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I recently bought three varities of Nitinol Wire with reaction temps as follows . one is 115 degrees F the next is 98.6F and the third is the new AIR TEMP 70 DEGREES F . they all have infinate memory capibilities as long as the stress and memory temp parameters are met
mY  plans are to make a thermobile type motor with shafts to hold multiple pairs of Nitinol Wheels and connect the shafts to either a small motor/generator or put magnets on the shaft and capture the electricity with coils. The Nitinol can be Bought Cheap as a 300 foot roll cost 99 dollars . and 5 foot sections for 10 dollars . any one want to join in and get the Nitinol motor gen project ideas are welcoms . also any comments welcome . The "Heat" motor will use plain cool water and the outside air temp greater than 69degrees F to run the motor using AIR TEMP NITINOL. there will no need to heat up water as the air itself will supply the heat while the task will be to keep the cold side cooler so a 20 degree differantionl to run the motor . Now here on the East Coast i have recorded 116 degree air temp as we are in a Heat wave so heat is not the problem .Keeping the cool water might be . Possible using the earth ground as an insulator on the cold side of the motor and exposing the hot side to the air .
You can watch a Lecture about the properties and uses here .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpZhSdgdSI&feature=endscreen&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpZhSdgdSI&feature=endscreen&NR=1)
Gadget

Here is a Design that will convert Nitinol to mechanical Energy (motor) This design ternimates to a crankshaft . you could use this to power an electric generator . This type of Nitinol wire can lift 30 pounds 30 inches with just a 30 degree F shift in tempature differential .
http://www.pacificsites.com/~snyder/Ebay/Nitinol/high_efficiency_power_conversion.htm (http://www.pacificsites.com/~snyder/Ebay/Nitinol/high_efficiency_power_conversion.htm)

This wire is Availible on ebay for 19.95 us for 40foot roll . http://www.ebay.com/itm/330696040468?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330696040468?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)
Gadget Al

Hi Gadget,
Thanks for bring our attention to the availability of air temp Nitinol. Here's a link for a company that I've had good service for purchasing from that sells the low temp wire: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Air-Temp-Nitinol-SHAPE-MEMORY-Wire-magic-tricks-robotics-5-feet-/251012885447?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7188abc7 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Air-Temp-Nitinol-SHAPE-MEMORY-Wire-magic-tricks-robotics-5-feet-/251012885447?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7188abc7)


If I was working with Nitinol I'd work on a linear drive instead of rotary, you can now get highly efficient linear generators that operate on as little as a 0.5 in stroke.


tak

Hello tak22 . I thought about linear however using just plain Nitinol wire we don't get much movment Linearly like 8 percent not like the Wave generators i have read about . Thats why robotics and such use nitinol wire for auctators and such . You can make the throw much more than 8% IF you use Nitinol Spring loops .I have yet to find a nitinol spring more than 6mm for less  than 21 dollars. Also they dont make it in air temp Nitinol and the reaction of other Nitinol springs and helix are close to the boiling point.I see your poing though we could tie one of those squeze generators like you see on those russian emergency lights .Once nitinol Springs are made with Air temp nitinol that will be a good option.here is a link about nitinol and linear operations . http://cimar.mae.ufl.edu/CIMAR/pages/thesis/santiago_jr.pdf (http://cimar.mae.ufl.edu/CIMAR/pages/thesis/santiago_jr.pdf)

Thanks for the article, I dug around my files and found the link for the linear alternators I mentioned, they range from 100w to 10Kw: http://www.qdrive.com/UI/ProductsListing.aspx?ptype=2&mcid=115&pcid=115&ccid=116 (http://www.qdrive.com/UI/ProductsListing.aspx?ptype=2&mcid=115&pcid=115&ccid=116)
A little gearing should overcome the 8% limit quite easily.


tak

Hi gadget,  I think the nitinol motor is the best chance to get an overunity device working at a  price to afford.  I am glad to see someone giving it a go.  I would be interested in building one of these as well.  Please keep us updated on your progress.

Thanks,
Mark

Quote from: tak22 on July 04, 2012, 01:46:53 PM
Hi Gadget,
Thanks for bring our attention to the availability of air temp Nitinol. Here's a link for a company that I've had good service for purchasing from that sells the low temp wire: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Air-Temp-Nitinol-SHAPE-MEMORY-Wire-magic-tricks-robotics-5-feet-/251012885447?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7188abc7 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Air-Temp-Nitinol-SHAPE-MEMORY-Wire-magic-tricks-robotics-5-feet-/251012885447?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7188abc7)


If I was working with Nitinol I'd work on a linear drive instead of rotary, you can now get highly efficient linear generators that operate on as little as a 0.5 in stroke.


tak

THANKS!! Bought some! even if i can't make a OU engine, would be hours of fun to play around with :D

I also think this is the best chance for ou for anyone .After all all the components in a sterling engine are in this wire . If you really want to play get a ready made Nitinol engine from here . this is the cheapest place i have found and have ordered one for the long nitinol  spring . Be sure to put in the coupon code for your discount http://www.scientificsonline.com/nitinol-heat-engine.html (http://www.scientificsonline.com/nitinol-heat-engine.html)  Edmond Scientific Co.  and here is the Model running http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrsx6f4HrSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrsx6f4HrSE)  One  minior problem with this design is the slipage on the pulleys . this guy has a much better design using a Nitinol chain and sprockets called the VT1 . grab the pdf while its unrestricted http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-02102001-172947/unrestricted/ETD.pdf (http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-02102001-172947/unrestricted/ETD.pdf)

and the original inventor video  of the just released Video making Nitinol widely known this year . (Why haven't we heard of this before) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoezR5pyweU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoezR5pyweU)  this stuff was developed in 1962 .. Maybe because this stuff was top secret and already discovered in 1942 ? (Roswell Crash) Remember the discription of the shiny metal that sprung back when wadded up.


Gadget al

Who makes the nitinol products mentioned?

http://www.kelloggsresearchlabs.com/ (http://www.kelloggsresearchlabs.com/)  makes the low temp nitinol and some demo toys . you can contact them in the USA @ info@kelloggsresearchlabs.com What is interesting is they make the Nitinol in various activation temps by various amounts of Nickle and Titanium . Air temp Nitinol has 4 times more density and metal than standard high tempature nitinol . They also have Body Temp nitinol for demonstrating transformation at 98.6 . they can design any form or shape of Nitinol for the right price and from searching they are the cheapest manufacture willing to sell by the foot ...other Manufactures want Minium ordered of 700 dollars etc..

Gadget, which engine are you going to build?  What I would like is one I could put in the basement/ attic and drive a generator.  This way I could sell back electricity to the electric company.  I would also like one to run an a/c and heater.  Heck, if they work great, maybe even one to put in a garage.

Nitinol Motors have been reported to be way more efficiant and have more torque than a Sterling heat engine . Now with the release of Air temp Nitinol there should be lots of people getting onboard for large Engines to connect to Electrical generators that run simple on our planet that has perpetual sun and air . And we all know that somthing as simple as a  joule thief can light many many leds for a fraction of the input compared to running the leds with normal current and at the very least my failed attempt proved that you can harness very high amperages with a simple Joule thief charging a massive Ultral capacitor to full charge from just a 1.2 volt battery . Generator design has been greatly inhanced over the last few years as show by tak22's link . My plan is to make single wire loops like the old thermobile toy except multipled . one problem is SLIP on the pully.. i thing with the right pully surface it will stick better . One has solved this with single Nitinol wire by making his own Nitinol Chain and using sprockets instead of a smooth surface pully My Hopes are to spur intrest and others make their own versions of Nitinol Engines.this stuff is cheap enuff now that anyone can experiment with it . You might even  have a piece of nitinol .back in the 80's old motorola flip phones had the Nitinol memory wire antenna's.other old cellphones with pull up antennas were tended to be made of memory metal covered in a poly jacket.Also if your wife or girlfriend has an old playtex miricle underwire bra there is memory wire there also :)
So Guys let's start ripping those bras Apart :} :)

Gadget

Interesting Unclassified Doc.the Entire Doc is here http://www.scribd.com/doc/78727172/On-the-TiNi-Nitinol-Martensitic-Transition-1972-107p

Some Guy Testing His Nitinol and describing some properties . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEpZEj6Ymk  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEpZEj6Ymk)


quite hilarious

I checked out the link, which has more links to a site called grand-illusions.com, where you can buy some nitinol.  They have a nitinol heat engine toy, which you also can buy.  Is this the design you will be trying to scale up?  I could see that being possible.  At the top, have a generator along with the fan. 
Mark

 look at this picture . I want multiple wheels mounted on shafts for more energy output.the  difference will be using AIR Temp Nitinol and the heat will be the air and the cool will be the water .

 another peculiar property of Nitinol: it can be bent repeatedly without showing signs of metal fatigue. And although Nitinol gets warm at the bend point when bent, like any other metallic alloy, it becomes cool when bent
back to its original shape.This metal is sounding more and more like somthing from outer space .. This is some more reading pertaning to this metal might actually have been from some of the encounters http://bragalia.blogspot.com/2011/07/roswells-memory-metal-air-force.html

the best deal is the 40 foot roll $19.95 free shipping  .I have also ordered a 1000 foot roll of this particular wire . This is what is going to be the breakthrough in Cop > 1 . the wire has Incredible spring-back power . I made a small spring  and stretched it out and hung a vise grip on it and it lifted that heavy thing right up with some warm air. . i have uploaded a few experiments on Youtube . My Id there is 4Christonly1 .

Buy it here http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Elastic-Nitinol-Niti-New-Power-Technology-/330696040468?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&;_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D430386719976848579%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D1%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Elastic-Nitinol-Niti-New-Power-Technology-/330696040468?_trksid=p2045573.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27%26meid%3D430386719976848579%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D1011%26rk%3D1%26)


i annealed a piece and it reacts with air and body temperature or hot water .


gadget

Gadget, how do you connect it together to form a single loop, weld?

Mark , with a Variable temp soldering station set to about 600f-to 750f and some Tin/silver solder . You have to scrape the wire to get the solder to stick because the wire has a slight oxide on it .they recommend a special Nitinol Flux  but i have soldered some without it using some acid flux and without . 

I just can't believe the strength a small piece of this wire bent in cool water then placed near or in warm water . Its like a SNAP of the finger . you ever been thumped with a thumb and index finger flicked , thats how strong this is . It's tricky to make work because you have to anneal it first before you use it otherwise its simply a stiff piece of like piano wire you cant bend . well you can bend it but it just springs back to the original shape off the roll . you can run electric current thru it to get it to glow red while shaping it then in a split second dunk it in ice water . I do this maybe 10 times except i have used a torch lighter to get it red. then after that, make it cool and bend it then alternate to hot water . The Force actually increased 10 fold and set it to a lower transition temperature than the roll was supposed to have 125F. mine set to about 80degrees Fahrenheit and works really good in your hand or a warm room . This Nitinol has Power in it you won't believe . I am Glad the Department of Energy Declassified it.I believe this stuff is overunity in it self but don't quote me on it . the Guy that sold this also believes this to be true . WE need some who who can measure force verse temp to verify this as a calculation. This wire can lift 30 pounds almost 30 inches with a ~30 degree F change. i have done a small experiment where i made a crude coil spring 1.5 inches with a foot of this material and annealed it like above and it pulled up a pair of lock pliers with some air from a blow dryer almost instantly like 10 inches back to the spring length . the wire size is only .020"  . about the size of  the third  G string on an electric guitar. In ice water a small 1.5 inch piece bends in the glass from its own weight . wet noodle . but the instant you take it out the transformation begins to stiffen it to an unbendable Wire that just retains it's annealed shape.

Gadget, sounds excellent.   I also believe that this shouldn't be too hard to get an overunity engine from this stuff.  I was doing some thinking about the design and how you want to run multiple /pulleys strands of it.  If you run a two cog system, you could have multiple "channels" in each cog, kind of like the older pulleys on cars.  The pulley on the crankshaft has like 3 rows of belts to turn all the accessories, instead of one large belt.  Unless of course you can get wider nitinol wire.  Just an idea.

here are some of my brass pulleys i will use . I have approximately 75 other brass pulleys and flywheels on order in various sizes . I see no reason that multiple loops of Nitinol wires won't work on just one pulley so at least two per set .

Hi Gadgetmall,

Thanks for the links.

I wonder if you could get a copper pulley and aluminum pulley. Put some alternating magnets near the copper to create eddy heating and the aluminum should sink the heat away cooling the wire. Might need a starter motor to get the copper heated but with enough strands it might be able to overcome the loss in the copper. Has any studies been done on using nitinol to aid a motor? Let's say I have a small DC motor running nitinol strands to a pulley while the strands are friction heated on one side by a hard rubber or plastic surface and cooled on the other. Once heated it should start to aid the motor lowering the amp draw.

Hello Gadget,


Great project! 


Hope you don't mind me thinking along a little.


I was thinking if you take hollow axles, you could run heat/temp trough them without minimal loss.


Also to gain power, just add wires to the axel. I attach a picture.
It could be tested with some copper or aluminium pipes.



I will follow you with great interest.


Keep up the good work.


C'man

Or even better, your own Nitinol powered continues gearbox !


Power in all speeds an torques on demand from a little temp difference ;-)

Wonderful Ideas Guys . Both motor assist and hollow axle .I think the Hollow Axle i will have to try . The Brass pulleys i already have and the ones on order gave been used already with nitinol single wires . Using a hollow axle to feed water on hot and cool side sounds like a doer. just need a way to couple the water inlets while allowing the pipes to be used as an axle.

Cherryman . I Love your Drawings .Great Job.Did you use cad? I wonder is you could draw up three pairs of My pulleys mounted with Nitinolwire and the hollow tube method made from Stainless steel .I intend to put steam Engine Flywheel on the top section . I have a ton of brass gears ,flywheels , pulleys etc and with a 1000 feet of Nitinol that i know i can transform to low temp  Nitinol this could be much bigger with pulleys stacked and many loops of  NiTi .. also using a Niti pump to circulate cool water while the top portion is exposed to summer air will also be pondered .. The thing about Nitinol is is can also be electrically activated so as a back up, solar panel. .. and i can always use a panel and small pump to circulate waters .. The question is will it produce more energy that it takes to run it . If air is free and light is free and makes this run then the cost of solar would have to be put into the equations.I know after 20 some years of the Government researching this stuff they came up with most every conceivable idea but there is always something they didn't think about ..  heck i have even thought of winding a Jt with this stuff and using it as HHO electrodes..just a bit of dreaming ..

Gadget

Gadget 

Hi Gadget,


I did gave it a quick and dirty try, pic attached


I guess you will be best of with some springs in between (as drawn) to keep a minimal tension.
Although it could work counter productive by loosing rotation due to linear reaction. That will depend on the moment the Nitinol stretches out. I guess some experimenting will make that clear.


I do have some remark, by I understand u want to re-use your brass collection ;-) using the brass pulleys i hope you will have enough temp difference. or you should put them submerged in a cooling liquid.


Second, i think with this particular design there is no need for a flywheel, although flywheels might have some more properties that could benefit, and you requested one.. So there it is.


Please keep us updated , preferably by video.. I like watching those fun experiments!




If I can assist feel free to ask.


C'man

Sweet . You are Good :) Yes i choose Brass Because the Thermobile Toy Uses it . From My Understanding it is the perfect Heat Sink for Nitinol drives. I am going to use 3 pairs of wheels so 6 total for the first Experiment .The top pair or warm/hot side will be the output shaft with flywheel. i think a heavy brass flywheel on the output shaft will help turn My Generator . I have a special Generator a  KOLLMORGEN PMI SERVO DISC MOTOR U12M4T US sells used for $1395.00 .  It has  hardly any cog and a slight rotation (finger twist)  will light the filament on a 12volt car interior  bulb. I think the VT1 Design has a few weights pulling tension so it has a little give but i like the Spring idea also.These two Generators i found at the local scrap yard for 5 buck . The other is a dynamo and works like a charm spitting out over 400 VDC for 12 in .I am sure other small generators and even magnet ,coil ,Jt designs will come after experimenting . If i can get 50 -100 rpm i will be happy . i understand some nitinol motor runs Fans at 350 rpm .

Hi Cherryman,

Great ideas and nice renders.

If you can reinforce a portion of your hot and cold water lines in the house you could reclaim some of the heating costs by running a nitinol powered generator off it.

