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I am really excited with this circuit for its simplicity and function.  I don't know of any other way to get this much light for so little power.

I had put all the electronics away in a box, quite content with the LynxJouleLamp lighting my front yard and garage off the DC converter.  Then you guys keep exploring and doing intriguing things.  I tried the Crossover circuit, maybe I did something wrong but the light is not very useful, and multiple bulbs kills it.  Got me thinking though, drawing yet simpler circuits. 
Last night I stumbled on something after hours of moving wires, jumping to this diode and that capacitor, trying this transformer and that....

Lynx Joule Inverter recipe
Ingredients:
Transformer.  I have used 1:1, 2:1, 10:1, 20:1, audio, radio shack, ECore and they all work. 
A 120 volt LED bulb or a couple. 
9-12 volt battery.

These bulbs wont light on 12 volts but they may flash.  That's the key.  They propagate the field in the transformer.  The hz is running at 168, amp draw is .017-.050  Its interesting because these bulbs are rated for 120V AC and 48ma.  So these bulbs are running on 1/10th the voltage.

I'll do a video later today and post here.  I'm calling it the Lynx Joule Inverter because it does what an inverter does, and acts like a Joule Thief.  No transistor, capacitor or resistor needed.

Hah... I think I get the idea.  Very nice! The LED lamp itself is causing the oscillations that make the transformer effect work with "DC" supply. You hook up the battery to the lesser-turn side of the transformer. This causes a current surge that makes a voltage spike on the primary that is enough to flash the bulb which causes a further current draw, dropping the input voltage, dropping the output voltage, turning the light bulb off.... which causes another spike which causes another current drain on the battery.... self-oscillation, maybe !

I think this will require knowing the exact make and model of your LED bulb.... and might also be affected by cliplead inductance and connection security, and ghosts, for all I know.

I am just speculating, and I'm about to go out to buy one of those bulbs.... Please ....what's the spec on the bulb??

Here is the video of the Lynx Joule Inverter.  I show it running 1,2,3 bulbs off several transformers.  These bulbs always baffled me because they draw too much power off SJR3.0, and the LJL.  But look what they do off a simple transformer!
I am sure brightness can be affected by turns ratio and the transformer resistance.  Each transformer I show has a different characteristic.  If you see flicker just reverse the secondary.  If you do wind a transformer pull out several taps and number the turns.
Positive 12v to a primary lead, other primary to bulb, secondary to bulb, other secondary to ground (negative 12 v)
Have fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz5fR0yn0yI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz5fR0yn0yI)

Hi Lynxsteam,

What you have discovered is an automatic governer for electrical systems with an extremely simple circuit. Well done, I am very impressed!

I have been focusing heavily on this technology principle for alternative fields and slowly bringing this knowledge into the community. It is an essential principle for automatic control of a system, effectively hunting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_turbine_governing

http://www.overunity.com/13110/everyman-automatic-pwm-steam-governer-assembly/msg345286/#new

Governer technology is extremely important, I will have to think about the potential applications in electrical fields, but it is the same as automatic control over pressure and mass flow of a fluid, or in this case voltage and current.

Watching this with interest, keep up the good work!

Rob  ;D

Tinsel

The bulbs are either GE or Philips (maybe others).  Philips 3W LED and GE 3W LED use the same electronics base made in China LED3A15/C 100-127 v 50/60hz

They run poorly on SJR or the LJL circuits.  Big amp hogs.  But they run very nice just off just a transformer.  Everything is cool, no ringing, low ma.  The circuitry in the bulb is turning the DC on and off.  But once that starts the L1 and L2 start oscillating.  Depending on the transformer Hz can be 168 and up to 1000.

Positive 12 v to primary, other primary to bulb, secondary to bulb, other secondary to negative 12 v.

If you get flicker reverse the secondary.

I think with some tinkering we can find the right number of turns, resistance, and turns ratio for full brightness. 

  Nice to see you back again. Have you tried to light any Cfls on this set up?
                                                                                                                   NickZ

Lynx, that is so cool, a real discovery of merit. I still haven't had a chance to get out and buy a bulb.

Are you running with a battery, or using a bench or PC power supply?

Now to watch the video... heh... and there it is, on the battery. Good!
:D

So, according to the drawing above by lynx, all that is needed is a series inductor, not necessarily a transformer.  ;)

Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2012, 08:03:05 AM
So, according to the drawing above by lynx, all that is needed is a series inductor, not necessarily a transformer.  ;)

Mags

Maybe. There might be some interaction between the windings, meg-like or just moving saturation points around. It would be interesting to probe the transformer with a strong magnet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwm0r0bk8dM
another variant

Quote from: Lynxsteam on November 29, 2012, 08:49:25 PM
I think with some tinkering we can find the right number of turns, resistance, and turns ratio for full brightness.

This is the same procedure as setting the spring pressure for a pressure relief valve:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_valve

A PRV dumps the pressure to atmosphere to prevent a dangerous overpressure condition in the chamber.

The alternative application embodied in the Everyman governer is to maximise potential power to do useful work, a process of swapping springs (resistance) until you find the right balance to maximise performance.

The parallels between the known technologies and Lynx's discovery are very interesting to me. I have my thinking cap on...

Magluvin

Yes, you are right.  Just an Inductor for these bulbs.  Makes it even easier now.  If the Inductance is too low the bulbs only flash.  Either winding on most of the transformers works but the primary on the ECore is too low Inductance.  Power draw is the same in this mode.  Power draw is self adjusting as you add bulbs, brightness is better with heavier gauge windings.

I wound an inductor on a Ferrite snap together choke.  Super easy and works very well.  A coil of heavy gauge wire on a pvc tube works well too.  Ahhh, I miss the days when we used circuit boards.  The circuit is now in the bulb.

Hi Lynxsteam,

Very cool, thanks for showing it.  I wonder somehow a variable mains auto transformer (Variac) could be used  to figure out the best ratio?  Possibly the variac would need some modification though.

Thanks, Gyula

Verrrrrrry cool! Nice inverter.
Of course, I want to try it out with my light box to see how it performs quantitatively, but already --
1.  off-the shelf transformer
2.  NO transistors or diodes added.

Thanks, LynxSteam!

I tried some inductors alone.  Didn't work.  The transformer works best.  Really needs that ferrite core, or steel laminations, otherwise you have to wind a monster aircore coil.  I have a Philips 3.5 watt bulb which doesn't work because it is dimmable.  be careful when choosing a test bulb.  Find a non-dimmable.

Quote from: Lynxsteam on November 30, 2012, 06:49:51 PM
I tried some inductors alone.  Didn't work.  The transformer works best.  Really needs that ferrite core, or steel laminations, otherwise you have to wind a monster aircore coil.  I have a Philips 3.5 watt bulb which doesn't work because it is dimmable.  be careful when choosing a test bulb.  Find a non-dimmable.

Hey Lynx

I had ordered some key fob transmitters and receivers from Lynx I believe, some years ago for for an automotive 'wheel' lighting project. Worked great.  ;)

Hmm, I still see it just as an inductor that is needed. Just the right size/value should suffice. 
I did a lot of work on Teslas, Igniter for Gas Engines circuit, and thats what got me to think inductor only.  Not absolutely sure yet.  So far im just working in my mind with this. ;)

Im going to pick up a couple bulbs(led) this weekend.

Im dying to see whats inside. :o ;D lol. I requested this before from someone that was working with these, but I dont think they opened them yet.  ??? Heck, just about everyone has opened a spiral FL bulbs base to see the circuitry. But no body seems to be interested in popping open an led yet. As far as I know. Maybe most assume it is just super simple and not worth the pluck of a flat head screw driver. ;)

There must be a converter of some sorts. These days its mostly all rectified wall current to a cap to around 150V, then that pulsed into a transformer to get the desired output. Being that your setup shows blinking reactions and ways to limit that, by change of inductance, then it must be a pulsed converter.

The inductors properties can allow the cap in the bulb circuit to load up to more than 12 from the battery.  I might say that the initial voltage to the cap when 12 is applied through the inductor could be upwards of 24V. Then the dc to dc portion of the circuit most likely can operate at that initial voltage, causing the cap to pull more from the battery, in pulses, and at maybe higher voltages than 24.  The inductor causes a flywheel effect as it doesnt want to allow current to stop flowing somewhat once it starts conducting.

Juleseeker doing the light box test is a good idea. I dont know if it will absolutely determine output power differences, but if he sees equality in normal operation and your way of powering it, then we should get close to a real idea of what we are getting one way or the other.  The flickering may affect readings. It would be good to have a high sample rate light meter and a computerized graph. Or a scope with a light sensor.

Have you popped one of these bulbs open yet?   If no, WHY!!!! ;D   lol  just kidding.

Maybe I will be the first. ;)

Thanks for showing. ;]

Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2012, 07:48:30 PM
Hey Lynx

I had ordered some key fob transmitters and receivers from Lynx I believe, some years ago for for an automotive 'wheel' lighting project. Worked great.  ;)

Hmm, I still see it just as an inductor that is needed. Just the right size/value should suffice. 
I did a lot of work on Teslas, Igniter for Gas Engines circuit, and thats what got me to think inductor only.  Not absolutely sure yet.  So far im just working in my mind with this. ;)

Im going to pick up a couple bulbs(led) this weekend.

Im dying to see whats inside. :o ;D lol. I requested this before from someone that was working with these, but I dont think they opened them yet.  ??? Heck, just about everyone has opened a spiral FL bulbs base to see the circuitry. But no body seems to be interested in popping open an led yet. As far as I know. Maybe most assume it is just super simple and not worth the pluck of a flat head screw driver. ;)

There must be a converter of some sorts. These days its mostly all rectified wall current to a cap to around 150V, then that pulsed into a transformer to get the desired output. Being that your setup shows blinking reactions and ways to limit that, by change of inductance, then it must be a pulsed converter.

The inductors properties can allow the cap in the bulb circuit to load up to more than 12 from the battery.  I might say that the initial voltage to the cap when 12 is applied through the inductor could be upwards of 24V. Then the dc to dc portion of the circuit most likely can operate at that initial voltage, causing the cap to pull more from the battery, in pulses, and at maybe higher voltages than 24.  The inductor causes a flywheel effect as it doesnt want to allow current to stop flowing somewhat once it starts conducting.

