I am working on a hho home heater.
My question is what flame tip to use. Id like to use a liquid cpu cooler system, but fear the flame would melt right through it.
Has anyone experimented with nozzle tips and flame length? I saw one person using a ball inflator tip as a nozzle. The flame was very small, but would that be too small?
Anyone know the limits to these cpu coolers and how much heat they can handle? I have some ceramic permeable cups I could use to diffuse the flame and spread the heat a bit.
I purchased a welding back flash arrester, and a set of jewelers welding tips sizes 1, 2, and 3 to test out. Hopefully I can make the hot section of this heater very small, but with a decent output.
The prospect of heating for less than 400 watts is VERY tantalizing.
Try this guy's videos on youtube. He says he has adjustments to get the flame size you need.
Mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lEXocd1BM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lEXocd1BM)
or more from smartscarecrow. These guys put out some power!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p_T-AoBqCo&feature=plcp
Yes I have talked with HHO connection.
The adjustments are done via the PWM. Im looking to control the flames maximum point via the nozzle, then dial it down from there as needed.
I would use the nozzle that gets you the biggest flame possible, then put some kind of valve on the supply tube, to cut back the flow rate. That will reduce your flame size. Think of it like an oxygen/ acetelene (sp) torch. These have a round knob at the base to control the flow of one of or both of the gases, I forget which, to control the flame.
Quote from: ydeardorff on May 09, 2012, 03:13:01 PM
I am working on a hho home heater.
My question is what flame tip to use.
If you are using pure stochoimetric HHO, the flame speed is supersonic
and you will end up blowing yourself and possibly neighbours from
here to eternity.
Pure HHO is VERY DANGEROUS INDEED.
You could mix in another gas, maybe air, but if this mixing process should
fail, then you are back on a death trip.
How are you generating the HHO? There may be (probably will be)a better
way to get to where you want to be.
Quote from: Paul-R on May 10, 2012, 10:58:40 AM
If you are using pure stochoimetric HHO, the flame speed is supersonic
and you will end up blowing yourself and possibly neighbours from
here to eternity.
Pure HHO is VERY DANGEROUS INDEED.
You could mix in another gas, maybe air, but if this mixing process should
fail, then you are back on a death trip.
How are you generating the HHO? There may be (probably will be)a better
way to get to where you want to be.
Just like everyone else with an electrolysis unit. :o
Although, after 20 years of working in the military Im usually a little more safety conscious than the average joe bob six pack out there.
So my heater designs involve flame sensors, thermostats, auto igniters, gas flow solenoid valves, just to name a few things.
So yes hho is explosive, so is natural gas, and propane. ;)
And they have been used for years in home heating. So why not use hho if I can produce enough gas for under 400 watts, heck thats a massive drop on my electrical bill. Even if it used half of what my 20+ year old coleman electric home heater does, thats a plus.
A torch is a simple thing to build so thats my first item on my list, then a home/ workshop heater, and so on, maybe Ill work on a gas cook top too. ;D
after seeing this video, I have all the info i need to build my own system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8igW-cxnDw
Part of my job was R.E. while I was in the military. So if I can get a decent look at something, I can usually build it.
The biggest problem Ive seen in the designs of what been made available on you tube is the output temps are way to high for home use as a space heater. Imagine your toddler walking by a space heater that has a 1000 degree output temp. That's way to high for anything to be used safely in the home. So Im shooting a bit lower on the out put, but a larger air volume, and surface area in my heat exchangers to compensate.
Quote from: ydeardorff on May 10, 2012, 02:23:43 PM
So yes hho is explosive, so is natural gas, and propane. ;)
No, you are wrong, and if you persist, you will kill yourself.
Natural gas and propane burn.
HHO explodes.
This is because the flame speed is so great that effectively,
there is no flame front. It goes off everywhere.
You may ignite it at the burner but it will burn through the burner,
down the feeder pipe, blowing everything on its way. You don't
mention bubblers, and so the flame will burn back to where the
gas is generated. There will probably be a fair amount above
your electrolyser, and so that will get blown to smithereens.
