... yay free energy is here! so glad... etc etc... step three: nothing eventuates from it... ziltch, nothing........ this is the case in 100% of threads.... so forgive me for being a little sceptical that this thread JUST may be different from the 100% of other threads....

I have an open mind... please .. for the love of god... let this thread be real... so i can then say that 99% of threads are dead ends, and this is the holy grail.... please... (I assure you, I am NOT being sarcastic).

Don't worry Poit it's very real. I understand your frustrations had a few myself.
Bill

Wed. Aug. 30

Quote from: billmehess on August 16, 2011, 02:04:00 AM
Don't worry Poit it's very real. I understand your frustrations had a few myself.
Bill

Wed. Aug. 30

Cool :) ill sit and wait ... If you need a helping hand (i.e setting up a website or administration of a site or filehosting etc etc) - private message me.. glad to help

Quote from: billmehess on August 15, 2011, 10:53:15 PM
Not a meg or a peltier.

snip..

Second guessing my motives will be fruitles and non productive. There clear and out there.
Bill

Curiosity killed the cat, but this toad is still alive and waiting in anticipation.... KneeDeep

Not just galvanic effect I hope. Good luck

Quote from: hoptoad on August 16, 2011, 03:44:04 AM
Curiosity killed the cat, but this toad is still alive and waiting in anticipation.... KneeDeep

Not just galvanic effect I hope. Good luck

yup... i hope it isnt just a galvanic effect either...

Quote from: billmehess on August 15, 2011, 10:53:15 PM
I have picked a date for the demo of Wed. Aug 31.
All will come from the sale of the plans. It is the deal of a century!
Bill

Do you people learn nothing? 

How many of these "massive announcement in X amount days" type things has ever played out for you?  Big fat ZERO.  After each one you all walk away and say "never again will I be suckered" and yet here you are!  LOL

This has all the hallmarks of a fraudulent marketing 'bait and hook'.  First the big claim, then the "I will tell a select few in secret location in X amount weeks", (which generates sensational hype) then finally the 'hook'..."available in plans to help this lowly inventor for just $29.95.

Hillarious!

Say Bill.....you still selling those Chinese violins at state fairs and fraudulently claiming you hand made them because you "want to bring music to everyone"?

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:CORRECTION:Inventor_Bill_Mehess_Does_Sell_Hand-Made_Violins
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Mehess/message/12

What ever happened to your pendulum free energy device and the other Mehess Motor of 2006 that you were going to make available to people?

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bill_Mehess

Whatever man.......whatever.

I like most people here realise you are probably right Mr Goose. But I wouldn't be here If I didn't think maybe its possible. So why are you here?

My biggest concern is the 'no input' that in itself is near impossible, certainly it is impossible for a "nut and bolts kinda guy" we cannot prevent heat/cold or stray magnetic fields. not in this day and age. We can't prevent radiation or vibration, even light is hard to exclude.

One must prove that the output exceeds all known possible inputs, before we can claim any sort of OU, also talk of scaling up must be preceded by absolute knowledge of the source of the energy. Without knowing the true source talk of scaling up is just wishful thinking.

I thought the stories of the violins was put to rest. That some people were confused because they were similar to another manufacturers violin?

CC

Bill
Had another restless night [exciting stuff for me],
I remembered you said the device used Batteries but they would be in full view??
And it developed "Voltage" ?
Is my recollection correct ,or was I dreamin??

Slightly more delirious than usual!

Chetkremens@gmail.com

Bill,

I was wondering if you could provide anything in the forum of technical's? For obvious reasons if this is truly what you say would you not want at least a few other people here on the forum to have the information so they could share it in a worse case type situation?

I have never understood why someone would not instantly share such a discovery? I do not mean any disrespect, but if you have such a device would it not be better to release it now and let others start testing?

Thank you for all your hard work.

-Altrez

Why does this site always begin to turn so ugly.
I am not asking for anything from anybody.
Ramset must be your dream there are no batteries
The demo will take place on Aug 30 Wed.

POIT SAID,

What I am saying is this................. Not ONCE in the entire history of man kind has a free energy device gone wide spread opened source!!! don't believe me? show me, JUST ONE! not fussy.. just one... of course you cant.. because none exist (until now?) .........

Threads like this often have a formula (once you see enough of them)... goes like this... step one: someone makes a really awesome claim..... step two: people praise and cheer and say things like "finally the search is over"... yay free energy is here! so glad... etc etc... step three: nothing eventuates from it... ziltch, nothing........ this is the case in 100% of threads.... so forgive me for being a little sceptical that this thread JUST may be different from the 100% of other threads....

===========================================================================

Poit is exactly right.



.

Bill
Sorry,Perhaps we were mentioning other devices and how they work!

Thank You
Chet

Everybody here wishes Bill the GREATEST SUCCESS IN THE WORLD, & none of us intend any meanness or ugliness.

However, like Poit said, most of us have been around here a LONG TIME, & NOBODY has ever posted any O/U devices that works.

WHY, because "somebody" always gets to them & shuts them down.  Click on the Link below to learn more:


http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7lkjeEpOXj8AqeRXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDUCMyNzY2Njc5BF9yAzIEYW8DMQRjc3JjcHZpZANCUGxXQ0VvRzd2NGdrRXA5VGh3MmxRM3lSLjUuaFU1S2VDTUFDclptBGZyA3lmcC10LTQxNARmcjIDc2J0bgRuX2dwcwM5BG9yaWdpbgNzcnAEcXVlcnkDZGVhZCBzY2llbnRpc3RzBHNhbwMzBHZ0ZXN0aWQDUUkwMTc-?p=dead+scientists&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-414&type_param=

.

Quote from: FatBird on August 16, 2011, 10:02:23 AM
Everybody here wishes Bill the GREATEST SUCCESS IN THE WORLD, & none of us intend any meanness or ugliness.

However, like Poit said, most of us have been around here a LONG TIME, & NOBODY has ever posted any O/U devices that works.

WHY, because "somebody" always gets to them & shuts them down.  Click on the Link below to learn more:


http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7lkjeEpOXj8AqeRXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDUCMyNzY2Njc5BF9yAzIEYW8DMQRjc3JjcHZpZANCUGxXQ0VvRzd2NGdrRXA5VGh3MmxRM3lSLjUuaFU1S2VDTUFDclptBGZyA3lmcC10LTQxNARmcjIDc2J0bgRuX2dwcwM5BG9yaWdpbgNzcnAEcXVlcnkDZGVhZCBzY2llbnRpc3RzBHNhbwMzBHZ0ZXN0aWQDUUkwMTc-?p=dead+scientists&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-414&type_param=

.

Remember folks I do have been doing this for a long time also I have seen hundreds of OU claims and have yet to see any single one actually pan out. That has not been due to the inventor being eliminated but more do to the fact that the devices simply do not work.
Everyone wants me to post all the details now, thats not going to happen. I have a methodolgy
I am following for certain reasons. Demo date is Aug 30, Wed.

Be patient
Bill

Quote from: billmehess on August 16, 2011, 09:33:16 AM
Why does this site always begin to turn so ugly.
I am not asking for anything from anybody.
Ramset must be your dream there are no batteries
The demo will take place on Aug 30 Wed.

Interesting comment, Bill -- does that mean this is not an "air battery" of some sort, using dissimilar metals?   you said, "there are no batteries"

And I think you meant -- Aug 31 Wed.  Wishing you success!!

Quote from: billmehess on August 14, 2011, 06:23:04 PM
Not to worry all you good people all the necessry safeguards have been met.
I will have a location for the demo nailed down in the next few days.
I have received a number of request for direct contact- no problem for me
Bill Mehess
excel60@hotmail.com

Ah -- "excel60" in you email (thanks NP for the observation), leads one to do a search on youtube for excel60 ...
And we find an intriguing discussion of "water batteries"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdWKfav5s_8

AND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvNCrDTQZNk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Copper cathode and zinc-coated iron anode (galvanized).
(These can be purchased at larger hardware stores.)
And a few other interesting vids by excel60.

Did you do these "excel60" videos, Bill?   Thanks.

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 16, 2011, 12:03:40 PM
Ah -- "excel60" in you email (thanks NP for the observation), leads one to do a search on youtube for excel60 ...
And we find an intriguing discussion of "water batteries"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdWKfav5s_8

AND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvNCrDTQZNk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Copper cathode and zinc-coated iron anode (galvanized).
(These can be purchased at larger hardware stores.)
And a few other interesting vids by excel60.

Did you do these "excel60" videos, Bill?   Thanks.

Thats me

News Media at the demo Bill?, youtube video of same?

 :) Geography would prevent me from attending - sucks.
Wishing you the very best Bill.  I for one hope that this will be something we can replicate.
The world needs more people like you!
Thanks,
Brad S

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 16, 2011, 12:03:40 PM
Ah -- "excel60" in you email (thanks NP for the observation), leads one to do a search on youtube for excel60 ...
And we find an intriguing discussion of "water batteries"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdWKfav5s_8

AND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvNCrDTQZNk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Copper cathode and zinc-coated iron anode (galvanized).
(These can be purchased at larger hardware stores.)
And a few other interesting vids by excel60.

Did you do these "excel60" videos, Bill?   Thanks.

I think I see where you may be going with this so let me clarify a bit

All batteries require some kind of electrolyte to work , even the so called dry cell battery use an electrolyte in paste form.
Batteries have materials that are consumable
Lazerlight did some great work with a dry cell which had mgnesium strips interacting with a carbon center no electrolytes but the magnesium was consumable
Batteries increase in voltage when connected in series and in current (amperage) when connected in parallel.

My device:
No electrolyte
No Consumables
                                              New Information for all of you:

The individal modules increase in both amperage AND voltage when connected in parallel
There is a strong non moving mechanical component

GiantKiller you are 100% correct!  Any time you contract with a government dept or agency you have just given up all of your RIGHTS and converted them to restricted PRIVILEGES.   In effect  you have sold out when you contract to the government for anything. This includes so called health care and unemployment benefits or even to contract with them to hold a driving license. You need to know people the government in the US UK or almost anywhere do NOT represent the people they are corporations and are only interested in supporting their own interests as 100% commercial ventures.  Once you ask for a Patent you have just exchanged your invention and converted it to restricted contract privilege in other words you are now BEGGING to be allowed to use your invention alike a child asking for Candy! Be aware they can and often say NO to OU devices then you are totally 100% screwed as you just contracted with them by patent application and can be denied with the full force of the law under National Security.  This means they are afraid you will damage THEM the corporation as the Government of the United States has nothing to the with the people of the united states.

So you see GK is correct you become a Terrorist and so many people believe wrongly the Patriot Act is for terrorist running around in caves, setting off bombs on buses and hijacking planes but the real terrorist they are afraid is is the people of the united states becoming non compliant and thus a Terrorist by definition is one who disrupts "the system".  There is only one way.... FULL and open disclosure with nothing hidden whatsoever.

The bottom line is this you try to Patent an OU device then kiss your ass good bye it will NEVER see the light of day.

Steve,
Bill experiments with many different devices,this is no indication whatsoever of how this one works.

Bill ,
Knowing what a restless breed we are ,and since we have some time till the 30th [or 31st].
  If you had your druthers,what kind of discussions would you like to see here??

Sincerely,
Chet
PS
bolt ,Bill has just filed an application ,regardless on 8/30 2011
this will be open sourced ,after that it will be like trying to run around putting your hand over peoples nose and mouth and telling them to "fill out the paper work first" before they take a  breath.

A Moot point,at that point!

End of story...........

Quote from: billmehess on August 16, 2011, 09:33:16 AM
Why does this site always begin to turn so ugly.
I am not asking for anything from anybody.
Ramset must be your dream there are no batteries
The demo will take place on Aug 30 Wed.

Because there are paid trolls here as well as trolls who have a vested interest in keeping the oily polluted status quo.  And as someone else noticed also I'm sure you mean Aug 31st which is Wednesday and the date you originally posted.  Wish I could make it. 

   Bill seeing your last post regarding "New Information for all of you:
The individual modules increase in both amperage AND voltage when connected in parallel There is a strong non moving mechanical component." I have to ask if this has been validated.  I didn't want to bring up the error I saw in your Peltier thread but as was pointed out by many sharp members with anything I know of you can't connect individual components in series or parallel and get a multiplication of power like you were calculating in that thread.  If an individual component puts out .004 watts than 960 of them in series or parallel is going to be less than 4 watts not over 3600 watts as you had posted there.  At least unless you have figured out some way to bypass Ohms law and basic electrical laws.  I'm all for that if you have but I'm truly hoping this is not a calculation error.  I believe you really have something of great interest here so please don't take this in a bad way but I feel obligated to check this data since you have now posted that individual modules increase in both voltage and amperage when in parallel.  I may even be wrong here in assuming this is not possible under normal conditions much less whatever you have come up with but would be interested in any confirmation on these thoughts. 

Bill:

Way to go man and best of luck with your discovery.  As you know, I have done some work in this area and I can't wait to see what you have come up with.

I have been working a lot and just now was able to find this topic.

Excellent that you are willing to share, that is very cool.

Bill

Quote from: billmehess on August 16, 2011, 01:24:56 PM
I think I see where you may be going with this so let me clarify a bit

All batteries require some kind of electrolyte to work , even the so called dry cell battery use an electrolyte in paste form.
Batteries have materials that are consumable
Lazerlight did some great work with a dry cell which had mgnesium strips interacting with a carbon center no electrolytes but the magnesium was consumable
Batteries increase in voltage when connected in series and in current (amperage) when connected in parallel.

My device:
No electrolyte
No Consumables
                                              New Information for all of you:

The individal modules increase in both amperage AND voltage when connected in parallel
There is a strong non moving mechanical component

Thanks for your replies Bill, and for the new information.
One correction, you wrote:

QuoteBatteries increase in voltage when connected in series and in current (amperage) when connected in parallel.

  Actually, batteries connected in parallel will have the same voltage (assuming batteries of the same voltage) and therefore the SAME CURRENT (across a resistor, for example) by Ohm's Law, I = V/R.  Perhaps a minor point, but as a retired professor of physics, having taught EM for many years, I sort of jump in on points like that.  Habit, I guess.

QuoteThe individal modules increase in both amperage AND voltage when connected in parallel
There is a strong non moving mechanical component

I'm very curious just how the "The individal modules increase in both amperage AND voltage when connected in parallel" and  "There is a strong non moving mechanical component"  what this is component?  I guess we'll find out on 31 Aug Wednesday!

Thanks again, Bill.
StevenEJones

PS -- I was "early retired" at age 57 from a major university (full Professor of Physics) ... having a conscientious dedication to the truth regardless of political consequences.  And I very strongly support novel energy approaches; and will do all I can if asked to get around suppression efforts -- with which I'm very familiar from personal experience.

@ Bolt,

GiantKiller you are 100% correct!  Any time you contract with a government dept or agency you have just given up all of your RIGHTS and converted them to restricted PRIVILEGES.   In effect  you have sold out when you contract to the government for anything. This includes so called health care and unemployment benefits or even to contract with them to hold a driving license. You need to know people the government in the US UK or almost anywhere do NOT represent the people they are corporations and are only interested in supporting their own interests as 100% commercial ventures.

Once you ask for a Patent you have just exchanged your invention and converted it to restricted contract privilege in other words you are now BEGGING to be allowed to use your invention alike a child asking for Candy! Be aware they can and often say NO to OU devices then you are totally 100% screwed as you just contracted with them by patent application and can be denied with the full force of the law under National Security.  This means they are afraid you will damage THEM the corporation as the Government of the United States has nothing to the with the people of the united states.

So you see GK is correct you become a Terrorist and so many people believe wrongly the Patriot Act is for terrorist running around in caves, setting off bombs on buses and hijacking planes but the real terrorist they are afraid is is the people of the united states becoming non compliant and thus a Terrorist by definition is one who disrupts "the system".  There is only one way.... FULL and open disclosure with nothing hidden whatsoever.

The bottom line is this you try to Patent an OU device then kiss your ass good bye it will NEVER see the light of day.

=======================================================================

Very Well Put Bolt.  You are exactly right.

.

Quote from: e2matrix on August 16, 2011, 01:43:24 PM
Because there are paid trolls here as well as trolls who have a vested interest in keeping the oily polluted status quo.  And as someone else noticed also I'm sure you mean Aug 31st which is Wednesday and the date you originally posted.  Wish I could make it. 

   Bill seeing your last post regarding "New Information for all of you:
The individual modules increase in both amperage AND voltage when connected in parallel There is a strong non moving mechanical component." I have to ask if this has been validated.  I didn't want to bring up the error I saw in your Peltier thread but as was pointed out by many sharp members with anything I know of you can't connect individual components in series or parallel and get a multiplication of power like you were calculating in that thread.  If an individual component puts out .004 watts than 960 of them in series or parallel is going to be less than 4 watts not over 3600 watts as you had posted there.  At least unless you have figured out some way to bypass Ohms law and basic electrical laws.  I'm all for that if you have but I'm truly hoping this is not a calculation error.  I believe you really have something of great interest here so please don't take this in a bad way but I feel obligated to check this data since you have now posted that individual modules increase in both voltage and amperage when in parallel.  I may even be wrong here in assuming this is not possible under normal conditions much less whatever you have come up with but would be interested in any confirmation on these thoughts.