A Nitinol Test showing the Straightning force of one small piece  of the 40 foot roll . I annealed this piece and it will react wait warm water and body heat . http://youtu.be/63qyM0xIq4c

@gadgetmall,
Your video is very interesting and really piques my interest.  I will order a small 5’ piece just to play with.  600 Celsius or 1112 Fahrenheit is a good bit of heat to shape the wire.  To simplify this for me, would you shape the wire into a fairly tight coil so that when heated, the wire will bend into the curve to turn your wheel.  Since the wire will shorten, I would guess this must be taken into account when determining the length of wire to use.  In my case, I have pilot lights on the water heater, furnace, and gas fireplace that run year round.  This seems to be a built in source of heat for such an application like this.  Please keep us posted on your project.
Brad 

I am investigating that now . My spring nitinol motor came today to observe . I think the straight wire loop will work way better than a spring just by first observations . The Thermobile uses Straight Nitinol wire soldered in a loop . Another way i have devised is make small hook and hole on the ends to be joined and anneal it closed . you can also use glue.
Recently i have just used Maxwell Ultra Capacitors charged up . two in series and it will make two inches glow red . i use alligator clips to pull on the wire while heating to get  straight memory shaped and i use a small dentist pick tool to wrap the wire around using a vise grip to hold one end then hook an alligator clip to a pair of needle nose pliers to pull on the spring i make it turns red and i dunk it in a bowl of water . wala , homemade spring . getting ready to show a video of my 1.5 inch spring stretched out lifting a pair of lock piers up 7 inches or so .. You have to TRAIN  your Nitinol after you anneal it . with straight piece get it ice cold and bend it then alternate in hot water . do this at least 10-20 time . you will then have a Very Strong piece that can come back or transform at lower temperatures and more stronger reactions like the slap video i showed .Never bend hot or warm Nitinol. It will lose part of its memory and will not come back to the original shape . One guy did just that  here .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEpZEj6Ymk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONEpZEj6Ymk)  notice his deformed spring .he pulled on it when in the  austenite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenite) state or parent state . you should only bend or pull your Nitinol in it's full  martensite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martensite) state or cold. I really recommend you get the 40 foot roll. It actually works better than the air temp or the body temp packs . This wire can be annealed at different temperature  and gives you a wide range of transformation temps as well including air and body transformations . i like it . i have bought almost 1000 feet of this particular wire .comming soon . i don't want to run out of this material and need lots of it for experiments . one person sells 40 foot pieces of this special Nitinol for 19.99 us http://www.ebay.com/itm/330696040468?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/330696040468?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) .

here is another guys idea diagram . I think instead of rods here i could use Nitinol wire and have a homemade generator hanging putting some weight on the wire . but that is just guessing . 

Quote from: b_rads on July 10, 2012, 04:45:48 PM
@gadgetmall,
Your video is very interesting and really piques my interest.  I will order a small 5’ piece just to play with.  600 Celsius or 1112 Fahrenheit is a good bit of heat to shape the wire.  To simplify this for me, would you shape the wire into a fairly tight coil so that when heated, the wire will bend into the curve to turn your wheel.  Since the wire will shorten, I would guess this must be taken into account when determining the length of wire to use.  In my case, I have pilot lights on the water heater, furnace, and gas fireplace that run year round.  This seems to be a built in source of heat for such an application like this.  Please keep us posted on your project.
Brad 

Hello . I have found the perfect Annealing procedure using the 40 foot roll nitinol wire . This wire is a golden amber color off the roll . You cant kink it as it will snap into . you can bow it but it is stiff and just goes back straight .. Some tell you 600c or 1122 c . That is BS . As far as i can tell you do not need to get the wire that hot . In Fact you will damage this wires Crystalline properties and mess it up permanentlyIf you get it much higher than 600-700 degrees F. Heres why thru experimenting i have found the perfect ANNEAL for my Nitinol wire . I took three pieces 6 inches long. the first piece i used three high amperage Ultra super caps at 2.7 volts each and used needle nose pliers connected to neg and pos and let the first wire glow red for a bout three seconds then disconnected it very fast and let it fall in a bowl of ice water . The transformation temp is high as it takes very hot water to transform . The second piece i used two ultra caps 5.4 volts and did the same thing except i let it barley glow then dunked it in ice water . the transformation now occurs at luke warm water ..Now the third piece i used only one 2.7 volt ultra cap .. I watched the wire change color from golden amber to blue,no glow then dunked it in ice water . Now i have air temp Nitinol and will change to the  austenite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenite) stage at room temperature and really fast using body temp and it only needs cool water not ice water to make it flexible and in the martensite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martensite) state . So DO NOT LET THE WIRE GET RED .you only need enough heat to change the wires color then ice water to anneal it to make air temp nitinol. I have two IR digital thermometers coming soon so i will let you know the exact temperatures but i estimate 550 degrees F is the best annealing temp for a Nitinol Air motor .
Comprehensive studies have been done on the outcome of the transition temperatures from various annealing temps and stresses . One is here http://www.scientific.net/KEM.324-325.335 (http://www.scientific.net/KEM.324-325.335) .

Also note that i used needle nose pliers and actually pulled on all the wires while heating to gain tensile strength as well as more movement .  I have tried the first few pieces without puling  strain using a torch  and the seemed weaker . There are lots of studies on this annealing using a force applied and this helps in TRAINING your wire . Once you have the proper annealed wire you want to smush it up in cold water and then dunk it in hot water 10- 20 time or more . This makes the wire much stronger in reactions and helps stabilize your transition temps.  I am uploading a video of the last two pieces and their reactions . the first piece i gave to my daughter as it is not usable and was a casualty of experimentation . DON"T OVERHEAT YOUR NITINOL . and don't waste your money on the 5 foot sections from the magic wire sold by kellogsresearchlabs .you get so much more from the other seller . 
Here is another pdf you can save on TRAINING your Nitinol wire. http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/357798.pdf (http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/357798.pdf)
Gadget

This is a video of My last two best samples of the same wire annealed at different temperatures  . The audio is out of sync with the Video and skipping a bit . Sorry youtube upload problem ..the first piece i let get red hot for a few seconds is now a toy for my daughter .

http://youtu.be/UzudyF0oNRQ (http://youtu.be/UzudyF0oNRQ)



More Links and a Pdf from Cornell http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/education/modules/documents/Nitinol.pdf (http://www.ccmr.cornell.edu/education/modules/documents/Nitinol.pdf)

I tried to find out how many Electrons neutrons and protons are in this metal because i wanted to know the thermoelectric properties and came up with this link http://cst-www.nrl.navy.mil/lattice/struk/NiTi.html (http://cst-www.nrl.navy.mil/lattice/struk/NiTi.html) . This stuff can be combined in crystal cell batteries and piezo electrics . More test for that aspect later ...

gadget

MY video Of O U Nitinol Changing in the air..
http://youtu.be/aBjFJISA65k (http://youtu.be/aBjFJISA65k)

oK ITS NITINOL LETTER O LETTER U //
Just got the 1000 feet and another brand of higher grade 120 feet .. Ok . I am gone for a bit untile i have something to show . here is a quick shot of the Edmond Scietific Nitinol Heat engine (Dr. Johnson) http://youtu.be/Jj-L5Iyy5kQ

Looking forward to your progress Gadget.

A Quick Note On tempature of Nitinol and stress . For those of you who are buying some Nitinol and after you anneal it in what ever tempature here is a VERY interesting test I have done . Take a Piece of Straight Annealed Nitinol . Put it on your upper lip so you can feel the tempature of the wire .. It is cold straight . Now flex the wire . It is warm . Notice that it stays warm as long as it is flexed .Now release the tension and notice it gets COLDER than your body tempature and stays cold . So this wire produces heat when flexed out of its shape mem ory and when it returns to the shape it is set to it gets cold .

The attached PDF-File contains a lot of information about "Shape Memory Alloy Heat Engines" and describes a nice machine (see the drawing).

Greetings, Conrad

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-02102001-172947/unrestricted/ETD.pdf (http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-02102001-172947/unrestricted/ETD.pdf)

Hello Conrad, Thanks for the picture of the VT1 . I mentioned this Link on page one about the Vt1 Nitinol Chain and Weights .This is a good idea if some one can manufacture a chain but it took this guy a long time to put that one together .I am using single wire no springs no chain and keeping it as simple as possible to utilize plain warm air and earth cooled water  so this thing can run by itself . I might have a few gears and a pully system to get more torque though for my generator .

Thanks againg and GREETS to you as well .Thanks for the Pics and PDFS again

Gadget  .

Hi gadget
I hope the following video will be off use, these guys sure had some fun


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN7sB6C3GZw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN7sB6C3GZw&feature=related)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_JUYi8n7vE&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_JUYi8n7vE&feature=relmfu)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtBYJsQCrvg&feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtBYJsQCrvg&feature=relmfu)


Kind Regards
Mark Dansie

thanks Mark . Thats what i thought , More Wires more power.. Working here on My setup .
Here is other uses for this stuff unrelated to motors but the dress in a hat at the end  is cool .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCw7rxzJRI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCw7rxzJRI&feature=related)

they should sell more of those hats  ;D

Quote from: gadgetmall on July 15, 2012, 05:29:16 PM
thanks Mark . Thats what i thought , More Wires more power.. Working here on My setup .
Here is other uses for this stuff unrelated to motors but the dress in a hat at the end  is cool .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCw7rxzJRI&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCw7rxzJRI&feature=related)

Just... WOW! :)

BTW that lady at the end forgot to put her underwear on... lol

about SMA heat engine, here there's another interesting design:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6482709/Nickel-Titanium-Heat-Engine

cheers  :)

@andrea
That is an interesting application. Rather than the entire housing you might be able to use a hydraulic ram.
Mark

Quote from: Lakes on July 16, 2012, 04:38:23 AM
Just... WOW! :)

BTW that lady at the end forgot to put her underwear on... lol

and she forgot the power of the photo flash to reveal.

Quote from: markdansie on July 16, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
@andrea
That is an interesting application. Rather than the entire housing you might be able to use a hydraulic ram.
Mark

Mmm I can't figure it. May you draw a scheme? Thanks  :)

OK i Scored a broken thermobile and have had a bit of a Eureka moment . I made a Nitinol Wire loop that is sensitive to air temperature . i warmed the brass pulley to body temperature then  moved from room to room in my house which is about 75-77f depending where you are and got my Annealed air temp loop on the thermobile to spin with just the air temp change . :) Video is uploading now .Link in a few.

http://youtu.be/dAmQUZDYRe8 (http://youtu.be/dAmQUZDYRe8)

I do not know about any other wires other than the guy selling the 40 foot roll Nitinol Wire but i Annealed this wire just before the color changed and got My best results . the wire is light blue at this stage . it is very sensitive to air that is 75-98.6f  I call this Air temp nitinol because it only need body temp and air to react and create motion on pulleys .Now that i have a working model i am putting the finishing touches on my 6 pulley air temp Nitinol  motor and calling it the ATM (Air Temp Motor) .Remember that this wire was supposed to react to 125f if annealed with very high heat as described in Nitinol Annealing pdfs everywhere on the Internet . what they don't tell you is if you don't use high heat you get a highly reactive tuned Nitinol in the range i am working in . I already have another design in mind . It will be a Triangle with three  brass heat points and three air cooling points along the line segments  . Nitinol seems to like brass and brass transfers and holds warmth very well.
A note About the antique Vintage TherMobile . They are not manufactured since the 80's and are Very rare . I was already offered 200 dollars for mine after i fixed it and do not want to sell it . These may be worth more . They do have an expensive alternative the Heatmobile purchased here http://www.grand-illusions.com/acatalog/Heatmobile.html (http://www.grand-illusions.com/acatalog/Heatmobile.html)
Gadget .

Hi Gadget,

That is excellent, very little temperature change.

Another idea is the difference in temperature between the ground floor and attic. If you ever walked into the attic in the summer time you'll know the huge difference. Take a stove pipe and mount two pulleys into the ends of the pipe with your wire. Attached is a cutaway view.

Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on July 17, 2012, 02:58:26 PM
Hi Gadget,

That is excellent, very little temperature change.

Another idea is the difference in temperature between the ground floor and attic. If you ever walked into the attic in the summer time you'll know the huge difference. Take a stove pipe and mount two pulleys into the ends of the pipe with your wire. Attached is a cutaway view.

Actually this is kind of what i was looking for . Now you have made it a bit simple for me:) Instead of using the  attic and the lower floor  i could use a hole in the earth for the cool section and just expose the upper portion to the Summer heat .. And in the winter maybe enclose the upper portion in glass for the hot house effect. i like it .Thank you .

anyone else working on Nitinol ?

Early next month I will be doing quite a bit
Will keep you informed
Kind Regards
Mark

Hi gadget and other experimenters.
This is a must see video and has a lot of important information
Mark


http://vimeo.com/45924783 (http://vimeo.com/45924783)

I guess Mr. Banks has been working with this material for about 40 years and he says here that it has potential.


Have any practical devices been developed yet?


I have not seen any so far.


Very sad indeed.

Hi Resin Rat
I agree with your comments, it is sad. Interesting material however looks like a lot of fun. Has a personality lol
Mark

Hi guys . It's up to us to develop a useful device . The Oil Company s certainly don't want us to have free energy .  And they sure don't want Nitinol Motors that run from air temperature Differential that is a god given  everyday  occurrence. I like the pipe setup DreamThinkBuild rendered . As simple as it seems this could be put in your ceiling bathroom exaust fan holes and easily made to spin dc Motors which Charge caps or batteries and run lights . But I am building this to go in the Ground outside . I will have to use more than three sets of Wheels . I am using a Vintage erector set (Mecanno) and having a Blast Adding Pulleys and Loops of Nitinol . Once I get enough torque on My axle and maintain some Flywheels i should have a generator model working . I don't intent to leave my valuable Toys out side permanently to rust so Eventually Plastic Framing will be the way to go and Nylon and carbon Fiber axles ..The Nitinol Won't rust or wear out as it is Nickle and titanium .. Brass will turn green but stainless or aluminum pulleys won't . Been Thinking of using a BIG heavy flywheel i have off one of those Exercise Bikes . It has a Sprocket on it and once it is spun up by hand it only need a little help to keep it going . and it will rip your fingers off . I know i made a Bedeni magnet experiment with it and you cant stop it with the sprocket. Ok been Busy on several things and keeping My Little girl happy thru summer . It's winding down and about another three weeks school starts again for her  and Me.
Ok will let you see this contraption when i get the time . It has been Extremely HOT here in the east . Every day has been 110+ and ferocious Storms Nearly Every evening ,  There is certainly enuff air heat to run this . I just have to dig a nice deep hole for the temp differential of 25 degrees . 30-40 would be The optimum power.. still waiting for My No contact Thermometers to get a ground reading . I know its cooler in ground . the water well i have is freezing cold and condensates the pipes on the well motor and storage tank.. Ok any Ideas are welcome and i hope some of you grab some of this Stuff . The 40 foot roll is It . Not the "magic" 5 foot piece . I could not get that stuff cold enuff to bend . You need at least 29 degrees F to make it soft because at 32 degrees it still retains it;s shape . The good thing about the Magic 5 foot air temp or body temp wire is it is at its Maximum Strength at 32 degrees F and above ,, This might work in the artic or some place very cold . so 29 f and below it's martensite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martensite) and 33f and above its full austenite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenite) .Looks to be only about 5-7 degree difference on "Magic" Wire . I can't use it .and don't have anything that cold until winter .. But thinking ahead when winter does come I se this outdoor system in reverse . the ground will be heat and the winter air Cold .It Might just work that way too.
Thanks Markdensie for the Video . It was refreshing to see a new Old one by the Man Himself .Mr. Banks.

Been doing a little thinking, based on the original wheel with the two tubs of water.  Instead of trying to have it turn a generator, what about attaching magnets to the outside of the wheel (where the speed is the fastest) and have it passing through wire or whatever to generate electricity there?  Will it not generate more electricity that way?  Of course it could be updated to todays technology (neo magnets, etc).
Mark

That would work fine and doable . i'll order some magnet . This will be good because no cogging if we use air coils .

Right, and less moving parts means less friction and more power/speed :)

Discovery Of Nitinol .

http://www.alienscientist.com/forum/showthread.php?2377-ROSWELL-DEBRIS-Nitinol-Meta-Materials
Another Source
http://www.nitinol.com/products-services/materials-sourcing

I am gathering all the Types Of Nitinol I can get My Hands On . Latest Nitinol  is Much Thicker Not quite Clothes Hanger Thickness . I also want some sheets .One you Guys Get your hands on this Stuff it is hard to put down..So much Energy from a Little Piece .

Gadget

Gadget, you first link to that other site, there is a virus on that site.  Might want to scan your computer.  My norton picked it up and blocked it after picking your link.