Juleseeker doing the light box test is a good idea. I dont know if it will absolutely determine output power differences, but if he sees equality in normal operation and your way of powering it, then we should get close to a real idea of what we are getting one way or the other.  The flickering may affect readings. It would be good to have a high sample rate light meter and a computerized graph. Or a scope with a light sensor.

Have you popped one of these bulbs open yet?   If no, WHY!!!! ;D   lol  just kidding.

Maybe I will be the first. ;)

Thanks for showing. ;]

Mags

Magluvin,

I did post the circuit drawing of a OSRAM 3W LED lamp, but I can re-post it here.
I do not think that the 110VAC types differ much from the 230VAC ones.
I have also attached the data sheet for the LED driver IC used in LED lamps.

GL.

Mags,

Some links for you:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led.htm

http://www.extremecircuits.net/2010/05/ultra-bright-led-lamp.html

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16646021/LED-LAMP-Circuits

http://avalights5.businesscatalyst.com/how-leds-work

http://www.digitalversus.com/led-lamps.html

There are loads more on google. Might help everyone when playing with custom circuits for this new application  :)

Quote from: evolvingape on November 30, 2012, 08:31:51 PM
Mags,

Some links for you:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led.htm (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/led.htm)

http://www.extremecircuits.net/2010/05/ultra-bright-led-lamp.html (http://www.extremecircuits.net/2010/05/ultra-bright-led-lamp.html)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16646021/LED-LAMP-Circuits (http://www.scribd.com/doc/16646021/LED-LAMP-Circuits)

http://avalights5.businesscatalyst.com/how-leds-work (http://avalights5.businesscatalyst.com/how-leds-work)

http://www.digitalversus.com/led-lamps.html (http://www.digitalversus.com/led-lamps.html)

There are loads more on google. Might help everyone when playing with custom circuits for this new application  :)

Thanks E

When I was a kid, I took all my electric/electronic toys and stuff apart, to see what was in there.  ;D If this circuit in the led bulbs is responsible for 'possibly' getting more light out for less, then I want to see the circuit in that bulb Lynx has.

I read an article that stated that the government implemented new rules for making ac induction motors so they cant be converted to rotoverters? I think it was.

So who knows here. Get it.   So many new circuits today, who knows what they can do, with mods or out of their recommended limits of operation.

And maybe in the end, the light really isnt as bright as full ac power. Maybe its just a flashing illusion. The brain is funny that way. ;)

But I still want to see. ;D   The kid in me.  ;)

So Ill be ripping one apart this weekend.  :o :)

Mags

I just tried 18.5 volts and the amp draw is 163ma for three 3W bulbs (3 watts or about a watt apiece).  The ma draw is linear with voltage.  Magluvin, I think you are right that these are set up to convert 120 vac to 24vdc.  The bulbs are almost full bright at 21 vdc. 

This is just an option to the SJR and LJL which work very well.  Its a good option for simplicity and for those non-dimmable bulbs.  Maybe a good option to avoid converting solar to battery to inverter to AC where there are a lot of losses.  If you can just run lighting straight from solar that's very efficient. 

I don't think any special inductor or transformer is needed as long as the resistance isn't too high.  A simple radio shack 10:1 is cheap and sturdy.  I hope some of you try this and relate your observations.

Quote from: Groundloop on November 30, 2012, 08:05:46 PM
Magluvin,

I did post the circuit drawing of a OSRAM 3W LED lamp, but I can re-post it here.
I do not think that the 110VAC types differ much from the 230VAC ones.
I have also attached the data sheet for the LED driver IC used in LED lamps.

GL.

Thanks G ;)

Very cool, thank you.  ;)

Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2012, 09:12:24 PM
Thanks G ;)

Very cool, thank you.  ;)

Mags

lol, must have hit quote instead of modify to do an edit. Oh well. ;D

Mags

  Lynxsteam:
   I connected a ferrite bead (rod) transformer that I made using 4 ferrite beads in line to form a rod. And connected it to the LS joule ringer 3.0 version circuit to light a 24 watt Cfl to what looks like close to full brightness, using about 19 volts. It lasted about 3 minutes and popped something inside which killed the internal circuit. So, these homemade inverters need to be made to specs, or they just damage the internal circuits of both the Led bulbs, as well as the Cfls, if their output is too high. This has also happened with the AC 110v led bulbs. 
The gutted Cfls are not as easy to damage, as there is no circuit to burn, but they can start to carbonize the bulbs in time, if there is to much HV.
  I still have not been able to light the higher wattage Cfl bulbs that I have, like the 65 watt ones, to anywhere close to full brightness using these home made inverters.

  I think that using either 12 volt Cfls, or the 12v Led bulbs is really the best way to go when running off of solar. The 12v Cfls are $7 to $10 or so, compared to about the same price for the 12v Led bulbs (on ebay). But, the Cfls outputs twice as much light, so their actual cost per lumen/watt is 1/2 compared to Led bulbs. 
So, the (free gutted) Cfls are still much easier to afford for now, if you can get them to light up brightly. I wish that I could... I'm getting there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXrpH_NLWiw&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXrpH_NLWiw&feature=youtu.be)
  also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chEwqvtJUOA&NR=1&feature=endscreen
   NickZ
   

Quote from: Magluvin on November 30, 2012, 08:56:23 PM
When I was a kid, I took all my electric/electronic toys and stuff apart, to see what was in there.  ;D If this circuit in the led bulbs is responsible for 'possibly' getting more light out for less, then I want to see the circuit in that bulb Lynx has.

I read an article that stated that the government implemented new rules for making ac induction motors so they cant be converted to rotoverters? I think it was.

So who knows here. Get it.   So many new circuits today, who knows what they can do, with mods or out of their recommended limits of operation.

And maybe in the end, the light really isnt as bright as full ac power. Maybe its just a flashing illusion. The brain is funny that way. ;)

But I still want to see. ;D   The kid in me.  ;)

So Ill be ripping one apart this weekend.  :o :)

Mags

I was the same as a kid, took everything apart to see how it worked. Most of the time it was bust after and ruined, my parents still talk about it now. Some kids are like that I spose  ;D Maybe you don't need light as bright as it can go, I never have my lights on full, dim them to a lower setting and it's perfect for me. I did not just put the links up for you, but for the people without your depth of knowledge and understanding. It is very easy to forget that people have different levels of understanding, so we should help them with a few nuggets of info so they can then dig themselves if they want to. It's not an insult to your abilities, please don't see it that way.

Quote from: Lynxsteam on November 30, 2012, 08:56:24 PM
Maybe a good option to avoid converting solar to battery to inverter to AC where there are a lot of losses.  If you can just run lighting straight from solar that's very efficient. 

Agreed. Solar storage during the day, low energy lighting at night. Very efficient and reliable and makes up for low solar to electricity efficiency 15% ish of the panels ;D

Quote from: NickZ on November 30, 2012, 09:24:24 PM
  Lynxsteam:
   I connected a ferrite bead (rod) transformer that I made using 4 ferrite beads in line to form a rod. And connected it to the LS joule ringer 3.0 version circuit to light a 24 watt Cfl to what looks like close to full brightness, using about 19 volts. It lasted about 3 minutes and popped something inside which killed the internal circuit. So, these homemade inverters need to be made to specs, or they just damage the internal circuits of both the Led bulbs, as well as the Cfls, if their output is too high. This has also happened with the AC 110v led bulbs. 
The gutted Cfls are not as easy to damage, as there is no circuit to burn, but they can start to carbonize the bulbs in time, if there is to much HV.
  I still have not been able to light the higher wattage Cfl bulbs that I have, like the 65 watt ones, to anywhere close to full brightness using these home made inverters.

   NickZ

Typically, 400v caps are used after the bridge rectifier from input. As also shown in G's circuit above.  I have seen 200 and 300v, but 400 is more typical.

If the cap is 400v, the rectifier is most likely the same or more. 

Crack that sucker open and see what blew.  ;D   If the cap shorted, then there is possibility that the circuit after that is ok. Some caps may actually handle higher voltages than specified and some of this could get into the operating circuitry and maybe cause damage.

But maybe the cap is shot and your back in business with a replacement.  ;)

Mags

  Yes, thanks. That was what blew, and I did replace it with another cap, as this was a brand new 24 watt Cfls which I liked a lot. But, that did not fix it, even though the cap was obviously cracked open, something else also must have burnt out. I'm tossing it in the big pile of other discarded Cfls for later recycling. Not worth the time it takes to fix, as they just costed about 6 dollars. It still works with the Exciter type circuits.
  I don't know if you've seen my Joule Ringer Lamp video, inspired by Lynx, as well as Lasersaber.
It's running on 12v, and lighting a gutted 65 watt Cfl bulb. This is about as much light as I can get out of it using these circuits.  I'm thinking of buying some 110 volt flourescent light circuits to connect to my newer joule ringer circuit, now that it can light 110v bulbs off of 12 volt batteries, or solar.
Or even getting 12 v flourescent light circuits, to light any tube, round halo bulbs, or Cfls.   Anyways,  just a thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iTdrjIRiwo

Quote from: NickZ on November 30, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
  Yes, thanks. That was what blew, and I did replace it with another cap, as this was a brand new 24 watt Cfls which I liked a lot. But, that did not fix it, even though the cap was obviously cracked open, something else also must have burnt out. I'm tossing it in the big pile of other discarded Cfls for later recycling. Not worth the time it takes to fix, as they just costed about 6 dollars. It still works with the Exciter type circuits.
  I don't know if you've seen my Joule Ringer Lamp video, inspired by Lynx, as well as Lasersaber.
It's running on 12v, and lighting a gutted 65 watt Cfl bulb. This is about as much light as I can get out of it using these circuits.  I'm thinking of buying some 110 volt flourescent light circuits to connect to my newer joule ringer circuit, now that it can light 110v bulbs off of 12 volt batteries, or solar.
Or even getting 12 v flourescent light circuits, to light any tube, round halo bulbs, or Cfls.   Anyways,  just a thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iTdrjIRiwo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iTdrjIRiwo)

Ah. Well you can poke around to see if anything is shorted with a meter. Just to know.  ;)

Yes, I have seen the vid.    ;D

I wonder if we are stuck with just getting more light output per power in, rather than maybe charging another battery with a smaller on on the input. If ya know what I mean.
There must be a reason for a lot of claims having light bulbs as loads instead of motors or powering other devices that provide other forms of usefulness.

