What are the chances of an inventor being silenced by OPEC or any governments if he/she happens to have fabricated a free energy device ?
Interesting how your question (statement) can be looked at; One might think that if someone is saying they have a device, yet the powers know it can not be possible, one could say avoid the issue, don't bring attention to it. Yet it may also be similar to some one screaming 'FIRE' in a crowede shopping mall, all hell breaks out. Therefore you want to set an example that you never shout "Fire' in a public place.
For the real devices (that do or could work), the powers have ample tools to keep it out of the main stream. National Security is just one. Of course the inventor could just be bought out and part of the deal is to say it just did'n work or maybe just drop the whole concept and act like a fool. With ample payment most people would act the part of a fool?
I myself feel that its a mix. Some device are taken in silence, others are taken overtly and others are bought and maybe a few are dumped along with the inventor. This I feel is where you see the men from the boys so to speak. The men know what could really happen and they try to cut a deal, the boys want a name in print and a place in so called energy history.
All devices seem to be geared towards the status quo (control) that are actual working systems, all others are dreams (My Feeling), as it seems they always have a computer model, paper plans, a wet dream or need funding, how may prototype have been seen by people that will stand behind them (Engineers & Scientists)?
It depends on how the inventor goes about it. If the inventor is a very public person, and shows his device at every conference around, he will get attention.
If said inventor is soliciting funds for a manufacturing run, you can at least expect to get a phone call, if not a car idling across the street from your house. If you have several prototypes which you have had independently tested by labs etc, and you show them off, expect to be raided and lose them.
It seems that the only way to really get info like this out, is to give it away. Post full details, and videos, of demos, and instructions on building, materials lists, etc. and so on.. And not just in one place, but many. As many free energy forums as he can find. Then there's nothing "they" can do about it. The instant it happens thousands will download the plans, and even if the sites are taken down, they'll be out.
Quote
I myself feel that its a mix. Some device are taken in silence, others are taken overtly and others are bought and maybe a few are dumped along with the inventor. This I feel is where you see the men from the boys so to speak. The men know what could really happen and they try to cut a deal, the boys want a name in print and a place in so called energy history.
Nope, there haven't been any men yet. But, who's to say what one would do in a situation like that.
I agree with all of what you have said (except) the part of give it to the world. I have been around a number of years and have seen first hand just how this will not work, let me bend your ear for a minute or two.
1. i in 10,000 people would even understand the concept of individualized energy source. First off, most don't want to bother, they want to call the utility company when the power is out, pump the gas rather than make it in the corner closet of their apt.
2. How many people have the scientific or mechanicial ability (NO PUT DOWN TO ANYONE HERE!) that could Build, and Service a complex device?
3. How many people have electronic labs or machine shops to construct a complex precise device?
Now that said, if I were a power that was about to get buried by a new energy source (Utilities, Oil Providers etc.,) or a taxing entity obtaining money from energy sales, what might I do?
One thing is to capitalize on what I said above, build a device and knock a few people off and blame it on a new energy source that causes great harm to the user. Make all kinds of statements that the theory is false. Remember they have the press and airwaves and the (NET).
Have you never heard of thigs being on the net one day and washed the next, it happens (I know for a fact it is possible).
Granted you can come back and say everyone makes a copy, prints it out and tells a friend, even so it would not fly, it just would not. Only a few of use really want this type of energy source. When you see people at the gas pump saying, 'Oh my god how will I feed my children with these high prices', while in the next breath saying, 'Oh its so high, but what can we do about it, guess we just pay it and move on'.
One last thing, when you watch the tv news you hear one weekend that gas has increased 14 cents a gal the last week, the next week you hear relief in sight gas prices down 4 cents for the week. Next week gas up 18 cents. Next day, We have a break in gas price, it came down 2 cents today.
Something say here giving it to the works has major problems?
Hi Ron,
you are right,
but if we can come up with a realworking open license device,
that everybody , who can solder and have a little
electronics experience can build and selll it to his neighbours, there will
be a change...!
Well I wish that after all these years I still held the feeling that this 'Device' could be found and developed, but I do not. Yet I do feel that we can provide devices that can make it possible, yet complex and not something the man off the street or the fell next door will build for all his friends. The device(s) that will come, will be controlled, because they will be complex enough that special machines will be required to construct. Think about it, tuning, balance, shielding, noise, radiation, isn't this a bit beyond the basement developer?
I would like very much to be wrong in my feeling, yet I don't think I am. A whole new culture would be required, new and again REAL education would be required not to mention the dependance on government by the free lunch crowd.
