Overunity.com Archives

New Renaissance Prizes
Dr. Steven Jones
Emeritus Professor of Physics
Three Golden-Eagle gold coins to be given,
And up to 120 Silver-Eagle coins.  By me.

1.  Silver Eagle prize for allowing FREE lab-test:
First, your tests indicate that your build has more output power than input power -- and has output power of at least 1Watt on a load, and you will allow me to test/verify it . (“Black box” is OK, if you wish; you don’t have to tell me what’s inside, as long as there are no hidden batteries or capacitors).   Do your best and submit your entry for me to look at:  EMdevice12@yahoo.com
          Once OK’ed, I will also pay shipping both ways.  Results announced on forums; details of your device ONLY released WHEN you approve.  No galvanic batteries or "borrowing" from the electric-power grid, please!

2.  Gold Eagle (see photo below) prize if your device truly shows more Pout than Pin in my FREE tests, and you agree to seek to make the device available to mankind worldwide quickly.   (With a fair profit to the builder, that’s fine and I’ll even help!) 

3.  A self-running device that also powers a load at over 30W will receive an additional Gold Eagle coin, the Double-Gold-Eagle prize! 

Total value today, spot prices alone:

Gold   $1,754.38/ounce X 3 =  $5263.14    Silver  $34.13/ounce X 120 = $4095.60.    Total:  $9,358.74.

These coins come from my father who passed away two years ago, an electronics engineer who would â€" I am sure â€" favor this use of the inheritance.  I realize that I can’t build and test all the good ideas myself (although I keep experimenting!), but I can help others by using my training and experience to do PhD-level testing â€" and then assist in getting the product out the door to families everywhere.  That’s my goal.  The "contest" ends when either ALL THREE of the Gold Eagles are awarded, OR all 120 Silver Eagles are awarded.

Questions or suggestions?  Let me know!

Background.           
My website:  http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/

When I read about Dr.  Henry Moray’s self-running  electricity-generating device, I was intrigued.  Then I read about tests done by physicist Harvey Fletcher on it and became quite convinced â€"  Dr. Fletcher wrote:
"The device was contained in a small wooden box... which I, personally, inspected... The electrical load...consisted of 12 clear 75 Watt 100 Volt light bulbs and a 500 Watt electric flat iron... I did not know how the device functioned and I do not know today, but I do know that it did function for the several hours of time that I observed it.  I could discern no batteries, and could observe no other known methods of inducing electric power into the box or its loads."

I have jumped in and seen some “anomalous power effects” myself, but not claiming OU yet in my builds… (See, for example, my thread here:   http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10773.msg287594#msg287594  and here:  http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=762.0  )  I’m excited about the world-wide community hacking away at this problem… and I would like to provide encouragement and help where possible. 


A “New Renaissance”?   Catch the vision!

Galileo’s pioneering experiments â€" along with others -- lead to a Renaissance, a renewal of society and of the human spirit.  We live in exciting times â€" “end times” some would say.  I believe that we also live in the “times of refreshing” spoken of by Peter (Acts 3:19). With all the protests and upheavals going on there is also a prospect of “refreshing” or “renaissance” â€" a “New Renaissance” is quite possible with a clean, inexpensive energy invention.  A source of electrical power that will make individuals and families independent of fossil fuels will have revolutionary impact  -- a new Renaissance!

The first step is to see an “unconventional generator” like Moray’s actually work and be reproducible.  But a crucial second phase lies in getting this out to people without having it stomped on.  (We could discuss why Big Oil and Big Government might prefer to keep up the status-quo oil/tax profits rather than allowing people to produce power in their own homes and electric cars… Some of you know what happened to Dr. Moray’s device.)

Time is short and the need of humanity is great for a compact, non-polluting power source.  Many face debilitating economic depression, while the globalist big-oil companies continue to reak in outrageous profits.   Do they really want to see 5kWatt-scale devices that use no fossil fuels in individual homes and cars?    I’ll let you answer that one.

The New Renaissance prizes are offered to those who think they have a working OU device and would like a quick verification, and who are willing to seriously endeavor to get the device out to humanity rather than selling out to “the powers that be.” 


TIMING
Let’s all have a wonderful Christmas and New Year â€" with OU completely confirmed ASAP .
   To be frank, I have a seminar-talk on 9 March 2012 at a large university and I would REALLY like to award a Gold Eagle prize or two before then!  Here is the abstract for my talk:

QuoteAlternative Energy:  History and Prospects
Steven E. Jones
Emeritus Professor of Physics

Physicist Harvey Fletcher at age 94 wrote a notarized affidavit affirming that he had examined a device invented by Henry Moray of Salt Lake City:
"The device was contained in a small wooden box... which I, personally, inspected... The electrical load...consisted of 12 clear 75 Watt 100 Volt light bulbs and a 500 Watt electric flat iron... I did not know how the device functioned and I do not know today, but I do know that it did function for the several hours of time that I observed it.  I could discern no batteries, and could observe no other known methods of inducing electric power into the box or its loads."
  What is this mysterious device and what happened to it and the inventor?  Are there others like it today?

Throughout my career as a physicist, I have sought for alternative energy sources for mankind.
My principle conclusions on metal-catalyzed ("cold") fusion have been experimentally validated just as discoveries of our team regarding muon-catalyzed fusion were replicated and verified.  However, those fusion yields are currently too small to have practical application for power generation.  Twenty years ago, I developed a Solar Funnel Cooker and offered it free to all, including hundreds of working models which I sent throughout the world.  That invention certainly works.  But the class of Moray devices intrigues me more...

Please email me to discuss your proposed device entry:  emdevice12@yahoo.com .   Let’s empower the people of our planet (rather than the super-wealthy) and start a New Renaissance! 

Thanks!

Example devices that could be entered -- if your build meets the criteria for at least the Silver Eagle prize (some I’ve been working on, too):

QuoteThane Heins' BiTT and variants; Gabriel device.   Steve Mark TPU.   Hendershot Device.  Dr. Henry Moray Device.   Alfred Hubbard Device.   Hans Coler Device.   Daniel McFarland Cook Coil.  AVEC â€"type Device.  Magnacoaster-type.  Kapandaze device.   Edwin Gray device.   Don Smith/ Zilano device.   Electret device. Stubblefield coils.     Turtur transformer.   Testakita machine.   'Rotoverters'.
Bedini device.  Brown's resonant battery.  Seiko 'G-Strain' Amplifier.  Monopole Mobius coil.   Joule Thief / sj1 - style circuits.    Robert Adams device.   Muller/Romero device.  Tesla-Brandt /Matt Jones switches.   Rossi's E-Cat.   Floyd 'Sparky' Sweet's device.   Jim Watson device.   Peter Daysh Davey device.    John Searle device.   Dr Stiffler device.   Joseph Longo's Plasma Converter.
Thanks to Deep Cut (Gary) for making the list (which I’ve edited).

Summary:  Three 1-ounce Golden Eagle coins and up to 120 1-oz Silver Eagle prizes are hereby offered, to encourage inventors and builders to join me in the pursuit of “New Renaissance” energy to EM-power the good folks of our planet.  

Quote from: Arius A. Nowak on November 05, 2011, 06:13:41 AM
I think You should send this coins to Y.S. Potapov from Moldova.
His VHG's was carefully checked in Los Alamos 15 y. ago.
All You have to do for, is to write to Laboratory to obtain this old papers.
When You are US citizien, You are ought to do it after Pact of Freedom
Information.
In attach, one of documents about from russian TSAGI -Central State Institute for Aerodynamical Study.
Heil!
www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10403.0

Interesting, but these prizes are offered for working devices and tests TODAY, not based on earlier reports.
Now, someone might want to get the reports you mention (I don't read Russian, in your PDF) and Build a device for testing.  That would be great.
If I were basing the prizes on PAST reports, it would be a different matter -- and Henry Moray would get one!