As for serious usefulness of cheaper lighting, this is great stuff. Ever fly in a jet plane and look down at the cities at night? Each one of those lil tiny orange street lights is 400 to 1000w. If we could just reduce that substantially, it would be a great accomplishment.

Nice work.  ;)

Mags

  The problem with getting more light out of the bulbs is the transistor heat issue, at anything above 12v. or burning out the internal circuitry of the 110v Cfls, and Led bulbs. So, either we'll have to be satisfied with lower light intensity, or... build somewhat more inefficient circuits using more components that will allow for higher voltage/current levels. The Joule Ringer's single transistor circuit work very well for the 110 volt, 7.5 watt led bulbs. I just can't buy them here in Costa Rica, yet. I'll have some brought to me sometime soon though. In the meantime these are the best bang for the buck that I've seen yet: 5  900 lumen 10 watt Led lights, for $12, free shipping.
Wish they came with a small fixture, to mount them on the ceiling.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-10W-Watt-LED-Cool-White-High-Power-900LM-LED-Lamp-SMD-Chip-9-12V-DC-/330790452557?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D117%26meid%3D2880964511898202726%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1065%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D110946278953%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-10W-Watt-LED-Cool-White-High-Power-900LM-LED-Lamp-SMD-Chip-9-12V-DC-/330790452557?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555001%26algo%3DPW.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D117%26meid%3D2880964511898202726%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1065%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D110946278953%26)

That LED driver circuit looks to me like you might be able to get away with using a simple mosfet in place of the "driver" chip. The optoisolator output feeding the gate of the mosfet, with a resistor or two scattered about in there. I've used optoisolators to trigger mosfets before, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Nick,

This thread really isn't about lighting CFLs, but I understand your situation.  LEDs are expensive and not available easily in Costa Rica.  You can light unmodded CFLs on the LJL with collector/secondary connection.  Moving the connection from emitter to collector really keeps the transistor in its range.  A 2n3055 can handle 60-70 watts. But CFLs are power hogs compared to LEDs so maybe two to three bulbs max on a single 2n3055. 

Another thought is starting them with a third winding on the secondary and switching over to a lower setting once they are warm.  If you watch my vids on the LJL, you will see that I wind three layers of secondary on the form.  Also, (and this is different) for CFLs, I would run two parallel wires for the primary.  You will have in effect fewer primary turns, but less resistance too.  On the high setting you will quickly warm the bulbs and then you can disconnect the third layer of secondary.  Its tough to perfectly design these LJLs for both LEDs and CFLs.  That's why I use taps on the three layers of secondary.

So, back to this thread.  I hope you can get one of these LEDs to see how simple this Lynx Joule Inverter is.  Its so simple it kind of takes the fun out of it.

Its a strange circuit. I copied it below.

The LNK IC is initially physically connected to the neg of the input caps shown in green circles. B+ cant pass through the diode in the orange circle. So the initial startup B+ for the LNK chip must be via the path of the arrows I drew in, through the inductor and the 100uf cap, via pin D of the LNK

It might not take much more than 12v to fire these things up. The 100uf cap is 16v, so Im assuming that the output to the led bank, through R 9current limiter) at the far right, is around 12V. The led bank is set up to take on the 12v/3 each.

I have not gotten a bulb yet. Have you tried to apply say 24v to the bulb directly? 

Mags

Using 24 volts directly to the bulb you get one bright flash.  24 volts through the transformer you get a nice bright steady light.  Remember, you will see somewhere between 160-1000 hz on the hz meter through the transformer using DC.
The solar panels on the back of my house are tied into a 24 volt battery bank so this is very convenient for me to set up LED lights using this system.  My garage and front yard are lit by the LJL system because the solar panel on that side is 12 volts, and I have a little wind turbine for 12 volts as well.

Quote from: Magluvin on December 01, 2012, 10:26:49 PM
Its a strange circuit. I copied it below.

The LNK IC is initially physically connected to the neg of the input caps shown in green circles. B+ cant pass through the diode in the orange circle. So the initial startup B+ for the LNK chip must be via the path of the arrows I drew in, through the inductor and the 100uf cap, via pin D of the LNK

It might not take much more than 12v to fire these things up. The 100uf cap is 16v, so Im assuming that the output to the led bank, through R 9current limiter) at the far right, is around 12V. The led bank is set up to take on the 12v/3 each.

I have not gotten a bulb yet. Have you tried to apply say 24v to the bulb directly? 

Mags

Magluvin,

I'm not sure what your question is, but you must study the data sheet for the LinkSwitch IC to understand how this circuit works.

The LinkSwitch IC is powered through the Drain pin in the posted circuit because it is a low side switch. At each switch on, the IC
is powered by the charge stored in the 100nF capacitor. So the initial energy to power the IC goes from the positive rail through
the LEDS, through the R (and the internal LED in the EL817), through the 1mH coil and to the drain pin. The internal (in the IC) voltage
regulator has an output pin where the 100nF is connected to give the IC energy when the drain to source is conducting current,
thus the input voltage is removed from the drain pin, so that the IC is running until it switches is off again. The LinkSwitch IC is a very
versatile IC that can be used in many configurations. One useful configuration is a a power supply for low voltage, eg. 12 Volt,
from a very high input AC voltage, eg. mains.

Tests I have done with my 230VAC OSRAM 3 Watt LED lamp shows me that my lamp starts to light dimly at approx. 31 Volt DC input.

GL.

Thanks GL. Makes sense. ;)

Didnt think of the + coming from or through the load.

Mags

And it looks like the LEDs are actually "running" off of the charge that is pumped into the 100uF cap on the right, dribbled out to them in pulses by the chip?

Quote from: TinselKoala on December 02, 2012, 05:56:08 PM
And it looks like the LEDs are actually "running" off of the charge that is pumped into the 100uF cap on the right, dribbled out to them in pulses by the chip?

Yes and  the 100uF cap is charged up from the collapsing field of the 1mH coil via the diode UF4005.  Pin 5, the open Drain of the chip is at negative ground when the inner MOSFET switch is ON, this pumps energy into the 1mH and when the switch is OFF the the cap can receive the collapsed juice.

    Lynxsteam:
   I do have some Led bulbs (110v) and have combined them with also lighting the Cfls, or the  round Halo bulbs as well as other types of flourescents, and even the 60 watt incandescents.

  The led bulbs, as well as the ungutted Cfls, can easily burn out their internal circuit if the Ringer's secondary coil output is TOO HIGH. 
  Still looking for the perfect circuit to fully light the Cfls to full brightness, or close to it, without burning out the transistors.

   Your cross over circuit video was very interesting.  I'm still working on that one. Fourth day now, and the led indicator is still lit, on 1/4 to 1/2 volt, and about 300 mAs. If the on/off switch is turned off, the voltage climbs back the the starting voltage of  1.150 volts.  I'm still tuning it with different caps, etz... Once I get the best results, I'll change back to the 12v solar input, and a 12v battery as a source.
  I ran the cross over circuit off my solar panels today, but the 1.5v input battery and cap remained at 1/2 volt, and did not charge up,  while lighting the circuits's indicator led.
For some reason the addition of solar panel's input did not change or charge up the 1.5v D cell  battery or cap voltage. Even though the solar input source was 36 volts.

  Here are a few pics of one of my versions of the Ringer 3.0 on a 3 coil ferrite yoke, (with two secondary coils), that can be used together in series, or apart, as a second output source.
   

I abandoned my work with the crossover after for no apparent reason burning up two 2N2222.  No change, they just decided to fry.  I didn't see anything at all magnificent with that circuit.  I will leave that one to others to explore.  My main interest is practical lighting with few parts, reliable, and simple.  That is the reason for this thread.  To show people how easy and practical it is to run 120 v LED non-dimmable bulbs from 12-24 volts at low ma draw.  I am sure people will find interesting uses for the secondary.

Nick, you will find the right combination of parts to light your CFLs.  I know I had my best luck with the 3.0 version (collector connection) of the LJL, 15:1 ratio and heavy gauge well insulated primary.  You should be able to safely run 5 amps through the 2N3055 at 12 volts.  I prefer keeping amps below 3.  That means you are restricted to about two CFLs per transistor.  You can parallel the 2N3055 if you link the bases with a 1 Ohm resistor.  I have a large aircore with this setup and it will power a lot of lights.  Each 2N3055 is good for 60 watts.

Back to the Lynx Joule Inverter circuit, I tried many transformers and coils to light these bulbs another way.  One larger RadioShack transformer will run these just off the primary.  The others wont do.  A slide switch is best for on off to help the circuit start up.  If you just get a blinking bulb, strike the connection to get it to light or just leave it and it will fire up in a second or two.  Each bulb is a little different.

    Lynx:
    In order to get back on the program...  To make your Inverter system, using my ferrite core transformer (below).
    In order to use this ferrite yoke (below), which now also has a 20 turn primary of about 14 gauge  insulated wire wound on top of one of the two secondary coils:
I would connect one end of the primary coil to battery +, and the other end of the primary coil goes to one end of the secondary coils, then continue to connect it the second secondary coil. Then, the end of the second secondary coil goes to the bulb, and after the bulb it goes back to the battery - negative terminal.
  Correct???
                       NickZ

   

First, I wouldn't waste a nice Torroid on this simple circuit.  But for just playing around and experimenting its fine.  On page two of this thread there are two schematics.  You can pick either.  You have picked one correctly.  My favorite is having the bulb between primary and secondary.

You can also just try the primary only, or secondary only.  Some transformers will work this way, some wont.  Steel laminate cores work well.  Ferrite cores are brighter and consume more power.  Keep in mind this will only work on bulbs marked non-dimmable.  You wont hurt anything in a dimmable bulb, it just wont work.  You wont hurt the transformer because the bulbs don't pull that much power.  I suppose if you shorted out the secondary for awhile that wouldn't be good.  If you see a big spark and no light you probably have shorted your transformer.  Momentarily no big deal.
I would look around and see if in your parts bin you might have a transformer. 
Once you get how easy this is, start looking for a nice balance between brightness and low ma draw. 