Yes I remember my peliter mistake , this is not the case here. The device absolutly works in the parallel mode. If I take say 4 modules that are putting out 100 mv ( they do not all put out exactly the same amount I am using this to simply) if I put them in series my voltage is around  170mv if I connect them in parallel the voltage is around 380mv.
One of the other devices setting next to it has 6 modules and in parallel they put out around 510 mv
and in series 185 mv ?????????????????????????
Also the current increases as it should. I know this because I can connect the device to a capacitor (I usually use a electrolytic 25 4900 mf for this purpose) and in one hour I can record the voltage in the cap. The voltage is always directly perportional to the number of modules in parallel, which of course is the way it should be.
If this is not strage enough get this. When I take the 6 module group and connect in series to the 4 module group I get an expected increase.
My 6 mod group is putting out around 510 mv and my 4 mod group (again all hooked up in parallel)
is putting out 360  mv in series this raises to around 700 mv. Not quite the 870 mv I would expect.
But at this point since I have wires everywhere I most likely am experiencing  some voltage loss.
It's a mystery
Bill

Hi Bill,

Want to ad my congrats to you if your device can do what you say...  Please stay the course and show your device, then please share with the world so we can end oil company domination over the masses.  I hope that is your plan.  Staying tuned.....

Quote from: billmehess on August 16, 2011, 03:50:54 PM
[snip]
Also the current increases as it should. I know this because I can connect the device to a capacitor (I usually use a electrolytic 25 4900 mf for this purpose) and in one hour I can record the voltage in the cap. The voltage is always directly perportional to the number of modules in parallel, which of course is the way it should be.
[snip]
Bill

Bill, I very much appreciate empirical results like this.  I'm fine with looking at this as a "black box" for now; and having some data to pique our interest.

QuoteMy 6 mod group is putting out around 510 mv and my 4 mod group (again all hooked up in parallel)
is putting out 360  mv in series this raises to around 700 mv.

My question -- as you hook up this latter device to your 4900mF cap (did you mean, 4900 uF?), how LONG (in seconds) does the cap take to go from 0 volts up to, say 0.5V?   From this and the value of the capacitor, one can estimate the power output, which would be very instructive I think.

Quote from: FatBird on August 16, 2011, 03:24:53 PM
@ Bolt,

GiantKiller you are 100% correct!  Any time you contract with a government dept or agency you have just given up all of your RIGHTS and converted them to restricted PRIVILEGES.   In effect  you have sold out when you contract to the government for anything. This includes so called health care and unemployment benefits or even to contract with them to hold a driving license. You need to know people the government in the US UK or almost anywhere do NOT represent the people they are corporations and are only interested in supporting their own interests as 100% commercial ventures.

Once you ask for a Patent you have just exchanged your invention and converted it to restricted contract privilege in other words you are now BEGGING to be allowed to use your invention alike a child asking for Candy! Be aware they can and often say NO to OU devices then you are totally 100% screwed as you just contracted with them by patent application and can be denied with the full force of the law under National Security.  This means they are afraid you will damage THEM the corporation as the Government of the United States has nothing to the with the people of the united states.

So you see GK is correct you become a Terrorist and so many people believe wrongly the Patriot Act is for terrorist running around in caves, setting off bombs on buses and hijacking planes but the real terrorist they are afraid is is the people of the united states becoming non compliant and thus a Terrorist by definition is one who disrupts "the system".  There is only one way.... FULL and open disclosure with nothing hidden whatsoever.

The bottom line is this you try to Patent an OU device then kiss your ass good bye it will NEVER see the light of day.

=======================================================================

Very Well Put Bolt.  You are exactly right.

.

Question especially for Bolt, GiantKiller and FatBird:

What if it is a Provisional Patent -- do your comments still apply?  I eagerly await your responses, taking into account what Chessnyt earlier said about Provisional Patents:

Quote
chessnyt
The patent that Bill has filed (or plans to file) is a PROVISIONAL PATENT.  It’s NOT a conventional patent and they are NOT even examined by the USPTO.  NEVER!!!  EVER!!!   Only conventional (full NON-provisional patents) are examined.  If Bill chooses to convert his provisional patent into a full patent, he has a year in which to do so.  It will be examined if he does convert it or is rejected and resubmits it.

How do I know the preceding statements are true?  Because I have filed a provisional patent and converted it before it expired for an invention that I had in the past.  If you doubt me one bit, just ask a licensed patent attorney.  I found this information out the day I retained the patent attorney who filed my application.

Chess

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 16, 2011, 04:21:28 PM
Bill, I very much appreciate empirical results like this.  I'm fine with looking at this as a "black box" for now; and having some data to pique our interest.

My question -- as you hook up your device to a 4900mF cap (did you mean, 4900 uF?), how LONG (in seconds) does the cap take to go from 0 volts up to, say 0.5V?   From this, one can estimate the power output, which would be very instructive I think.

Yes this would certainly help me , and yes I meant to say uf not mf. When I connect the two sets of modules together in series I get again around a 700 mv out put , but the total of the summation of all the individuals is around 1400 mv, voltage loss?
Anyway at 700 mv connected to the cap. and using a multimeter and starting with the cap reading 0.00 the cap will charge at the rate of about 180 mv/hour.
Now I have a way to increase the current output substanially to radically improve the amperage available.
Based on these figures could you calculate the power output.
The physical size of the 10 modules  is around 12" x 5" x 5" total for all 10. This can be scaled down greatly but that size is not really of concern to me at this point in the game.
Bill

I just re-read above the voltage on the cap after 1 hr is 280 mv not 180 mv.

Hi Bill,

we are excited to see someone advance at least some in this endeavor!  Have you tried to build or cover your system with a Faraday Shield of some sort to see if there is an effect?  Perhaps you could time the rate of charge with and without the shield in place.

Good luck and good science,  Jeff Smathers  Molalla, Oregon

Quote from: billmehess on August 16, 2011, 04:34:53 PM
Yes this would certainly help me , and yes I meant to say uf not mf. When I connect the two sets of modules together in series I get again around a 700 mv out put , but the total of the summation of all the individuals is around 1400 mv, voltage loss?
Anyway at 700 mv connected to the cap. and using a multimeter and starting with the cap reading 0.00 the cap will charge at the rate of about 180 mv/hour.
Now I have a way to increase the current output substanially to radically improve the amperage available.
Based on these figures could you calculate the power output.
The physical size of the 10 modules  is around 12" x 5" x 5" total for all 10. This can be scaled down greatly but that size is not really of concern to me at this point in the game.
Bill

I just re-read above the voltage on the cap after 1 hr is 280 mv not 180 mv.

OK -- running, but quickly (someone pls check my math) I get:

E = 1/2 CV**2 - 0 = 1/2 * 4900 uF (0.280V)**2 = 0.192 Joules

Then, since 1 hour is 3600 seconds, the power is:

P = E/time = 0.192 J/3600 seconds = 53 microwatts

Can you run anything from your device without charging a cap first? For example say a Joule Thief?

Thanks!

-Altrez

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 16, 2011, 06:01:06 PM
OK -- running, but quickly (someone pls check my math) I get:

E = 1/2 CV**2 - 0 = 1/2 * 4900 uF (0.280V)**2 = 0.192 Joules

Then, since 1 hour is 3600 seconds, the power is:

P = E/time = 0.192 J/3600 seconds = 53 microwatts

Thank you very helpful
Bill

Bill,
I have just read through all the posts in this thread to make sure no one has asked this already, and they have not.

a yes or no answer will suffice just fine.

Do you know why your device works?

TO ALL:
lets remember that if the gov. does come to Bill, take his device from him, and make him sign a NDA, then he will not be able to come here and tell us that it happened to him.
We will not hear from Bill again if this happens.
LC

Quote from: loosecannon on August 16, 2011, 06:52:28 PM

TO ALL:
lets remember that if the gov. does come to Bill, take his device from him, and make him sign a NDA, then he will not be able to come here and tell us that it happened to him.
We will not hear from Bill again if this happens.
LC

What an odd thing to say.

Is this a veiled warning?

with apologies to dr. seuss and my 8th grade english teacher,

I am Bill
I am Bill
Bill I am, that Bill-I-am!
That Bill-I-am!
I do not like
that Bill-I-am

Do you like
free source and overunity?

I do not like them,
Bill-I-am.
I do not like
free source and overunity.

Would you like them
Here or there?

I would not like them
here or there.
I would not like them
anywhere.
I do not like
free source and overunity.
I do not like them,
Bill-I-am

Would you like them
in a house?
Would you like them
with a lab mouse?

I do not like them
in a house.
I do not like them
with a lab mouse.
I do not like them
here or there.
I do not like them
anywhere.
I do not like free source and overunity.
I do not like them, Bill-I-am.


Would you try them
in a faraday cage?
Would you try them
while in a rage?

Not in a faraday cage.
Not in a rage.
Not in a house.
Not with a lab mouse.
I would not try them here or there.
I would not try them anywhere.
I would not try free source and overunity.
I do not like them, Bill-I-am.

Would you? Could you?
in a car?
Try them! Try them!
Here they are.

I would not,
could not,
in a car

You may like them.
You will see.
You may like them
in a tree?

I would not, could not in a tree.
Not in a car! You let me be.

I do not like them in a faraday cage.
I do not like them in a rage
I do not like them in a house
I do mot like them with a lab mouse
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere.
I do not like free source and overunity.
I do not like them, Bill-I-am.

A train! A train!
A train! A train!
Could you, would you
on a train?

Not on a train! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! Bill! Let me be!
I would not, could not, in a faraday cage.
I could not, would not, in a rage.
I will not try them with a lab mouse
I will not try them in a house.
I will not try them here or there.
I will not try them anywhere.
I do not like them, Bill-I-am.

Say!
In the park?
Here in the park!
Would you, could you, in the park?

I would not, could not,
in the park.

Would you, could you,
in the rain?

I would not, could not, in the rain.
Not in the dark. Not on a train,
Not in a car, Not in a tree.
I do not like them, Bill, you see.
Not in a house. Not in a faraday cage.
Not with a mouse. Not in a rage.
I will not try them here or there.
I do not like them anywhere!

You do not like
free source and overunity?

I do not
like them,
Bill-I-am.

Could you, would you,
on a ship at sea?

I would not,
could not.
on a ship at sea!

Would you, could you,
at Portland OMSI?

I could not, would not, at Portland OMSI.
I will not, will not, on a ship at sea.
I will not try them in the rain.
I will not try them on a train.
Not in the park! Not in a tree!
Not in a car! You let me be!
I do not like them in a faraday cage.
I do not like them while in a rage.
I will not try them in a house.
I do not like them with a lab mouse.
I do not like them here or there.
I do not like them ANYWHERE!

I do not like
free source and overunity!

I do not like them,
Bill-I-am.

You do not like them.
SO you say.
Try them! Try them!
And you may.
Try them and you may I say.

Bill!
If you will let me be,
I will try them.
You will see.

Say!
I like free source and overunity!
I do!! I like them, Bill-I-am!
And I would try them at Portland OMSI!
And I would try them on a ship at sea...
And I will try them in the rain.
And in the park. And on a train.
And in a car. And in a tree.
They are so good so good you see!

So I will try them at Portland OMSI.
And I will try them on a ship at sea.
And I will try them in a house.
And I will try them with a lab mouse.
And I will try them here and there.
Say! I will try them ANYWHERE!

I do so like
free source and overunity!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Bill-I-am

=======================================

Does it work in your house, your yard, the nearest field, under a transmission line, etc, etc? Always the same output? You might want to buy a ticket to OMSI just to be sure ....  :)

tak

Quote from: loosecannon on August 16, 2011, 06:52:28 PM
Bill,
I have just read through all the posts in this thread to make sure no one has asked this already, and they have not.

a yes or no answer will suffice just fine.

Do you know why your device works?

TO ALL:
lets remember that if the gov. does come to Bill, take his device from him, and make him sign a NDA, then he will not be able to come here and tell us that it happened to him.
We will not hear from Bill again if this happens.
LC

Yes I do

As to Takk 22 and Dr Suess I think someone has got way to much time on his hands (but it did put a smile on my face)

thank you Bill.

this means that your results stand a much better chance of being repeatable.

bourne,
no, not a veiled warning.
sometimes these threads just die suddenly, and some assume its because the device did not really work.
that is not always the case.
LC

I'm still confused is it Tuesday the 30th or Wednesday the 31st.

Sorry about that
It's Wed Aug 31

If Tak goes to the event will he be allowed to recite poetry??

Quote from: ramset on August 16, 2011, 08:39:13 PM
If Tak goes to the event will he be allowed to recite poetry??

Only if we spot some MIB's.  That will drive them away faster than a cat chasing mice.  ;)

I cannot find a single valid reason for non-disclosure at this point.

Not one. (Monetary gains? Uncertainty about the device? Does not work quite yet?)

This approach is proven to fail and that´s a pity. If you have found a working passive generator do yourself and the world a favor and disclose what you have found as soon as possible without any drama nor mystery.

The world needs this now more than ever. And as I said before: you will get the honor, glory and be rich all at once. No need for a company, demo or anything else. A youtube instructional video with links to blueprints will do just fine.

Quote from: AquariuZ on August 16, 2011, 09:13:33 PM
I cannot find a single valid reason for non-disclosure at this point.

Not one. (Monetary gains? Uncertainty about the device? Does not work quite yet?)

This approach is proven to fail and that´s a pity. If you have found a working passive generator do yourself and the world a favor and disclose what you have found as soon as possible without any drama nor mystery.

The world needs this now more than ever. And as I said before: you will get the honor, glory and be rich all at once. No need for a company, demo or anything else. A youtube instructional video with links to blueprints will do just fine.

Everything you are asking for will happen on Aug. 31 2011. Not 2 years from now or 2 months from now but 2 weeks from now.
Bill

OK --

I've checked my math and found it correct, to recap:

53 MICROwatts for Bill's 10-module system (connecting the 6-modules with the 4-modules). 

See below along with previous posts -- I have also checked from Bill's comments that the 280mV rise in the 4900 uF cap took one hour for "the two sets of modules together in series".

  But please correct me if my calculations are wrong, because, Bill and other friends,  this is a very VERY tiny effect:

1.  53 uW for 10 modules means about 5.3 microwatts/module (average)

2.  To reach just ONE watt would thus require about 189,000 modules.

3.  Earlier there was an indication that one could get the materials needed to build a module at a hardware store for less than $20.  OK, let's say just $10.

4.  Combining 2 and 3, we find that for ONE stinkin' watt it will cost roughly $1,890,000 -- nearly 2 million bucks ! 

5.  Let's take roughly 1 kW to run a house (a low estimate I believe) -- the cost for the modules (with present data) would be $1,890,000,000 or nearly $2 Billion bucks.  That's billion with a "B".
  I can't afford it.

5.  By comparison, solar panels are now available for about $1.50 per watt output, a factor of roughly a million CHEAPER than this device, at present.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.  I hope I'm wrong.  OR -- I hope the device can be SCALED up in output POWER by a factor of roughly a million without raising the price... Is this possible?

Quote from: billmehess on August 16, 2011, 04:34:53 PM
Yes this would certainly help me , and yes I meant to say uf not mf. When I connect the two sets of modules together in series I get again around a 700 mv out put , but the total of the summation of all the individuals is around 1400 mv, voltage loss?
Anyway at 700 mv connected to the cap. and using a multimeter and starting with the cap reading 0.00 the cap will charge at the rate of about 180 mv/hour.
Now I have a way to increase the current output substanially to radically improve the amperage available.
Based on these figures could you calculate the power output.
The physical size of the 10 modules  is around 12" x 5" x 5" total for all 10. This can be scaled down greatly but that size is not really of concern to me at this point in the game.
Bill

I just re-read above the voltage on the cap after 1 hr is 280 mv not 180 mv.

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 17, 2011, 12:29:49 AM
OK --

I've checked my math and found it correct, to recap:

53 MICROwatts for Bill's 10-module system (connecting the 6-modules with the 4-modules). 

See below along with previous posts -- I have also checked from Bill's comments that the 280mV rise in the 4900 uF cap took one hour for "the two sets of modules together in series".

  But please correct me if my calculations are wrong, because, Bill and other friends,  this is a very VERY tiny effect:

1.  53 uW for 10 modules means about 5.3 microwatts/module (average)

2.  To reach just ONE watt would thus require about 189,000 modules.

3.  Earlier there was an indication that one could get the materials needed to build a module at a hardware store for less than $20.  OK, let's say just $10.

4.  Combining 2 and 3, we find that for ONE stinkin' watt it will cost roughly $1,890,000 -- nearly 2 million bucks ! 

5.  Let's take roughly 1 kW to run a house (a low estimate I believe) -- the cost for the modules (with present data) would be $1,890,000,000 or nearly $2 Billion bucks.  That's billion with a "B".
  I can't afford it.

5.  By comparison, solar panels are now available for about $1.50 per watt output, a factor of roughly a million CHEAPER than this device, at present.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.  I hope I'm wrong.  OR -- I hope the device can be SCALED up in output POWER by a factor of roughly a million without raising the price... Is this possible?

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 17, 2011, 12:29:49 AM
OK --

I've checked my math and found it correct, to recap:

53 MICROwatts for Bill's 10-module system (connecting the 6-modules with the 4-modules). 

See below along with previous posts -- I have also checked from Bill's comments that the 280mV rise in the 4900 uF cap took one hour for "the two sets of modules together in series".

