There are many joule ringers/thiefs in the market and off course I have to start my own thread on the subject.
Following a good conversation with a fella from Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9h44yOReQA&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9h44yOReQA&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp)) I decided to pursue his designs.
I think this example on the video shows what intuition can do when properly apply. Mind is an incredible device that when we let it do its job, it does wonders.
In this video we have a kind of Joule thief design with a very interesting added second transistor and 2 potentiometer to control the voltage on the base of the transistors, and with that I think there is a unique characteristic that I have not seen in any other device, specially with "Sohei" (if he wants to disclose his name, he is free for that) clever thinking.
I would like to open discussions and experiments towards this variation and possible improvement to power real world lights with very , very little input power.
Fausto.
ps: this V4 is just to show that I seen so far 3 variations of Joule Thief and many forums but I think this one here from Sohei is unique ( I could be wrong - so forgive me for doing that ).
What two transistors?
LM317 is adjustable voltage regulator, apparently fed from the PC power supply. I don't see it, maybe it's in the PC ps box.
L7812CV is fixed 12-volt positive voltage regulator, TO-220 package, on the small heatsink, at the left side of the breadboard near the filter capacitors.
The only transistor I see is the TO-3 device, presumably 2n3055, sticking in the breadboard.
There's another one in the left background tie-wrapped upside down to a heatsink but I don't think that one is connected.
Why he's using 2 voltage regulators at the same voltage, in series... is a little strange. Normally you want to supply a 78-series VR with a little more voltage than its regulated output. If you give a 7812 only 12 volts input, it's not going to regulate very well.
The second potentiometer in the video looks to me like it's just in series with the 7s4p LED bank, or perhaps rigged as potentiometer (across C and E of transistor, with wiper feeding LEDs, other end of LEDs to E of transistor). Is there a complete schematic somewhere I can look at?
I've built a few variants of LaserSaber's circuit myself. My favorite ones light up a small neon on an input of ONE volt from a depleted AAA battery.
Hmm,
in the video he said he put 4 rows in parallel of 7 LEDs in series over the collector-emitter
of the transistor...
So where is the second transistor ?
Any circuit diagramm ?
I just played yeasterday night with a Joule Ringer and Joule Thief to build
myself a low voltage supply for an LED to show my new selfmade battery,,,
but have not yet got to make a new video out of it.
Must still tune it all a bit and look via my scope to it....
But with my more powerful Joule RInger I could light up an 28 Watts 230 Volts halogen bulb
alsready about a quarter brightness with around 11 Volts and 0.88 amps input.
Have been using some kind of Metglas or iron tape core from an electronic dollar store...
Regards, STefan.
I think there's no second transistor.
The only things on the breadboard are the 7812 regulator (could be mistaken for transistor) and the TO-3 device which is probably a 2n3055. The 7s4p bank of extra LED is, I think, connected between emitter and collector of this transistor. One potentiometer is on the base of this transistor as normal, the other potentiometer is hooked to the bank of extra LEDs, either as a simple variable dropping resisor in series, or as a potentiometer across the C-E, with wiper feeding LEDs at one end and other end of LEDs connected to emitter or circuit ground.
Hey guys,
thanks for shime-ing in.
Sorry, in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLYr9f9Mfc&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp) he does uses 2 transistor which is very unique configuration (at least for me). I will show an schematic as soon as he allows me (I am not sure if it is his design completely or a variation that is already on the forum).
The uniques of the design is very shown on this video where you can see that he is controlling 2 pots to get the flow of energy distributed and at the same time reducing the amount of input power.
140+ LEDs with 12v and 80ma is very unique to me. Specially when the LEDS are fully bright. Don't you think?
Fausto.
Greetings @all.
I am a newbie in here and also into the electronics world. I am just a very very curious man with my mind full of ideas.
Fausto convinced me to write and share my mistakes and my learning process, so here I am.
Yes, indeed on the video I am using an L7812 to regulate at 12v the Vin coming from a L317. I was using an very old potentiometer that was hard to keep the voltage, it was floating a lot. But with this build, 2 transistors, I was able to drive an empty 9w CFL with no circuit inside from 13v down to 5v, and the CFL was still bright enough to have enough light.
http://youtu.be/f7bZbdOErFY
This is the video with the details of the boxed SJR. I am still learning, I may have made few mistakes on this one. I am leaning by myself and by all of you that share your knowledge too.