Thanks Mark . I dumped Norton 7 years ago because of this  . I use paid Avast and paid Malwarebytes . It's not a virus . The guys site linked an Iframe ,probably one of the videos on there. I detect zero viruses only an iframe. Probable Iframe Injection that google flaged as a probable harmful site because it might inject ads or redirect you to another site. As always always use a good malware detector when Visiting any website , If you think you might have a virus or malware you can download malwarebytes here http://www.malwarebytes.org/lp/malware_lp_form (http://www.malwarebytes.org/lp/malware_lp_form)  or www.malwarebytes.org (http://www.malwarebytes.org) and get it from cnet . Norton is good but it will give you false positives and won't detect all Viruses . Nothing will but i found that Avast will get more of them than Norton . Also the paid Mayware bytes runs in memory and will stop you from going to the iframed site and block you , You have to allow it and even then it protects you from anything harmful entering your system .

For those of you who bought 40 feet roll . The wire is in its unannealed cold drawn condition . This means it is not yet memory metal . You need to anneal it first . Take 1 to 2 inch pieces for start  and reread this thread for some good advice . I now use electricity to anneal mine but you can heat it with a torch . As mentioned by me the outcome will differ according to how much heat you put on these wires. you can overheat the wire and you will need Freeze Spray which is colder than ice to make your wire soft which then you will use more energy that you produce . Don't over heat the wire . I have fine tuned pieces to transform from 55f cold to 75f . The wire will turn a very pretty Blue/purple . I have seen it every color of the rainbow from yellow orange  green to dark red light blue and deep purple  and black. The light blue to deep blue was the best result for air temp work . If you do it like i do it takes 20seconds to anneal a piece 12 inches long from heat to ice water . Use a Container like a pie pan with crushed ice and water for large pieces and use needle nose pliers so you can drop it instantly in the cold water just after you heat it . . The quenching stage i found to be very important . Also the different quenching temps of the water affect the outcome of the phase transitions .. experiment until you get what you need .After that you can Train and exercise your Nitinol to be Very Strong and smart:) 

Here is a Piece Of Nitinol showing the rainbow of colors you can get . I used a torch and this is the result . You get uneven colors and therefore uneven temperature transformations . If you can get it the Blue color or purple that is the best for using cool water or cool air as the martinsite stage . This is the soft stage where you can deform the the wire and it loses its strength and is a wet noodle .
Note . The 2 Pieces you see in the bottom corner i carry in my wallet . One is blue and the other is purple . I keep them with me to show people and made loops on the ends and covered them with white rubber latex so if i drop them they don't vanish. I have lost several pieces already before doing this .They seem to have a stealth property that blends in with the ground .

Interesting link:

http://www.packratworkshop.com/hotwater7.htm

Anyone have tried to build something similar?

Quote from: markdansie on July 22, 2012, 07:23:27 PM
Hi gadget and other experimenters.
This is a must see video and has a lot of important information
Mark


http://vimeo.com/45924783 (http://vimeo.com/45924783)

Interesting looking constructions.  Shape Memory Alloys in general and Ni-Ti, in particular, a lot of research and work has been put into this back in the late 80’s.
Many military and civilian applications, patents issued, etc. a very versatile material and unique for certain solutions. (high pressure fittings in high stress high vibration environments, safety thermal disconnects etc).  Think of it as a one way bimetal that wants to snap when it reaches the transformation temperature and there is still heat transfer available to it. As opposed to a continuous smooth bimetal movement. It also requires a move-back external force to bring it back to initial shape upon cooling.

However; as far as free energy is concerned, all the research  and experiments so far have shown a much lower than 100% efficiency in heat energy to mechanical motion conversion.
Unless a new type of this alloy have been developed, the main issues are the transformation energy of around 24 J/gr and reliable strain cycle life expectancy.
Sure we can get 6-8% strain and recover but only for limited cycles. (it tires and would have to be retrained)
For less than 4% strain it can get to 100,000 cycles before “tiring” but to built a running machine, the strain needs to get less that 1.5% or less than 1% if we want to add some reasonable factor of safety.

Great material.
Good stuff, thanks for the flashback.

Thanks for the comments . Nitinol has been tested but not much info has been released . One thing is for sure is it last and will never lose its programmed shape like you said IF the temp and stress parameters are always keep . It last millions and millions of cycles and will always return unless you stress it beyond its parameters . Also no one to date except me have actually had Nitinol annealed or pure enough to have 55f to 75 f full transition phase and posted their results  so in that respect Nitinol has improved And Nitinol AIR TEMP is Born .  . Nitinol will never wear out as proved by many experiments by the government and scientist as long as you do not stress it beyond it's parameters . Those are determined after its annealed and trained .In bearing lifing tests conducted by NASA in the 80's of Nitinol 60 , SM-100 has been shown to have over twice the life of 440C stainless steel and over ten times the life of conventional titanium alloys with a significantly lower coefficient of friction. The superelastic nature of the material gives it the ability to withstand compression loading of well over 350 ksi with no permanent yielding .

Gadget

Hi, I have been researching and designing Stirling Engines for some time and recently discovered Nitinol.

One thing I haven't seen so far is a Nitinol Engine design that actually uses anything like a real Stirling Engine type configuration. That is, using a "displacer" to very quickly cycle between hot and cold.

I came up with this rough idea for a Nitinol Engine that - instead of having the Nitinol wire looping into separate hot and cold baths of water or whatever it uses a "displacer" or a diaphragm to move the Hot and Cold fluid (Air, water, oil or whatever) back and forth (or probably more practically; up and down) across the stationary Nitinol spring, wire or whatever.

I think a series of these could be coupled together on a crankshaft.

Anyway, here is a rough sketch of the idea.

Quote from: gadgetmall on July 03, 2012, 10:08:49 PM
I recently bought three varities of Nitinol Wire with reaction temps as follows . one is 115 degrees F the next is 98.6F and the third is the new AIR TEMP 70 DEGREES F . they all have infinate memory capibilities as long as the stress and memory temp parameters are met
mY  plans are to make a thermobile type motor with shafts to hold multiple pairs of Nitinol Wheels and connect the shafts to either a small motor/generator or put magnets on the shaft and capture the electricity with coils. The Nitinol can be Bought Cheap as a 300 foot roll cost 99 dollars . and 5 foot sections for 10 dollars . any one want to join in and get the Nitinol motor gen project ideas are welcoms . also any comments welcome . The "Heat" motor will use plain cool water and the outside air temp greater than 69degrees F to run the motor using AIR TEMP NITINOL. there will no need to heat up water as the air itself will supply the heat while the task will be to keep the cold side cooler so a 20 degree differantionl to run the motor . Now here on the East Coast i have recorded 116 degree air temp as we are in a Heat wave so heat is not the problem .Keeping the cool water might be . Possible using the earth ground as an insulator on the cold side of the motor and exposing the hot side to the air .
You can watch a Lecture about the properties and uses here .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpZhSdgdSI&feature=endscreen&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpZhSdgdSI&feature=endscreen&NR=1)
Gadget

Actually, you don't need any specific nitinol to make a heat engine. I have nitinol wire with no memory. The wire is very easy to bend (but still super elastic) at room temperature or lower, but is hard to bend at higher temperatures. Sure this wire can help us capturing the power of different temperatures.


Vidar

Hi Tom Booth and welcome aboard . I need another person interested In Nitinol . I have trained My nitinol to react in just AIR temps and no water or no HOT water should be needed . I like your design . I want to use the Earths Cool underground in the summer  . then use the Earths warmer underground(warmer that outside Winter cold) in the winter . at this point cool is the problem because of all the hot weather we have this year and i have no way to DIG a BIG hole in my yard yet;)

My Wire (i have rolls and rolls of this particular wire there is a difference) has noodle like stage at 50 degrees F and hard as steel stage at 75 degrees F .All my wire is Unannealed  so it must be conditioned before it can transform . I have mastered  the conditioning of THIS WIRE in any range as low as -10f to as high as 175f so this is a First time for any Nitinol to actually work without water ,just normal air .
Albert
AKA
Gadget

Quote from: gadgetmall on September 17, 2012, 03:24:14 PM
Hi Tom Booth and welcome aboard . I need another person interested In Nitinol . I have trained My nitinol to react in just AIR temps and no water or no HOT water should be needed . (...). I have mastered  the conditioning of THIS WIRE in any range as low as -10f to as high as 175f so this is a First time for any Nitinol to actually work without water ,just normal air .
Albert
AKA
Gadget

I could be wrong but my general impression from watching videos of Nitinol transformations on YouTube and such is that Nitinol doesn't conduct heat to or from air anywhere near as quickly or effectively as from direct contact with a liquid.

Like someone blowing hot air from a hair dryer on a Nitinol spring and it rather slowly regains its original shape, by contrast, drop it in hot water and the transformation is nearly instantaneous. I have no direct experience playing with the stuff but I'm guessing that the molecules of a liquid like water, being more densely packed together than the molecules in a gas there would be more kinetic/heat energy transferred more rapidly by the liquid to metal contact than by metal to gas or air. I think the density of the liquid medium is probably a factor.

In other words, I would guess that there are more hot molecules for heat transfer to the Nitinol in a teaspoon of hot water than in a balloon full of hot air though both are at the same temperature.

In the engine design in my previous post, I was thinking that the Nitinol spring would act like the "regenerator" in a Stirling Engine.

That is, the Nitinol would absorb heat as first the Hot fluid flows through and around the spring, then when the direction of the fluid is reversed, the Nitinol would release the heat back into the fluid.

Thats true with cold water and hot water  . But they need energy to be that way  .solar only works in the day and storage last only a few days at best . It is getting cooler in the mornings thank God . yesterday it was 52 f in the morn . I did take a few pieces out side and they immediately became bent under their own weight . took them inside 74 degrees f and the immediately straighten out , so the effect work with plain air if your cold is enough .

My Goal is simple no energy input from man . nature only . we have scorching hot summers 116+f ,twice the needed heat for my wire  and cold ass winters  15f ,thats 5 times colder than it needs to relax.   simple water underground will keep its temperature stable at 42-54f all year long . it's just a matter of the greenhouse effect on top with glass to heat the hot portion .. in the winter ..

you need to get some . it has another strange effect . if you bend it when it's in its hard state it gives off heat . as long as you stress it heat come from it . just as soon as you let the stress off it gets Very Cold /  you can test this with a piece on your upper lip . others have coated the wire with color changing liquid crystals and see the same thing.If ou get some i Highly recommend the 40foot roll for 19.95 shipping included in the us or a dollar extra for over seas . this is the Wire that can be made air temp or whatever. i tried all the other wires and they will not transform to  austenite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austenite) in normal temp . they NEED high heat to transform which is what we don't want . have a look at my motor i made the wire on it ., it runs in plain air in different parts of my house .

http://youtu.be/dAmQUZDYRe8

Quote from: gadgetmall on September 17, 2012, 07:40:08 PM
Thats true with cold water and hot water  . But they need energy to be that way

Well, "plain air" or ambient "needs" energy also. The atmosphere is just one big solar energy or hot air collector. Air works, or can work, it just might require more air flow across the Nitinol or a greater temperature difference I suppose.

Quotesolar only works in the day and storage last only a few days at best . It is getting cooler in the mornings thank God . yesterday it was 52 f in the morn . I did take a few pieces out side and they immediately became bent under their own weight . took them inside 74 degrees f and the immediately straighten out , so the effect work with plain air if your cold is enough .

My Goal is simple no energy input from man . nature only . we have scorching hot summers 116+f ,twice the needed heat for my wire  and cold ass winters  15f ,thats 5 times colder than it needs to relax.   simple water underground will keep its temperature stable at 42-54f all year long . it's just a matter of the greenhouse effect on top with glass to heat the hot portion .. in the winter ..

I would think that this would be possible. The problem as I see it is how to bring the cold from underground and the heat from above together in such a way that they interface with the Nitinol. A long Nitinol wire looping down into a well and up into a Greenhouse might just work but seems rather impractical to me from an engineering standpoint.

Suppose you bury a water line underground as a heat sink or cold side and use a simple solar hot water panel above ground. Then it becomes relatively easy to circulate the water so as to bring it into contact with the Nitinol engine at ground level. You could do the same thing with air but the volume of air flow would have to be greater than the volume of water to be circulated.

Quoteyou need to get some . it has another strange effect . if you bend it when it's in its hard state it gives off heat . as long as you stress it heat come from it . just as soon as you let the stress off it gets Very Cold /  you can test this with a piece on your upper lip . others have coated the wire with color changing liquid crystals and see the same thing.

Are you saying that - for example, if you bend it so that it gets hot and then clamp the ends in a vice or something to keep it bent it will stay hot - indefinitely ? or do you have to keep flexing it ? If kept bent, will it not cool off eventually ? Or if you bend it and then dunk it in ice water what happens ? If it actually stays hot or continues to give off heat just by keeping it bent that would seem to be some kind of spontaneous creation of heat and a potential source of energy in itself.

Quotehave a look at my motor i made the wire on it ., it runs in plain air in different parts of my house .

http://youtu.be/dAmQUZDYRe8

I watched the video, forgive my skepticism but it appears you keep spinning it with your finger. I would have to assume some slight temperature difference. Residual heat from you finger warming up the brass wheel slightly or some air movement or draft in different parts of the house or something, but if it can run on just such a slight temperature difference it is still rather astounding. On the other hand, if the wire gives off or creates heat and cold just from the stress of being bent, perhaps to some degree it is creating its own temperature differential just from flexing and unflexing due to being bent around the wheels. But if so, it would appear that this only continues for a short time and then it needs another nudge from your finger to get it going again.

I was also thinking that, at least in the summer, it might be possible to make an Ambient heat engine with Nitinol using plain Ambient air as a heat source and simple evaporative cooling as a heat sink. Here is a video of a guy running a Stirling Low Temperature Differential engine on nothing more than Ambient Heat and the evaporative cooling from a wet piece of paper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ARD3ctp80ac

There is a very interesting article by Nikola Tesla:

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1900-06-00.htm

He seems to have believed that there is a kind of loophole in the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

If you create an artificial heat sink, he reasoned, then the heat in the atmosphere would flow into it and the energy from that ambient heat could be harnessed with some kind of heat engine. What he said was that since the heat used by the heat engine is CONVERTED to some other form of energy other than heat, electricity for instance, the heat thus converted does not actually get to the heat sink.

In other words, taking your idea of using a deep hole in the ground as a heat sink for ambient heat to run a heat engine, It would be supposed that the heat flowing in, driving the engine would eventually in one way or another of necessity, get into the hole and heat up the hole and the temperature difference would be lost and the engine would stop. Eventually you would have to refrigerate the hole to keep it cold or something or dig another hole. But Tesla's reasoning was that since the heat is CONVERTED to electricity before it gets into the hole the heat, or only a fraction of the heat ever actually reaches the sink and so does not have to be removed as heat. Instead the heat is removed from the hole or kept out of it altogether by being converted to another form. The heat coming in goes out as electricity and so doesn't need to be removed. As a consequence the hole never warms up and so the heat engine running on Ambient heat can continue to operate indefinitely, or at least until the parts wear out.

Hi Tom . Lots of questions . I won't answer all of them now because of time constraints . on bending the wire while it is in austenite phase . Yes it stays hot . . and as i said others have done test on it with Color changing liquid crystals(the kind you see in plastic strips that stick on thermometer and the mood ring stuff) and verified the effect .this is because you are trying to force the crystal lattice atoms pattern of the wires programmed state  in Austenite stage are tightly packed and the wire is fighting back so to speak and the result is heat while in that stress position. When the stress is released the wire gives a sigh with a burst of Colder than ambient and then becomes ambient . This is not your ordinary wire. It wont break if you bend it millions of times within its parameters like steel wire will . In fact just the oppisite . It gets much stronger with each bend Thus Training Nitinol makes it Stronger . This stuff has a life of its own .

the other question i think is My thermobile . You didn't get it or kind of got it . YES it runs from my finger heat and the difference from my hand heat and the room temp . you get it? no one has ever done this before . The thermobile came with standard  high temperature wire that needs extreme heat on the brass from the sun focused on it for several minuets or a very hot torch until the brass gets really hot  and only then will it turn .i replaced it with my wire so i showed a motor that turns only with slight body heat and the cool air of about 75-76 degrees inside my house . so the motor runs from 98.6 to 76f . well within air temperatures and if there was a way to put 98.6 on that brass it would continue to spin in the house . I was showing a brief exposure to hand and finger heat only . As far as it generating its own heat that is a possibility that may help . the point is Ambient temps that do not require energy . it is free energy their for the taking . how water from a panel is not free . It cost for the panel and it cost to circulate it . Ice is not free either unless its winter . so is Born Air temp Nitinol.. .Unfortunately the thermobile is not sold since the early 70's 80's and i wouldn't sell mine for a 1000 dollars because it is an antique.

and as far as using water YES i will use ground water underground and long loops about 2 feet . I only need less than an inch or so to contact the end surface of the ground pulleys . This will work as cool in the summer and hot in the winter . It is the temperature differential i am after of between 25 to 35 degree difference. the higher the difference the faster it turns .It does not matter which end is cold or hot . Works both ways . As i stated and some one drew up some diagrams . three sets of pulleys on shafted bearings . The upper pulleys will be exposed to the elements under glass and have magnets attached around them and energy captured from copper air coils to an electronic circuit for power Lights batterys radio etc..  . the lower chamber will be underground and insulated from above. underground water pool remains same temperature .. If its 15 degrees F outside then under ground its warmer . If its 100 f outside then underground it's cooler . get it "?  My thermobile proved that point and if i were to dunk part of it in water the cool side it would have ran much faster .

