Overbalanced Wheel created using 3d program. Enjoy.
http://youtu.be/NsRNfTorxnk (http://youtu.be/NsRNfTorxnk)
http://youtu.be/5CB-nV2O_5k (http://youtu.be/5CB-nV2O_5k)
original (almost) wheel
http://youtu.be/sSiB4BTLQ5w (http://youtu.be/sSiB4BTLQ5w)
http://youtu.be/08ZJCZskMfI (http://youtu.be/08ZJCZskMfI)
http://youtu.be/S9ht-rqO2mc (http://youtu.be/S9ht-rqO2mc)
fancy design of wheel
http://youtu.be/DNMG2X2dVLk (http://youtu.be/DNMG2X2dVLk)
http://youtu.be/J2sORTGBZmA (http://youtu.be/J2sORTGBZmA)
Very very nice!
Can you please tell us more on the 3D software used, specifically what parameters where used with regards to friction, gravity, materials, elasticity etc etc.
Just to see if it is viable to try and create a real world model.
Thank you for sharing this.
Hi Helloha,
Welcome to the forum.
Those are interesting designs. What kind of friction settings were used for that model? I don't really trust simulations but the multi-layer design is pretty unique. Looks almost like a double helix path when looked on the edge.
These designs would be good candidates for 3D printers. You can do some crazy stuff with 3D printers that would be near impossible by hand. :)
been using autodesk 3dsmax for modeling and physics simulation. But the software are meant mainly for game and cinematic animation, so accuracy on the physics i don't expect much. Parameters provide basic feature, friction, gravity, elasticity, drag (i think its air drag, no idea). Reason why i only model wheel with balls rotating, ... or maybe its my lack of skills.
if want to real world model, can choose CAD-specific software, like autodesk inventor or solidworks etc
to DreamThinkBuild, same mindset, i also don't fully trust simulations, i use 3d and sim to have better perspective (way better on sketches & papers). actually i was surprised some of the sim can rotate... hmm
drop ball action with wheel
http://youtu.be/1VIYHqRD-Wg (http://youtu.be/1VIYHqRD-Wg)
http://youtu.be/Jm8yPyUq7CE (http://youtu.be/Jm8yPyUq7CE)
update of my latest cg work on overbalanced wheels, enjoy
http://youtu.be/TBYVHU8NY6I (http://youtu.be/TBYVHU8NY6I)
http://youtu.be/iICU3JguC5w (http://youtu.be/iICU3JguC5w)
cartoony visual look of overbalanced wheels
http://youtu.be/1rM36i-41D8 (http://youtu.be/1rM36i-41D8)
http://youtu.be/PQxCMwHI2kc (http://youtu.be/PQxCMwHI2kc)
traditional overbalanced wheel
http://youtu.be/W0OLfA9k_-0 (http://youtu.be/W0OLfA9k_-0)
@helloha
Nice animations! That is an informative way of showing what is REALLY suppose to happen ;D
If you do a build based on your research, I hope you keep us posted.
Wishing you the best.
truesearch
@truesearch
I wouldn't be doing any build as i highly doubt any of the cg will work in reality, as the mass balance doesn't seem right.
Also i don't have any skill for doing wood and metals.
I don't do math or physics but i assume the ascending side always have more total mass/force than descending side, example see the video link (count the total no. of balls on each side).
http://youtu.be/y47LmlHTVhA (http://youtu.be/y47LmlHTVhA)
helloha,
am wondering if I can ask a huge favor of you ? I watched your videos and I must say they are quite impressive.
The favor I am asking is if you could do a small video of the design in the picture. The idea is that water pumps around the outside of the wheel when the weighted levers close the curved boards. It is something I have been working on to build over the last couple of years.
I am going to be building a wood model over the next few months as I do plan on building an actual wheel. It is what I believe Johann Bessler built in the early 1700's. I am not sure if you are familiar with him but there are those of us who do believe he was successful.
Jim
hi johnny874,
as the software i use don't have fluid simulation feature (u mention water pumps, so i assume it need fluid simulation), so i won't be doing video.
but i can model out the wheel based on the pics u attached, hope it help.
helloha (http://www.overunity.com/profile/helloha.3415/)
Very good computer animations.
Thanks for showing them.
yet another new cg
http://youtu.be/FLxQDlD9Gzw (http://youtu.be/FLxQDlD9Gzw)
Quote from: helloha on October 21, 2012, 12:09:13 AM
yet another new cg
http://youtu.be/FLxQDlD9Gzw (http://youtu.be/FLxQDlD9Gzw)
helloha,
Your vidoes are awesome. After looking at the model you made, I am thinking I can build something like that.
It will take me some time to do it but I love the open face it has. Thanks much :D
Jim
Quote from: johnny874 on October 23, 2012, 04:34:37 PM
helloha,
Your vidoes are awesome. After looking at the model you made, I am thinking I can build something like that.
It will take me some time to do it but I love the open face it has. Thanks much :D
Jim
hi jim
simple two words
Do itadd another three words
Best of Luckcheers ;D
Quote from: helloha on October 23, 2012, 11:14:41 PM
hi jim
simple two words
Do it
add another three words
Best of Luck
cheers ;D
Thanks ;) :D
While I admire animations I do not trust them because they can do thing that are not real. With that I'll summarize where I am after many great idea failures of my own. When I see great movements in drawings and animations its not about movements but center of gravity.
So lets get to the basics
to make a balanced wheel rotate you have to shift the CG by lifting
a weight up and that takes work - ie moving something down takes no
work and moving something horizontal takes little work..
I have such a mechanism based on the garage door we all know but then comes
the problem and that is the reset so we can repeat the process. Attracting magnets have the same problem.
So when I look at a movement I look to see where the CG is and frequently the movement ends up making the wheel bottom heavy and that will make it stop.
For example suppose we have weights on a balanced wheel and we move the one at the top up such that the CG is higher and the wheel rotates from that weight rotating and falling to the bottom of the wheel. We used work to move it up and get rotation and we have to use more work to move it back to a balanced position.
So I simply say look at the CG to see if it will work.
Norman
helloha,
This is an idea I've discussed with someone. they tried building it but with how many scissors/levers
it takes, I could understand why they were cool to the idea.
It's based on Bessler's Mt's 25, 26 and 138. When the lever rotates 90 degrees, it would cause the scissors
to fully extend. And when the lever passes bottom center, it would slowly start retracting the scissors.
In the drawing, the scissors have a total of 20 - 2 inch links. And when the lever rotates extending them,
the red line is a link or could be a tether to the top of the scissors. With it being a tether, there would be a
pulley above the scissor and on the bottom of the lever so a line could be looped kind of like a fan belt on a car.
I know it'd be a lot of work but thought I'd mention it. I'm going to take a break from this, it's a lot of
math and that gets old after a while.
With something like this, just one set would show if something like this might be possible and if Bessler
might have done something like this.
Jim
Quote from: johnny874 on October 26, 2012, 02:59:46 PM
With something like this, just one set would show if something like this might be possible and if Bessler
might have done something like this.
Jim
@All,
the trick with something like this is the weight on the scissors would weigh about 10 times as much as the weight on the lever.
With such a ratio, if the scissors open from 28 to 32 inches, the weight on the lever is accounted for and any extra extension would be over balance. Using a distance of 2 inches from center of pivot to center of pivot on the links, a link being pulled down 1.4 inches could open
the scissors as much as 12 inches. In reality, it might only be 10 inches. This would have the equivalent of a 1 1/4 lb. weight being added
to the outside of the wheel.
If pulles were used, they'd be attached to the frame of the wheel and loop like in the drawing. This would mean that as the lever rotated 90 degrees
ahead or 90 degrees back, the scissors would open or close accordingly.
Only reason I mention pulley's is that Bessler said he used them as well as scissors. This si one way the could work together with a lever.
Jim
edited to add; thought I'd mention that with something like this, if the scissors are retracted close to bottom center, then 2 scissors might be extended on the over balance side at the same time. Kind of wish Anthiny Burr were here. He did some really good work with scissors, his shot out like a rocket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlLre-lEgqE&feature=autoplay&list=UUoikS5b8Ybmou9b6KfQl_uw&playnext=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlLre-lEgqE&feature=autoplay&list=UUoikS5b8Ybmou9b6KfQl_uw&playnext=1)
Quote from: norman6538 on October 25, 2012, 07:09:19 AM
So when I look at a movement I look to see where the CG is and frequently the movement ends up making the wheel bottom heavy and that will make it stop.
For example suppose we have weights on a balanced wheel and we move the one at the top up such that the CG is higher and the wheel rotates from that weight rotating and falling to the bottom of the wheel. We used work to move it up and get rotation and we have to use more work to move it back to a balanced position.
So I simply say look at the CG to see if it will work.
Norman
norman, a wise man with a wise word.
unfortunately, i wasnt knowledgeable to determine roughly where center of gravity is. :-[
the bessler wheel is way to advance for normal brain like me to understand ??? :o
yet the same similar cg of previous version, just mirror the model to see how's the outcome.
http://youtu.be/D-R2Q9u8tVg (http://youtu.be/D-R2Q9u8tVg)
Quote from: helloha on October 31, 2012, 08:04:58 AM
norman, a wise man with a wise word.
unfortunately, i wasnt knowledgeable to determine roughly where center of gravity is. :-[
After many failures I got smarter.
There is an interesting discussion going on here where you can see the right shift
of the CG.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12341-mikhail-dmitriyev-input-1000-w-output-near-3000-w-2.html
I like this video best
tips weights by hand and the wheel starts turning partial set of weights
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ikrznic8j9omlgu/k1DwYs7jaV/Videos#f:Stage%201.avi
here he tips the bottom and the wheel starts to turn
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ikrznic8j9omlgu/k1DwYs7jaV/Videos#f:Stage%202.avi
he has it hooked up to an alternator
at 22 secs 3pm extended outside circle
at 3pm the arms are extended 32 secs
Quote from: helloha on October 31, 2012, 08:15:29 AM
yet the same similar cg of previous version, just mirror the model to see how's the outcome.
http://youtu.be/D-R2Q9u8tVg (http://youtu.be/D-R2Q9u8tVg)
helloha,
if one person could do everything, I would be nervous. years ago i built some wheels to test idea's
similar to what you are modeling. One thing I realized is that when the weight is lifted towards the
axle, it resists the motion of the wheel.
What I have since realized is that a simple cog can allow for a weight to be pulled towards the axle
of the wheel while creating little if any resistence. What it does is shorten a line the weight is attached
to.
Hope you don't mind if I used your drawing. the white line shows where over balance is lost. The white circle
shows how the cog can be placed to pull the weight towards center. And the red line of course is the tether.
The math for such a thought is PiR^2/4 - R = x.
An example is 3.142 * 2 squared divided by 4 minus 2 = x.
12.58 / 4 = 3.14 - 2 (the radius) = 1.14
if the radius of the cog is 2 inches, then it could shorten the radial path of a weigth by 1.14 inches. And this
would be with no work being performed, actually, work would be performed but at no cost.
Jim
helloha,
this is about what a basic cog would look like. As the wheel rotates, the line
would wrap around the outside of the cog. after 90 degrees of rotation, the chamfer
the cog has would let the line slip off.
A simple catch for the line could prevent the weight from rolling out again. But that
can weight (wait, pun intended) for another day.
Jim
Quote from: helloha on October 31, 2012, 08:11:02 AM
the bessler wheel is way to advance for normal brain like me to understand ??? :o
helloha,
I started out with basic designs and gradually understood some of the idea's I have today.
I may finally be able to do some building. Kind of wish I had a little bit bigger place to live in.
of course, my landlord may be able to help me.
Jim
helloha,
Think this is something you could do ?
It's also posted in the 7x's thread. It came about by discussing a different idea.
The ramps and lifting belt are next to the wheel.
Jim
did a quick illustration. As long as the 2 gears driving the lift mechanics are 92% the diameter of the one on the outer wheel, the lift will be to the right height.
helloha,
a simple way to try 4 weights.
Jim
adding, the chamfered cog would also be stationary. The disc that would have 4 weights tethered
to it would rotate as the pull of the weights allow it to.
a redesign of a previous model
http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I (http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I)
thks to norman and jim for the links, its very informative.
to jim,
the cog and gear idea seem extremely promising, but its beyond my ability, but still hoped u will continue to perfect the design. ;)
In this video.....
a redesign of a previous model
http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I (http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I)
If you count the balls on the left which is what needs to be heavier and on
the right the left seems to be short some balls so the mass is not greater
on the left than on the right is what I see the problem is.
Norman
a wheel model using 2 full curve
http://youtu.be/y2EhDPqiEi0 (http://youtu.be/y2EhDPqiEi0)
Quote from: norman6538 on November 05, 2012, 07:12:28 AM
In this video.....
a redesign of a previous model
http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I (http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I)
If you count the balls on the left which is what needs to be heavier and on
the right the left seems to be short some balls so the mass is not greater
on the left than on the right is what I see the problem is.
Norman
yap, that design does give mi problem, so revert back to traditional design.
Quote from: helloha on November 13, 2012, 08:39:59 AM
a wheel model using 2 full curve
http://youtu.be/y2EhDPqiEi0 (http://youtu.be/y2EhDPqiEi0)
yap, that design does give mi problem, so revert back to traditional design.
helloha, this is something that some of us have wondered about. If the balls
could roll from the inner curve of the wheel to the other side on it's outer curve.
Then after rotating the wheel, it rolls back to the other side of the wheel and up
it's inner curve again. It might take a ramp next to the wheel for the bearing to
roll on, but the lift and drop would be close, and the ball on the outer curve
would have more leverage.
edited to add; helloha, do you think you could have the parts where the arrows pointed roated
a little bit in those directions ? Basically, just showing the curved part touching the outer wheel and the
weight and it's lever dropping a little.
Jim
Quote from: johnny874 on November 14, 2012, 06:29:42 PM
helloha, this is something that some of us have wondered about. If the balls
could roll from the inner curve of the wheel to the other side on it's outer curve.
Then after rotating the wheel, it rolls back to the other side of the wheel and up
it's inner curve again. It might take a ramp next to the wheel for the bearing to
roll on, but the lift and drop would be close, and the ball on the outer curve
would have more leverage.
edited to add; helloha, do you think you could have the parts where the arrows pointed roated
a little bit in those directions ? Basically, just showing the curved part touching the outer wheel and the
weight and it's lever dropping a little.
Jim
Isn't the idea the sjack abeling wheel? Jim, u bad bad, i visualize myself getting into trouble, NOOOO..... :(
anyway, about the ball rolling onto the ramp, u can take reference from past cg i done here
http://youtu.be/1VIYHqRD-Wg (http://youtu.be/1VIYHqRD-Wg)
http://youtu.be/Jm8yPyUq7CE (http://youtu.be/Jm8yPyUq7CE)
timing is the issue, the ball either will roll to ramp early or late, but never what i expect, and landing on the other side.......sign :'(
but i will be implementing the ramp idea to the rollback wheel, just need to think alot, and trial and error alotttt, but lets take a break first.
The CG in the photos in post 31 seems like it would be below the axle. Great mechanics but bad CG so it probably bottom heavy.
Norman
Quote from: helloha on November 14, 2012, 08:47:31 PM
Isn't the idea the sjack abeling wheel? Jim, u bad bad, i visualize myself getting into trouble, NOOOO..... :(
anyway, about the ball rolling onto the ramp, u can take reference from past cg i done here
http://youtu.be/1VIYHqRD-Wg (http://youtu.be/1VIYHqRD-Wg)
http://youtu.be/Jm8yPyUq7CE (http://youtu.be/Jm8yPyUq7CE)
timing is the issue, the ball either will roll to ramp early or late, but never what i expect, and landing on the other side.......sign :'(
but i will be implementing the ramp idea to the rollback wheel, just need to think alot, and trial and error alotttt, but lets take a break first.
I swear you are a magician helloha. I have done a lot of trial and error myself. Half the fun is trying something.
@Norman, the idea is to pump water with these mechanics. When the weighted lever closes the bottom of the curved pump, water is moved upwards. While helloha shows the pump closed, depending on the placement of the short lever, that could be how it works. And that is a detail that might take some trial and error to learn the proper placement of the short levers.
helloha,
What might be a thought is something close to what you have been trying.
If 4 weights are on the over balanced side and 3 are in the inner under balanced side, there might be a way to get it to work (or almost).
The 4 weights on the over balanced side would be on a round cylinder like what you have been trying, They can be spaced going deeper into the wheel and as the wheel rotates, they move towards the front and a ramp.
When they roll into the inner circle or wheel, there are grooves like the threads on a bolt that push them up a ramp going deeper into the wheel.
This would allow for more weights working than being lifted, in theory anyway.
Jim
helloha,
if you want to try something that might interest you, try over lapping
2 circles and have them rotate in opposite directions.
If you have them over lap at 45 degrees from bottom center, that point would move straight up if there was a slide between the 2 points.
This would mean that the opposite point of either circle should have more potential when moving from 45 degrees from top center to 45 degrees before bottom center.
Jim
at first thought inserting just a ramp should be fast and easy, but no, end up have to adjust almost all the internal structure of the wheel, then have to trial and error to get the timing for the ball rolling off the ramp right.... :'( .... need to rest
http://youtu.be/24oun2FWVVA (http://youtu.be/24oun2FWVVA)
Quote from: johnny874 on November 19, 2012, 09:40:52 AM
helloha,
if you want to try something that might interest you, try over lapping
2 circles and have them rotate in opposite directions.
If you have them over lap at 45 degrees from bottom center, that point would move straight up if there was a slide between the 2 points.
This would mean that the opposite point of either circle should have more potential when moving from 45 degrees from top center to 45 degrees before bottom center.
Jim
the idea on opposite direction is a very good one, try first test but got problem (think its a software bug, anyway its complex, alot of headache), give up
I'll post a drawing tomorrow helloha. not sure how doable it will be but should give everyone the idea.
