Electrons are spinning around its nuclear - that is what we have learned.
Is it already a theory that these electrons will be fixed in their alignment in space like a gyro?
When I turn mass around, try to move it, it appears to be nothing which is preventing me from doing it. The electrons does not appear to slow down when I turn them around with the mass, because the temperature in that mass is the same. When you twist a gyro in an opposing direction, the gyro slows down. If we do the same with the spinning electrons, I would automaticly think that they slow down and cool the mass, but it doesn't. Or does it?
It might be a stupid thought, but I just had to ask :)
Vidar
Quote from: Low-Q on August 29, 2011, 03:03:30 PM
Electrons are spinning around its nuclear - that is what we have learned.
Is it already a theory that these electrons will be fixed in their alignment in space like a gyro?
When I turn mass around, try to move it, it appears to be nothing which is preventing me from doing it. The electrons does not appear to slow down when I turn them around with the mass, because the temperature in that mass is the same. When you twist a gyro in an opposing direction, the gyro slows down. If we do the same with the spinning electrons, I would automaticly think that they slow down and cool the mass, but it doesn't. Or does it?
It might be a stupid thought, but I just had to ask :)
Vidar
electrons in a bound field state do not move until there is an increase/decrease in the electrons field state.
I don't like the classical approach to viewing electrons as little gyro's, they are point particles than can be a particle and or a wave, when the electron is a mean free particle by itself it is a point particle, when it is in a bound state it is a wave particle.
the conservation of energy would state that an electron does not move when bound unless it's field state changes by changing its energy. just as static electricity, it will stay put until its field state is interrupted in some way.
Jerry 8)
In iron oxide the magnet, the electron flows like a river -mobius strip in 3D ; not a marble. Check out ''Peltier effect'' cooling; and d orbitals for the flow picture of electron.
I tend to imagine electrons do not move at all around ! I think they OSCILLATE like a heart covering center area like a shield. Orbitals may really be standing waves patters. And of course oscillating pater may also rotate, I have even given explanation of light polarisation by some substances simply by unbalanced charge of electrons shields forcing rotation (spin) in one direction mostly.Unfortunately it was long time ago (when I was in college) and I can't recall details - I explained it to my chemistry professor but he has no time for me :-(
I guess we cannot really understand the electron. I did see an explanation on youtube. The electron can be viewed as a wave or a particle, but not a particle which is orbiting a nuke. It was explained that if the hydrogen atom had an orbiting electron, it would take just a fraction of a second before the electron crash into the positive nuke, and destroy the mass. So the electron does apparently NOT spin at all - at least not like the planets around the sun. Also the explanation why two objects just cant disappear into eachother, but collide is because of the electric field around the nukes in one object is repelling the electric field around the other object. The objects are really not touching but is something like 1 x 10^-18m apart. That would also explain a stochastic electron "fog" around the nuke. If there was an orbiting particle, the nukes would sometimes be exposed to the electrons on the other objects nukes and they would melt together....
For me this is hard to understand, because we know the effect of electromagnetism where the electrons are suppose to "spin" in the same direction around the nuke to create the magnetic force. So what really happens with the electrons, how do they really behave to make the electromagnetic force if there is no spin?
Maybe electromagnetism is a result of a polarized charged wave? Electrons which is aligned with the same polarization so the nuke some how is exposed?
Another thing about magnetism that I have been thinking of is what happens in a transformer. The magnetic field is (as we have learned) crossing the windings back and forth between the air and the iron core when we supply AC.
It appears to me that magnetism is "picked up" from thin air. Because when a current is applied to a coil, starting at very low current, there is a weak magnetic field which is appearently crossing the windings from outside-in as the current through the coil increase. As the current increase the field get stronger. A secondary coil is picking up the crossing magnetic field, and voltage can be read on the wires.
The next odd thing is that no matter how densed the magnetic field is in advance, a small difference in energy change in the primary coil, will transfer the same amount of energy change in the secondary coil. To me that mean if the current increase in a linear manner, the speed of the approaching magnetic field would decrease as the flux density gets higher to preserve the same number of magnetic lines to be crossed at all times. This can be "proven" by increasing the current in a linear manner, but the voltage readings from a secondary coil will be stable at a given voltage which value depends on how fast we increase the current through the primary coil.
As an example we smoothly increase the primary coil current by 1A every second, and we have for example 1V DC reading over the secondary coil. After one hour, there is 3600A going through the primary coil, but the voltage readings over the secondary coil is still 1V DC - not 3600V DC. And the flux density is 3600 times grater than at 1A where we started.
So how great can the flux density be? Is it a theoretical limit? It seems that there is just a tiny fraction of the electrons which is aligned in a permanent magnet - if any (litterally). What would happen to the permanentmagnet if ALL the electrons was aligned equally?
OK, this is getting more and more off topic - possibly, but it is an interesting subject I think.
Vidar
Scientists use analogical language to assist the "average person"
in understanding a particular concept, but carrying the analogy
too far, can instantiate problems. Quantum Electron spin is one
of them. This is why physists use mathematics combined with
very carefully defined set of basic operators for their real
understanding.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Sorry Vidar
I'm not following,I'm lost, because english is not my native language. However I think it is related to the question I'd like to find ansewr for: if there is solenoid, powered by DC current why magnetic field do not rise over time ? Magnetic field seems do not depend on amount of electrons but depends on rate of flow of charge = electric current (amperage). It's also interesting that the same effect is done by a fewer but faster electrons.
"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."
Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions, July, 1934
Quote from: forest on August 30, 2011, 04:55:29 PM
Sorry Vidar
I'm not following,I'm lost, because english is not my native language. However I think it is related to the question I'd like to find ansewr for: if there is solenoid, powered by DC current why magnetic field do not rise over time ? Magnetic field seems do not depend on amount of electrons but depends on rate of flow of charge = electric current (amperage). It's also interesting that the same effect is done by a fewer but faster electrons.
The magnetic field is determined by the Aampére (electric current) and number of turns in the coil (basicly). It has nothing to do with the voltage itself.
The magnetic field will build up over time in parallell with the built up current even if the applied voltage is instant and constant, but the time it takes to build up a magnetic field depends on the inductance of the coil (solenoid). Inductance is measured in Henrys (H).
When you disconnect the DC power source very fast, the magnetic field will disappear very fast. Therfor you will get sparks (And electric shock) between the leads. A fast changing magnetic field will cause high voltage from the coil.
BTW: What is your native language? Maybe I know it?
Vidar
Quote from: forest on August 30, 2011, 05:00:43 PM
"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."
Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions, July, 1934
you are spewing dogma over real science, science is not a lie and or a hope, it is observed fact until updated. science only finds truth and revels to find it.
if you think science is against you then you need medication. follow the construct to the truth, those before you were more intelligent in finding what they did. there is no mass conspiracy in science. just observe and report and test.