BTW - using loops produces more energy for motors of ambient temperatures . I also have made springs as you might have see my example video of those . They are vEry STRONG and can be made to push or pull or lift and drop but how to get them to cycle is another matter .I do own two very large 4 X 8 foot commercial solar hot water panels . these panes create steam in minuets when the bottom pipe is closed and water poured in the top pipe. they get so hot they melt the strongest Pvc . which is why i have not used them except to show off the sun power to a very few in the winter . They need pumps and metal pipe to connect them. rubber car hose might work  but only if a powered circulation pump is running . . with plain wire loops its just the surface of one side of the  pulley that needs to stay one temperature to cycle .

L8r . I am a single dad and time for my Daughter (10) to get home ..

gadget

Quote from: gadgetmall on September 18, 2012, 04:17:49 PM
Hi Tom . Lots of questions . I won't answer all of them now because of time constraints . on bending the wire while it is in austenite phase . Yes it stays hot . . and as i said others have done test on it with Color changing liquid crystals(the kind you see in plastic strips that stick on thermometer and the mood ring stuff) and verified the effect .this is because you are trying to force the crystal lattice atoms pattern of the wires programmed state  in Austenite stage are tightly packed and the wire is fighting back so to speak and the result is heat while in that stress position. When the stress is released the wire gives a sigh with a burst of Colder than ambient and then becomes ambient . This is not your ordinary wire.

I saw this demonstrated in the lecture about Nitinol you posted at the beginning of this topic. The demonstration was brief but the girl volunteer confirmed the effect. What I find hard to believe is that the bent Nitinol, put under stress could STAY hot. I would assume it doesn't give up the heat generated easily but if it just stays hot from being bent,... why not just bend some Nitinol wire, lock it in that position and put this Nitinol "heating unit" under a Stirling Engine ?

Quote
the other question i think is My thermobile . You didn't get it or kind of got it . YES it runs from my finger heat and the difference from my hand heat and the room temp . you get it? no one has ever done this before . .

Yes. That certainly is rather remarkable, that you can train the Nitinol to respond  with such a slight temperature difference.

Quote... the point is Ambient temps that do not require energy . it is free energy their for the taking . hot water from a panel is not free . It cost for the panel and it cost to circulate it . Ice is not free either unless its winter . so is Born Air temp Nitinol..

Well. not to be a "wet blanket" but Nitinol isn't exactly free either. "Ambient" isn't at a stable temperature from day to night, summer to winter or even due to a passing cloud from one moment to the next. A given piece of Nitinol has a rather narrow operating range or transformation temperature. You wouldn't really need a hot water solar collector that gets hot enough to melt PVC pipe, but I would think that it would be easier to keep temperatures within certain parameters or operating range with water as a buffer. Even water just sitting in a tank at Ambient. The temperature of the water would remain much more stable than the air which would tend to change with the direction of the wind.

I like the idea of using Ambient heat as a free energy source, but you need to make or somehow get or maintain cold to get a temperature differential.

I've had a lot of debates with thermodynamics people about this. But I think it should be easier to maintain a "sink" with a heat pump by pumping out excess heat if necessary and use Ambient as a heat source than using ambient as the sink. As you say the ambient heat is free and virtually limitless. If you have or make some sort of "sink" and your engine converts the heat to some other form of energy then, as Tesla pointed out in his article, there will be less excess heat reaching the sink. The heat pump would have little work to do to maintain the sink.

But whatever, what I'm curious about at this point is,... if a bent piece of Nitinol gives off heat CONTINUALLY so long as it is kept bent, scrap all the other stuff and just run a heat engine off that. Why not ? Bend some Nitinol, lock it in that position and use it as a heating element to heat hot water or whatever. I still need convincing that the Nitinol will just STAY HOT. That seems unlikely if not impossible to me. If true then it seems to me it would have to be generating heat and would constitute a "free energy" source in itself.

If you are bending it in your hands then there would be some continual flexing as it would be impossible to hold perfectly still. That could account for some generation of heat, but if you bend it and clamp it in a vice so it can't move at all ?

This is giving me all kinds of ideas of ways to utilize this, you could turn wave motion on a boat into hot and cold by having the waves flex some nitinol. A solid state air-conditioner. Flex the nitinol one way for heat and let it go for cold...

Hi  thanks for the response . Good info . When i say HOT i mean hotter than 98.6 . i have not measured it as this Nitinol is only 0.20 mm .. I do have 0.45 in a flat wire also . It is not enough heat to boil anything:) I can see your point though , why not make a big stranded blanket out  of these and possibly stay warm in the winter ..

What I mean is; An LTD Stirling Engine will run on the heat from your hand. If the Nitinol stays hot enough to FEEL hot to the touch it should be hot enough to run a Stirling Engine, but what this sounds like to me is a refrigeration cycle.

In a refrigerator a gas is compressed to force it to change phase (condense into a liquid). At that point it gives up a lot of heat which is released to the room through the condenser coils on the back of the refrigerator by convection. Then when the refrigerant is released and allowed to expand it reclaims the heat it lost while under pressure (gets cold) producing the refrigerating effect inside the freezer.

Generally phase change takes place gradually at a constant temperature, like ice melting at 32 F. It can take a long time but eventually all the ice melts (or all the water freezes).

So what I'm thinking is that the bending of the nitinol is more or less equivalent to the compression phase in refrigeration where the refrigerant changes phase from a gas to a liquid under pressure. When the Nitinol is released it tries to reclaim the heat it lost like a refrigerant when it is released from pressure and allowed to change phase back into a gas.

So what I'm imagining is that the Nitinol when bent is going through some kind of gradual phase change similar to water freezing. It will continue to give off heat at a constant temperature for a long time until the phase change is complete, but my guess is that it will cool off eventually. Like a block of ice melting, that could take hours or even days.

The fact that the Nitinol gets cold when released from stress indicates to me that it has given up heat that it then wants to reclaim when released from being bent. I'm guessing that as in any phase change, this takes place gradually over time at a constant temperature. Like a pot of boiling water will stay at 212 F until all the water changes phase no mater that you keep adding more heat or a block of ice will stay at 32 F until it all melts.

In other words, I think the bent or stressed Nitinol may give up heat gradually at a constant temperature, say a little above body temperature, but in a normal phase change this cannot continue indefinitely, though I don't discount the possibility that with Nitinol, perhaps something abnormal is going on and the phase change never completes due to some sort of quantum mechanical brownian motion or cashmere effect or something. If that is the case that would be really remarkable but my guess is that eventually the bent Nitinol will cool down completely.

I wonder if anyone has ever done this (bent nitinol to get it hot) to see what happens using an infrared camera. That might be interesting.

Anyway I need to send away for some of this stuff ASAP I think.

BTW, after posting, I see advertisement links appearing in the text of my post that I didn't put there. Is that normal for this site or have I picked up some kind of adware on my computer ? 

Quote from: Tom Booth on September 19, 2012, 11:12:31 AM
BTW, after posting, I see advertisement links appearing in the text of my post that I didn't put there. Is that normal for this site or have I picked up some kind of adware on my computer ?

I think that is pretty normal. The site drips with advertising which is why every page
is so data bulky.

Hi Tom . Very nice explanation but i am not a physicist and all i know is what i see and do . That is a good suggestion . I will try and find that information i was reading where scientist  put the color changing thermal liquid crystal on it . they see what i see but  infrared imagery would be real proof  .

This only works if the Nitinol is in its austinite stage or it's parent state . As long as the wire is in that stage where it is stiff as steel wire and has a strain put on it it crys heat . Now i got several pieces i keep in my pocket for demos on the go . Springs and stuff i made with it and i can bend the stiffest piece i annealed for temp range above 100f  and it does stay warm even in my cool house / I tried this unscientific by bending it on my lip and feeling the heat and waiting ,then place the unstrained wire on my lip it feels cool like the air temperature in here now 73f it really don't conduct heat from my body and stays kind of cool.You would think it would conduct my body heat and transfer it to the metal . it don't do it very well  . I also tried bending it off my lip then wait a min and put it on my lip and it is very warm . just as soon as i start to release  some of the strain pressure it starts to get colder than the room temp then it seems to return to ambient temperature or just a bit under . The cold is really quite cold .and the heat is an amazing plus considering it looks just like wire . i also tried this with guitar string . nada.. :)

I hope i am not loosing my mind here and i know someone else has some Nitinol in my thread so if you do please speak up and verify this this if you can.

Tom i recommend that 40 foot roll to everyone as i have tested all of the ones available including Magic wire and Dental brace wires. I Do like the 0.025X0.045 thermal dental brace wire from China. it is flat and Strong as hell and comes pre conditioned in a U shape and holds it's shape if you bend it in 50 degrees It transforms fast and super strong . and these  can be tuned easy with just some small batteries or ultra caps like i use . I tried the others as well much thinner brace wire (11cents a pack of 10) and has to be annealed first . The key to getting it close as possible to martinsite with no elasticity at room temperature is the key reason this wire is the right mixture of Ni Ti . i understand from reading that just 1 thousandth more or less will make inferior Nitinol for the purpose i  am using it for . 

Gadget

gadgetmall, I wouldn't sweat it too much. I believe your perceptions are most likely correct and you are not going crazy or anything, it is just hard to believe.

But there are many strange phenomenon in Physics, under certain conditions.

Like at the "triple point", water can freeze and boil at the same time.

The properties of Nitinol are so unusual I wouldn't really put anything past it. Still, I would like to get some and make some of these kinds of observations for myself. My intention is to do just that ASAP.

I went to one website recently that advertised small Nitinol strips of some sort that sounded interesting. there wasn't any price. I emailed for a price quote which I just got back today:

Length                       : 20mm
Quantity                     : 1 pc          Price : $ 1088.00 / pc

Needless to say I'll be looking elsewhere. I noticed you posted some links earlier to some Nitinol wire for sale on Ebay for about $20 or something. I'll check it out.

Quote from: Tom Booth on September 19, 2012, 05:29:39 PM
gadgetmall, I wouldn't sweat it too much. I believe your perceptions are most likely correct and you are not going crazy or anything, it is just hard to believe.

But there are many strange phenomenon in Physics, under certain conditions.

Like at the "triple point", water can freeze and boil at the same time.

The properties of Nitinol are so unusual I wouldn't really put anything past it. Still, I would like to get some and make some of these kinds of observations for myself. My intention is to do just that ASAP.

I went to one website recently that advertised small Nitinol strips of some sort that sounded interesting. there wasn't any price. I emailed for a price quote which I just got back today:

Length                       : 20mm
Quantity                     : 1 pc          Price : $ 1088.00 / pc

Needless to say I'll be looking elsewhere. I noticed you posted some links earlier to some Nitinol wire for sale on Ebay for about $20 or something. I'll check it out.

O yea jdmedical . gave me a quote like that too it was for just a little  strip . and forget www.nitinol.com (http://www.nitinol.com) unless you are really rich .they thinks its gold because they sell to the medical industry that  use it for stents and teeth. I don't think they have caught on that is also comes from china a 500 times cheaper and in the Quality we are getting it off Ebay :)  16 grams for 19.95 shipping included .the guy who is selling it is also a Nitinol motor maker and sent me some of his Special wire because i bought so much . it is 0.23 . it takes a LOT of cold for that one though .. The guy i posted the link IS the best around in the US and the quality is very high . .
I will keep you posted as progress is made .thanks for the input .


BTW . you can KILL your nitinol with too much heat during annealing and after too . i have several pieces that are dead because i fried them to the point they are just pieces of wire and will hardly move at all .
Albert 

Quote from: gadgetmall on September 19, 2012, 09:33:11 PM
BTW . you can KILL your nitinol with too much heat during annealing and after too . i have several pieces that are dead because i fried them to the point they are just pieces of wire and will hardly move at all .
Albert

About that. Earlier you wrote:

QuoteSome tell you 600c or 1122 c . That is BS . As far as i can tell you do not need to get the wire that hot . In Fact you will damage this wires Crystalline properties and mess it up permanently If you get it much higher than 600-700 degrees F. Heres why thru experimenting i have found the perfect ANNEAL for my Nitinol wire . I took three pieces 6 inches long. the first piece i used three high amperage Ultra super caps at 2.7 volts each and used needle nose pliers connected to neg and pos and let the first wire glow red for a bout three seconds then disconnected it very fast and let it fall in a bowl of ice water . The transformation temp is high as it takes very hot water to transform . The second piece i used two ultra caps 5.4 volts and did the same thing except i let it barley glow then dunked it in ice water . the transformation now occurs at luke warm water ..Now the third piece i used only one 2.7 volt ultra cap .. I watched the wire change color from golden amber to blue,no glow then dunked it in ice water . Now i have air temp Nitinol and will change to the  austenite stage at room temperature and really fast using body temp and it only needs cool water not ice water to make it flexible and in the martensite state . So DO NOT LET THE WIRE GET RED .you only need enough heat to change the wires color then ice water to anneal it to make air temp nitinol.

This is probably an ignorant question but I'm not really familiar with capacitors, except that we used to have fun shocking each other with them in small engine repair class back in high school.

Is there a difference between "ultra caps" and "ultra super caps" ?

Where can I get these - Radio Shack ? I live in the country and there isn't much else around here in terms of electronics. An old computer maybe ? I ave a few of those around.

Any particular brand of ultra cap ?

Why a capacitor and not just a regular battery ?

Also, do you have to wait until it is hot before bending it or could you, for example, if you wanted to make a spring,... wrap it around a ceramic cylinder and clamp it in position and then put the whole thing in a really hot oven (Self cleaning cycle ?).

Is dropping it in ice water absolutely necessary or could you just let it cool down gradually ?

I never worked with this stuff before so I hop you don't mind all the questions. Also I don't want to spend money on the stuff and then just end up ruining it out of sheer ignorance so any additional details, tips or whatever about this annealing process would be welcome.

One other thing. Now if I can remember what it was I wanted to ask.

Oh yeah, the instructions you gave were for a 6 inch piece of Nitinol. What thickness ? What if the piece I want to anneal is shorter, longer, thicker,  thinner...

Probably just have to experiment I guess. I don't suppose you've worked up a specifications chart for annealing different lengths or anything but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

Anything else I would need to know in regard to working with this stuff ?

You mentioned you were on the East Coast and it was 116 degrees at the beginning of the thread. I'm also on the East coast (USA) but further north no doubt as it was hot here (New York) this summer but not THAT hot .

Hey Tom :see this demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWMF3VkI6U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoWMF3VkI6U)
  The Ultra Caps are like batteries . they have massive amperage in a small package . here are the Specs and Brand:
Maxwell ultracapacitors Bcap1200
Capacitance: 1200.0 F -10/+20%
Voltage: 2.7V
Dimensions: L = 74mm, OD = 60.7mm
Temperature Range: -40°C to +65°C

Features:
2.7V operating voltage
Ultra low internal resistance
Over 1 million duty cycles
Threaded terminal

Applications:
Backup power
Grid Stabilization
Transportation
Automotive subsystems
Rail system power

They have them on ebay much higher farads 2700 farads  2.5volts /  will fry penneys in a flash
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Maxwell-2600-Farad-2-5V-Ultracapacitor-solar-power-storage-EV-used-/300634728406?pt=US_UPS_Batteries_Components&;hash=item45ff39e7d6 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Maxwell-2600-Farad-2-5V-Ultracapacitor-solar-power-storage-EV-used-/300634728406?pt=US_UPS_Batteries_Components&hash=item45ff39e7d6)

i use them instead of batteries because they have so much power and last longer than batteries and i can series them to match the wire length Plus they last for months charged up and it takes me 1 Minuit to charge a string of 7 ultra-caps with my 30 amp smart charger. the Nitinol has a high resistance and the longer the more power you need . . i have over 50
of them . ranging from 650 farads to 2700farads all 2.5- 2.7 volts each . i can control the heat with these . i cannot with a battery or a battery does not have enuff amperage to heat the wire to a proper anneal.these  6 of the 650 farads will start my truck or run my inverter . i have some on solar panels and some on projects . they are worth the money as they never wear out over one million charge discharge cycles more than my life time and they are light .