Jim
helloha,
in this example, the distance from center line or axle to center of mass for the weight on the left is a distance of 1 (1 meter, 100%)
and is lettered A. With B, the distance is .7 (70 cm's or 70%) of A. The difficult part would be to transfer the force of the weight from
1 wheel to both wheels and then back to one wheel.
The line B would have half of the weight's mass on each wheel while it is being lifted straight up. Not sure how it could be put into
a working concept if it is possible. i have bought wood to make a routing table so I can start work on the 4 weighted wheel you modeled for me.
I'll be making it with 8 weights and will be building 2 different wheels. The wheels will use the same basic principle but one will have more detail allowing it to work faster (hopefully). Not sure how long those will take to make.
Jim
p.s. what might be an idea is to have the weight move from one wheel to the other and do a figure 8. but 2 weights should suffice.
edited to add; may consider a 4 weighted wheel trying to replicate the model you posted a few posts back. think it would be kind of cool to
show that your modeling does help that much and to see how close they actually look when compared to each other.
http://youtu.be/gfPYH8pBCgo (http://youtu.be/gfPYH8pBCgo)
just did a extend of the ramp to see how's the balls perform
http://youtu.be/xBjncrYGLJc (http://youtu.be/xBjncrYGLJc)
extend a longer path for the descending weight, but due to poor design (or maybe just impossible), simulation failed, obviously.
will hold on the remodel of the wheel till next year, then maybe redo.
Quote from: helloha on December 05, 2012, 08:18:04 AM
http://youtu.be/xBjncrYGLJc (http://youtu.be/xBjncrYGLJc)
extend a longer path for the descending weight, but due to poor design (or maybe just impossible), simulation failed, obviously.
will hold on the remodel of the wheel till next year, then maybe redo.
helloha,
Once again, a cool design. Not a poor design, just a difficult challenge.
http://youtu.be/p5c1NKIsEbc (http://youtu.be/p5c1NKIsEbc)
extending an even longer ramp length.
althought the simulation is an unsuccess one (maybe because i'm too lazy to go through the phase of trial & error, tweaking & tuning ;D ), but still it's a good presentation on the drawback of using ramp.
To all, merry christmas and a happy new year ;D
...
first try on magnet idea on wheel
http://youtu.be/6XUFDV5nWng (http://youtu.be/6XUFDV5nWng)
this cg is presented only on wireframe view, as i used an older model of wheel, below the link
http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I (http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I)
trying to simulate the action of magnet repel force on the weights by using wind force (as the simulation program do not have magnet feature, so have to make do with wind).
but the wind option does have its cons. although it can set its range, but all the area within the range will be affected by the wind. also both the weights and the wheel are influenced by the wind (only the weights should be, in the case,for magnet).
http://youtu.be/iLwWG99owcw (http://youtu.be/iLwWG99owcw)
no change on wheel, focus on the interior structure of the weight (ball or sphere). The weight is made up of an inner core and outer core, where the inner core is heavier than the outer by 2:1 ratio (depend on individual setting)
the modified weight seem to have a faster reaction speed, but overall for the wheel, don't seem to have much improvement.
the link for the wheel model http://youtu.be/FLxQDlD9Gzw (http://youtu.be/FLxQDlD9Gzw)
and interesting reference for the wheel/weight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAWLLo5cyfE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAWLLo5cyfE)(prefer this conceptual physics because of minimum math involved, as i almost totally don't understand math equation)
http://youtu.be/n_6U-q3O8RI (http://youtu.be/n_6U-q3O8RI)
simulation testings used for future reference (actually my mind still in holiday mood, so only choose stuff that don't require thinking & it's easy to complete)
Take a break:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JED0gMDUJt0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JED0gMDUJt0)
this is mv of theme song of a movie that i watched recently, enjoy.
http://youtu.be/AcXvEjJJFkc (http://youtu.be/AcXvEjJJFkc)
another simulation testings for reference
Take a break:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdQoHqU7VR8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdQoHqU7VR8)
a bgm (background music) that i liked, with good fighting scene, enjoy
Hi Helloha,
I've been enjoying your different experiments with overbalanced wheel designs. It's interesting how one change can make a huge difference.
The movie scenes had very good music, cinematography and choreography. :)
I have a file if you want to test or anyone else that has access to a 3D physics sim.
I used Unity3D but the physics solver is geared as a game engine so it's not realistic to base results on. I'm wondering if a different solver will give different results.
The simplified model is based off the patent description of the Mann Gravity Mover.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Mann_Gravity_Mover
It sounded like tapered bearings pivot on the bottom with a tapered bearings on top and a arm with the ends as giant ball bearings that rides along this. So the taper friction values should be about the same as low friction bearings.
I have the full model attached it is a .obj file. All that needs to be done is just setup physics on the five objects and create a fixed joint from the arm to the weight. The picture shows the setup. Then just play with friction/weight values. You can also try moving or scaling the size of the top and bottom taper.
Take a break. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-llZmPPNwU
http://youtu.be/1xT0I528jew (http://youtu.be/1xT0I528jew)
http://youtu.be/dI2zpKkG7cU (http://youtu.be/dI2zpKkG7cU)
yet another simulation testings for reference. The two link above are based on same model, i just break it into two parts.
the model is based on this http://youtu.be/y2EhDPqiEi0 (http://youtu.be/y2EhDPqiEi0) (this model had been on cold shelf for some time, might as well made use of it)
another presentation on the drawback of using ramp
http://youtu.be/m9u3OYmi7YY (http://youtu.be/m9u3OYmi7YY)
initially intention is to design a failsafe for the previous ramp problem http://youtu.be/p5c1NKIsEbc (http://youtu.be/p5c1NKIsEbc), but end up create another problem :'( , and also didn't get to see the failsafe in action. sigh :-\ .
a design concept using magnet and magnetic shielding, but no youtube video, as i can't do simulation as the software does not have magnet feature, not to said magnetic shielding, ..... also it's still just a design concept.
Take a break:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og70-xgTzYM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og70-xgTzYM) nice song
http://youtu.be/NWysXWPZDSs (http://youtu.be/NWysXWPZDSs)
a model of leonardo da vinci perpetual motion design
http://youtu.be/uSEHbGxNYaI (http://youtu.be/uSEHbGxNYaI)
another model of leonardo da vinci perpetual motion design
http://youtu.be/VooIWLGFq6U (http://youtu.be/VooIWLGFq6U)
yet another model of leonardo da vinci perpetual motion design
been reading the Belt and Pulley Devices http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/pulley.htm (http://www.lhup.edu/%7Edsimanek/museum/themes/pulley.htm), interesting so did a model of the device.
try some simple simulation as cannot do the sim for gear belt, using cloth to act as the belt, but cloth tend to stretch and some other problems.... bottomline don't think it's possible to do a full simulation of the belt/pulley device. (also not uploading the videos to youtube as it's not presentable)
a small idea (basically like an hourglass), focus on an alternative methods for the human powered, beside the classic bike generator or hand generator (which is very tiring).
an alternate or addition or improvised or modified or replacement, or ..... whatever, to the hydroelectric power.
an alternative or addition or improvised or modified or replacement, or ..... whatever, to the hydroelectric power, version II
an alternative or addition or improvised or modified or replacement, or ..... whatever, to the hydroelectric power, version III
http://youtu.be/hLkJyoYOkHw (http://youtu.be/hLkJyoYOkHw)
based on this model http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I (http://youtu.be/UOLPuvsXe9I), but reduce the number of weights/balls, remove the outer shell, slim down the length of the wheel.
http://youtu.be/vHGUQbd6o7E (http://youtu.be/vHGUQbd6o7E)
continue from the above model, this time only very slightly reduce the number of weights/balls, slim down the length of the wheel.
an alternative or addition or improvised or modified or replacement, or ..... whatever, to the hydroelectric power, version IV
http://youtu.be/pT8QDJSnufI (http://youtu.be/pT8QDJSnufI)
only minor modification on the curve and displacement of weights on left/right wheel (to squeeze out as tiny torque force as possible. judging from this wheel, maybe can still design further to push out some more torque force gain)
continue from last post, modify the design further.
http://youtu.be/K4Yk6yDMv5k (http://youtu.be/K4Yk6yDMv5k)
and a further continuum from previous post
Take a break:
Robot Combat League 1st episode (science fiction comes to life)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irb4z3P64zA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irb4z3P64zA)
a small add-on to wheel design
Take a break:
Robot Combat League 2st episode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP_lQQN_F6M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP_lQQN_F6M)
cg modeling of hand crank generator and windmill
Take a break:
a show of human willpower in birdman rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVs5q1quZEI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVs5q1quZEI)
birdman rally (more than an hour show, no subs but action speaks louder than words)
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ3OTIzMzI4.html (http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ3OTIzMzI4.html)
a simple analyzing of wheel model design
Take a break:
Future Technologies coming to life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imbFjtX0Gc0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imbFjtX0Gc0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wjY6HhRSsA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wjY6HhRSsA)
http://youtu.be/UJpFnZnzdZM (http://youtu.be/UJpFnZnzdZM)
simulation testings used for future reference
Take a break:
Nice Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANKU8Db9Dtw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANKU8Db9Dtw)
redesign the single curve of the wheel to double curve.
Take a break:
Woman of Ninja Warriors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHfZvPbCOJU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHfZvPbCOJU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJOqMZOeoCk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJOqMZOeoCk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SivelnhUx5c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SivelnhUx5c)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAqodcpzv1w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAqodcpzv1w)
http://youtu.be/y8-0P6QmvgQ (http://youtu.be/y8-0P6QmvgQ)
a continuum from previous post
found my old wheel modeling (think it's last year when i model this wheel, with failed simulation, obviously) when sorting through my file directory. Showcase this wheel now before it went dormant again.
That wheel is clearly bottom heavy. Look at where the CG is and where the most balls are.
A self rotating wheel will need to be top heavy or side heavy.
It has a great look and great mechanics but.......
Norman
Can some one explain CG to me a bit, for example,
I have a 1 meter stick, at each end is a 50cm wheel with a 1kg weight inside (alternator attached to the inner of the wheel so when the wheel spins the alternator turns).
as the weight will always be at the bottom of the wheel, that would throw the CG down the 1m stick by 25cm.
would that 25cm of off CG be enough to loose any potential power gains?
Second question, regarding the picture below (roughly drawn on paint (im not pc world guy)),
with the electro magnets only kicking in when they are needed, would that cause ou or not?
im sure both these have been tried and tested before, they are just something that have been in my mind for a while.
sorry for not finding the correct places, I just wanted an active forum with allot of expertise looking at it daily.
Quote from: norman6538 on April 20, 2013, 07:43:07 AM
That wheel is clearly bottom heavy. Look at where the CG is and where the most balls are.
A self rotating wheel will need to be top heavy or side heavy.
It has a great look and great mechanics but.......
Norman
Nice description...
and it does look good ;D
Quote from: lightend on April 20, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
Can some one explain CG to me a bit, for example,
I have a 1 meter stick, at each end is a 50cm wheel with a 1kg weight inside (alternator attached to the inner of the wheel so when the wheel spins the alternator turns).
as the weight will always be at the bottom of the wheel, that would throw the CG down the 1m stick by 25cm.
would that 25cm of off CG be enough to loose any potential power gains?
Second question, regarding the picture below (roughly drawn on paint (im not pc world guy)),
with the electro magnets only kicking in when they are needed, would that cause ou or not?
im sure both these have been tried and tested before, they are just something that have been in my mind for a while.
sorry for not finding the correct places, I just wanted an active forum with allot of expertise looking at it daily.
did a modeling of the magnet wheel roughly based on the picture, with some addition stuffs or changes.
u might want to also consider the magnet wheel in outer-space situation, for the fun of it... no gravity, weightless, easy to push/repel with minimum strength (vice versa, easy to stop), with proper setup can have almost zero surface friction (but have magnetic friction, and if generating work, electrical friction, and other other problems :'( )
PS: the thread title CG Showcase, the CG in this case, means Computer Graphics, not center of gravity, just to clear out some confusion and misunderstanding. Center of gravity, learn it, study it but don't really understand it, so i would suggest u to open up new thread to ask the question, and other questions.
Thank you Helloha.
Oh HAHA yeah I got the CG misunderstood. haha. oh well.
I decided to try it and after buying all the things needed found out that the magnets i used were way too strong for the electromagnet. the magnets just stuck to the elec mag. haha. never mind. something I have learned.
just made a picture of what the other thing with the CG possible problem. I can see it will definitely be a problem so wont continue with that (shame as I have 2 large wheels made from 30mm bullet proof glass and the frame made from thick welded steel)
Thanks for the help any way.
back to the drawing board.
http://youtu.be/d_W9NLV_Afk (http://youtu.be/d_W9NLV_Afk)
using wind force to simulate the repel force of magnet (the simulation program do not have magnet feature)
although the wind effect can set within a range, but all area inside the range will be affected (for magnet, it should be around the magnet's area). The wheel and balls are affected by the wind force (only the balls should be influenced by magnet).
ended up a funny and interesting result (can see the balls falling out of the wheel one by one :P ), the wind force pushes the wheel more than the balls, in turn the wheel rolls the balls rather than the opposite.
http://youtu.be/OTdaybVatVk (http://youtu.be/OTdaybVatVk)
a new look and design of overbalanced wheel (got bore with the past wheel designs, all look the same ;D )
concept & design by blade.
http://youtu.be/VbUqlLSnvcg (http://youtu.be/VbUqlLSnvcg)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT4.
Take a break:
Flying Car (only for the rich ^o^)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnF2yua4KIw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnF2yua4KIw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4L1bGS7SCI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4L1bGS7SCI)
Draw a horizontal line through the axle and then see how many balls are above and below
the line and you will see more below and therefore it is bottom heavy but would better
be one side heavy. Some minds can see art in everything but my mind after many failed
devices sees balance or wheel mass.
Looks great but its off balance at the wrong place.
Norman
http://youtu.be/PUJzGXoUjlQ (http://youtu.be/PUJzGXoUjlQ)
(red 'x' label in the video indicates weight/ball removed)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT3.
The balls in the inner circle would be bottom heavy if you draw a line through the axle but
the outer circle warped rectangles might have some build merit.
In the outer circle there are 7 balls above the axle and 9 below - not good.
I do like the right side weight shift but there is also a bottom heavy potential rotating from
4 oclock to 8 oclock.
What does the simulation show?
Norman
http://youtu.be/l_q9sDatCCw (http://youtu.be/l_q9sDatCCw)
(red 'x' label in the video indicates weight/ball removed)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT21.
the 'hinge constraint' function in the simulation software tends to create chao/undesire movement (this problem has been bugging me for months, never like the 'hinge' along with the 'spring', 'rope', 'soft body' and on and on ..... -_-!!! .... signs ... still need to use the 'hinge' for the mt24, mt25..... >o< )
http://youtu.be/Dg-IJocrp2o (http://youtu.be/Dg-IJocrp2o)
(red 'x' label in the video indicates weight/ball removed)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT5.
http://youtu.be/n6N2XG0ZSuA (http://youtu.be/n6N2XG0ZSuA)
(red 'x' label indicates the weight is almost weightless)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT25.
http://youtu.be/x5MnRwJmP34 (http://youtu.be/x5MnRwJmP34)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT26.
http://youtu.be/JWCMpq7pTVE (http://youtu.be/JWCMpq7pTVE)
(red 'x' label in the video indicates the weight is removed)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT125.
So many nice drawings. Too bad that closed looped gravitywheels never will produce excess energy. No need to explain why.
Vidar
http://youtu.be/QtK0tFwJ61c (http://youtu.be/QtK0tFwJ61c)
(red 'x' label in the video indicates the weight is removed)
a computer modelling and simulation based of Bessler's MT19.
Please, share and subscribe to http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim (http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim)
http://youtu.be/R6pHQfZjoaw (http://youtu.be/R6pHQfZjoaw)
(red 'x' label in the video indicates the weight is removed)
a model of leonardo da vinci perpetual motion design.
(the initial intention is to reconstruct Bessler's MT9, but having problem with the 'rope' setup, so by removing the 'rope', the design of the wheel turn out to resemble Mr Vinci's artwork :D , interesting how it turns out)
Please, share and subscribe to my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim (http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim)
http://youtu.be/D6CmcVymbqI (http://youtu.be/D6CmcVymbqI)
checking how the momentum of the center weights/balls performed.
Have an educational break:
Outer-space physics demonstration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUIa685ETgo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUIa685ETgo) water surface tension demo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUAuZnpoZ58 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUAuZnpoZ58)gyroscopes, circular movement, water surface tension demo
an add-on for the wheel
an add-on for the wheel
a layout/setup for the wheels
a layout/setup for the wheels
an add-on for the wheel
http://youtu.be/bitc2xb3nGE (http://youtu.be/bitc2xb3nGE)
trying out the add-on feature for the wheel
simple test demo on locking object in place
simple test demo on locking object in place II
http://youtu.be/IbSjXRMjC7k (http://youtu.be/IbSjXRMjC7k)
implementing the add-on for the traditional overbalanced wheel design
http://youtu.be/PuReg_2OhBQ (http://youtu.be/PuReg_2OhBQ)
a continuum from the previous post,
this time adding more weights on the wheel
simple testing for the add-on I
http://youtu.be/oLGutpAaDmM (http://youtu.be/oLGutpAaDmM)
a continuum from the add-on archives,
this time even more weights on the wheel,
with an extra of behind-the-scene look at the simulation software
simple testing for the add-on II,
change the ball/sphere into cylinder shape
http://youtu.be/_ngIAa9Rdqs (http://youtu.be/_ngIAa9Rdqs)
a slight modification from one of previous add-on model
Please, share and subscribe to my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim (http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim)
http://youtu.be/3PnIrKAJbqY (http://youtu.be/3PnIrKAJbqY)
simulation testings used for future reference
simple testing for the add-on III
http://youtu.be/QaVPZMEnN4I (http://youtu.be/QaVPZMEnN4I)
a further modification from the add-on model
simple testing for the add-on IV
simple testing for the add-on V
simple testing for the add-on VI
http://youtu.be/q2dEqNWK4as (http://youtu.be/q2dEqNWK4as)
extending the weights to outside of the wheel (actually it's still within the wheel)
http://youtu.be/hmnjcrAd68E (http://youtu.be/hmnjcrAd68E)
using cylinder shape, replacing the usual sphere/ball shape, as the weights.
the problem of using the cylinder weight, it tends to halt its movement during simulation.
simple testing for the add-on VI
simple testing for the add-on VII
http://youtu.be/yU4Q9uacIrM (http://youtu.be/yU4Q9uacIrM)
based from the previous posted wheel animation, revert back to using sphere/ball.
result is not what's expected, but still interesting.
http://youtu.be/Q4jSbTWNZDI (http://youtu.be/Q4jSbTWNZDI)
The Snowflake Wheel based on
concept & design by Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer
Those drawings look overly complicated.
