Hello All,
the people from the VisionBlue Energy Team have built a very interesting device lately,
and called it the ball magnet EMDR.
Here are a few videos about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3ZYxhLdqqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3ZYxhLdqqw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3II2Q10t-4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3II2Q10t-4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sesaB3Ev3w4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sesaB3Ev3w4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMiwxJsV7Y0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMiwxJsV7Y0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQAUlbSaneA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQAUlbSaneA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK8hQX7GDDA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK8hQX7GDDA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARm-EFTBlLw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARm-EFTBlLw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd_fZv2Uudw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd_fZv2Uudw)
It's kind of a Bedini-circuit where multiple coils placed over a Plexiglas tube
hold a ball neodymium magnet in place hovering on the magnetic fields and it is driven by the Bedini circuit to get into rotation.
The speeds you can get this way are very exotic and as the RPM increases this device
has huge power output capabilities with only low input power !
Some experimentors claims, that it is has a huge OverUnity factor !
Then there is a third Coil, the generator coil, where you can pull off the output power.
I'm attaching below as Appendix 2 circuit diagrams.
It all started with the Ricardo charger,
this is the first Youtube video linked above.
Unfortunately, there was a serious accident on the evening of 20 June.
The Experimentor R. was experimenting with his about 1 inch thick diameter neodymium ball magnet EMDR .
Suddenly when he reached very high rotation speeds, the ball magnet exploded, probably due to
centrifugal forces and several of the neodym parts have penetrated and ripped through his right hand !!
So please be very careful with rapidly rotating sphere magnets!
If there are high centrifugal forces at play the ball magnets can fall apart and
then the shattered parts fly off like bullets!
But he had probably tried too extreme speeds so far stated from his friends,
beyond the 100.000 revolutions per minute range !
Then, if the ball magnet inside already had a small fracture or an had internal crack due to falling to the ground once ,
then it may be due to the extreme centrifugal forces that such a bad accident can happen... !
These ball magnets are also only produced by pressing together the neodym powder, so they will not withstand too much
centrifugal forces !
R. was already operated 2 times in hospital !
He was luckky to get nothing into his face or the head thank God! , but parts of the magnet stuck 2 cm into the wall of his room !
It was just about 1 inch diameter large neodymium ball magnet , which was torn apart by the centrifugal forces
at these high rotation speeds !
Here are some hints and safety considerations of the VisionBlue Energy Team:
By:
https://visionblueenergy.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/kugel-emdr-vorsichtsmasnahmen-und-tipps/ (https://visionblueenergy.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/kugel-emdr-vorsichtsmasnahmen-und-tipps/)
Ball - EMDR - Precautions and Tips
To our crafters and friends of the free energy scene
Yesterday evening, on 20 June 2013, has caught one of our craft friends while testing his own ball EMDR's.
He underestimated the forces of nature which occur in his tests, if you put an object in high speeds.
As we previously reported, a magnetic ball can be placed in a stable magnetic field and with proper control at high speeds. This can not be done to infinity, because at some point the centrifugal forces are so great that it will destroy the material of the magnet itself.
So far so good, that is clear to all of us. Therefore, please note the following tests for your hints and tips.
Please do not go to the limits of the material. Please always take a calculator at hand and realize by calculating what surface speeds can be reached.
There was already a few weeks ago an accident, which was only shattering a smaller ball magnet and did not hurt much.
At that time a small 6.7 mm Neodym ball magnet was brought (as measured by frequency meter) to about 750.000 rpm from the same hobbyist, R.
Then it shattered. These ball magnets are only protected by the nickel layer...they are produced just by pressing together neodymium powder and electroplating them with a Nickel surface.
It had completely torn the ball magnet apart.
At that time it hit only his thumb, which was not so severe, but this new explosion after his test with the 1 inch ball magnet now ripped his whole right hand apart.
According to his data his room looked "like a slaughterhouse" !!! Blood sticking all over the walls !
Some splitter parts of the magnet bullet ripped through his right hand.
At a distance of 1m the broken pieces still stuck about an inch deep in the wall and the cabinets.
We refrain from posting photos of this accident. It makes no sense when someone is permanently cause damage to such tests.
Blessing in disguise was that there was hit "only" the right hand . Still bad enough.
Just imagine if it would have hit his eyes or head !
Then he would probably have died !
Therefore respect for these centrifugal forces !
There had been also warning voices from us in advance.
But he did continue to try such high speeds unfortunately...
So some tips to help:
How do I calculate the surface speed of the rotating object?
Here demonstrated by the following example of the first shattered sphere, because there exists a secured data report.
Although I have asked this before calculating the net a few weeks ago, but here again, it can not be lost and can be verified in a document.
6.7 mm diameter ball, speed limit before bursting was 750.000 RPM (ie seven hundred and fifty thousand revolutions per minute).
at 750.000 rpm the ball makes 12,500 revolutions per second (12500x60s)
Formula:
Diameter of the sphere 6.7 mm in x Pi (ie 3.1415) = 21.04805 ball Circumference in mm x frequency (frequency meter shows the frequency of oscillations per second, so speed) 12,500 = around 263.100 mm / s: 1000mm (to to get to meters) = 263.1 meters per second (!).
The speed of sound is 333m / s! - That one should keep in mind! Here, then, appear enormous centrifugal forces. (We do not know at the moment whether the end result is still to be divided by 2, and if the meter per second 2 pulses per revolution of measuring magnetic ball or just one. (See below)
Incidentally, we do not measure the speed at a measuring point in the system (because we do not want to measure the switching frequency of the transistor), but detached from the system. This is the following dimensions:
Take any small wound with thin wire coil or choke with ferrite or iron core, maybe you go without the latter, and keep it simple in the vicinity of the rotating magnetic sphere. On one of the connecting wires is now measured with a frequency meter the frequency.
(Multimeter with frequency measurement)
It displays the frequency per second in general.