The Length of that roll is 40 feet long . the thickmess is supposed to be .020 about the size of a second string on an electric guitar or the size of a straight pin. it will stick you with a one inch piece .

the pieces i carry on me i put loops on the ends and covered them in latex so i dont get stuck anymore .

you can cut it with a strong pair of cutters but you cannot fatten it up .

The process of anneling is also the process of training the wire to transform from how to cold so yes the hot is quenched with ice cold water . to make a spring i use a ceramic rod and clamp one end wind it [very  very hard to do) and kkep the tention on it with a pair of needle nose pliers and either hit it with a tiny torch on the table running or hot it with super cap set up made to touch the pliers with clips . once it smokes i have a big bowl of crushed ice and water and dunk it my hands and pliers in it then do it over again at least 3-5 times / if you do that you train it to learn warm from cool and change in tap water and inside air .

Quote from: gadgetmall on September 21, 2012, 08:37:36 PM
The Ultra Caps are like batteries .

As they are discharged, does the voltage start dropping immediately, or like
a battery, do you get most of the power at the rated voltage, which drops
as the cap empties?

Quote from: Paul-R on September 22, 2012, 10:36:07 AM
As they are discharged, does the voltage start dropping immediately, or like
a battery, do you get most of the power at the rated voltage, which drops
as the cap empties?

hello Paul-R . the Volts will drop but the current is still there . One of those Big 2700 farads last months of experimenting . you can see in that demo of that particular Ucap that even after shorting and burning it has more power left . Enough to start fires and melt wires even at .5 volts they make wires glow .I think i remember it was calculated that a 650 farad ultracap charged can release 3500 amps all at once but they won't go dead that fast . In a dead short it take a while before all that energy goes away . The amazing thing about them is i can charge one up in less than 20 seconds to full capacity and it will run several circuits for months and months ..That deal on ebay is a steal for less than 25 dollars  . These things 4 years ago were 400 dollars each . and the 650 was close to 190.00 I used to sell them and get them from the manufacture in cases  and sell them at a discount .but soon found out i can get them off ebay for a fraction of the cost . No one can compete with Ebay's prices .Very good value and Quality . However i have bought leaky ones from a seller . They have an electrolyte in them ,just a few drops and i have seen some not welded properly and that poison stuff is gone and the bcap is like a normal capacitor  when i tried and charge them. just a few .

Good for a bit of spot welding then... :)

Quote from: Lakes on September 22, 2012, 12:50:15 PM
Good for a bit of spot welding then... :)

true . carbon rods really light up and get HOT.

Hi Paul-R,

Caps are linear devices, they discharge/charge linearly based on current draw/amps. They lack the Ah of a battery but make up for it in sheer power output(high current)/quick charging time.

Hi Gadget,

Solar+Ultracaps make the perfect couple. I have a solar spot light I got from Lowes and replaced the weak batteries that would be dim by morning with two 3000F ultracaps. It runs all night brightly for a hall light.

Have you tried ambient charging with ultracaps? Short one out through a 10ohm power resistor to about 10mv, take off the load and leave it. Check the voltage in about 2 hours the voltage should start to climb, I usually get about 200mv+ by the end of the day.

Hi Lakes,

Arc welding is easy with them. :)

Inside the Bcap :

An ultracapacitor stores energy electrostatically by polarizing an electrolytic solution. Though it is an electrochemical device there are no chemical reactions involved in its energy storage mechanism. This mechanism is highly reversible, allowing the ultracapacitor to be charged and discharged hundreds of thousands to even millions of times.
An ultracapacitor can be viewed as two non-reactive porous plates suspended within an electrolyte with an applied voltage across the plates. The applied potential on the positive plate attracts the negative ions in the electrolyte, while the potential on the negative plate attracts the positive ions. This effectively creates two layers of capacitive storage, one where the charges are separated at the positive plate, and another at the negative plate.
Conventional electrolytic capacitors storage area is derived from thin plates of flat, conductive material. High capacitance is achieved by winding great lengths of material. Further increases are possible through texturing on its surface, increasing its surface area. A conventional capacitor separates its charged plates with a dielectric material: plastic, paper or ceramic films. The thinner the dielectric the more area can be created within a specified volume. The limitations of the thickness of the dielectric define the surface area achievable.
An ultracapacitor derives its area from a porous carbon-based electrode material. The porous structure of this material allows its surface area to approach 2000 square meters per gram, much greater than can be accomplished using flat or textured films and plates. An ultracapacitors charge separation distance is determined by the size of the ions in the electrolyte, which are attracted to the charged electrode. This charge separation (less than 10 angstroms) is much smaller than can be accomplished using conventional dielectric materials.
The combination of enormous surface area and extremely small charge separation gives the ultracapacitor its outstanding capacitance relative to conventional capacitors.

Quote from: gadgetmall on September 22, 2012, 11:20:56 AM
hello Paul-R . the Volts will drop but the current is still there.

The snag is that many devices need a constant voltage. Is there a circuit that one could
hang off it to supply a steady voltage as the power is drawn?

Quote from: Paul-R on September 23, 2012, 09:44:54 AM
The snag is that many devices need a constant voltage. Is there a circuit that one could
hang off it to supply a steady voltage as the power is drawn?

I've heard that a lot of those hand powered (crank, shake etc ) flash lights use capacitors instead of batteries, so you might want to look in those circuits. As they also need a slow discharge.


example:



http://www.modernoutpost.com/shop/flashlights/335-lightstorm-cl1.html (http://www.modernoutpost.com/shop/flashlights/335-lightstorm-cl1.html)

Quote from: Paul-R on September 23, 2012, 09:44:54 AM
The snag is that many devices need a constant voltage. Is there a circuit that one could
hang off it to supply a steady voltage as the power is drawn?

Hi . paul . sure there is solid state regulators that can do that . I have build a few for lasers because the need 4.5 volts . Most every circuit i have designed or replicated is 1.5 - 1.2 volts  They run constant down to less than .3 volts so the Bcaps serve me well with just a pot in series . My point was they can Anneal Nitinol Wires in a controlled way because the resistance in that wire is almost as high as nichrome wire. takes a lot of current to heat them up properly and evenly . You can't do that with a torch and an oven is only good for shaping the Niti. you can shape it in an oven but the phase change will be wide .I need very narrow for Air temp Phases .

Thanks for the info on the capacitors, I wasn't aware of these advances.

I'm actually 100% off the grid using photovoltaic panels and  replacing worn out deep-cycle batteries every so many years has been something of a nuisance and expense.

Getting back to the hot and cold thing. I thought of one possible explanation.

Perhaps when bent, the Nitinol takes on a characteristic something like aluminum. That is, it becomes a heat "reflector" of sorts, quickly absorbing and releasing ones own body heat when touched. I've sometimes felt what seemed like heat coming off some aluminized insulation but of course it was only reflecting heat from my hand.

When straightened perhaps it becomes more of a heat conductor drawing heat away and so feels cold.

Just a guess. On the other hand you say that this is more than subjective. i.e. causes color changes when a liquid crystal strip thermometer is applied.

At any rate it seems strange that you say heat is felt but not conducted to your hand. I'm not sure what that means really, as the sensation or feeling of heat is (usually) a result of actual heat exchange, except something like a chemical heat, hot pepper sauce or something.

I'm wondering if any extensive research has been done to figure out what exactly is going on, how long does the effect last. (How long does it stay hot after being bent) etc.

If it continues giving off heat for a long time (or seemingly indefinitely) does it then get that much colder when released the longer it has been previously stressed ?

Also I'm wondering if it isn't doing something like conducting heat when bent.

That is, I've only seen this in the video where someone is actually holding and bending the Nitinol with their hands. Theoretically, I suppose the heat could be absorbed at the ends where it is being held in the hand and the heat released at the point where it is bent. That would make it a sort of heat-pump when stressed.

If that were the case it would probably do the same thing even if mechanically bent - absorbing heat from the environment at the unstressed ends and releasing it at the point where stressed. Again that would make it a kind of heat-pump with no moving parts. Even if it were only transporting or conducting heat instead of actually generating heat, that seems incredible enough in itself.

If you (or anyone) know of or come across any additional information/research on this please let me know. It kind of begs some sort of explanation.

there is a nitinol pdf that was on the Internet and can't find it any more. maybe fbi took it out . they seem to want to control the Internet now.

I really think once you feel the power and strength of the work it can do you will understand that that heat cold thing to me interesting but not useful as a motor . loops of this stuff on the  right size pulleys(small) look like the key and lever motors using small pieces straight on a spoke looks promising . It is cooler now and my nitinol is soft outside so i will be testing  a small model out side in a small hole with water bowl insulated from the air  and  brass pulley above ground to test the winter cycle and see if the ground will give me heat instead of cold . if it does give me that 25 30 degree difference the phase change will happen and the flywheel should turn .The flywheel will have magnets on it and capture the field in an air core pickup  and charge a B-cap. Hopefully that b-cap can charge and switch on lights outside .

Notes:The successful development of
commercial heat engines would challenge
at least three competing energy systems in
which considerable money and effort have
long been invested: photovoltaic cells,
solar-power towers and organic-fluid
Rankine turbines. All three systems could
be rendered obsolete by Nitinol heat
engines. According to the latest Navy
figures, a Nitinol heat engine could convert
energy for a mere six percent of the current
cost of photovoltaic conversion. And while
photovoltaic cells are fragile, Nitinol is
tough, and it gets tougher. “Nitinol never
wears out,” says McMillan. “It just keeps
getting better and better.

Liquid Crystal paint supplier http://www.scientificsonline.com/thermal-liquid-crystal-paints.html (http://www.scientificsonline.com/thermal-liquid-crystal-paints.html)

My Nitinol supplier   $19.99  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Elastic-Nitinol-Niti-New-Power-Technology-/330696040468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&;hash=item4cff052014 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Elastic-Nitinol-Niti-New-Power-Technology-/330696040468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cff052014)

Specs of this Nitinol: 40 feet of  .020" diameter super elastic nitinol wire. Ideal for power conversion. It is unformed and requires forming before use. This wire can lift 30 pounds almost 30 inches with a ~30 degree F change.  40 feet weight 16.54 grams.  If you want to drive yourself crazy, try to figure out why this stuff is not over unity.  Here's a design that can run your car.  http://www.pacificsites.com/~snyder/Ebay/Nitinol/high_efficiency_power_conversion.htm (http://www.pacificsites.com/%7Esnyder/Ebay/Nitinol/high_efficiency_power_conversion.htm)

Shipping outside the U.S. is $1.00 He ships it in an envelope and i get it in 2 days after i pay .

Quote from: gadgetmall on September 24, 2012, 07:22:06 AM
there is a nitinol pdf that was on the Internet and can't find it any more.

NASA has done some stuff on it:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=nitinol&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial

The fourth item, "the effects of thermomexchanicla history..." might interest you.

Hi gadget,


I couldn't resist and ordered some as well.


The same as in your link above. 


Now I can play along ;-)

Thanks Paul-R--reading it now .

Awsome CherryMan  . Make sure when you get it to not anneal the whole roll at once . I will help if you need advice
I have had a Lot of Cool Gadgets and Stuff in my days but nothing compares to Nitinol . I don't have anything bad to say about it and Neither do the people who invented(NOL) it except that it would blow the  energy Giants out of business if it caught on..


I was trying to find that info about bending it when its austinite  it give heat and cold when released in that state ..can't find it but did find this :

Stress Induced Transformation Experiment using a Liquid Crystal
The solid-solid phase transformation displayed by SMAs such as NiTi is at the heart of their unique behavior. Students are able to easily grasp the concept of the transformation event when they are able to observe it visually. A dramatic method to observe the NiTi transformation is by employing a liquid crystal that changes color in the appropriate temperature range. In fact, if phase change is the topic of class discussion, the liquid crystal itself is an excellent additional example to consider.
If an austenite wire is loaded in tension, transformation to martensite can be induced. Accompanying this transformation is the release of latent heat. Thermocouples mounted at intervals along the wire can be used to measure the temperature, or a liquid crystal can be used to visualize the transformation front and watch its movement. In a temperature sensitive liquid crystal, an environmental effect such as temperature change impacts the orientation of the liquid crystals. The subtle change in molecular structure affects the wavelength of light that is Figure 3. NiTi wire during absorbed or reflected by the liquid crystal, resulting in an transformation from austenite noticeable change in color of the material. to martensite is shown. The
wire has been painted with a temperature sensitive liquid
To conduct the experiment, acquire NiTi wire (alloy type SE-
crystal so that the
508 (austenite) straight, black oxide finish, diameter 0.02 in.,
transformation front can be
from Nitinol Devices and Components, www.nitinol.com (http://www.nitinol.com)) and
distinguished by the color
liquid crystal (liquid crystal BM/R25C5W/C17-10, 15 g; and
change seen.

I haven't actually held or used one of those Nitinol Thermobile "toys" but somehow they just don't look as though one could develop much torque or power - like maybe you could bring it to a halt just by resting a finger on one of the wheels.

For example, in this YouTube video of a Thermobile type FAN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlxrOHD49ZQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlxrOHD49ZQ)

OK, it turns the little fan, but the guy can stop it to change the direction of rotation, apparently quite easily, just by putting his finger in the way of the fan blade and pushing it in the other direction. Is this a deception ? Is it just because the wheels are made of plastic and not conducting much heat ? Somehow it doesn't look like 50 tons / square inch of force. Why no videos of this stuff actually generating even a little power. Like this "Drinking Bird" toy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq3K6Ma0wIU

Now that's impressive. At least it is shown to be generating some kind of meter-able energy. I would like to see something like that with a Nitinol Thermobile.

On the other hand, if Nitinol has been measured to have 50 TONS of force or pressure per square inch, what would be the force of a .020 wire ? Like 1 ton or something ? 

Has anyone ever tried attaching a small Permanent Magnet DC Motor/generator to one of these Thermobiles to see if, or how much electricity it could generate ? It seems like this would be an easy enough experiment to try.

Anyway, how about an Air-Temperature Nitinol Irrigation pump for third world farmers.

You could probably get a grant. It seems like all the nifty "appropriate technology" stuff is going overseas to some desert country somewhere.

Just set the engine over any body of water that is a few degrees cooler than the air and it will run from the temperature differential. No need for burning all that valuable cow dung needed for heating and cooking to run a Stirling Engine or something. It should work best when it is most needed; (when the air is hot and dry and the fields need irrigating).

Have you tried running your modified air-temperature Thermobile with some COOL tap water. Not ice water but just water relatively cooler than air, with a temperature differential similar to what it would be between any body of standing water or well water and the air ?

Quote from: Tom Booth on September 25, 2012, 11:03:15 AM
I haven't actually held or used one of those Nitinol Thermobile "toys" but somehow they just don't look as though one could develop much torque or power - like maybe you could bring it to a halt just by resting a finger on one of the wheels.

For example, in this YouTube video of a Thermobile type FAN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlxrOHD49ZQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlxrOHD49ZQ)

OK, it turns the little fan, but the guy can stop it to change the direction of rotation, apparently quite easily, just by putting his finger in the way of the fan blade and pushing it in the other direction. Is this a deception ? Is it just because the wheels are made of plastic and not conducting much heat ? Somehow it doesn't look like 50 tons / square inch of force. Why no videos of this stuff actually generating even a little power. Like this "Drinking Bird" toy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq3K6Ma0wIU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq3K6Ma0wIU)

Now that's impressive. At least it is shown to be generating some kind of meter-able energy. I would like to see something like that with a Nitinol Thermobile.

On the other hand, if Nitinol has been measured to have 50 TONS of force or pressure per square inch, what would be the force of a .020 wire ? Like 1 ton or something ? 

Has anyone ever tried attaching a small Permanent Magnet DC Motor/generator to one of these Thermobiles to see if, or how much electricity it could generate ? It seems like this would be an easy enough experiment to try.

Anyway, how about an Air-Temperature Nitinol Irrigation pump for third world farmers.