Here is a much simpler concept:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIE2Ea45dD4&feature=youtu.be
Quote from: lumen on August 16, 2013, 03:45:58 PM
Those drawings look overly complicated.
Here is a much simpler concept:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIE2Ea45dD4&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIE2Ea45dD4&feature=youtu.be)
Lumen
Not that complicated, just a lot of parts. Helloha does a fine jog of animation and to let you see what he had to work with on mine. Here is the original pictures of my seven year old design and the second version that he is to do later. He has his own designs and deserves a lot of credit for his skill.
Alan
I'm not saying anything about the design work, it's just the ball wheel concept has been worked many different ways and has never shown anything working. At best, they can trick some simulators but never seem to function.
You should have watched the video to the end and seen why it works. Maybe Helloa can do a design of the one in the video?
Yes, an animation! that might be something a bit tough to do though.
Quote from: lumen on August 16, 2013, 07:12:42 PM
I'm not saying anything about the design work, it's just the ball wheel concept has been worked many different ways and has never shown anything working. At best, they can trick some simulators but never seem to function.
You should have watched the video to the end and seen why it works. Maybe Helloa can do a design of the one in the video?
Yes, an animation! that might be something a bit tough to do though.
Well I can tell you that friction is your enemy on what your video had show for that has been tried before as well. I don't have any ball wheels in the works now days but I still have a liking of them. Maybe it is the same as just fond memories. Sometimes I do go back and look at old designs and put my experience to them and since Helloha is doing this I think I will make a few changes to see if I can get a little more out of it. ;) 3.0
Yes, friction is always a problem, but think of a ball wheel using 4 inch diameter steel balls and how tiny the friction would appear.
http://youtu.be/nuNECvi3fn8 (http://youtu.be/nuNECvi3fn8)
extending the weights to outside of wheel, pushing out the weights on the left, pulling in the weights on the right
http://youtu.be/hq5EdW10Q9I (http://youtu.be/hq5EdW10Q9I)
The Snowflake v2.0 based on
concept & design by Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer
http://youtu.be/oQdp8vb4sZo (http://youtu.be/oQdp8vb4sZo)
the spheres/weights rolling onto a different platform (having a different center of gravity) within the wheel
simple testing for the wheel I
http://youtu.be/J9Vo_xikHdo (http://youtu.be/J9Vo_xikHdo)
based on a previous wheel model, modified the "3 by 3 arms" to "6 by 6"
orange sphere/ball indicates the weight/mass is low
simple testing for the add-on VIII, implementing magnets (using wind force to act as magnet) to the test, giving an extra push
trying my hands on wm2d, doing some random simulation, I
trying my hands on wm2d, testing out magnet effect-like simulation, II
using electrostatics to act as magnet
go to "world",
choose "force field",
under sample force choose "electrostatics",
inside the Fx label, "8.99e9" indicates repel, give a negative sign "-8.99e9" attract,
for body with material "steel" will have the effect,
for body with material "wood" will not have the effect,
(under the body properties, either choose the 'material' or change the value of the 'charge')
or very simple,
go to "world",
choose "electrostatics",
check it on,
"8.99e9" indicates repel, give a negative sign "-8.99e9" attract
testing on Murilo's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) I
trying my hands on wm2d, testing out magnet effect-like simulation, III
testing on Murilo's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) II, adding rollers to reduce friction
trying my hands on wm2d, build up an original overbalanced wheel design, IV
testing on M's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) III, additional changes on the top & bottom fulcrum
testing on M's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) IV, adding hooks trying to reduce the chaos movement
trying my hands on wm2d, using script to simulate a simple particle-like effect, V
- rename the file extension .txt to .wbs
- Go to Menu -> Script -> Run -> choose the file
- Press the Run button
testing on M's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) V, change the hooking method and add a ratchet design on the fulcrum to prevent it from rotating the other direction
trying my hands on wm2d, setup and simulate a Bhaskara Wheel, VI
Some animations made ​​a few years ago.
The problem with this system
we lift lower weight but faster !
it conserves energy!
http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=343541Chane3.gif
http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=425490Chane2.gif
http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=917601Chane4.gif
trying my hands on wm2d, what will happen to human in an artificial gravity using centrifugal force (fun stuff), VII
testing on M's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) VI, hook up chains manually on the left side to prevent the chains from lifting up
trying my hands on wm2d, using script to create a sine or cosine waveform, VIII
- rename the file extension .txt to .wbs
- Go to Menu -> Script -> Run -> choose the file
testing on M's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) VII, motion due to a missing chain
a very simple centrifugal motion animation
http://www.mediafire.com/download/8bkm327om7g11k0/centrifugal_motion_demonstration.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/8bkm327om7g11k0/centrifugal_motion_demonstration.rar)
trying my hands on wm2d, model a wheel design (unfortunately simulation took too long so don't bother about it) but still having a large scale size (don't know why when import from other software, with small scale, to wm2d, it ended up having large size) , VIIII
trying my hands on wm2d, model a wheel design (simulation prompt too much problems, so give up on it), X
a very simple centrifugal gravity animation
http://www.mediafire.com/download/qpzg34pn3xoqx5q/centrifugal_Gravity_Demonstration.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/qpzg34pn3xoqx5q/centrifugal_Gravity_Demonstration.rar)
Hi Helloha,
While cleaning files from the hard drive I found this sim I did from the Mann gravity mover. The friction was set to about that of smooth steel on steel with lube, COEF 0.3. The real design would use bearings.
The way I see it would work is we have a moveable lever. This lever with two ball bearings sits in a cup at the bottom and a tapered cone at the top.
An outside lever with a lever offset it attached to a weight adds a torque to the bottom of the main lever. It wants to push the bottom up when vertical but as it rides the curve it gets to a point where it reaches a horizontal maximum then is pulled back down.
There is a added nutation to the end as it tries to balance itself. It can never really find balance because the heavy weight is also adding a turning torque to the end of the ball bearing which corkscrews(twisting) the main lever up and down the curve.
It's like taking a marble, spinning it while rolling it around in a rounded salad bowl. The spin will make it climb the side of the bowl to a certain maximum then fall back down tracing an elliptical orbit in the bowl.
A wheel would eliminate a lot of the vibration in the main lever and keep the nutation to a smaller amplitude.
In the very beginning of the video the main lever is 90 degrees up. If you go frame by frame and watch the arrows you can see the weight, torque the bottom bearing up the side of the cup.
The bottom cup and top taper must be a proper curve and radius otherwise the sim would not work.
PS: I had to downsample it, the original was 219mb.
This is only a sim so take it for what it is. :)
Sorry for double post but I also have the patent here. Max 6mb limit on a post. ::)
a very simple centrifugal animation, used the previous clips but this time from the perspective view of the rotating medium
http://www.mediafire.com/download/c2v5eo1yn8xi5f1/centrifugal_from_rotating_reference_frame.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/c2v5eo1yn8xi5f1/centrifugal_from_rotating_reference_frame.rar)
trying my hands on wm2d, model a part of wheel design, XI
trying my hands on wm2d, model from previous wheel design, only little change, XII
testing on M's Avalanchedrive (lookalike edition) VIII, testing on simple hook/lock design
trying my hands on wm2d, model from previous wheel design, again only slight change, XIII
trying my hands on wm2d, model based on the crop circle design taken from http://www.overunity.com/13758/ufo-crop-circle-info-ou-overbalanced-wheels/msg369155/#msg369155 (http://www.overunity.com/../../../../../../13758/ufo-crop-circle-info-ou-overbalanced-wheels/#.UjVJfoFGZJk), XIIII
simple testing for the add-on VIIII, connect the left and right using spring (or rod)
http://youtu.be/l3DCZuuhE7s (http://youtu.be/l3DCZuuhE7s)
a wheel model based on a previous design done using wm2d here http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg370503/#msg370503 (http://www.overunity.com/../../../../msg370503/#msg370503)
Please, share and subscribe to my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim (http://www.youtube.com/pumpkinlim)
http://youtu.be/hSZLbtq0qdE (http://youtu.be/hSZLbtq0qdE)
model a 3d crop circle design wheel, its wm2d version can be found here http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg370767/#msg370767 (http://www.overunity.com/../../../../msg370767/#msg370767)
simple testing for the add-on X, test on how spring and ramp perform
http://www.mediafire.com/download/a0t4v94vrbk9tn7/ramp_and_spring_test.avi (http://www.mediafire.com/download/a0t4v94vrbk9tn7/ramp_and_spring_test.avi)
Hi helloha, do you could to test this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdigocIvRMg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdigocIvRMg)
thanks in advance
Quote from: alfilmx on September 20, 2013, 07:50:41 PM
Hi helloha, do you could to test this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdigocIvRMg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdigocIvRMg)
thanks in advance
No can't, too complex, but a interesting one, thks for introducing
trying my hands on wm2d, demonstration of behavior between magnet and its influence on metal objects via see-saw, XV
trying my hands on wm2d, a model of Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer's wheel design, XVI
http://youtu.be/n9fGbLFJX9g (http://youtu.be/n9fGbLFJX9g)
Just a random wheel model
trying my hands on wm2d, testing springs on wheel, XVII
trying my hands on wm2d, a model of Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer's Connectivity Test, XVIII
trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects, XVIIII
trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects, XX
http://youtu.be/HuDCqth5Tqk (http://youtu.be/HuDCqth5Tqk)
wheel model "Connectivity Test" based on concept and design by Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer
http://youtu.be/C-IIS-YdjZM (http://youtu.be/C-IIS-YdjZM)
a previously posted video demo, this time uploaded to youtube.
a series of computer simulation of motion that demonstrate a centrifugal-like motion
trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects, XXI
trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects, XXII
trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects, connecting the rollers together with springs, XXIII
trying my hands on wm2d, just testing around mindlessly ^o^, XXIIII
trying my hands on wm2d, just testing around mindlessly ^o^, it seems there is a problem when the rod is intersecting/crossing over the pin joint (it bounce back unnaturally), XXV
trying my hands on wm2d, found a wheel design "Flail Wheel" by besslerwheel.com member KAS, thought i can use it for more wm2d practice, XXVI
trying my hands on wm2d, an unsuccessful setup of wheel (but still a good try ^o^), XXVII
http://youtu.be/iEio6vN_MZg (http://youtu.be/iEio6vN_MZg)
a previously posted video demo, this time uploaded to youtube.
a computer simulation of motion that demonstrate artificial gravity using centrifugal-like motion.
trying my hands on wm2d, wheel models based on besslerwheel.com member preoccupied's design, XXVIII - XXX
trying my hands on wm2d, testing on the rollback system, XXXI
XXX-II. trying my hands on wm2d, a slight tweak from number XXVII
XXX-III. trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet on levitation
XXX-I III. trying my hands on wm2d, testing on the rollback system
simple testing for the add-on X, in regarding to issue on "collide/no collide situation" in wm2d no.XXX-II, using path shifting technique to resolve the issue
XXX-V. trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet on levitation
XXX-VI. trying my hands on wm2d, a model of Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer's Wonky Star
XXX-VII. trying my hands on wm2d, Wonky Star 2.0 having addition of another layer to double its arm/weights
simple testing for the add-on XI, just testing around :D
the wm2d version is here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg372449/#msg372449
XXX-VIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Wonky Star 2.1 a patch fix, weights and ropes conformed to their respective layers
in reference to the techniques in add-on XI, a test to determine how many arms is required for the wheel to turn a certain degree
XXX-VIIII. trying my hands on wm2d, test using 8 by 8 arms
XXX-X. trying my hands on wm2d, test using 16 by 16 arms
continue from above post
XXX-XI. trying my hands on wm2d, test using 24 by 24 arms
XXX-XII. trying my hands on wm2d, fun with magnet, a railgun shoot
XXX-XIII. trying my hands on wm2d, an unsuccessful try at implementing magnet to wheel, intention is to achieve self-looping
XXX-XIV. trying my hands on wm2d, a model of Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer's Abspiral Ball
XXX-XV. trying my hands on wm2d, Abspiral Ball 2.0 having addition of another layer/disk to double its arm/weights
XXX-XVI. trying my hands on wm2d, Abspiral Ball 2.0 increase to quad layers
Take note:
as the Abspiral Ball's motion concept require the ability to shift the balls along the z-axis, so using wm2d for simulation isn't suitable. For some form of testing, there will be undesired results eg. the ball will drop out of wheel
simple testing for the add-on XII, pushing the weight sideways
continue from wm2d no.XXX-XIII, still an unsuccessful try at implementing magnet to wheel
XXX-XVII. trying my hands on wm2d, change curve to straight line
XXX-XVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, addition of more arms
in reference to the techniques in add-on XI and continuum from wm2d no.XXX-X, a test to determine how many arms is required for the wheel to turn a certain degree
XXX-XVI III. trying my hands on wm2d, test using 10 by 10 arms
XXX-XX. trying my hands on wm2d, test using 20 by 20 arms
XXX-XXI. trying my hands on wm2d, fun with magnet, a railgun or a magnet gun shooting
http://youtu.be/tl3D8YJzTJM (http://youtu.be/tl3D8YJzTJM)
also refer to "simple testing for the add-on X"and wm2d no. XXX-II
XXX-XXII. trying my hands on wm2d, testing on the rollback system with add-on
XXX-XXIII, trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and rolling object
Testing IDEAS no.I
http://youtu.be/PX5sX7EXums (http://youtu.be/PX5sX7EXums)
wheel model "Wonky Star" based on concept and design by Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer
XXX-XXIV. trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects
XXX-XXV. trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects
XXX-XXVI. trying my hands on wm2d, testing of the magnet and objects, object moving toward magnet on flat plane and object moving away on an inclined slope of around 2 degrees
XXX-XXVII. trying my hands on wm2d, assuming one wheel turning magnet clockwise direction, another one turning the coil anti-clockwise direction
more on 3d artwork version here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg356581/#msg356581
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg364464/#msg364464
http://youtu.be/9jiR1ULFrz0 (http://youtu.be/9jiR1ULFrz0)
wheel model "Abspiral Ball" based on concept and design by Alan Bauldree ANA AB Hammer
wm2d version here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg374331/#msg374331
XXX-XXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, testing on the rollback system, connecting the rollers in opposite side with spring
XXX-XXVI III. trying my hands on wm2d, fun with magnet, a rail hammer banging
XXX-XXX. trying my hands on wm2d, testing between magnet and its influence on metal objects via see-saw 'again', this time just include the option to tune its mass
XXX-XXX-I. trying my hands on wm2d, found a wheel design "Flail II" by besslerwheel.com member KAS, thought i can use it for more wm2d practice
http://youtu.be/LSwBlp4x6Eg (http://youtu.be/LSwBlp4x6Eg)
wheel model based on concept and design by Jonathan Perry AKA preoccupied from besslerwheel.com
simple testing for the add-on XIII, pushing the weight sideways with some path reduction viewed from front
XXX-XXX-II. trying my hands on wm2d, a simple version of the rarEnergia by Renato Ribeiro, some part left out as having no idea what it does
XXX-XXX-III. trying my hands on wm2d, a simple version of the rarEnergia, duplicate its arms to 4, unfortunately when trying to go for 8 arms, the infamous 'not enough memory' pop up....... oh and its a bit messy.....