That translates to 1: 1 (we are still not sure if it should be 1: 2) to the number of revolutions.
The ball describes IMHO in its rotation actually 2 totationshifts from north to south.
It would be good if someone could clarify this , amybe a professional with good measurement equipment, whether one induction pulse happens per revolution or two pulses per revolution.
This is currently not entirely clear to us.
Thanks for your advice so, we look forward to answer to this..
And now to calculate how many meters per seconds the surface speed of the larger sphere is.
Surface speed of the example of a 25mm ball:
25mm x 3.1415 = 78.5375 x (eg) 5.000 r / s = 392.687mm: 1000mm = 392.7 meters per second (!)
This ball can therefore not achieve such rotational speeds (300.000 rpm), because they would almost certainly shattered long before .
At 150.000 RPM it still makes a surface speed of approximately 200meters per second.
Use this calculation to what extent this is that you can factor in centrifugal forces and the material stress is so obviously not reliably verified.
I'm not a material engineer and not a physicist. The centrifugal forces can potentiate the larger the sphere is of course !
So you should have the surface velocity of a rotating body always in your mind, when you play with these generator toys,
so you do not lose the respect of the resultant centrifugal forces. A loose magnet is like a flying bullet !
We have made the experience that plexiglass seems suitable that you can tame a rotating ball magnet in there without much wear on the plexiglass surface or the ball surface .
But when it shatteres and flies out of the tube it is like a dumdum bullet which also has penetrated this material.
If you experiment with such a device you should go wisely to work and be always aware of the consequences.
We are moving in uncharted territory here and it is not entirely ruled out, that one is exposed to great danger.
Therefore, you should consider some precautions and then not take the risk of the research with too high speeds !
What not to do:
Please do not attempt the limits of the material without appropriate protective measures, such as wanting to try out as a bulletproof glass showcase.
If you have no suited laboratory, don´t try it.
The principle of EMDR is said by Prof.Turtur certainly does not required speeds in the extreme area.
He wrote in his instructions that the speed ,though it is expected to be over 50.000, does not mean that one must not exaggerate the final speed. Better stay with much lower speeds and never be and wtach it unprotected by a shield !
It is important for its calculation how to set the inductance of the coil with the capacitance of the capacitors and alternating the rotational speeds of the ball or of the bar magnets of the rotor in relation.
In our view it is not necessary that one must work with large magnetic balls because the effect can be seen almost the same with small ball magnets.
Do not use damaged magnetic balls (which had fallen down on the floor and thus might have internal cracks already, or don´t use those which came into collision with other magnets).
Neodymium magnets are brittle and often explode even if you let magnets fly against each other. !
We ourselves will build a plexiglass box from thick Plexiglas (at least 10-20mm in thickness), which can provide a good shield system and thus can mitigate any accidents occurring.
In our view, the ball magnet EMDR is not unmanageable, so you include some precations and do not act recklessly.
Transistors have reinforcing effects. So if you already enter at the input with huge input power, one must not be surprised at the output of the system, that it can be a uncontrolled effect then, which are aggravated or even potentiate itsself then also.
For example, eddy current field effects, which can act like heating the ball.
Strong currents greatly increase output voltage values ect.
Heating of the ball can very quickly occur under certain circumstances, just within seconds. !
The question then must be asked, if the material can withstand the thermal stresses occurring in the material?
The ball becomes probably heated more than the jacket inside it?
If it comes to cracking the ball, which in turn can lead to the rupture then with increased speed of the ball?
This we assume with great certainty that that happened faster with the larger sphere diameters ,
therefore we always have to make our own experiments on the fact that we must control the temperature
of the ball magnet not getting too hot !
If a coil gets hot, you may have the number of turns dimensioned too small or sent in too much current / voltage to the input.
Measuring and metering of the input power is thus in order.
So, if the ball floats and hoovers in the field quite safe and quiet, it is all probably perfectly balanced.
If it comes in contact or physical stress by rubbing with friction on the plexiglass tube , yopu must be cautious with heat buildup.
The ball normaly does not develop more friction heat, which has never been a problem in our own experiments, because we used quite low speeds and it did not touch much the walls.
The higher the inductance of the coil, the less capacity the capacitor needs to have.
Note also that one can melt metals in magnetic fields with eddy currents !
But this can not be the purpose with our ballmagnet -EMDR that one should thus heat its apartment with it.
What you can accomplish on a small scale can be scaled up on a larger dimension.
The question is, do we need that?
Maybe one day we will come to the point that you can use electronically generated oscillations with a stationary ball in the box and without rotation. For example for charging batteries, yes, but how do we put that into EMDR's - principle ?
It is and remains exciting, so you do not want to tarnish this tension through careless action..
So there is little point in bringing if you want to conduct research on oversized equipment.
It does not matter if I input 10Watts and want to get 200W out , or whether I put 100Watts or 200W input and then want to get 2000 or 4000 Watts out, the result would be the same, only the risk of the latter experiment is much larger than in the first case ! ( As the first case is already OU !)
If you have mastered the small system, you also can later scale up a bigger system.
If it is flying apart because you're impatient, you can quickly loose everything and your health.
So we should not lose the fun of tinkering and research, just because you have exaggerated it. Here, therefore, strongly self-critical examination and analysis of your own work is called for.
Summary
We should not blind us the joy of experimenting and tinkering by recklessly induced accidents. Turns conscience and thought.
The two accidents should not be just a warning, they should remember that you can always pay dues at the beginning of the research but do not necessarily have to pay an unlimited degree. It should not prevent us to do more and learn from them. Errors make us more if we understand the mechanisms (want to) and perhaps it should be an incentive to us that what you are doing to be filled with personal responsibility and great attention. We will not scare each other, teach or abuse went so wrong, but we want to come forward and it would be unthinkable if someone loses his actions in this life or eyesight.
It should be noted that myself the inventor of the "Ricardo charger", which therefore on the connection to the rotating ball in the magnetic field brought us called me and begged that I again specially emphasize that he always warned against it its information or has passed appliances that one may restrict the energy supply and responsible act. He only works with 9V batteries.