You could probably get a grant. It seems like all the nifty "appropriate technology" stuff is going overseas to some desert country somewhere.

Just set the engine over any body of water that is a few degrees cooler than the air and it will run from the temperature differential. No need for burning all that valuable cow dung needed for heating and cooking to run a Stirling Engine or something. It should work best when it is most needed; (when the air is hot and dry and the fields need irrigating).

Have you tried running your modified air-temperature Thermobile with some COOL tap water. Not ice water but just water relatively cooler than air, with a temperature differential similar to what it would be between any body of standing water or well water and the air ?

Hi . Tom . there is a Build for 1hp out there . I will have to dig through a bunch of ebooks to find it .

I don't need torque at all . All i want is to Spin Magnets on a small flywheel . I am Using air core coils so there is no cog at all .

O yes cold well water here @ 44f .water on the other end just makes it spin faster   . I played with it this morning outside and it was 46 degrees . warmed it in my hands (brass pulley) and it took off.

I am actually trying some various methods of annealing that other wires i have besides the good stuff(i call it) . so far that other wires on ebay suck . it takes below zero to make it soft , it pretty well stays springy even in cold water so don't waste you money on anything that says "Magic tricks wire" it don't work . looks like any wire kelloggs is selling needs freeze spray or liquid nitrogen to get soft. his air temp wire is just that . it stays stiff as steel in 33f and above  Air.. His body temp stay stiff also at 35f and above . useless .He sells rods also that are .20 dia and 8 inches long for 20 bucks . you need freeze spray for them too.

The 50 foot roll that  are selling on ebay   0.016 are stiff as hell too but  i can get it  to bend in ice water but just as soon as it leaves the water it's springy so it might have some winter value to me..

Now the Good Stuff 0.020 from my seller can be tuned anywhere . it can be soft @74f and below and i can bend it and warm it a bit with my hand and it springs . Wide ranges after tuning . I am glad i got a lot of it before it's gone .

Also the Dental thermal wires (rectangle) 0.21 x .0.025 are excellent . I snagged 4 bags of 10 per pak for 6 bucks . they are pure medical nitinol and can be bent in air below 74 and spring right back to shape in 70 f and above . perfect U shape every time .

As far as power just single straight pieces about 1 1/2 inch provide mass move power especially on lever type motors . i have seen some easy designs that just flip and flop and turn a flywheel and a couple that just move a lever up and down . so a one inch piece when set up in that condition can move 30 lbs. 30 inches with the phase change . Also forgot to mention that this wire is also called Flexinol . It has the ability not only to spring back to a set shape but a straight piece of it with hooks on the ends of this wire expands when cold and contracts when hot so it will lift up heavy objects pulling them up with  just the phase change with the weight of the object on the end with one strand . Up and down . about 8 percent of the length of your strand.

Now that don't sound like much but when i make a one inch spring i make it with about 12-14 inches of nitinol.
that spring can be stretched out cool about 8 inches without damaging its shape and it will pull up a pound or so back to the spring position when warmed back up to room temps.  .

ok gone playing some more

gadget

if the dunking bird put out 1 ua and cost 5 dollars each he needs 1000 birds to make 1 milliamp. :)

5 dollars of Nitinol can spin a wheel of magnets and light lights and charge batteries .

I am working on it . I already see wheels turning ..

Excellent work Gadget, looking forward to your progress  8)

Hi,

This is my first post so I might have missed a previous mention of this but... maybe the best way of getting work out of NiTI is Elastocaloric Cooling, ie, putting the stuff under stress and using the difference in heat (condense) and cold (expand) to run a heat pump.

The following paper in Applied Physics Letters details an available COP of around 11 (eleven). Here is the link:

http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v101/i7/p073904_s1?bypassSSO=1

I just clicked on PDF download and got the whole thing.

Quote from: moflint on October 06, 2012, 12:17:59 PM
Hi,

This is my first post so I might have missed a previous mention of this but... maybe the best way of getting work out of NiTI is Elastocaloric Cooling, ie, putting the stuff under stress and using the difference in heat (condense) and cold (expand) to run a heat pump.

The following paper in Applied Physics Letters details an available COP of around 11 (eleven). Here is the link:

http://apl.aip.org/resource/1/applab/v101/i7/p073904_s1?bypassSSO=1

I just clicked on PDF download and got the whole thing.

It looks like that article was just published a few months ago this year. Very interesting. So the idea of using Nitinol in a refrigeration cycle has already been explored, with apparently very promising results.

It also seems, according to this article, that the stressed Nitinol does cool down to ambient/room air temperature eventually, though this takes several minutes.

Hi tom . Apparently some one is follow my thread and getting grants for this exploration . Chinese no Doubt . Anyways very good . It is now frost and cold as all heck . I have not had the time to explore the ambient motor i built but will very soon . I do see my wires turn to speggittii and they also like the cold to relax . they instantly get hard in the house . very cool stuff .

Gadget .

Hi Gadgetmall,


I'm a bit late in this thread.


In an earlier thread you quoted "looks like any wire kelloggs is selling needs freeze spray or liquid nitrogen to get soft. his air temp wire is just that . it stays stiff as steel in 33f and above  "


Is their AirTemp wire so useless? Also in your experience what is a realistic temperature for their advertised AirTemp wire to become sloppy soft? 


Likewise does this wire change to its rigid state at their indicated 70 degrees C.


I always thought they were a reputable company.


Who from your experience supplies the best priced wire that is sold in smaller lengths


Thanks for you time,


John

Hi everyone,

Here's a rather nice attached article on Nitinol wire and using it. It also has a nice easy Pulse Width device for more effective "training" of Nitinol plus much more.

It originally came from Talking Electronics web page but I converted it to Adobe Pdf for easy reading. Full content credit goes to the articles originator.

Hope this is of use,

John

Hello johntee . Welcome . If you keep reading you will see my supplier . he sells a 40 foot roll. It is the best and i have tried them all . The Main problem with k's wire it takes too much Energy to make it do what can be done with just the energy that is available from the environment. This is a fact .

Thanks for the PWM link . I have mine wire perfected but a pwm wold make it that much simpler .

Gadget

 Hi gadgetmall,

Thanks for your time in replying to my post. I've read all your posts and found your link to the ebay seller but unfortunately his products show as SOLD. Just my bad luck.

Do you post regularly with links to the good stuff?

For reference, I have tried the Kellogg's nitinol wire product and likewise found it less than good as a SMA material. Its ability to change or react to temperature change is useless.

I can't see how they get away with calling, and selling it as Shape Memory Alloy for the one they sold me as such seems to behave like the SuperElastic type ( I think  that's correct) which is  oven heated to 530c and thereafter remains in that ridged condition. It will not react or reshape thereafter at lower temperatures as demonstrated on the many videos. I used a variable 'Digital Temperature Controlled Heat Gun' for heating the wire so it's pretty accurate in that area.

I see from your posts that you've perfected your 'training' with capacitors / current, brilliant work !! 

I actually supplied the Adobe Acrobat pdf converted article from Talking Electronics for the convenience of our members, that allows them to keep a hard copy on their PC for easy reference, also the PWM seems a pretty cool way of conditioning / training the nitinol wire for those not as proficient as yourself.

Thank you once again gadgetmall, I'll have to wait patiently for your lead to some good characteristic SMA. My brain cells have been working overtime just recently on constructive methods of utilizing it for the benefit of all. I will succeed. That's what our site is all about.

Kindest regards,

John in the UK  ;)


"People laugh at me because I AM different, I laugh at them because they are all the same" 

I see there is no more sellers selling the good stuff . I have a lot of it and made sure i would never run out of it . I have bought these and they are nice wire . They are already treated though and will return to the u shape everytime ,http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-Rectangular-Thermally-Denatl-Activated-Nitinol-Arch-Wires-Best-price-/200714255085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&;hash=item2ebb807aed

I have these also .http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENTAL-ORTHODONTIC-WIRES-THERMAL-NITINOL-RECT-HURRY-/310391441334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&;hash=item4844c587b6 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENTAL-ORTHODONTIC-WIRES-THERMAL-NITINOL-RECT-HURRY-/310391441334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4844c587b6)

they are very strong but you need ice water . they do get soft . you get 10 per pack on all the medical dental wires .

I have also tried the other ones no marked as thermal and they work you have to anneal them .

get the biggest size 21 x 25  and also the small ones work really well . The one i like the most is 14 x 25 thermal activated upper . They will turn to noodles in cold water and return to oval U shape in warm air and body temperature . i carry one in y pocket and have amazed quite a few people .

I may just have to sell some of my special wire by the foot . I really do not know where to get this ultra pure grade wire cheap . I know Jd medical wants an arm and a leg for three feet of the wire i bought . 85 us for three feet . Plus shipping . Yeaks.  I can do half that easy .My wire can change in just a 25 degree difference and as you read many different temperature ranges well within Normal Ambient air temps thus we don't need to expend any energy other than what God supplies after it is trained .

Hi gadgetmall,

Thanks for your reply. For my device to work at its most efficient I need wire that will be 'noodle sloppy' in cold ground water at around 40 to 55 degrees F and have a fast transition speed to 'rigid' at 70 to 75 degrees F.

On the above information which of the ones you mentioned in your post above would fall into that temperature category?

I notice on on the first link you gave me to:- 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-Rectangular-Thermally-Denatl-Activated-Nitinol-Arch-Wires-Best-price-/200714255085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&;hash=item2ebb807aed (http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-X-Rectangular-Thermally-Denatl-Activated-Nitinol-Arch-Wires-Best-price-/200714255085?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&;hash=item2ebb807aed)

the Ebay seller just states they are  "THERMALLY ACTIVATED" dental Nitinol wires, there is no mention or indication of transition temperature. If these are suitable which from your experience would be the best sizes to order from those he lists on his Ebay page?

I'm a 66 year old retired pensioner now so I have to spend very carefully these days.

RE: "The one i like the most is 14 x 25 thermal activated upper . They will turn to noodles in cold water and return to oval U shape in warm air and body temperature . i carry one in y pocket and have amazed quite a few people."

I've searched the web for these but cannot specifically locate anything which exactly fits the bill as far as temperature goes. Do you by chance have any lead to the person who is selling these? I do need something which will "turn to noodles in cold water and return to oval U shape in warm air and body temperature"

Sorry, I ask a lot of questions  of you  but I feel you are the most experienced person to guide me on Nitinol use. Many thanks again,

John in the UK.




"People laugh at me because I AM different, I laugh at them because they are all the same"   
:)

Hi. Yes that is the number one problem with finding Nitinol. No one will tell you exactly at what temp it changes . That is because before be there was no published experiments with Ambient Nitinol or there was none until now.

I have the kind that can be trained exactly like that and it is 0.020 diameter . No one is selling it anymore .There is only one place and you have to be rich and that is JDmedical or Nitinol.com . Both of them are more expensive than it's weight in platimium.
As i said the Thermally activated arch wires are the closest thing. I paid 10 cents a pack of 10 long wires . Now they are very much more than that. I have not experimented with them other than take them out of the pack and see that they will get soft in water around 36 37 F  and get strong somewhere near 75-98.6 .. It is cold here in NC but not yet below freezing and still in the 40's 50's .the only wire that changes is the original wire in the 40 foot rolls. It can be trained for  air temps unlike that fake stuff Kelloggs sells. That is not air temp wire . That is not even close to what i have or the thermal arch wire. .
Sorry if i can't help . I can sell a bit of mine but this stuff is very valuable to me . Once you see it work it is one of those things that just needs to be in the safe.

I do sell pieces on craigslist but they  sized about 12 inches for 5 usa postage included . It can be unanealed so an experimenters piece. I cut them up in 2 inch pieces and anneal them for family and friends locally . I also keep several pieces in my pocket in the corner of my wallet . I make small trick wires with latex loops so they don't get lost when you drop them .http://eastnc.craigslist.org/mat/3363835928.html

Gadget

Hi gadgetmall,

Thanks for your speedy reply. If you are willing to sell me some of your wire I'd appreciate that.  I would need 5 foot (60") to evaluate my current project if that is possible. I don't have any capacitors for training the wire, only a variable temperature heat gun to 650 degrees C.


Therefore any exact help using that to train the wire to the cold water / room temperatures I mentioned in my last post would be appreciated

I can pay you by PayPal, although I have never actually paid an individual direct ( Ebay only ) so you'd need to give me details of doing that.

I have just topped up my PayPal account tonight from my bank but the funds will not clear until 21st November so I'd need to wait for that date before I could process the transaction.

I live in the United Kingdom so you need to add postage etc although my last stuff (crap) from Kelloggs came by ordinary letter post.

If everything is OK with you please get back to me with details.

Many thanks again,

John in the UK


"People laugh at me because I AM different, I laugh at them because they are all the same"   

Just some ideas and observations: In general, most of what I've seen as far as uses for Nitinol (power generating uses) involves direct contact with water. My impression is that it does not conduct heat to or from the air as readily or rapidly as it does with a liquid.

So what I've been wondering is if Nitinol used in some power generating application involving heat exchange with AIR might not benefit by having the wire clad with some kind of aluminum or stainless steel fins to assist or speed up heat transfer. This is not uncommon. All sorts of air conditioners, refrigerators, heat pumps etc. use such a method (usually on pipes or tubes, but why not wire?).

I was thinking of something along the lines of these "Wire Wound Fin Tubes" such as illustrated and described on these pages:

http://www.taaming.com/ (http://www.taaming.com/)

http://www.indiamart.com/geiindustrial-systems-ltd/products.html (http://www.indiamart.com/geiindustrial-systems-ltd/products.html)

This might increase heat exchange between the air and the Nitinol while remaining flexible.

Tom . I have had no time to test this YET but i will . The design will use ground temp water bath for the temperature differential using just brass pulleys .
If i can find something finned i would try it . .

Air temp nitinol need only 25 degree difference and it will Immediately phase change around brass ,aluminum or copper  wheels without water in the above ground section. it is metal and can absorb the temperature of the air just as good by itself but metal wheels,especially in 21 degree air like we had a few days here where everything was cold . ..
Cold season appears not a problem but summer days like we had this year(116f) will need some serious cool water underground to touch and a finned wheel is a good idea at least for the below ground area.

i did a small test in 35 degree out side air with an excavated heat tube(produces steam) and of coarse that works very will with just brass pulleys in air .

AI have a lot of work to do . 

Hi, I wasn't thinking in terms of your particular application. I don't know as a wire with aluminum fins would be able to go around a wheel. I was thinking more along the lines of a hot air engine where there would only be hot and cold air contact. Something like the design I posted earlier where hot and cold air would be passed across a nitinol wire (or wires) or springs by means of a Stirling type displacer arrangement to move the air.

The problem being that from my general observations, nitinol does not seem to respond quickly to air temperature changes. From what I understand or have read, such fins can increase the rate of heat exchange several times over in various other more conventional applications like heat pumps, air conditioners etc.

Hi Tom,

You have a very fertile brain, a great quality.

Personally I'm not too sure on the actual characteristics of Nitinol wire yet, I have some on order. Therefore I would open up such concepts as yours to our more experienced members for evaluation and feedback.

Thanks for your posting,

John

Thanks,

Unfortunately, at the moment, my brain is much more fertile than my bank account, so I haven't gotten around to getting my hands on any Nitinol as yet. I could certainly afford the Nitinol. relatively cheap stuff. Building the engine to put it in and test such a concept however is a different story.

I am amazed that Nitinol has not received more attention. Even if you can only get a few watts from a temperature gradient of 50 degrees or less, this could be multiplied. This is bound to make a huge comeback since its discovery. Good work. This has more potential than solar if the prodution price could drop. Is the air changing Ni dopped with Co or just Ni ?
P.S. I lived in Oklahoma for many years and now am a director of a school here in Guatemala. Less than 20 minutes from my house is a huge lake at the foot of an active volcano in the mountains. I took a thermometer with me and the sands of the beach in many places have vents where the temp of the sand stays at a hot 150 deg. F year round. The water just a few feet away during the winter ( winter here is where the temp drops down to 70 but it can get colder at nights. ) is approx 75. Before reading this thread I was considering a sterling app, but now am considering a new approach of a ni engine. Any help anyone could give would be greatly appreciated.

 Hope you guys did not mysteriously disappear   

Hi, I'm new to all of this, and I have enjoyed reading the whole thread. Did you manage to get anywhere with any of your experiments Gadget? It seems odd that its all gone quiet for months - It looked like you were getting there!

Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks,

Luke

Yeah, I'd like for this thread to be active again too.  Just awaiting my batch of nitinol so will report on any experiments I make soon.