  But please correct me if my calculations are wrong, because, Bill and other friends,  this is a very VERY tiny effect:

1.  53 uW for 10 modules means about 5.3 microwatts/module (average)

2.  To reach just ONE watt would thus require about 189,000 modules.

3.  Earlier there was an indication that one could get the materials needed to build a module at a hardware store for less than $20.  OK, let's say just $10.

4.  Combining 2 and 3, we find that for ONE stinkin' watt it will cost roughly $1,890,000 -- nearly 2 million bucks ! 

5.  Let's take roughly 1 kW to run a house (a low estimate I believe) -- the cost for the modules (with present data) would be $1,890,000,000 or nearly $2 Billion bucks.  That's billion with a "B".
  I can't afford it.

5.  By comparison, solar panels are now available for about $1.50 per watt output, a factor of roughly a million CHEAPER than this device, at present.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.  I hope I'm wrong.  OR -- I hope the device can be SCALED up in output POWER by a factor of roughly a million without raising the price... Is this possible?

My demo will show a device delivering considerbly more output, the figures I gave you is off my bench model with none of the upgrades I have yet to incorporate.
Bill

It never ceases to amaze me the level of paranoia some people have. There are not paid trolls looking at this or any other OU forum. We did land on the moon and no there are no alien towers on Mars.

So you are as safe as the rest of us. More danger from meteorites than the MIB.

The reason why we have never heard of a working ou device is because one has never successfully been made. We would have heard about it otherwise. we have heard of hundreds of failed devices and of plenty of fraud. OU comes with all the usual lowlives prepared to take others for a ride.

The reason why threads go silent is the 'inventor' suddenly realises he has made a mistake and it cannot be done. They go quiet mainly from pure embarrassment.

Some people will make claims like I know of twenty OU devices. But in fact they know of twenty youtube videos that they want to be true. that's it nothing else.

Jouleseeker is correct in his summation. It worries me when Bill say's that's his current setup, not the enhancements he is planning. In other words its not tested. 5.3 microwatts can be easily got from dissimilar metals as in a  thermocouple, a small piece of quarts crystal as in a piezo electric device. a magnet and a coil which vibrates when the wind rattles the house. Wire up a speaker and watch the voltage across is as people speak.

There a plenty of ways to develop this sort of voltage/current and mistakenly believe its an ou device.

Sorry Bill I do not mean to be disrespectful, but I am now seriously concerned.


CC

Quote from: CuriousChris on August 17, 2011, 05:31:10 AM
It never ceases to amaze me the level of paranoia some people have. There are not paid trolls looking at this or any other OU forum. We did land on the moon and no there are no alien towers on Mars.

So you are as safe as the rest of us. More danger from meteorites than the MIB.

The reason why we have never heard of a working ou device is because one has never successfully been made. We would have heard about it otherwise. we have heard of hundreds of failed devices and of plenty of fraud. OU comes with all the usual lowlives prepared to take others for a ride.

The reason why threads go silent is the 'inventor' suddenly realises he has made a mistake and it cannot be done. They go quiet mainly from pure embarrassment.

Some people will make claims like I know of twenty OU devices. But in fact they know of twenty youtube videos that they want to be true. that's it nothing else.

Jouleseeker is correct in his summation. It worries me when Bill say's that's his current setup, not the enhancements he is planning. In other words its not tested. 5.3 microwatts can be easily got from dissimilar metals as in a  thermocouple, a small piece of quarts crystal as in a piezo electric device. a magnet and a coil which vibrates when the wind rattles the house. Wire up a speaker and watch the voltage across is as people speak.

There a plenty of ways to develop this sort of voltage/current and mistakenly believe its an ou device.

Sorry Bill I do not mean to be disrespectful, but I am now seriously concerned.


CC

You make a lot of valid points. Just last night I tested random chunks of metal and was able to get a constant 60mv output and use a small cap to capture the energy.

It's really easy to mistake such discovery's as OU. One can even power a red LED by creating just a small difference of potential.

I do wish you the best of luck Bill and I hope you shock the world on the 31st with your discovery :)

-Altrez

Quote from: altrez on August 17, 2011, 08:43:23 AM
You make a lot of valid points. Just last night I tested random chunks of metal and was able to get a constant 60mv output and use a small cap to capture the energy.

It's really easy to mistake such discovery's as OU. One can even power a red LED by creating just a small difference of potential.

I do wish you the best of luck Bill and I hope you shock the world on the 31st with your discovery :)

-Altrez

Thats exactly what im worried about.... lets assume for a second that Bill is certain there is no galvanic reaction what so ever...... it still could be radio waves powering his device....

@Bill.. have you tried running your device in a faraday cage? Also, what messures have you done to ensure you have not deceived your self in the findings? like the faraday cage example... or looking for corrosion of any potentional difference of metals in your device...

good luck
poit

jesus people... give it rest until the 31st. find something to do other than endless speculation. try real life, the outdoors, or a game of solitaire if you're that freaking bored... this thread is 10 pages already, it will be 40 pages before the 31st. pathetic. ::)

I understand your concern please review what I have claimed.

Voltage in = 0
Voltage out = 800 mv
No electrolytes
No consumables
No heat produced
No emissions
Yes the power (wattage) is low on my bench model
I will be begining today to add my upgrades to increase the power output.
I have never claimed that I am going to show a device that will run a car but a device that is producing a steady output of  energy with NO INPUT. This device is very scaleable.
Don't be concerned at this point about the low wattage reading I expected that. I have the solutions.
I am moving at a logical pace and my methodolgy is solid.
I will be in my shop all day and do not plan to even look at this site until tonight-to distracting.
Bill

  Thanks Willy Right you are!

Quote from: billmehess on August 17, 2011, 10:12:35 AM
I understand your concern please review what I have claimed.

Voltage in = 0
Voltage out = 800 mv
No electrolytes
No consumables
No heat produced
No emissions
Yes the power (wattage) is low on my bench model
I will be begining today to add my upgrades to increase the power output.
I have never claimed that I am going to show a device that will run a car but a device that is producing a steady output of  energy with NO INPUT. This device is very scaleable.
Don't be concerned at this point about the low wattage reading I expected that. I have the solutions.
I am moving at a logical pace and my methodolgy is solid.
I will be in my shop all day and do not plan to even look at this site until tonight-to distracting.
Bill

To the comment above this one-  Thanks Willy Right you are!

Sorry repeat of above one of these days I will actually learn how to use this site

 Bill,  I sincerely wish you well in your scaling-up efforts.

The short essay below is based on a post in another forum back in March, and i recommend it still:

  I have been active in novel-energy research since the early 1980's beginning with my research in muon-catalyzed fusion.  See, for example, my paper in Nature 1986:
S.E. Jones, "Muon-Catalysed Fusion Revisited," (Invited article) Nature 321: 127-133 (1986).

   I share with many of you an overall goal of seeking for and promoting novel energy sources -- with scientific RIGOR including careful measurements -- without RANCOR or mocking.  I have found  this forum to provide a decent venue to promote rigor while -- for the most part-- avoiding mocking and rancor.  That's why I'm here.

I have at my home electronics bench an ATTEN 1062C digital storage oscilloscope, a DC power supply and a self-ranging multimeter, and a decent supply of transistors, resistors, inductors, capacitors, LED's, wire, etc.   At the University from which I retired after a career of physics research and teaching for over twenty years, I have access to more expensive scopes such as a Tektronix 3032 ( which will calculate MEAN power) as well as function generators, gaussmeters, etc.  I now live in the country, but I drive up to the university from time to time.   IOW, I have some pretty decent test equipment available -- and I would be glad to use to it to test YOUR novel-energy device, if you claim it meets the criteria below.

I would define a "novel energy" (NE) device that has merit for science and for society as follows -- here are my criteria at this time:

1.  Energy from a non-conventional source.  This excludes:  fossil fuels and biomass burning, solar (including wind and wave power), geothermal, nuclear fission or fusion (although I should not exclude cold fusion -- but see point 3).  It does not exclude:  earth's gravitational or magnetic fields, galactic magnetic fields.  Even currently unknown sources are allowable -- and sought.

2.  More power out than in (that is, efficiency n = Pout/Pin > 1), also known as "overunity" (OU).  This does not mean that principles of physics such as conservation of energy are (necessarily) violated.  It does imply a novel energy source.  Multiple methods of measurement are preferable, but the experimental method and the measurements must bear scrutiny (e.g., a peer-reviewed paper would be great!)

3.  The observation of OU must be repeatable.  A device must work every time specified conditions are met.  Successful replication must be demonstrated also.

4.  The power output must be capable of scaling up.  (Unlike extracting tiny currents from a magnet or iron pyrite, for example.) To be more than a curiosity, a scaled-up working device should produce at least tens of watts.

5.  I would prefer that results and inventions be freely available worldwide -- certainly not controlled by some big corporation or government entity.  A benefit to humanity is sought, not beaucoup-bucks for an elite few.

6.  If a theoretical model is claimed, the basis of that model needs to be empirically demonstrated. 

I welcome comments on the stated criteria, which I may amend as time goes on.

All good points Dr. Jones!  And to put it simply it has been my concern from the start that this at least has the potential to be real world useful while being affordable.  If it is does not have that potential than it is just a novelty to be further scrutinized to see if there is any real world use.  If not than it's just a science toy.  I had run some calulations similar to yours and was finding similar results.  However I think we just need to wait and see as Bill has stated he has plans for a 1 kilowatt unit.  At this point I'm not sure anyone, even Bill knows if that will be affordable and real world usable but we can hope with refinement it will be. 

    My main concern now is that Bill gets to show this and that what he is showing does not have any major errors in measurements so he will garner the positive attention with any public demonstrations.  I sense that is why many here will continue to ask questions, not out of disbelief in Bill or intending anything negative but to help in his quest to move forward.  I wish him all success but I do wish he could share here with at least you and maybe one or two other trusted people here the details of his concept before going public.  Doing so with a limited time NDA would be ideal IMO. 

Hi Bill:
   The way I see this, at 800mv, it should power a julethief circuit. That being enough to light up led's for lights for nothing. I cringe at what it costs me now just to run lights.  I am going to really try and be there. My job gave me a flat "NO" for the day off.
   Can you tell me what the event time will be? As long as I am back and in bed by 2PM, I can handle it. So before noon would be great to hear. Rock the house.

thay

SSOOOoooo W ,
You still doin the wednesday night poker games??

Took a bunch of the fellahs fishin today Huh? was gettin a bit noisy?

Still have me on ignore Huh?
Listen ,I didn't want to let the little fishy's go on the last fishin trip But
They were Staring at Me   :o :o :o.............
SORRY
Will you ever take me fishing again? or take me off ignore?

Well you're still a nice man Wilby ,I hope you win tonight.......

Chet

Hi folks, Hi Bill, do you consider tap water to be an electrolyte, just wondering as i saw your videos and filled a little glass and used steel bolt and copper and I got around 800 millivots.
I as well look forward to what you will be sharing.
peace love light
tyson

Quote from: SkyWatcher123 on August 17, 2011, 06:58:39 PM
Hi folks, Hi Bill, do you consider tap water to be an electrolyte, just wondering as i saw your videos and filled a little glass and used steel bolt and copper and I got around 800 millivots.
I as well look forward to what you will be sharing.
peace love light
tyson

Hi tyson,  somewhere back in this thread Bill said 'solid state' and 'no liquids' so I don't think it's like a previous work he did with those liquid cells I saw in one of his video's. 

OK, Physics Prof Steven E. Jones.
No need, IMHO, to  mention your credentials.

It is a real pleasure to have such a person like you in this very forum.
Yes, you kinda sold you out to the "enemy". Did you ?
I mean: the "enemy" is the "Free NRG" crowd.
Thanks again.

Very Best

@CuriousChris

Just my tuppence worth: my intuition and my left brain too, tell me that you are a very perfidious (= tückisch in German) person.

I have no maths to backup this statement.
Anyway: Very Best.

  E2matrix raises a very good idea, IMO -- a non-disclosure agreement that has a Limited Duration, so that the person agrees to stay quiet for a time, not forever.  In this way, trusted fellows could be involved in a replication, Bill, and yet they would keep it quiet until AFTER your announcement on Wed 31 Aug.
Sounds like a plan -- what do you think?

Quote from: NerzhDishual on August 17, 2011, 08:44:55 PM
OK, Physics Prof Steven E. Jones.
No need, IMHO, to  mention your credentials.

It is a real pleasure to have such a person like you in this very forum.
Yes, you kinda sold you out to the "enemy". Did you ?
I mean: the "enemy" is the "Free NRG" crowd.
Thanks again.

Very Best

I'm not sure what you mean by this...  would you explain?
"Thanks again." and "Very Best" have positive connotations, but "kinda sold you out to the 'enemy'" has negative connotations and so your meaning is obscure (to me).  Pls explain your meaning.

Just so you know, I have been working on non-conventional energy for about three decades, beginning with my research on muon-catalyzed fusion.

I have one comment regarding 'there is no such thing as OU' some people seem to think.

Just take look at Thane's BiTT. It has been verified by third party and it gives more out than goes in. Theory of operation is simple to understand and it is very easy to build. Even I managed to build one using scrap material and I got about 1.85 COP, 26 watts out for free. It feels nice to think that I was able to build a better transformer than any commercial trafo out there as they all have COP < 1.

But immediately this raises my concern, since OU is so simple, why I cannot buy OU trafos from my local store ? Surely OU trafo would be a successfull product and with a bit of tuning using better core materials a guaranteed success.

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 18, 2011, 02:01:37 AM
Sounds like a plan -- what do you think?

bill already has a plan... which is to demo it on the 31st.  -- i think you should stop behaving like an impetuous child, show a little patience and respect... and wait 'till the 31st... ::)

No Steve
You need to ,Must ............Have to,
Look here

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-42.html
Excerpt

The “transmission time” viewpoint allows us view the second assumption of Newton’s Third Law as an assumption of absolute time (or absolute simultaneity), if the action is at a distance. This assumption continues despite the reality that the “reaction” of a body to an externally applied force can not be simultaneous with the initial application (the “action”) of the external force. This profound restriction on Newton’s Law brings time into the equation -- a restriction which becomes the critical factor.

It should be noted that this concept of a non-simultaneous “reaction time” to an applied force (whatever the nature of that force is considered to be) is applicable not only in mechanics, but also in electromagnetism and other fields of physics. A sudden surge (an “action”) of current along a conductor, for example, will also result in an equal and opposite reaction -- but again not simultaneously. Likewise a rotating shaft surrounded by permanent magnets arranged so as to impel the rotation will encounter an equal and opposite magnetic force which will brake the rotation -- after a time delay, or what might be called the “Critical Action Time” (CAT)!

------------------

Holy Guacamole Boyz N girls [not sure we have any girls]

The posts of the last few days at the above site!!!
Cranky Pants Unveiled,[well that might be "scary"]

No ,its more like Now I get it
And so will you !!

Chet
PS
A discusion thread has been reignited here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg16226;topicseen#msg16226

And at this Forum here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=11312.msg298257#new

WOW
Toranarod
Elias
Shadesz
And Many others............

Thanks, Jack and Chet -- very encouraging.  "26 watts for free", Jack is to be congratulated, using "scrap materials".  Can you provide detail?  Again, replication is the key.

Quote from: Jack Noskills on August 18, 2011, 02:44:49 AM
I have one comment regarding 'there is no such thing as OU' some people seem to think.

Just take look at Thane's BiTT. It has been verified by third party and it gives more out than goes in. Theory of operation is simple to understand and it is very easy to build. Even I managed to build one using scrap material and I got about 1.85 COP, 26 watts out for free. It feels nice to think that I was able to build a better transformer than any commercial trafo out there as they all have COP < 1.

But immediately this raises my concern, since OU is so simple, why I cannot buy OU trafos from my local store ? Surely OU trafo would be a successfull product and with a bit of tuning using better core materials a guaranteed success.

  WillyInebriated -- you quoted me out of context.  I was seconding a commendable suggestion made by e2matrix,

QuoteE2matrix raises a very good idea, IMO -- a non-disclosure agreement that has a Limited Duration, so that the person agrees to stay quiet for a time, not forever.

  This is not a "childish" idea, but a commendable one.

@ AguariuZ

I've checked my math and found it correct, to recap:

53 MICROwatts for Bill's 10-module system (connecting the 6-modules with the 4-modules). 

See below along with previous posts -- I have also checked from Bill's comments that the 280mV rise
in the 4900 uF cap took one hour for "the two sets of modules together in series".

But please correct me if my calculations are wrong, because, Bill and other friends,  this is a very VERY tiny effect:

1.  53 uW for 10 modules means about 5.3 microwatts/module (average)

2.  To reach just ONE watt would thus require about 189,000 modules.

3.  Earlier there was an indication that one could get the materials needed to build a module at a hardware store
     for less than $20.  OK, let's say just $10.

4.  Combining 2 and 3, we find that for ONE stinkin' watt it will cost roughly $1,890,000 -- nearly 2 million bucks ! 

5.  Let's take roughly 1 kW to run a house (a low estimate I believe) -- the cost for the modules (with present data)
     would be $1,890,000,000 or nearly $2 Billion bucks.  That's billion with a "B".

     I can't afford it.

=========================================================================

Excellent Points AguariuZ.
It sure looks like your math is right on target.

.

Quote from: FatBird on August 18, 2011, 11:22:10 AM

5.  Let's take roughly 1 kW to run a house (a low estimate I believe) --

The figure often quoted is 2.5 Kw.