That's super that the doctor is offering free Gold Coins for Overunity Devices.

Quote from: FatBird on November 06, 2011, 07:08:26 AM
That's super that the doctor is offering free Gold Coins for Overunity Devices.

Thanks, Fatbird.


OK, I’m active on several forums as well as getting PMs regarding the concept of a New Renaissance and the New Renaissance Prizes.    Some general responses follow:

  I’m a lay leader in my local church and I will be honest and tell you what I find about your device and help you all I can to get it out to PEOPLE.  (If your main interest is in MONEY, please reconsider and search your heart regarding greed before you proceed). 

At my home electronics bench I currently employ:
  Two DSO Oscilloscopes (including one that can MULTIPLY V(t) and I(t) to give the POWER waveform), several DMM’s including a Keithley, clamp-on meters,  and three Kill-o-Watt meters, a DC power supply and a Variac.  I have done some calorimetry also â€" which may be the ultimate way to prove high efficiency (power output that is actually measured, over power input).


Since these prizes are to encourage a device that will go out rather freely to bless mankind, I would sign only a non-disclosure agreement with a limited time period.
I would strongly discourage seeking patents.   When Henry Moray sought a patent, his device was actually clobbered by an agent sent by the government (Felix Frazer).   There are stories of other devices receiving a stamp of “Classified” â€" “do not discuss” under threat of jail-time.    We must be wise about these matters and not assume that “they” will help us in our quest for non-fossil-fuel energy sources.

Furthermore, any OU device will almost certainly evolve very rapidly to new and exciting products that would circumvent even the best patents.  There is a better way to proceed.  Here are some brief suggestions regarding how to proceed from working OU device â€"TO- getting this device into homes of individuals and families QUICKLY.

1.   A device is developed in public forums (open source) or privately, to the point where the device produces more actual/measured power out than power in, ie., OU.

ADDED: 1b.   The easier to obtain necessary components and build the device, the better.  Clearly, some devices are much more complicated than others -- such as the RomeroUK device compared to a Thane Heins transformer.

2.   The device should be replicated and thoroughly tested and built by individuals in several countries, while we back off from details in public forums for a while.   Non-exclusive licenses with principal inventors may be appropriate, with royalties to go to the inventors and detailed plans to trusted builders.

3.   On an agreed-upon date, a simultaneous announcement is made by device-builders around the globe, and concerted efforts are made to get into local media.   At this point, the “genie is out of the bottle” and hopefully the innovation will not be stoppable by opposing “powers that be.”

4.   Distributed manufacture continues.  Devices are demonstrated and sold (as “research devices” if needed to avoid regulatory constraints) at a fair profit, with royalties flowing to the inventors.


5.   At some point, Chinese companies will probably jump in and grab the new technology, and make them cheaper… to everyone’s benefit hopefully, in the end.


So, first we develop the “anomalous” power generator, but then we must proceed cautiously/wisely to “EM-power the people” without having the device stomped into the ground by the “powers that be.”

Howdy Dr. Jones,

This is a very altruistic endeavor you are proposing.  I have a similar need to uncouple mankind from fossil fuels, not just to spare the pollution, but also to diversify the sciences.  There are so many other ways to unlock useful energies from nature that are not visible, or tangible.  Much in the way radio works, invisible waves carry information around the globe, Tesla and Moray understood the ineffable electromagnetic fields produced by the Sun.  This I believe was their source for "free" energy.  When it does finally become understood we will find that there is really nothing free to be had, rather it was an unknown source of energy.  Moray's device works very much like a Radio Receiver, in that it is a detector circuit which can rectify extremely high frequencies.  Also it was a very large diode, so significant currents could be rectified, enough to run light bulbs and heaters.  The frequencies that I am referring to are in the range of a Terahertz.

Moray was second only to Tesla.  Tesla understood these electromagnetic currents produced by the Sun better than anyone yet.  His Radiant Energy Receiver used tubes and rectifiers to make a resonant circuit which could oscillate at these extremely high frequencies, a thousand times that of radar.  Tesla made this look simple, he was that good.  All of us are trying to catch up to these giants of science.

So, I do have a partiality to Gold Eagles, and I would love to have them, need more funding for my research.  But what if I prove that there really is nothing free to be had?  What if what we consider to be "free" energy is just energy from an unknown source?  I do have a number of endeavors in progress, and some, if they work, would be considered "free" energy, but I don't know if I can agree with that.  I have come to learn, that even the most mysterious energies have a logical source, but they defy the senses, and the intellect, until sufficient time and research are spent to fully understand said energies.  Having said that it may be that no one can qualify to meet your criteria for a "free" energy device, and you will probably get to keep the coins for yourself...

Good luck in your endeavor...

Thanks for comments!
z.monkey -- we're on pretty much the same page:

Quote from: z.monkey on November 10, 2011, 10:58:34 AM
Howdy Dr. Jones,

This is a very altruistic endeavor you are proposing.  I have a similar need to uncouple mankind from fossil fuels, not just to spare the pollution, but also to diversify the sciences.  There are so many other ways to unlock useful energies from nature that are not visible, or tangible.  Much in the way radio works, invisible waves carry information around the globe, Tesla and Moray understood the ineffable electromagnetic fields produced by the Sun.  This I believe was their source for "free" energy.  When it does finally become understood we will find that there is really nothing free to be had, rather it was an unknown source of energy.  Moray's device works very much like a Radio Receiver, in that it is a detector circuit which can rectify extremely high frequencies.  Also it was a very large diode, so significant currents could be rectified, enough to run light bulbs and heaters.  The frequencies that I am referring to are in the range of a Terahertz.

Moray was second only to Tesla.  Tesla understood these electromagnetic currents produced by the Sun better than anyone yet.  His Radiant Energy Receiver used tubes and rectifiers to make a resonant circuit which could oscillate at these extremely high frequencies, a thousand times that of radar.  Tesla made this look simple, he was that good.  All of us are trying to catch up to these giants of science.

So, I do have a partiality to Gold Eagles, and I would love to have them, need more funding for my research.  But what if I prove that there really is nothing free to be had?  What if what we consider to be "free" energy is just energy from an unknown source? I do have a number of endeavors in progress, and some, if they work, would be considered "free" energy, but I don't know if I can agree with that.  I have come to learn, that even the most mysterious energies have a logical source, but they defy the senses, and the intellect, until sufficient time and research are spent to fully understand said energies.  Having said that it may be that no one can qualify to meet your criteria for a "free" energy device, and you will probably get to keep the coins for yourself...

Good luck in your endeavor...

"Energy from an unknown source" -- just what the prizes are for!  to encourage this type of "unknown source" research.
Let's get that straight.  I don't use the term "Free Energy" much, I try to avoid it, because of the confusion you mention. 

No, I think we will find eventually the source of the "novel energy" -- and I prefer to use the terms "Moray-type devices" (since he was arguably one of the first to develop one of these) or "novel energy" (NE) or even "New Renaissance"  devices. 

@microcontroller -- agreed that oil will peak and fall, since it is a finite resource.  BUT -- with a NE device, we may actually SUPPLANT oil to a large extent (and drive the price down for a while?)  BEFORE it runs out...  let's think about that!

Arius -- I don't expect everyone to trust me, or you, but look -- my work on Solar Funnel Cookers, which I've sent around the world using my own funds mostly -- should demonstrate that I'm really interested in getting energy to the FAMILIES of the world.  I'm not seeking the beaucoup bucks here -- rather to get this to families and not into the hands of the control-freak elite.

My own research is focusing on what is called the "Thane Heins effect", or the "delayed-Lenz effect."  This can be achieved in two ways currently:

1.  A motor-generator with control of the RPM's
2.  A transformer approach, with control of frequency of the input voltage on the primary.'