It seems that the (avg) price of Nitinol, has dropped well below the $200/lb estimated in the original tech video from Berkley

http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-nitinol-wire.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-nitinol-wire.html)

I see no logical reason, why we are not manufacturing a large quantity of these Heat-Conversion Engines.

Quote from: sm0ky2 on March 17, 2015, 09:52:50 AM
It seems that the (avg) price of Nitinol, has dropped well below the $200/lb

We should be able to  do  better. The stuff is mass produced for dentists for  those wire braces used to bring teenage girls to  the edge of   despair.

Nitinol Engine

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=heatmobile+2.0&tbm=shop&spd=12690262836709216477 (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=heatmobile+2.0&tbm=shop&spd=12690262836709216477)

$21.49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmYqUSDch8



would seem an off balance wheel could be incorporated ...............

gadget's original inspiration from Berkeley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZpZhSdgdSI&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Chet

Don't know if this has been posted here yet?


Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-dCIkJAjyM&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-dCIkJAjyM&spfreload=10)

Luc
back when this was done [5KW nitinol engine] it was very pricey and no one was sharing the Why's or How Too's
a lot has changed price wise ,and hopefully we can make all manner of NiTinol shapes and sizes too ?

some links forwarded from a member here !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atVSxvbiPg0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X0EKbpLuRc

Or simply start here
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rubber+band+heat+engine&view=detail&mid=509A4F229BE8077BA87A509A4F229BE8077BA87A&FORM=VIRE
a nitinol bhaskara wheel
as a test bed
but with more mass in motion [no rubber bands] just off the shelf nitinol wire to start.

all comments welcomed and appreciated

respectfully
Chet K

It is much more efficient to use the mechanical energy of
the Nitinol directly as the driving force.
Rather than using it indirectly to utilize gravity.


Linear actuators could rotate a crankshaft
For example


This stuff needs only very small temperature differences
Which puts it in its' own category of heat engine.
And the extreme nature of the output defines it in a
category separate from the Carnot cycle.


I think the only thing holding us back was the price.
If that's gone down, we can design a limitless array of machinery.

yes cost prohibitive in the early days ,perhaps not as much now [I have read 10 fold reduction in costs] ?

This is supposedly an MIT tutorial on the science behind Nitinol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YVwpBAiA1A

all comments welcomed and appreciated

Chet K

another amazing heat driven engine potential .
[all such gases,fluids or materials need to be considered/evaluated for highest potential in ambient temps ]

go to 4.35 for the "work" says from Zero to 1000 PSI in a few seconds using acetone .

@ will test this claim this week

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Etys8Rt7l8.

Other "SMA Or shape metal alloys

http://web.archive.org/web/20030605085042/http://www.sma-inc.com/SMAPaper.html
link from Ash's old thread here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10592-rubber-band-motor-nitinol-springs.html

to note: NiTinol has been tested in heat engines for dependability with seeming limitless cycles 81 million in
one example,  which after teardown was found to be stronger and more robust than when first installed.
another curious attribute !

all comments welcomed and appreciated

respectfully
Chet K
PS
Gwandau's wheel which was actually a friend of Gwandau in Sweden as I recall , was said to run [as an oddity no power] ?
would be a very inexpensive test bed for a NiTinol  drive IMHO

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N1BoFQp4p9E (http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N1BoFQp4p9E)

The real test for Nitinol would be to graph how much force is exerted from a specific thermal change in a nitinol spring.

Something like:
* Acquire a nitinol spring with a known mass (for example, 10g).
* Attach the spring to a fixed weight and place both in a sealed air-tight container.
* Add a heating element, hair dryer, hot-plate, or other type of heater to the chamber, along with a small fan to recirculate air.
* Graph the change in the mass's height with changes of temperature in the chamber.  That temp gradient is dependent on what variety Nitinol you purchased.

After that is all done, take the mass of the spring and temperature gradients to get joules input to the system. (0.20 cal/g * deg. C for Nitinol)
Graph that against the change in height of the test mass (convert ft-lbs to joules).
The result should look like a 'joules input vs joules output' COP chart spanning a temperature range.

If Nitinol is as magic as it sometimes seems, there should be a small window on that graph where Joules output exceed Joules input.

Nitinol engine are very inefficient<10%). Cost vs output energy is too high for practical use. I have extensive practial experience with Nitinol and Flexinol. The specifications are widely available.

memoryman

this thread Gadgets first reply #1
Quote
This type of Nitinol wire can lift 30 pounds 30 inches with just a 30 degree F shift in tempature differential
end quote

Seems a big movement of a heavy weight at a small temperature differential ?

if accurate

do you have any data
respectfully
Chet K

"This type of Nitinol wire can lift 30 pounds 30 inches with just a 30 degree F shift in tempature differential "
Seems impossible if done directly; see http://www.tinialloy.com/pdf/introductiontosma.pdf

Quote from: Reiyuki on February 22, 2017, 09:00:43 PM
The real test for Nitinol would be to graph how much force is exerted from a specific thermal change in a nitinol spring.

Something like:
* Acquire a nitinol spring with a known mass (for example, 10g).
* Attach the spring to a fixed weight and place both in a sealed air-tight container.
* Add a heating element, hair dryer, hot-plate, or other type of heater to the chamber, along with a small fan to recirculate air.
* Graph the change in the mass's height with changes of temperature in the chamber.  That temp gradient is dependent on what variety Nitinol you purchased.

After that is all done, take the mass of the spring and temperature gradients to get joules input to the system. (0.20 cal/g * deg. C for Nitinol)
Graph that against the change in height of the test mass (convert ft-lbs to joules).
The result should look like a 'joules input vs joules output' COP chart spanning a temperature range.

If Nitinol is as magic as it sometimes seems, there should be a small window on that graph where Joules output exceed Joules input.

As mentioned in the video from the 70's this was done
The results were something to the tune of 75lbs per sq inch
With some negligible temperature difference.
A friction heater using that force could easily achieve.

Quote from: memoryman on February 22, 2017, 09:23:52 PM
Nitinol engine are very inefficient<10%). Cost vs output energy is too high for practical use. I have extensive practial experience with Nitinol and Flexinol. The specifications are widely available.

Not sure what this is based from. Sounds like it could be the toy
Which is just a loop of wire on 2 pulleys.
Many of these are inefficient and just ad-hocked together
The actual engine this was based on used 2 different sized pulleys
And the lower pulley was angled to allow a specific dimension of wire
to be submerged in the warm water. Which gave the motor a higher
efficiency than any Carnot cycle based engine.
In laboratory settings thermal conversion efficiencies of 60-90+%
have been reached. Note that a Carnot engine caps out at 50%


As far as "Flexinol" is concerned, I would steer clear from these guys
They are overpriced and the only real function they serve as a Nitinol
Manufacturer is their ability to fill large bulk orders, such as that required
by large research firms, educational institutions, and NASA.


We have available many low-cost suppliers that can fill our small needs
at a fraction of the cost of "Flexinol". Which is the same alloy, just has a
brand name attached to it.


There are also people that "resell" this stuff. Sometimes for thousands of dollars.
so be careful when purchasing large quantities.


The wire is easy to come by, but the real magic is in plates or strips
The same heat source can provide much more power


There are also many ways to use this stuff, some are better than others
Most of that has to do with the builders engineering skills.
Not the Nitinol itself.
The weighted test gives the most accurate results.
Because we have a direct work function
A Nitinol engine, based on rotary crankshaft, performs tens to hundreds
of times better than an ICE or steam engine, with the same BTU of fuel.
This of course is expanded over longer tests, which is the reason for variance.
But what the tests proved was that the metal itself could replace the
combustion chamber as a piston actuator.
I think this should be a major focus of our tests.
A linear reaction tied to a crankshaft.
I have about 9 days before I get to set my new lab up, but I'll be getting some wire
and as many large pieces as I can afford.
The alloy itself has been standardized to the specs of the most active alloy recipe.
So they are literally the same, regardless of the source.
( 3 forms: memory alloy, superelastic, and the more rare magnetoreactive alloy)


The memory alloy is the one we want for thermal to mechanical conversion


Still thinking through all the ways to achieve linear actuation with the timing of
warm to cold,
My mind made a funny with a tea-light candle on top of a pendulum, so the
flame went back and forth across the Nitinol actuators.
the flywheel stretches the metal back out
the heat "pulls" the crankshaft around.


It's backwards from the ICE, more in line with a vacuum engine, in that it pulls.


Which brings us to the Nitinol Vacuum pump and engine.
The linear actuator operates a piston which draws a vacuum into a chamber.
Through a check valve, resulting in a drop in pressure in the chamber.
This negative (to ambient) pressure can be used in any standard way, or
a small wind turbine jet fan can be placed on the chamber to generate electricity
by stabilizing the vacuum pressure.


Nitinol can also be heated by passing an electric current through the wire.
This incurs a great loss, so it cannot be used for energy generation
However there are infinite applications in robotics, artificial muscles are the new thing.
This, when incorporated with a stabilization of system temperature, (cooling system)
can make a very robust and stable robotics platform, that simulates any form of life.
At least in the muscular sense, (and circulatory when considering the cooling lines)
So far the scientists have stuck to insects and earthworms
But building a humanoid android is not far from reach.


New knowledge and understanding of Nitinol "training" has brought forth
'artificial muscles', that not only can sustain indefinite use, but get stronger
over time, more resilient against factors that reduce 'training'.
This may lead to higher overall efficiency of electro to mechanical conversion
What interesting, is that the circuitry to control a multitude of large muscle groups
made from Nitinol 'muscles', begins to resemble the electrical circuit of a primitive brain.
This can be simplified with IC chips and make it appear less organic on the inside, but
the electrical connections and the way everything is wired up,
It's truly an artificial muscle.
I wouldn't by surprised to see an experiment of Nitinol being actuated by a nerve signal
from one or more of the higher mammals.

I guess they already hooked it up to rats
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9659619/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9659619/)

Not sure what you base your numbers on.
If someone wants to experiment, I have ~900 ft of 0.016" dia Nitinol for sale; shape change temp ~40C. If interested, send a pm.
Flexinol is different from Nitinol in performance; my application was as an actuator, using pulsed current.

Quote from: ramset on February 22, 2017, 11:48:01 PM
memoryman

this thread Gadgets first reply #1
Quote
This type of Nitinol wire can lift 30 pounds 30 inches with just a 30 degree F shift in tempature differential
end quote

Seems a big movement of a heavy weight at a small temperature differential ?

if accurate

do you have any data
respectfully
Chet K

Several top research facilities have quotes 55-75 tons per sq inch, with temps slightly above
room temperature. (70-90F)
The stress state was inconveniently low temp for me personally
Seemed as if the best of these heat reactive alloys is actually powered
by "cold".


Ideally we sacrifice raw power for a trained reactive temperature that is
1) room temperature on the cold side
And
2) not too high on the hot end of things, such as to be easily attainable.


The double-training techniques are interesting because we can set two points
A hot configuration and a cold configuration, making an ideal actuator for oscillatory action.

thermal conversion efficiency would have to be more than
100% efficient for us to use "cold power".
In more detail: we would have to compensate for the energy
we consume while creating the cold situation. Wether it is a refrigerated
fluid, or dry ice, liquid nitrogen, etc.
these systems themselves being less than100% efficient


So to be 'useful' as a thermo-mechanical generator
We need the cold side to be ambient, or within a range we
can sustain with minimal energy input. The hot side therefore
being the driving force of the differential.
These alloys have significantly lower force per mass ratios.
Something like 8lbs per 4% stress.
[why 4%?  This is the limitation of degradation, stresses of greater
than 4% can lead to limitations on the sustainable lifetime of the alloys.
  Within the 4% stress range, prototype engines have sustained billions
of cycles.]


[edit:  sorry forgot a detail- that 8lbs was for the hot side reaction
a 0.5 mm wire coiled spring
      Something like 9 inches in total length. Active temp cold stress (70F)
   Hot memory (110F).]


The memory curie point to train these is something like
916F
And involves locking them in position and repeatedly heating
Then quickly cooling ( ice bath)

I have actually trained my own springs using a small oven (max 1,000degC). The cooling cycle does not have to involve ice water.

Stefan shows with Fresnel lens here

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=overunitydotcom+youtube+nitinol&&view=detail&mid=E24A5C8F531829FA3357E24A5C8F531829FA3357&FORM=VRDGAR

The point for me is that Nitinol engines produce very little power for their cost and size. There are far better heat engines out there.

memoryman
NASA engines ?[Sterling] yes please more info/ideas ?

this Nitinol is cheaper now to play with ... we have been discussing a bit in PM's what is the best wire for My Build [Gwandau hybrid wheel]

I have a weakness for this wheel [I believe it can work] and must build it , but at the same time wish to keep the door open for
a Gwandau/ nitinol hybrid  ,[if the original wheel proves too difficult to replicate.

you should keep in mind that some of us here wish to stimulate younger minds with these builds [involve the kids]
with the whatifs on the kitchen table at night [magnets and gravity and now nitinol....
simple  open source projects...
and yes a sterling engine  does this too but a bit more involved for the kids

respectfully
Chet K

I personally am not interested in the traditional 'OU' ideas involving gravity, buoancy, flywheels, magnets etc, as I see them as dead ends. Involving kids in critical thinking is great (adults too!). Imho critical thinking is key to determine where efforts are most likely to pay off. Don't confuse wild ideas with critical thinking.

Quote from: memoryman on February 24, 2017, 10:36:15 AM
I have actually trained my own springs using a small oven (max 1,000degC). The cooling cycle does not have to involve ice water.

True - any ad-hoc method can produce 'some' functionality
But to truly exploit these alloys I think the methods developed
by the industry over the last 30 years may prove beneficial.
Training techniques have led to higher quality functionality
as well as increased durability.


Recently, these techniques have opened the door to multiple memories
imbedded in the same piece of metal.

Quote from: sm0ky2 on February 23, 2017, 09:57:48 AM
A friction heater using that force could easily achieve.

What about using the movement of one nitinol spring to create friction on the next nitniol spring, creating a kind of cascade-activation?  Lots of outputs from a single input.

Or put it on the spring so the friction aids its own constriction.  That might lower the required thermal gradient.

Quote from: memoryman on February 24, 2017, 11:59:45 AM
The point6 for me is that Nitinol engines produce very little power for their cost and size. There are far better heat engines out there.

Most of this has to do with the particular designs
Not the alloys themselves.


When properly applied, these engines can convert heat to work at rates
quite frankly unheard of in the world of heat engines.


While something like a Sterling Engine can easily outperform Nitinol in terms
of overall efficiency, when waste heat is used and system losses are irrelevant
Nitinol can convert more heat into work per unit time.


Cooling the metal seems to be the major hitch in most designs.
Because of the slow rate of cooling, energy is often dumped into
these systems on the cold side in an attempt to increase cyclical rate.


Which brings up another point - generally the alloys used in robotics have a low temp
operation point. This places them close to their super elastic state after current is stopped.
Inherently this decreases the available force over distance of the actuators.
Therefore current limiting or pulsed current should be employed. To keep from overheating
the alloys. In other words, care should be taken to prevent entering into the superelastic state.


Alloys advertised as "superelastic" have heat activation temperatures lower than ambient.
60F is not uncommon.
A heat engine made from these will run on "cold" rather than heat.
As heating would occur naturally and the cold side would require cooling.
We want alloys with a little less nickel composition.


All of these are (roughly) equal molar mass.
Ti55% and Ti60% are two commonly sold alloys.
In general the more nickel, the lower the heat activation temperature
We don't want our heat engine to use too high of a heat
Nor too cold of a cold.


But rather, the alloy we select should have a near ambient cold temp
and as low of a hot temp as possible.


I will try to compile a list of which NiTi alloys fall into this category.
So we have a baseline to source from.


But i must stress the point:
Training techniques can have as much to do with the functionality of
Nitinol as the composition of the alloy itself.

Quote from: Reiyuki on February 24, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
What about using the movement of one nitinol spring to create friction on the next nitniol spring, creating a kind of cascade-activation?  Lots of outputs from a single input.

Or put it on the spring so the friction aids its own constriction.  That might lower the required thermal gradient.

I like that line of thinking
Use one actuator in the hot stage ,to apply friction to another actuator in the cold stage
Both deforming the metal and partially heating it, so less heat is needed to finish the process.


Unfortunately his metal has no problem absorbing heat. It's a natural heat sink.
The problem is getting the heat to leave the metal.


Maybe connect the actuator to a heat pump to separate temperatures
that cause the engine to run.
Not the air-conditioner type of refrigeration heat pump
I'm thinking more along the lines of a Venturi vortex heat pump
That used airflow from a portion of the actuators motion while leaving
some room for mechanical output.