I spent about 12 hours in my shop adding my upgrades here are this morning results, I will be running tests all day long and over the weekend to see if these hold up

First I am using just 3 modules and a 60,000 uf cap.

Time         Start voltage        end voltage         Cap voltage

8:30 am     2.106 volts             2.256 volts          .562 volts
9:00 am      2.115                    2.256                  .563
9.15 am      2.136                     2.261                  .573
9.45am       2.199                    2.285                   .555
10 am         2.202                     2.290                  .540
10:15 am    2.195                    2.276                   .539
10:30am     2.213                    2.285                    .538

The ending voltage is the voltage after 15 minutes when I disconnect the cap. I short out the cap during that time to restart from  a 0.00 reading of the cap.
The test is now done for 60 seconds not 1 hr or 3600 sec.

The device has always showed a increase in voltage even after running the load.
using  E= 1/2 cv (squared) and dividing by 60 sec. wattage is now .145 watts 
Also these three are now running in series. Adding modules in parallel will increase the wattage.
It's a mystery.
Bill       

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 18, 2011, 10:52:39 AM
  WillyInebriated -- you quoted me out of context.  I was seconding a commendable suggestion made by e2matrix,
  This is not a "childish" idea, but a commendable one.

i didn't quote you out of context... nor did i suggest it was a childish idea. don't be asinine. i said bill has a plan, which he has already explained. stop behaving like an impetuous child by repeatedly pestering him to modify his plan to suit your impatience and repeatedly pestering him for further info. perhaps you should try some of that rigor without rancor you talk about... starting with rigor instead of this assumption followed by speculation, resulting in inevitable conjecture... sounds like a plan? what do you think?

HHMMMM

Bill
Looks like you just whacked a few hundred Million bucks [at least]  off the Cost per Watt?

Steve
"W" sounds Cranky? I guess he didn't catch any fish yesterday??
So Now he's fishin for Jouleseekers?

Don't do it Steve !!
Don't Bite!!




Chet 

Quote from: billmehess on August 18, 2011, 01:51:37 PM
I spent about 12 hours in my shop adding my upgrades here are this morning results, I will be running tests all day long and over the weekend to see if these hold up

First I am using just 3 modules and a 60,000 uf cap.

Time         Start voltage        end voltage         Cap voltage

8:30 am     2.106 volts             2.256 volts          .562 volts
9:00 am      2.115                    2.256                  .563
9.15 am      2.136                     2.261                  .573
9.45am       2.199                    2.285                   .555
10 am         2.202                     2.290                  .540
10:15 am    2.195                    2.276                   .539
10:30am     2.213                    2.285                    .538

The ending voltage is the voltage after 15 minutes when I disconnect the cap. I short out the cap during that time to restart from  a 0.00 reading of the cap.
The test is now done for 60 seconds not 1 hr or 3600 sec.

The device has always showed a increase in voltage even after running the load.
using  E= 1/2 cv (squared) and dividing by 60 sec. wattage is now .145 watts 
Also these three are now running in series. Adding modules in parallel will increase the wattage.
It's a mystery.
Bill     

Looking good :) How long does it take to fill a cap to one of the starting voltages? Say this one "10:30am 2.213"? If my math is right then its just about 1 hour?

Thanks!

-Altrez

Each test run is for 60 seconds when the run is finished disconnect the cap and short it to return its reading to 0.00 for the next test.
The device always goes up in voltage after the run. There is usually a 15 min pause between each run so the cap and short and the voltage stablize. The device is not charging anything at that time.
Darn good performance increase would'nt you say?
Bill

Quote from: billmehess on August 18, 2011, 05:00:13 PM
Each test run is for 60 seconds when the run is finished disconnect the cap and short it to return its reading to 0.00 for the next test.
The device always goes up in voltage after the run. There is usually a 15 min pause between each run so the cap and short and the voltage stablize. The device is not charging anything at that time.
Darn good performance increase would'nt you say?
Bill

Heck yeah! How long for cap to reach input voltage? Have you tested that?

-Altrez

You're right, Chet -- no need to respond to ad hominem attacks.  Now back to the science --
Thanks, Bill, for these measurements.  But I need to check your "decimal point" --

Quote from: billmehess on August 18, 2011, 01:51:37 PM
I spent about 12 hours in my shop adding my upgrades here are this morning results, I will be running tests all day long and over the weekend to see if these hold up

First I am using just 3 modules and a 60,000 uf cap.

Time         Start voltage        end voltage         Cap voltage

8:30 am     2.106 volts             2.256 volts          .562 volts
9:00 am      2.115                    2.256                  .563
9.15 am      2.136                     2.261                  .573
9.45am       2.199                    2.285                   .555
10 am         2.202                     2.290                  .540
10:15 am    2.195                    2.276                   .539
10:30am     2.213                    2.285                    .538

The ending voltage is the voltage after 15 minutes when I disconnect the cap. I short out the cap during that time to restart from  a 0.00 reading of the cap.
The test is now done for 60 seconds not 1 hr or 3600 sec.

The device has always showed a increase in voltage even after running the load.
using  E= 1/2 cv (squared) and dividing by 60 sec. wattage is now .145 watts 
Also these three are now running in series. Adding modules in parallel will increase the wattage.
It's a mystery.
Bill     

E = 1/2 C V**2, here's what I noted:  60,000 uf cap is the same as 60 milliFarads, 60mF,
so we have (taking V on the cap as 0.55V, a rough average):

P = E/t = [1/2 60mF (0.55V)**2]/60 s = 0.15mW = 0.15 MILLIwatts = 150 microwatts.

This is a considerable improvement from the other day, but still below one milliwatt. 

I hate to say this Bill but you seem to be stuck in a quantum mili-Loop.  In your thread on the Peltiers you were quoting around 3700 watts.  Actual as was pointed out by a number of sharp eyed members was 3.8 watts.  So you were getting roughly 1/1000th of what you first said.  Now you are saying .145 watts (or 145 milliwatts)  but I'm sorry I have to trust the PhD's calcs on this he's saying 150 microwatts or 0.150 milliwatts which is again 1/1000th of what you said.  The Quantum mili-Loop has you like the Matrix had Neo at the start.  ;)    Hopefully you'll escape the QmL. 

Sounds like someone else is a fisherman here.   Gabriel device time.   Just need that steel doughnut now.  This storyline is very familiar and worn out.

Quote from: e2matrix on August 18, 2011, 09:59:34 PM
I hate to say this Bill but you seem to be stuck in a quantum mili-Loop.  In your thread on the Peltiers you were quoting around 3700 watts.  Actual as was pointed out by a number of sharp eyed members was 3.8 watts.  So you were getting roughly 1/1000th of what you first said.  Now you are saying .145 watts (or 145 milliwatts)  but I'm sorry I have to trust the PhD's calcs on this he's saying 150 microwatts or 0.150 milliwatts which is again 1/1000th of what you said.  The Quantum mili-Loop has you like the Matrix had Neo at the start.  ;)    Hopefully you'll escape the QmL.

Exactly what I was thinking.  This business sounds very much like John Hutchison's open source crystal free energy battery system. Each battery delivers about 1 milliwatt and you need a thousand to get a measly watt.

Then why can I light a 2.1 volt 25 ma LED

current voltage is 2.525 volts under the load of the LED it drops and maintains at 2.362 volts
Its 9:50 pm in Oregon I will run it all night and check the voltage, which also has been going up all day.

Guys, I real appreciate all your help here, you are all the best!
Bill

Led data sheets show that the luminosity of an led varies with amp draw. You can light an led from under a milliamp up to it's maximum and the brightness will vary accordingly. So it all depends on how bright the led is. The graphs are usually a straight line indicating that the brightness is directly proportional to the amp draw. You can also light up an led from a crystal radio set.That is why you have been encouraged to light up an incandescent light. Or you could drive a small electric motor or fan. That's real power.
Good luck.

Ok lets run the numbers

joule seeker says the wattage is 150 mw or .000015
voltage is 2.5 volts

we know that

wattage= voltage x amperage

then
.000015=2.5v(amps)

voltage divided into watts gives us a amperage of .000006 or 6 microamps. Google says that a LED can use very low amperage, with its norm being 20-25 ma. And on the low side 1 ma to 2 ma.
What am I missing here?
But the LED is lighting looks like real world application to me. And this is with only 3 modules that have been under a load for 11 hours and after the load (60000 mf cap.) was removed continued to raise in value.
My hat is off to all your really bright people out there so please explain how or why this is happening
Bill

Bill:


LED's are funny things.  In my early experiments, it used to take like you said, 20-25 mA's to light up each one.  But, in working with the joule thief circuit, we found that they will also light on mostly volts and/or frequency.  This is how I was able to light over 400 leds from my earth battery and also from a single AA battery.  If you do the math (which I suck at) those 400 leds should not light up at all from my input.  But what we had going for us was high voltage/high frequency.  I hope this helps a little bit.

Great work man, keep it up.

Bill

Quote
joule seeker says the wattage is 150 mw or .000015

Did you mean milliwatts or microwatts? I am assuming milliwatts.

mw = milliwatts
µw = microwatts
1000 mw = 1 watt

so 150mw = 0.15w (not 0.000015 which is 15µw)

Power = current * voltage (P = IV)
A very important note here, voltage must be either DC or RMS.

0.15 = 2.5(I)
.: I = 0.15 / 2.5 = 0.06

I = 6mA (0.06A)

More than enough to drive an LED

CC

Edit:

sorry My Bad
I just read the original
it was 0.15mw(150µw) not 15mw

So your calculation is out by a factor of 10.

As Pirate88179 is alluding to. its not the fact you are using LED's its more about how you are driving them.

Bill,

LEDs can be lit very easily from almost any small voltage source. Can you please try to hook up a small motor or Joule Thief to your device? That would put this all to rest and show you have some real power!

Great work!

-Altrez

More info about my BiTT replication can be found from http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7833.255.

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 18, 2011, 05:37:42 PM
You're right, Chet -- no need to respond to ad hominem attacks.  Now back to the science --
Thanks, Bill, for these measurements.  But I need to check your "decimal point" --

E = 1/2 C V**2, here's what I noted:  60,000 uf cap is the same as 60 milliFarads, 60mF,
so we have (taking V on the cap as 0.55V, a rough average):

P = E/t = [1/2 60mF (0.55V)**2]/60 s = 0.15mW = 0.15 MILLIwatts = 150 microwatts.

This is a considerable improvement from the other day, but still below one milliwatt.

@JS

The problem is using  a 60000uf capacitor, you will not be able to bring it down to 0 volts. As soon as your short is open, voltage can rise on its own up to the levels mentioned.

@billmehess

Honestly, I think your call for a demo on the 31st is rather premature. Obviously you are not really ready as I see this is more in a scrambling mode to get something to work half decently. Getting all these people to come in and see a few microwatts (with three modules) in action is not exactly demo material. You will need to provide a fail proof demo showing all the factors in action and that will be difficult at that level in order to cancel all other outside interactions.

Again this is one of the reasons you need to just disclose your build like anyone else on these forums so guys can look into it with you and not through you. It's time to get back down to Earth level and deal with the reality.

@JS mentioned he is available so you have one of the best guys on your side as well as may others here and around the world. If there is something novel is your device, don't worry these guys will HELP YOU find it, explain it, show it and apply it at its maximum effort. But I think the time for playing demo games with the grand trumpets sounding, should subside and I think you will be best served as open source. Patenting a microwatt is not a smart move. I have also lit LEDs when consuming microwatts. Many have.

With all due respect, it's time to open up the basket. It's your call. Hope you make the right decisions. If you want some posterity give your device a name like the "BM Ether Cruncher" or whatever and your name will be in there at every turn.

wattsup

How interesting I rather thought the value in the exercise was to develop and show a device that had 0 input with a measureable and verifyable output, as well as using no consumables. How much clearer is it than that to for the very first time show a device that is truely overunity.
The ability to light a LED also would show real world application.
Guess I was wrong.
I am going to take your advice Wattup and cancel the demo. I will continue my work and really "beef up" the device to do what ever is necessary to "knock the socks off" in a demo.
This demo was going to cost me quite a bit of money so I will use that for future work.
As always I hold everyone at OU.com in the very highest regards.
Bill

Quote from: wattsup on August 19, 2011, 08:15:23 AM
@JS

The problem is using  a 60000uf capacitor, you will not be able to bring it down to 0 volts. As soon as your short is open, voltage can rise on its own up to the levels mentioned.

@billmehess

Honestly, I think your call for a demo on the 31st is rather premature. Obviously you are not really ready as I see this is more in a scrambling mode to get something to work half decently. Getting all these people to come in and see a few microwatts (with three modules) in action is not exactly demo material. You will need to provide a fail proof demo showing all the factors in action and that will be difficult at that level in order to cancel all other outside interactions.

Again this is one of the reasons you need to just disclose your build like anyone else on these forums so guys can look into it with you and not through you. It's time to get back down to Earth level and deal with the reality.

@JS mentioned he is available so you have one of the best guys on your side as well as may others here and around the world. If there is something novel is your device, don't worry these guys will HELP YOU find it, explain it, show it and apply it at its maximum effort. But I think the time for playing demo games with the grand trumpets sounding, should subside and I think you will be best served as open source. Patenting a microwatt is not a smart move. I have also lit LEDs when consuming microwatts. Many have.

With all due respect, it's time to open up the basket. It's your call. Hope you make the right decisions. If you want some posterity give your device a name like the "BM Ether Cruncher" or whatever and your name will be in there at every turn.

wattsup

Hi Wattsup
I agree with what you said, I did some tests some time ago using a washer a piece of paper and a magnet, I managed and produce millivolts without any input  :o unfortunately it was to unstable for any practical use,
I do hope that billmehess has found the answer to the world's energy needs,
And now that Bill has had second thoughts about the demo hopefully we'll get some more detail on his device.

Bill,

I would ask you to reconsider and at least show your work. If not, you are acting just like every other person who comes on here makes HUGE claims of having an overunity device and than makes up some reason not to prove it.

I can asure you that if you have such a device money will not be an issue.

Take Care,

-Altrez

Disclose to a select trusted few Bill, people that can help you develop your device further, with an NDA agreement if want, but don`t throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

Quote from: billmehess on August 19, 2011, 10:26:54 AM
This demo was going to cost me quite a bit of money so I will use that for future work.
Bill

LMAO...the demo in your garage was going to cost you money?

Perhaps you have come to the realization the greatest cost was going to be to your pride now that you have well and truly shown you know nothing of the behaviour of capacitors and cannot event stoke spark in a led.

This always was a junk claim as have been Bills previous claims.  Go back to selling Chinese violins.

I want to thank Bill for what he is trying to do, and tell him to ignore the impolite donkies. I think that those with the math are probably not to be ignored completely, but with that I would suggest that Bill does not deserve to be put down in a most discusting way as has been expressed here by a few. You are smart...we get it. What about a little politeness here. I live this stuff and want to here & see everything that comes down the pike. To me all this stuff is just plain fun. Bill has a plane lets see how it works out for him.
I do along with Bill, recognize that he may have more research to do. But I admire his enthusiasm.
Lets try to help and make suggestions with out the rancor that is shown by some.

Bill, go back to the black board and give it heck. Most of us are pulling for you.
Remember, Bill    ^{"Illegitimi non carborundum"}

Dougtio

Great! just what we need, another sucker being eaten alive.

what I live by: "Illegitimi non carborundum"  ;D

This forum is all about Open Source, E Goose has said "I got it"
But I'm not tellin!
Bitter is as bitter does!

Bill I really Don't get what Your're doing here ,seems like you took half of Watts up"s advice .
How about the  "Open Source and We'll help you get it done part"??

Thats not working for you Huh??

If you want to change the world ,you can't do it alone.
   There is a very high ratio of "good guys" here,much more so than the general population,men that come here for no other purpose than to leave this world a better place.

For the children ,the suffering ,and a better Planet...........
I strongly feel you are one of these men.

You want to figure this out ?
Take the rest Of Watts Up's advice!

Time ...........a luxury we shouldn't take for granted!

Chet

Quote from: ramset on August 20, 2011, 02:37:17 AM
Bill I really Don't get what Your're doing here ,seems like you took half of Watts up"s advice .
How about the  "Open Source and We'll help you get it done part"??

Thats not working for you Huh??

In Bills defence, when you have an idea for an invention, It's your baby. Its a very personal thing. Some people will happily throw their ideas to the wind, in my experience it usually means the idea is incomplete. They think its a great idea but want others to develop it. But when the idea is your own and you want to take it to the finish line, It's very hard to let go of.

I know I can't.

The things I believe will work, I want to finish, those ideas that didn't work, well I am glad I kept them to myself.

CC

Quote from: billmehess on August 19, 2011, 10:26:54 AM
How interesting I rather thought the value in the exercise was to develop and show a device that had 0 input with a measureable and verifyable output, as well as using no consumables. How much clearer is it than that to for the very first time show a device that is truely overunity.
The ability to light a LED also would show real world application.
Guess I was wrong.
I am going to take your advice Wattup and cancel the demo. I will continue my work and really "beef up" the device to do what ever is necessary to "knock the socks off" in a demo.
This demo was going to cost me quite a bit of money so I will use that for future work.
As always I hold everyone at OU.com in the very highest regards.
Bill

well.. i guess the 100% figure stays (read my other posts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo

Quote from: ResinRat2 on August 20, 2011, 10:30:20 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo

haha... indeed ;)

  Bill --

  I hope you can understand that we seek a device that:

1.  has been replicated and tested and verified by independent researchers

2.  produces at least ONE watt of net output power

These are very basic criteria, which are not met by your claimed device -- are they?