below links to the wm2d files
http://www.overunity.com/13480/big-try-at-gravity-wheel/msg376609/#msg376609
simple testing for the add-on XIV, pushing the weight (having a higher altitude) sideways with some more path reduction viewed from front
XXX-XXX-IV. trying my hands on wm2d, continuum from wm2d no.XXX-II, just addition of connecting both sides with springs
http://youtu.be/F2e6V6AOg7g (http://youtu.be/F2e6V6AOg7g)
also refer to "simple testing for the add-on XIV"
XXX-XXX-V. trying my hands on wm2d, testing a 360 degrees rotate using motor, change some rod to string as there are issue with rod penetrating each other
other related references
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg372449/#msg372449
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg373751/#msg373751
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg373943/#msg373943
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg374650/#msg374650
XXX-XXX-VI. trying my hands on wm2d, a triangle shape wheel as idea suggested by besslerwheel.com member killemaces
simple testing for the add-on XV, testing a 360 degrees rotate using motor
more relevant example here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg377026/#msg377026
XXX-XXX-VII. trying my hands on wm2d, yet another add-on technique testing on wheel
XXX-XXX-VIII. trying my hands on wm2d, a triangle shape wheel as idea suggested by besslerwheel.com member killemaces, implementing the add-on technqiue
continuum from wm2d no.XXX-XXX-VII
XXX-XXX-VI III. trying my hands on wm2d, connecting two orange circles from opposite side with spring
XXX-XXX-X. trying my hands on wm2d, loop all the orange circles together with spring
simple testing for the add-on XVI, testing a 360 degrees rotate using motor
http://www.mediafire.com/download/p5zdgbsrctzwb8n/ao_360b_demo.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/download/p5zdgbsrctzwb8n/ao_360b_demo.rar)
continuum from wm2d no.XXX-XXX-VII
XXX-XXX-XI. trying my hands on wm2d, increase the previous 8by8 arms to 16by16 by duplicate it
XXX-XXX-XII. trying my hands on wm2d, increase to 10by10 arms by increasing the radius of wheel
PS: as there arise problems and long simulation time (maybe due to poor setup of the model scene or simply the scene became complicated), i don't bother to waste time doing the simulation
http://youtu.be/ss-Cd7LQJJ0 (http://youtu.be/ss-Cd7LQJJ0)
in reference to wheel design wm2d no.XXX-XXX-XII
XXX-XXX-XIII. trying my hands on wm2d, relocate the standard center pivot to both sides of the circle
XXX-XXX-XIV. trying my hands on wm2d, saw this demonstration on an outer-space educational program
http://youtu.be/lE-5VnYLrAw (http://youtu.be/lE-5VnYLrAw)
based on the previous animation video, this time increase the 10by10 arms to 20by20
simple testing for the add-on XVII, testing a 360 degrees rotate using motor, include the sphere weight object
XXX-XXX-XV. trying my hands on wm2d, extending the arms of the rollers of wheel design
PS: simulation prompt error, guessing most likely due to rods crossing each other
http://youtu.be/x0KZg--xhAI (http://youtu.be/x0KZg--xhAI)
testing wheel model having 12by12 arms and 15by15 arms
relocate the standard center pivot to both sides of the circle,
reference to wm2d no.XXX-XXX-XIII
XXX-XXX-XVI. trying my hands on wm2d, rearrange the setup of springs around the wheel model
relocate the standard center pivot to both sides of the circle,
reference to wm2d no.XXX-XXX-XIII,
with addition of pendulums inside the wheel
XXX-XXX-XVII. trying my hands on wm2d, previous wheel model having 12by12 arms
http://youtu.be/OzwAyrxxvLk (http://youtu.be/OzwAyrxxvLk)
animation of wheel model having 12by12 arms using wm2d
XXX-XXX-XVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, previous wheel model with addition of magnet at the bottom
XXX-XXX-XVI III. trying my hands on wm2d, previous wheel model with addition of magnet at left side of wheel using the repel properties
XXX-XXX-XX. trying my hands on wm2d, testing of magnet with its repel behavior
http://youtu.be/MesMo1hprkA (http://youtu.be/MesMo1hprkA)
animation of wheel model having 18by18 arms
XXX-XXX-XXI. trying my hands on wm2d, wheel model having 16by16 arms
XXX-XXX-XXII. trying my hands on wm2d, comparison between wm2d motion behavior vs 3d motion,
..... movement in wm2d swing too much and duration too long before stopping
http://youtu.be/teBr_7ob5hs (http://youtu.be/teBr_7ob5hs)
a wheel design with implementation of pendulum (this model had only 2by2 arms, but already showing confusing and complicated design structure, it's difficult to setup)
http://youtu.be/9N9gJP494cQ (http://youtu.be/9N9gJP494cQ)
an odd-29 arms wheel (suggested by Attila Blade)
http://youtu.be/wzVKKOobAn4 (http://youtu.be/wzVKKOobAn4)
animation of wheel model having 20by20 arms
XXX-XXX-XXIII. trying my hands on wm2d, just playing around with the configuration of the magnet arrangement
XXX-XXX-XXIV. trying my hands on wm2d, rotating magnet inside the wheel
http://youtu.be/RPQ5-AmHXmc (http://youtu.be/RPQ5-AmHXmc)
animation of wheel model having 24by24 arms
XXX-XXX-XXV. trying my hands on wm2d, rotating magnet inside the wheel... again
XXX-XXX-XXVI. trying my hands on wm2d, rotating magnet inside the wheel... yet again
http://youtu.be/senp6KtzFWE (http://youtu.be/senp6KtzFWE)
animation of wheel model having 30by30 arms
XXX-XXX-XXVII. trying my hands on wm2d, rotating magnet using dual wheels
XXX-XXX-XXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, rotating magnet using quad wheels
Quote from: helloha on December 20, 2013, 07:56:33 PM
http://youtu.be/senp6KtzFWE (http://youtu.be/senp6KtzFWE)
animation of wheel model having 30by30 arms
Great sucess ! So it seems to run much better the more units you have in this wheel !
Does it also work in WM2D ? It is such a simple principle, but you first had to find it !
I hope that there will soon be some people, who will try to build this in a real world model ! Many thanks.
If you have problems with WM2D maybe better use the other
Algodoo
http://www.algodoo.com/
It is also now a free physics simulator and is newer and better than WM2D and is constantly
developed and also there is an IPAD version !
Looking forward to see someone build such a wheel and test it out in reality.
Happy Christmas !
hrmmm reminds me of that older guy overseas who built the gigantic wheel in his backyard errr can't remember his name for some odd reason.
Anyhow interesting concept I wonder if this design has anything in common with the paradox engine seeing has how there is many spinning mediums.
Gyroscopic effects have a lot to teach us yet I believe.
Quote from: hartiberlin on December 22, 2013, 10:12:08 PM
Great sucess ! So it seems to run much better the more units you have in this wheel !
Does it also work in WM2D ? It is such a simple principle, but you first had to find it !
I hope that there will soon be some people, who will try to build this in a real world model ! Many thanks.
If you have problems with WM2D maybe better use the other
Algodoo
http://www.algodoo.com/ (http://www.algodoo.com/)
It is also now a free physics simulator and is newer and better than WM2D and is constantly
developed and also there is an IPAD version !
Looking forward to see someone build such a wheel and test it out in reality.
Happy Christmas !
Stefan
Lim and I, have good communication relations and he has animated a few of my older wheels. I will build a test platform for 2 chambers and test reactions in real time, to get the weight ratios adjusted and see if the shifts are as shown on the simulation at there proper time needed. This IMHO will help clarify the possibilities.
Alan
http://youtu.be/jyox7hCH_9U (http://youtu.be/jyox7hCH_9U)
animation of wheel model having 36by36 arms
****************************************************
QuoteIf you have problems with WM2D maybe better use the other
Algodoo
http://www.algodoo.com/ (http://www.algodoo.com/)
It is also now a free physics simulator and is newer and better than WM2D and is constantly
developed and also there is an IPAD version !
hi stefan
thks for the recommendation of "algodoo (http://www.algodoo.com/)", i'll look into it
QuoteI will build a test platform for 2 chambers and test reactions in real time, to get the weight ratios adjusted and see if the shifts are as shown on the simulation at there proper time needed.
greeting alan
hahaha my initial plan is to wait til next year then ask either you or ralph again for test and build, but hey i got myself a Christmas Gift. Thks for the volunteer testing, hopefully miracle can happen (it's Christmas...LOL)
QuoteAnyhow interesting concept I wonder if this design has anything in common with the paradox engine seeing has how there is many spinning mediums.
infringer
don't think there's any common with the paradox engine as those "many spinning" is just a layout of many wheels (doesn't matter what type of driven wheels, can be wind-driven, water, etc)
XXX-XXX-XX VIIII. trying my hands on wm2d, rotating magnet and coil using dual wheels in pair
XXX-XXX-XXX. trying my hands on wm2d, rotating magnet using triple wheels
http://youtu.be/MnSUal-m-aE (http://youtu.be/MnSUal-m-aE)
animation of wheel model having 40by40 arms
XXX-XXX-XXX-I. trying my hands on wm2d, simple gear testing
XXX-XXX-XXX-II. trying my hands on wm2d, a simple overbalanced see-saw demonstration
XXX-XXX-XXX-III. trying my hands on wm2d, wheel models based on besslerwheel.com member preoccupied's "hypothetical 12" design
XXX-XXX-XXX-IV. trying my hands on wm2d, a "spring lever" mech model
simple testing for the add-on XVIII, replace the usual rod to springs for the swinging weight/roller
http://youtu.be/Yc8nQ1iC76M (http://youtu.be/Yc8nQ1iC76M)
animation of 18by18 arms wheel with addition of springs connecting the swinging weights/rollers together
simple testing for the add-on XVI III, replace sphere to cylinder and connect to the swinging weight
XXX-XXX-XXX-V. trying my hands on wm2d, connect the swinging weight/roller and the main weight together with the rod and test on slope of 5 and 10 degrees
XXX-XXX-XXX-VI. trying my hands on wm2d, testing in situation of rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise
XXX-XXX-XXX-VII. trying my hands on wm2d, wheel models based on besslerwheel.com member preoccupied's "hypothetical 11" design
XXX-XXX-XXX-VIII. trying my hands on wm2d, testing in situation of rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise... again
XXX-XXX-XXX-VI III. trying my hands on wm2d, testing in situation of rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise... yet again
XXX-XXX-XXX-X. trying my hands on wm2d, testing another situation of rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise
a-I. trying my hands on wm2d, testing another situation of rotating clockwise and counter-clockwise... again
a-II. trying my hands on wm2d, checking the movement of the weights within the wheel, the wheel is rotated by motor
a-III. trying my hands on wm2d,
checking the movement of the weights within the wheel,
minor change to the orange circle where two circles joint, one roll by the blue circle, one roll along the round ring of the wheel
the wheel is rotated by motor
a-IV. trying my hands on wm2d,
checking the movement of the weights within the wheel,
changes to the design of the round ring of the wheel (but result below expectation, the blue circle is having difficulty pushing/lifting the orange circle upward),
the wheel is rotated by motor
a-V. trying my hands on wm2d,
checking the movement of the weights within the wheel,
continuum from a-IV, increase the diameter of the wheel,
the wheel is rotated by motor
a-VI. trying my hands on wm2d,
checking the movement of the weights within the wheel,
change the round ring of the wheel to oval shape,
the wheel is rotated by motor
simple testing for the add-on XX, change the usual swinging weight to free moving weight rolling around an oval shape ring
helloha
very nice examples man, but did you try to make any of them,
and what is .wm2d exrention
a mind-mapping title "Usage and Relation between PM (if it exist) with other energy sources"
a-VII. trying my hands on wm2d,
checking the movement of the weights within the wheel,
continuum from a-VI, increase the diameter of the wheel,
the wheel is rotated by motor
turboqt16v
Quotedid you try to make any of them
no, but alan bauldree aka AB Hammer is helping out with 2 chambers/arms testing build
Quotewhat is .wm2d exrention
check here http://www.design-simulation.com/wm2d/ (http://www.design-simulation.com/wm2d/)
http://youtu.be/zErk37i0lww (http://youtu.be/zErk37i0lww)
animation of 18by18 arms wheel with rollers moving within an oval shape ring
hello helloha
could you help me with determine what type of wheel is this,what system does it use,
i think you are most qualified on this forum...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qyvX9j5i3U
the big wheel
thanks
a-VIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
checking the movement of the weights within the wheel,
introducing a small enhancement "the bump" to the wheel,
the wheel is rotated by motor
turboqt16v
Quotecould you help me with determine what type of wheel is this,what system does it use
i have absolutely no idea about the wheel, but i do like the mechanical design for the timing/sync for the ball to land from ramp to wheel and vice versa,
anyway there already have a thread discussing Chas Campbell's wheel here http://www.overunity.com/2487/chas-campbell-free-power-motor/#.Uth2EYH2GJp (http://www.overunity.com/2487/chas-campbell-free-power-motor/#.Uth2EYH2GJp)
also i found videos on theory on Chas Campbell's wheel, hope it can help u
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCaxKMUrno (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCaxKMUrno)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co4kFG4cJMk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co4kFG4cJMk)
a image look and comparison at the measurement of Bessler's Wheel,
using reference from http://www.orffyre.com/measurements.html (http://www.orffyre.com/measurements.html),
simply trace the shape over the image from the site
PS: height of human figure is 6 feet or 1.82 m
some eyewitness's account on the weight of the wheel
QuoteSeveral such weights, wrapped in his handkerchief, he let us weigh in our hands to estimate their weight. They were judged to be about four pounds each, and their shape was definitely cylindrical.
QuoteBefore translocating the wheel, the Inventor who was performing the test for the officially appointed Commissioners, took out the weights and permitted one of them to be touched, wrapped in a handkerchief. He did not allow the weight to be touched on the end, but lengthwise, it felt cylindrical and not very thick.
maybe can make an estimated/appropriate guess on the size and shape of the weight
Hello ;)
The same principle of mechanism
Patent - "invention" : 1834
perpetual_motion_machine-SPL.jpg (http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/362503/large/T9920003-Diagram_showing)
Regards
here is explanation picture of why it wont work,
http://imageshack.com/a/img11/4738/38j6.jpg
object that is 2 times farther from center is equal to 2 objects closer to center,simple fizik,
that is why don't believe Chas Campbell gravity wheel is possible to make overunity
using reference of weight size ranging from 2-1/2 inches diameter by 3-1/8 long to the shape of coke can for the Kassel,
a comparison of the weight between the Kassel and Gera Wheel.
Quote from: turbogt16v on January 19, 2014, 08:04:20 AM
here is explanation picture of why it wont work,
http://imageshack.com/a/img11/4738/38j6.jpg
object that is 2 times farther from center is equal to 2 objects closer to center,simple fizik,
that is why don't believe Chas Campbell gravity wheel is possible to make overunity
Chas Campbell gravity wheel have another rule, "pulsing" .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co4kFG4cJMk
watch
and for the wheel loook at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCaxKMUrno
he had different setup for free energy device with motor and generator but later he did it without motor,
so by looking the laws of common sense ,if one is fake the others are ?
Quote from: turbogt16v on January 20, 2014, 04:18:45 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co4kFG4cJMk
watch
and for the wheel loook at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azCaxKMUrno
he had different setup for free energy device with motor and generator but later he did it without motor,
so by looking the laws of common sense ,if one is fake the others are ?
common sense: if one is fake the others are fake too.
OU.com sense: if one is fake the others is not necessarily fake .
btw, we are here looking something that we don't familiar with it before.
just keep "open mind".
hi. @helloha
you are truly hard worker,
have you found your wheel do works? which one?
..
Comparison on the thickness of wheels between the Kassel and Draschwitz,
and using the ratio of the Gera and Draschwitz to predict a double-sized Draschwitz version
Marsing
Quotehave you found your wheel do works? which one?
answer is none.......
all of these is just computer simulation, they can't proof anything
a-VIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
one of three mechanisms presented by the Merseburg drawing http://www.orffyre.com/Merseburg1.jpg (http://www.orffyre.com/Merseburg1.jpg) , the Pendulum, ....
the other two are Lifting weight mechanism and Hammer mill mechanism.
Quote from: helloha on January 21, 2014, 07:13:59 PM
a-VIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
one of three mechanisms presented by the Merseburg drawing http://www.orffyre.com/Merseburg1.jpg (http://www.orffyre.com/Merseburg1.jpg) , the Pendulum, ....
the other two are Lifting weight mechanism and Hammer mill mechanism.
helloha,
In Bessler wheel, you asked about the hammer mill. They were used for grinding grain into flour. It could be why Bessler wanted to sell his invention. It would have allowed for a portable mill. A river or wind would not have been needed to continue milling wheat or grain.
One of Bessler's clues was that his weights got their force from swinging. A pendulum swings. It also has a lot of torque which is not used.
And as a wheel rotates, all levers move back to their original position, gravity requires this.
a-X. trying my hands on wm2d,
rotating magnet and coil using triple wheels in pair
http://youtu.be/cpVw0J2GOYc (http://youtu.be/cpVw0J2GOYc)
animation of 18by18 arms wheel with addition of pendulum.
the pendulum design is extracted from Johann Bessler's Merseburg drawing.
a-XI. trying my hands on wm2d,
reposition the main weight to the center,
and the swinging weights to the edge of the wheel
a-XII. trying my hands on wm2d,
reposition the main weight to the center,
and the swinging weights to the edge of the wheel
a-XIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
replace the usual free rolling circle to another swinging weight,
making it 2 swinging weights interacting with each other.
the wheel is rotated by motor
a-XIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
replace the usual free rolling circle to another swinging weight,
then add another one more swinging weight,
making it 3 swinging weights in a roll.
the wheel is rotated by motor
a-XV. trying my hands on wm2d,
doing test on triggering On and Off (force, torque etc) for every 5 seconds with each wheel.
the RotSpring tends to become chaos... no idea how it work.
a-XVI. trying my hands on wm2d,
trying to imitate a torsion spring effect
http://youtu.be/5gUXGNR8Rlw (http://youtu.be/5gUXGNR8Rlw)
an animation of a 10by10 arms wheel with each arm a pair of swing weights side by side
http://youtu.be/-z9vuLh0BaA (http://youtu.be/-z9vuLh0BaA)
an animation of a 10by10 arms wheel with each arm three swing weights in a row
a-XVII. trying my hands on wm2d, heavy wheel vs light wheel
a motor-driven spring lever
and
a pushing force applied spring lever
a-XVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, placing the rotating magnet on top of wheel
a-XVIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Bessler's MT23
Spring Lever .... again 8)
- blue circle and orange circle, each weigh 2 kg
- using the blue circle for the measurement of the centrifugal force and accel
- the spinning is regulated around 120-150 rpm (any higher may prompt error)
a-XX. trying my hands on wm2d, 2 swinging weights side by side with ramp
a-XXI. trying my hands on wm2d, Bessler's MT27
a-XXII. trying my hands on wm2d,
an improvised design version from the add-on series,
wheel is rotated by motor
a-XXIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Bessler's MT13
a-XXIV. trying my hands on wm2d, comparison of the wheels on the pulling points for lifting weights
a-XXV. trying my hands on wm2d, comparison of different arms/chambers/compartments affecting the mass of weights to do the lifting work
a-XXVI. trying my hands on wm2d,
position of weights near the perimeter of wheel vs the weights near the axle, which one require less pulling force to rotate more
a-XXVII. trying my hands on wm2d,
a further improvised design from the add-on series,
using a simple see-saw test
a-XXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
weights distributed uniformly around the perimeter of wheel vs weights slightly non-uniformly distributed (a gap between the weights at top of wheel)
a-XXVIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
a wider gap between the weights at top of wheel vs
a narrower gap, which one is more efficient at passing through
the zenith position (12 o'clock) of the wheel first
a-XXX. trying my hands on wm2d,
torque gain at 9 o'clock position vs 7 o'clock,
which can lift up the work
a-XXXI. trying my hands on wm2d,
a look at the center of mass on an unbalanced see-saw with heavy weights vs light weights
http://youtu.be/wM47JP-1NW4 (http://youtu.be/wM47JP-1NW4)
a 10by10 arms wheel animation with its compartment having the shape of semi-circle facing inward to the axle
http://youtu.be/FpXv5qKgvl4 (http://youtu.be/FpXv5qKgvl4)
a 20by20 arms wheel animation with its compartment having the shape of semi-circle facing inward to the axle
http://youtu.be/TbIzqQ3Z1O0 (http://youtu.be/TbIzqQ3Z1O0)
a 20by20 arms wheel animation with its compartment having the shape of semi-circle facing away from the axle
a-XXXII. trying my hands on wm2d,
a BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel model
a-XXXIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
a BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel model 2.0
a-XXXIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
a BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel model 3.0
make a mistake, it should be the blue circle rotating twice the rate to orange circle
a-XXXV. trying my hands on wm2d,
a BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel model 4.0
<buzzsaw04a.jpg>
testing on the spinning ratio of 2:1 for Blue circle over Orange circle
<buzzsaw04b.jpg>
testing with all weights on the wheel
a-XXXVI. trying my hands on wm2d,
a breakdown analysis at BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel model 5.0
a-XXXVII. trying my hands on wm2d,
the gearing system employed by the BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel
make a mistake, I've made an error on the displacement of weights on the Buzzsaw Gravity Wheel.