We and other groups worked with EMDR with just 12 V batteries. The author of these lines works with a 24V power supply with input restriction to 0.3 A (= 7.2 W maximum).
We all had absolutely no problems so far, although the systems are, indeed partly operated hours per day without that there has been notable wear or overheating of the system.
We are warned repeatedly against each other within the community to tinker and publicate our previous results that one may make these sexperiments please carefully and on their own responsibility and without the unnecessary testing of the boundaries.
You can explore limits, if you want to make sure that, you secures strongly against accidents accordingly if you want to take something on you that way. In any case, the responsibility lies with you yourself. No one takes responsibility for it from you this way.
Please make sure that a large ball may rotate much less per second than a small ball so that it can not burst.
In all experiments, which one takes on rotating parts, you should never lose respect for the physical forces.
Ensure that the ball can not be heated excessively.
So check whether your setup (coil and ball) does not overheat.
Please record all your results and experiments in a diary book so that you can verify and reread all your results much later again... You educate yourself so thoughtful to act if one has to monitor itself.
If anyone get harmrf it is important that you can verify the experimental setup which then can lead to a sometimes devastating results.
It also protects the other hobbyists this way. If you throw it all away in a rage, then also the other hobbyists will not help you with that. They are therefore also at risk even more, cause you can not report the parameters of your experiment !
R. tested in the same experiment , how self-built AC capacitors worked with it and from this arises the question for us now, if this Prof. Tutor EMDR system can continue to turn the ball without further input supply energy ??
Maybe it selfaccelerated too fast too soon this way because of the special selfmade capacitors ?
So you will also need an urgent emergency switchoff. Load resistance, contactor or a fuse (light bulb defined performance) between the condenser unit and installed as emergency brake switchoff solution...
Just a normal switch on the circuit board and in the vicinity of the primary power supply is not sufficient then, in this case
as it could go in acceleration mode too fast !
We continue to see a very big potential in this unit and an accident at least does not prevent me to further research this.
We definitely hope that the recent accident will be a lesson to all of us , but that it represents a big step on the way to our knowledge.
Everything has a deeper meaning, even though it may be very painful for the person concerned at the moment. We sincerely hope that this will happen without permanent damage to him.
No way we're holding ourselves back, especially since extreme experiences are important in research.
A suggestion to all, can anyone verify whether the manufactured magnetic ball beads are always pressed from powder material or are there any iron based ball magnets that are made by melting so they are much harder and can accept more centrifugal forces ?
Is there any other more strong material that can be used for such magnets or other negative properties , which you should be aware of?
Temperature resistance of such magnets ect. Information on this, please send email to info@visionblueenergy.net
or post it here as a reply...
This document is being maintained as of June 21, 2013 and is, of course, can and should be reported and published.
In this sense, we hope and look forward to our successful joint open sourcing of the further test results with the ball magnet EMDR and speedy and successful recovery of our collaborator R.
Klaus Lohfing-Blanke
2.Vors. Vision Blue Energy Association
and in the absence Jens Vogler, 1st Chairman
and Sibille Lohfing, also Executive Vision Blue Energy Association
Hi Stefan,
For a rotating Neodynium Magnet sphere, we need to look at the hoop stresses developed due to rotation and compare them with the mechanical stress (Tensile) that the material can withstand up to failure.
The general formula can be applied:
HoopStress = Density x AngularSpeed Squared x Radius Squared
Get Units correctly. Using SI bellow for consistency:
For a typical Neo Magnet and approximate numbers:
Density=7.5g/cm^3 = 7500Kg/m^3
Tensile Strength=75Newton/mm=75000000Pa (N/m^2) or 75x10^6 Pascal
Also
AngularSpeed in Rad/sec
1 rpm=0.1047rad/sec
Or 1 rps=6.2832 rad/sec
So as an example:
A sphere of 1 cm radius=0.01m
With density of 7500Kg/m^3
Rotating at 100000 rpm
Develops a HoopStress of 7500 x (100000x0.1047)^2 x 0.01^2 =82215675 Pa or 82x10^6 Pa
Already above the tensile strength. Smaller radius allows for higher speeds.
Eg a 6mm diameter sphere , radius 3mm or 0.003m the stress at 100k rpm is about 7.5 x10^6Pa
Well bellow the limits of failure, all else being in good condition, eg no cracks, inclusions, and so forth.
So be care full out there add a factor of safety 2-5 the higher the better, just to be sure, and an adequate Lexan enclosure.
I hope this helps.
Thanks
Mike
0. Always wear safety glasses when working with strong magnets and rotating assemblies.
1. Yes, please use Lexan (polycarbonate) plastic and NOT Plexiglas (Acrylite, Perspex) (acrylic) for safety shields and enclosures. The acrylic plastic can shatter dangerously.
2. Any rotating assembly involving strong magnets must restrain the magnets structurally, not just by glue joints. Glues fail, and a magnet can go flying across the room, and while it might not be going that fast.... once it hits something and fragments, the pieces _will_ be going fast, they will be hot and dangerous. Restrain your rotor magnets structurally _and_ with adhesives!
3. Am I reading the report correctly? The same person who was seriously injured by the disintegrating large sphere magnet.... had the same thing happen earlier with a smaller magnet and received a lesser injury? And then went and did the same thing again, with a larger magnet at higher speeds?
It's a tragedy all right and the person was lucky he wasn't injured worse or even killed .... but really...... :-\
Many of us have seen the photograph of my epoxy golf ball magnet. I believe successive coatings of linear polyurethane, perhaps pocked like a golf ball on the outside, might add cohesiveness and speed. This idea was Pirate Twinbeard's. He also suggested running the spheres in PVC couplings. Very tough material. Golf balls travel faster with those tiny dents.