If I remember correctly we needed 150psi to create 100 degree differential
from ambient air.
Compare that to 55tons per sq in

To understand how this metal works in terms of force
You look at the cross sectional area in the direction of
the working force.


The length of the metal is a factor of the distance this force
is applied over, and is therefore proportional to the work.
The length has no effective value in the equation that determines
the magnitude of that force.


This is distinctly a property of the alloy and its' training.
In a wire - the cross sectional area is the area of a slice
of the wire of infinite thinness.
That is to say: Pi R ^2
R is half of the wire's diameter.

The information in this video contains the inventor of Nitinol
And some of the most basic discoveries.
Including the information provided to McDonald-Douglas
When they began their research.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmYqUSDch8 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oKmYqUSDch8)


Time stamp: 1:34-2:15
This (I believe) is the basic structural approach
to a Nitinol replacement of the combustion chamber.
When attached as linear piston actuators linked to a
crankshaft, rotary motion will be attained.
The combustion chambers, the intake and exhaust systems,
and the fueling system of an ICE can be removed and replaced
with a temperature differential system which contains a heating
system and a cooling system.


The heating system could consist of a trough of warm water
when the piston is compressed, or bent (stressed) by the crankshaft
it curves downward and dips into the warm water ( or fluid) thus
providing a driving force to the crankshaft.
When the metal is "straightened" by the Nitinol action, the cooling
system blasts it with a cooling fan (or circulated fluid, etc).


That's kinda where I'm leaning towards.


I think it is important to analyze each approach in its' own right.
Spring mechanics provides for a wide array of shapes and the work
has already been done for us. However there lies an infinity of
non-conventional spring geometry that was never researched due to
the conservative nature of springs. So for those we are faced with the
raw differential equations and a segment by segment analysis that
rivals each design against the next in a quest for time and resources.
Such time and resources is better spent on the workbench than in the
calculator and notepad. ( for this particular scenario).


Known (common and uncommon) spring designs that have been analyzed
we can simply insert the Nitinol specs into the spring characteristics variables
and see exactly how it will perform. This (I believe) is the basis for almost every
Nitinol mathematical analysis available to us publicly.
I don't think it's because they're lazy, it's  just too much for most to try and do
on their own. I'm still recovering from the gyroscope thing and I only did a dozen
or so. I couldn't imagine the mind boggling task of a full Nitinol mechanical work-up
to relate the metal into our mechanics textbooks.


I don't mind helping out if someone posts an "out of the box" spring design.
But as far as calculating every possibility we have in front of us
You guys are on your own on that one.


Real world tests are probably easier to deal with.


That being said I will discuss over the next few days:
The known Nitinol contraptions, their cons and pros, etc.
As well as several possible Nitinol contraptions, based on
known spring designs. Of which there are enough of, to
recreate every contraption on earth in Nitinol form.
How we get the heat in and out of each system will be a major
determining factor of whether or not someone chooses one design
over another.
It's not just the function of the Nitinol, but our realistic means of
providing the scenario upon which it functions.




Time stamp (in the video at the beginning):
2:50 - 3:50


This horizontal wheel is the worlds first solid-state heat engine.
When the springs contract in the water they push against the water.
Like when the Jesus lizard runs really fast. Except it's  not just surface
tension, its water pressure and gravity and the whole of what keeps
the water in the container. Namely Archemedes Displacement and
water's natural resistance to movement through it, combine to provide
a constant force on the driveshaft as long as the temperature difference
is maintained between the two reservoirs.


More later when I have time to type.

I have some Nitinol somewhere in house from the last time it was a "hype" on OU.


Although neet and interesting, i found it had not much torque and still needs quite an amount of heat.


Some people forget it is also called bi-metal and most people have it in their (gas) stoves as the sensor to turn the gas on or off depending on heat.


Actually you could "easily" make it yourself, bolt two different material ( metal usually ) together at the ends and heat or cool it, it will bend.


Interesting stuff, specially for artificial muscles i think.. But you still need heat.

Nitinol is nothing like bi-metal.

Quote from: memoryman on February 28, 2017, 03:28:34 PM
Nitinol is nothing like bi-metal.

Ok, fair enough, i'dont claim all knowledge, care to tell me the major difference?

Nitinol is an alloy; bi-metal is two dissimilar metals bonded/joined.

Quote from: memoryman on February 28, 2017, 04:13:22 PM
Nitinol is an alloy; bi-metal is two dissimilar metals bonded/joined.

Ok, thanks for replying.


I still think the basics are the same, one substance expanding/contracting more as the other due to a temperature change, resulting in stress on the joints, joint either be molecular or bolts a meter a part
The material will bent or bent back to the same position at the same temperature, unless it is overheated to the materials Curry point and reset.

No; there is no bending or twisting with Nitinol; just 3 dimensional expansion/contraction. Bi-metal does not have a memory effect. They are totally different.

Quote from: memoryman on February 28, 2017, 04:26:57 PM
No; there is no bending or twisting with Nitinol; just 3 dimensional expansion/contraction. Bi-metal does not have a memory effect. They are totally different.

I beg to differ. It's all the same.


With Respect C'man


Edit:  You do realize that Bi-Metal


A: example :  a simpel temperature Bi-metal ( in for example a gas fired camping cooking stove)  is a bi-metal and does not leave the gas on after its first use. ) iow Memory


B: The word Bi-metal does NOT specify the actual chosen metals


C: It's not rocket science, a metal (or actually any substance) has a certain length (expansion)  at a certain temperature, combine two different metals.. there will be an interaction you can exploit, or trouble you, when experience a delta temp.

Combine these two charts wisely and pick your own for your project suitable Bi-metal

If you want to believe that bi-metal and Nitinol are the same or very similar, go ahead. I have no desire to convince you.

Well
it is my impression that reaction time in NiTinol both on and off are amazingly fast as well as Strong and the metallurgy to enable these attributes are quite unique , some sort of crystalline alignment which is very hard to do . falls into a higher level of SMA's [Shape metal alloys]

but I do agree that all similar materials [bimetal]should be familiar to experimenters to perhaps mix attributes in the development of more advanced mechanisms ,

to me this is a fascinating area ,especially with Smoky's observation on multiple programming of the same wire
and the ability to train the wire at will for different tasks .as well as NiTinols limitless cycle times that grow in strength over time.

the repurposing of  Nitinol in endless experimental variations and programming  is the closest thing to magic we could play with [and teach with]

a science which needs growth and evolution ..towards new materials which react in ever more user friendly environments...
perhaps real metal muscles which can work with the tiny stimulus our own muscles do ? 

what fun indeed !![building one test bed as I type this]

hi gang. I see my Air tempature Nitenol thread is still alive. I haven't given up on my ideas and some of you have obtained the correct Nitenol to train the transition to occur at 72 f  like I have . this air temp is as close to a free energy as is comes for creating work but shaping them into springs. they constantly move pulling string near air did the and windows. I have recently purchased a large amount of Nitenol sheets in rolls. this stuff is thick and creates a tremendous
amount of force . a small one inch by 1/4 will push 2 pounds or more across a table. I have yet to use but a tiny piece of about 5 feet by 6 inch roll of it. have a look

a few more pics of this sheet Nitinol.lots of it . it is a coarse texture and super thick and hard to bend in its normal state and the small piece I play with and annealed simple is  smash able when cold and back to super hard and strong when warm. I see many possibilities for this lot .it could raise windows it's so strong..

welcome back to your thread !!

glad to read you are still experimenting here [nitinol] ,and with Sheets now !!
your familiarity and experience will be greatly appreciated .

I'm assembling the  Gwandau wheel below which already uses water ,will be quite easy to adapt a wire frog leg kick drive



respectfully
Chet k

Quote from: Cherryman on February 28, 2017, 04:34:06 PM

I beg to differ. It's all the same.


With Respect C'man


Edit:  You do realize that Bi-Metal


A: example :  a simpel temperature Bi-metal ( in for example a gas fired camping cooking stove)  is a bi-metal and does not leave the gas on after its first use. ) iow Memory


B: The word Bi-metal does NOT specify the actual chosen metals


C: It's not rocket science, a metal (or actually any substance) has a certain length (expansion)  at a certain temperature, combine two different metals.. there will be an interaction you can exploit, or trouble you, when experience a delta temp.

Allow me to add some insight


A bi-metal junction operates by the difference in thermal coefficient of expansion.
As per the graph presented, the most extreme case, of the two metals at the far left
and far right of the chart- don't hold a finger to the reactions that take place in Nitinol.
even a bi-metal junction of nickel and titanium does not perform the same.


The reason for this is because the Nitinol alloy is not a simple bi-metal junction.


It is a stoichiometric alloy of equal molar mass of Nickel and Titanium.
Because of their specific mass, there is slightly more Titanium than Nickel.
the main difference compared to a bi-metal junction


is that it is actual 6 different metals involved and there are trillions of "junctions".
take for example- 4 trillion bi-metal thermostat actuators connected in series
with the same temperature difference that you use it for in your home.
but instead of a bi-metal, you have 6 different metals in each junction.


Inside Nitinol (due to the alloying process and training)
are mixtures of Ti , TiO, Tio2, Ni, NiO, and NiO2
as well as trace amounts of TiO3 and NiO3
which give it its' unique properties.


In fact, the Bi-metal chart mentioned earlier was the basis for
the development of Nitinol, when its' extraordinary properties
we're discovered.


At values ranging from 55 tons to 75 tons per square inch
it is distinctly different from bi-metals, which range in the
order of ft-lbs.

Further research indicates the range of temperature is higher with
larger % of Titanium.


Also, several patents list a mixture of 55%  Nickel / 45% Titanium
in association with large force vectors quoted at 50+ton/sq in
And close to room temp.


Keep in mind this is a cross-sectional area, irrespective of length.
One sq in would be a section of any length of a 1"X1" square rod.
or a circular rod with a diameter of ~1.128379"

I was asked to help locate sources for the metal
Here is one I found for suitable wire.
Although I recommend using strips vs springs or wire.
Wire may be applicable if used in multiple strands.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/262827889667?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275&_mwBanner=1 (http://m.ebay.com/itm/262827889667?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275&_mwBanner=1)


Most sources want us to request a quote.
Possibly due to fluctuations in the market.
The (avg) price should range from $40-60/ kg in bulk.


Word of caution::: do NOT buy from Kellogg Research Labs (KRL)
These guys are out to rip you off, price gouging, and overcharging for the alloy.
It's not often that I bash a company like that, but I feel it is for good reason.
There is no sense in paying what these guys charge, since their prices are
10-100x the $$ from other suppliers.


I will continue to look for viable sources and post what I find here.

Here's a descriptive report, worth a good read
http://cimar.mae.ufl.edu/CIMAR/pages/thesis/santiago_jr.pdf (http://cimar.mae.ufl.edu/CIMAR/pages/thesis/santiago_jr.pdf)
This was submitted as a thesis

Listed in the references (4 and 5) of the above PDF,
Are procedural methods for 'training' Nitinol (and other SMA's)
In singular memory, dual memory, multiple memory, and R-phase
Transformation states.


Also on pg. 14 is a mostly complete list of SMA alloys.
Particular attention is paid to Ni-Ti-Cu
By adding Cu to the alloy, the stress force is decreased
thus increasing net force output, while lowering difference
in temperature. Accompanied by this is an increase in actuation
speed as well as durability of the actuators. Allowing for longer lifespans
and increased frequency of actuation.

Appendix A contains the java code for a Nitinol performance calculator
Shown on page 25.
Different parameters can be entered in, and the characteristics
of the allow are presented by the simulation software.

yes I agree with smokey2. do not buy from Kellogg .I did and they do not have air temp notion as they claim to. it is totally a ripoff as the only way 8 was able to get the wire and rods to relax was way below freezing with salt and ice .about 30 degrees f. us less for our experiments because it takes way more energy to.make it do work verses the wire I bought from another source who is out of it. my wire will transition as low as 72 to 76 degrees for it to relax. training and annealing this wire takes practice as the more heat and the longer it's fired the colder it needs to be before it goes in the martesite stage.remember the normal or parent stage which it is rigid is the austenite stage.when you obtain nitinol be sure it's unanealled if at all possible. my sheets are not annealed.it was very expensive as notion is mainly used in the medical industry and military uses.I would be willing to sell some if anyone wants some.other than jmmedical.com and samaterials.com I am the only other place to buy sheet nitinol or muscle foil as its called.i don't know the exact specs of mine but it is thicker than a razor blade and about 10 sheets of copy paper thick.the edges will cut you if not careful.unlike wire or rods this can be stamped punched cut or even possible to be worked down to thinner specs I suppose by hammering and drawing the metal with a press and cold forging.i don't know I haven't tried to hammer any down yet but I intend to try and make it very thin like aluminum foil thickness if possible.i can say it is hard to cut.you need tin snips as it will dull most tools and sizzors .
this magical metal is unlike any other metal and doesn't compartment to bimetals.it is truly a weird alien metal with a life of its own especially when the two stages are close to normal air tempatures.BTW you can obtain thin wire pieces from eBay that will change stages at body tempatures and be soft with close to cool room Temps buy looking for dental thermally activated Orthodontic NITI. you can get a pack of 10 very cheap from china.like 5 or 10 bucks for 20 . it comes in  a lot of sizes diameters and also they have it in rectangular wires as well.
sheet NITI.ill sell my Sheet NITI at 5 dollars per square inch. or 100 dollars for a 5.1/2 inch by 5 1/2 square sheet plus shipping.the sites above list the same sheet for 2999.00.wow they are higher than gold or platnium.

Nice find Smokey.  Unfortunately it looks like the Java calculator link is dead, so I guess we'll just have to do it by hand  :D

This is the setup I'm going with.  A simple 115degF trained spring and a variable attachable mass.

For temperature control, I'm still deciding whether to just use current to contract the coil, or whether to go with a pump and controlled temperature water-drizzle system.  I'm concerned that simply attaching a thermocouple to the spring could lose a good deal of measurement precision.  Oh well, we'll just have to see.

You can learn a lot from these two sources, in particular the first one is a full teaching and learning package (TLP) that introduces the phenomena of superelasticity and the shape memory effect. It has quite good graphics and animations.

https://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/superelasticity/shape_memory1.php (https://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/superelasticity/shape_memory1.php)

http://www-2.unipv.it/compmech/dissertations/zanaboni.pdf (http://www-2.unipv.it/compmech/dissertations/zanaboni.pdf)

The International Organization on Shape Memory and Superelastic Technologies (SMST) is a volunteer organization made up of industry professionals, scientists and researchers dedicated to disseminating technical education on the unique class of materials which exhibit shape memory and superelastic properties. http://www.asminternational.org/web/smst/home (http://www.asminternational.org/web/smst/home)


tak

Good stuff indeed !!

setting up a wheel test bed for several experiments [including a floor twist drive off the axle

will be adding much more adjustability and other useful Gizmo's

Smoky has a recommendation for A crankshaft / Nitinol drive ,the pedal Assy will be a good test bed there. [the other half of Bike]

will be good to get the Kids interested in magnets , gravity /balance and nitinol/SMA  drive mechanisms ...especially now that I cut their bike in half  :o

Naahhh only kidding [its mine... :P
will be fun indeed !!

Quote from: Reiyuki on March 03, 2017, 10:29:04 AM
Nice find Smokey.  Unfortunately it looks like the Java calculator link is dead, so I guess we'll just have to do it by hand  :D

This is the setup I'm going with.  A simple 115degF trained spring and a variable attachable mass.

For temperature control, I'm still deciding whether to just use current to contract the coil, or whether to go with a pump and controlled temperature water-drizzle system.  I'm concerned that simply attaching a thermocouple to the spring could lose a good deal of measurement precision.  Oh well, we'll just have to see.

Using electricity to actuate the SMA's is abundantly inefficient.
It has niche market value in robotics, but these robots use a lot of energy.
Something to the tune of 12v / 2 A (20-25 Watts)
Where-as raw temperature differences of ~20-40 degrees can do the same thing.

will be including experiments with Shape memory Polymers too
and low temperature Phase change gasses or gasse which react to charge on the off balance wheel too  [looking for a link from Dow ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQqpnAKf9cM 

to be clear ...all will be to teach the kids the "what ifs" and get them away from The Mind numbing ...hand held mental handcuffs which are making them into Drones...

obviously there will be other threads here as these experiments get sorted

we have amazing resources in this open source community ,and many wonderful experimenters ,engineers and scientists

respectfully
Chet K