This circuit is voltage linear.  The higher the voltage the higher the amp draw the higher the brightness.  So if you want to, you can try a pot that can handle 5 watts and see how you can dim this non-dimmable bulb.  You can turn it down to candle light or up as far as the transformer will allow.

Got the draw down to 8 ma on a 12 volt battery using the off the shelf RadioShack 450 ma transformer.  I will try a variable resistor this evening to see "how low we can go"

Lynxsteam:
Checked online and my local Home Depot has 2 of the Phillips 3w non dimmable LED's.  Will pick those up this evening.  I did try FEIT and LG bulbs and they did not work.  I have the 450ma transformer you mentioned plus several others I can try.  On post number #4 you show 2 circuits, do you have a preference for the right or left circuit.  I will try both for comparison.  Thanks for the cool discovery, I will let you know if I can get it to work.  Thanks again,
Brad S

Nice to see your post Brad,

Here is a video showing what you can do with a 5k potentiometer.  These non dimming bulbs can be dimmed right down to nothing.  2 ma and there is still a visible light.  5 ma is like a small candle.  Running on 24 volts pushes these bulbs nicely.

I don't know what typical solar lights pull but I bet its more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u5yL4F-_T0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u5yL4F-_T0)

I don't know if people are pulling my leg asking for a schematic but here it is :)

@Lynxsteam;
:-[  I need help, I know your circuit looks as simple as it get but, I have not been able to get the bulb to light.  I am using the RS transformer and Phillips 3w fan bulb (non-dimmable).  I have introduced 15vdc on the input and read 32vac on the bulb end.  Pushing 30vdc I get about 65vac on the bulb and still does not light.  Is it possible Phillips may have changed internal circutry on this bulb?  Any suggestions?
Brad S

Hmmm, no idea.  If the bulbs are this hard to find then this is a bad idea. 

If you hook the bulb up to straight twelve volt, does it flash or blink at about 1x second or so.  That's what mine do on straight 12 vdc.  Once you hook up through a transformer the light is nice and you can dim with a pot.  What is the code on the bulb's base?

I did some more testing.  Rather than see how low I could go with amps, I was looking at how bright I could go.

At 12 volt the bulb runs at .6 watts
24 volts the  bulb runs at 2.8 watts and as bright as mains power
30 volts at 4.2 watts (over bulb rating)

Different transformers will run at different rates.  This was using my best transformer which is another subject.  It is a snap on choke wound with 200 turns 30 awg and 20 turns 26 awg.  Hz varies from 160 - 800
Placing one or two magnets anywhere around the transformer causes amp draw to go up with no apparent brightness increase.  Hz goes down with magnets on the transformer.  You can hear the frequency decrease as you draw a magnet near the transformer core.

Here is an example of a LED bulb at Home Depot for $14.97.  This one will work nicely.  It is non-dimmable.  I am using this one.  I am also attaching another schematic of how to wire it up.  Its the same as I have posted but maybe explains it another way.  I think the significance is the low amp draw you can obtain using this method.  No ringing, multiple bulbs, easy start, no heat.  Can exceed rated brightness or be turned down to a candle light.  You can run this off a capacitor, direct dc from solar, or battery.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=203670037&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=203670037&ci_kw={keyword}&kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-203670037&ci_gpa=pla#.UMIAdLaRPL4 (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=203670037&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=203670037&ci_kw=%7Bkeyword%7D&kwd=%7Bkeyword%7D&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-203670037&ci_gpa=pla#.UMIAdLaRPL4)

Here's another thing I want to share.  With the larger transformers (450 ma and up) you can run the LEDs from the yellow leads only.  Use a variable resistor to adjust amount of light.  Rectify the other transformer outputs to higher voltage DC (these are the heavier black leads).  I ran my 35v 4700uf capacitor right up to 35 volts.  Its not going to self run, but you might find the voltage boost useful for charging 1.5-12 volt batteries or you can run some other circuit needing AC or DC.  This set of windings is completely separate from the running circuit.
This is the funnest, simplest and most useful circuit I have played with since the Aircore Joule Ringer.

 ;D  Woo Hoo ~ Funny how things work when you get the right parts.  Picked up the last 2 bulbs from my local Walmart today (GE bulb Lynxsteam posted above) and it works like a charm.  Only tried one of the circuits posted and fired right off.  Uses about 13 to 14 ma on the transformer I started with.  Will conduct measurements with other transformers I have on hand and the various circuits to try and get the best light at least current possible.

Also, on a whim, I picked up a 2 pack of LED Super Bright Night Light replacement bulbs by Meridian and they work as well.  Rated at 0.6w and draw 150 micro amps with the same setup listed above.  This bulb works in parallel with the GE bulb or alone.  The bulb is not bright at that current, but it does light up.

Going to have some fun playing with this ~ thanks again Lynxsteam.

Brad S

I remember you were the first to replicate the early Joule lamp and you did it better than I did.  I look forward to what you may find out with your experiments.

Its too bad these bulbs are so uncommon and so expensive.  However, they are a very neat way for me to convert the wind energy from my Turbines to useable power.  A small solar panel and small wind turbine would more than power 6 of these 24/7.  My small 24" wind turbine puts out up to 2 amps, and in average 8-10 mph winds 100-200 ma

The output from the unused secondary is high voltage up to 67 volts rectified DC, but very little in amps.  I was charging a 9 volt battery and seeing 4 ma.  That's OK.
Still I think for the price of a small ready made transformer this is a very efficient way to light LED bulbs.  I'd be curious how this compares to just buying 12 volt LED bulbs.  I bet Lidmotor knows the answer to that.

Hi Guys,

I just play with my homemade LED Bulb 220VAC 3Watt (I bought driver & HPL Led and I assemble on the E-27 Fittint) today. It consist of 3 LED Driver & 3 High Power Led. I try Lynx schematic using standart transformer and it work. Then I try directly connect my LED to various DC voltage and it work great. Here couple of my pict. When I directly connect to grid it draw 18 mA, when connect to DC 12 V it draw 8.1 mA, connect to 24VDC it draw 29.1 mA and connect to 36VDC it draw 35.3 mA.

Keep experiments
Djoko

Here's a video showing the two 3 watt bulbs running off the yellow of the transformer at 12 volts and .36 -.5 watts each.  The two heavier black leads are run to a full wave bridge rectifier and to the volt meter showing anywhere from 30 -70 vdc depending on the voltage and brightness of the bulbs.  The output from the bridge rectifier will trickle charge batteries.  Charging batteries doesn't seem to affect bulb brightness. Its not free energy but it is a very simple and efficient circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkhgzANMJaA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkhgzANMJaA)

@Lynxstream,

                 Is the battery gaining?   

Quote from: Lynxsteam on December 09, 2012, 01:22:40 PM
Here's a video showing the two 3 watt bulbs running off the yellow of the transformer at 12 volts and .36 -.5 watts each.  The two heavier black leads are run to a full wave bridge rectifier and to the volt meter showing anywhere from 30 -70 vdc depending on the voltage and brightness of the bulbs.  The output from the bridge rectifier will trickle charge batteries.  Charging batteries doesn't seem to affect bulb brightness. Its not free energy but it is a very simple and efficient circuit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkhgzANMJaA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkhgzANMJaA)

hI
hAVE YOU TRIED WITH AT LEAST 10 220 V AC LED LAMPS  then its a winner if we can use less amps   for solar lighting     thanks
totoalas

Hi

Here the video of my LED Bulb running on 12 ~ 36 VDC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZfwjtEgXsk

Quote from: synchro1 on December 09, 2012, 04:40:36 PM
@Lynxstream,

                 Is the battery gaining?

No, wouldn't that be great if it did!  The significance for me with this circuit is how simple it is and how well suited it is for 12 or 24 volt power which is what I am dealing with.  I build wind turbines that charge 12-24 volt batteries.  Trying to run lights off a typical inverter or even straight 12 volts is an amp killer.  None of this matters when a Kw costs 20 cents.  But it does matter to people that don't have what we have.

What I see is anywhere from 5-80 ma to power these 3 watt bulbs at varying brightness. 

There is still more to learn from this circuit.  It seems that high frequency is a help in fooling LEDs into thinking they are getting rated power when it may be much less as measured by volts and amps.  60  or 50 hz has to do with how power plants were devised over a hundred years ago.  Exploring other frequencies is a very interesting endeavor.  The results in the lightbox with the Lynx Joule Lamp showed very high efficacy at high frequency.

I am hoping we can get to the point where we do a side by side test to see what circuit is most efficient lumens/watt.  Joule Ringer, Aircore, CrossOver, Joule Inverter.  They all operate at high frequency, converting DC into chopped pulses of power.

Quote from: Lynxsteam on December 05, 2012, 05:47:03 PM
Hmmm, no idea.  If the bulbs are this hard to find then this is a bad idea. 

If you hook the bulb up to straight twelve volt, does it flash or blink at about 1x second or so.  That's what mine do on straight 12 vdc.  Once you hook up through a transformer the light is nice and you can dim with a pot.  What is the code on the bulb's base?

That's what mine did also on straight 12vdc.  just a very low light blink.  I tried this with the various configurations you show with the transformer and it does surprisingly well with a 2.8 watt LED bulb.  I think the brightest was from the crossover setup(one side of primary shorted to one side of secondary).  I got light with a current draw of 6 ma, 12 ma and 17 ma depending on how I had them hooked up (12 Nicad drill pack).  The brightest was the crossover and was only drawing 12ma.   Neat circuit but it didn't work with another 120 volt LED bulb so it can be picky. 

Brad,  I'm sure based on the above that it's very dependent on the circuitry in the 120 volt LED bulb.  I think the bulb that worked for me was a Philips from Walmart. 

Wow....   Here's another one I like.  I just hooked the bulb in series with the battery and the secondary (higher winds) of the transformer.  Primary not hooked up to anything.  The bulb lights but is dim.  Then I short out the primary and it gets brighter.  But here's the Wow part .... take the short off the primary and it stays bright - actually it gets just a little bit brighter when I remove the short - and as I mention below is actually drawing less current while brighter.   Cool! 