These guys are doing exactly the same thing I was with my multifilar spirals, a trigger, power and output spiral around the PVC tube and magnet sphere. I showed the setup running at unity, looped back to source, with enough primary feedback to light a 120 volt LED bulb to around 2/3rds it's intensity. I claim this as OU.
Thanks for this warning. Fascinating these "satellite" magnet setups.
Due to the danger, iron or steel magnets might be the better choice, I assume. I was never happy with the neodymium magnets breaking and splittering so easily during my own experiments, but now I'll remember when to not use neodyms.
Quote from: TinselKoala on June 22, 2013, 11:30:36 PM
3. Am I reading the report correctly? The same person who was seriously injured by the disintegrating large sphere magnet.... had the same thing happen earlier with a smaller magnet and received a lesser injury? And then went and did the same thing again, with a larger magnet at higher speeds?
Yes, he had blown already a smaller magnet and got hit only lightly at his thumb as I was told...
Then he experimented with the larger 1 inch ball magnet and it struck him real hard this time !
Many thanks for the tip with the Lexan ( Polycarbonate !)
Quote from: synchro1 on June 23, 2013, 01:24:54 AM
These guys are doing exactly the same thing I was with my multifilar spirals, a trigger, power and output spiral around the PVC tube and magnet sphere. I showed the setup running at unity, looped back to source, with enough primary feedback to light a 120 volt LED bulb to around 2/3rds it's intensity. I claim this as OU.
Hi synchro1,
can you please show a video of your device ?
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
First: the Magnetkugel-EMDR is a great design http://visionblueenergy.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/magnetkugel-emdr/ (http://visionblueenergy.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/magnetkugel-emdr/), I will try to build a similar thing.
In a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMiwxJsV7Y0&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMiwxJsV7Y0&feature=player_embedded) they hint at OU ("the battery does not discharge although there is a load of two gas discharge tubes").
I wonder why they do not try with a capacitor (e.g. supercaps) instead of the battery. One would see very quickly whether the cap discharges or not.
I also do not understand why the "generator coil" is very far below the spinning ball-magnet.
Is someone from the EMDR-group present in this forum? Would they answer questions (e.g. in German)?
Greetings, Conrad
Hi Conrad,
I am also still waiting for some answers.
They are currently mostly on the Facebook groups like:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/266974953429136/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/266974953429136/)
and
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Action4Free/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/Action4Free/)
Try to connect there with them in German language...
The problem is that these guys mostly only speak German language...
Anyway, I will post new updates in english language also here,when I will get some.
Regards, Stefan.
Yep Lexan is what is used for bullet proof glass. Since you don't need that long of a tube of it I'd suggest a tube with a minimum 1" thick wall. I think it takes about 3" thickness to stop a high power rifle bullet hitting straight on. So the thicker the better. Not sure how thick stock pieces might be but it may be possible to put several sizes together one each fitting just over the outside of the next piece i.e. concentric rings of tubing.
Quote from: hartiberlin on June 23, 2013, 11:17:18 AM
Hi synchro1,
can you please show a video of your device ?
Many thanks in advance.
Regards, Stefan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asTs_iuUbuM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLlx7cjHzBEmQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asTs_iuUbuM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLlx7cjHzBEmQ)
Listen to the soundtrack on this video. I had had this running for a day and a half with the same zinging effect. Bouncing the power back and forth in resonance! No change in battery voltage. The big spiral's a trigger and power, and the smaller spiral's wired to a FWBR then to the source battery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=YTjqcX6sigQ&feature=endscreen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=YTjqcX6sigQ&feature=endscreen)
Now that is interesting.
With the toroidal winding you should not be getting very much magnetic flux leakage, but you can be driving the core into and out of saturation, and also getting some additional augmentation from the field of the rotating sphere magnet.
In other words, you might have a core-effect pulse motor, self-triggering, with the internal spherical magnet as its rotor. It's like a Steorn Orbo core-effect pulse motor, only much better!
If, that is, I am right about it running from the core effect rather than flux leakage from the toroid acting as an electromagnet.
Quote from: synchro1 on June 23, 2013, 07:30:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asTs_iuUbuM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLlx7cjHzBEmQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asTs_iuUbuM&feature=c4-overview&playnext=1&list=TLlx7cjHzBEmQ)
No change in battery voltage. The big spiral's a trigger and power, and the smaller spiral's wired to a FWBR then to the source battery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=YTjqcX6sigQ&feature=endscreen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=YTjqcX6sigQ&feature=endscreen)
I never understand why people who claim "no power consumption" never use a capacitor instead of a battery.
I would allow to start the device with a battery till it assumes "constant operation", but then a capacitor (which already was in parallel with the battery) could take over. Then one measures (e.g. every minute) the Voltage over the cap for a few seconds only (because the multimeter would be a load).
The capacity of a battery to drive a low power device is sufficient to do it for many days (and I have driven a Joule Thief with one AAA battery for almost 4 months), therefore "no change in battery Voltage" is a meaningless statement. It only shows "low power consumption".
It is specially bad if the tests are done with a 12 V 7 Ah battery (or even bigger batteries). To see a change in Voltage in case 100 µW are drawn will take many days and will probably be due to self discharging.
Greetings, Conrad
The battery voltage drops noticably right away when I disconnect the feedback loop. This draw shows up instantly, it dosen't take days. I don't need a capacitor to tell me what's going on!
Here's what I know for sure; Current can't flow in two directions at the same time through the same wire, but it can reverse directions. I use a number of magnet spheres of different sizes. The 1 1/2 " speeds up and slows down. Looking at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEtnFn6TAzs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEtnFn6TAzs)
We can see the amp meter charging the battery as the sphere slows down and then reversing the current and draining the source as it regains speed. The charge coil then gains sway with an overwhelming back surge. That zither sound at around a hertz is the frequency of the charge reversal. While it's behaving that way in tight resonant oscillation, there's no further draw on the power source.