  Here, I feel like I'm starting to understand the Physics a bit, though still climbing the learning curve.  I personally prefer the solid-state approach, #2, no moving parts.

  So -- assuming some of you are likewise interested, let me point you to a series of youtube vids that describe both approaches 1&2 -- OverunityGuide (OUG) does a great job IMO in these vids, and they have been archived by my friend Gary (DeepCut), today.  I have just reviewed the 7 vids by OUG on this subject, and found more enlightment after viewing some a second time.  The last (#7) is my favorite, and this will also get you the list:

OUG ARCHIVE 7. MOT Microwave Oven Transformer Delayed Lenz Experiment. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGQhwSDDCQY&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

The attachment screen-shot is from OUG's vid, to show the microwave-oven transformer he used.  Cool -- basically off the shelf.  Of course, he needed a signal generator to get up to 950 Hz on the input, to get the delayed Lenz effect. 

I'd love to see such an off-the-shelf Xfo that gave the delayed Lenz effect at 60 Hz (or 50 Hz, Europe etc).  THEN just about anyone could do this...  Note that OUG is not now claiming OU, just the delayed Lenz effect.

  I finished my first Thane-type hand-wound transformer today, played with it until I blew the fuse on my Variac... :(   Oh, well, fuses are cheap.

@z.monkey -- to clarify a bit more,

QuoteI would define a "novel energy" (NE) device that has merit for science and for society as follows -- here are my criteria at this time:

1.  Energy from a non-conventional source.  This excludes:  fossil fuels and biomass burning, solar (including wind and wave power), geothermal, nuclear fission or fusion (although I should not exclude cold fusion -- but see point 3).  It does not exclude:  earth's gravitational or magnetic fields, galactic magnetic fields.  Even currently unknown sources are allowable -- and sought.

This is quoted from my post over at OUR.com, posted back in March 2010.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=762.msg14477#new

Anyway, I hope you can see that I AGREE with you 100% that in time the source of the "novel energy", where it COMES FROM, will be found out.  Let's hope so! 

That discovery (Nobel-prize level I suppose) would or should allow us to further tap into the energy supply of the Universe...  My guess FWIW, so-called "dark energy."

Quote from: JouleSeeker on November 10, 2011, 11:28:12 PM
My own research is focusing on what is called the "Thane Heins effect", or the "delayed-Lenz effect."

Thank you for the elucidation.  I have explored this phenomena pretty thoroughly.  In mundane science this would be called Back-EMF, or the effect of an inductor discharging its field with an instantaneous spike of voltage, known to pop driver transistors.  However this phenomena is complicated by several factors, some of which are mysterious.  The design of the inductor is one of those factors.  With a specially designed inductor, some have claimed to achieve an overunity effect.  Joseph Cater has explained, exhaustively, that this can be attributed to the decay, or fission, of what he terms soft particles, or soft electrons.  One device that allegedly exploits this concept is the Hubbard Generator.  A unique construction, much like a transformer, attracts and stores these soft particles, and then hastens their annihilation with alternating magnetic fields, thus causing the disintegration of said soft particles, and creating an energy gain.

A soft particle lies in the middle ground between energy and solid matter.  All matter starts as energy, and is expelled from stars.  This energy travels huge distances before it slows down, and eventually coalesces into a tiny bits of matter.  These tiny bits of matter aggregate into the tiniest bits of subatomic particles, and continue to into grow into photons, electrons, neutrons, protons, elements, etc.  There is a state where these soft particles are venerable, and can be cracked, back into energy, from a semi-solid state, and it is these overunity devices that are exploiting this phenomena.  An exhaustive elucidation is here...

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4255.0

My hypothesis is a lot of these devices that are seeing an overunity effect, are experiencing soft particle fission, and an energy gain because the quasi-solid matter is being reduced to energy by the fluctuating magnetic fields.  This may also be the case with cold fusion, and experimenters are misinterpreting soft particle fission, as atomic fusion.  Now think about this carefully.  I am proposing that there is another state of matter that is transitory, between energy and solid matter, and that it is fissionable, and this can be done with a mundane device, such as a transformer, or better a specialized device, such as the Hubbard Generator.

I spent years postulating this theory, and came to the conclusion that I cannot afford to develop it...  Big Sigh...

So I went chasing another set of sub-atomic physics, SuperLight.  Basically explained as the phenomena caused by the perpendicular reaction of Light, supplied by our local Star, and SuperLight, supplied by the Galactic Core, which in essence causes matter to puff up, be animated, and energetic.  It may be the reason that life is possible.  Furthermore it is the reason for phenomena like electric current, and magnetic flux.  I know, this borders on the Metaphysical, but when you work in theoretical science, you must expand your mind into these areas, otherwise you will not be able to innovate.  Superlight theory took me to places that I could not fathom before, way beyond Cater's theories.  It also gave me new appreciation for Moray's and Tesla's work.  After this I was able to replicate Tesla's Polyphase Alternator, and it works...

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9220.msg296156#msg296156

http://scientilosopher.blogspot.com/2011/10/diamag-test-platform.html

SuperLight theory also gave me impetus to re-explore the magnet motor.  When I re-examined the physics of magnets with respect to SuperLight theory, I can see that the magnets are rectifying the extremely high electromagnetic frequencies produced by the Sun.  Magnets are much more than the mundane bits of sticky metal they are pawned off as being.  They are receiving, rectifying, and retransmitting the extremely high electromagnetic frequencies that are produced in the Sun.  They are a source of unlimited, never ending power.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9656.msg303855#msg303855

http://scientilosopher.blogspot.com/2011/11/uabmm2-new-mount.html

So, I hope my little dissertation has given you some additional hope for a clean, exotic energy future.  Its been a long road to this place and I don't see an end to this road soon.  I don't think I'll have a viable solution within the time frame of your contest.  But, I'll keep working toward that end.  I have had some successes this year, and that is encouraging.  But, as you know, research is fueled by funding, and oil companies don't give grants to wacka-doodle researchers like me...

Hi joule seeker

my 2 cents and questions about the fantastic work of Thane Heins

good luck at all

laurent


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45M4mCKrxTM

z.monkey - wrote:

QuoteA soft particle lies in the middle ground between energy and solid matter.  All matter starts as energy, and is expelled from stars.  This energy travels huge distances before it slows down, and eventually coalesces into a tiny bits of matter.  These tiny bits of matter aggregate into the tiniest bits of subatomic particles, and continue to into grow into photons, electrons, neutrons, protons, elements, etc.  There is a state where these soft particles are venerable, and can be cracked, back into energy,

etc.

Quite a theory!  Using the scientific method like Galileo and Newton -- we will seek for experiments to check/verify our hypotheses. 
That is, once one forwards an idea such a "soft particles" (above), the NEXT step must be to come up with some experiment to verify/quantify their existence.  That means, there must be a way to MEASURE the predicted effect. Without measurements, without experiments, you have mere speculation, no solid data to hang your hat on.

Can you propose an experiment to MEASURE and establish the reality of "soft particles"? 


Now this idea is also interesting:

QuoteMagnets are much more than the mundane bits of sticky metal they are pawned off as being.  They are receiving, rectifying, and retransmitting the extremely high electromagnetic frequencies that are produced in the Sun.  They are a source of unlimited, never ending power.

Once you have a working device, one way to check your theory is to "turn off" the device by restricting the in-flow of energy.  If you can demonstrate BY EXPERIMENTS that th energy comes from "the extremely high electromagnetic frequencies that are produced in the Sun." -- then you have something.  But -- I hope you agree -- Experiments are needed to check your theoretical ideas.
Now, once we have a "novel" form of energy - then we can find out the true source of that energy (via experiments).  It may take some time.  IMO.

@woopy -- just looking at your vid and some vids by Thane -- will have to get back to your later.  Thanks for making the video!