Persist with this and you have enjoyed your last Christmas.
You probably won't make it to Whitsun.
Why not put the HHO into a petrol engine and use the shaft
horspower to generate electricity, and use that for heating?
(You will need to retard the ignition).
At least, that way, there is little chance of a wall of your workshop
being blown out across the street.
Paul-R
Patrick's masterwork will provide all you need:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf
Im using several flame arrestors, in the system, as well as many safety features, Im not planning on using a bbq lighter to start the thing.
And my cell design allows me to separate the gases. so if the HHO, is a problem, I can add the membranes and just use the hydrogen alone.
Quote from: ydeardorff on May 11, 2012, 12:59:50 AM
And my cell design allows me to separate the gases.
In that case, there should not be the problem. But you are
not actually using HHO, but H2 instead.
Don't forget that you need a sophistcated electrolysis system
or you will get not more heat out than the heat value of
the electrciity that you put in. Chapter 10 should help.
yes, I am well aware of that. 20 years working with metals, 5 years on this project, and 3 of that in R&D has led to more time and expense than its probably worth.
I first have to finish refining the design of my cell, then flow test it under varying conditions (recording all data). Then Ill start with an HHO torch for cutting steel, then move into studying the flame intensity temperatures at varying nozzle sizes, flow rates, and distances.
Then on to a home heater, water heater, and cook top.
Should my design have a high enough flow rate, I may look into doing some genset tests with my two 5K gensets I have.
The whole move toward a car and getting better mileage is tantilizing, but I have no cheap car to test it on. Im not going to risk damaging our two new cars on an experiment.
Thanks for your cause for concern. I have more than 20 years military, heavy construction,welding, foundry, and various other industrial trade experience.
I do not take hho lightly, but do know its potential if mastered properly.
But I mean to test out every application I can to this that might render fruit. There are too many Naysayers, as well as BS'ers out there to believe everything you see on youtube, so I mean to test out everything myself, and as scientifically as I know how.
My test bench includes:
70amp pwm with frequency and duration adjustments, and intellegent memory settings (with 50 amp inline fuse)
electrolyzer digital temp gauge
reservoir digital temp gauge
A flame arrest-or between each item on the system (including bubblers)
A source amp gauge
An electrolyzer digital volt/amp gauge
4 power supply test circuits (a car engine start run stand, 240watt comp supply, 480 watt comp supply, and a 600watt comp supply)
A low tech 20 oz (591ml) bottle flow speed tester
An oxygen LPM flow test gauge (vertical ball gauge)
A large display digital stop watch
One large 1 gallon bubbler with air stone diffuser
One smaller one quart bubbler
An ultrasonic emitter system (to test resonance)
And one final oxy/acetylene brass flame arrestor at the work end on the line.
The test bench is also being fitted with an acrylic splash shield, and ventilation system
When mixing chemicals i use splash proof goggles, a full chemical apron, face shield, and elbow length chemical gloves
During testing and leak testing I use K2CO3 (potassium carbonate) as its less caustic than KOH (potassium hydroxide)
When all leaks, and testing have been accomplished then, the system is clean, and flushed then replaced with KOH for actual use.
Potassium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate, and sodium hydroxide can release dangerous gasses so my preferred electrolyte is KOH.
However, the real goal is no catalyst in the water at all.
My reservoir has a low level indicator which Im playing with tying into a relay to kick on an auto refill system via a solenoid valve
Again thank you for the warnings, but I am not the avg Joe here, not knowing what I'm playing with. So again thank you for your concern, and trying to help. Id love to explain my cell more, but I didn't spend 3 years developing it, to just give it away. Im not in it for the money, I'm in this to get the best electrode pairing, plate gap, cell design, and applications worked out into something as useful as possible.
Three years of studying chemistry, metallurgy, electron valances, battery design, corrosion properties, and a semester at ITT tech, as well as my current in process engineering degree, have led to very amazing discoveries thus far.