Hope you are right and I am wrong.......
Hello All,
Just here to say a few things. First building a free energy device is not going to be simple. I have over 30 years in machine shop experiance and have a small machine shop to work in. Now, I have been building motors for over five yesrs now, I have used every machine shop no how I have. And yes I think I have a working model that will be over %100 efficient. However not just anyone could build one of these things, even if they had a machine shop. The one I have built is very complicated, and even harder to build.
Now, Say I realeased the plans to the public. Just how many of these things would be built, very few, if any. The news and also the plains would just be forgotten, and everybody would just go back to pumping there gas and bitching about it.
At this point I am about to put this thing on a shelf myself. Trying to convince the generial public that you may have something that will save them money at the pump and for utility bills is almost impossable. The first thing they think of me when I talk about it is that I am a crazy old man and that it cannot be done, if so somebody would have allready come up with it. You know what I mean, I'm just a redneck from Ohio, how can I invent something like this.
I have built a two inch rare earth magnet model (two valve, two rotor) of my invention that has proven to produce over %500 efficiency. But even when proven to people, they say it is still impossable and do not beleive it. How can you win. Almost impossable. I guess at this point the only thing that I can do is build one for my back yard, power my house with it, or maybe build an electric car to drive. However even that takes money that I don't have, and getting money to build with is another thing that is impossable. I am just about to give up.
Later,,,,JackH
The chief weapon of the energy elite is debunking. I wouldn't be surprised if 'they' had a team of folks on the payroll whose only job was to make ANY claim of overunity out to be a total scam. Meanwhile, to even acknowledge the possibility of overunity by a 'mainstream' physicist is to risk total loss of professional credibility. This makes it easy for the energy elite to maintain it's stranglehold on the public as a whole.. just my opinion. ;)
"The news and also the plains would just be forgotten, and everybody would just go back to pumping there gas and bitching about it.
- You are so wrong, Jack. It's only one reason why it can be forgotten - it DOES NOT WORK! There's no one device in the net that really works (even PERENDEV backed up), there're always any excuses, always something wrong, etc.
Hope in your case it's different...
JackH,
QuoteFirst building a free energy device is not going to be simple.
Whom exactly are you speaking for?
QuoteI have over 30 years in machine shop experiance and have a small machine shop to work in. Now, I have been building motors for over five yesrs now, I have used every machine shop no how I have. And yes I think I have a working model that will be over %100 efficient. However not just anyone could build one of these things, even if they had a machine shop. The one I have built is very complicated, and even harder to build.
Now, Say I realeased the plans to the public. Just how many of these things would be built, very few, if any. The news and also the plains would just be forgotten, and everybody would just go back to pumping there gas and bitching about it.
At this point I am about to put this thing on a shelf myself. Trying to convince the generial public that you may have something that will save them money at the pump and for utility bills is almost impossable. The first thing they think of me when I talk about it is that I am a crazy old man and that it cannot be done, if so somebody would have allready come up with it. You know what I mean, I'm just a redneck from Ohio, how can I invent something like this.
I have built a two inch rare earth magnet model (two valve, two rotor) of my invention that has proven to produce over %500 efficiency. But even when proven to people, they say it is still impossable and do not beleive it. How can you win. Almost impossable. I guess at this point the only thing that I can do is build one for my back yard, power my house with it, or maybe build an electric car to drive. However even that takes money that I don't have, and getting money to build with is another thing that is impossable. I am just about to give up.
So you are basicly saying sorry to those that could build it. Are you out for money/fame? You are saying that you have an overunity device that could help at least ONE other person and you are just going to throw it on the shelf and not even attempt to help anyone out? Come on. I think you see the individual as the whole. If you are worried about credit for your device, I don't think you will have to worry about that here. If you are worried about money, then good luck on waiting and keeping it secret till the MIB's show up to offer you money to keep quiet.
Oh well so be it. Its your device. But why would you come to an OU forum and dangle a carrot. Remember, WE are NOT the general public. Invite me over to see it and prove it to me. I am 2 hours away from you in West Virginia. I can GARAUNTEE you I will NOT give away any of your plans or anything about your device. I can bring a camera and you can sort through the pictures. Its yours, and you get the credit. I will be happy to report back to the forum members here that it either works or not.
Drak
I will personally vouch for Jack H. as a good fellow.
To those who immediately jumped on him... maybe that's exactly what he meant. Think about it. Everytime he's posted here, he's answered with people either calling him a scam artist or wanting to come to his house.