Quote from: JouleSeeker on November 12, 2011, 12:50:00 AM
Can you propose an experiment to MEASURE and establish the reality of "soft particles"?

All those inductor based overunity devices are the experiments.  The mysterious energy gains, or the Overunity Effect, is caused by the fission of soft particles.  Many people have worked on this, but they don't use the same terms, and there is no standardization.  Wilhelm Reich called it Orgone Energy.  The Chinese call it Chi.  Early Meso-Americans called it Pranna.  There are other terms, like Manna, Od, Bions, and Joseph Cater calls it the Awesome Life Force.  So, yeah there are many experiments out there, many people struggling to understand this mysterious bio-electric force.  I have done many experiments myself, but don't really have any quantitative data to give you.  So maybe it is something that I could work towards, and don't have any short term solutions there...

Quote from: JouleSeeker on November 12, 2011, 12:50:00 AM
Once you have a working device, one way to check your theory is to "turn off" the device by restricting the in-flow of energy.

As far as I know there is no way to shield these energies, they permeate everything.  But that is also something I would have to work toward, again no short term solution...

The Soft Particle Theory and the SuperLight Theory are just that, theories.  Soft Particles are my best guess at what is causing the Overunity Effect.  I do have projects in progress to try and add some tangible phenomena to the theories, but they are big work and go very slowly.  I can hope that the cumulative effects of many people working toward these answers will have a synergistic effect, and somehow exponentiate the understanding of these mysteries.  Like the Hundredth Monkey Effect, but for electrical researchers and not monkeys...

Hi Joule Seeker

Now that i think to understand better the BITT from Thane Heins. i tried to find an aplication with a windturbine proposal.

If i have understood right, the Bitt would really improve the efficiency of a windmill system, and of course of all other AC powered systems.

It seems too good to be true, isn'it?

I tried to measure the voltage and current of my primary with my scope . But when i connect the ground of the scope i get a big bang (fired the fuse of the grid by using my VARIAC  >:(). I wonder if i connect the main scope probe to the phase of the variac and the ground of the scope to the neutral of the variac, i can measure without danger.
I need to measure those values to see if this fence wire (isolated ) core can work properly with my very crude BITT proto. Because if it works it is very cheap and easy to do. But perhaps we need high grade core material ??
Any proposal ?

I wonder if this subject is at the right place here, or if it should be moved to your other thread ?

Anyway good luck at all

Laurent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNVdVrny8s4

Thanks for your comment, Z.monkey.  I think we agree, the key is to first get working devices (hence the "New Renaissance Prizes"), THEN figure out where the energy is coming from via experiments.  At least, that's my approach.

You're a good man, Woopy --

Quote from: woopy on November 12, 2011, 07:42:51 AM
Hi Joule Seeker

Now that i think to understand better the BITT from Thane Heins. i tried to find an aplication with a windturbine proposal.

If i have understood right, the Bitt would really improve the efficiency of a windmill system, and of course of all other AC powered systems.

It seems too good to be true, isn'it?

I tried to measure the voltage and current of my primary with my scope . But when i connect the ground of the scope i get a big bang (fired the fuse of the grid by using my VARIAC  >:(). I wonder if i connect the main scope probe to the phase of the variac and the ground of the scope to the neutral of the variac, i can measure without danger.
I need to measure those values to see if this fence wire (isolated ) core can work properly with my very crude BITT proto. Because if it works it is very cheap and easy to do. But perhaps we need high grade core material ??
Any proposal ?

I wonder if this subject is at the right place here, or if it should be moved to your other thread ?

Anyway good luck at all

Laurent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNVdVrny8s4

Yes, I agree this discussion on Thane's BiTT should go to my "other thread" as you say -- it's over here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10773.945

That thread for discussion of particular experiments like the BiTT and the Joule Thief; this thread related more particularly to the New Renaissance Prizes.  So -- moving over to that thread now.

  OK, I've listened to the community's feedback and I'm making a big  change in the “prizes” (post #1 above).  I've sold one of the golden Eagles and a bunch of the silver Eagles and with that cash (remember its from my alt-energy-loving father) I'm going to support active novel-energy research.    In fact, I've had proposals coming my way already and so It has begun.  Here it is in a nutshell:

1.   Turns out support is going to several places already, and I'm happy to send grants to Washington state, California, Phillipines, Utah, Oklahoma...

2.   Grants are running around $300 or so and I wish I could do more.  Perhaps someday...

3.   One recipient emailed as follows:

QuoteHi Steven,

THANK YOU !
I must say, the belief you are showing in myself and in the community is a wonderful thing. We know there are undisclosed energy sources and we are finding them (perhaps for a second time or more in history)...so this is a quest to find, not only a hope of finding.
Your generosity is greatly appreciated and I fully intend to upgrade, replace and enhance future experiments with the grant.

4.   If you will send me a brief proposal of energy research you'd like to do (or are doing), and how you seek to help humanity with it â€" then I will consider it fairly and see what I can do.   Send by December 10th please, and I'll reply a few days after that.  Written -- great; or video or however you wish. 

5.   You may know someone who is perhaps too “shy” to send a request yet is deserving; let me know would you?
6. Let me provide an example of what I'm looking for â€" real experimental progress is much preferred over “theory” without prototype or model: http://merlib.org/node/6376 (http://merlib.org/node/6376)   

7.   Les is really doing things, day by day, and is one of the first recipients of a Silver Eagle prize to encourage him â€" along with Slider (thanks for your work, too, Slider!).  Both are very deserving and doing great experimental work, with an eye on serving humanity.  I expect that more Silver Eagles will be given out (see first post for details).

8. There are many examples of diligent experimental work.  I so appreciate the writings and/or videos of lidmotor, lasersaber, nul-pts, Armagdn03, xee2, itsu, Ouguide â€" and so many others. One more example-- that is very well done IMHO:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQdcwDCBoNY)

9.  Some would benefit from a humble $300 “no strings attached” bonus, evidently from the responses so far received, and so I'm glad to stretch the “prizes” as far as I can by turning them into “no-strings grants.”

10.   Two Gold Eagles remain to provide a humble reward or rewards to measure-able OU, as specified in the first post in this thread.

I will also do my best with available time to help this energetic community to get successful devices out to families world-wide (with a fair profit to inventors and builders) â€" and not to be squashed by globalist corporations or whatever.

       I'd like to do what I can to encourage the community to make a “final push to success” in the next few months.  Together, we can do this.  At the refining and prototyping stage, I expect many of us will chip in and also turn a fair return to essentially all contributors â€"with particular royalties, I expect, to the main inventor(s).


  Working together, we can both achieve novel energy and get these devices out to families and communities for the benefit of mankind.

  If you wish to write me, please use regular email or snail-mail as follows:

1.  EMDevice12@yahoo.com
OR

2.  Steven E Jones
     PO Box 325
     Spring City, UT 84662
     USA

A week ago, I had dinner with three very insightful energy researchers.  A great time for the four of us (and wives) to be together and to share notes on our work -- and our play!  Energy research should be fun.

I recall that Timothy said that he enjoyed the building and tinkering, but that he had not PRAYED for particular help in his energy research.  He was going to do so.  I also believe in prayer -- and IF you do, "Don't forget to pray.. "  as the hymn says.

BTW, my idea of fun for today is to join a Joule-Thief variant circuit, which converts DC to AC, to coupled LC circuits ... and take some measurements of input and output power.   We'll see!

Thanks, and best wishes to all.

AT EF, Monsieur M brought up the Kickstart program-- and I think this may be a good suggestion for INDIVIDUAL projects, seeking support for a project in the FE field. One for which there is no problem with prior patents or copyrights, which could very well get a guy in trouble with the "Terms of Service" fine print (see below).