Also checked the current on this setup.  When I short the primary the current draw on the battery is 16ma but when I take off the short it's 11 ma with NO change in brightness at all.   OOPs I was wrong after taking a closer look again it actually gets BRIGHTER !! when I remove the short and is using LESS current !!!     This part will be just the opposite depending on battery polarity.  If your bulb gets dimmer doing this reverse the battery polarity. 

Quote from: Djoko on December 09, 2012, 07:48:45 PM
Hi

Here the video of my LED Bulb running on 12 ~ 36 VDC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZfwjtEgXsk

Just to share,

Here picture of my homemade LED used in the above video. I think it is not a dimmable one.

Cheers

Quote from: e2matrix on December 10, 2012, 07:29:25 PM
Wow....   Here's another one I like.  I just hooked the bulb in series with the battery and the secondary (higher winds) of the transformer.  Primary not hooked up to anything.  The bulb lights but is dim.  Then I short out the primary and it gets brighter.  But here's the Wow part .... take the short off the primary and it stays bright - actually it gets just a little bit brighter when I remove the short - and as I mention below is actually drawing less current while brighter.   Cool! 

Also checked the current on this setup.  When I short the primary the current draw on the battery is 16ma but when I take off the short it's 11 ma with NO change in brightness at all.   OOPs I was wrong after taking a closer look again it actually gets BRIGHTER !! when I remove the short and is using LESS current !!!     This part will be just the opposite depending on battery polarity.  If your bulb gets dimmer doing this reverse the battery polarity.

That's a neat trick.  Works well for me too.  I have noticed that sometimes the Hz will vary.  Sometimes I'll hook up and the AC off the other side will be twice as high.  I think at higher frequency the spikes go higher.  I have been experimenting to try and get the Hz up.  Any ideas?  I can almost light a standard dimmable LED off the isolated transformer winding.  I think if the windings were 20:1 instead of 10:1 I could get it lit.  Why?  Why not?

Quote from: Djoko on December 10, 2012, 07:58:42 PM
Just to share,

Here picture of my homemade LED used in the above video. I think it is not a dimmable one.

Cheers

Djoko, very impressive video.  Did you make that little LED driver?  Is it a transformer and a capacitor?  Do you think there is any advantage to lighting LEDs this way as opposed to just running off mains grid power?

A few more interesting results.  I tried with a couple other transformers and got no light in any configuration.  One was a toroidal power transformer.  Then tried with a NST Franceformer brand - it is 12 kilovolt - so 100:1 ratio.    It wouldn't work with power across the secondary in series with the bulb so I tried across the primary and it lit up.  with nothing attached to the secondary.  I read 538 volts across the secondary at 178 Hz.   Touching just one wire of the secondary got a biting zap to my finger but I had the transformer sitting on my legs on top of heavy pants.  Apparently that was enough to make a circuit - not painful but enough to know you are feeling a slightly uncomfortable voltage.   So be careful with this depending on what transformer and battery you are using I imagine with moist hands you could be getting close to a dangerous voltage.   Shorting the secondary with that transformer made the light brighter and was probably the brightest I saw in these setups.  I measured current across the secondary after getting that little zap.  It was about 0.59 microamps - list than 1 microamp.  Not much but it bit a little  ;)

Quote from: Lynxsteam on December 10, 2012, 08:19:39 PM
Djoko, very impressive video.  Did you make that little LED driver?  Is it a transformer and a capacitor?  Do you think there is any advantage to lighting LEDs this way as opposed to just running off mains grid power?

Lynx, thank for the kind word. No I don't make it. This driver rated for 65 VAC ~ 265 VAC input. I got it from O/L store here in Indonesia, including the HPL LED Chip. For the emergency only. See, on 220 V x 0.018 mA =  3.96 W and on 36 VDC x 0.035 mA = 1.26 Watt. Actualy, I try your set-up (with various xformer) and it works, the I try other set-up/my set-up with out xformer.

Some more fun ...  I decided that even thought the secondary on the NST was seeing only about 1/2 microamp I might light a bare CFL on it (just the FL bulb part of a CFL without any circuitry).  It works with that 538 volts it lit but fairly dim - but still it was steady with only 0.59 microamps and the LED bulb was essentially the same brightness as a short on the secondary - probably 40 to 50 % of full 120 VAC brightness.   It didn't want to light a CFL with the circuitry though - but when hooked into the circuit the LED still lit up like a short on the secondary. 

Quote from: e2matrix on December 10, 2012, 08:26:19 PM
A few more interesting results.  I tried with a couple other transformers and got no light in any configuration.  One was a toroidal power transformer.  Then tried with a NST Franceformer brand - it is 12 kilovolt - so 100:1 ratio.    It wouldn't work with power across the secondary in series with the bulb so I tried across the primary and it lit up.  with nothing attached to the secondary.  I read 538 volts across the secondary at 178 Hz.   Touching just one wire of the secondary got a biting zap to my finger but I had the transformer sitting on my legs on top of heavy pants.  Apparently that was enough to make a circuit - not painful but enough to know you are feeling a slightly uncomfortable voltage.   So be careful with this depending on what transformer and battery you are using I imagine with moist hands you could be getting close to a dangerous voltage.   Shorting the secondary with that transformer made the light brighter and was probably the brightest I saw in these setups.  I measured current across the secondary after getting that little zap.  It was about 0.59 microamps - list than 1 microamp.  Not much but it bit a little  ;)

Great experimenting and information.  I tried torroids with no luck.  Only my largest aircores will work.  And yet a tiny audio transformer works well.

Please try something for me if you would.  I can almost light a 120 v LED bulb off the isolated winding kicking its pulses out.  It would flash and then fade.  There is very little amperage as you say.  But with high frequency and high voltage off your 100:1 transformer, perhaps.  And if you can light a bulb how does it affect the overall map draw?
Also try rectifying the extra AC output and use a high voltage cap across + and -.  In that way I could light another LED bulb.

Here's something very interesting.  (Prof Jones will like this) I had tried a tiny inductor (smaller than a penny) out of a gutted CFL circuit.  Its the two lead, wound, blue taped inductor.  Didn't work before.  Then I had wound seven turns of 26 awg magnet wire for the crossover circuit.  Anyway, it was laying there, so I tried it with 18 volts.  I had to clip the lead on to the small PC mount.  Didn't light at first, then instant on and Heat!  Not the temperature kind.  Radiant heat that penetrates at around 1/2"-3/4" surrounding the transformer.  The bulb draws 95 ma off this little transformer.  Shorting the primary, the draw is 80ma.  685 hz.
The seven turns works as well, 91 ma with the secondary open.  82 ma with secondary shorted, then no difference, 82 ma.

Quote from: Lynxsteam on December 10, 2012, 09:14:51 PM
Great experimenting and information.  I tried torroids with no luck.  Only my largest aircores will work.  And yet a tiny audio transformer works well.

Please try something for me if you would.  I can almost light a 120 v LED bulb off the isolated winding kicking its pulses out.  It would flash and then fade.  There is very little amperage as you say.  But with high frequency and high voltage off your 100:1 transformer, perhaps.  And if you can light a bulb how does it affect the overall map draw?
Also try rectifying the extra AC output and use a high voltage cap across + and -.  In that way I could light another LED bulb.

Spent much of the evening playing with this circuit (other room from computer) but done for the night now.   I did rectify the 538 volts coming off the HV side and tried feeding it back to the battery.  I tried an Avramenko setup also which was able to rapidly charge a 400 volt cap in about 10 to 15 seconds.   Tried all kinds of things but was afraid to put my one other LED light bulb across that output as it was around 398 volts DC.   And that particular LED bulb would not work in the circuit at all hooked up like I had the good one.   I had grounds hooked up, antenna's and so on.  Off that 12 volt Nicad pack which is probably a bit smaller than the size of a baseball I was at the point where it would take 15 minutes or so to drop .01 volts.   I also tried a fence charger transformer (I assume a fairly high ratio) which worked well only in series with the primary but had a fairly large current draw and was dropping the battery voltage fast.    I may try more tomorrow but things are looking fairly busy the next couple weeks.   Fun circuit and will try more as time allows.  Thanks Lynxsteam for letting us in on this one!

Forgot to mention one other odd thing I tried.  A few days ago I wound a nice 4" ferrite toroid with some very fine Litz wire in a Caduceus style.  So it has just two ends.  I hooked those in series with the battery and LED bulb and it lit up bright.  But it was pulling the battery down fairly quick.   

Since all these circuits we work on are somewhat related to Joule Thiefs in one way or another, I wonder if using LS' and Gadget's idea of diodes across the primary/secondary would be interesting.  My guess is that it clips the time the transformer and transistor can conduct DC, and yet gives off the high voltage spike.

I would also guess most of the JT circuitry is already in this GE 3A15 LED bulb.  So by adding a transformer, diodes, capacitor and power source we may come close to the crossover.  I have run these bulbs off capacitor only, but not for as long as what LS is doing.  But I don't have super caps either.

@Lynxstream,

                  I broke a damaged 120 volt LED open to look inside. Your right, all the same componants we use in our JT'S, tiny transformer, rectifier, capacitors diodes and resistors!

@all:
You guys are way ahead of me, but thought this worth mentioning.  I salvaged a monster laminated steel transformer a while back from a UPS.  This thing is slightly smaller than a bowling ball.  I connected the circuit as shown in Lynxsteam's drawing in post #47.  Not knowing which the center tap was since secondary has black, white, and blue wires ~ connecting one way gives 20 to 25mA at 12v.  Connecting to the other line it uses 45 to 50mA at 12v.  Light quality at higher current draw is obviously better.  When adding a second bulb, the current draw is doubled.  No sacrifice in light quality.  Even at the higher draw the bulbs are not as bright as 120v mains light, but quite nice nevertheless.  I will be trying some other hookup configurations next.

Brad S

Hi synchro,
I found circuit of LED driver complete with the description here :
http://www.powerint.com/sites/default/files/PDFFiles/der304.pdf
May be usefull for all of us .