Note that these are also conditions for the OU prize offered here by this forum, and for the OUResearch prize (which requires at least 10 watts of net output power IIRC).  Neither of these prizes has yet been awarded, so don't feel too bad ;)   

(Are there any other prizes out there for a truly OU device? I'm sure this would be of interest to all if so -- and what are the criteria?)

Bill,  PM sent.  There are people here with many different agendas.  Fortunately most want to help but some want only to and blockade and crush the hopes of others.  It seems you have a device with no apparent input power (unseen, unknown or alternate) and if you understand what that is and have output power then it is certainly of interest here.  It may be very low power but until we know what it is and whether it can be developed into something useful don't give up just based on the thoughts of a few.  If you choose to open source it there is a good chance it could be determined more quickly how real world useful it is but if not don't give up working on it yourself.  I wish you all the luck in your pursuits.

JS,  I can't find it at the moment but someone in the past was offering 1 million dollars for some type of PM device or free energy device.  Also this person is offering $20,000,000 which could certainly be won if someone has an affordable free energy device that can power a home:  http://www.valleyzen.com/2009/02/12/tom-siebel-offers-20-million-dollar-prize/

That one is a little different in that it calls for a home to be built that will have zero energy use at the end of a year and the home must not cost any more to build than a traditional home. 

   I totally concur with e2m here:

Quote from: e2matrix on August 20, 2011, 02:07:46 PM
Bill,  [snip] It may be very low power but until we know what it is and whether it can be developed into something useful don't give up just based on the thoughts of a few. If you choose to open source it there is a good chance it could be determined more quickly how real world useful it is but if not don't give up working on it yourself.  I wish you all the luck in your pursuits.

And thanks e2m for the note on the $20megabuck prize.  Tom Seibel would be surprised by an OU -powered house, I'm sure of that!  ;)

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 20, 2011, 02:29:35 PM
And thanks e2m for the note on the $20megabuck prize.  Tom Seibel would be surprised by an OU -powered house, I'm sure of that!  ;)

anyone have Tom's phone number?....

   link-->http://www.ecofriend.com/entry/ilek-unveils-self-sustaining-house-that-can-also-charge-your-ev/ (http://www.ecofriend.com/entry/ilek-unveils-self-sustaining-house-that-can-also-charge-your-ev/)

Very cool site Nul.   ;]
Lots of great ideas.

Thanks

Mags

Quote from: nul-points on August 20, 2011, 06:05:12 PM
anyone have Tom's phone number?....

   link-->http://www.ecofriend.com/entry/ilek-unveils-self-sustaining-house-that-can-also-charge-your-ev/ (http://www.ecofriend.com/entry/ilek-unveils-self-sustaining-house-that-can-also-charge-your-ev/)

Cool house! But I doubt it costs anywhere near the price of a normal home.

Everybody relax I am going to have the demo it is not going to be held in my basement I am renting space in the Expo Center in Portland. I will have a 1250 sq. ft room capable of holding 125 people.
The Expo Center is right off of Hwy 5 right over the Wash. boarder so it will be very easy to get to.
OMSI was a nightmare for parking and congestion.
I want to push the demo back to mid Sept, so that I can add more components to the device. You  only have one chance to make a good impression.
To be perfectly honest Wattsup did me a favor because if the feeling was what I had done was not sufficient then I needed to do more.
I have made numerous impovements in the device over the past few days. And that will continue.

I have never claimed amy thing more than no input with a positive output and no consumables.
It will not run a house or move your car.

There was an interesting article on the internet this morning about 2 guys in some place called Kitty Hawk they actual flew what they call and aero-plane (I think that the name) it flew I believe around 10 feet high and about 120 feet. I really do not see much value here it seems way to limited, but who knows maybe they OPENED UP A DOOR.I guess will just have to be patient and wait and see.

And no jouleseeker it will not produce 1 watt yet. If this is the standard in which all these devices are going to be judged by then I guess I come up short. Frankly after 3 years on the site this is the first time I have heard of that. I know that this is one of the requirements for the OU prize and maybe that is what you meant

Quote from: billmehess on August 20, 2011, 08:08:24 PM
Everybody relax I am going to have the demo it is not going to be held in my basement I am renting space in the Expo Center in Portland. I will have a 1250 sq. ft room capable of holding 125 people.
The Expo Center is right off of Hwy 5 right over the Wash. boarder so it will be very easiy to get to.
OMSI was a nightmare for parking and congestion.
I want to push the demo back to mid Sept, so that I can add more components to the device. You  only have one chance to make a good impression.
To be perfectly honest Wattsup did me a favor because if the feeling was what I had done was not sufficient then I needed to do more.
I have made numerous impovements in the device over the past few days. And that will continue.

I have never claimed amy thing more than no input with a positive output and no consumables.
It will not run a house or move your car.

There was an interesting article on the internet this morning about 2 guys in some place called Kitty Hawk they actual flew what they call and aero-plane (I think that the name) it flew I believe around 10 feet high and about 120 feet. I really don's see much value here it seems way to limited, but who knows maybe they OPENED UP A DOOR.I guess will just have to be patient and wait and see.

Good Luck Bill :)

-Altrez

GOOD LUCK BILL, I will be there for sure. ;D
Doug

   Great, that gets me past the crunch this month and into the flats of next. A day off will be easy then.

thay

Bill
Thank you,
As you know we have Groups of folks here working with a few devices that I feel are quite dangerous to experiment with,and for that reason I don't even attempt it,super High voltage AC DC all manner of Coils and capacitors.

Very scary stuff!

I have often wondered if these high voltage fields "pumped" around the experimenters can have adverse effects on them.
  It is very strange to me how many men I have seen "behind the scenes"
Experimenting on TPU's or whatever.
And they have Heart Issues??
I often Wonder about Otto??

Also Look at ist??[innovationstation] being serious here]

The point is Those devices have issues that yours will not!!
For the experimenter as well as Acceptance into society.

Your small output device is just what is needed around here.
Passive in nature ,But monstrous in potential!

For the sake of our experimenters as well as the future of our planet
I hope you maintain your resolve !!

God Speed Bill Mehess...............

Chetkremens@gmail.com

QuoteAlso Look at ist??[innovationstation] being serious here]

That is thought provoking Ramset.
Working with intense fields on a regular basis should always be a concern.

Quote from: ramset on August 21, 2011, 09:24:47 AM
Bill
Thank you,
As you know we have Groups of folks here working with a few devices that I feel are quite dangerous to experiment with,and for that reason I don't even attempt it,super High voltage AC DC all manner of Coils and capacitors.

Very scary stuff!

I have often wondered if these high voltage fields "pumped" around the experimenters can have adverse effects on them.
  It is very strange to me how many men I have seen "behind the scenes"
Experimenting on TPU's or whatever.
And they have Heart Issues??
I often Wonder about Otto??

Also Look at ist??[innovationstation] being serious here]

The point is Those devices have issues that yours will not!!
For the experimenter as well as Acceptance into society.

Your small output device is just what is needed around here.
Passive in nature ,But monstrous in potential!

For the sake of our experimenters as well as the future of our planet
I hope you maintain your resolve !!

God Speed Bill Mehess...............

Chetkremens@gmail.com

Wow I never really consider all that. This is exectly what we need a device that everyone can safley work on. Very intresting read Ramset.

Bill when you decide to release the parts list, I will be more then happy to make a donation to help keep things moving.

-Altrez

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 18, 2011, 05:37:42 PM
You're right, Chet -- no need to respond to ad hominem attacks.  Now back to the science --

don't be asinine professor... i would expect a man of your "qualifications" to know what ad hominem is, you obviously don't... ::) it wasn't ad hominem. i didn't "attack the man". nor is what you are doing "science". you are assuming, speculating and ending with conjecture. you have no schematic, you have no parts list, all you have is assumption, speculation and some voltages... what you are doing is not science by any stretch of the imagination and it most certainly isn't 'rigor' either...

now once again... how about you try out that "rigor without rancor" you talk so much about... starting with rigor. sound like a plan? or are you suggesting that the assumption, speculation and the inevitable conjecture you have been engaging in is rigor?  ::)

if you still think it was ad hominem, then back up your claim... and try not to misrepresent my words as pathetically as you did last time. ::) demonstrate (with quotes) where i ignored your salient points and 'attacked the man'. refusal to do so will be accepted as a tacit admission that you cannot.

some definitions for the ignorant:
ad hominem - gratuitous verbal abuse or "name-calling" itself is not an ad hominem or a logical fallacy. in order to become a fallacy, the insult would need to be given as a reason for believing some conclusion. an example would be; "JS is idiotically ignorant [of science], so why should we listen to him now?"

rigor - strict precision : exactness <logical rigor>
         scrupulous or inflexible accuracy or adherence: the logical rigor of mathematics.

@BM

Great, so all is well in Camelot.

Just know that the open source is always here should you need it. Also, if you want to run by your demo procedure before the day, and you need someone to consider possible objections you will get during the demo, I am available by PM. Also, I recommend you communicate with @JouleSeeker via PM should you require some precise technical assistance in terms of how to produce a convincing measurement procedure.  While you are running your circuit, maybe take a small coil that is connected to a volt meter and move it over and around the device to see if it gives you any readings. Try the same thing on known field producing devices you may have lying around so you have a comparable visible method of measuring fields around the device.

Guys will want to bring their own ammeters, volt meters and even magnetometers so you need to know of any stray fields in advance. Maybe try the device with your cell phone beside it to see if it reacts with ore output, then make sure there are no cell phones in the room.

But again, for the record, I see all this fanfare as superfluous and totally unnecessary delay and just say that simply disclosing open source is all you really need to do. The principle of operation is what matters so weather you disclose now at microwatts or in a month at 1/2 a watt, nothing will change in that regard or its main importance, so in the real frame of things, any delay is a major waste of time. But I have to concede that men will want to play their games regardless of the logic and can only hope for a decent outcome. "We shall see", said the blind man.

@ramset

I think of @otto everyday. Sometimes I can even feel stomach cramps when pulsing certain devices. All have to be very attentive to the signals their bodies are receiving. But weather you know it or not, your body is already being bombarded by so many signals just sitting in your living room. That radio clock beside your bed is just nefarious and everything else in your home just shoots out fields every second. I am now even considering turning off the electrical breakers for bedrooms before bedtime so at least during our sleep we can be in an almost  field free environment. Even the fields from the 60hz cycling in the electrical wiring of the home is bad even if nothing is plugged into a wall socket.

But guys working with more concentrated and aggressive field types have to know to keep a close watch. Sudden headaches, tingling, prickling, stomach growls are all signs of an excess of some kind. Most have already experienced such physical effects.

wattsup

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on August 21, 2011, 01:19:16 PM
don't be asinine professor...
[...]
demonstrate (with quotes) where i ignored your salient points and 'attacked the man'. refusal to do so will be accepted as a tacit admission that you cannot.
[...]

i disagree - silence can also be interpreted as an eloquent response:  refusing to be drawn into pointless argument

Quote from: nul-points on August 21, 2011, 03:43:37 PM
i disagree - silence can also be interpreted as an eloquent response:  refusing to be drawn into pointless argument

great, grand, wonderful... perhaps you can demonstrate how it was ad hominem then? or is that more of your "science"? to make a false claim and refuse/fail to back it up when challenged...  the only thing that was "pointless" was to erroneously claim ad hominem in a logically fallacious attempt to disregard the salient points of my post... after his gross misrepresentation of my previous post... ::)

Quote from: billmehess on August 20, 2011, 08:08:24 PM
And no jouleseeker it will not produce 1 watt yet. If this is the standard in which all these devices are going to be judged by then I guess I come up short. Frankly after 3 years on the site this is the first time I have heard of that. I know that this is one of the requirements for the OU prize and maybe that is what you meant

FFS... It doesn't matter if it produces 1 watt at all.

If you have invented/discovered something that produces any amount of energy from absolutely no consumable source and that energy cannot be attributed to any kind of external environmental facor then it doesn't matter.

I'm a coder by trade, science thus far presents a simple, self-proclaimed, indisputable equation of in>=out and the operators in use there are a stretch, at best, because of losses... If you've come up with an indisputable out>in then who cares about the amount of excess ?

If it's a scalable solution, it's out>in and and people aren't interested in seeing that and trying to figure out why it's happening then I cannot for the life of me figure out why... If you were in my country (UK) I would come and try and poke holes in your invention/discovery if I could if you could just (WTF?) demonstrate the simple principle of out>in.

Seriously, if you're talking verifiable out>in it is a world breaker.

AHHHH "W"[Wilby}
The fisher of Men......................

Musta been another lousy day of fishin out on the boat?

Chet

@RAMSET:
I used to quietly observe the work of IST back when he was making videos of a self running motor he claimed was legitimate; however, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now if it was.

Since IST’s self running motor claim, I haven’t continued to follow his work.  Is there something that has happened to IST that is possibly the result of exposure to high voltage fields (or over-exposure)? 

Chess

Quote from: Mr. M on August 21, 2011, 07:11:30 PM
FFS... It doesn't matter if it produces 1 watt at all.

If you have invented/discovered something that produces any amount of energy from absolutely no consumable source and that energy cannot be attributed to any kind of external environmental facor then it doesn't matter.

I'm a coder by trade, science thus far presents a simple, self-proclaimed, indisputable equation of in>=out and the operators in use there are a stretch, at best, because of losses... If you've come up with an indisputable out>in then who cares about the amount of excess ?

If it's a scalable solution, it's out>in and and people aren't interested in seeing that and trying to figure out why it's happening then I cannot for the life of me figure out why... If you were in my country (UK) I would come and try and poke holes in your invention/discovery if I could if you could just (WTF?) demonstrate the simple principle of out>in.

Seriously, if you're talking verifiable out>in it is a world breaker.

Well that would be true as long as the cost (eventual cost in production mode) to produce useful power is = or < the cost of other clean energy sources.  However if it costs 20 times as much to get the same power as solar or wind than it becomes merely an interesting novelty or at best a subject for further study to see if it could become cost effective.  I did like Bill's analogy of the Wright brothers first flight.  It obviously started small but over the course of some years became huge.  We can hope for this with Bill's device too. 

Quote from: e2matrix on August 22, 2011, 12:38:25 AM
Well that would be true as long as the cost (eventual cost in production mode) to produce useful power is = or < the cost of other clean energy sources.  However if it costs 20 times as much to get the same power as solar or wind than it becomes merely an interesting novelty or at best a subject for further study to see if it could become cost effective.  I did like Bill's analogy of the Wright brothers first flight.  It obviously started small but over the course of some years became huge.  We can hope for this with Bill's device too.

Well, I see your point about scalability and production costs but I think it's the underlying principle that's the world breaker, not the production of useful power.

Right now the scientific community has a mindset of "You can't get more out than you put in, that's the law, you can't prove otherwise and if you try I'll just mock you until you stop wasting everyone's time." but if that's not the case in this instance then this mindset has no alternative but to change to "It's possible to get more out than you put in."

It doesn't matter if you can power a house, a LED or simply show measurable output because it's coming from nothing and, right now, science on the whole says that cannot happen, ever... It validates this site and it also validates every attempt in history to achieve what science claims, somewhat dogmatically, to be impossible. 

That, to me at least, is the world breaker!

Chess
Regarding ist ,It is my opinion that he was making himself a little Crazy
by Electro shock ............

Thats all just my Opinion,However pulsing a microwave transformer thru an antennae [coil]on a regular basis in close proximity to your brain ??

My point is ,working with an itty bitty "event" that you understand
and can scale up Is a million times better than firing up Giggawatt
Coils just to see what "might" happen!

Chet

What is your problem, WilbyInebriated? you wrote:

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on August 21, 2011, 01:19:16 PM
you have no schematic, you have no parts list, all you have is assumption, speculation and some voltages... what you are doing is not science by any stretch of the imagination and it most certainly isn't 'rigor' either...

[snip]

Yet, you recently referred (see attached) to a thread I started months ago on the sj1 circuit, where indeed I present my schematic diagrams and even parts specifications.  And photos of the device and results.  Is this not science?  what are you talking about?

This is a thread for discussing Bill's (largely undefined) device and certainly not for attacking a particular person, which I referred to as "ad hominem [" to the man"] attacks".   Interesting in the attached, you ask TheSchuss

Quote"which specific comment of mine did you think was 'snide' and/or offensive?"

Is this your modus, to go around making offensive remarks and then when there is a rejoinder, to demand "which specific comment of mine did you think was 'snide' and/or offensive?"  Not a very interesting or productive game, IMO.  I won't join you in that game.
(Why not start over, friend, and stick with more scientific issues than what "ad hominem attacks" means, and demanding quotes of your specific comments?)

    Bill, your previous youtube vids were of home-made cells or batteries, like your water+lemon-juice cell, with copper and zinc (galvanized) that I cited/URL earlier.