a-XXXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel driven by motor,
using this way to determine the position where the weights should be positioned
a-XXX VIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
examples of interaction between gear and weights
a-XXX X. trying my hands on wm2d,
examples of interaction between gear and weights continue...
a-XXX XI. trying my hands on wm2d,
examples of interaction between gear and weights continue again...
a-XXX XII. trying my hands on wm2d,
a model of BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel model 6.0,
with spinning rate of blue circle 2x of orange circle,
and increase of the diameter of overall wheel
a-XXX XIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
a model of BuzzSaw Gravity Wheel model 7.0,
with spinning rate of orange circle 2x of blue circle
weights transfer from inner to outer wheel (or vice verse) without getting stuck
:) I don't know if this was already posted Aldo Costa big wheel :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsBplmMDcRQ
testing on implementing the "add-on" to the buzzsaw
there's a issue with the gear setup in almost all the previous wm2d buzzsaw model, but a easy fix on the gear, doesn't affect much on the overall wm2d model
the 'phz' files contained within the 'zip' file will require Algodoo (it's free) to open
http://www.algodoo.com/download/ (http://www.algodoo.com/download/)
a-XXX XIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
a more efficient gear arrangement (by Mick from besslerwheel.com) for the buzzsaw gravity wheel
a-XXX XV. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing a section of 'add-on' on the buzzsaw wheel
a-XXX XVI. trying my hands on wm2d,
degree testing for the "add-on" technique
a 3D Artwork on "Gear"
Algodoo index I. trying out the fluid function
Algodoo index II. buoyancy testing
a-XXX XVII. trying my hands on wm2d, using circle to act as water/liquid
Algodoo index III. a simple hydro-power simulation
Algodoo index IV. a hydro-turbine simulation
a-XXX XVIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing a section of 'add-on' on the buzzsaw wheel,
relocate the swinging weight to the third wheel which spin even faster over the inner and outer wheel
wheel is spin by motor
Algodoo index V. a simple mechanical trigger sort-of design
a-XXX XVIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing a section of 'add-on' on the buzzsaw wheel,
relocate the swinging weight to the third wheel which spin even faster over the inner and outer wheel,
using spring to interconnect all the swinging weights together,
wheel is spin by motor
Algodoo index VI. a triple compound gear
Algodoo index VII. testing out the swinging weight floating on fluid
a-XXX XX. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing a section of the add-on wheel,
with string attached to the swinging weights
http://youtu.be/tBo__0S7uoA (http://youtu.be/tBo__0S7uoA)
a 20by20 arms wheel animation having the edges of the compartment curves slightly out
Algodoo index VIII. a hydro design simulation
Algodoo index VIV. a hydro with two outlet, one driving the magnet, the other driving the coil
Algodoo index X. a hydro in a more optimize manner to drive the magnet... also apply to the coil
reusing old models (laziness... .... .... >..<), replacing with fluid
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg364464/#msg364464
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg364618/#msg364618
http://youtu.be/boxUMRM9s10 (http://youtu.be/boxUMRM9s10)
computer simulation of fluid motion that demonstrate a centrifugal-like motion (although it got out of hand..... :o )
Algodoo index XI. an outlet control to determine narrower or wider flow of fluid
a-XXX XXI. trying my hands on wm2d,
a modified design derived from the add-on series
http://youtu.be/yQFRkeJHprQ (http://youtu.be/yQFRkeJHprQ)
computer simulation of fluid motion that demonstrate a centrifugal-like motion,
but the spinning rate is kind-of weak (should set it higher :P )
a-XXX XXII. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing on see-saw with a pulley system implemented
a-XXX XXIII. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing on the add-on with all weights attached stationary and without the reset portion
a-XXX XXIV. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing on the add-on with all weights attached stationary
Algodoo index XII. an outlet control to determine narrower or wider flow of fluid
http://youtu.be/n9qAAn2R1dE (http://youtu.be/n9qAAn2R1dE)
computer simulation of fluid motion that demonstrate a centrifugal-like motion in a bowl-shape object
Algodoo index XIII. a block/unblock control of an air outlet
a-XXX XXV. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing on 15by15 arms add-on with all weights attached stationary
@hellohamany thanks for posting these great simulations.
Unfortunately I don´t have WM2D anymore installed on my new
PCs. Would you rather make these simulations with the free Aldodoo Software, so
all users can freely download the simulation program and check your simulations ?
Did you ever get the wheels which you seem to have get selfrun via 3DSMax and Havoc engine
also to selfrun in WM2D with some friction enabled ?
Or are these still artifacts of the 3DSMax Havoc engine ?
Many thanks .
Regards, Stefan.
@hartiberlin
QuoteWould you rather make these simulations with the free Aldodoo Software, so
all users can freely download the simulation program and check your simulations ?
unlikely, the good side of wm2d is the ability to import/export cad formal files (basically i can setup and arrange the shapes of the model in other program, simple and fast). Algodoo and Physion do not have this advantage, it have to be done painstakingly.
QuoteDid you ever get the wheels which you seem to have get selfrun via 3DSMax and Havoc engine also to selfrun in WM2D with some friction enabled ?
hope, i haven't have any success with wm2d (and i wish simulation in wm2d can stop its swinging behavior, it just keep swinging on and on, back and forth.... it's irritating, i want it to stop moving... LOL, ...... can't do any analyzing with this bad behavior/bug .... :'( )
_______________________________________________________
a-XXX XXVI. trying my hands on wm2d,
testing on 18by18 arms add-on with all weights attached stationary
http://youtu.be/5rFYjM1E6U8 (http://youtu.be/5rFYjM1E6U8)
computer simulation of fluid motion that demonstrate a centrifugal-like motion in a bowl-shape object with prolong edge
Algodoo index XIV. a simple portion of the pendulum clock mechanism, although not so much of a success
Algodoo index XV. continue from previous post of the simple portion of the pendulum clock mechanism, found some mistake i made and fix it
CG Modeling of Wind Turbine
good reference from youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oSd6lZLazs&list=LLl87npOKeL8s9D1aJ3qJ7eA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oSd6lZLazs&list=LLl87npOKeL8s9D1aJ3qJ7eA)
Algodoo index XVI. a hybrid of wind and hydro-power
Algodoo index XVII. based from the previous pendulum clock mechanism, remove the pendulum part and replace it with magnet
Algodoo index XVIII. continuum from previous post, this time with addition of coil
below link to a product, i think, is utilizing a similar method to do work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENyFtepTbLQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENyFtepTbLQ)
Algodoo index XVIV. continuum from previous post, reshuffle the layout of the gear
a concept of utilizing human (beside the foot pedal) as energy source
another way to utilizing hydro and gravity
Algodoo index XX. a simple try at setting up a vibration concept
helloha,
Thank you for your research. I read your posts everyday. I also see the logic in your experimental designs. Thank you for your hard work. I am interested in what you have discovered that seems most promising. I have seen a few that I believe are close or appears to be so.
--Fan of helloha
TkMhMefan,
thks for the compliment. anyway some of the research design/ideas is stuff that i came upon on the internet,
example like the vibration posted above from this site http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/company/environment/ecotopics/vibration/spring/index.html (http://www.mitsubishielectric.com/company/environment/ecotopics/vibration/spring/index.html), i just use a bit of imagination to piece up the description, so these ideas are kind-of pretty close to what they appears to be so (but i don't claim credit for that :'( :P )
_______________________________________________
Algodoo index XXI. using fluid to hit on the vibration board
just an added info:
vibration generator can go hand-in-hand with the solar panel (can install the vibration board underneath the solar panel), so when in sunny weather, the solar generate energy, whereas in windy or rainy weather, the wind hit the solar panel causing vibration, which in turn also generate energy (raindrop hit the solar panel, also do the same)
Algodoo index XXII. recently just discovered algodoo can sim magnet behavior
Algodoo index XXIII. magnet influencing the see-saw
some related wm2d version here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg374242/#msg374242 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg374242/#msg374242)
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg374552/#msg374552 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg374552/#msg374552)
Algodoo index XXIV. magnet rotation .... .... sort-of.... ....
Algodoo index XXV. slight modification based from http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg398503/#msg398503 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg398503/#msg398503)
Physion no 1. first try on physion, sphere hitting on board causing vibration
you will need to install Physion (it's free) in order to open the file .scene, here the link http://physion.net/en/downloads (http://physion.net/en/downloads)
Physion no 2. using the rotating wheel (driven by motor) to continuously give a light push or "knocking on the door" to create movement/vibration on the board, this is one method to replace the tradition rotating magnet/coil generator using the "linear" style (up and down) aka vibration generator.
I saw you simulated with Algodoo. Maybe you can test my scene ? There is no gravity, no external friction, no axis. Just 2 objects in free rotation and translation in space. I gave the scene for tested it if you want. The sum of energy of the system give increase energy. It a combination of rotationnal velocity + translation + friction. If friction is at 0 the energy is constant or decrease. Spring is only there for add friction, energy increase without it but with lower slope.
http://youtu.be/Kg69KlHQmUw (http://youtu.be/Kg69KlHQmUw)
a short and simple computer animation of hourglass with turbine attached
I tested this case. When there is friction energy increase but when all the system is stable energy decrease (no friction).
some methods to optimize the water falling from the hourglass
refering to Algodoo index VIII http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg394412/#msg394412 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg394412/#msg394412)
refering to Algodoo index X http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg394684/#msg394684 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg394684/#msg394684)
When spring is moving along the big piece, the energy increase more.
extending the length of the hourglass
Trajectories of object1/object2 are differents like image showing. Force from friction is F on object1 and -F on object2. Why energy must be the same if trajectories are differents ?
Different frequencies give different results because object2 moves differently. All forces are stable if frequency is lower than 2400 Hz.
a-XXX XXVII. trying my hands on wm2d, a simple pendulum generator
@helloha: you knows WM2D, can you test my model on this software ?
Sum of energy change when trajectory change.
a-XXX XXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, model based on rc4's design
@rc4: i have problem opening the .phz file for the moment (due to my computer hardware/software issues),
so the wm2d model is based purely on the image you upload.
I added the scale. Red pieces are link together. For compute energy, you need to add a rotation. Is it possible to compute all energy with wm2d ?
@rc4
QuoteIs it possible to compute all energy with wm2d ?
no idea how, but don't mind me, you should continue on your research, use and modified those wm2d models to do your further test
__________________________________________________________
a-XXX XXVIV. trying my hands on wm2d, a simple pendulum generator again
I simulated with wm2d, but the center of gravity change. Is it possible to have sum of energy from all the system ?
I give the model.
a-XXX XXX. trying my hands on wm2d, a slight redesign on the pendulum generator
http://youtu.be/70dFFXJ9bIA (http://youtu.be/70dFFXJ9bIA)
a short and simple computer animation of hourglass with turbine attached near the edge of hourglass
a-XXX XXX I. trying my hands on wm2d, a characteristic of net force zero
a similar wm2d example
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg387548/#msg387548 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg387548/#msg387548)
a-XXX XXX II. trying my hands on wm2d, using (all) the lighter weights to lift up a heavy weight
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 01.
"The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter"
- the larger the diameter, the more power it has
- in other words, the smaller the diameter, the weaker it is
- take note: it did not mention the increase in power which result in the ability to turn the wheel, but should most probably be related either directly or indirectly
- so, if the diameter is very small, meaning very weak, can the wheel turn?
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 02.
"If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster."
- having the same concept with the "diameter" but this time implies directly on the rotation speed
- the more cross, the more power (or faster rotation)
- the less cross, the weaker it is (or weak rotation)
- take note: although it mention "fast and slow rotation speed", it doesn't directly meant a continuous rotation (at least there is no mention of "continuous" or sort-of words).
- so for a single cross (weak speed), the situation can be like ... when the wheel start to revolve from its initial position, it revolve very slow, up to a few degrees then it stop..... ...... it does revolve slowly (anyway it is just another guessing)
- but the main question is .... why is there a need to increase the diameter, when increase the cross can achieve the speed/power ?
or
why increase the cross when increasing the diameter can do the trick ?
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 03.
< Issue with the increase of Cross >
"Weights gained force from their own swinging"
- it is assumed that the those weights are required to do swinging or rolling (or maybe
flipping or something else), so the weight need its own area to do its movement
- but with each increase in cross, the movement for the weights decrease
- eventually the increase of the cross would cause no space for the weight to maneuver
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 04.
< Relation between the Cross and the Diameter >
- the increasing of the cross causes the weight to reduce its area of movement
- by increasing the diameter of the wheel, it also expand up the area of maneuver for the weights
- so the cross and diameter work hand-in-hand to increase the power of the wheel
http://youtu.be/t03yeg9ilMY (http://youtu.be/t03yeg9ilMY)
a computer animation of hourglass with double turbine attached near the edge of hourglass
Algodoo index XXVI. an outlet control to determine narrower or wider flow of fluid with turbine attached
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 05.
< Reduce the size of weight (also reduce the mass of weight) vs Increase the diameter of wheel >
- if increasing the number of cross will restrict the movement of the weight, there is an alternative (beside increasing the diameter
of wheel) to expand up the area of the weight, reduce the size of the weight (which in turn will also reduce the mass)
- also in other words, when increase the diameter of wheel, but retain the same number of cross, will result in increasing the mass
and size of weight
- any clue to indicate any changes in the mass of weight
"Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall."
- the example of a pound weight and/or 4 pounds might indicate that possiblity of weight changes in the mass, which also result
in size changes
take note: using mass of weight, instead of the weight of weight (sound funny)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 06.
< Possible existence of Two type of Weights >
- refer to the image, highlight the keywords to indicate the 2 weights
syadrehtonoputihctaplliw,secnetnesehtfogninaemehtfonoitaterpretniehtnoekatsimedami
A gravity wheel using the leverage of weight from gravity would not work. You would have to calculate the centrifugal force of the spinning wheel, which would tend to throw the weight out, cancelling the force of gravity trying to pull the weight in.
I was thinking about a similar wheel using solenoids to control the movement of the weights, controlled by a couple of Hall-Effect switches.
I haven't tried it yet.
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 07.
< the Light weight, the Heavy Weight and the Heavier Weight>
- refer to the image, highlight the keywords to indicate the existence of the light and heavy weight
still there ? I thought it was explained in other thread in this forum ?
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 08.
< the 1:4 Ratio >
- refer to the image, it indicates the mass ratio between the light weight and the heavy
weight
- suspecting the ratio of the weights might be one of the key factors that determine the
RPM of the wheel
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 09.
< Conflicting Situation regarding the RPM of Gera & Draschwitz >
"The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter"
"If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it
can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and
weights, the machine can revolve much faster."
- if the increased in cross (which also increases the diameter) affect the rotation speed of
the wheel, how come the RPM doesn't seem to have drastic changes between the Gera
Wheel and the Draschwitz Wheel (both running around 50 RPM) ?
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 10.
< Basic Movement of the Weights >
- refer to the image, it indicates the basic movement for the light and heavy weight
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 11.
< Basic Interaction between the Heavy weight and Light weight >
- refer to the image, some basic analysing on the interaction of the weights
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 12.
< Speculation on the Basic Wheel Structure of the Gera and Draschwitz Wheel >
- just making a big guess on the basic wheel structure of those two wheels
a-XXX XXX III. trying my hands on wm2d, utilizing the human and gravity
a-XXX XXX IV. trying my hands on wm2d, RPM of wheel affecting the circle rolling down the slope
a-XXX XXX V. trying my hands on wm2d, (continue) RPM of wheel affecting the circle rolling down the slope
a-XXX XXX VI. trying my hands on wm2d, a trick to make a low rpm wheel seems to appear as fast rpm wheel
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 13.
< Quarter, an alternate meaning >
"He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a heavy thing high, if one pound falls a quarter,
it shoots four pounds, four quarters high."
- quarter is commonly known for its numerical or mathematical roles
- but it is also used to represent a specific district or section, or a place of residence
Perhaps take a look at this (the video in post 643)
http://www.overunity.com/14565/the-bessler-wheel-mystery-solved/msg404406/#msg404406 (http://www.overunity.com/14565/the-bessler-wheel-mystery-solved/msg404406/#msg404406)
In the end, I doubt that it will be balls rolling on their own, as that seems way too sluggish in most of the simulations I have seen, but a combination of springs counter balancing weights, working against centrifugal force in a timed manner. Oscillation of the spring / weight assembly may also be a factor.