One might not mention the terms FE or even OU, but rather something like "Joule Ringer for long lasting  light production"  or "new type of resonant transformer"...  Certainly you would not wish to claim that OU was required for a "successful" project.   The deliverable might be an actual LED-lighting Joule Ringer, or a report on how it could be used and how long the light(s) glow.

Here are notes on the Kickstart program, legalese (which I take as caveats), http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use


  Quote:

Third Party Intellectual Property â€" Copyright Notifications Kickstarter respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our users to do the same. Kickstarter may, in appropriate circumstances and at its discretion, terminate the accounts of users who infringe the intellectual property rights of others. Kickstarter will remove infringing materials in accordance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act if properly notified that content infringes copyright.

Further,
. Quote:

..you shall not (and shall not permit any third party to) either (a) take any action or (b) upload, download, post, submit or otherwise distribute or facilitate distribution of any content on or through the Service, including without limitation any User Submission, that: * infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, right of publicity or other right of any other person or entity or violates any law or contractual duty; * you know is false, misleading, untruthful or inaccurate; [etc]

That is, if someone claims you are infringing their intellectual property rights, or infringing on a patent or trade secret (etc) -- Kickstarter will very probably terminate your account. 

Further:
  Quote:

Company reserves the right to (i) remove, edit or modify any Content in its sole discretion, including without limitation any User Submissions, from the Site or Service at any time, without notice to you and for any reason (including, but not limited to, upon receipt of claims or allegations from third parties or authorities relating to such Content or if Company is concerned that you may have violated the Terms of Use), or for no reason at all and (ii) to remove or block any User Submissions from the Service.

This is what happens next:

  Quote:

Company may terminate your access to all or any part of the Service at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice, effective immediately, which may result in the forfeiture and destruction of all information associated with your membership. If you wish to terminate your account, you may do so by following the instructions on the Site. Any fees paid hereunder are non-refundable.

And furthermore:
Quote:

QuoteThough Kickstarter cannot be held liable for the actions of a Project Creator, Project Creators are nevertheless wholly responsible for fulfilling obligations both implied and stated in any project listing they create. Kickstarter reserves the right to cancel a project listing and refund all associated members' payments at any time for any reason. Kickstarter reserves the right to remove a project listing from public listings for any reason.

an "alt energy kickstarter type" site is already being worked on...
http://www.overunity.com/11296/a-social-network-for-free-energy/msg297346/#msg297346
i doubt you will ever see it in action here, stephan is busy making money off advertisements, i doubt he wants to change his business model...


as a side note, comments like this:

Quote from: JouleSeeker on November 26, 2011, 09:29:55 AM
I recall that Timothy said that he enjoyed the building and tinkering, but that he had not PRAYED for particular help in his energy research.  He was going to do so.  I also believe in prayer -- and IF you do, "Don't forget to pray.. "  as the hymn says.

don't do your overall credibility (as a scientist) any good...
prayer: how to do nothing and still think you're helping.

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 27, 2011, 10:19:15 AM
[...]
as a side note, comments like this:

[[Quote from: JouleSeeker on November 26, 2011, 03:29:55 PM
... I also believe in prayer -- and IF you do, "Don't forget to pray.. "...]]

don't do your overall credibility (as a scientist) any good...
prayer: how to do nothing and still think you're helping.

LOL

after all, you'd never find credible scientists like Newton, Maxwell, Faraday, etc. having a personal faith and praying...

  Wilby,

When I refer to prayer, I mean to include meditation.

I realize that not all believe in the usefulness of prayer - but note this statement by one of the greatest scientists of the modern world, Sir Isaac Newton:

QuoteSir Isaac Newton: All my discoveries have been made in answer to prayer.(Perloff, p241.)

(Thanks NP, I posted this post before seeing your related post.  WE're on the same page I believe.)

funny how out of the two separate things i posted, you both respond to the one about your imaginary godfairy and the efficacy of prayer... without offering a single scientific study or even a theory...  nothing but a quote. regardless, you are putting the cart before the horse even attempting to argue the efficacy of prayer. provide a single shred of material evidence and/or a logical proof for the existence of your imaginary godfairy that take requests before you start arguing the efficacy of prayer to said godfairy...

futhermore, quoting newton is kind of disingenuous... he wrote more on occult than science, but he isn't known for his theories on the efficacy of prayer is he? and there is a reason for that... ;)

finally, why is it that the efficacy of prayer is not studied by serious scientists? that's a rhetorical question, but the answer is because they know such a thing is asinine...

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 27, 2011, 09:00:26 PM
funny how out of the two separate things i posted, you both respond to the one about your imaginary godfairy and the efficacy of prayer... without offering a single scientific study or even a theory...  nothing but a quote. regardless, you are putting the cart before the horse even attempting to argue the efficacy of prayer. provide a single shred of material evidence and/or a logical proof for the existence of your imaginary godfairy that take requests before you start arguing the efficacy of prayer to said godfairy...

futhermore, quoting newton is kind of disingenuous... he wrote more on occult than science, but he isn't known for his theories on the efficacy of prayer is he? and there is a reason for that... ;)

finally, why is it that the efficacy of prayer is not studied by serious scientists? that's a rhetorical question, but the answer is because they know such a thing is asinine...

Come on Wilbs, why the need to come down on peoples beliefs in God? You do it a lot. I bet there are more here that believe in God, than there are that do not, as you do not.

And as for there are no good scientists studying prayer and a whole spectrum of religious subjects, is not accurate at all. An untruth. A lie.  Yet you pose it as if it were some sort of proof that God doesnt exist and prayer is useless.

There are 8.7 million results for "scientists study prayer"   Quite a contradiction, no?

Ease up a bit eh?
Mags

Almighty and powerful "W"
Google "Placebo effect" and faith based Healing!


Our Creator has hard wired us to Faith !!


Regardless of the "God" 
Faith is Honored!!


ANY HOO Seeing as How The Almighty and Powerful [and selfrightious arrogant Pr##$]
Has Me On Ignore..
I can Speak as I chose to That No Good $%3@45%#$%6^5&^% Freakin WouldBDrunK


Hugs and Kisses


AAHHHHH What Bliss..............
Chet

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 27, 2011, 09:00:26 PM
[...]
quoting newton is kind of disingenuous... he wrote more on occult than science
[...]

LOL (again!)

you disappoint, Wilby - i thought you were supposed to be the epitome of razor-sharp wit and seeker-out of the 'logical fallacy'!

a 'belief-system' is a belief-system regardless of WHAT is believed

i didn't elaborate above on WHAT the three 'credible' scientists believed


Steven has a belief-system, as do you, as did Newton, and as do i

from the evidence in this thread, it's apparent that one clear difference in approach between Steven's belief-system and yours, is that Steven's is able to co-exist considerately and without confrontation with differing belief systems


i disagree with your earlier statement about Steven's credibility - if anybody is in need of improving their credibility it is you, Mr Wilby


...but then, that's why we enjoy your posts so much   ;)


PS  "...Newton, Maxwell, Faraday..." - that was a list - not a "quote" 

Quote from: nul-points on November 28, 2011, 02:47:46 AM
LOL (again!)

you disappoint, Wilby - i thought you were supposed to be the epitome of razor-sharp wit and seeker-out of the 'logical fallacy'!

a 'belief-system' is a belief-system regardless of WHAT is believed

i didn't elaborate above on WHAT the three 'credible' scientists believed


Steven has a belief-system, as do you, as did Newton, and as do i

from the evidence in this thread, it's apparent that one clear difference in approach between Steven's belief-system and yours, is that Steven's is able to co-exist considerately and without confrontation with differing belief systems


i disagree with your earlier statement about Steven's credibility - if anybody is in need of improving their credibility it is you, Mr Wilby


...but then, that's why we enjoy your posts so much   ;)


PS  "...Newton, Maxwell, Faraday..." - that was a list - not a "quote"

LOL again indeed...

one more time for the cheap seats... i don't give a whit what newton or maxwell or faraday or anyone else for that matter has to say about imaginary godfairies or praying to imaginary godfairies... and you know as well as i do that newton could never substantiate that statement of his with anything resembling science.

do you have a a single shred of material evidence or a logical proof that prayer works or that your imaginary godfairy exists? no. you don't... so give it up.

you might as well request that people who believe twiddling their thumbs will effect world peace to start twiddling... it will have the same effect. nothing.

are you suggesting that steven's request to pray (a completely unscientific approach) enhances his credibility as a scientist (a rational thinker who uses critical reasoning and logic along with the scientific method)?  ::)

p.s. it's not belief... it's faith. faith in an imaginary godfairy without a single shred of material evidence nor a logical proof is faith.
and faith is a belief without material evidence or a logical proof.
ie: i believe the sun will 'rise' tomorrow. (belief because there is material evidence of a sun. one that has 'risen' every day for all of recorded history.)