    We still don't know what you're going to announce in mid-Sept, but if indeed it is another cell with dissimilar metals (without a liquid electrolyte), I would hope that you would give credit to those researchers who have done similar work.  Here's just one example, by Lidmotor -- a two-penny cell without a liquid electrolyte.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTdvUUAQ0to&feature=uploademail

Best wishes,
Steve

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 22, 2011, 04:01:44 PM
What is your problem, WilbyInebriated? you wrote:

Yet, you recently referred (see attached) to a thread I started months ago on the sj1 circuit, where indeed I present my schematic diagrams and even parts specifications.  And photos of the device and results.  Is this not science?  what are you talking about?

making assumptions, speculation and the inevitable conjecture about bill's device when you have no schematic, no parts list, just some times and voltages is not science nor what i wold call 'rigor'. what are you talking about?

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 22, 2011, 04:01:44 PM
This is a thread for discussing Bill's (largely undefined) device and certainly not for attacking a particular person, which I referred to as "ad hominem [" to the man"] attacks".   Interesting in the attached, you ask TheSchuss
Is this your modus, to go around making offensive remarks and then when there is a rejoinder, to demand "which specific comment of mine did you think was 'snide' and/or offensive?"  Not a very interesting or productive game, IMO.  I won't join you in that game.
(Why not start over, friend, and stick with more scientific issues than what "ad hominem attacks" means, and demanding quotes of your specific comments?)

this was a thread where bill announced his intentions to demo a device at the end of august. it was then turned into an attempt to get him to modify his plan to suit the various agendas of others. all i have been doing is asking that a little patience, respect and professionalism (by waiting until the demo and not acting like an impetuous child by constantly hounding him for more info or to change his plan, etc. ad infintum, ad nauseam) be shown. what my 'modus' may or may not be is a logical fallacy (attacking the man) and thus, irrelevant. speaking of modus... try and address the salient points of my post instead of this constant misrepresentation and redirection.

now once again... how about you try out that "rigor without rancor" you talk so much about... starting with rigor. which would be to behave professionally and wait until the 31st. sound like a plan? or are you suggesting that the assumption, speculation and the inevitable conjecture you have been engaging in is rigor?  ::)

    I don't think I've been behaving like an "impetuous child", WilbyInebriated and I find your insinuation offensive.      As I wrote to Bill, one can learn a lot from the output power, and he graciously made measurements on that.

You wrote:

Quotewait until the 31st. sound like a plan?

Aug. 31st would be fine-- but if you will read the thread, that date has been delayed.

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 22, 2011, 07:10:07 PM
    I don't think I've been behaving like an "impetuous child", WilbyInebriated and I find your insinuation offensive.      As I wrote to Bill, one can learn a lot from the output power, and he graciously made measurements on that.

of course you don't... impetuous people/children usually don't. ::) it wasn't an insinuation and i find your behavior offensive... and what then can you tell me from these voltage measurements? can you provide me a parts list? can you provide me a schematic? no, you cannot. all you can provide are assumptions, speculations and conjecture... ::) why not wait until the demo? are you obsessed?

Quote from: JouleSeeker on August 22, 2011, 07:10:07 PM
You wrote:
Aug. 31st would be fine-- but if you will read the thread, that date has been delayed.

whatever ::) amended to "whatever date bill sets"  happy now? and do you think you can wait patiently until then? ::)

Wow, Some of you really screwed this one up. He was going to have a demo on the 31st. We would have gotten all the info to replicate, improve, and test his idea. But nooooooooooooo, some of you are so scared, impatient, and just plain dumb imo. You had to make him feel as you do about an OU device coming out. That he must be wrong until you get your way. Thanks, I don't care how much power it was putting out. I cared about the process and you fella's (not all of ya) took that from me and the rest of us that were waiting. Oh well,,,,,Guess there are always bullies no matter what age we are in. Peace.

I never bullied Bill.... I had two main points
1: In the entire history of human kind, not once has an over unity device gone fully opened source
and
2: I would like Bill to be the first


If you look closer at the other so called "bullies" you will find there message isn't as negative as you painted it....

When you have 100% failure rate, history is hard to ignore.... sure we can be optimistic, but due to such an incredible failure rate, it has to be careful optimism

Bill has a good thing going on here, lets not spoil it by wasting energy on ranting each other.

In demo you dont have to show a perfect product but Bill would do a big a favour if he could tell people beforehand what to expect. For example, device outputs x watts using material that costs less than x dollars per watt and it requires about x cubic centimeters of space/watt.

If device is scalable without limit and still has room for development then it can only get better and after disclosure others can help. A good comparing point is solar power, 1.5 dollars / watt and difficult to install. Bills device runs 24/7/365 where as solar power does not and it could possibly be placed in cellar out of sight and mind. In my opinion Bill's device may therefore cost more and still be competitive to solar.

My concern is this, people come in with high expectations and could get disappointed. Then they might stop looking into it and possibly that one guy who could make a potential difference is lost at this point. Would be a pitty for everybody.

Hi Bill

Was looking forward to the 31st August demo and maybe having a go at replicating your discovery.
Will wait till September time though, do it at your own pace mate.

Even if you can run a couple of LED's and there is no input needed and it lasts for a long, long, LONG! time, then that is a breakthrough.

Been meaning to get round to making one of John Hutchinsons little cells since he open sourced it a couple of months ago, just to have a LED sat there lit up and see how many years it lasts !!

Look forward to seeing this mystery being revealed and well done mate.

Cheers

Sean.

Quote from: friendenergy on August 22, 2011, 10:48:33 PM
Wow, Some of you really screwed this one up. He was going to have a demo on the 31st. We would have gotten all the info to replicate, improve, and test his idea. But nooooooooooooo, some of you are so scared, impatient, and just plain dumb imo. You had to make him feel as you do about an OU device coming out. That he must be wrong until you get your way. Thanks, I don't care how much power it was putting out. I cared about the process and you fella's (not all of ya) took that from me and the rest of us that were waiting. Oh well,,,,,Guess there are always bullies no matter what age we are in. Peace.

Oh grow up man. Disclosing to open source has always been the way. All other ways have always failed. Making a demo with microwatts would have just caused most all to find so many other reasons for the effects. If Bill wants to do a demo, then for him to up the ante is only a good thing for all and will create much less concern about transmitted fields, hidden batteries, trick capacitors, etc., etc. A demo is like a potable water analysis. The result is either good or bad. There is no in between. If it is bad, it will create so much commotion that we will never hear about this anymore because the guy will be so pissed off at everyone for not believing him. A good demo will cover the device, how it works, easy access to all the components for inspection, easy visible and instrument analysis, etc. This will neutralize all objections and put the device in the forefront where it belongs. So if you want to do a public demo, the real public service is in doing it right the first time. We have seen too many fail and have at least some foresight to anticipate problems. Now how stupid is that?

Of course the easy way is to simply disclose since yes, output does not matter when there is 0 input. The principle is what counts. But that is not in the cards so after that, the next best thing is to make sure the demo goes well. For that, I prefer to wait as long as it takes since the former (open source now) will not happen. You take the good with the bad and try to make the best of it. I think Bills solution was a good mix of both. Microwatts usually means a microvolt times a microamp. In the micro range, this can be accounted for in endless ways so again, upping the ante is a good move. Leave no room for guessing, or the least room possible.

wattsup

Quote from: CLaNZeR on August 23, 2011, 07:23:18 AM
Hi Bill

Was looking forward to the 31st August demo and maybe having a go at replicating your discovery.
Will wait till September time though, do it at your own pace mate.

Even if you can run a couple of LED's and there is no input needed and it lasts for a long, long, LONG! time, then that is a breakthrough.

Been meaning to get round to making one of John Hutchinsons little cells since he open sourced it a couple of months ago, just to have a LED sat there lit up and see how many years it lasts !!

Look forward to seeing this mystery being revealed and well done mate.

Cheers

Sean.

Sean,  that's good news.  I didn't know John H. had finally open sourced his cells.  Can you point to someplace that has this info? 

I agree with wattsup on this.  I think most are acting out of fear here.  Fear that Bill won't get this done right or that he will be stopped.  Fear that others will delay this by putting doubts out there.  The source of all anger is Fear (False Evidence Appearing Real F.E.A.R.)  so can we all get a handle on that and realize that most everyone wants this to move forward and that others are simply trying to help.  Out of fear some are simply misinterpreting help as hindrance. 

Wattsup
I believe you are a veteran of Field demonsrations?
I think it was you Who went and saw Daniel Palmero [probably slaughtered the last name]
The Autistic fellow with The "Touch" up in Canada
Makes Cell phones work from Drawings and such??

You are the "Super Sleuth"!

Bill is doing very well taking your advice!!

@EMatrix
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=972.msg298578#new

A hot Topic with some very cool OU engineers Playing with the "Hutches"
Work,Like Bill said The early days of flight..............

Chet

Quote from: wattsup on August 23, 2011, 09:55:30 AM
...
If it is bad, it will create so much commotion that we will never hear about this anymore because the guy will be so pissed off at everyone for not believing him.
...
wattsup

Well, it does not verify in practice…
Look at Thomas and his plain BS about pyramid power; he’s already at the third (or more?) attempt and people still buy at him. Look at Steorn too. But look no further than current case: several years ago Bill himself was announcing and widely advertising (through a dedicated web site?) a ‘very solid OU device’ based on mechanical clocks & magnets if I recall it correctly.
Please don’t get me wrong, I do not intend to discourage present efforts but just to make a point based on facts that are simply puzzling to me.

Imho such a story may be kept alive and re-launched on the market forever; what’s worst is there are good chances it becomes a(nother) legend…

Cheers,
Tinu

Quote from: e2matrix on August 23, 2011, 10:34:41 AM
Sean,  that's good news.  I didn't know John H. had finally open sourced his cells.  Can you point to someplace that has this info? 

Hi e2

Here is direct link to Johns video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xf_JBnDOBw&feature=related

It a bit whacky, but bear with it, till it gets to the cell making bit.

Sorry for off topic post as well.

Cheers

Sean.

Quote from: tinu on August 23, 2011, 10:52:27 AM[...] plain BS [...]

Perhaps good to have people identify themselves with strong opinions...

Why do I somehow imagine the T.Henry Moray Radiant energy device on a much simpler and safer version with this. haha

Whatever this is, Looking forward. =]

Hi Wattsup
I agree with what you said (Reply 185), I did some tests some time ago using a washer a piece of paper and a magnet, I managed to produce millivolts without any input  :o unfortunately it was to unstable for any practical use,I am of course presuming that Bills device is very similar.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8203.msg205952#msg205952

Bill I hope You have discovered a solution to the world's energy needs, I believed I had come up a solution many years ago, what a feeling it was, butterflies in the stomach and what to do next, needless to say my theory didn't work out when put in to practice.

I do think you should open source sooner than later,especially considering how many people here will help you develop your device.

However it works I wish you all the best.

cat

Everyone patiently waiting for Bill? I am. Bill, any new information as to when and where for the live demo? Still the same time and place already mentioned?
Good luck,
Doug

Bill,

Is the time an date still correct for the release on Wednesday? You haven't posted so I was unsure if something had changed.

-Altrez

Hi Bill,
I will  monitor this thread closely to watch for a verification of the time and date for the demo. I have called you a few times with no answer. I live in Jefferson, OR just South of Salem. I left my phone # on your voice mail.
There are others who want to know also. Hope to read or hear something soon. We all hope you worked through any bugs that might have shone up.
Thanks,
Doug

Time Will Tell...

http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D_7kSjZ9LoIs

Very Best

OK, what is going on? Blocked in my country?? Blocked in my country????

Doug

I have been out of town for the past four days on business relating to the device. As I stated before I left the demo has been cancelled for Aug. 31. I will reschedule soon. I have brought in 2 other people to assist me in scaling up to at least 1 watt. Wattsup was right when he said that my low power output was to small. At 1 watt scaling to 10 to 100 watts becomes attainable.
My phone and email have to say the least been extremely active. One of the more interesting emails was from a technology teacher for students of the Dept. of Defence and US Military. Interesting.
I am very methodical in the development of my work and it is absolutely imperative to me to "get it right".
As things progress I will attempt to keep you informed. The device is morphing as its development progresses/
Bill

Quote from: billmehess on August 30, 2011, 03:29:52 PM

...
The device is morphing as its development progresses.
...

This device "morphing" is what I don't like. If there is no absolute
goal for making the design public, it never becomes public. Also
usually the design is initially at it's simplest and easiest to understand.

Before you know it, it will only be implemented by incredible
secret processes in incredible secret laboratories...just before
it disappears entirely, that is.

These people are the enemy of the average public good.
I believe our military should have better stuff, and that they
should pay to have it implemented, but they should leave
civilian R&D alone. We need progress too.

I still think inventor's problems are the inventors themselves.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Quote from: mscoffman on August 31, 2011, 01:13:25 PM
This device "morphing" is what I don't like. If there is no absolute
goal for making the design public, it never becomes public. Also
usually the design is initially at it's simplest and easiest to understand.

Before you know it, it will only be implemented by incredible
secret processes in incredible secret laboratories...just before
it disappears entirely, that is.

These people are the enemy of the average public good.
I believe our military should have better stuff, and that they
should pay to have it implemented, but they should leave
civilian R&D alone. We need progress too.

I still think inventor's problems are the inventors themselves.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Incorrect on all accounts

Are the other people those that have offered help on this forum Bill?

@Loner,

I guess that I might see what you mean.
So, it sounds like you kinda gave up your ego...

Very Best

Hey, Loner,

I'm just a froggy Frenchman.
BTW? and You? US? UK? else? Not Said?

I can catch most of your post but, please recognize that your English (= thinking)
is very subtile and creative!

I sometimes translate English into French but I must confess that it is not so easy
to decipher some of your statements.

I do not see any nonsense and arrogance in your post.

I'm rather discreet. So perhaps could we exchange more via private emails.

Very Best

Hi Bill,
I hope you are moving forward with your demo. Everyone waiting...need any help? There are some smart guys here that can help if you need it. I will keep monitoring this site.
Good luck,
Doug

All I can see here is words, words, words. No solid facts. Did I miss something?

Vidar

yeah, you missed the part about waiting until bill was ready for his demo...

Hi OU dot com crowd,

According to Wikipedia, "Vidar", the son of Odin, is associated with vengeance.
According to my perception "Vidar" is indeed not so kind (to say the least).

"Vidar" lets me also think of "Viper".
What kinda vengeance are your looking for, my dear Vidar?
Why do you keep on spitting your venom at anybody who claims non conventional results?

More: your appellation "Low-Q" is, IMHO, a false modesty.
It lets deceptively think about "Low-QI".
See, people, I'm just considering myself as a "Low-ability" guy.
So, my posts should not be harmful.
Meanwhile, the poison is thrown.

Actually, you really perceive yourself as a high IQ (or else) gifted person.
Yes, you should be. Decidedly, IMHO, you are another perfidious individual.

Now:  I'm not a Bill Mehess proponent.
I just respect this guy and wait for more.
To be honest, I do not expect any obvious breakthrough.
But, who knows?

Very Best

Quote from: NerzhDishual on September 06, 2011, 10:54:08 PM
Hi OU dot com crowd,

According to Wikipedia, "Vidar", the son of Odin, is associated with vengeance.
According to my perception "Vidar" is indeed not so kind (to say the least).

"Vidar" lets me also think of "Viper".
What kinda vengeance are your looking for, my dear Vidar?
Why do you keep on spitting your venom at anybody who claims non conventional results?

More: your appellation "Low-Q" is, IMHO, a false modesty.
It lets deceptively think about "Low-QI".
See, people, I'm just considering myself as a "Low-ability" guy.
So, my posts should not be harmful.
Meanwhile, the poison is thrown.

Actually, you really perceive yourself as a high IQ (or else) gifted person.
Yes, you should be. Decidedly, IMHO, you are another perfidious individual.

Now:  I'm not a Bill Mehess proponent.
I just respect this guy and wait for more.
To be honest, I do not expect any obvious breakthrough.
But, who knows?

Very Best

Well put. I now understand that my personality express something different on paper than what my mind thinks. I will try to be more careful, more optimistic, a better listener, more patient. etc. and let that come out - not keep it inside my head. There is more of you I have noticed isn't very pleased by my many, some how looked at as sarcastic/negative, replies. I am sorry for this. it's just Vidar, me, my personality. It's hard to change that at mid-life.

Well, the truth about me is in my mind. My replies, comments, and so on, is never ment as destructive critisism, nor any attempt to pop the balloon of hope, joy and optimism in anyone. I do have a very critical, questioning, and sceptic attitude, that is partially inherited (Not from Odin ;D), and partially a shape of my childhood. I believe there is millions of people sharing some of these "properties". Nothing special about me. It's just how I'm been put together during 40 years.

We have all different personalities. I have mine, and others have theirs. I hope anyone can accept it.

Btw. The reason for "Low-Q", is related to loudspeakers. The lower the Q is (The ability to oscillate), the better control with the speaker, and the audiable output. You see, I'm an loudspeaker engineer. I'm also a petimeter - it can never be good enough (it some how reflects my personality).

Next time you or anyone read anything "negative" from me, please imagine a smily ( :)) at the end of the reply. No harm meant. (The imaginary smily is suppose to be about here)

EDIT: I whish I could take your personal attack on me with a pinch of salt. But I guess that was not ment as bad as it is written (?) If so, I have read between the lines, and will try to be a better person.

br.

Vidar

Billy baby.

Just a hint. Make 10 them in parallel, or 20 if they are so easy to do. That should put some meat on the buffet table at your demo.

Just jok'in man. I am not joking about the 10 or 20.