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 14.
< A Heavy Wheel ? >
"I then stopped the wheel with much difficulty, holding on to the circumference with both hands. An attempt to stop it suddenly would raise a man from the ground.
Having stopped it in this manner, it remained stationary... I commenced the movement very gently to see if it would of itself regain its former rapidity, which I doubted, believing that it only preserved for a long time the impetus of the impulse first
communicated. But to my astonishment I observed that the rapidity of the wheel augmented
little by little until it had made two turns, and then it regained its former speed, until I
observed by my watch that it made the same twenty-six turns a minute as before, when
acting freely." - eyewitness account
- refer to image, possible indication that the wheel is heavy by using a comparison to the
characteristic of flywheel
"If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in the machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it
can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and
weights, the machine can revolve much faster, and throw Wagner's calculations clean out
of the window!"
- more cross/crossbars, more weights
- so, when there is more weights, the heavier the wheel
accidental double posting...delete :o
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 15.
< Estimating the number of cross, weights, quarters.... >
using the following for reference
- using the Draschwitz Wheel 9.3 feet
- 4 pounds heavy rolling weight, roughly about the size of coke can
- reason to use rolling weight is that swinging weight can cross over to the quarter of
another swinging weight, so it's rather difficult to make an assumption, but rolling weights
unlikely to cross over each other path
- human of height 1.8 meter for comparison to the wheel and weight
using the following method
- estimating the number of quarters by evenly distributing the weights around the edges of
the wheel
- give different estimation how wide the quarter will be
- the more cross the better a.k.a the heavier the wheel will be
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 16.
< A "Child & Club" Interpretation of Bessler Wheel >
"The levers loaded with heavy weights as viewed from the side, may be compared to side
views of many children playing with very heavy clubs among tall broken columns. The
strongest of the children cannot lift the lightest of the clubs. Still, each child can swing (or
you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to
the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground
between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the
top of the next column.
Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column
and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to
the top of the next intended broken column. "
- refer to image for simple cartoon-style interpretation of the above description
take note: give an estimated time frame for the child swinging and club rolling would roughly
take around 2 to 5 seconds, which is in serious conflict with the wheel running above 50
rpm, or 26 rpm (around 1-2 sec for 1 revolution). There is no time for the weights (child and
club) to complete their expected movements.
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 17.
< A "Child & Column" Interpretation of Bessler Wheel >
"The levers loaded with heavy weights as viewed from the side, may be compared to side views of many children playing with very heavy clubs among tall broken columns. The strongest of the children cannot lift the lightest of the clubs. Still, each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column. Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended broken column."
- refer to image for simple cartoon-style interpretation of the above description, taking into account the wheel is rotating at the same time
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 18.
< Design Variation of Quarters for the rolling weight >
- just a few designs of the quarter/compartment for the rolling weight
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 19.
< A "Club & Column" Interpretation of Bessler Wheel >
"The levers loaded with heavy weights as viewed from the side, may be compared to side views of many children playing with very heavy clubs among tall broken columns. The strongest of the children cannot lift the lightest of the clubs. Still, each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column. Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended broken column."
- refer to image for simple cartoon-style interpretation of the above description, taking into account the wheel is rotating at the same time
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 20.
< The problem of 26/55 RPM, rolling weight version >
- simply put, the wheel is spinning too fast
- the rolling weight would most likely to be push outward (not much of any rolling down action), a centifugal-look effect
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 21.
< The problem of 26/55 RPM, swinging weight version >
- the swinging weight with short hand would most likely to be push outward, a centifugal-look effect
- the swinging weight with longer hand would like having a big swing per one revolution of wheel, and a more chao movement
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 22.
< Karl's "Peg and Weight" vs Bessler's "Child and Club" > - based on fictitious clue
"Count Karl explained that small pegs, which swung back out of the way as the weight passed the zenith, blocked these weights."
- associating Karl's account of peg and weight with Bessler's description of child and club, a.k.a the swinging weight and rolling weight
take note: when classified "fictitious clue", the analysis can be disregard, just treat it as extra knowledge
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 23.
< Interpretation of "Peg and Weight" > - based on fictitious clue
"Count Karl explained that small pegs, which swung back out of the way as the weight passed the zenith, blocked these weights."
- refer to image for simple interpretation of the above description
take note: when classified "fictitious clue", the analysis can be disregard, just treat it as extra knowledge
a-XXX XXX VII. trying my hands on wm2d, using (all) the lighter weights to lift up the heavy weights plus a load
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 24.
< The Basic Shape of the Weights >
"Several such weights, wrapped in his handkerchief, he let us weigh in our hands to estimate their weight. They were judged to be about four pounds each, and their shape was definitely cylindrical." - eyewitness clue
"Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall." - bessler clue
"Count Karl explained that small pegs, which swung back out of the way as the weight passed the zenith, blocked these weights." - fictitious clue
"About the size & shape of a coke can." - forum clue
"the lead weights were more like slightly smaller than half of a 12 oz. Coke can." - forum clue
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=119566#119566 (http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=119566#119566)
- based on clue extract from the forum, simply round off the shape of the weight to the size of coke can, for easy referencing
- refer to image, predicating the basic shape of the weights
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 25.
< The Rise of the 4 pounds 4 quarters >
"He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a
heavy thing high, if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds,
four quarters high."
- focus on the idea that the rising of the 4 pounds is on the ascending
side of wheel, giving 2 situations
- situation 1. refer to image "wheel_theory_25a.jpg", 4 quarters is the
distance between where the rolling weight is supposed to roll down in low
rpm to where it roll down after affected by the higher rpm of wheel
rotation
- so a slight indirect indication that the Bessler wheel might have a
lower rpm speed than expected
- the 26/55 rpm of the external rim of the wheel, recorded by the
eyewitness, may be "more than meet the eyes"
- situation 2. refer to image "wheel_theory_25b.jpg", 4 quarters is the
distance difference between the descending rolling weight, that have
rolled down, to the ascending rolling weight
test-just wanted a link back to this thread.
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 26.
< The Constant RPM >
"He will be called a great craftsman, who can easily/lightly throw a
heavy thing high, if one pound falls a quarter, it shoots four pounds,
four quarters high."
- theoretically speaking, if the wheel is able to achieve overbalanced
(by unbalanced, cf, ... etc), then the rpm of the wheel should increment
continuously, rotating faster and faster infinitely
- so how come, from the eyewitness, the bessler wheel is running at a
constant rate of 26/55 rpm ?
- one characteristic of the rolling weight is that when the wheel rotated
at a higher rpm, the rolling weight will gain a higher altitude before
rolling down.
- This gain in altitude will cause an increase in total
torque force on the ascending side of wheel (vice versa for the
descending side), which in turn, either prevent the wheel from rotating
faster or slow down the rotation... kind of acting as a speed regulator
a-XXX XXX VIII. trying my hands on wm2d, 2 tricks technique for the wheel to achieve bi-directional
trick 1.
- 2 wheels, one going CW, another going CCW
- a locking mechanism, lock one wheel to prevent it from rotating, unlock another, ... and vice versa
trick 2.
- only one wheel rotating in one direction, and have control over another wheel
- a gearing mechanism, rotating wheel connect to gear and the other wheel will turn one direction, and if rotating wheel connect directly to the other wheel, it will turn the other direction
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 27.
< number of quarters extracted using 700lbs (317kg) wheel >
- the estimated 700lbs wheel weight is based on the Merseberg wheel, which is a bi-directional wheel, basically it should be more complex than the uni-directional wheel
- so to simplify the task, using the Draschwitz wheel as the guide, and rounding off all value for easy calculation
- let's make assumption of
1. Draschwitz wheel weighs around 150kg (half of Merseberg wheel)
2. heavy rolling weight 2kg (round off 4lbs = 1.8kg)
3. light swinging weight 0.5kg (round off 1lbs = 0.45kg)
4. solely the wheel alone, let's give it 50kg
5. so, the total of rolling and swinging weights is 100kg
- find the number of quarters
1. x is the number of quarters, 2 is rolling weight, 0.5 is swinging weight
2. 2x + 0.5x = 100 =>
3. 2.5x = 100 =>
4. x = 40
- so the imaginative number of quarters for the Draschwitz wheel is 40
"If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster."
- if the Draschwitz wheel is heavier than 150kg, it would then mean there will be more quarters, also mean more weights, which mean more cross, finally result in more power
- or make another assumption, this time take the lifting load weight into account
1. 300kg (round off of 317kg) Merseberg wheel lifting 30kg load
2. unknown kg Draschwitz wheel lifting 18kg load
3. so, let's just consider 180kg for Draschwitz wheel
4. solely the wheel alone, let's give it 60kg
5. heavy rolling weight 2kg (round off 4lbs = 1.8kg)
6. light swinging weight 0.5kg (round off 1lbs = 0.45kg)
7. this time, the total of rolling and swinging weights is 120kg
- find the number of quarters
1. 2x + 0.5x = 120 =>
2. 2.5x = 120 =>
3. x = 48
- so the imaginative number of quarters for the Draschwitz wheel is now 48
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 28.
< Load Lifting, a fundamental look >
"At the moment it can lift a weight of sixty pounds, but to achieve this the pulley had to be reduced more than four times, making the lifting quite slow." - eyewitness clue
- image "wheel_theory_36a.jpg" and "wheel_theory_36b.jpg" for testing purpose
- image "wheel_theory_36c.jpg" uses the pulley factor
- no idea what type of pulley design Bessler uses, or
- what "reduced more than four times" meant on the pulley ?
- but no doubt and expectedly, the output efficiency of Bessler Wheel is weak .... , most probably without the pulley, the wheel can only lift up 15kg and lesser
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 29.
< The 8 Sounds >
"At every turn of the wheel can be heard the sound of about eight weights, which fall gently on the side towards which the wheel turns. This wheel turns with astonishing rapidity, making twenty-six turns in a minute, when the axle works unrestricted. " - eyewitness clue
- the wheel is turning at an astonishing speed of 26rpm (which is fast), but yet the weight can be heard falling "gently" on the side ... ?
"Is it really a wheel? For it does not have a normal rim. Rim that you see is just to hide the mechanism. If I uncover it you would then ask whether this is really a wheel. My wheel revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind or springs." - bessler clue
"this wheel consists of an external wheel (or drum) for raising weights which is covered with stretched linen." - bessler clue
- the rim and the external wheel (or drum) should be the same thing
- if assuming this drum is nailed or screwed together with the internal wheel, so basically if the internal wheel is running at 10rpm, then the drum is also at 10rpm, because both the internal wheel and the drum are connected together, but if that's the case, they should be considered as one whole piece...., or simply a wheel
- so the question is why consider the drum as an external piece of the wheel ?
- but for sure, the role of the drum is to hide the secret mechanism, and also to lift up the load, but is there any other roles for the drum ?
- one speculating scenario is that the drum and the internal wheel is running at different rpm. The internal wheel is at lower rpm, whereas the drum at faster rpm, achieved by mean of gearing mechanism (or maybe flywheel technique or some other methods)
- in this way, a revolution of the drum may only be 20-30% of turn for the internal wheel.... refer to the image on the 8 sounds
- another speculation for the extra role of the drum, it may also act like a switch, for the bidirectional wheel, determine which direction to turn.... a rather freaking big 12 foot switch ... just a thought :-)
a-XXX XXX VIV. trying my hands on wm2d, utilizing the human and gravity v2, change wheel to smaller diameter, longer path, uneven slope
the previous version here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg404289/#msg404289 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg404289/#msg404289)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 30.
< 3 Rules of Positioning the Swinging Weight.
Rule no 1. Swing and Stay, don't swing back >
"each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column."
- child, aka swinging weight, swing from 'top' of column to next 'top' of column
- infomation that can be extracted from the above
1. the weight stay at the top, or a particular position
2. the weight did not swing back
- refer to image for graphical presentation
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 31.
< 3 Rules of Positioning the Swinging Weight.
Rule no 2. Farther from axle, nearer to axle >
"a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, at its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time"
- refer to image for graphical presentation
Its my belief that you can do this, and implement a precession
It's also my belief that you are wrong when you say long arms can't be used
You have to move the weights , both scenario have advantage, if you engineer right.
The weak point of this designs, you need 1 way bearing, big ones, on well suite machine
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 32.
< 3 Rules of Positioning the Swinging Weight.
Rule no 3. Right angles to axis >
"one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move"
- 'one or other' indicates not all of the weights are required to be at right angles to axis at the same time
- refer to image for graphical presentation
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 33.
< Shape of "Swinging Weight and Rolling Weight" vs "Child and Club" >
- this is more of a refresher topic, just linking up the weights to the "child and club"
- refer to the related topic
1. The Basic Shape of the Weights
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406374/#msg406374 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406374/#msg406374)
2. A "Child & Club" Interpretation of Bessler Wheel
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405229/#msg405229 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405229/#msg405229)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 34.
< Differentiating the Balanced and Unbalanced Section >
- a breakdown on a simple unbalanced wheel, to identify the relationship on the weights between the left and right side of wheel
- this is just extra knowledge, not directly related to the Bessler Clue
- sort-of related topic associated with the "unbalanced see-saw" from the image "wheel_theory_44b.jpg"
1. using (all) the lighter weights to lift up a heavy weight
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg402158/#msg402158 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg402158/#msg402158)
2. using (all) the lighter weights to lift up the heavy weights plus a load
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406189/#msg406189 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406189/#msg406189)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 35.
< Act of Gravity, Motion of Object >
- indicate how gravity affect the motion of the rolling weight
- refer to image for simple visual presentation
- related topic associated with the motion of the rolling weight
1. A "Club & Column" Interpretation of Bessler Wheel
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405538/#msg405538 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405538/#msg405538)
2. Interpretation of "Peg and Weight"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406063/#msg406063 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406063/#msg406063)
a-XXX XXX X. trying my hands on wm2d, utilizing the human and gravity v3, change the car to bus, can support/house multiple people
the previous version here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407343/#msg407343 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407343/#msg407343)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 36.
< The "Leg" of the Child >
"each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column. Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended broken column.
If the clubs are even heavier by being double-ended, then instead of rolling them to the next position, they may be alternatively transported between the columns by switching ends."
- definition of 'step'
-- a movement made by lifting the foot (leg) and setting it down again in a new position, accompanied by a shifting of the weight of the body (child) in the direction of the new position, as in walking, running, or dancing (rolling for the club, swinging for the child)
- so basically, when the club move, the child move along with it, a.k.a the rolling weight is affecting the motion of the swinging weight
- and the rolling weight is affected by gravity, see the topic "Act of Gravity, Motion of Object"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407940/#msg407940 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407940/#msg407940)
- also since the child is using the club as 'leg', then it can be said the child is on top of the club
- a relevant and similar topic "Basic Interaction between the Heavy weight and Light weight"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg404107/#msg404107 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg404107/#msg404107)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 37.
< Count Karl's Explanation......... it's the other way round >
- this topic is mainly based on fictitious clue, so just entertain along
"Count Karl explained that small pegs, which swung back out of the way as the weight passed the zenith, blocked these weights." - fictitious clue
"Only a few persons had the privilege of seeing what was inside the wheel and they were sworn to secrecy. Even they did not see what might have been hidden inside the long six-inch diamter axle, supported at each end by iron pins only about an inch in diameter. Remember that Bessler had a reputation as a very skilled clockmaker, and such a heavy wheel can sustain flywheel motion for a very long time. Clocks could be made to run a year without winding.
These few who saw the inside of the wheel after removing the front panel said that it had many compartments around the perimeter of the wheel, each with a shifting weight inside."
extract from https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/people/people.htm#bessler (https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/people/people.htm#bessler)
"each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column." - bessler clue
- Count Karl thought that the peg (child/swinging weight) was blocking the movement of the weight (club/rolling weight), ... on the contrary, the peg was using the weight (the child using the club as its "leg") to move, or swing, to its desired location (the child swing from top column to next top column). Karl got the role of the peg and weight mixed-up.
- information that can be extracted from above
1. Count Karl didn't know how Bessler Wheel works, he was just describing what he saw based on how much he remembered (one can remember now, but forgot the next minute)
2. the "zenith" indicates the interaction of the peg and weight occur at the top of wheel, or at the perimeter of the wheel
3. the interaction of the peg and weight might possibly be described by others as the action of "shifting weight"
- related topic "Interpretation of "Peg and Weight"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406063/#msg406063 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg406063/#msg406063)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 38.
< Shape of Rolling Weight, cylindrical vs Sphere >
- comparing the shape of the rolling weight between cylindrical vs sphere
- pros of Cylinder
1. mass increased, the length increased, but diameter can still remain the same
- cons of Cylinder
1. a wider surface contact affecting the rolling motion
2. unstable rolling, may slide sideway
- pros of Sphere
1. smooth rolling capability due to little surface contact
- cons of Sphere
1. mass increased, the diameter of sphere also increased
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 39.
< A Look at the Pulley >
"Furthermore, the machine may be of little value to the public unless it can be improved. At the moment it can lift a weight of sixty pounds, but to achieve this the pulley had to be reduced more than four times, making the lifting quite slow." - eyewitness clue
situation 1
- 'lifting quite slow' might indicate that the wheel need to pull more rope length, which in turn, slow down the lifting of the load,
- which also indicate there might have more pulleys involved
- 'pulley reduced more than four times' .... was it a reverse meaning, instead of reduced, it is the addition of more pulleys ? .... or it was not refering to the pulley at all ?
situation 2
- for light load, the wheel can easily lift the load up, while the rpm of wheel only reduce a little, so lifting is still fast
- but for heavy load, it will cause rpm of wheel to reduce more (with minimum use of pulleys), thus lifting will become slow
- so this can also explain the 'lifting quite slow', but if this is the case, then the 26rpm would have reduced to, not 20, but lesser... maybe 5-10rpm (guessing... 20rpm could/might still be considered quite fast when lifting the load up ?)
- but why 'pulley reduced more than four times' ? Is there alot of pulleys used in the first place ?