Quote from: Magluvin on November 27, 2011, 09:35:11 PM
Come on Wilbs, why the need to come down on peoples beliefs in God? You do it a lot. I bet there are more here that believe in God, than there are that do not, as you do not.

And as for there are no good scientists studying prayer and a whole spectrum of religious subjects, is not accurate at all. An untruth. A lie.  Yet you pose it as if it were some sort of proof that God doesnt exist and prayer is useless.

There are 8.7 million results for "scientists study prayer"   Quite a contradiction, no?

Ease up a bit eh?
Mags

why the need to  talk about your imaginary friend?  i wouldn't tolerate a child in here talking about imaginary friends... why should i tolerate it from an allegedly rational, thinking adult? you don't wanna hear me tell you your friend is imaginary? don't talk about him... or provide a single shred of material evidence and/or a logical proof for your imaginary friend. you bet there are more people here that have faith in imaginary godfairies than not... so what? so because i am surrounded by idiots that have no capacity for critical thinking or reason and logic i should do as they do? do you have any idea how stupid that sounds? do you know what an appeal to popularity is?

i never said what you are suggesting i said... ::) how about not putting words in my mouth and instead attempting to answer (scientifically) the simple questions i posed... once again, do you have a single shred of material evidence and/or  a logical proof for the existence of your imaginary godfairy superhero savior friend? i'll wait...  ;)

8.7 million results... and how many peer reviewed scientific studies did you find that support prayer working?

imaginary friends are for immature minds... grow up a bit eh?

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 28, 2011, 06:05:35 PM
why the need to  talk about your imaginary friend?  i wouldn't tolerate a child in here talking about imaginary friends... why should i tolerate it from an allegedly rational, thinking adult? you don't wanna hear me tell you your friend is imaginary? don't talk about him... or provide a single shred of material evidence and/or a logical proof for your imaginary friend.

i never said what you are suggesting i said... ::) how about not putting words in my mouth and instead attempting to answer (scientifically) the simple questions i posed... once again, do you have a single shred of material evidence and/or  a logical proof for the existence of your imaginary godfairy superhero savior friend? i'll wait...  ;)

8.7 million results... and how many peer reviewed scientific studies did you find that support prayer working?

imaginary friends are for immature minds... grow up a bit eh?

Seems all my life, considering upbringing, I have believed. But its been more recent years(Im 46), that the proofs have been shown to me, in my every day life.

To tell you of them would be a laugh to you, simply because you dont know. But others that do believe would accept them as facts, because they know. ;]

I dont remember you asking for peer reviews on the scientists that study prayer. And of the 8.7 million links, Im sure there are some serious scientists on it.
I will only look to see if there are, if you say you have seen that there are not.  ;]


God has a plan. From the beginning of time (ours), God knew what is to come next year from now, with everything. He planted a seed and God knows every branch, leaf and all that it will go through, to the end, before it was planted.  Hard to believe eh?  ;]


Oh well, I suppose you will just keep on harassing those for using a simple word like "pray" or "prayer", because,  well your just such a nice guy. ;] We appreciate all of it.

Mags

Mags
I have a hard time responding in an appropriate fashion sometimes??
Your comments Burden Me , They are most appropriate................


Thank you for the good example!!


I will keep on trying .......


Chet
PS
And Mr. Wilby ,I apologize  And yes I do Pray for you ,Not because I am  any Better than you
I can assure you I am much worse !!
PPS
Please keep me on ignore [I am not strong enough yet............] [I know you Peek=:]

Quote from: Magluvin on November 28, 2011, 06:34:48 PM
Seems all my life, considering upbringing, I have believed. But its been more recent years(Im 46), that the proofs have been shown to me, in my every day life.

To tell you of them would be a laugh to you, simply because you dont know. But others that do believe would accept them as facts, because they know. ;]

I dont remember you asking for peer reviews on the scientists that study prayer. And of the 8.7 million links, Im sure there are some serious scientists on it.
I will only look to see if there are, if you say you have seen that there are not.  ;]


God has a plan. From the beginning of time (ours), God knew what is to come next year from now, with everything. He planted a seed and God knows every branch, leaf and all that it will go through, to the end, before it was planted.  Hard to believe eh?  ;]


Oh well, I suppose you will just keep on harassing those for using a simple word like "pray" or "prayer", because,  well your just such a nice guy. ;] We appreciate all of it.

Mags

great you have faith in an imaginary friend... why do you feel the need to tell me about him?

yes it would be a laugh... because none of what you would present would qualify as material evidence nor a logical proof. right? ;)

that's because you were busy cherry picking what you wanted to answer and avoiding the rest... ;) i said "serious scientists"... ::) which would involve peer review, wouldn't it?

i am aware of the myths mags... probably more so than you. i did receive my primary education at a private parochial school. however, i embrace logic and reason, so the indoctrination didn't hold... that being said, do you have a single shred of material evidence or a logical proof for this godfairy?

get a billion christians to pray for a single amputee. get them to pray that god regrow that missing limb. this happens to salamanders every day, presumably without prayer; this is within the capacity of god. i find it interesting that people of faith only tend to pray for conditions that are self-limiting... how typical.

i'll pray to the flying spaghetti monster to save your rotten soul... ;)

edit: i'll pray to the flying spaghetti monster to save your rotten soul too chet... i see you posting, but all it says is 'you are ignoring this user'. :)

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 28, 2011, 06:53:06 PM
great you have faith in an imaginary friend... why do you feel the need to tell me about him?

yes it would be a laugh... because none of what you would present would qualify as material evidence nor a logical proof. right? ;)

that's because you were busy cherry picking what you wanted to answer and avoiding the rest... ;) i said "serious scientists"... ::) which would involve peer review, wouldn't it?

i am aware of the myths mags... probably more so than you. i did receive my primary education at a private parochial school. however, i embrace logic and reason, so the indoctrination didn't hold... that being said, do you have a single shred of material evidence or a logical proof for this godfairy?

get a billion christians to pray for a single amputee. get them to pray that god regrow that missing limb. this happens to salamanders every day, presumably without prayer; this is within the capacity of god. i find it interesting that people of faith only tend to pray for conditions that are self-limiting... how typical.

i'll pray to the flying spaghetti monster to save your rotten soul... ;)

edit: i'll pray to the flying spaghetti monster to save your rotten soul too chet... i see you posting, but all it says is 'you are ignoring this user'. :)

Bravo!   ;] Very admirable.  ;]   I will pray for you.   Its my thing.

Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on November 28, 2011, 07:22:28 PM
Bravo!   ;] Very admirable.  ;]   I will pray for you.   Its my thing.

Mags

twiddle your thumbs while you're at it too will ya? ;)

may the flying spaghetti monster (sauce be upon him) bless you with his saucyness and forever touch you with his noodly appendage... ramen.