Even when the amp draw is rising and falling 3 100's each way, the base line voltage doesn't change. Think about it. At a steady R.P.M., once the charge coil's power reaches exchange level, there's no way for any other power to work into the circuit! The transaction is an even exchange from that point foward!
Quote from: synchro1 on June 24, 2013, 09:05:01 PM
snip...
Current can't flow in two directions at the same time through the same wire
snip..
Actually, in broad terms, currents can flow in opposite directions at the same time in the same wire.
But only those currents which are not deriving their emf from the same source at the same time.
KneeDeep
Aside from this tragic incident I just wondered, why we haven't a topic about this kind of generator in this forum...?
The "Bearingless bedini" thread from Energetic forum tailed off with Pirate Twinbeard's supersonic spins. Now these Germans are running three transistors in parallel, and going that fast. Twinbeard ran primary flyback from his Starship coil into his solenoid output coil to accelerate the sphere with "Lenz Delay". The trio of transistors in the German schematic makes the drive circuit much simpler! The magnet sphere turns into a power plant toward desintigration r.p.m.
I think the real lesson in this tragedy is to ask yourself why. Why did they try to spin up the ball to super high speed? Was there a reason for doing that? I doubt that there was. People make these things and then try to push up the speed for pure sport, there is no real reason related to research. It's the equivalent of a child playing with matches. Hopefully others will learn from this.
Synchro1:
QuoteThe magnet sphere turns into a power plant toward desintigration r.p.m.
That's just fantasy talk like usual. Lots of talk but not much in terms of tests and results. If you believe what you are saying then present some data to back up your claims.
MileHigh
Yeasterday we had a Google Hangout Videochat about the safety aspect of the ball magnet
motors.
Unfortunately only in German language, so if you understand German language, have a look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaSURDDj1xA
Regards, Stefan.
I would say that normal caution would have prevented the accident.
One tests the thing with relatively low input and not too high turning rate. Nasty whining sounds are a clear indication that one approaches danger.
For an extreme test one switches the thing to a higher input power from behind a wall (or from an other room) with a longish cable. If one wants to watch a cheap web cam would do the trick.
I agree that many people spin their contraptions too fast with their faces close by. I might have done that occasionally and will be more careful from now on. I have learned that from this story.
A turning machine, a engine lathe or an angle grinder are far more dangerous than these experiments as long as one exercises natural caution. I read that the hand held electric planers cause the most gruesome accidents and angle grinders hurt a lot of feet.
The most dangerous thing people do in the rich countries is eating too much and the wrong products.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: MileHigh on June 26, 2013, 06:48:34 PM
I think the real lesson in this tragedy is to ask yourself why. Why did they try to spin up the ball to super high speed? Was there a reason for doing that? I doubt that there was. People make these things and then try to push up the speed for pure sport, there is no real reason related to research. It's the equivalent of a child playing with matches. Hopefully others will learn from this.
Synchro1:
That's just fantasy talk like usual. Lots of talk but not much in terms of tests and results. If you believe what you are saying then present some data to back up your claims.
MileHigh
You're the guy who maintained Tesla's bifilar coil for electromagnets was void of any actual function. Lorentz maintains current's effected by magnetic field and visa versa. It takes power to magnetize and power's generated when material's demagnetized. That includes the Neodydmium metal the magnet's made from. We can see power come from decoupling in the Leedskalnin experiment after 2 years by RWG. Power's generated directly from the magnet the same way, at much higher frequencies! REG's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=832qz3s1M-s
Synchro1:
I posted a question asking for someone to suggest an application for Tesla's "series bifilar" coil acting as a self-resonator and nobody had an answer. Are you trying to imply that I am wrong with the sentence, "You're the guy who maintained Tesla's bifilar coil for electromagnets was void of any actual function." If yes, what did I say that you think was wrong?
QuoteWe can see power come from decoupling in the Leedskalnin experiment after 2 years by RWG. Power's generated directly from the magnet the same way, at much higher frequencies!
You seem to be drawing a connection to the Leedskalnin experiment and the spinning ball magnet in a pulse motor. There is no connection beyond the fact that changing magnetic flux passing through a loop of wire can result in power output if you connect a load across the ends of the wire.
Honestly, the "Leedskalnin experiment" is one of those funny things that takes on a life of its own on the forms. This is a topic that might be covered in 20 minutes in a grade 8 physics class and then the class would move on and then nobody would give it a second thought. Somehow Mr. Leedskalnin got his name associated with this and he somehow seems to have claimed ownership of it. The problem is that many of the experimenters that play with the effect and make video clips, etc, can't actually explain exactly what is going on whereas a 13-year-old keener in grade 8 physics class could. It's just one of those strange things in life.
Your comments about the sphere turning into a power plant or this earlier comment, "While it's behaving that way in tight resonant oscillation, there's no further draw on the power source" are simply wrong. It's just fantasy talk Synchro1.
MileHigh
So is there overunity with this spinning magnetball device or not?
Pirate Twinbeard measured 253 amps from his output coil spinning a 1/8" neo sphere super sonic, enough current to fry all his circuitry. Could this be cold electricity? The Micro Cosmic plenum may reach absolute zero like the Macro one in outer space. Current drawn from there may be chilled down some. Have you seen his videos?
Go Speedracer! FlowerPower Frequency - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg)
Quote from: synchro1 on June 28, 2013, 01:43:46 PM
Pirate Twinbeard measured 253 amps from his output coil spinning a 1/8" neo sphere super sonic, enough current to fry all his circuitry. Could this be cold electricity? The Micro Cosmic plenum may reach absolute zero like the Macro one in outer space. Current drawn from there may be chilled down some. Have you seen his videos?
Go Speedracer! FlowerPower Frequency - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg)
synchro1,
>>Twinbeard measured 253 amps from his output coil
How did he measure 253 amps?
What was the thickness of the wire used in the output coil?
At what voltage did he measure 253 amps?
What load did he have on the output coil while measuring 253 amps?
GL.