Thank you Fausto.
Best regards to all.
Max
Quote from: plengo on November 11, 2012, 09:55:44 AM
Hey guys,
thanks for shime-ing in.
Sorry, in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLYr9f9Mfc&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvLYr9f9Mfc&list=UUxMsLEjmV_Ft0s4RoYJstUg&index=3&feature=plcp)) he does uses 2 transistor which is very unique configuration (at least for me). I will show an schematic as soon as he allows me (I am not sure if it is his design completely or a variation that is already on the forum).
The uniques of the design is very shown on this video where you can see that he is controlling 2 pots to get the flow of energy distributed and at the same time reducing the amount of input power.
140+ LEDs with 12v and 80ma is very unique to me. Specially when the LEDS are fully bright. Don't you think?
Fausto.
Well, that's not the version that was in the first video you linked. This one does show 2 x 2n3055 transistors. I've looked at the image at 0:18 of the circuit in the box, traced it out as best I could (the connection to the transformer's "red" wires is unclear") and it looks to me like the transistors are in strict parallel, with separate base potentiometer-fixed R for each one, and also an LED indicator running off the base pot for each transistor. There's a power "on" LED and a power switch.
I'd like to probe around in that circuit with a scope. Unfortunately all my 2n3055s are busy at the moment... I've got one lighting a 90 volt neon NE-2 brightly on 0.84 volts input from a dead AAA battery in front of me right now ....
12 V 80 mA is nearly a whole Watt of input power. Divide that up by 140 LEDs and that gives almost 7 mW per LED average. A white LED can get pretty bright on 7 mW straight DC, but what's actually happening is that the LEDs are being pulsed with higher voltage at short on-times and high frequency. They can appear even brighter that way, than when driven by straight DC at the same average power.
It's a neat circuit and there is a lot of light there. I am curious enough about the effect of the two parallel (if they are parallel) transistors to want to build and explore this myself.
Maybe set it up in that simple Farnell circuit sim.
Note that I added pictures to the first post with more details about his design variation.
Fausto.
Quote from: plengo on November 11, 2012, 06:45:28 PM
Note that I added pictures to the first post with more details about his design variation.
Fausto.
Yep, that first one called "circuit_small" is just what I drew out from the video image at 0:18 of the boxed version under construction. Much neater than my drawing of course. The third pot varying the brightness of the 7s4p LED bank wasn't visible to me though so it got left out from my drawing.
So the power transistors are in parallel collector arrangement, both driving the same coil. That is interesting and like I said I'd like to look at the resulting waveforms, especially if the two transistors can be made to oscillate at different phases/frequencies.
Thanks for posting that schematic.
The further ones look like bridge rectifiers working off of line current to provide a DC source for a bunch of LEDs.
Lighting the CFL brightly is the best result, I think. I have trouble with that, unless I disconnect one of the wires to the CFL and just use one wire. Then my CFLs light OK, on very low voltage inputs. But I'd like to get that kind of brightness on under 3 volts, and so far, no can do.
Got to get me some more power transistors!
Hi All,
the latest video of Sohei is pretty interesting !
have a look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhHhV4qutyA
He seems to have a power amplification effect with the coils being
counter-parallel winded !
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 20, 2012, 06:55:47 PM
Hi All,
the latest video of Sohei is pretty interesting !
have a look here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhHhV4qutyA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhHhV4qutyA)
He seems to have a power amplification effect with the coils being
counter-parallel winded !
Regards, Stefan.
I have similar effect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBY4aop9XFg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBY4aop9XFg)
Hi scratchrobot,
I wonder how the current taken from the 9V battery changes when you introduce the second coil with the yellow LED? Have you checked it or could you check it?
Thanks, Gyula
Very nice, I love the tiny size ! You could conceal the transmitting coil just about anywhere.... much more compact than my system.
Quote from: gyulasun on November 21, 2012, 04:18:38 AM
Hi scratchrobot,
I wonder how the current taken from the 9V battery changes when you introduce the second coil with the yellow LED? Have you checked it or could you check it?