Rgd
djoko

    My cross over circuit is still lighting the single led bulb that is the indicator light. It's been over 12 days, now. I think that this may be perpetual, but, there is just not that much useable light. Unless you disconnect it, and let the cap charge up the D cell battery up. Then it goes up to original 1.1 volts, and led is bright, for a while.
  No luck yet with the Joule Inverter off of the different transformers, running direct.
I think that my best luck will come from solar panels dirent to 12v bulbs. No losses, and bright light.
  Nick_Z

With lynx set up
12 v dc input to a 30 w 220 to 12 v xfr   690 mA  on a load of 7 meters led strip 12v  very bright
my jr 1 will dimly lit the strip at 200 mA
Direct connection of strip to battery     890 mA  the brightest ....
Some 220 v led lamps does not switch on   with this xfr

totoalas

Look at Stefan's bulb transformer battery circuit below. The circuit in the base of Lynxstream's A.C. LED bulbs must duplicate the function of Stefan's relay. There's a strong chance the LED bulb circuit is generating electricity in the transformer secondary during the demagnetization phase of the charge cycle, just like Stefan's relay does in his shock charging system!

Hi folks, Hi synchro1, have seen that circuit before.
Have you tried it and wonder if that could be used with say a joule thief or similar oscillator with a secondary.
Maybe for starters, try a separate battery to charge, to prevent any damage to transistors and see if the battery likes it or not.
peace love light
tyson :)

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/12438-simple-inverter-4.html#post218457

Quote from: SkyWatcher123 on December 14, 2012, 02:33:56 AM
Hi folks, Hi synchro1, have seen that circuit before.
Have you tried it and wonder if that could be used with say a joule thief or similar oscillator with a secondary.
Maybe for starters, try a separate battery to charge, to prevent any damage to transistors and see if the battery likes it or not.
peace love light
tyson :)

This circuit of jonnydavro's, in his video below, looks similar to the kind of Jt circuit you're talking about. Firstly, jonnydavro's potentiometer adjusted buzzer to transistor base control circuit functions as a cheap and simple PWM. His unique assembly of componants wired where Stefan has his relay would permit us to bring the neon bulb and transformer into peak resonance and maximize output from the demagnetization phase of the charge cycle.

Lynxstream's innovation uses the LED bulb circuit to generate Stefan's kind of "Demag" power and demonstrates his rock bottem amp draw as a consequence. I've built dozens of these kinds of Jt inverter circuits but Lynxstream's is so far the most elegant one that I've seen run up till now. My central point is that Lynxstream's inverter circuit seems to be generating it's own running power from Stefan's kind of "Zaev effect" and has real overunity potential. I think we can marry jonnydavro's buzzer controller to Stefan's transformer, primary in series to secondary, transformer circuit and perhaps even beat Lynxstream's extremely low amp draw, but then again, perhaps not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PNgpWUJGB4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PNgpWUJGB4)

Hi . Very Cool Lynx. Unfortunately those Bulbs are not available at any wallmart ,lowes or home depot withing 50 miles of me :) I looked hlf the morning and there justs is none in eastern NC. In fact i could not find any Ge led bulbs at all and the ones i have ill not flash with 12 volts or work like yours will (   Oh Well . I see they don;t make the three watt anymore either but they are replaced online by a 3 pack of 2.5watt and i have no idea if the same circuit is in them so i will not order them  But Congrats on your Find and that is so Cool ..

Merry Christmas


Gadget

Its too bad the LED bulbs are so expensive.  I understand its not worth the risk to just be fooling around.  Now if they were a buck like CFLs are now, that would be different.  Gadget - I would send one to you for a Christmas Present if you would like.

I love Johnny Davaro's work.  He is quite clever.  I never tried the buzzer but I have no doubt it works well.  Lets try Synchro1's idea with the buzzer and a 2N3055 and transformer and see what we get.  We're kind of back to the JR3.0 but with another part.  It would be nice if this idea worked better for CFLs than the JR3.0.  The crossover circuit looks easy when Laser Saber does it, but I have found it difficult to replicate.

Lynx I want one but not at your expense . Thank you anyways for the kind offer but i am spent out this year(s) But it is one cool way to have light from a panel i'll bet . I also have 8 panels , 4 1 x 4 mounted on a sat dish mount to track the sun ( old curizo plant panels) they still put out 9 amps at 26 volts and i also got 4 newer Giant 4 x 2 panels . they put out 63 volts @ 50 watts  each  and charge some Airplane batterys . also have a windblue charging an 1100 pound forklift battery with gridtie and trace inverter. I love Them and the extra power they produce makes the light bill a 1/4of anyones bill out here .I am glad we all stride to make light from nothing ;)

just because i can't get them please keep experimenting with different transformers with other secondaries . I am very curious as to how much you can get off those .

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Ive replicated Lynx RF diode charger by using ac neutral  as antenna  and it works   
AC Neutral RF Charger 231212   Youtube  Imtotob
thanks to Lynx
totoalas :)

Here's the link from Totoala's new video from above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWbSTim5n0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWbSTim5n0I)

As I've pointed out in the past, output is directly proportional to antenna size. This innovation is a million times more powwrfull then a single strand of magnet wire streched 100 yards through the trees as an antenna.

Great.  Are you using AC neutral as in the neutral wire of your house grid?  Isn't Neutral usually also grounded?  So is the idea to use the power company's Nuetral as your antenna or ground?  Are you collecting RF energy or AC inductance?  Is there any chance that live 120 vac is going to hit this circuit?

Here's the link to Joe Tate's Ambient Power Module:

http://www.rexresearch.com/tate/tate.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/tate/tate.htm)

What we're looking at here ladies and gentelmen is the key to limitless and abundant free energy for all. It's time to pop the corks. Hallelujah! Totoalas is using his body as a ground, but every outlet should have an Earth Ground and an A.C. neutral line that turns miles of overhead light lines into an an enormous radio frequency recieving antenna. There's no limit to the amount of power we can draw with Joe Tate's power module between those two wires. All that's needed is a battery to act as a voltage regulator. The APM won't charge lead acid batteries because the leakage is to high; However, 14 rechargeable nine volt Ni-Cad batteries in series will light 120 volt LEDS just wired directly to the two wires from the LED'S to base circuit. One can draw limitless power this way simply by adding power modules between the Earth Ground and the A.C. neutral line. The potential is limitless and non-exhaustive. The danger's exploding the batteries with insuffcient output, something I discovered the hard way.

A gift for the dawn of the Age of Aquarius from Totoalas! Blessings to everyone. I'm overjoyed. Thanks Totoalas, you're the best pal!

Hi synchro
thanks for the link
Hi Lynx
Im using House AC neutral  line....     with Neutral and Earth ground   I can lit up a 5 watt led 220 v ac lamp ( Neuground Lighting)
With your rf diode charger  ...  no need for earth ground   but charging very fast with my hands on the output ( short) and the reading goes to 100 v dc in aorund 40 seconds.....
The Neutral from the electric company as I know is also earthed   and the earth in our house closes the loop ( from my understanding)   
I prefer Neutral when shorted with body ground easily charges the caps but in a pulse mode and discharge  for a split second to my 12 v dc  strip leds   7 meters in lenghth
As live and Neutral are side by side the possiblity is a short circuit which will trip the house circuit breaker
totoalas

The A.C. neutral line runs from the house back to the power plant where it runs into the ground to complete the circuit. The Earth Ground can simply be a pipe in the ground. Output from the Ambient Power Module is directly proportional to the antenna size!

          "The amount of voltage and power will be determined by local radio noise levels and ANTENNA DIMENSIONS".

The antenna size of the A.C. neutral line is lazy eight! You have to step back and consider how awesome this breakthrough is!

An APM between the A.C. neutral ground and the Earth Ground at the power plant would recieve and rectify the same RF signal that just passes right through the wire as a full sine wave in the sub MHZ range. This power is not induced A.C. There's zero power comming from the A.C. neutral line. Most of the broadcast energy picked up by these wires comes from Outer Space, not the local radio broadcast stations. These wires would generate around the same amount of power if we shut the powerplant down and stopped the radio broadcasts. The reason the power increases at night is because the Sun's not blocking Cosmic Radiation in the RF range from the Galaxy!

Quote from: synchro1 on December 23, 2012, 07:33:08 PM
The A.C. neutral line runs from the house back to the power plant. The Earth Ground can simply be a pipe in the ground. Output from the Ambient Power Module is directly proportioal to antenna size! The antenna size of the A.C. neutral line is lazy eight! You have to step back and consider how awesome this breakthrough is!

Thanks for the technical description  .. Yes  youre correct   I im touching the ground output and not short the circuit as I described before...
Now  Tech gurus    its your turn.......   
totoalas

Quote from: totoalas on December 23, 2012, 05:07:27 PM
Ive replicated Lynx RF diode charger by using ac neutral  as antenna  and it works   
AC Neutral RF Charger 231212   Youtube  Imtotob
thanks to Lynx
totoalas :)

Hi Totoalas and Synchro,
I kind of missed something here in the translation -- so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Can you tell me what the "Lynx RF diode charger " is ?
Is it that Tate circuit modified some how?
Sorry for the confusion.-----Regards, Paul

Hi
Yed its the same tate ckt

Quote from: totoalas on December 24, 2012, 04:20:55 AM
Hi
Yed its the same tate ckt

Hi Totoalas,
Thanx. for the quick reply--Paul

@ Totoalas,

               Can you place a multimeter between the antenna attached to the A.C. neutral and the ground to see what the D.C. voltage reads from the APM?

The meter reads 210 v dc max in the 500 v dv scale without load
With 3w 220v ac led load the lamp is dimly lit with 106 v resding at the same time
With 4th generation 3w led lamp it fladhed and and the v reading  goes up after discharge
With or without the circuit dame effect with the lamps
Neutral as antenna and ground connevted to earth

Excuse my stupid question about circuit from LED lamp , posted on page 2. On input just before diode bridge there is 15R 3W resistor. Isn't that interesting ? Bulb is rated as 3W output and here we have current limiting resistor I suppose , also rate at 3W ?


I wonder if anybody ever thought about replacing this resistor wit the same one on long wires and measure carefully the heat radiated from it during led operation ?