Im using a 1996 chevy cavalier coolant overflow tank as my reservoir. Although small, it is perfectly suited for this application. its internal baffling, and gas separator design works very well. The small capacity allow the cell to get up to operating temp sooner which helps for testing. As mentioned before it has a switch in it that I may or may not use as a electrolyte level indicator. For now until I know how it works Ill leave it unpowered.
Yes, don't be alarmed at using HHO for a heater application because you will have
only very small amounts of total HHO gas in it at any one time. Obviously do not
buffer/store HHO gas ever! Use a gaseous fuel flashback preventer between the burner
and the electrolyzer to prevent flashback. Give the electrolyser what I would call it
a rupture-disc top so that if it does blow it will pop the plastic top off the electrolyser
and not break the electrolyser's container. The flashback preventer is nothing more than
forcing the gas through a pipe with a lateral metal screen or gauze in it so that the
flame's heat cannot get through from input to output of the fb preventer pipe.
Now I would reccommend utilizing this in a heater application. (rather the a torch or
cook stove) The way to do this is to force a single hydrogen torch burner to point
forward into the center of a bunch of six inch cut off copper water pipes mechanically
bound into a cluster.
All of the above described quite accurately in video plans from a web site;
hhohhu.com
You can do a search at the top of this overunity.com web site for the string
"hhohhu.com" to see prior posts about this. If there is any way for you to find
the videos 1a.pdf... by all means do so because it accurately describe what is
required to build this heater in detail. Also at the web site: peswiki.com there
is also some historical information on it.
---
What you are trying to do is use the best possible HHO electrolyzer technology
to get over Faraday amounts of HHO gas, if possible, and then burn that gas in
a catalytic burner (the cluster of copper tubes).
The heater operates on LENR energy principles, it is two stage overunity,
1x when the HHO is electrolysed the 1x again when it is burned
catalytically. This cause the energy output to be LENR gain squared
but you will need to use LENR gain squared to get adequate net energy
gain out of the heater when running it on 500W.
Please let us know how your device turns out.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Thanks,
I am not pursuing the HHO heater plans with the copper pipes. Namely because my wife watches kids, and some of these heaters can put out over 1000 degrees within inches of the output. So my first test of design will be using round CPU heat sinks. The centers punch out, and can be mounted on a copper pipe. cool air is then blown over them, through a loose fitting duct to transfer heat.
The next design, once I can get nozzle to flame temp distances measured out is using a liquid cooling system for a PC. This will not only pump the coolant, but blow it out through essentially a large heat exchanger like a radiator.
By marrying tip size, hho flow rate, and distance from the flame I can easily dial in what temp exposure the cpu cooler gets exposed to.
That combined with a ceramic cup to spread the heat load, I can get this system to operate how I want it too.
Then Ill tie that into a digital thermostat, and auto ignition system. Combined it will make the system completely stand alone like a home furnace. While maintaining such safety features as auto relight, gas solenoid valves, and internal temp sensors. It sounds involved, but Id rather have utterly redundant safety systems, and be overly cautious then have a bbq lighter button to light it.
That way the unit can run, even at night while we sleep. without worry of the flame going out, and filling the house with hydrogen gas.
Looking forward to your progress. Also, for your radiator idea or hot water heater idea, I would suggest to use something that can hold a higher temp before boiling, like oil for example. Then you could use the oil to heat your water. You can control the flow of oil to moderate your water temp and could probably run it less, since the hho or h burns so much hotter.
Good idea, Im wondering if the CPU cooler could use oil, if it doesn't already. Depending on the oil, the only thing possibly needed might just be different hoses which I may have to modify anyway.
Using the CPU cooler allows I believe an equalization to be had. A loss of extremely high heat in a small volume, for a lower heat over a larger volume.
The reason that this device would make a good saleable product at the
right price is that in the US is that we can only expect 1850Watts to be
delivered from a lighting utility circuit. So that is a maximum with resistive
heating, while one really desires maybe 3->5KW of heat from a heater.
(like one of those old but rather dangerous kerosene room heaters.)
Baseboard electric heaters are a good deal but require a 230/240VAC
connection which limits their portability as this requires specialised
outlets or direct wiring.