Thanks, Gyula
Made another video, when i put on the first coil amp draw drops but with second coil it goes up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs)
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 21, 2012, 05:02:18 AM
Very nice, I love the tiny size ! You could conceal the transmitting coil just about anywhere.... much more compact than my system.
Thanks, i was thinking maybe i can put a coil in my mobile phone and charge it this way :)
Quote from: scratchrobot on November 21, 2012, 11:14:43 AM
Made another video, when i put on the first coil amp draw drops but with second coil it goes up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs)
Thanks, i was thinking maybe i can put a coil in my mobile phone and charge it this way :)
Very good video. Would you be able to repeat it but this time spin the coil 180 so we can see if the effect is still there?
Fausto.
Quote from: plengo on November 21, 2012, 11:52:20 AM
Very good video. Would you be able to repeat it but this time spin the coil 180 so we can see if the effect is still there?
Fausto.
Yes when i turn the coil it makes no difference, here is the circuit i used: http://www.voltage.g6.cz/bezdratovy-prenos-energie/ (http://www.voltage.g6.cz/bezdratovy-prenos-energie/)
@Scratch: I get similar effects with my larger wireless power systems, when multiple receivers are used. It's weird to see much more light output without a corresponding increase in transmitter current...
Thanks--keep up the good work. Are you also tuning the system with a small cap across your receiver coils? I can't quite tell from the vid.
Quote from: scratchrobot on November 21, 2012, 11:14:43 AM
Made another video, when i put on the first coil amp draw drops but with second coil it goes up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x71gl9YHoIs)
Thanks for the nice video answer.
Gyula
Since so many threads are so full of data I will post my work here. No body is reading anyway which will keep this little space here clean.
This is a photo of the collector of the 2N3055 of the Joule Ringer Cross-Over of Laserhaker replication I have done on this video: http://youtu.be/mzdHQCwhfQU (http://youtu.be/mzdHQCwhfQU)
The voltage input is 10.34v from 8 x 1.5v rechargeble batteries. Current is around 10ma or less. Observe that the picture is in DC mode and the little red triangle on the bottom left is the zero volts line.
Also note the 60hz or so frequency and the spikes on the bottom half cycle. Interesting about this picture is that it is a sine wave, almost perfect from a DC source and it is shorting and spiking perfectly on the middle (highest point) of the cycle. This is what is running the load on the secondary. The spikes.
The rest is just returning to the battery, I think. I am measuring electronically this system now like I do with my crystal cells.
Fausto.
It was easy to use standard transformers with early versions, 3 and 2. With this one, the transformer is an important key, if not THE most important.
With a lot of thinking I was able to reduce the amps to 20mA with a 7.5 from the battery. Tested a lot of places to return to the plus rail. Still have more work to do and maybe find a better transformer, but it stay from 7.54 - 7.55 for hours driving an 90v NE-2 neon bulb.
If someone is trying to run the CO with standard transformers, it is a very hard work - or much luck.
I also tried the totoalas suggestion of using the + of the battery into the circuit, the - goes to the earth ground and the neutral of the grid going to the - of the cap. It does reduce the amps from the battery, at least with the transformer I am using, but this was just a test.
Lowest voltage - .8v max voltage tested 12v. Ofc, with .8v only leds with very low light.
Regards,
Max.
It might be off topic:
I observed that a very low power Joule Thief type circuit
- connected to ground
- or connected to only one pole of a bigger battery
- or just placed near a device which is itself connected to the mains
- or which is touched by hand
- or all this things in combinations
picks up power from the 220V 50 Hz mains.
When investigating this strange behaviour I came up with the attached circuit (see drawing, DSO trace and photos) which allowed me to measure the power picked up from the mains. It is about 70 µA at at least 100 Volt in my set up (which is not a Joule Thief, just an Avramenko Plug).
With a longer cable the effect becomes of course more pronounced.
When doing these "ghost light experiments" with a Joule Thief type circuit try to find the frequency of your mains (or a harmonic) by measuring at the right places in the circuit (e.g. over the LED).
When running a longer wire through your house to a ground connection or to a big metal object one picks up power from the mains by inductive coupling or reactance (also through your body as a ground).