Nice to have an opinion...............

It doesn't matter what people believe in as long as that belief inspires them to do great things. I believe Dr. Steven Jones is doing a commendable job by offering to reward others at his expense and with his family heirlooms. Steven, your father would be proud and your doing a great service, keep up the good work.

Dreamthinkbuild


I completely agree !!


It is my opinion that men Who believe there is more to this world than meets the eye [and then some]


Men with families and faith [[Not in Pasta]!!
Are much more likely to be the men that change this world ,..............and I do firmly believe we do that work here!!


Chet

firstly, with regard to defending and upholding reason, gawd need not be disproven for theism to be shown to be unreasonable. all that needs to be done is to show that belief in a gawd â€" especially a particular gawd â€" has not been substantiated. similarly, one need not demonstrate the non-existence of martian overlords living below the surface of sweden in order to demonstrate that belief in such a proposition is silly.

secondly, regarding live and let live with regard to religion. i can understand how one would come to this conclusion. however, i don’t think this is something we should just be silent about. the reason being that these beliefs are not simply private personal matters. these beliefs really do affect the way individuals, groups and societies think and behave. religion played massive roles in the following things: defending slavery, motivating and justifying murder, abusive and oppression of gays, women, apostates, nonbelievers, believers of other faith, and other races, motivating and/or justifying terrorism, interfering with scientific research (e.g., stem cell research) and polluting scientific education (creationism, intelligent design), discouraging some from seeking or providing medical treatment or preventative treatments for self, children or others, etc. furthermore, our excusing of the unreason that we call religion has opened the floodgates for either types for other opportunistic attempts to exploit people’s trustworthiness and “openmindedness” â€" e.g., the cult of scientology, homeopathy, psychics, overunity and so on.

the idea that religious beliefs are simply personal is 100% untrue. live and let live is hardly justified when religious communities are consistent offenders and consistently affect people in rationally and morally indefensible ways.


and finally, we DO know prayer doesn’t work...

the templeton foundation sponsored a study (american heart journal 151:4, 2006, 934-42) wherein 1802 coronary bypass patients were divided into 3 groups â€" group 1 received prayers for quick recovery and no complications but did not know it, group 2 (control group) received no prayers, and group 3 received prayers and did know it.

the results were clear cut â€" there was NO DIFFERENCE in the recovery of those who received prayers and those who did not.

interestingly, there WAS a difference between groups 1 and 3 however â€" group 3 patients had significantly more complications (performance anxiety?)

now i agree the study is kind of lame... after all recovering from heart surgery happens all the time. i would prefer to see a study like the one i alluded to earlier with an amputee... but you 'faithers' and i both know that will never happen... right?

I personally never said "Prayer"


I said FAITH ,!!


      P L A C E B O  Effect!!


Every   Pharmaceutical Company and medical research of ANY kind has to address this Faith based Phenomena !!


BTW
That was one of your better posts


Chetty
PS
I did say I'd pray for you [and I do]


PPS
Yes I know
Wilby
Quote:
see you posting, but all it says is 'you are ignoring this user'

I was brought up as a Christian , but these days I tend towards Atheism . Just this week , I read that At least 6 people have died from aids , because church based faith healers told them that they were cured , and they must therefore stop taking medication . I am quite willing to accept that people have religious beliefs , provided that they do not impose them on me . Sadly , wars have been fought in the past and present to "convert " people to a new religion . Religious people do not have a monopoly on being moral and decent . I always say the religion is like a penile erection . Its fine if you keep it to yourself ,but you will not be popular if you go around ramming it down peoples throats .

here is the problem

The creator of this thread used the word pray in 1 post, now look. 1 word and Bart has to come and make a big deal of it. Talk about shoving something down someones throat.

So I suppose in every day life thats what Bart does. Someone out in the street says church and woo hoo, Barts gunna have some fun. In the grocery store, someone says, the word heaven, and Bart gets hungry for the attack.

1 word, and you get the beat down.   Very scientific, and logical.  All you are doing is showing your colors. Not just the fact that you are an atheist, but you are gladly doing the work of Gods opposition.   Theres some truth for ya.

Why dont you make a list of the words you would rather people should leave out of their posts, just to comfort you. Gime a break.  Go read a Bible. Oh, you dont like to read the Bible?  Then maybe you should not read these threads, if it bothers you in the same way.



Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2011, 07:30:25 PM
here is the problem

The creator of this thread used the word pray in 1 post, now look. 1 word and Bart has to come and make a big deal of it. Talk about shoving something down someones throat.

no. here is the problem... someone who says they are a scientist asks for people to remember prayer. and to pray for free energy. ::)

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2011, 07:30:25 PM
So I suppose in every day life thats what Bart does. Someone out in the street says church and woo hoo, Barts gunna have some fun. In the grocery store, someone says, the word heaven, and Bart gets hungry for the attack.

not quite. i rarely engage people who have faith in such asinine things. why? it’s pointless. well, it’s not fully pointless, but it’s a massive amount of work and annoyance â€" and divergence from more enjoyable things â€" for usually very little if any perceptible benefit... the best thing really that could be hoped for in having such discussions is that you simply introduce ideas to people and perhaps, over the course of years and new life experiences the person will come back and reconsider the discussion. i do it here because alt energy gets a bad enough name from the con men and hoaxers we don't need religious zealots adding to the problem.

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2011, 07:30:25 PM
1 word, and you get the beat down.   Very scientific, and logical.  All you are doing is showing your colors. Not just the fact that you are an atheist, but you are gladly doing the work of Gods opposition.   Theres some truth for ya.

speaking of science and logic... i have repeatedly asked you to provide a single shred of material evidence and/or a logical proof for the existence of your imaginary god fairy superhero friend and you continue to avoid doing so with various logical fallacies. how about that for science and logic? ;)
gawd's opposition? ahh more imaginary friends/enemies...  LMFAO

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2011, 07:30:25 PM
Why dont you make a list of the words you would rather people should leave out of their posts, just to comfort you. Gime a break.  Go read a Bible. Oh, you dont like to read the Bible?  Then maybe you should not read these threads, if it bothers you in the same way.

i've read the bible. it's fatally flawed. and yet again you are putting the cart before the horse and engaging in a circular argument. the bible doesn't prove god. in point of fact, you would need to prove the existence of your godfairy first to even come close to validating the holy babble as divinely inspired. and after that you would need to address the paradox of how a perfect being wrote an imperfect book.
PR 30:5 every word of god proves true.
1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, JE 20:7, EZ 14:9 god deceives some of the prophets.
JE 8:8 the scribes (copyists, editors, teachers) falsify the word.
2TH 2:11-12 god deceives the wicked (to be able to condemn them).
(note: not every word of god can prove true if god deceives anyone at all; teaching from the bible cannot be trusted if the scribes falsify the word. in other words, the first reference is mutually exclusive with the other three. thus, the bible cannot be the perfect work of a perfect, all-powerful and loving god since one or more of the above references is obviously untrue.)


so that's a no then, none of you faithers can provide a single shred of material evidence nor a logical proof for your imaginary friend. imagine that...

 ;D hi everyone good day and merry Christmas !!!


Here how simple it is :


"Believing that there is God, means you are just being wise and that means you are using your head,


WHY?!!!!!


Because Let say for example if a believer and a non believer died  at the same time and if in case there is really no God then its okay for both of them cause nothing will happen to them right?"


Now BUT! if in case There is God and he said believe that there is God and believe that JESUS is God, for the punishment of non believer's is ETERNAL PUNISHMENT IN HELL.


Now again!!! Who do you think is wise???

use you're two head very wisely buddy.  ;D


VERY SIMPLE ARITHMETIC YOU CANNOT DANCE!!!  LOL  ;D  HAHAHAHAHAHAHA JOKE




ITS LIKE FREE ENERGY, HITTING TWO, THREE, FOUR....  BIRDS IN ONE PULSE  ;D



GOT IT?!!!! LOL  ;D

 

Quote from: Tito L. Oracion on November 30, 2011, 07:59:57 PM
;D hi everyone good day and merry Christmas !!!