Quote from: synchro1 on June 28, 2013, 01:43:46 PM
Pirate Twinbeard measured 253 amps from his output coil spinning a 1/8" neo sphere super sonic, enough current to fry all his circuitry. Could this be cold electricity? The Micro Cosmic plenum may reach absolute zero like the Macro one in outer space. Current drawn from there may be chilled down some. Have you seen his videos?
Go Speedracer! FlowerPower Frequency - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtCN1GWqtqg)
Garbage in, garbage out. Twinbeard clearly has never experienced a kilovolt at one amp of real current, or he is unduly impressed by peak currents that last for very short times. And I grit my teeth at the scope abuse.
I don't really trust his "three million rpm" figure either, because I know that the pulsation frequency does not necessarily correspond to the rotation frequency. Does he ever show any concurrent measurement of the actual rotation of the magnet, to prove that he's getting 3,000,000 rpm? Has anyone actually calculated the centrifugal force and belt stresses at the surface of the magnet at that rotation rate?
This forum _really_ needs more smileys.
You can hear whatever it is spinning in the background at certain points in the clip. It's somewhere around 100-150 Hz to my ears. So let's say it is 125 Hz. That's 7500 RPM.
At 3,000,000 RPM the spinny thing would disintegrate into thousands of tiny spears of shrapnel and spray you like a Tesla shotgun.
http://www.youtube.com/movie/hellraiser-revelations?feature=mv_sr
Read this:
http://www.gnuveau.net/pulse/[/size]
Both, the Germans (see the videos in the first post of this thread) and Twinbeard have a way of presenting their set up, circuit and results which is very hard to understand. Also the web sites are of limited help.
I do not think they want to hide something, it is just their way of doing things. Let's say, it is very unscientific.
It is absolutely not clear how much power is put in and what comes out. It is not even clear how the power comes out. The circuits show several ways of "power out" like charging a battery, charging capacitors, full diode bridge. All at the same time?
It might be interesting to build such a "ball magnet spinner" and to do proper measurements. Also the drive circuit could be enhanced in the direction of less power draw. The Germans went in this direction by separating the trigger coil from the drive coil (which could lower the losses through the well adapted number of windings for the trigger coil). May be a Hall sensor could allow more precise switching. Where to put the Hall sensor?
Both, Twinbeard and the Germans place the generator coil at about the same place (on top or below the drive coil).
The "ball magnet" seems to spin exactly in the centre of the drive coil. Twinbeard has "holder" for the ball magnet, the Germans seem to trap it inside a tube (and smaller inner tube, so that the ball magnet does not fall through).
Well, lots of questions, no precise measurements.
Greetings, Conrad
I read Twinbeard's description of the FlowerPower device and looked at the schematic. It's just a variation on a ball-spinner Bedini motor where he adds transformer couplings and stuff like that.
However, here is the most important point: What he says in his write up is junked-up with a mish-mash of Voodoo electronics superstitions and cockamamie nonsense. He is seemingly not aware of that and thinks he is doing really well for himself.
Here is the problem in a nutshell: Joe Blow off the street wanders into a five-star French haute cuisine restaurant. The owner runs up to him and says, "Our principal chef just had a car accident and we have a big banquet tonight, can we hire you for the position?" The Joe Blow would say, "No! Are you kidding, I can barely cook hot dogs!" Same Joe Blow off the street wanders into an electronics lab and sees a scope and some coils and MOSFETs and says, "Hey! I am going to design and build a free energy machine!" Even though his total electronics experience amounts to changing the batteries in his flashlight, he seems to have no problem talking like he knows what he is talking about. He saw it on YouTube so he is now an expert.
This phenomenon is very strange indeed.
Synchro1, if I met Twinbeard and we started doing stuff together on his bench with his ordinary and slightly funky pulse motor, I would spin circles around poor Twinbeard to the point that his jaw would permanently drop and he would be in shock. Twinbeard barely knows what he is doing, which is not a problem at all. However, the serious major problem is that he thinks he knows what he is doing. At the same time I can't believe that he is so stupid that he is not on some level self-aware that he is just a Joe Blow off the street that barely knows anything about electronics. This might be some kind of suppressed self-awareness phenomenon associated with free energy experimenters in electronics.
So that was a soap box rant, and a justified one. You don't want to get a lethal shock or rip your hand apart with shrapnel, now do you? I have met experimenters online that very clearly barely have a clue and they believe all sorts of Voodoo electronics nonsense and within a short while they tell me that they don't have time to "teach" me.
It's like taking a New Zealand sheep farmer and putting him in the soybean pit of the Chicago mercantile exchange - it just doesn't work.
@Milehigh,
You amount to nothing more than an over blown windbag!
You can allege that but the truth is that with a scope and a multimeter I could dissect that pulse motor and explain exactly how it works to Twinbeard. Stage by stage, analyzing the timing, checking how well the transistor is functioning, measuring how much power is flowing and where it is flowing, properly measuring the RPM, explaining all of the impedance matching and load issues, explaining exactly what is happening with the main coil voltage and current, explaining what the "Lenz delay" really is, analyzing the power in and the power out and so on and so on. I could dissect that motor and all the additional transformers and loads from A to Z practically with my eyes closed.
The conclusion: Nothing special is going on.
That's just just more hot air.
So the device is nothing more than hot air? Very disappointing... I had high hopes. Though that would explain why there weren't any significant updates on their webpage since the beginnings of 2012...
It took more then hot air to nearly cut that guys hand off. Twinbeard ended up with a darlington pair. These guys added a trio of transisters. All these setups are trigger coil bedini's. We need too hear from them about their output ratios. The video shows an illuminated light bank.
Milehigh. I just read your rant. Please, show me some things that will make my jaw drop. Bring you own instrumentation, if you feel it necessary. Until then, quit swinging your dick around. It is not attractive.