Greetings, Conrad
@Conrad: not OT at all I think. You are clearly illustrating the power available in the capacitatively-coupled "groundloop" caused by the mains EM field, which fluctuates around the Earth ground potential at 50Hz (or 60 for me) at the p-p value of your line voltage, and the true Earth ground. I think. Scoping the Earth ground directly with the scope probe, as 'signal' itself, with the scope probe's reference at the chassis ground (or mains neutral) can also be revealing.
Thanks for sharing, it will make a nice addition to my arsenal of unexpected -- but expected -- effects.
So far, though, in my circuits, I think that this energy isn't actually powering the light, but "only" providing the "tickle" that allows the low-voltage transistor to oscillate. This lets the stored energy in the reservoir cap be boosted in voltage by the JT oscillation in the inductor, and thus power the light itself. I think.
It's too bad we can't color the electrons Red, Blue, Green, etc. Then we could sort out where each contribution is coming from and where it goes. If we could see them, that is. If they even exist at all ....
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 28, 2012, 09:23:32 AM
@Conrad:
So far, though, in my circuits, I think that this energy isn't actually powering the light, but "only" providing the "tickle" that allows the low-voltage transistor to oscillate. This lets the stored energy in the reservoir cap be boosted in voltage by the JT oscillation in the inductor, and thus power the light itself. I think.
@TinselKoala: Yes, the term "tickle" describes it nicely.
The "tickle" probably feeds just enough current and Voltage into the base of the transistor to make the transistor switch through.
If one wants more than a "tickle" one has to create a rather high capacitive coupling with the mains (e.g. a long cable or placement near a 220V device preferably switched on).
I could produce spikes of LED brightness in a very low power Joule Thief by placing the circuit near my 220 V table light and switching the table light on and off. The spark in the switch caused a little power being induced into the Joule Thief circuit (in addition to the run down battery driving the Joule Thief).
Greetings, Conrad
@Conrad: I get the same triggering effect if I put my 4x NE-2 JT operating near the LS circuit and move it around or switch it on and off.
I have a question about the Joule Ringer Crossover device that might be critical. There appears to be a magnet connected to the inductor. If so, this setup might be similar to the Maccanti patent (WO 9840960). This patent claims overunity from applying fast high voltage spikes to a coil surrounding a permanent magnet.
I've been trying to find someone who has replicated the Maccanti device. Perhaps this is it.
Quote from: Eighthman on November 28, 2012, 09:22:20 PM
I have a question about the Joule Ringer Crossover device that might be critical. There appears to be a magnet connected to the inductor. If so, this setup might be similar to the Maccanti patent (WO 9840960). This patent claims overunity from applying fast high voltage spikes to a coil surrounding a permanent magnet.
I've been trying to find someone who has replicated the Maccanti device. Perhaps this is it.
@Eightman: the idea in WO9840960 is very interesting, I probably try it once I get the Arduino Due, which I am waiting for since two weeks. But I am a slow builder and most often I give up projects unfinished because something else catches my attention.
May be it is no news for you, at http://worldwide.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP you can look up all patents.
In the search report for WO9840960 one finds WO9637944, which writes about a new effect when pulsing a magnet with spikes, but it has to happen near absolute zero (towards the end of the description the technology is discussed in more detail).
So, I suspect, that nothing extraordinary will happen in a device according to WO9840960 at room temperature. But it is interesting nevertheless. Magnets are such mysterious things.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on November 29, 2012, 05:49:40 AM
@Eightman: the idea in WO9840960 is very interesting, I probably try it once I get the Arduino Due, which I am waiting for since two weeks. But I am a slow builder and most often I give up projects unfinished because something else catches my attention.
May be it is no news for you, at http://worldwide.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/numberSearch?locale=en_EP) you can look up all patents.
In the search report for WO9840960 one finds WO9637944, which writes about a new effect when pulsing a magnet with spikes, but it has to happen near absolute zero (towards the end of the description the technology is discussed in more detail).
So, I suspect, that nothing extraordinary will happen in a device according to WO9840960 at room temperature. But it is interesting nevertheless. Magnets are such mysterious things.
Greetings, Conrad
this
I can only add that this supposed free energy device is different from the MEG idea in which a magnetic field is thwacked back and forth in a core ( which I think probably generates measurement errors from apparent power).
I will try to see if there is any prior art or preceding patents.