Unless Jack has ripped you off - you only look like an ass by wasting your time spouting off at him.
And as far as coming by his house... think about it... would you open yourself up to visits from 'anyone' on the net who has a passing interest in overunity??
But anyhoo....
Jack - I know you may be tired of working on the motor... but what about patenting then valve device??? Any device based on that would pay you a royalty, right?? And with that public... there might be all sorts of good technology that comes out of it. :) Think about the kids.
Jack,
I would love to join with Drak and witness your motor. I can be there it 2 hours given a day or two's notice to schedule it. - just let me know when to be there.
Jake
Elvis
QuoteI will personally vouch for Jack H. as a good fellow.
Nobody has claimed otherwise. He has been nothing but cordial and friendly to me.
QuoteAnd as far as coming by his house... think about it... would you open yourself up to visits from 'anyone' on the net who has a passing interest in overunity??
Yes. Why not? I would have everything to gain and nothing to lose.
Quotepeople either calling him a scam artist or wanting to come to his house.
I have not called Jack a scam artist. I have offered to come to wherever it is his motor is - I don't know if it is at his house. I offered it good faith to do whatever I could to help test the motor. I offered for him to come to my place of business and test the motor here. I offered to meet anywhere in between.
What is important to note here is that people are trying to provide ways for Jack to prove to the world what he is doing.
Offering to help prove his point by witnessing and reporting to everyone else here provides a very substantial step towards credibility. The more people that actually witness the device and test the device, the more likely it is to get traction. The reason I offered is because I live close enough to Jack for it to be practical. Drak does as well. It is not practical for someone to travel from Europe or Australia, when several of us live within 2 hours driving distance of Jack. I travel regularly to withing 30 minutes of where Jack lives.
If Jack's motor is even close to 500%, it would be the easiest thing in the world to convince people of.
Jake
As for the "men in black" theories, I don't believe them. Let's say you own a power company. Someone creates a motor like Jack's, that actually produces more power than it consumes. You buy the motor from Jack for $20,000,000.00. What do you do with the motor?
The conspiracy theorists say you "shelve" the motor, which really makes no sense at all. If the device worked, you build it, use it, and quit spending billions of dollars on mining for coal, transporting coal, building scrubbers for coal plants, dealing with coal waaste, etc., as well as get rid of all of the employees and equipment used to do the activities that you would no longer need. You can still sell the power for the price you are selling today, with almost zero operating costs.
You tell me what the power company would choose to do. I can produce free energy and still sell it, or I can shelve the device and keep digging for coal, transporting coal, burning coal, building scrubbers, hauling away the coal waste, etc.
This is an easy one to figure out. The device doesn't exist, because if it did, it wouldn't have been purchased for $20m and put on a shelf. It would be running and putting the coal mines out of business.
In defense of Jach H., isn't it funny when someone comes across with a reason why he/she may not feel it correct or possible to release a device, they get stomped on by?
I would think that unless someone had something to gain themselves that they would attempt to contact Jack H. in a private way, rather than jump all over him where the world can see. For those FEW people out there that could, would or want such a device, they are indeed in the FEW. The general public will not accept the concept of a non-conventional device until the main stream science team sign on. This will only happen after they die off. They are not going to go down looking like all their years were spend in ignorance. As long as all Universities and large labs obtain federal money, hell will freeze over before this happens.
Only new up and coming scientists can be groomed or directed to a different way of thinking, IF they are exposed before getting that Grad Degree, once that happens its almost impossible to change your way.
As with Jack H., I have been in the active EE field for 42 years, starting with the vaccum tube, I remember when semiconductors started to come out, how I and many my age resisted, we still help out for the big iron xformers and the tube rectifiers. I think what changed the direction was once semi's became available at a good price, you payed a mountain for an iron xformer and tubes were like gold.
I agree, build the device, put it in you back yard, keep quite and be ready when the knock comes on your door, it will. You will be served with a search warrant from the power company, because there is no way your power demand dropped to nothing. Even if you have a chemical device doing the generation, they will take it and insist it was coupled into the grid, taking power from them. If that don't work it will be taken as a hazard, you can not explain how it works in a way that any scientist will back up, so it has to be bad.
Jack H., don't talk about it, build it for you while you can, but be smart in using it. Over time the outlook will change, it has to, although you and I will no longer be here.
Jake,
If I could bring forth a possible senario:
The 'conspiracy' theory version might make sense if the energy companies maintain world control for world government through the use of fossil fuels, and to stop using these would break that strangle hold and cause them to loose power over the nations, spoiling world government control plans. Then the money theory that you bring forth would not be in the best interests of the energy companies anymore. (At least at this time).