@Totoalas,

              Wow! That's so fantastic! My sailboat APM generated only around 1.5 volts D.C. with the 22 foot aluminum mast antenna and the iron keel ground. 210 volts is plenty to charge a 120 volt battery regulator.

               I think it would help to marry a Lynx Joule Inverter 220 volt 1:1  transformer to the APM to run the 3 watt 120 volt A.C. LED. I believe we can run the entire economy off this system. Awesome!

With wire from 2 10w solar paneld in series  the meter reads 80 v dc without load wire is 10 meters telephone wire

Quote from: totoalas on December 24, 2012, 10:25:30 AM
With wire from 2 10w solar paneld in series  the meter reads 80 v dc without load wire is 10 meters telephone wire

The flash rate is 3 sec for the 3 watt lamp 
A jt also can be used for pulse or trickle charging

Having wired a couple houses completely to code myself I would say something doesn't sound quite right here.  Your neutral is tied to ground at multiple points in a typical American house.  At the meter, the electric panel all the grounds are tied to the neutral as well as at the receptacles.  If totoalas is in America I somewhat suspect his house is not wired normally.  However I may be misunderstanding something here.  While I suppose the neutral wiring could be somewhat of an antenna it is a directly grounded antenna.   That brings up another interesting concept I came across some time ago where the Earth ground can be used as an antenna in certain ways.   So I'm not sure and haven't thoroughly caught up on the last couple pages but I did want to mention that I know a properly wired home in America has neutral completely tied to ground at multiple points.  However older homes built before around 1965 may not be wired this way so you may indeed have an ungrounded big neutral antenna. 

Hi
here in Macau China , we have rcd breakers in our house set at 30ma to trip the breakers..... so the Neutral  has zero ac  voltage  in reference to ground ( pipe in the bath tub)
With the rf diode charger   -   the dc rectified voltage in a pulsing mode can be measured which can also light a 3 watt 220 v ac led lamp @ 40 % brightness... 
.   in the Philippines   before we have 220 v ac lines
one line  110 v ac     and we used the earth for ironing purposes but the setback  somebody in the bathroom is always sreaming beacuse of this set up...   lol
Now , its only live and neutral   --  mostly no earth wire beacuse of expensive wires......

@e2matrix,

              Aluminum street lamps are bolted to the ground and rise a hundred feet into the air and make excellent power recieving antennas. Every roof antenna has a ground to protect it against lightening strike. The length and dimension of the wire is the important factor. Wether or not it's grounded on one end dosen't effect the antenna to circuit ground in between where the circuit's positioned. Bury the entire wire and it will no longer act as a recieving antenna. Any amount of wire strung overhead acts as an antenna regardless of any base ground. RF frequency power has no way to run through the antenna wire into the ground, as it just passes right through.

I believe that depends on what frequencies you are trying to receive.  Grounded antennae are generally only grounding the mast holding them and not the central receiving element or wire.   At least that's the way I've understood it as a Ham radio operator for many decades.  If you ground your receiving element or wire you loose a lot of receptivity.  And you would be shorting out your transmitter or at least creating a terrible standing wave ratio.  By grounding an antenna you are directing most of the power received to go into the Earth ground where I believe it would be dissipated and be mostly useless.   However I suppose if you inductively couple to it on the way to ground you may capture some of the power.

@e2matrix,

             1 Mhz range radio frequency full sine wave power can't travel along a wire. Ohm's law proves zero wire resistance at that frequency. That RF power just passes right through everything. This is the frequency Joe Tate's germanium diode rectifier is tuned for.

              Multiple recieving tuner coil interference from grounding can be a problem in a highly sensitive short wave radio, but that has nothing to do with power leaking into the ground. The old roof top T.V. antennas produced static in the CRT'S when not properly grounded. Joe Tate's circuit is a rectifier, not a group of sensitive coupled signal tuner coils like you had in your Ham Radio recievers.

             
              "Neutral wires are usually connected at a neutral bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busbar) within panelboards or switchboards, and are "bonded" to earth ground at either the electrical service entrance, or at transformers within the system".

              The transformer is two blocks from my apartment. The common ground at the transformer is tied into a web of neutral lines that connects to the entire grid. Some may ground at the electrical service entrance. I imagine APM neutral line voltage may vary from house to house depending on the amount of overhead wire between the outlet and earth ground.
             

Totoalas has shown us how our household wiring acts as a huge radio recieving antenna. Turn off all the main breakers at the service entrance and try and use the power wires for the Ambient Power Module antenna alone, or better yet; Join all the wires together by connecting the power wires and the neutral lines to one another at the outlets to double the antenna dimension. We may never have to turn those breakers back on ever again! Lo and behold!

Dr. Nakamatsu, the famous inventor from Japan, runs a demonstration house in Tokyo, reportedly off Cosmic Rays. His patent was denied for lack of content. Visitors to his demonstration house report finding nothing except a water heater size capacitor alongside the house filled with family size pizza pan conductor plates.

"Dr. Nakamat's free electricity system is so effective that soon after expending boat loads of electric power for the demands of his home, the system still produces electrical energy to become sold to the Tokyo Electrical Power Company"!

Here's a cool video tour of his house. He has a special collector wall. Perhaps he never thought of harnessing Cosmic Ray power from household wires?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/real_cities/8224865.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/real_cities/8224865.stm)

Ps check ac neutral rf charger load 2471212  yt imtotob    cannot access my desktop pc   
Load comparison

Here's Totoala's new video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E5mAkqwnRw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E5mAkqwnRw)

Quote from: totoalas on December 27, 2012, 04:14:27 AM
Ps check ac neutral rf charger load 2471212  yt imtotob    cannot access my desktop pc   
Load comparison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E5mAkqwnRw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E5mAkqwnRw)

"The Ambient Power Module (APM) is a simple electronic circuit which, when connected to antenna and earth ground, will deliver low voltage up to several milliwatts".

"Generally a long wire antenna about 100' long and elevated in a horizontal position about 30' above ground works best. A longer antenna may be required in some locations".

The power from the APM with a single wire antenna is .002 watts compared to the 3 plus watts off the A.C. neutral line. That's thousands of times more power with the same APM! This simple discovery by Totoalas is quantum leap!

Even more amazing is the increased bulb brightness Totoalas gets just between the A.C. neutral line and the earth ground alone, without the APM! Apparently, the 220 volt LED bulb circuit is doing a better job at collecting and rectifying the energy then Joe Tate's Ambient Power Module. How utterly stupendous and flabbergasting a breakthrough discovery!

I believe now that the power is "BROADCAST FREQUENCY GROUND RESONANCE" between the grounds. There's even a stronger likelyhood that both the ground resonance and RF reciever operating theories are correct. Nicola Tesla recieved the first broadcast signal from Outerspace, patented the first ground antenna ambient power generator, set the powerline Hertz, and our electric wire gauge. There're possibly 3 or 4 sources reinforcing resonance. All these factors, born from the genius of one mind, may be at work powering these bulbs. One from the ground, another from Outerspace and third and fourth from the common denominator power line dimension and frequency.

With these theories in view, the question now is; How many 220 volt LED bulbs can we light in parallel between the A.C. neutral line and the earth ground? Some bulbs work better in parallel then others, and some other brands won't work wired together in series or parallel. There's one "Lights of America" bulb that seems to work very well both ways. Regardless, I think Totoalas may have just turned us all into Sheiks! Many thanks again to Totoalas for his awesome discovery.

Thanks  synchro and the link to dr. Nakamats

Cheers

Totoalas

@e2matrix,


An electrical connection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_connection) to earth can be used as a reference potential for radio frequency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequency) signals for certain kinds of antennas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopole_antenna). The part directly in contact with the earth - the "earth electrode" - can be as simple as a metal rod or stake driven into the earth, or a connection to buried metal water piping (though this carries the risk of the water pipe being later replaced with plastic). Because high frequency signals can flow to earth through capacitance, capacitance to ground is an important factor in effectiveness of signal grounds. Because of this a complex system of buried rods and wires can be effective. An ideal signal ground maintains zero voltage regardless of how much electric current (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_current) flows into ground or out of ground. The resistance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistance) at the signal frequency of the electrode-to-earth connection determines its quality, and that quality is improved by increasing the surface area of the electrode in contact with the earth, increasing the depth to which it is driven, using several connected ground rods, increasing the moisture of the soil, improving the conductive mineral content of the soil, and increasing the land area covered by the ground system

Totoalas, what do you measure between Neutral and Earth (with your DMM) no lamp or circuit connected?

Is your earth from the mains socket or an outside connection?

Does this only work with the circuit or "special" lamps?

I just measured between my earth and neutral connections on a UK socket and got nadda as expected.
(I would have been very worried to have read any voltage.)

Hi
I used nomal dmm on the dc output of thecircuit
With ac neutral and earth  pipe in the faucet as ground measured zero on the ac voltage scale
If the neutral and earth get in contact the rcd breaker trips

An 8w fl tube will flash and a 3 w led lamp as well

@Lakes,

         Totoalas is measuring the D.C. voltage output from the APM. The APM is using the A.C neutral line for an antenna, and the buried water pipe for the earth ground. The A.C. neutral line is bonded to a seperate earth ground as described above in the earth ground antenna exerpt from Wikipedia.

          Totoalas then has a socket wired in between these two lines in parallel with the APM into which he screws LED bulbs, and another socket wired to the D.C. output of the APM. He measures the D.C. output voltage from the APM with the bulbs in one then the other socket. There's no electrical power in the wires. The wires are bonded; One to a metel faucet  buried pipe earth ground, and the other to an earth grounded A.C. neutral line. The A.C. neutral line acts as an earth grounded RF recieving antenna. Powerfull Telluric currents from the earth run between these two grounds when the circuit's completed by connection. That's why Totoalas's rcd breaker trips when he joins these two wires. The breaker remains closed when the circuits, along with their isolating circuit resistance, are in position.

           You need to join these wires with an APM circuit in between , or the circuit in the base of a 5 watt 220 volt LED bulb to generate any electrical current. The wires alone will measure nothing!

Using only ac neutral plus earth with 5 w 220 v ac lamp load
Output of lamp placed on top of a 10 w solar panel produced 2.62 v dc steady voltage
This is done without the APM circuit
Totoalas

The Lamps are a bit expensive, but the circuit should be cheap to experiment with.