Twinbeard:
I recently estimated I have about 4500 hours of bench experience but I have hung up my scope probes. How about you do a clip where you make proper measurements and demonstrate total competency with respect to your instruments and your pulse motor circuit? Demonstrate a complete understanding of all of the nuances including covering all the issues related to driving the transistor properly. Explain all of the dynamics of the coil including the spike generation.
Suck on that.
MileHigh
As I expected. Just another troll, which is why I left this forum. Nothing to contribute but asshattery. My time is $250/hr, but I do not think I will be selling it to you. Feel free to replicate what I built, if you can. I included a full schematic and BOM, which is WAY more than I see from most of the pudwhacking naysayers making this forum have a poor s/n ratio. The NASA folks, on the other hand, tend to crowd around when I show up at their events and explain how my months in advance solar flare prediction system works. I think my time is better spent speaking with enlightened individuals, as opposed to cowtowing to the desires of the foolish. Now, if you will excuse me, I have people seriously interested in progress to attend to.
Also, per this thread, I too had one of those magnets explode, but only a 1/8" diameter model. Luckily I was not hit. It was a result of lack of heat dissipation in the rotor housing, which caused the magnet to reach a temperature over its Curie temp. BOOM. Be careful with these circuits. There is a TREMENDOUS amount of angular momentum involved when tuned properly, and this can be quite dangerous.
That said, apart from other interesting effects produced by the rotation, solid state is far better for collecting energy, as you are not using any of it to drive your rotor.
Twinbeard:
I looked at your clip again. You measure 20 microseconds between the small spikes. You don't make a single attempt to double-check that measurement. You don't try changing the time base, you don't try changing the trigger level, you don't make any attempt to double check your scope probe connection, you don't try to check if there might be a 20 microsecond clock signal somewhere else in the circuit or perhaps even close to the circuit. You notice (not you personally, I mean the generic "you") that sometimes on the display you see that spikes are completely missing in a regular pattern, like "missing teeth." But if your rotating magnet ball is truly doing one revolution every 20 microseconds that should not be happening. But you don't even question that. If there are missing spikes then something certainly is amiss, but you don't do anything to investigate that mystery.
Then you state that you tweaked the trigger level and you end up with a stable display but there are still two missing spikes! You almost certainly are not looking at the speed of he rotating ball magnet. 3,000,000 RPM is a ridiculous speed for just about any size of rotating magnet but you are seemingly numb and unaware as you correctly crunch the garbage-in-garbage-out numbers.
Then you look at the generator output and you see a waveform that looks like icicles in winter. You don't even make an attempt to reduce your voltage scale, change your time base, adjust your trigger level and get a good waveform triggered from that channel. You are supposed to know ahead of time that the expected waveform is a near-pure sine wave at that alleged frequency. It looks like a compound waveform of some sort, perhaps two separate sine waves added together, with "low" and "high" peaks along with some amplitude modulation as the two sine waves beat with each other. Why is that? You don't even try to figure it out.
Okay so you have a bunch of transformers in the circuit. Perhaps that partially explains the seeming total mess on the output waveform, but you don't care. You put your hand near the multimeter and the current measurement skews. That's not supposed to happen so it almost certainly means that measurement is junk but you don't care. Are there any bandwidth issues with your multimeter when is trying to measure the very high-frequency AC current? I bet that you don't know and you never checked.
To sum it up, your clip is a total disaster. My best guess is that your setup was self-resonating at 50 KHz while a the same time the little ball magnet was turning at high speed, but at a much much lower speed than the ridiculous speed of 3,000,000 RPM.
If the ball was actually turning at 3,000,000 RPM, chances are that within 10 seconds you would smell burning plastic and the thing would spontaneously self-destruct from the heat due to friction.
So your clip leaves a lot to be desired. I am giving you the real deal. I made $8 an hour when I worked at McDonalds in the 1970s.
MileHigh
Yeah, watch the videos that came after that one. My instrumentation got better as well as the device, and my understanding of the processes evolved. You will find answers to your objections there, because frankly, I have heard all this crap before. Quite a few very intelligent people well versed in the applicable physics have seen the device in person, and examined it. Not one has questioned the frequency of operation, particularly after hearing the air ripping around the rotor, which, alas does not come through in the videos due to ambient noise, the fact that I like to play music while making videos to have a background soundtrack, and the lack of a studio quality mic. Per friction... it atomizes some of the lubricant, but not all. Eventually the lexan tube the rotor is housed in fails as a fine powder of lexan is produced over time. This does not happen in all instances, as occasionally the rotor will essentially suspend inside the housing, causing only air friction. But none of that matters, really, because you opened the conversation by being an asshole. Learn some manners, and perhaps you might learn something, if that is indeed why you are here. Time will tell if you a genuine or just another paid shill... a common play from a tired playbook that I am WELL versed in applying countermeasures against.
Do you really think people have to be paid to "debunk" your video? Your clip was cited by Synchro1 and you inadvertently got dragged into the discussion. My original comments on your clip are true, as you are basically acknowledging that right now. You got vulgar hence the detailed response.
I did look at one other video of yours, and you fail to decipher what your scope is telling you. It's a common "waveform within a waveform" pattern that any experienced person would recognize.
This clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIZDu7HFmJI
Note my comments in the previous posting before I even looked at this new clip:
QuoteIt looks like a compound waveform of some sort, perhaps two separate sine waves added together, with "low" and "high" peaks along with some amplitude modulation as the two sine waves beat with each other.
See the attached pic from the new clip. That's essentially what you are looking at the whole time when you play with the base resistor value. You just have to know how to trigger on it. In this case the waveform did the triggering on you. It's a very old clip and for all I know you have gained a lot more experience and knowledge since then.
Back to you:
QuoteFeel free to replicate what I built, if you can.
I haven't worked seriously worked on an electronics bench in 20 years and I can still spin circles around you. No offense but just keeping in real and let's just turn the page. I don't even like electronics anymore and for what it's worth there are some people here that can easily spin circles around me. It's like a Richter scale and I am not on top, that's for sure.