The energy companies could continue what they are doing with fossil fuels and when they are ready to make the transition to free energy, they would have all of the devices on the shelf to dominate the market instantly. (Except mine). :)
Quoteisn't it funny when someone comes across with a reason why he/she may not feel it correct or possible to release a device, they get stomped on by?
No, it's not funny.
What is funny is that there have been hundreds if not thousands of people making the same kinds of claims for hundreds of years, with not one device being legitimately and openly shown and validated. There are only supposed successes shrouded in secrecy, with stranger and stranger reasons why they can't produce a working model.
If you believe that I "stomped on" Jack, please show me specifically where and how.
Making an offer publicly puts the terms on record for all to see. This is to protect Jack and me. If I made the offer privately and proceeded to "steal" Jack's idea, there would potentially be no record of my intentions. I stated my offer and intentions publicly in a format that Jack could use in his own defense if I misrepresented myself.
The bottom line is this:
JackH has repeatedly posted that once his patents go through, he will release all technical information re: his motors. Once this happens, I personally would pay jack to build me one if he was willing, after conducting some tests to see that the concept was sound. Jack has stated that he has a way to turn off a permanent magnet, if this is so, that's all I would need to test, the rest is self explanatory. If a few people do this, and his plans are available, all anyone would have to do once the information was out there, if anything happened to jack, is hire an engineering company to make one-up models and sell them to interested parties for cost. Part of the sales agreement would be the promise that they would do the same if one was requested by someone else. A grass roots movement would be impossible to stop, and too easy to start, and restart with different engineering and manufacturing companies. With distributors exponentially growing. A few generations out there would be thousands of people offering this service. Nobody could do anything about it.
One thing about the free energy subculture, is that most of us have vested interest in sticking it to the man, so to speak. If anyting dastardly happened to jack, we could spread this thing like a virus with little or no effort(and take pleasure in doing it). And we wouldn't just be doing it for Jack, we'd be doing it for all the inventors that have "had accidents", in every aspect of this field.
Don't lose heart Jack. It IS possible. We CAN win.
QuoteI personally would pay jack to build me one if he was willing, after conducting some tests to see that the concept was sound.
So you have to see it work? That's a novel concept.
Is there a video clip available showing Jack's motor in action?
I haven't seen any. There are some nice pictures though. First class workmanship. Probably the best looking prototypes I've seen.
Are there any video's of your motor? I would like to see them as well. I saw a small picture of it, but I don't think I've run across video - is there any?
Jake
All to late as I walked into this with my foot in my mouth!
Does JackH have a web site?, I can look at? I do have a little insight to these things.
Jake! I have no bone to pick with you, I used a ? mark, if I had wanted to point you out I would not have held back on directly using your ID. You have as much right as I to what we feel and speak, if you are a 'Put up or Shutup Man' that's fine, but having been there done that, I kind of go with the flow of experience.
Any help on where I can find what sparked all of this would be of help... Thanks.
Quotethey get stomped on by?
Yes, I reread what I wrote last night. I did come across kinda harsh and I appologize for that. Jack, I am not calling you a scam artist. I have just read about SOO many people that have claimed this or that and nothing ever became of it.
QuoteJackH has repeatedly posted that once his patents go through, he will release all technical information...
I did not realize this. To me it sounded like he was just trying to prove it to the wrong people and then just shelving his device. In this case I say, Please don't shelve your device. Complete it, get your patents. If in anyway I can help, let me know. My offer still stands as a witness.
Drak
Jake,
Yes, I took three movie clips of the motor with my camera (quick time .mov format). They are about 15 seconds each or so while it was running. No pictures of the motor starting. (I didn't have enough hands). My device is not very refined or highly developed as it is in it's basic raw form being the first prototype, very 'homemade' and hand made.
I agree with you that Jack has a really fine motor and it looks super too. He is a very nice inventor to talk to as well. I respect him very much. I think that he has something there, and should continue with it and not give up. I wish him every success with it as his motor looks like a gem and probably runs like a top.
My motor is of a different design totally. It is a fractional HP design so far. Only designed to test the principle of the motor, (whether it will run or not, and it did run). I originally made this motor for myself, just to see if I could make a motor that runs on permanent magnets (mostly).
