Hi All,
what do you think about the new selfcharging device Mark Dansie has shown on the recent BEM
Energy conference in Hilversum in the Netherlands ?
Here ia s video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcflOcL7Odk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcflOcL7Odk)
Do you think this is some kind of electret material ?
Here is some summaries from Sterling D. Allan
http://pesn.com/2012/11/13/9602218_Mark-Dansie_Demonstrates_Solid-State-Chip_and_Water-Flashlight/ (http://pesn.com/2012/11/13/9602218_Mark-Dansie_Demonstrates_Solid-State-Chip_and_Water-Flashlight/)
who gave me the permission to post this video on my youtube channel.
I think, if this technology can be scaled up we will see in about 2 years from now such
a chip in every new smartphone and we will need no more batteries anymore for our phones...
Very exiting !
Many thanks to Mark and Sterling to bring this forward.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S. Regarding the Water flashlight I wonder if it is much different to
the Japanese NoPoPo battery.
This one also has an indefinite shelf life if you don´t have yet put water in there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zc51oUclAw&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47LuYQL6AoI&feature=watch_response
The NoPoPo battery works also with an internal magnesium rod and some
graphite powder mixed with magnesium or iron powder...
Probably Mark´s unit is also graphite versus magnesium based as this gives the most
power from dissimular metals in the environmental freindly metals range...
Regards, Stefan.
The chip is remarkable. I think I heard Mark say that at this point only microamps of current could be obtained, but that's certainly better than zero ... I'd like to know if it can drive a load of any kind or whether it can only feed really high impedance loads like DMMs or scopes. It is very interesting that it works better, in colder temperatures. I wonder if it could be transducing mechanical vibrations (sound, etc) and storing the energy as charge separation.
I don't really think it could have much to do with the bright light shown in the very short "early video" from a couple of years ago, there on Sterling's site, though.
Wow!
I am a big fan of Mark's and i trust what he says. This technology is very interesting. Do they have a working theory on where the energy comes from? This is great and I look forward to seeing what happens next. I believe this could be very big.
Bill
If it is getting its energy from thermal sources such as ambient environmental heat, then I would expect it to perform better when the material is colder as there would be a greater thermal gradient between itself and its environment.
I certainly think it is an interesting development, and one which potentially could be used for all manner of applications.
Cheers
It was tested in a Faraday cage but yet Mark says the energy is not coming from within? Does this mean that possibly there are frequencies of energy that would pass a Faraday cage that we do not know about? I am amazed by this.
Bill
It certainly looks interesting. Mark is not technical so it's understandable that he did not quote the two critical electrical parameters for the device. They are the open-circuit voltage and the output impedance. With that information the next logical step would be to put the impedance-matched load across the device and just let it run. By that I mean let it run for months. You do this to rule out chemical energy as a possible power source. The way it sounds one could assume that they have already done this, but they would have to share their data. You can't forget that if the device is outputting only microwatts of power, then chemical energy could actually power it for months, i.e.; a battery.
I can't speak for this device but normally (in fact always as far as I can see) it's a misnomer to state that a device "collects electrons" from the environment, or wherever. I know that this is commonly stated and I don't denigrate Mark or anyone non-technical for saying that. However, for the sake of completeness, the device would not be collecting electrons from anywhere. What it's doing is "boosting" some of the electrons that are already in the circuit up to a higher potential. An "electron pump" would be a more accurate way to describe what the device appears to be doing. You don't have to gather electrons from anywhere, you just have to pump up some of the existing electrons to a higher potential.
For me it's still way to early to have that Eureka! moment.
Yup, I`d have liked to see it driving a (very small) load as well, but very interesting all the same.
I wonder if the chip contains any magnetic material ? I guess we'll have to wait and see if new
information gets released, that's as long as Lockheed Martin don't buy up the technology.
I would like to see that voltage climb to 200V or so. Why did he keep shorting it?
I sure hope that it's not the voltmeter that is charging that chip. ???
Agreed, they need to show it powering some small load to be certain it is real.
I think he is shorting because the voltage doesn't climb above 5V but 40 of those cells would give 200V but no sparks :P
This technology is indeed real and so are solar cells, I bed there are more sources to extract energy from.
thanks for posting Stephan
Quote from: poynt99 on November 16, 2012, 09:51:53 AM
I would like to see that voltage climb to 200V or so. Why did he keep shorting it?
I sure hope that it's not the voltmeter that is charging that chip. ???
Agreed, they need to show it powering some small load to be certain it is real.
Personally I don't trust mr. dansie and I'll agree with poynt99 for a change ;) I don't think he's got much there unless he can show it powering something. And that would need close scrutiny IMO.
Quote from: poynt99 on November 16, 2012, 09:51:53 AM
I would like to see that voltage climb to 200V or so. Why did he keep shorting it?
I sure hope that it's not the voltmeter that is charging that chip. ???
Agreed, they need to show it powering some small load to be certain it is real.
I've just done a couple of little experiments with a piezo speaker element, a 1n34 germanium diode, and a mica capacitor that had some suggestive and intriguing results. I wonder what would happen if the appropriate materials were bonded together into a layered disk.
I wonder if the spring pressure of the alligator clips is powering it !!
I guess he shorted it to show that it recovers its charge quickly, over and over. I don't think the meter, if it is working correctly, can charge it up on a Voltage setting. At least my Simpson DMM can't charge anything that way. Of course if it's malfing, all bets are off.