If someone makes a reference to a YouTube clip as being amazing and the clip is a mess, sometimes I will point that out. I only do it occasionally. It's for the good of all the readers and specifically it was for Synchro1's benefit. Sorry it tasted like cod liver oil but Synchro1 himself can be like cod liver oil. It was not directed personally at you. Your clip just happened to be the one that was cited.
MileHigh
You absolutely need a second method of measuring the speed of the spinner. The assumption that the spinner is spinning in 1-to-1 synch with the drive pulses is just that: an assumption. Until you get a valid second type of measurement that confirms that you can use the electronic signal, you simply don't know.
@Piratetwinbeard,
I have been deeply inspired by Jerry Bayles and his Chiral Homopolar balance magnet oscillation demonstration. Jerry has determined that longitudinal magnet waves describe a vortex based on a Phi or a Fibonocci series like the plant image below: My current theory is; That this kind of wave vortex, with the poles trailing one another at 180 degrees, spins the neo magnet faster then the applied pulse. My point is, it may be feasible to help predict spin rate with theoretical mathematics, along with our imprecise analog testing techniques. This may act as a "Second Method" for calculating spin rate.
"Each Phi spiral is actually a series of pure sine waves. It is a well-known principle in physics that any complex wave shape can be created from the sum of simpler pure sine waves with different frequencies and amplitudes. This principle is called the Fourier principle. The Phi spiral is constructed from a series of harmonics with wavelengths that comply with the Golden Mean version of the Fibonacci sequence":
Jerry Bayles Chiral Homopolar balance magnets oscillate at the Phi resonant hertz as predicted by the bottom graph! Gravityblock noted that Jerry's balance magnets nearly tore off the test bench at 1.618 hertz!
Here are some photos uploaded by Gravityblock:
Note that the balance magnets revolve 360 degrees at 3.38 Hertz, twice the 1.618 on the left side. The right side yields a Shumman resonant frequency of 7.83 for the complete revoloution. The speed of the magnet wave is Pi/2. C, and multiples of Pi like 6.28 result in resonant peaks, depending on which side of the Chiral disks the balance magnets are positioned! We witness a range of resonant peaks, all of which correspond to one or another of these formulas.
http://www.youtube.com/user/JEBAYLES (http://www.youtube.com/user/JEBAYLES)
1,000,000 R.P.M. There's hardly anything to this circuit. Take a close look at the coil and see if you can identify a third wire, indicating a series bifilar connection!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB7zzs9x5Og (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB7zzs9x5Og)
Anyone who has played around with this kind of power spinner will start to ask why the neo magnet spinner accelerates at such a high rate of speed, while coupled with input power reduction. The increase in speed during power reduction can not been adequately explained without the "Magnet Wave Theory".
Yes, it's perfectly explainable without recourse to unconventional hand-waving.
That last video is a bit more believable because the acoustic signature is a cross-check on the electrical tachometry. Still, there should always be some confirming measurement: optical or audio or maybe physical vibration, to verify that the magnet is spinning in 1-to-1 synch with the driving signal. No, self-triggering does not always assure 1-to-1 synch.
The most important part of that demonstration is the magnet explosion. He could easily have put out an eye, or even worse, destroyed his oscilloscope when that happened. If people want to fool around with spinning magnets fast like this, they really need to spend some time on safety precautions.
Also it's evident that the driver he is using doesn't correspond to the schematic presented at first.
Quote from: TinselKoala on April 26, 2014, 05:47:51 AM
Yes, it's perfectly explainable without recourse to unconventional hand-waving.
That last video is a bit more believable because the acoustic signature is a cross-check on the electrical tachometry. Still, there should always be some confirming measurement: optical or audio or maybe physical vibration, to verify that the magnet is spinning in 1-to-1 synch with the driving signal. No, self-triggering does not always assure 1-to-1 synch.
The most important part of that demonstration is the magnet explosion. He could easily have put out an eye, or even worse, destroyed his oscilloscope when that happened. If people want to fool around with spinning magnets fast like this, they really need to spend some time on safety precautions.
Also it's evident that the driver he is using doesn't correspond to the schematic presented at first.
I want to reinforce TK's admonition; The hyper fast spinning magnet is a
LETHAL PROJECTILE! A PVC coupling provides adequate protection. The coupling not the pipe.
I wish I had access to my old lab. It would be really interesting to take a high-speed video of the magnet exploding from the inertial stresses. I used to be able to use a video camera that could take 30,000 frames per second. Oh well, maybe somebody up there is reading this and will try it.
Quote from: TinselKoala on April 26, 2014, 01:38:35 PM
I wish I had access to my old lab. It would be really interesting to take a high-speed video of the magnet exploding from the inertial stresses. I used to be able to use a video camera that could take 30,000 frames per second. Oh well, maybe somebody up there is reading this and will try it.
What is your nearest University town, TK?
I would bet my bottom dollar that, if your gear is reasonably transportable, one of the engineering faculties will have the equipment and be entertained at the idea of setting up on their premises.
The real challenge is converting that speed to useable power.
It doesn't have to be big either.
Wow!! You mean if someone is an asshole to me, I can tell them to lick my left nut and not get banned!!?? This is the coolest Forum on the Internet!! 8)
Sign me up for a life membership!! :)
Hi All,
we again have to warn users using big sized Neodym ball magnets with high speed rotation !
Another member of a German group has been hit by flying apart pieces of such a 3 cm diameter ball magnet.
He got hit into his arm with several pieces and also a plexiglas piece flying into his eye,
fortunately it was no piece of the magnet, so his eye could be saved.
Here is a video, where he described what happened to him, in German language:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM_I3PQfhR8
So please be very carefull, when you play with ball magnets.
They are only sinter-pressed together and at high speed they fly apart and act like
lethal dum-dum munitions.. !
Better don´t use them at all !
I hope you will see the danger now...
Regards. Stefan.
Here a picture of his eye from the hospital being hit by a piece
of plexiglas.