However, the pictures that I took with the camera show the motor operation very openly and that is what I would have a problem with showing at this time... I did not think ahead enough to dress it up and hide the critical parts for showing to the public or an interested party when I took the movies. I was thinking like an inventor and wanted to show how there are not hidden motors, smoking mirrors etc. and showed it all (like a dummy). ::)
I would have to seek legal council first, as to whether an NDA would protect me properly or not, if you want to see the movie/s for evaluation purposes. I may have to obtain a patent on it first or some method of protection and seek legal council before I do show it.
Liberty
QuoteAll to late as I walked into this with my foot in my mouth!
Does JackH have a web site?, I can look at? I do have a little insight to these things.
Jake! I have no bone to pick with you, I used a ? mark, if I had wanted to point you out I would not have held back on directly using your ID. You have as much right as I to what we feel and speak, if you are a 'Put up or Shutup Man' that's fine, but having been there done that, I kind of go with the flow of experience.
Any help on where I can find what sparked all of this would be of help... Thanks.
Ron,
Sorry if I over reacted.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,833.0.html (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,833.0.html) contains a link in the first post to pictures of Jack's motors.
Quote from: jake on June 19, 2006, 02:44:05 PM
QuoteI personally would pay jack to build me one if he was willing, after conducting some tests to see that the concept was sound.
So you have to see it work? That's a novel concept.
I just need proof of the concept, that is all. Don't put words in my mouth, you'll find I don't appreciate it much.
Sorry if I erroneously assumed that "conducting some tests" meant you would see it work. He has already done tests, and he says it works.
I wasn't responding to anyone in paticular when I spoke out for Jack. :) And I also completely understand the frustration we all feel about some of the bullshit devices. Personally I get more frustrated when too much attention is given to the bullshit... as is the case with one certain device that supposedly produces free energy... and a certain someone who is not the inventor... and who does not know how it works, posts parables and rambling essays on the "glory" of free energy and what this device will mean...
Never mind that the damn thing has been around for over 10 years...
But my point is that when people chase riddles from a third party about a dubious device... when some of them are intelligent people that might add something to the right discussion... that pisses me off.
As far as a conspiracy to supress technology... look no further than the demonization of hemp. Did that have anything to do with Hearst wanting to make paper out of his timber? OR DuPont wanting to sell synthetic fiber??
And what about cannabis? Think the drug companies have anything to gain by keeping it illegal??
Another example is the seatbelt laws we have in every state. When regulators told automakers to put airbags in cars (which now they do) - the compromise was to get seatbelt laws passed in all the states. So the automakers lobbied states to pass them.
Or did you think there was a public outcry to institute seatbelt laws??
"We need the OU-machine !!!"
And then ?
Also thought about the social/economical consequences ?
Will be this "OU-machine" easy to reproduce ?
Will be the "OU-m" portable,can it be micro-/macronized produced/
replicated ?
When we get the 1cent Euro-$/KWH challenge,
then we can change the rules -worldwide!
Before this "status quo",there is only "dreaming"/speculation !!!
S
dL
Quote from: jake on June 19, 2006, 06:31:53 PM
Sorry if I erroneously assumed that "conducting some tests" meant you would see it work. He has already done tests, and he says it works.
ASS-U-ME, I don't need to test his device, I just need a magnet and about 8w of power, to test his concept.
Sorry ,Jack H.,for this kind of overunity.com-member-image !
30/5 years of your experimental work against some member-thinking:
You decides how you will entrance with your invention to public,
so probably it will be better to take a "time-out" of this forum !!!
S
dL
Quote from: lancaIV on June 19, 2006, 09:00:08 PM
Sorry ,Jack H.,for this kind of overunity.com-member-image !
30/5 years of your experimental work against some member-thinking:
You decides how you will entrance with your invention to public,
so probably it will be better to take a "time-out" of this forum !!!
S
dL
Don't be dramatic lanca. Nothing is that bad. This is minor squabbling from believers, it's not even resistance. Think of the stuff he will have to weather from the non believers. This forum is, squabbling aside, a safe haven. Sure we get the occasional troll, but for the most part, we're all supportive here. No group larger than one can agree all the time! (Not to mention it's kind of pretentious to apologize for other people. :))
Looks like this thread has deviated a bit from where it started lol. To get a good idea what kind of vested interest governments and corporate world (not just corporate america) have for somethign like a free energy device, read the link in my sig. Peak oil is going to happen, if it hasn't already....things will get worse and worse. We few here recognize the need for a working device NOW...even if the governments and big oil companies don't give a $#*($& about the rest of us. The fact remains... if anyone has a WORKING device...get it patented quick, then give away the information to us here - we can probably help distribute it faster than anyone could imagine :) If we all work together we can make it work.....we have to.