Take note:
"the machine may be of little value to the public unless it can be improved"
..... .... ....
the wheel is weak (but don't see it as a bad thing, .... on the contrary, it simply means there are alot of rooms to explore, ... and more topics to write ^o^ hooray!)
a-XXX XXX XI. trying my hands on wm2d, design variations of Swing/Roll interaction v1
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 40.
< The Cursed of the Number 8 >
"Design of my machine is analogues to world system. I have put eight heavy weights in my machine, which represents eight planets of our world. The large axle of my machine represents the sun. Heavy weights in my machine encircle around the axle to form an elliptical path, in the similar manner, as planets encircle around the sun. Whilst moving around axle, they recede and come closer to the center. They balance against each other and impart motion to the wheel. ?"
- the emphasize on the eight heavy weights ..... ..... .....
- ABSOLUTELY ... NO ... IDEA
- ...denial...denial...denial...didn't see...didn't hear...denial...what eight weights...didn't see before...eight weights...never heard of it...denial...complete denial...what eight...don't know... .... LOL :-) ^o^
- OK now back to the topic... no idea about the eight heavy weights, it basically defied most (or all) of the analysing of the other clues
- although more interested in the "elliptical path", which will post a topic on it
- IMO the binding of eight weights, eight planets is more of a way (a description) that Bessler used, to impress the eyewitness, kind of like a saleman trying to promote his product (focus on the good, amplify the good, divert the bad, hide the bad)
- the bidirectional wheel is also another way to impress the eyewitness, no much of any practical uses, and all these impressive display/description that Bessler had employed, seemed to have the purpose of either
1. diverting the attention of the eyewitness away from the weakness of the wheel... output of the wheel is weak... (one eyewitness had stated that), or
2. average out the weakness of the wheel, by compensating with impressive other display/description stuffs, or
3. simply the ego to impress, or
4. it does, and 'only', have 8 heavy weights ( mmm .... .... .... denial.... denial...denial...didn't see... ...denial...what eight weights...didn't see before...eight weights...never heard of it...denial...complete denial...what eight...don't know... ... ... LOL)
************ no image this time *************
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 41.
< Karl's Peg blocking vs Bessler's Child stepping >
- this topic is a continuum from related topic
1. "Count Karl's Explanation......... it's the other way round"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408218/#msg408218 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408218/#msg408218)
2. "The "Leg" of the Child"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408127/#msg408127 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408127/#msg408127)
"Count Karl explained that small pegs, which swung back out of the way as the weight passed the zenith, blocked these weights." - fictitious clue
"each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column." - Bessler clue
- refer to image for speculation on the perspective view of Karl and Bessler
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 42.
< Trail of the Elliptical Path >
"Design of my machine is analogues to world system. I have put eight heavy weights in my machine, which represents eight planets of our world. The large axle of my machine represents the sun. Heavy weights in my machine encircle around the axle to form an elliptical path, in the similar manner, as planets encircle around the sun. Whilst moving around axle, they recede and come closer to the center. They balance against each other and impart motion to the wheel. ?"
"one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move"
- due to a portion of the swinging weights station at right angles to the axis (also have to consider the rolling weights), the wheel would (most probably) have an illusion look of an oval-shape, or an ellipse
- refer to image to see the tracing line along the swinging weights
Take note:
the tracing of the path, if based on the combination of the swinging and rolling weights, might have a better ellipse/oval shape look
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 43.
< The Bearing >
"The diameter of the wheel is about twelve feet, and as well, the bearing was quite thin, about one quarter of an inch and only a sixth of its length was subject to friction." - eyewitness clue
"I examined the bearings of this wheel to see if there was any hidden artifice; but was unable to see anything more than the two small bearings on which the wheel is suspended at its centre" - eyewitness clue
"Through the centre of this wheel or drum runs an axle of about six inches diameter, terminated at both ends by iron bearings of about three-quarters of an inch diameter upon which the whole thing turns." - eyewitness clue
"Any attempt at fraud from outside was impossible because the wheel bearings were uncovered on both sides and one could see the axle journals turning in their bearings." - eyewitness clue
- the bearing of the wheel is pretty much exposed in plain sight to the eyewitness, so unlikely there are any fancy/unqiue mechanical design on the bearing, it is just a normal, yet durable and strong (can support up to 700 pounds of weight), bearing
- with 1/6 of its length subjected to friction, it has length
- and also having diameter, ... the shape of the bearing should be cylindrical and it's a plain thin strong cylinder iron bearing
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 44.
< The Right Angle and the Small Angle Swing >
"one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move"
"each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column. Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended broken column."
- the swinging weight, when swings from one destination to another, takes about 90 degrees (this is about as small a swing as it can be)
- refer to the image on the small angle swing
a-XXX XXX XII. trying my hands on wm2d, design variations of Swing/Roll interaction v2
a-XXX XXX XIII. trying my hands on wm2d, design variations of Swing/Roll interaction v3
a-XXX XXX XIV. trying my hands on wm2d, the weighs configuration on the see-saw.... it's still balanced
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 45.
< Candidate for the Double-ended Club >
"each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column. Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended broken column."
"If the clubs are even heavier by being double-ended, then instead of rolling them to the next position, they may be alternatively transported between the columns by switching ends. A double club may be moved in seesaw fashion by leaning it against the current broken column that the child is on and rolling it over the top of the column (assuming that there is enough room for the child to stay on top of the column). The double club is pivoted with a circular motion with one end going up while the other end goes down."
- refer to the image and video for speculation of the basic concept structure of the double-ended club
- 'rolling it over the top of the column', does the 'it' refer to the club or child ?
1. if child, then this clue can link up with the child using the club as its 'leg' description (basically mean the club will roll the child to the next top column)
2. if club, no idea, how to get the club to roll over to the top of column ?
- 'enough room for child to stay on top' what does it mean, and how ?
- does this double-ended club have any connection, or involvement, to the mechanism of bi-directional wheel ?
a.1 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- just a slight modification
a.2 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- refer to image and video to spot the modification
a-XXX XXX XV. trying my hands on wm2d, utilizing the human and gravity v4, adding a wind turbine
previous version here
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408041/#msg408041 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408041/#msg408041)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 46.
< Improvised Method, Increase of Mass >
"Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall"
- if there can have 1 pound (16 ounces) to 4 ounces, and 4 pounds (64 ounces) to 16 ounces
- then it can also up the value of the mass of the weighs (rolling : swinging) like
1. 1kg : 250g
2. 4kg : 1kg
3. 8kg : 2kg
4. 16kg : 4kg and on and on
- hopefully with each increase of the mass, the output efficiency of the wheel can also increase (but the increase might only be a slight figure)
- but also with each mass increase, the size (diameter/length) of wheel will also have to made changes
- relevant link related to mass changes "Shape of Rolling Weight, cylindrical vs Sphere"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408314/#msg408314 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408314/#msg408314)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 47.
< Improvised Method, More Quarters, Increase of Diameter >
"The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter"
"If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster."
- refer back to the Analysing of Bessler's Clues from topic 01 to 04
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg402305/#msg402305 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg402305/#msg402305)
- and Analysing of Bessler's Clues 13, Quarter, an alternate meaning
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg404718/#msg404718 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg404718/#msg404718)
- also Analysing of Bessler's Clues 15, Estimating the number of cross, weights, quarters....
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405003/#msg405003 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405003/#msg405003)
- plus Analysing of Bessler's Clues 27, number of quarters extracted using 700lbs (317kg) wheel
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407017/#msg407017 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407017/#msg407017)
- the above clues and analysing are inter-connected with each other (take note that the analysing are based on estimation technique, not precision)
- based on the clues, the increase of wheel's diameter will increase the machine power, together with the increase of crossbar (or cross, whichever... doesn't make much difference), end up with the result of the increase of quarters (or compartments)
- more quarters, diameter increase, so is the output efficiency of the wheel
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 48.
< Improvised Method, Built More >
"Furthermore, the machine may be of little value to the public unless it can be improved. At the moment it can lift a weight of sixty pounds, but to achieve this the pulley had to be reduced more than four times, making the lifting quite slow." - eyewitness clue
- if one wheel is weak, then built more..., learn from wind turbine
- the large scale wind industry would usually build from around hundreds to thousands of the wind turbine,
- in the case of the bessler wheel, maybe have to go for double or triple the number of builds
- pros of the wheel over the wind turbine
1. wind turbines require a wide area and spacing for the construction, whereas all the wheels can be housed inside buildings within a limited area
2. wind turbines are limited by the requirement of wind speed and wind consistency, whereas the wheels are free from these type of constraints
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 49.
< Improvised Method, Stacking and Layering >
- instead of building larger and having one large wheel to drive a generator, can try having smaller size but using 2 wheels to drive 1 generator, or
- using 3 to 4 wheels (can go up to maybe 6 to 10), to drive 1 generator
- also can implement the method of rotating the magnet and coil separately, one wheel for magnet, one for coil
- a list of relevent information on the implementation of "Stack & Layer" technqiues
1. layout/setup for the wheels
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg364464/#msg364464 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg364464/#msg364464)
2. layout/setup for the wheels
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg364618/#msg364618 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg364618/#msg364618)
3. rotating magnet using dual wheels
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg380270/#msg380270 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg380270/#msg380270)
4. rotating magnet and coil using dual wheels in pair
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg380517/#msg380517 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg380517/#msg380517)
5. rotating magnet and coil using triple wheels in pair
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg384443/#msg384443 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg384443/#msg384443)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 50.
< Improvised Method, mobile energy - Hydrogen Fuel & Battery >
"The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter"
"These few who saw the inside of the wheel after removing the front panel said that it had many compartments around the perimeter of the wheel, each with a shifting weight inside."
- larger diameter, greater output.... so basically the wheel (large in size) might not be suitable for transportation purposes, eg cars, planes, small-scale ships and boats etc...
- also, if the wheel operates by weight shifting, consider the movement of a mobile vehicle when rocking, rolling, shaking etc, might disrupt the shifting of the weight, thus causing the wheel to stop.... it might be best for the wheel to be on stationary grounding
- so a possible solution is that it can go through an extra process, or steps, .... like producing the hydrogen fuel to take over the task for the mobile
- basically, the output from the wheel is used for electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen, which in turn go through the process of manufacturing the hydrogen fuel
- or, can use to charge up battery for the mobile vehicles
- info using mind-mapping "Usage and Relation between PM (if it exist) with other energy sources"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg383124/#msg383124 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg383124/#msg383124)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 51.
< Improvised Method, Extraction of Water >
- if there is one resources on earth that is more important than energy, that would be water
- so, can use the output of the wheel, combined using the technology of atmospheric water generator (AWG) to extract water from air
- or, boil (or other methods, like desalination etc) seawater to extract drinkable water
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 52.
< Improvised Method, Vacuum Room, null Air Resistance >
"These few who saw the inside of the wheel after removing the front panel said that it had many compartments around the perimeter of the wheel, each with a shifting weight inside."
- if there are weights shifting within the wheel, and including the rotating motion of the wheel, it would be reasonable to vacuum out the air to reduce any air resistance, and so improve the workability of the wheel
- way of implementing the vacuum condition for the wheel
1. housing a number of wheels within a room/building, and vacuum out the whole room/building
2. place individual wheel within a container, and vacuum out the air inside the container
- extra info... moon has zero air resistance
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 53.
< Improvised Method, Gravity of Moon and Mar >
- gravity of
1. earth = 9.81 m/s2
2. moon = 1.622 m/s2
3. mar = 3.711 m/s2
- a speculation that if Bessler Wheel works based on gravity (used on the rolling weight) and
leverage (difference of torque force based on sum of rolling and swinging weights) and other
factors related (more or less) to gravity, then there's a possibility that the wheel can also apply on moon and mar
- relevent info refer to
1. "Act of Gravity, Motion of Weight"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407940/#msg407940 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg407940/#msg407940)
2. "The Right Angle and the Small Angle Swing"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408961/#msg408961 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408961/#msg408961)
3. "Karl's Peg blocking vs Bessler's Child stepping"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408643/#msg408643 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg408643/#msg408643)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 54.
< Improvised Method, Production of Hydrocarbon, Reduction of Carbon Dioxide >
- refer to image for simple concept to blend the wheel to the production of hydrocarbon
- there are technology in-the-process of research for the conversion of carbon dioxide to liquid fuel and other applications, search google or youtube for 'carbon dioxide conversion' etc
a.3 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- refer to image and video to spot the modification
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 55.
< Improvised Method, Hybrid of Hydro/Wind and the Wheel >
- refer to image for the hybrid concept
- the hybrid concept can also apply between different energy sources
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg398381/#msg398381 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg398381/#msg398381)
a.4 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- refer to image and video to spot the modification
a.5 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- refer to image and video to spot the modification
- continuum from the above post "a.4 Candidate for the Double-ended Club"
- the see-saw weight on the video should be stationary at its resting position after moving at the 11 o'clock of the wheel, so imagine it doesn't turn/move at these videos
- focus on the swinging weight, assume at around 9 o'clock of the wheel, the swinging weight fall down and land at position more further from the axle
a-XXX XXX XVI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance
a-XXX XXX XVII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v2
a-XXX XXX XVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v3
a-XXX XXX XVIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v4
a-XXX XXX XX. trying my hands on wm2d, an extension from "Improvised Method, Extraction of Water", adding a turbine between the boiler and drinkable water
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg410992/#msg410992 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg410992/#msg410992)
a.6 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- add one more swinging weight
- refer to image and video to spot the modification
a.7 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- refer to image and video to spot the modification
- continuum from above post
- the see-saw weight on the video should be stationary, so imagine it doesn't turn/move at these videos
a-XXX XXX XXI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v5
a-XXX XXX XXII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v6
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 56.
< Improvised Method, Placement of the Wheel and, a bit of, the Microgrid System (rural area) >
- refer to image for basic placement of the wheel (or number of wheels within a container) in rural residential estate, with simple implementation of the microgrid system
a-XXX XXX XXIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v7
- refer to "a.7 Candidate for the Double-ended Club" for a similar example, emphasize on the swinging weight
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg413255/#msg413255 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg413255/#msg413255)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 57.
< Improvised Method, Placement of the Wheel and, a bit of, the Microgrid System (city area) >
- refer to image for basic placement of the wheels in city residential building, with simple implementation of the microgrid system
Hi, forum, any comment on the below design?
Diagram illustrates equilibrium forces to give vertical movement with minimum effort needed to tilt the platforms.
Platform cylinders have equal displacements; hoses connected to give equal force on each side, no matter where weights are positioned. Adding an amount of lube to one side of the cylinder circuit, tilts the platforms, weights move accordingly. Weights roll from left to right as required to gain vertical movement.
Control system could be a control valve positioned at upper/lower limit of the parallel frame travel limits
Lower cylinder (acting as a pump) is to extract over balance forces, certain amount is used to tilt weight platforms.
Q. feasible OU device?
Quote from: worker on August 11, 2014, 03:02:03 AM
Platform cylinders have equal displacements; hoses connected to give equal force on each side, no matter where weights are positioned. Adding an amount of lube to one side of the cylinder circuit, tilts the platforms, weights move accordingly. Weights roll from left to right as required to gain vertical movement.
Control system could be a control valve positioned at upper/lower limit of the parallel frame travel limits
Lower cylinder (acting as a pump) is to extract over balance forces, certain amount is used to tilt weight platforms.
no idea about the platform cylinder, platform tilt etc... , so replaced those with just springs to, at least, see how the basic result will behave
a.8 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
- continuum from a.7 Candidate for the Double-ended Club
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg413255/#msg413255 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg413255/#msg413255)
- link to misc short video simulation (although sim is poorly done, unstable with lots of bouncing movement.... >o<)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/vn8wr3i5h159fq4/double-ended-club-direction.zip (http://www.mediafire.com/download/vn8wr3i5h159fq4/double-ended-club-direction.zip)
a-XXX XXX XXIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v8
a-XXX XXX XXV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v9
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 58.
< Two Versions of Motion for the Heavy Weights >
"If the clubs are even heavier by being double-ended, then instead of rolling them to the next position, they may be alternatively transported between the columns by switching ends. A double club may be moved in seesaw fashion by leaning it against the current broken column that the child is on and rolling it over the top of the column (assuming that there is enough room for the child to stay on top of the column). The double club is pivoted with a circular motion with one end going up while the other end goes down."
- refer to the image for simple visual presentation
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 59.
< A Further Interpretation of Karl's Peg & Weight >
"Count Karl explained that small pegs, which swung back out of the way as the weight passed the zenith, blocked these weights." - fictitious clue
- peg block the weight... which may mean that the peg is blocking the movement of the weight, so how did the weight move ?
- which wheel model did Karl witness ? (the above clue has no indication of how the weight move ?)
- refer to above post 'Two Versions of Motion for the Heavy Weights', take note that there are two versions of movement for the heavy weight a.k.a two different type of designs, possibly rolling for Gera, Draschwitz and circular motion for Merseburg, Kassel
- "peg swung back"... does the 'back' mean backward ?
- refer to 'a.6 Candidate for the Double-ended Club' for backward swinging example
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg413075/#msg413075 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg413075/#msg413075)
- if judging from the 'back' swing, probably Karl witness the Merseburg and Kassel version
a-XXX XXX XXVI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v10
Every wheel consists of 2 parts; the outer rim where weights apply their driving motive force
& the centre area, where torque is derived.
A wheel can have weight at the rim to provide an imbalance in every possible imaginative
design humanly possible, but it will NEVER move without utilising that torque.
Everywhere I go on the internet no-one utilises the torque. All these wheels are therefore
laid completely waste.
Is ANYONE out there using this powerful area of a wheel?!
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 60.
< A Deeper Look at the Diameter and Crossbar >
"The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter."
"If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in the machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster, and throw Wagner's calculations clean out of the window!"