Also one does not want to run a device at 15 Amp maximum or else other
devices cannot be plugged in on the circuit without blowing fuses or breakers.
And...one often desires but should not, locate a heater at the end of an
inexpensive extension cord. All these things argue for maybe a 500Watt upper
limit (like a home computer) on the amount of input current required to
be supplied. The 500Watt input vs 3->5KW output is obviously too disperate.
So, there is no way to supply this need without using LENR gain aside from a
portable heat pump with it's large ID hose going out of a window - which is
generally unacceptable. So this is a needed device. If the electrical input
really is only 500Watts maximum, suitable output heat levels will only be
obtained through LENR or other energy gain. Storage of hydrogen gas is
inadvisable and of HHO gas impossible.
This is an application with a required need independent of simple green vs
financial considerations.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Many have chimed in with relevant safety issues, I'm gald to see all those
like the extreme flame propagation speed of Hydrogen mixed with Oxygen,
(Technically, Hydrogen pressed into the transfer state is neither an explosion nor ignition,
it is a change-state cascade-failure from one state into another not currently understood !)
heck, an oxidizer and a fuel in a single path is almost ludicrous in application
Accident waiting to happen...
But the point of this thread is using it for heat.
modulating the output with a PWM (pulse-width modulator) metered supply module of some kind is a good starting point to experimenting with this concept, but more experienced people above have pointed good safety tips to, like detecting the lack of flame realtime.
But now I will make a connection that is useful,
use STONE !
(DON'T ask me which type, varies by region/supplier...test ALL...)
Remember, most sublimation issues aside concerning metals (never use metals !),
the only thing that can absorb such intense nuclear-level interactions of HHO,
is a high crystal content style of stone that will convert the release into Near-IR.
There are those here that think metal works ifflow is high, the matter de-evolves)
Yes, they will sublimate too IF overcome by value of exposure, ANY matter will.
Have you seen the YouBoob vid sublimating a diamond, heheh, nice...
Harvest the heat into an air flow exchanger,
or make the stone the heat exchanger into
a fluid of your heat's transport's choice.
What did you think those "Amish" heaters for free are
(that only charge you for the crafted wooden case only)
are really ?
The name of the game is to change the steady-state output of heat from the emission frequency it is native to,
to a more usable frequency of heat that WE (mere humans) can use bodily.
Taking a row of heat lamp bulbs,
and heating a flank of stone,
then running air through the path,
through the bulb sockets first (safety),
then past all the bulbs next to harvest,
then lastly past the stone's emission last,
converts previous emissions into usable heat !
sounds to simple, sorry, works, PROVEN...
Here's the rub, the "potential" to harvest heat from an HHO state conversion (flame) is sadly limited to a very tightly confined volumetric area, we all know this.
The area of conversion-event institutionalization
(the flame event horizon of incidence to be clear)
to flame event collapse is very limited in length.
I've seen 180-PSI + 120-PSI oxi-HY tips burn (BoobTube),
they stretched it to a touch over an inch effective usability,
even though it looked inches long in a CCD/CMOS sensor.
worse yet is that it relies on the actual matter involved in the conversion.
We can pass our hands through safely due to our composition,
but don't get a piece of Titanium involved in the conversion,
or your going to melt almost anything else around !
That is what makes the crystal structure of certain stone so special to this process,
I can't say if it is the lattice structure, or what else makes this work for this really,
but certain stone compositions almost seem to eat the thermals emitted during conversion
and then the simple matter is you have a very friggin hot stone now
just like we struggle to "pipe" the heat away from our CPU's fast enough,
you will struggle the be able to pump the heat away fast enough from stone.
My visual is stone with different depth bores from each end,
with matching flame burner/igniter tube assembalies each,
that is bored in from each side (end) to spread the surface heat.
As a resulte, a stones surface with IR spread and thermal input
Then a dual-faced cross-flow fluid recovery aspect,
as fluid's seem to be the best at absorbing thermals,
without changing states and loosing energy thusly.
As long as people can "get it",
grammer is a luxery for next lifetime,
and I'll always mistype and/or mispell...
Hope you'll let this slide.