Quote from: e2matrix on November 16, 2012, 12:43:15 PM
Personally I don't trust mr. dansie and I'll agree with poynt99 for a change ;) I don't think he's got much there unless he can show it powering something. And that would need close scrutiny IMO.
What have you got against Dansie? I'm not arguing or challenging, just fact-finding. I thought it was a little weird that he is supposed to be sharing facilities and personnel with the makers of one or more of the products he brought, and I've see his name bandied about by third parties who apparently really _really_ want his endorsement for their claims for some reason. I always thought that, in the past, he was pretty impartial and hard to hornswoggle. I hope that hasn't changed....
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 17, 2012, 01:48:13 AM
What have you got against Dansie? I'm not arguing or challenging, just fact-finding. I thought it was a little weird that he is supposed to be sharing facilities and personnel with the makers of one or more of the products he brought, and I've see his name bandied about by third parties who apparently really _really_ want his endorsement for their claims for some reason. I always thought that, in the past, he was pretty impartial and hard to hornswoggle. I hope that hasn't changed....
It's just a sense I've gotten from reading his messages here and elsewhere as well as watching some videos. I could be wrong but I'll go with my gut feeling and reading his body language (in the video above his eye movements can be interpreted as exaggerating the truth or outright lies - that of course is not proof or 100% reliable but can be a gauge) to not give him much trust until proven otherwise. But I will hope he does really have something that can be useful.
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 17, 2012, 01:43:51 AM
I've just done a couple of little experiments with a piezo speaker element, a 1n34 germanium diode, and a mica capacitor that had some suggestive and intriguing results. I wonder what would happen if the appropriate materials were bonded together into a layered disk.
I wonder if the spring pressure of the alligator clips is powering it !!
I guess he shorted it to show that it recovers its charge quickly, over and over. I don't think the meter, if it is working correctly, can charge it up on a Voltage setting. At least my Simpson DMM can't charge anything that way. Of course if it's malfing, all bets are off.
The piezo effect could be utilised for so many small apparatus like digital watches, ipods, etc. An integrated circuit comprising the components you listed would probably be even better.
The chip shown in the video may be utilizing piezo and peltier effects. (or neither LOL)
Keeping an ear to the ground for further information on this one! ..... KneeDeep
Hello, I'd like to add a few observations. The disk might have more than one or even several layers that are hard to see without close examination. The insulation under the opposed sides to polarize the clips pretty much says there's an anode and cathode side. I've done hundreds of crystal cell experiments where the cell can be shorted repeatably and the voltage keeps coming back. It can go on for much longer than the length of this video. By the way in my particular case it has noting to do with collecting energy from outside the cell. I'm not sure I saw things right but as the video went on it appeared that the cell was loosing its recovery rate. At first it jumped to 5 volts then 3 volts then slowly moved up toward 1 volt then started going down and eventually ended up with a negative voltage and still going down. Sorry friends but I hardly believe anything I see anymore without more proof than this video. Don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to a finished product from these guys but to me the video raises questions. On the other hand the replaceable anode on the water battery is a good solution to the age old problem. Everyone is trying to come up with a cell where there is no deterioration of the anode. Ha, just remove it and put in another one. Good show Mark good luck.
John Hav.
Quote from: hartiberlin on November 15, 2012, 07:49:37 PM
P.S. Regarding the Water flashlight I wonder if it is much different to
the Japanese NoPoPo battery.
This one also has an indefinite shelf life if you don´t have yet put water in there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zc51oUclAw&feature=related (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zc51oUclAw&feature=related)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47LuYQL6AoI&feature=watch_response (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47LuYQL6AoI&feature=watch_response)
The NoPoPo battery works also with an internal magnesium rod and some
graphite powder mixed with magnesium or iron powder...
Probably Mark´s unit is also graphite versus magnesium based as this gives the most
power from dissimular metals in the environmental freindly metals range...
Regards, Stefan.
I have those nopopo batteries and they suck big time. Very little standing life when you put water and they expand and crack open very fast.
I think it is a great idea, but not ready for industrial value in my humble opinion.
This guys video is no different if what I have found about crystal batteries. You can not kill one, I had one running for one month without any input of power and they continued producing power, little but it is there, voltage and current.
Fausto.
Hello Fausto, You are one who certainly would know about cell characteristics. I don't think anyone is really slamming Mark, it's just that his disclosure needs more information right? Think about this in his defense. I don't think the cell can charge from the meter. My experience is the opposite. We aren't set on ohms where there needs to be a current from the meter in order to measure resistance right? You and I have both had cells that the meter would drain. If you disconnect the meter the cell rejuvenates and looks like Mark's cell at the beginning of the video. If he where here he might say that the current is so low that you have to leave the meter disconnected for a while in order for it to look as good as when it started. Mark said it would rejuvenate indefinitely but he didn't give more parameters on the statement. we've made cells that would do the same yet deteriorate over time depending on the load. The light load of some devices may be different. I have a few small cells running LCD clocks for over three years now completely unattended and completely dry salts, but If I would have been loading the cell more I'm sure I would have had some corrosive effect. I hope Mark has better luck. To bad it doesn't look like open source technology. We may never know what the properties of the cell are.
Take care.
John Hav.