Here how simple it is :


"Believing that there is God, means you are just being wise and that means you are using your head,


WHY?!!!!!


Because Let say for example if a believer and a non believer died  at the same time and if in case there is really no God then its okay for both of them cause nothing will happen to them right?"


Now BUT! if in case There is God and he said believe that there is God and believe that JESUS is God, for the punishment of non believer's is ETERNAL PUNISHMENT IN HELL.


Now again!!! Who do you think is wise???

use you're two head very wisely buddy.  ;D


VERY SIMPLE ARITHMETIC YOU CANNOT DANCE!!!  LOL  ;D  HAHAHAHAHAHAHA JOKE




ITS LIKE FREE ENERGY, HITTING TWO, THREE, FOUR....  BIRDS IN ONE PULSE  ;D



GOT IT?!!!! LOL  ;D

ahhh the well worn and ohh so flawed "pascal's wager"  ::)
there are a lot of problems with this argument...

the first problem lies in the implicit yet unstated assumption that we already know which god we should believe in. that assumption, however, is not necessary to the argument, and thus the argument itself does not explain which religion a person should follow... this can be described as the “avoiding the wrong hell” dilemma. if you happen to follow the right religion, you may indeed “go to heaven and avoid hell.” however, if you choose the wrong religion, you’ll still go to hell.

the thing missed by so many who use this argument is that you cannot “bet” on the general concept of “theism.” you have to pick specific doctrines... theism is just a broad construct which includes all possible god-beliefs and, as such, does not exist absent specific theologies. if you are going to really believe in a god, you have to believe in something â€" which means picking something... if you pick nothing, then your “belief” is literally empty and you remain an atheist. so, a person who picks risks picking the wrong god and avoiding the wrong hell.

a second problem is that it isn’t actually true that the person who bets loses nothing. if a person bets on the wrong god, then the true gawd (tm) just might punish them for their foolish behavior. what’s more, the true gawd (tm) might not mind that people don’t bother believing in it when they use rational reasons â€" thus, not picking at all might be the safest bet... you just cannot know.

also, some choices do indeed come with large risks. many have died because they trusted in prayer rather than medicine. others have perished due to the handling of poisonous snakes and the drinking of lethal liquids because zombie jesus said they would be able to do so without harm... thus, the choice of pseudoscientific and mystical beliefs can carry very negative consequences.

a third problem is the unstated premise that the two choices presented are equally likely. it is only when two choices are equal in probability that it makes sense to go with the allegedly “safe bet.” however, if the choice of a god is revealed to be a great deal less likely than the choice of no god, then god ceases to be the “safe bet.” or, if both are equally likely, then neither is actually a “safe bet”...

one final problem is the conclusion of the argument, where a person decides to believe in a god because it is the choice that offers the most benefits and least dangers. however, this requires that the god in question not mind that you believe in it merely in order to gain entrance to heaven and/or to avoid punishment in hell.

but this means that this god isn’t actually a just or fair god, since a person’s eternal fate is not being decided upon based on their actions, but merely on their decision to make a pragmatic and selfish choice...

but that's logic and reason... something you faithers don't wholly embrace. you only use logic and reason when it doesn't make you uncomfortable, if at all. i wonder if russell had newton in mind when he wrote this:

"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."     Bertrand Russell


now i have better things to do than argue with crazy... you guys present some material evidence and/or a logical proof for your godfairy and i might be willing to listen. until then you have my pity.

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 30, 2011, 08:17:06 PM
ahhh the well worn and ohh so flawed "pascal's wager"  ::)
there are a lot of problems with this argument...

the first problem lies in the implicit yet unstated assumption that we already know which god we should believe in. that assumption, however, is not necessary to the argument, and thus the argument itself does not explain which religion a person should follow... this can be described as the “avoiding the wrong hell” dilemma. if you happen to follow the right religion, you may indeed “go to heaven and avoid hell.” however, if you choose the wrong religion, you’ll still go to hell.

the thing missed by so many who use this argument is that you cannot “bet” on the general concept of “theism.” you have to pick specific doctrines... theism is just a broad construct which includes all possible god-beliefs and, as such, does not exist absent specific theologies. if you are going to really believe in a god, you have to believe in something â€" which means picking something... if you pick nothing, then your “belief” is literally empty and you remain an atheist. so, a person who picks risks picking the wrong god and avoiding the wrong hell.

a second problem is that it isn’t actually true that the person who bets loses nothing. if a person bets on the wrong god, then the true gawd (tm) just might punish them for their foolish behavior. what’s more, the true gawd (tm) might not mind that people don’t bother believing in it when they use rational reasons â€" thus, not picking at all might be the safest bet... you just cannot know.

also, some choices do indeed come with large risks. many have died because they trusted in prayer rather than medicine. others have perished due to the handling of poisonous snakes and the drinking of lethal liquids because zombie jesus said they would be able to do so without harm... thus, the choice of pseudoscientific and mystical beliefs can carry very negative consequences.

a third problem is the unstated premise that the two choices presented are equally likely. it is only when two choices are equal in probability that it makes sense to go with the allegedly “safe bet.” however, if the choice of a god is revealed to be a great deal less likely than the choice of no god, then god ceases to be the “safe bet.” or, if both are equally likely, then neither is actually a “safe bet”...

one final problem is the conclusion of the argument, where a person decides to believe in a god because it is the choice that offers the most benefits and least dangers. however, this requires that the god in question not mind that you believe in it merely in order to gain entrance to heaven and/or to avoid punishment in hell.

but this means that this god isn’t actually a just or fair god, since a person’s eternal fate is not being decided upon based on their actions, but merely on their decision to make a pragmatic and selfish choice...

but that's logic and reason... something you faithers don't wholly embrace. you only use logic and reason when it doesn't make you uncomfortable, if at all. i wonder if russell had newton in mind when he wrote this:

"What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way."     Bertrand Russell


now i have better things to do than argue with crazy... you guys present some material evidence and/or a logical proof for your godfairy and i might be willing to listen. until then you have my pity.

OH BOY you're really getting very deeply in being an atheism.


You know what buddy, humble your self before God and he will show you his presence and existence that even trillion big bang happen will not accidentally create the perfect formation of your hand, the connection of your eyes into brain and the most convincing that there is God is, one time in history that Jesus lives on earth and that is being testified even the non religious groups like encyclopedia right?. now if still you don't believe, it is now your conscience that will prove what i'm saying is true period.     

Now here's the truth and your chance buddy




You want to go to heaven? hear is the obvious secret.


Start to be humble, accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour, repent and refuse to make sins. i'll bet my soul to that if this is not true.  :)


Love you buddy.  ;)   

Quote from: WilbyInebriated on November 30, 2011, 07:52:16 PM

i rarely engage people who have faith in such asinine things. why? it’s pointless.

True colors shinin through.  ;]

Mags

Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on November 29, 2011, 09:18:12 AM
It doesn't matter what people believe in as long as that belief inspires them to do great things. I believe Dr. Steven Jones is doing a commendable job by offering to reward others at his expense and with his family heirlooms. Steven, your father would be proud and your doing a great service, keep up the good work.

Thank you so much for your support, DreamThinkBuild --it's deeply appreciated.  Seems I missed your comment before some how.

Quick update:
Four silver-Eagle prizes have been awarded -- in addition,  funds granted to support seven researchers (with no strings attached).  Yes, I think my father would be very happy about this, DTB.

Also, I arranged for a Davey sonic boiler device to be tested in France... tests getting underway as we speak.
@all:  thanks, and keep up the good work!