- refer to past post image 'wheel_theory_76.jpg' has each weight 9 degrees apart, which would consist of 40 quarters/compartments. The torque difference gain is only 0.925Nm
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg414732/#msg414732 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg414732/#msg414732)
- whereas refer to image 'wheel_theory_77a.jpg', the weight 6 degrees apart, 60 quarters/compartments, having a torque difference gain of 2.515Nm
- so basically with more quarters/compartments a.k.a more weights a.k.a more crossbars, shows an increase of unbalance power (torque difference gain)
- and with the increase number of weights, in order to provide enough rooms to house these weights, the diameter of the wheel also increases
- but the question, does the increase of the diameter had any direct influence on the torque difference gain ?
- look at the image 'wheel_theory_77a.jpg' and 'wheel_theory_77b.jpg', both having same number of weights but different diameter, and the result of torque gain is the same 2.515Nm
- so the sole purpose of the diameter is to expand the room for housing more weights,
- ... and with more weights, more quarters
- ... more quarters, more crossbars
- ... more crossbars, more power
- ... and more power indicates increase in diameter (or vice versa, less power, smaller diameter)
- more info, refer back to Analysing of Bessler's Clues 01 to 04
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg402305/#msg402305 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg402305/#msg402305)
I do apologise for interrupting your current flow of wheel discussion,
But this time I need to bring your attention (for any future reference)
to my invention which is at http://gravitywheelperpetuator.com/
This device of mine has the ability to lift weights strongly & with reasonable
deftness. I hope this assists some of you wheel builders. Many hands.... ;)
a-XXX XXX XXVII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v11
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 61.
< Improvised Method, TreadWheel/Treadmill(or Horse mill)-Style Application >
- if the wheel can self-sustain its rotating, then it stands to say the wheel, when placed on a flat ground without the constriction of bearing, can continuously roll/move itself from point A to point infinity
- mill powered by human (treadwheel) or horse (horse mill), in this case, can be replaced by the wheel to turn the mill
a-XXX XXX XXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v12
a-XXX XXX XXVIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v13
a-XXX XXX XXX. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v14
a-XXX XXX XXX I. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v15
- basic behavior of swinging weight affecting the balance of the wheel
a-XXX XXX XXX II. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v16
a-XXX XXX XXX III. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v17
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 62.
< Stages of Force related to RPM changes >
- refer to diagram, speculating and identify the forces involved during different wheel rpm
- take note of the problems imposed by the rpm of the wheel, refer to below link
"The problem of 26/55 RPM, rolling weight version"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405645/#msg405645 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405645/#msg405645)
"The problem of 26/55 RPM, swinging weight version"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405794/#msg405794 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405794/#msg405794)
a-XXX XXX XXX IV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v18
a-XXX XXX XXX V. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v19
- issues with the interaction between the swinging weight and the rolling weight
a-XXX XXX XXX VI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v20
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 63.
< Seeking of the Punctum Quietus >
"Unlike all other automata, such as clocks or springs, or other hanging weights which require winding up, or whose duration depends on the chain which attaches them, these weights, on the contrary, are the essential parts, and constitute the perpetual motion itself; since from them is received the universal movement which they must exercise so long as they remain out of the centre of gravity; and when they come to be placed together, and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium, or the punctum quietus which they unceasingly seek in their wonderfully speedy flight, one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move."
- meaning of "quietus"
1. a finishing stroke; anything that effectually ends or settles
2. a period of inactivity
3. at rest, quiet
4. a release from life; death
5. a final discharge, as of a duty or debt
6. something that serves to suppress, check, or eliminate
- meaning of "punctum"
1. point
2. small area
3. moment
- so, "punctum quietus" can be interpreted as small area to end something, or (in other words) the beginning of something
- "the punctum quietus which they unceasingly seek..... which in its turn must also move", might meant the weights when reached the 'punctum', would be performing some action/movement
- "which in its turn must also move", so if it's not its turn, does that mean it (the weights) doesn't move ?
- which can also indicated that during the seek, probably the weights are not doing any movement or shifting a.k.a the weights are stationary at their location (but the wheel should still be rotating), and one or other weight are in 'right angles to axis' position
- refer to image for further description
Maybe not a square but a hexagon rotated so a point of the hexagon is at the apex of the disk.
This could cause the balance switching to occur before TDC.
Quote from: lumen on September 01, 2014, 03:19:45 PM
Maybe not a square but a hexagon rotated so a point of the hexagon is at the apex of the disk.
This could cause the balance switching to occur before TDC.
thks for the tips
not just hexagon, i also want to try on pentagon, octagon, rectangle, curve on the edge.... all sort of shape and design.... i'll go through all these testing for the future
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 64.
< Equilibrium >
"Unlike all other automata, such as clocks or springs, or other hanging weights which require winding up, or whose duration depends on the chain which attaches them, these weights, on the contrary, are the essential parts, and constitute the perpetual motion itself; since from them is received the universal movement which they must exercise so long as they remain out of the centre of gravity; and when they come to be placed together, and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium, or the punctum quietus which they unceasingly seek in their wonderfully speedy flight, one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis, which in its turn must also move."
- "equilibrium" meaning
1. a stable condition in which forces cancel one another
2. a state of rest or balance due to the equal action of opposing forces
- so simply in this case, assuming torque force on left side cancel out the torque force on the right
- and based on << torque force = mass x gravity x distance >> and "these weights (mass) are the essential parts", the mass might be an important factor to the working principle of bessler wheel
- refer to image for speculating on a simple concept of achieving non-equilibrium
a-XXX XXX XXX VII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v21
a-XXX XXX XXX VIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v22
a-XXX XXX XXX VIV. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 01
a-XXX XXX XXX X. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 02
I think you had it with wheel 91!
Just make the blue bars Roberval and have the weights hang from the center of the bars as shown!
The Roberval action will hold the weights off center and require no work to do it.
Quote from: lumen on September 05, 2014, 10:07:09 PM
Just make the blue bars Roberval and have the weights hang from the center of the bars as shown!
interesting suggestion, i didn't thought of that, thks
b-I. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v23
b-II. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 03
b-III. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 04
b-IV. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 05
- sim an Electrostatic Artificial Gravity environment
b-V. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 06
- sim an Electrostatic Artificial Gravity environment vs Earth Gravity
b-VI. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 07
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 65.
< Little Info, Wheel's Mass and its COM (center of mass) >
"By way of additional proof about its internal motive power, the perpetual motion machine was translocated to another support in such a way that the whole assembly could see over and under, and both sides of the machine; and all present were invited to visit the bearings, but no holes were found, all present examined them with their eyes, but no sign of fraud was there seen. It was possible to translocate the machine and turn it left and right as many times as was asked by the assembled respectable Commission."
"Before translocating the wheel, the Inventor who was performing the test for the officially appointed Commissioners, took out the weights and permitted one of them to be touched, wrapped in a handkerchief."
- the wheel with a diameter of 9-12 feet, in order to be able to translocate it to another support, it's best to build the wheel as light as possible, but still strong enough to support all the weights (swinging and rolling weights)
- also the mass of the wheel might affect the center of mass of the wheel, in turn affect the wheel's turning ability
- if the mass is too heavy, there's a possibility the wheel might not be able to start its initate rotation
- refer to image to see the difference in the center of mass between light and heavy mass of wheel
- this is based on assumption that the further distance apart the center of mass from the pivot point, the better for the initial/start turning of the wheel
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 66.
< Little Info, Distance between Weight and Rim >
- refer to image for description,
- based on info from the image, it is best for the weights (swinging and rolling) to be arranged near to the rim of the wheel
- related info, link to "Equilibrium"
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg416425/#msg416425 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg416425/#msg416425)
b-VII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v24
Possibly something using a Roberval lift?
Quote from: lumen on September 15, 2014, 02:43:07 PM
Possibly something using a Roberval lift?
i will try to sim this design first and let's see how it goes ;)
b-VIII. trying my hands on wm2d, magnet affecting the weight of object 08
- sim an Electrostatic Artificial Gravity environment with sensor to control the strength of the electrostatic force
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 67.
< Little Info, Small Bearing Diameter >
"The diameter of the wheel is about twelve feet, and as well, the bearing was quite thin, about one quarter of an inch and only a sixth of its length was subject to friction." - eyewitness clue
"Through the centre of this wheel or drum runs an axle of about six inches diameter, terminated at both ends by iron bearings of about three-quarters of an inch diameter upon which the whole thing turns." - eyewitness clue
- collection of bearing diameter from eyewitness account
1. quarter of an inch
2. three-quarters of an inch
- based on above, although slightly different reading from eyewitness's account, but nevertheless the common factor for the bearing is the small diameter
- the diameter of the bearing is very small, if compared to 9-12 feet diameter wheel (also take into consideration that the wheel, including all the weights, might be heavy, assuming to be 700 pounds or 317kg)
- "only a sixth of its length was subject to friction", a possible indication that only a small portion of the length of the bearing is in contact to the support,
- plus small diameter, the friction between the bearing and the support is kept to its minimum, more efficient
- but in doing so, introduce the bearing to heavy tension a.k.a wear and tear (this is a double-edge sword situation, gain one, loss one)
- refer to image for information
- so, the question is ... why choose 'minimum friction (better efficiency)' running the risk of 'heavy wear and tear (short life-span or easy breakdown)' ?
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 68.
< Little Info, Diameter of Bearing and the wheel's COM (center of mass) >
- refer to image for closer look at the distance between the wheel's COM and the bearing diameter
- also, if the COM of wheel is close to the pivot point, it would stand to indicate that the unbalance of the wheel is weak, very weak
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 69.
< Little Info, Strongest of Child and Lightest of Club >
"The levers loaded with heavy weights as viewed from the side, may be compared to side views of many children playing with very heavy clubs among tall broken columns. The strongest of the children cannot lift the lightest of the clubs. Still, each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column. Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended broken column.
If the clubs are even heavier by being double-ended, then instead of rolling them to the next position, they may be alternatively transported between the columns by switching ends. A double club may be moved in seesaw fashion by leaning it against the current broken column that the child is on and rolling it over the top of the column (assuming that there is enough room for the child to stay on top of the column). The double club is pivoted with a circular motion with one end going up while the other end goes down."
- "strongest of the children"... strong does not mean heavy
- "lightest of the clubs"... the 'lightest', in this case, is comparing among the same object, the club,
- but if comparing the club with another object, the club might be the heavy one
- so, let's assume that
1. child = swinging weight = light weight
2. club = rolling weight/see-saw weight = heavy weight
- refer to image for interpretation of the strongest of child and lightest of club
- more info, refer back to
1. the Light weight, the Heavy Weight and the Heavier Weight
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg403461/#msg403461 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg403461/#msg403461)
2. Basic Movement of the Weights
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg403957/#msg403957 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg403957/#msg403957)
3. A "Child & Club" Interpretation of Bessler Wheel
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405229/#msg405229 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg405229/#msg405229)
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 70.
< Little Info, How many 1 pound/4 pounds or 4 ounces/16 ounces ? >
"Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall"
- the question, how many number of the a pound weight and 4 ounces weight, or how many number of the 4 pounds weight and 16 ounces weight ?
- rephrase the sentence into 4 options to choose
1. who can make one heavy weight rise as one light weight fall
2. who can make n number of heavy weights rise as one light weight fall
3. who can make one heavy weight rise as n number of light weights fall
4. who can make n number of heavy weights rise as n number of light weights fall
- refer to image for the options on the number of weights
"The levers loaded with heavy weights as viewed from the side, may be compared to side views of many children playing with very heavy clubs among tall broken columns. The strongest of the children cannot lift the lightest of the clubs. Still, each child can swing (or you might call it "step" as it uses a club as a "leg") from the top of one broken column to the top of the next broken column by positioning his heavy club on the ground between the two close columns and holding on to the handle end to swing over to the top of the next column. Then he rotates the handle end of his club to maneuver it between his current column and his next intended column so that he can again "step" or swing a small angle over to the top of the next intended broken column."
- "strongest of children" - the strongest represent one child, or one object,
- same with "lightest of clubs" - one club, or one object
- and from previous post "Little Info, Strongest of Child and Lightest of Club", one light weight (child) cannot lift up one heavy weight (club)
With weights connected in a clutched Roberval wheel it may be possible to cause continuous rotation.
The video shows one weight Roberval and the other connected anti-Roberval. With clutching to both it would seem possible.
b-VIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v25 (lumen version)
- testing variation designs based on lumen's concept
http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg417432/#msg417432 (http://www.overunity.com/12742/cg-showcase-of-overbalanced-wheel/msg417432/#msg417432)
helloha: What kind of results do you get with the lift concept?
Quote from: lumen on September 21, 2014, 12:14:37 PM
helloha: What kind of results do you get with the lift concept?
Hi guys,
great concept, but you have to look in dynamics - a common problem.
When rpms increase, everything changes due to a centrifugal forces.
I think this is why majority of the wheels don't work.
Quote from: lumen on September 21, 2014, 12:14:37 PM
helloha: What kind of results do you get with the lift concept?
result - not good,
for now, i would continue to do some more variation testings
______________________________________________________________
b-X. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v26 (lumen version)
- testing with only slight changes
b-XI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v27 (lumen version)
- trying out some more variations
b-XII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v28
- back to the basics
So it looks like the Roberval lift is of no benefit while the weight remains connected to the wheel.
b-XIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v29
- balanced and unbalanced status of the swinging weights
- also test out the pin radius (bearing radius)
b-XIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v30 (fletcher version)
- an extract from fletcher's wheel thread from besslerwheel.com
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=128673#128673 (http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=128673#128673)
- testing a portion of the wheel to monitor the rolling action due to the cf effect
b-XV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v31 (fletcher version)
- testing the use of the swinging weight to unbalanced the wheel
b-XVI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v32 (fletcher + lumen version)
- combining the fletcher version and lumen version
- testing the interaction between the rolling weight and swinging weight
- using the rolling weight to push the swinging weight
b-XVII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v33 (fletcher + lumen version)
- using a blocking mechanism to delay the weight from rolling
b-XVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v34 (fletcher + lumen version)
- a locking mechanism to hold the swinging weight in the unbalanced position (the ratchet mechanism would be a better choice)
b-XVIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v35 (fletcher + lumen version)
b-XX. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v36 (fletcher + lumen version)
b-XXI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v37
b-XXII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v38
b-XXIII. trying my hands on wm2d, characterstics of an unbalanced wheel
- checking how an unbalanced wheel should behave
- predicted observation should be a continuous increase in rpm
- weak unbalanced, slow rpm increase; strong unbalanced, faster rpm increase
Working gravity wheel with animation.
b-XXIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v37 (fletcher + lumen version)
- focus on the ascending side of wheel where the rolling weight pushes up the swinging weight
- but wrong direction, rolling weight pushed the swinging weight away from the wheel, the swinging weight should face inward
- need to figure out methods to reverse the outward swing, getting the swinging weight to face inward
That's a good idea, but can't it be simplified?
Funny that my simulator fails just as it starts to work.(see animation)
b-XXV. trying my hands on wm2d, backward swinging method
- 2 methods for the swinging weights to swing backward
helloha,
I was attempting to apply the roberval action in the same manner as my working magnet motor simulation and it looks like it will work with gravity also.
To make it work you can simply flip the links using the roberval action at the top and bottom of the wheel ONLY.
This allows you to use a balanced system to flip the weights at a point where gravity is effecting the weights the least.
b-XXVI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v38 (fletcher + lumen version)
- testing on the backward swing method, but not a success
b-XXVII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v39
- simple test on swinging weight affecting on the roberval gear
b-XXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v40
- simple test on the interaction between the rolling weight and swinging weight, which in turn, affecting the wheel
b-XXVIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v41
- just a random test
Quote from: helloha on May 12, 2014, 08:24:02 PM
Analysing of Bessler's Clues 01.
"The machine's power was directly proportional to its diameter"
- the larger the diameter, the more power it has
- in other words, the smaller the diameter, the weaker it is
- take note: it did not mention the increase in power which result in the ability to turn the wheel, but should most probably be related either directly or indirectly
- so, if the diameter is very small, meaning very weak, can the wheel turn?
Hi,
May I point that power is the product of speed and torque ? And, that speed is caused, and
only caused by the high of fall (not by the weight) ? So, of course the power of a gravity wheel, if any, is mainly caused by its diameter. That's why most of experiments don't work : prototypes are often too small. Weight
can't counterbalance insufficient diameter.
I don't know if a gravity wheel could really turn... but it seems to me as obvious that only a big one could turn.
P.S. sorry for my poor english. That's not my native language...
b-XXX. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v42
- testing on the reaction time of the circle affecting the wheel
b-XXXI. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v43
- testing the influencing of torque force vs impact force
b-XXXII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v44
- testing the influence of torque force vs impact force
b-XXXIII. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v45
- testing the influence of torque force vs impact force
b-XXXIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v46
- testing the influence of torque force vs impact force
b-XXXV. trying my hands on wm2d, 3 different impact scenarios
Can you use the software on the Milkovic 2SO with the pendulum replaced by an unbalanced wheel?
b-XXXVI. trying my hands on wm2d, just for fun
b-XXXVII. trying my hands on wm2d, a "perfect" balance vs an "imperfect" balance
b-XXXVIII. trying my hands on wm2d, permanent influence vs temporary influence
b-XXXVIV. trying my hands on wm2d, comparing the difference of rotating speed rpm of the swinging weights at
1. left and right side unbalanced
2. top and bottom unbalanced
b-XXX X. trying my hands on wm2d, comparing the difference on the balance of the wheel caused by
1. one unbalanced swinging weight
2. more than one unbalanced swinging weights
b-XXX XI. trying my hands on wm2d, continuum from above post, adding more unbalanced swinging weights
b-XXX XII. trying my hands on wm2d, comparing the difference on the balance of the wheel caused by
1. one unbalanced swinging weight
2. more than one unbalanced swinging weights,
where the unbalance is at the lower right side of wheel
b-XXX XIII. trying my hands on wm2d, a "perfect" balance vs an "imperfect" balance ... again
b-XXX XIV. trying my hands on wm2d, Roberval Balance vs See-Saw Balance v47