OK, off the end of the ruler idea:
Peltier's have significant losse in efficientcy,
heat pumps have an < 4.0 avergae gain too.
can a heat pump generate enough heat to service
the very pumps/fans involved,
or does current accepted law forbt that ?
Second law of conversion is only for closed-loop (Steam) assesments.
I dont really follow the LENR equation, but Ill look it up. As I have reviewed a document thus far it deal with cold fusion which is not what Im doing.
As this thread is yours, I'll respect that and butt out,
but LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) is a misnomer,
Just as bad as HHO is actually.
The human cell is supported by LENR by that definition,
and it is in infinitely inexaustable supply of energy too.
At least I didn't make up a new acronym like them to explain
what they really don't understand the process of, like:
CSNR (Change-State Nuclear Interaction) or something...
Ignore me, try stone, forget metal, it won't work.
Did you know Aero-Gel is a metal though (shuttle tiles),
it is mostly aluminum cool-whip with silica (sand) ?
Sorry, That makes sense.
Yes, Aero-gel has been a favorite of mine for years. A lattice matrix of silica made from nano crushed sand, and isoprophyl alcohol. 99% air, but with the tensile strength of steel per volume, all the while being lighter than polystyrene foam. It in fact floats on nitrogen. It can be made into just about anything, a battery, a capacitor, a conductor, an insulator, a foam that can be made with an insulating factor of R85. You can even eat it. But its best point is a piece the thickness of a piece of paper can rest on your hand, with a butane torch blowing on it, and you wont feel any heat transfer.
So despite its expense, it could be something very useful if married with the brown gas torch, or flame element for heating applications, as you could really keep the hot section hot, and not lose any heat applied. While keeping the rest of the equipment safe in a heater or other application. But at 70+ dollars for a little piece the size of a marble, its not in my pocket book. Another down side is its very fragile, like glass.
My flame tips arrived, a 3, 2, and 1 size from a jewelry torch. No I have to find a way to adapt them for use.
If I can get the flame size small enough, to get past the reactive flame, to just its heat output, I can dial it up or down as necessary.
I picked up some fittings to make some YouTube flame arrestors, and a bubbler diffuser, only to find the resistance to airflow through the line was ridiculous, So I may toss em, and take the parts back. My welding flame arrestor requires fairly high pressure to operate, so I may have to toss it as well.
My test bench is coming along nicely though. I have a generation side, and a testing side. The generation side is where all the liquid items are, and the dry side which is where all my testing and the gas is sent (separated by a wooden partition). The High powered A/C electronics are protected, and mounted above everything, and the lowered powered DC items, like gauges are mounted opposite of the generation side, yes still protected from any liquids, or mishaps.
Next Ill be working out a splash cage and fans for the generation side. The bench fully illuminated, and has enough room for me to take notes while its running. I'm using 10 gauge wire as the mains to the hydrogen generator, with a 30amp fuse placed in line to protect the electronics.
My reservoir is very small maybe a quart in liquid volume, and the cell is a 7 plate gap design. I made it like this as partially its what I had, but I should be able to get the cell up to operating temps faster with the smaller volume of electrolyte, and get to my testing ranges faster. The trick will be control of the cell.
Its a parallel cell, using highly reactive (electrically) elements researched from my chemistry experience in my last class, and trial and error.
My concern is even a a 40 amp dc to dc power module may end up just continuing to climb till it pops the fuse. So I will have to take things slowly to find the sweet spot. This would be where I have a sustained temperature, and a sustained flame via a torch tip.
Given each cell is different, I cannot use anything but estimates on starting points from other peoples experience.
Measurement: I bought an vertical ball gauge oxygen meter that measures in LPM. Now this is calibrated for oxygen which is a different density than a hydrogen and oxygen mixture, so I know it will be off a bit. So I also have the ghetto bottle filling station as well. Having two meters to measure gas should back each other up when it comes to real results.
I only wish i could find a gas sensor setup that would measure the content of the gases being produced. Nothing currently out there is made to detect gas content values in an air stream, for the gases we are making with these cells. If there was and it wasn't super expensive, then we would have the real tangible answers we need to refine the process further. After all its not just about the LPM, it about what is being produced in LPM. Some electrolyte, and metal mixtures produce deadly gases that would not be wise to exploit.