From where I see it you can either go bigger, or, more of the same, or, something different. More of the same is a logical choice to start with.

I know you will figure it out.

Good Luck.

wattsup

PS: But if one day you decide to just open source for some top notch help, we will understand.

Bill
How are  things going?

Thanks
Chet

Bill,

Any chance to just show your original device first before of spending loads into an upscale one?

Thanks,
Mark

Quote from: wattsup on September 08, 2011, 10:38:18 PM
Billy baby.

Just a hint. Make 10 them in parallel, or 20 if they are so easy to do. That should put some meat on the buffet table at your demo.

Just jok'in man. I am not joking about the 10 or 20.

From where I see it you can either go bigger, or, more of the same, or, something different. More of the same is a logical choice to start with.

I know you will figure it out.

Good Luck.

wattsup

PS: But if one day you decide to just open source for some top notch help, we will understand.

Good suggestion. If if they cannot be linked for some reason, they need to all be able to work simultaniously while placed on the same table. To show that if there is input from the environment, it is not being limited to space volume or earth surface. Also, the table with measuring equipment might need to be picked up and placed on a roof, in a basement, next to a swimming pool, etc, to ensure environmental aspects are absent. Also, breathe at the device while running measurements :-)

Just tuning in, but passionately hoping Bill's got something real, and scalable.

Quote from: Cloxxki on September 12, 2011, 08:55:53 AM
Good suggestion. If if they cannot be linked for some reason, they need to all be able to work simultaneously while placed on the same table. To show that if there is input from the environment, it is not being limited to space volume or earth surface. Also, the table with measuring equipment might need to be picked up and placed on a roof, in a basement, next to a swimming pool, etc, to ensure environmental aspects are absent. Also, breathe at the device while running measurements :-)

Just tuning in, but passionately hoping Bill's got something real, and scalable.

This is off topic and not particularly in reference to Bill's device...But
in general devices should not interact or "shadow" copies of themselves.
If they do, it doesn't decrease their standalone worth, but will need
to be taken into account in a product. Testakita machine have a
pseudo-random antenna key that can be changed to keep machines
from interacting as they interact with the environment - much.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Quote from: Low-Q on September 06, 2011, 01:54:56 PM
All I can see here is words, words, words. No solid facts. Did I miss something?

Vidar

And you are not likely to! This thread is a waste of bandwidth.

My prototype is completed. I am getting a steady 5.2 volts output. For the last week I have been getting some wide voltage outputs and spikes but I solved the problem and the output is steady.
I was able to use a Faraday cage at a local University and found that the output was not affected.
RF signals are not relevant.
I am going to start a 30 day test to check on voltage output and stability. Also at the end of the 30 days I will examine all the componets to check for any signs of desegregation.
I have access to a electron microscope at the University I am working through and I have examined the componets and have detailed pictures. I will compare these with pictures taken in 30 days.

Again this is what I am claiming:

No Input
No component desegregation
No heat
No toxic  or fumes of any kind
All solid state
No moving parts
Completely scaleable

As things progress I will keep you informed
Bill

Hey Bill:

Good work.  Glad to hear that you are getting a steady output of 5.2V.  Were you able to measure the current coming out?  With that you would be able to know the power output, which is the real indicator.

Chris

Quote from: billmehess on September 13, 2011, 12:54:48 PM
My prototype is completed. I am getting a steady 5.2 volts output. For the last week I have been getting some wide voltage outputs and spikes but I solved the problem and the output is steady.
I was able to use a Faraday cage at a local University and found that the output was not affected.
RF signals are not relevant.
I am going to start a 30 day test to check on voltage output and stability. Also at the end of the 30 days I will examine all the componets to check for any signs of desegregation.
I have access to a electron microscope at the University I am working through and I have examined the componets and have detailed pictures. I will compare these with pictures taken in 30 days.

Again this is what I am claiming:

No Input
No component desegregation
No heat
No toxic  or fumes of any kind
All solid state
No moving parts
Completely scaleable

As things progress I will keep you informed
Bill

Yes, good, Bill -- but how about the POWER output?    when you say "scaleable" == what power output do you actually have now?
Also, any update on WHEN you will announce what this device is?

Congrats Bill.  Yep that's the biggy .... current on a load - inquiring minds want to know ;) .  Need to know actual power in watts being generated and then you or we can eventually guess what it may cost to build a unit with usable power.  Of course it will be a guess until all details can be worked out for a production scenario and hopefully it is one that is cheaper than solar or wind.  Of course if it can come in close in cost and runs 24/7 then it's a winner right there since neither solar or wind are 24/7.  Best of luck.

Yes power is everything
Current numbers

I can charge a 1 farad cap to 1.2 volts in 60 seconds  e=1/2cv(2)
   (1f)(1.44)  /2 = .72 j.

.72 j/60 sec = .012 milliwatts


better than 150 micro watts.
Big improvements but still a long way to go.
Bill

Quote from: billmehess on September 13, 2011, 05:13:09 PM
Yes power is everything
Current numbers

I can charge a 1 farad cap to 1.2 volts in 60 seconds  e=1/2cv(2)
   (1f)(1.44)  /2 = .72 j.

.72 j/60 sec = .012 milliwatts


better than 150 micro watts.
Big improvements but still a long way to go.
Bill

" .72 j/60 sec = .012 milliwatts better than 150 micro watts. Big improvements "  ???

Perhaps you meant .12 watts.  ???

After all, .012 milliwatts equals 12 microwatts which is less than .15 milliwatts (150 microwatts)
whereas .12 watts equals 120 milliwatts.

Cheers

Quote from: hoptoad on September 14, 2011, 12:35:23 AM
" .72 j/60 sec = .012 milliwatts better than 150 micro watts. Big improvements "  ???

Perhaps you meant .12 watts.  ???
[...]

.72 J / 60 sec = 12 milliwatts

I'm tired been working days in shop on this project
meant  .012 watts or 12 milliwatts
Bill

Quote from: nul-points on September 14, 2011, 02:15:38 AM

.72 J / 60 sec = 12 milliwatts

Still tiny power, but definitely an improvement on 150 microwatts.
P.S. Thanks for the power clarification. Knew there had to be a decimal point in the wrong place somewhere or a simple typo.

Cheers

Hi Bill,
is this it  ;D
Quote
isnt this just an ambient termoelectric converter? the impurity in the paper plus the steel and magnet chould behave simmilar to a peltier element.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mX8S767zT4&NR=1

Quote from: powercat on September 14, 2011, 04:11:02 AM
Hi Bill,
is this it  ;D
Quote
isnt this just an ambient termoelectric converter? the impurity in the paper plus the steel and magnet chould behave simmilar to a peltier element.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mX8S767zT4&NR=1

Really? Surely not. I know sweet fa about this stuff and am but a humble replicator. Based on what others told me in this group I had simply created a galvanic reaction. I'll have a dig for the original thread on this forum

Quote from: Jimboot on September 14, 2011, 05:29:50 AM
Really? Surely not. I know sweet fa about this stuff and am but a humble replicator. Based on what others told me in this group I had simply created a galvanic reaction. I'll have a dig for the original thread on this forum

@powercat I just noticed your :D
Anyway here is that old thread - I'm still learning :)
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4762.msg111511#msg111511

Quote from: Low-Q on September 08, 2011, 11:54:56 AM
Well put. I now understand that my personality express something different on paper than what my mind thinks. I will try to be more careful, more optimistic, a better listener, more patient. etc. and let that come out - not keep it inside my head. There is more of you I have noticed isn't very pleased by my many, some how looked at as sarcastic/negative, replies. I am sorry for this. it's just Vidar, me, my personality. It's hard to change that at mid-life.

Well, the truth about me is in my mind. My replies, comments, and so on, is never ment as destructive critisism, nor any attempt to pop the balloon of hope, joy and optimism in anyone. I do have a very critical, questioning, and sceptic attitude, that is partially inherited (Not from Odin ;D), and partially a shape of my childhood. I believe there is millions of people sharing some of these "properties". Nothing special about me. It's just how I'm been put together during 40 years.

We have all different personalities. I have mine, and others have theirs. I hope anyone can accept it.

BTW. The reason for "Low-Q", is related to loudspeakers. The lower the Q is (The ability to oscillate), the better control with the speaker, and the audiable output. You see, I'm an loudspeaker engineer. I'm also a petimeter - it can never be good enough (it some how reflects my personality).

Next time you or anyone read anything "negative" from me, please imagine a smily ( :)) at the end of the reply. No harm meant. (The imaginary smily is suppose to be about here)

EDIT: I whish I could take your personal attack on me with a pinch of salt. But I guess that was not ment as bad as it is written (?) If so, I have read between the lines, and will try to be a better person.

br.

Vidar

Hi Over_Unity forumers,
Sorry, this is an off-Bill-Mehess-Breakthru topic.

@Vidar,
Sorry for my late responding.
Actually, I 'delayed' reading your answer as I avoid ranting/diatribe.
I should not have retarded it. Thanks for your clever explanations. I was thinking about you as a 'shill'. I was wrong. I was really irritated by (most of) your posts but I usually try not being too offensive. Actually, it was a personal attack but not a too aggressive one (to me :-\).

OK!
Vidar is not so careful, not so optimistic, not so patient.
Vidar could be sarcastic/negative.
Vidar has nothing to do with Odin.

In my opinion, Vidar does not need to change his own personalitie and be a 'better' person.

Vidar is Vidar and let it be.

I'm serious.

Very Best

Hi Bill,
Been a little under the weather for a few days, but glad to see you are still on track. Let me know if or when I can help...I am just 1 & 1/2 hour away from you and will come up when ever you say to.
Keep up the good work.
L8R,
Doug

So your now yet again not keeping to your word on showing this device today as you for the second time have planned?  So why Bill do you not open source it so this HUGE group mind can help make progress?  We are willing to accept licensing fees if that is what it takes, no problem. 

It would seem there is a problem though.  It is with keeping your word which IS your promise. 

Lots of good people here have heard these type of easy words for years here and ALL have turned out to be void.  If you are a man to be trusted then be true to your word.  We are not here to play games, we are not here to judge you.  We are not here to waste time, we are not here to give someone attention.  We are here to share and move forward with a great capacity of many, many minds making analysis and reforming ideas.
Reviewing what works and what is not, we all (cept the trolls) want to make headway, by not contributing to this Bill many people are attending to your topic.  This may be difficult to see since you are finding engagement and even enjoyment from our attentions.  But since you are not keeping your word as you have said "TWICE" now,  it is wasting precious time.  Our lives only have so much time each,  we are giving you part of precious life.  So I ask you respect what that is really worth and either make your device in the open so we can all work on it or wait until you can decide (honestly) to open source it.  Or else people are using up very precious time from their goals to snap up your dangling bait.  You are a salesman and know how to use the baiting technique very well (such as you telling others you were making violins).  What honor does that show, Bill respect us and admit your mistakes and we will honor that, you will have friendships here (we are all human and make mistakes).  But real friendship fills needs within soul of both and are not one sided.  Don't you want that really?  Trust is a great thing, trust us to accept you and what you may or may not have.  Try us, we are a great bunch of people, we are willing and able to help where you really need it.  Please don't take offense at my words Bill.  We want to help not harm.  We all have need for this warm friendly human forum and are seeking not only to find a way to use natural principles to harvest energy, but we are also able to gain support and glean from experience and add to our work and self from each other.  If this is to embarrassing to admit then just remake an account and present your ideas and let us restart being friends with you. But I must tell you, you will be far ahead if you just be honest with us and TRUST us to accept you as you are.  We will have respect for your honesty.  Bill you are my brother and I want you to know I care about you and want you to be happy, that is all I can do unless you care back.

I was quite prepared to show what I had at a open demo but then there was a quite a number of comments from members of the form, all of how I have the greatest respect for, that said that the power (wattage) output was way to small to make the device of any practical value. And they were RIGHT!!!
I am working now to increase the power output so that the device has some meaning. My intention is to present a device that is a game changer and not just another toy.
The exercise here is not just to show no power in but power out. A simple battery does that. What I need to show is that BUT also no consumables. In other words a device which is producing power that is continuous , of practical uses in the real world, and will not wear out or at least not wear out for a very very long time.
At this time I do not choose to reveal what I have I have seen threads on this site go for hundreds of pages and to me its just a waste of time. When I am ready and can show the device doing something really meaningful I will hold a open demo. Right now I am in the milliwatt range a few weeks ago I was in the microwatt range so progress is being made.

Thanks for all your effort Bill, good luck!!!

Good for you, Bill. Stay focused, Stay in touch.
L8R,
Doug

Quote from: billmehess on September 15, 2011, 05:51:25 PM
Right now I am in the milliwatt range a few weeks ago I was in the microwatt range so progress is being made.

@BM

Don't forget to drop in and say hello when you are in the wattsup range. lol

No really great news so keep going. We never really realize the distance between a microwatt and a milliwatt and a watt. Only when you are building something in microwatt increments does it really show itself.

Do you realize all the blah, blah you just saved yourself by delaying your demo.

So I  have one sticky question for you and please do not take it in any wrong way because it is only intended to be in a right way. Do you feel yourself to be mature enough so that at one point, if you realize you need help to advance to the next level, you will ask the help and do you have a logical time frame for that.

There are guys on this forum that have the knowledge in many areas that may be useful and I am sure if your sent them a PM with either a request for help or just questions you may have.

Maybe one other question. Are you working your increase in multiples of the same or simply building a bigger unit with thicker wires, etc. Sometimes going bigger is not better because you lose the sensitivity that may be required to push them freebies along.

wattsup

Quote from: billmehess on September 13, 2011, 12:54:48 PM
My prototype is completed. I am getting a steady 5.2 volts output. For the last week I have been getting some wide voltage outputs and spikes but I solved the problem and the output is steady.
I was able to use a Faraday cage at a local University and found that the output was not affected.
RF signals are not relevant.
I am going to start a 30 day test to check on voltage output and stability. Also at the end of the 30 days I will examine all the componets to check for any signs of desegregation.
I have access to a electron microscope at the University I am working through and I have examined the componets and have detailed pictures. I will compare these with pictures taken in 30 days.

Again this is what I am claiming:

No Input
No component desegregation
No heat
No toxic  or fumes of any kind
All solid state
No moving parts
Completely scaleable

As things progress I will keep you informed
Bill

People who sell electricity don't want free electricity devices. You should post your findings to protect yourself against unscrupulous people who will not hesitate to silence this idea permanently, if it's possible. When it's out, this is not possible. You can forget about selling it to make money also, for the same reason, the government is selling electricity at a high price and is now in the process of shutting down power plants under the guise of "saving the planet".

Don't be naive to think you've hit the jack pot.
There is safety in numbers.

For now Lidmotors "Penny" is much more convincing than a "magical device" announced but never shown. I also wonder how billmehess gets the idea, that 0.x microwatts will impress anyone in a public demonstration and already starts to make commercial plans... uhm, isn't this a little bit naive? How old are you, billmehess?

Now he found out "yeah, it's true it will not impress anyone, lemme improve it...". I mean, wasn't this clear from the beginning? Oh, and the device is too precious to reveal it an share with anyone, for all in all, we only want to steal the idea - at least I will, so make sure you don't demonstrate it in here, because I can read it. And so will the MIB. Pardon me, but I can foretell where this ends: delay delay delay for the public demo... until it turns out to be another hoax, or the device is forgotten because there was nothing ever in it or the inventor finds out his device is a galvanic cell or whatever. Of course this works in a faraday cage as well.

Sorry, I've not read all 19 pages, just picked up 3-4 posts - but they showed me again, that there was still not mentioned anything substantial from the inventor to the device. 19 pages in which he wants people to give him feedback, tap on his shoulder how great he is... and yet... nothing's there... We've had that in the past, we have it now, and we'll have this in the future.

Oh, and @inventor: before telling me, I am the mega-pessimist: have you thought about that there are many skilled people in here where you can learn from, and if there is really something to your invention, that they can actually help you to improve it?

I would like to show some progress on my device, I have just posted a video on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ4Y4y_mMac

Bill

Go Rossi!!!!!!

Hey Bill

Do the leads have to be submerged?

Mags

Quote from: billmehess on October 12, 2011, 12:27:04 AM
I would like to show some progress on my device, I have just posted a video on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ4Y4y_mMac

Bill

Go Rossi!!!!!!

Go Rossi indeed! Really interesting stuff Bill. Do you think it is some type of LENR? And I have to ask... what is the special material?

@BH

Y'a man. Thanks a heep.
Looks simple enough except for the coating thing.

OK, here are some questions that come to mind.

1) Does it work as well when the lights in the room are turned off and all other electrical appliances are turned off?

2) Leaving the volt meter in line may be a problem for a public demo at those mV levels. What if you take off the meter and replace it with a capacitor with or without a germanium diode. Then check the volts with your meter occasionally, take a measurement then remove the meter.

3) Maybe put a small toroid coil primary in series with a secondary and put that in series before a diode to cap to see if it can act as an energy pump by increasing the saturation in the toroid core.