I have a question to pose to the Overunity Group: How much power would two APM's generate in parallel between Totoalas's A.C. neutral line and his faucet ground? Half each, or double the amount? The results from this simple test could send Richter magnitude shock waves around the Planet!

@e2matrix,

             Totoalas already stated his APM is the same as Joe Tate's. Joe designed and was the first to patent and name it. Lake's is identical too.

Quote from: Lakes on December 28, 2012, 11:50:08 AM
The Lamps are a bit expensive, but the circuit should be cheap to experiment with.

Is the circuit diagram Lakes posted above the same basic diagram and component values you are using totoalas ?   

Quote from: totoalas on December 24, 2012, 04:20:55 AM
Hi
Yed its the same tate ckt

@e2matrix,

             I don't mean to seem impertinent, I'm just trying to help Totoalas because he mentioned he's seperated from his laptop.

Thanks synchor1 - so it is the same ckt Lakes posted above?   Sorry I haven't been following this thread close lately. 

Hi there
I'm in Poland and thought I'd try this out. I have 230 V AC between the neutral and an earth rod stuck in the ground outside. I can light a CFL with this and some LEDs. Haven't experimented much at all with this yet and don't understand what's occuring.
- Is this just dodgy wiring in my flat?  (The reading of 230 V would indicate that it's something like that.)

Am trying not to get too excited by this ...  ::)


Flumen

Is totoalas using these exact diodes or equivalents?

I would think these are only critical components in the circuit.

I have some small signal diodes, but not these type.
(Which are available from ebay anyway.)

Edit: the (APM) circuit I posted is a cleaned up version of the one on the Joe Tate website.

Quote from: Flumen on December 28, 2012, 02:53:32 PM
Hi there
I'm in Poland and thought I'd try this out. I have 230 V AC between the neutral and an earth rod stuck in the ground outside. I can light a CFL with this and some LEDs. Haven't experimented much at all with this yet and don't understand what's occuring.
- Is this just dodgy wiring in my flat?  (The reading of 230 V would indicate that it's something like that.)

Am trying not to get too excited by this ...  ::)


Flumen

You should not read anything directly with just the neutral and earth wiring, I did`nt on my mains wiring.
Mind, I measured directly between the earth and neutral on my Uk mains socket.

Hi Lakes
Yes, I read your earlier comment where you said you'd be worried to find any voltage between the neutral and earth in a mains output receptacle. That's why I'm thinking something's up with the wiring (although, I'm using a rod stuck in the ground outside for an earth).
In Poland, in older flats like mine, they rarely bother with putting in a decent earth (as far as I can tell). And I can see there are only two wires leading up to the receptacle.


@e2matrix (or anyone else) - you have wired up houses - can you please explain what you think might be going on with my wiring? (I have little knowledge on this.)  :-[
Tomorrow, I'll cut all the power to the flat and see what happens ...
(Lynx - apologies if this is leading off topic.)

Regards
Flumen

Hi im using the normal diodes in4148 glass diodes as lynx used in his youtube comment
Same caps the earth from water tap and not from electric company  ground wire
If neutral to
The earth wire  the normal circuit breaker trip without rcd protection
Will try series and parallel apm.....
Ive tested using neutral ac  ... Coil eggmagnet and am radio antenna   one wire free energy variant 4 youtube imtotob  without tate circuit
Hope somebody amplify this like kapanadze or dr nakamats

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsxd0mUODC8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsxd0mUODC8)

I think there's only one kind of germanium diode manufactured for sale, and one kind only. Here's the numbers from Joe Tate's specifications:

                                              "Four 1N34 germanium diodes (Radio shack #276-1123) ~".

These are the same component numbers posted by Lakes.

@Flumen,

            Sounds like maybe very powerfull Telluric earth currents running between the grounds. The voltage will drop to Zero when you turn the breakers off at the service entrance if it's a short circuit. Otherwise, you're sitting on a gold mine!

1n60 is also a germanium diode that can be commonly found, and the NTE near-equivalent is NTE109.

The 1n60 is a bit more robust but has almost the same electrical parameters as the 1n34a. The NTE109 claims a 100 V piv.

You might also consider the Schottky diode 1n5711. Fwd voltage 0.41 V, piv 70 V

Quote from: totoalas on December 28, 2012, 04:34:28 PM
Hi im using the normal diodes in4148 glass diodes as lynx used in his youtube comment
Same caps the earth from water tap and not from electric company  ground wire
If neutral to
The earth wire  the normal circuit breaker trip without rcd protection
Will try series and parallel apm.....
Ive tested using neutral ac  ... Coil eggmagnet and am radio antenna   one wire free energy variant 4 youtube imtotob  without tate circuit
Hope somebody amplify this like kapanadze or dr nakamats

Thanks, these are probably the signal diodes I have, I`ll have a look tomorrow.
I`ll have to work out how to a run a wire from the water pipe... :)

@Tk The1n60 diodes are cheaper from ebay as well.

Quote from: Flumen on December 28, 2012, 03:17:30 PM
Hi Lakes
Yes, I read your earlier comment where you said you'd be worried to find any voltage between the neutral and earth in a mains output receptacle. That's why I'm thinking something's up with the wiring (although, I'm using a rod stuck in the ground outside for an earth).
In Poland, in older flats like mine, they rarely bother with putting in a decent earth (as far as I can tell). And I can see there are only two wires leading up to the receptacle.


@e2matrix (or anyone else) - you have wired up houses - can you please explain what you think might be going on with my wiring? (I have little knowledge on this.)  :-[
Tomorrow, I'll cut all the power to the flat and see what happens ...
(Lynx - apologies if this is leading off topic.)

Regards
Flumen

Hi Flumen,   I'm not at all sure how wiring is done in Poland but I would suspect that either the neutral is ungrounded and just like a second 'hot' wire or it could be possibly wired backwards at the outlet or breaker box etc.  You may want to look at the voltage between the 'Hot' and ground.  If that's a small amount then I would say the hot and neutral are backwards.   If it's also 230 vac then it may be an ungrounded system in your house and both sides are essentially 'hot'.  Lots of possibilities but do be careful with those voltages as I'm sure you know those are not something you want to make a mistake with touching. 

e2matrix and synchro1, thank you for your replies and advice! You were right e2matrix, both lines are hot.
I cut the power to the flat and took measurements - only about 200 mV ac, but a steady 0.56 V dc from the 'neutral' and a little less from the 'live', with the DMM hooked up on one side to my grounding rod wire. Would that be normal? Stray dc voltage? Or a result of a short circuit or something?  :-\  Any more advice/ comments appreciated, but as you say, e2matrix - many possibilities, and I don't want to clutter up this thread.

-edit - Just tested another receptacle, with the mains power to the flat reconnected, and this one seems to be wired ok, although still measuring 0.56 V dc and about 200 mV ac on the neutral line, again with one end of the DMM connected to the earthing rod.
Flumen

Quicks tests with DMM

Mains Socket earth - other croc clip held in my hand 1.4v AC
Socket earth - Cold Water pipe 0v A.C. (as expected, they will be bonded together somewhere)

Socket Neutral - Water Pipe 0.4v A.C.
Neutral - Other croc clip handheld 1v A.C.

modified tate circuit 
removed the nf cap andchanged dc cap to 4700 microfarad 35 v dc all diodes in4007
it can light upa 12v dc led bulb in a flash or light in a second
charge rate 4 minutes from o to 12v in the output


with ac led bulb 3 watts continuosly flashing on theckt

totoalas

with 2 tate ckt in parallel the output is lessened and will only light a bulb in one circuit

maybe the max output from tje ac neutra; and earth is limited to ome circuit only

pulse charging is one way of using the circuit

The mains is delivering AC, right? It's alternating current in a load, produced by alternating voltage from the supply.
What point is the voltage alternating around? In other words, when the AC waveform crosses "zero" and reverses, what is the voltage level of that "zero" value?
Is it the same as the Earth ground voltage?

The neutral (zero crossing point) of the mains network is tied to earth somewhere (at the generator in the power generating station) but this is not necessarily exactly the same "earth potential" as in the place where the outlet socket is mounted (hundreds of kilometres away).

Usually the difference in potential (between "local earth" and neutral) is very small (millivolts).

I once witnessed that the "local earth" was about 100 Volt lower than neutral in a factory where they used megawatts of electricity. The technition on site told me that the heavy current draw pulls the whole 220 Volt and 400 Volt network away from "local earth". But I have forgotten the explanation, I only remember that it happened.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: http://www.ibmatech.com/src/pdf_aktuell/TI001.pdf : this is an explanation of reasons for a potential difference between neutral and "local earth", unfortunately it is in German. The reason is an unequal load in three phase loads (e.g. three phase AC motors).

Quote from: Flumen on December 29, 2012, 02:57:20 AM
e2matrix and synchro1, thank you for your replies and advice! You were right e2matrix, both lines are hot.
I cut the power to the flat and took measurements - only about 200 mV ac, but a steady 0.56 V dc from the 'neutral' and a little less from the 'live', with the DMM hooked up on one side to my grounding rod wire. Would that be normal? Stray dc voltage? Or a result of a short circuit or something?  :-\  Any more advice/ comments appreciated, but as you say, e2matrix - many possibilities, and I don't want to clutter up this thread.

-edit - Just tested another receptacle, with the mains power to the flat reconnected, and this one seems to be wired ok, although still measuring 0.56 V dc and about 200 mV ac on the neutral line, again with one end of the DMM connected to the earthing rod.
Flumen

Yes it looks like someone didn't get things wired up quite right there in some receptacles or maybe someone replaced one later and got it wrong.  Do be aware that can be very dangerous if you happen to have 2 devices plugged in to different outlets which are in proximity to each other.  It is possible with older devices or appliances to have 230 vac between the metal on 2 devices such that if you were touching both you it would be like grabbing directly on to 230 vac - very bad situation.   You may already know that but it's worth mentioning since it appears there are some issues with the house wiring.   
     Also yes I've seen what electricians call 'ghost voltage' well over 50 volts ac but it doesn't have any current (or microamps) to it.  It's common and is probably the antenna effect we are seeking here. 

Thank you e2matrix.