One thought for home heating though. We all know carbon monoxide is dangerous being released into a home via a heater, so is CO2. I had thought of using one of those Carbon monoxide detectors to check for CO content in the gas stream. I mean we wouldn't want a byproduct of the generator to be producing CO in the air while we sleep right? Perhaps just pointing the tube toward the sensor would reveal whether CO is being produced or not. Or it might false alarm by detecting what it thinks is CO as well.
I use K2CO3 for testing the bench, and KOH for actual recorded testing. Since Potassium Carbonate is less apt to burn me in the mixture rates Im using. Then once all the leaks are ironed out, I can rinse out the system and run it with KOH knowing Im not going to destroy my new bench.
Another thought of concern is hydrogen is lighter than even helium, it took scientists years to figure out how to store helium successfully. Now we are not storing it I know, however how much gas is making it past our gaskets? Could this lead to a fire if not properly ventilated?
Sry for the DP,
I hooked up my bernz-o-matic to my propane bottle last night since it had a #3 tip on it like my jewelry tips I bought and lit her up to see what the flame size was. And frankly I was astonished having a 6 to 8 inch flame coming off this thing, with such a small nozzle.
When I get some more funds, Im going to make something that will allow me to test all the tips out.
Has anyone tried the basketball inflater tip as a flame tip? i wonder if it would melt after awhile.
under 22-PSI and/or OVER a 3/16 lead from the event horizon (flame rear) to the source,
your comfortable from incessive recursion into the flow path of standard HHO, despite arresters..
My inflator was a Bendix, standard basketball model,
didn't measure, I've moved, no additional data, sorry.
Previous = tested factors / post equals noted exceptions
This is going to seem counter intuitive,
but the closer you get the flame to the orifice the better.
Let me try to be clearer, when we diddle with regular gasses,
we tend to be cognisant of the burn rate by example/experience.
We are "Obeservant" of effect and change because we can see them...
But, those that have tested a 50' piece of 1/16" fish-tank hose know repeatadly,
that the flash at the other end into the ballon (at send end) appears instantanious.
So, seeing a lead frame before re-combination is an order more stable and predictable,
than with traditional gasses that we can "see" burn rate reaction because the flame propagation is within our visible observance and cognitive range of perception !
Don't underestimate how much error/horror has occurred due to this.
We are accustomed to "Being Able" to envision change with all we work with,
we ARE NOT accustomed to reactions outside of our perception range for sure.
To say "We saw that" implies we ONLY "saw that" in this case, as you can see...
I'll leave you with this question,
I'm from new England (Boston),
our granite emits heat very well,
moved to Pennsylvania next, sad,
but Houston Texas is MUCH WORSE.
What I mean is that if you heat our (NE) stone,
it emits better far IR than penn., and TX., by far.
why?
analisis shows only slightly higher sodium content...
There has to be so much more we just don't know.
There is a soap-stone I was given a sample of in Mildand, TX,
It would not secumb to sublimation at any range at all,
but sadly, it could not emit a snig of heat either it seemed...
"If it can change, it can / If it can change, it will"
Doesn't seem to apply here
what frequency is that soapstone re-emiting at,
that we most clearly cannot see ?
Sorry, spell like crap, type worse...
Quote from: CompuTutor on May 14, 2012, 01:24:22 AM
LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reaction) is a misnomer,
Just as bad as HHO is actually.
I think you will find that the term HHO was coined by the legendary Bob Boyce
as a reply to a probalby spurious charge by someone who reckoned that they
owned the word "hydroxy".
HHO is defined as a stochiometric mix of hydrogen and oxygen generated on
demand by electrolysis or more preferably by water cracking.
Funny,
I was conversing with CAL-TECH professors about "water cracking" 17 years ago. Before the HHO explosion, hell before youtube. lol
Just because someone claims ownership of something doesn't mean it can be stopped. Ideas, cannot be contained once they are shared. That's the difference between people trying to make the world a better place for everyone, or make a buck for themselves.