Keep going. No rush.

wattsup

Allow me to answer some questions;

Yes the leads are submerged (you would think they would short out)
Is this a LENR ? To be honest I really do not know , it is interesting though that both my hands are glowing -just joking.
Same reading with lights on or off so not photo sensitive
I can charge a 4900 micro farad 25 volt cap. up to  50 micro farads in 60 seconds so very low current. When the cap is disconnected the system is about 90 ma lower which will "recharge in approx 1 min.
I am not to concerned  with output as I can scale this up, I am attempting to show a new method of generating voltage that does not employ a migration of ions and using a material coating which experiences no degregation.
The temp of the water I will measure over the next 24 hr. to see if there is any delta T.
Bill

My daughter in law just gave birth to my first grand child about 1 hour ago in Portland Oregon. A boy,
all is good on the home front.
Bill

Quote from: billmehess on October 12, 2011, 01:21:35 AM
Allow me to answer some questions;

Yes the leads are submerged (you would think they would short out)
Is this a LENR ? To be honest I really do not know , it is interesting though that both my hands are glowing -just joking.
Same reading with lights on or off so not photo sensitive
I can charge a 4900 micro farad 25 volt cap. up to  50 micro farads in 60 seconds so very low current. When the cap is disconnected the system is about 90 ma lower which will "recharge in approx 1 min.
I am not to concerned  with output as I can scale this up, I am attempting to show a new method of generating voltage that does not employ a migration of ions and using a material coating which experiences no degregation.
The temp of the water I will measure over the next 24 hr. to see if there is any delta T.
Bill

My daughter in law just gave birth to my first grand child about 1 hour ago in Portland Oregon. A boy,
all is good on the home front.
Bill

From one Granddad to another congratulations! Glowing hands LOL :D

So very little understanding of basic science it's shameful.

Bill, get those leads up and TOTALLY out of the water with no 'moisture bridge' on the surface of the plate and then you can start talking about it not being Galvanic.

This was one thing IBpointless didnt understand either with his 'single metal electrolysis' (which he eventually went quiet on).  The fact is you have two or three dissimilar metals in that water right now.  You have 1)  the plate 2) the SS clips and 3) the copper cable not to mention the solder and every other thing.

Magluvin was obviously alluding to this when he asked you that question which you didnt answer.

As far as your story on "no degradation", yes you won't see degradation with the naked eye when the Galvanic reaction is so very low.

The delusion is strong.

Quote from: highvoltage on October 12, 2011, 01:47:37 AM
So very little understanding of basic science it's shameful.

Bill, get those leads up and TOTALLY out of the water with no 'moisture bridge' on the surface of the plate and then you can start talking about it not being Galvanic.

This was one thing IBpointless didnt understand either with his 'single metal electrolysis' (which he eventually went quiet on).  The fact is you have two or three dissimilar metals in that water right now.  You have 1)  the plate 2) the SS clips and 3) the copper cable not to mention the solder and every other thing.

Magluvin was obviously alluding to this when he asked you that question which you didnt answer.

As far as your story on "no degradation", yes you won't see degradation with the naked eye when the Galvanic reaction is so very low.

The delusion is strong.

I was thinking the same thing but he said the plate was plastic not metal. So maybe nickel plated clips? If the springs are coated as well.... isn't that just one metal? I did not see the copper cable submerged.

With the plates removed and the leads "dangling" in the water there is a galvanic reaction of about 90 mv. through all three containers .Adding the plates the voltage reading is over 5 times that. The voltmeter is currenty reading 387 mv.
Adding additional containers containing the module and using the same clips will add approx 130 mv and allowing for the 30 mv due to the galvanic reaction of the leads the net gin is till around 100 mv. per container.
Tomorrow I am going to thicken my mixture and "paint" another plastic peice to see if I can increase the output.
Been a long day- going to bed.

Quote from: billmehess on October 12, 2011, 02:46:37 AM
With the plates removed and the leads "dangling" in the water there is a galvanic reaction of about 90 mv. through all three containers .Adding the plates the voltage reading is over 5 times that. The voltmeter is currenty reading 387 mv.
Adding additional containers containing the module and using the same clips will add approx 130 mv and allowing for the 30 mv due to the galvanic reaction of the leads the net gin is till around 100 mv. per container.
Tomorrow I am going to thicken my mixture and "paint" another plastic peice to see if I can increase the output.
Been a long day- going to bed.

Bill

You dont seem to understand the concept of galvanics or the relationship between anode/cathode.  Let me save you a lot of time.

Your plastic is merely a substrate...nothing magical is occurring with that.  Your paint obviously has a metalic component and therefore is taking the role of either anode or cathode.

I can't believe I have to spell this out.  In a galvanic series the anode and cathode DO NOT have to be the same size.  Heck you can put a giant plate of zinc in water and then only a small piece of copper and get a good reaction.  This is what is happening with your experiment.  The fact that you placed the clips in the water and produced voltage shows what I was saying is true - there are at least two metals surrounding the clips (be they the spring or solder or copper wire).

Now add to the equation the 'final' plate (your paint) and the series is complete.

Hi Bill great to see you sharing  :)
Very interesting work, I do think  highvoltage  has a good point, is there any chance you can make a U shaped plastic plate so that the clips can be attached outside the water and prove or eliminate that argument.

Maybe this will be one of the best performing galvanic reactions we have seen ?

No need to make a U shape, just submerge most of the plate in the water with clips attached to the top part of the plate that is out of the water.

Quote from: Lakes on October 12, 2011, 05:39:17 AM
No need to make a U shape, just submerge most of the plate in the water with clips attached to the top part of the plate that is out of the water.

I would agree that this simple experiment would validate whether there is some thing of real interest with the plates.  If all clips are out of the water and dry but the plates are in the water and you still have a voltage then you really have something of interest.  But if there is no voltage then I would rethink what is going on. 

I just got back in, need to go to the hospital to see my new grandon, born yesterday. I will post another youtube video this evening showing the clips completely out of the water.
bill

Quote from: billmehess on October 12, 2011, 04:21:39 PM
I just got back in, need to go to the hospital to see my new grandon, born yesterday. I will post another youtube video this evening showing the clips completely out of the water.
bill

Enjoy a good cigar and congrats.

wattsup

Hey Bill

If you reverse the meter leads, does the polarity change? If so, any idea of why there is polarization of charge?

Like, lets say if you reversed the leads on 1 of the plates, would there be a change in total voltage?

Also, if the leads that are on the plastic were the same material, there should not be galvanic, battery action.

Sometimes alligator clips are 1 metal plated with another. And, sometimes the plating doesnt cover completely, especially inside, and if the teeth have been marred.  And the wire, (copper) in the water, these different metals could make charge. 

Just saying, if you have only 1 type of metal in the water on both sides of the plate, this will eliminate these types of charges and just focus on the plate charge. And eliminate suspicion.

;]

Mags

I hope this second video will make things clear. The two connectors are never allowed to get wet.
Bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7klSIifrNsU

Congrats on the new grandson!   Thanks for the video.  It looks like you learned a way to get a higher voltage in the process too.  I think seeing that last video is going to spark some excitement again.  Looking forward to more good news in the future. 

I just had a thought Bill.  I don't have a clue how this is working so this is just wild guess at somthing that might produce an even higher voltage.  Have you tried putting an insulator under one side of one clip and an insulator under the opposite side of the other clip?   So essentially you would be only in electrical contact of opposite sides of the sheet. 

Hi Bill,
nice work, we would all love to know what's in that paint ? I am guessing that it is some type of marine antifouling that contains metals.
Have you managed to run an LED yet ?

Connect a Joule thief to a stack of plates?

As always here be the voice of truth whether you like it or not.  Mags may say I'm a hater, I'm not, I just say it how it is and won't tell you its a cupcake in your hand when it's more than evident your holding a turd.

The test pilots mantra should well be that of the free energy experimenter "dont fly higher than you are willing to fall" which equates to "if you can't take anything but back patting then don't start testing in the first place".

Anyway, if you look at those videos it is VERY clear that a 'fuel' is being expended.  You dont need special analyzers and all sorts of gizmos to examine the plate surface, only the eyes in your head. 
1)  When the plates are still in the water the voltage falls.  This equates to some sort of 'fuel transfer'.
2)  When Bill moves the plates the water 'refreshes' around the reacting plates and hence the voltage momentarily rises.

This is super simple.  At best he has a fuel cell where the plates dont degrade but hydrogen from the water is the fuel (I seriously doubt this).  At average, my guess is that this is plain old galvanics.

Either way, the voltage is so pitifully low with amps even more miserable that you would need a bath tub full to run a joule thief. 

You can purchase fuel cell substrate from 3M and make smaller cells with higher output.

Hi Bill,
Interesting videos. I am interested in knowing how much power this generates.... so far you have only shown voltage which doesn't actually mean much. I am sure you know that volts with out amps is not power and amps with out volts is not power, there needs to be both....

surely it can't be hard to hook up a joule thief to your current set up? any ways, I intend for my comments to be read in a constructive way. Keep up the good work.

Poit

The purpose of the second video was to show that the device did not need the clips to be submerged for it to work.
Of course I know that the voltage and current is very low on this one module. I have gone way beyond this snall demo in my shop and will be showing that soon enough.
As to the comments by high voltage, the unit stablizes at 300 mv. my camera was running out of time
so I could not show that to your satisfction.
This is not a marine paint it is a substance that I developed. As to a galvanic reaction remember there are no anodes or cathodes which allows for a migration of ions and the subsequent degregation of the anode. Will this degrade over time so far it has not and I have been running a much larger unit for over 5 weeks. Of course everything degrades so I will have to wait and see.
And yes one of of my  units made up of 12 cells will light up a 2.1 v LED  25ma very brightly. In my last test I kept one at maximum brightness for 7 days before I disconnected it.
I will be out for the day.
Bill

Will you be treating all your plates to get the "bubble"  effect now? :)

Quote from: billmehess on October 13, 2011, 09:55:49 AM
And yes one of of my  units made up of 12 cells will light up a 2.1 v LED  25ma very brightly. In my last test I kept one at maximum brightness for 7 days before I disconnected it.
I will be out for the day.
Bill

Bill that's great news ;D
any chance of a video showing that LED setup ?
keep up the great work,hopefully the beginning of something big ;D

First thank you all for the encouragement.
Yes I have been treating all the plates for this "bubble effect" which appears to be increasing the voltage.
I will show some additional videos but not right away. I am beginning today to build a much larger unit to do a lot more than just light LED and yes I plan to incorprate a joule thief.
The cost to  assemble one of these modules is incredibly inexpensive at about 25 cents each.
Since the current increases in direct proportion to plate size this allows me a lot of latitude
in its development.
Tonight I am going to run a test to see if there is a temperature change in the water. I will have 2 other open containers of same size as controls and see if the one holding the module has a delta T.
If it does maybe I have some kind of LERN effect , I really do not know yet. Must likely there will be no change in temp.
Since at this time the power is so low compared to Rossi's E-Cat if there is a LERN effect maybe I could call it the E-Kitty (LOL!!!)

Hi Bill,
well done.
But to be completely sure, that it is not galvanic,
you also must be sure, that the powder you put onto the
plastic foil does not suck in the moisture from the air and/or the
water.

Did you try it yet with other connections, like poking 2 graphite
pencils onto the foil´s surface ?

2. Does the voltage decrease the lower the disctance is of the connection
on the foil ?

3. Do you have on both sides of the plastic foil this powder and does each clip
lead make contact to both sides ?

4. Is this powder expensive to make or are the ingredients cheaply available ?

5. Is the coating process expensive and does it need much heat = external energy ?

Many thanks for your videos so far.
Maybe you can answer my questions in a new video ?

Regards, Stefan.

Quote from: hartiberlin on October 13, 2011, 05:11:53 PM
Hi Bill,
well done.
But to be completely sure, that it is not galvanic,
you also must be sure, that the powder you put onto the
plastic foil does not suck in the moisture from the air and/or the
water.

Did you try it yet with other connections, like poking 2 graphite
pencils onto the foil´s surface ?

2. Does the voltage decrease the lower the disctance is of the connection
on the foil ?

3. Do you have on both sides of the plastic foil this powder and does each clip
lead make contact to both sides ?

4. Is this powder expensive to make or are the ingredients cheaply available ?

5. Is the coating process expensive and does it need much heat = external energy ?

Many thanks for your videos so far.
Maybe you can answer my questions in a new video ?

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Stefan
1. At this point I am still determining if this is a galvanic reaction. I need to continue to remove all the
components that would create a galvanic reaction. Actually a galvanic reaction is not that bad if that what it turns out to be as long as I can limit or eliminate the component degregation-wll have to see on this one. Is it sucking moisture from the water or air-that to be determined.
2. No decrease in voltage from clip placement
3. I am not using plastic foil , it is a hard piece of clear plastic that I cut with my band saw.
4. The coating is on one side and the clip will thus make contact with clear plastic and on the otherside the coating on the plastic.
5. The coating applied with a brush, it will air dry in about an hour I have only used a heat lamp to speed up the drying, leaving it on a little to long created the bubbling effect. The cost of each module is around 25 cents.

Quote from: billmehess on October 13, 2011, 07:30:56 PM
Hi Stefan
1. At this point I am still determining if this is a galvanic reaction. I need to continue to remove all the
components that would create a galvanic reaction. Actually a galvanic reaction is not that bad if that what it turns out to be as long as I can limit or eliminate the component degregation-wll have to see on this one. Is it sucking moisture from the water or air-that to be determined.
[snip]

Bill, this is Dr. Jones.  Please note that if this is indeed a galvanic reaction, you cannot "eliminate the component degredation", since the galvanic process DEPENDS on a chemical reaction which necessitates degrading at least one of the reacting materials. 

A chemical process is inherently limited -- it cannot go on forever, and it is not overunity (by any reasonable definition). 

You may have a very nice battery and with that thought I wish you the best.
Steve

Quote from: JouleSeeker on October 14, 2011, 12:38:49 AM
Bill, this is Dr. Jones.  Please note that if this is indeed a galvanic reaction, you cannot "eliminate the component degradation", since the galvanic process DEPENDS on a chemical reaction which necessitates degrading at least one of the reacting materials. 

A chemical process is inherently limited -- it cannot go on forever, and it is not overunity (by any reasonable definition). 

You may have a very nice battery and with that thought I wish you the best.
Steve

I believe that logic would dictate that you are correct, I will keep working on it as I am also working on two other devices along a parallel line. As always the journey will be traveled and the goal won  with persistence.
Bill

Hi Bill,
thanks for the additional infos.

You should try other contact materials other than clip leads.

Just try instead of clip leads -> pencil leads ( graphite) and/or silver wire.

What will these read for voltages and what is the short circuit current on your
digital meter ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: If you have different pickup cables between your digital voltmeter,
like your soldered connection cable, be cautious, this could also
produce error effects.
So just use for instance 2 copper cables from the digital voltmeter
and wrap them without any solder onto 2 graphite pencil leads
and touch with them your plate and don´t put the pencil leads into the water.
Will be interesting to see, what voltage and shortcircuit current this will generate.

Also change the position the pencil leads will point to on your plate and
tell us, if a distance of 5 mm will have the same voltage and current
as a distance of 100 mm.

Many thanks.

   I thought I would add that Lasersaber has made cells that although are entirely galvanic in nature, he has been controlling the oxidation factor by submerging the whole cell into a bath of motor oil.  He is seeing no oxidation with this method. This may indicated that the galvanic reaction is not the cause of the oxidation factor, that ruins the cells in time, but instead it may actually be just moisture and oxygen that are the causing the deterioration and breaking down of the metals.
  To entirely eliminate galvanics (two different metals cell) may also cost the loss of valuable current and voltage levels,  in order to obtain the wanted non galvanic cells. 
   A galvanic cell works by a charging and discharging process, which functions at the expense of the metals, which may not have to be the exact same situation here. As there is no additional charging in this case,  but a continual one way output instead. 
To prove the point is not an easy matter, but that is what many of the current non-galvanic crystal cell builders are now working towards.
  As the saying goes...  Time will Tell...
                                                           NickZ

test

Nothing new since October. I did some catching up as I hadn't read the last few posts or seen bill's vid. it is now obvious it is a galvanic action. that's not to say that's a bad thing.

A new cheap form of battery power would be great.

Did you know the reason eveready stopped producing the old drycell battery used in antique phones was because they never went flat! The company could not sell enough new batteries so they took them off the market. At least that's what I was told by an old timer when I joined Telecom in Australia back in the late 70's. Its not that the batteries were OU or anything like that. it's just they had so much material in them and so well designed, they would take many years to degrade to the point of unusable.

Bills battery is almost definately galvanic. There are so many sources of potential chemical action.

1/ the water is it pure? tap water will have salts and minerals. it may not have a balanced ph
2/ even when the clips are out of water the water may be travelling (wicking) through the paint to the clips
3/ the paint itself may made from materials which have dissimilar metals and other elements such as salts.
4/ moisture in the air may contribute to the galvanic action.

Its actually quite hard to rule out  environmental effects when you are dealing in very low currents. Because a voltmeter has very high impedance you can create a potential across the leads quite easily. just touching the leads with your fingers is enough. 

25c for the materials is actually quite expensive when you think about it. I currently pay 24c per KW/h (residential tarrif). at 0.3v one would need to draw 3,333 Amps for an hour to get the equivalent.


Good luck anyway Bill. I hope my observations prove to be wrong in this case.


CC

Dug up a whole mountain and what I found ? Just a small rat.  >:( >:( >:(

Best,

(nothing to say. I thought this was a new thread but then I saw it was an old one)

Google, always read the first and last post first... 8)


That said, one of them "dry-piles" ("Duluc" ?) would be a nice project. Almost like a nuclear battery.


Regards

Nice tip. Thanks Sir dieter.