Too bad people place greed before generosity most of the time.
Quote from: ydeardorff on May 17, 2012, 02:13:20 PM
Funny,
I was conversing with CAL-TECH professors about "water cracking" 17 years ago. Before the HHO explosion, hell before youtube. lol
Just because someone claims ownership of something doesn't mean it can be stopped. Ideas, cannot be contained once they are shared. That's the difference between people trying to make the world a better place for everyone, or make a buck for themselves.
Too bad people place greed before generosity most of the time.
Bob coined the expression; that's all. He owns rights on his hardware,
referred to in Chapter 10 which can be acquired through his site.
Nobody owns "water cracking". It goes back to the late 19th century and
John Worrell Keely. Hit water with a sound wave at 42.7172 hz and stuff
happens, apparently. (NB not an electromagnetic wave).
Well the new test bench is up and running.
The first night i fought leak after leak in my lines. First in the reservoir lid, all the way down the lines.
Then my cell was surging, on its gas release, telling me a gasket has gone awry inside. This pulsing of the gasses made my O2 ball flow gauge bounce horribly. Once my temps were up to 115 degrees, I ran the 500ml bottle test and came up with only a 1.06mmw.
So somethings isn't right with the cell Ill have to look more into it, by cracking it back open and verifying everything.
So this isnt inspring results, I know. But i would have thought a much better flow rate, but too many variables were left out, like the strength of the electrolyte wasnt known, leaks, and the cell misbehaving. The internally manifolded system utilizes gaskets to channel the flow of fluid and gos, while keeping the plates perfectly separated at 1/8". Its probably my fault, as I was in a hurry to get the thing together, rather than nit pick every detail.
I wont make the same mistake next time.
The 96 cavalier surge tank had its own problems... Namely the filler cap has flat spots on two sides, I imagine it was designed to release gas, not contain it. So I may have to modify it, or buy a new one.
Quote from: Paul-R on May 19, 2012, 11:28:30 AM
Bob coined the expression; that's all. He owns rights on his hardware,
referred to in Chapter 10 which can be acquired through his site.
Nobody owns "water cracking". It goes back to the late 19th century and
John Worrell Keely. Hit water with a sound wave at 42.7172 hz and stuff
happens, apparently. (NB not an electromagnetic wave).
I got that frequency is wrong.
It should be 42.7172 Khz (or 42,717 hz).
Quote from: ydeardorff on May 19, 2012, 01:42:40 PM
Once my temps were up to 115 degrees
What bulk of liquid are you using and how long did it take to get to that temperature?
It looks like too much of your electricity ends up as heat and the voltage across each cell is not good.
My reservoir tank, and cell comprise about a quart of overall volume. it took probably about an hour to reach that temp.
I ran several tests this morning after being layed out sick for two days. I realized I was using a potash mixture of about 1/3 teaspoon per gallon, and getting about 1.5 mmw on my cell.
So after some tweaking on the new test bench, Im going to revamp my gaskets, and replace the K2CO3 with KOH at a strength of about 3 teaspoons per gallon and retest my results.
All of my tests today were from 7.5 vdc/9.8 amps through 11.5 vdc / 24.4 amps
I found out quickly that all of my new bench top equipment leaked like a seive, so i ended up running the reservoir output directly to my bottle tester to rule out as many leaks as possible, until I can get something else figured out. For all I know the leaks may be the major culprit in the readings I got.
As an add on note,
I tore down the cell, and am replacing the gaskets with thinner ones. I also will be changing out my electrolyte to KOH, instead of K2CO3.
This will give me more info, and Ill be able to see if tightening up the gaps will help my mmw readings.
Heres the new test bench http://youtu.be/RoaI-Io12Ko
The orange line of test 4 was the best in production per MMW readings @ 1.54mmw
Oh and by the way, the volt/amp meter wasnt right. I wasnt producing bubbles at .2 amps. After the video I connected it through the meter and found I was running about 8amps. Once the leaks are fixed, I should be on my way to a decent generator for my home heater.