Here's a self spining magnet rotor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FxJkQ3mJ3I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FxJkQ3mJ3I)
Facepalm. It is NOT self-spinning, he is pumping it with the handheld stator.
I wonder how many times a day someone playing with magnets re-invents the Minato Motor.
This is a neat implementation of the autokinetic effect, but all of the rotation of the thing comes from the input of Mister Hand. With these kinds of devices just the effort of trying to hold the stator magnet still will be enough to cause pumping of energy into the rotor. Mount the stator to a rigid mount and no matter where you put it, the rotor will stop rotating.
The guy gets a point or two for his enthusiasm, but he gets points off for the political agenda and the self-hypnosis... and the evident lack of background research.
Gahh.... This time I won't even link to _my_ video of a Minato motor pumped by the stator motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdfPj7wOuQU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdfPj7wOuQU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWK40g3L3F4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWK40g3L3F4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veTMdySMDDg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veTMdySMDDg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bwtgnr1Fm4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bwtgnr1Fm4)
ETA: The true Minato motor, the patented version, uses repulsion between the stator and rotor magnets. I think the "ice cream" motor uses attraction, so you have to be careful not to get too close or the "ice cream" will get pulled up into the "cone" stator, as you see in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkgyY47duCM
and here's my current favorite: notice how little push from Mr Hand is needed to get the spinner going:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ttm13AyiMs
Ah yes, the "minato motor." It just won't die!
why do these things keep coming back.
Now Sterling is reviving the new Fast Freddy as well.
Kind Regards
I must have missed Fast Freddy the first time around. I see that a lot of people have an emotional history with him.
All I can say at this point is that compressing mixed H and O gases is _dangerous_ and has resulted in many explosions among the HHO tinkerers, even killing a couple of them.
@Tk
Freddy sold a lot of exclusive licences to many people, in some cases for tens of thousands.
His original partner blew 25.000 plus before leaving in a screaming heap,
He is a con man through and through
Mark
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 08, 2013, 06:05:13 PM
Facepalm. It is NOT self-spinning, he is pumping it with the handheld stator.
I wonder how many times a day someone playing with magnets re-invents the Minato Motor.
This is a neat implementation of the autokinetic effect, but all of the rotation of the thing comes from the input of Mister Hand. With these kinds of devices just the effort of trying to hold the stator magnet still will be enough to cause pumping of energy into the rotor. Mount the stator to a rigid mount and no matter where you put it, the rotor will stop rotating.
The guy gets a point or two for his enthusiasm, but he gets points off for the political agenda and the self-hypnosis... and the evident lack of background research.
Gahh.... This time I won't even link to _my_ video of a Minato motor pumped by the stator motion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdfPj7wOuQU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdfPj7wOuQU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWK40g3L3F4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWK40g3L3F4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veTMdySMDDg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veTMdySMDDg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bwtgnr1Fm4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bwtgnr1Fm4)
ETA: The true Minato motor, the patented version, uses repulsion between the stator and rotor magnets. I think the "ice cream" motor uses attraction, so you have to be careful not to get too close or the "ice cream" will get pulled up into the "cone" stator, as you see in the video.
These types of "non-motor demos" have become easy to spot, when you see the demo shows magnets near each other, being held manually (adding movement by hand) in order to create a weak spin, powered by Mr. hand.
The following magnet motor is a
real actuator assisted motor, and derives a good deal of it's drive from the permanent magnetic fields. Different designs of the motor can use more magnetic field drive with much less power consumption. This is a design that is solid and repeatable, not powered by Mr. hand and is not just powered by the actuator.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LibertyMagnetMotor (http://www.youtube.com/user/LibertyMagnetMotor)
Liberty
That's pretty clever (the earliest video 6 years ago shows the principle of operation, which is not clear in the other vids).
You say, though, that it "is not just powered by the actuator."
What else is powering it, then, and do you have any evidence that it is not powered "just" by the speaker-driven actuator?
Why don't you just use a cam or other mechanical linkage running off the rotor, to drive the speaker cone, and then instead of pumping power into the speaker coil, you can get power _out_ of it. Right?
That blows my mind! I'm undergoing some kind of spiritual rebirth.
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 09, 2013, 11:50:16 AM
That's pretty clever (the earliest video 6 years ago shows the principle of operation, which is not clear in the other vids).
You say, though, that it "is not just powered by the actuator."
What else is powering it, then, and do you have any evidence that it is not powered "just" by the speaker-driven actuator?
Why don't you just use a cam or other mechanical linkage running off the rotor, to drive the speaker cone, and then instead of pumping power into the speaker coil, you can get power _out_ of it. Right?
Thank you Tinsel.
"What else is powering it,..."
As I said, the permanent magnetic fields of the magnets (in the stator and rotor) provide the remainder of rotational torque in the motor. Since a magnetic field can not be visually displayed, it will not be possible to show visual evidence, without a confidential demonstration (to protect the IP).
Mechanical cam actuation is not practical, because a mechanical design lacks precision (is too sloppy) and would greatly limit motor performance because it lacks precision. Therefore, use of a small amount of power to enable better precision performance of the motor is called for.
Liberty
This latest video of Gotuluc's demonstrates the practicality of overunity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eTQ49RcFKM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eTQ49RcFKM)
Imagine a speaker under the waving magnet hammer oscillator. Gotoluc demonstrates more force per milli amp with the addition of magnets. I believe it's fair to project that kind of gain.
@Liberty: I hate to always sound so negative... but I'll wager that all the power that rotates the rotor does in fact come from the electrical energy you are supplying to the actuator speaker coil. Since you are unwilling to show evidence to the contrary... maybe I'll just have to build one myself and do some measurements I can rely on.
The reason you don't use my cam-linkage idea is because you know it won't work, and not because of lack of precision. Any competent machinist can work to precision levels far above your ability in gluing a post to a speaker cone, and the magnetic fields you are working with are far sloppier than a precise mechanical linkage would be.
Your magnetic linkage has many real advantages over a mechanical crank-conrod arrangement, and a few disadvantages, but it does not produce any extra energy above what you are supplying to the speaker coil.
@synchro: Is Gotoluc claiming overunity performance from his device?
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 09, 2013, 01:38:47 PM
@Liberty: I hate to always sound so negative... but I'll wager that all the power that rotates the rotor does in fact come from the electrical energy you are supplying to the actuator speaker coil. Since you are unwilling to show evidence to the contrary... maybe I'll just have to build one myself and do some measurements I can rely on.
The reason you don't use my cam-linkage idea is because you know it won't work, and not because of lack of precision. Any competent machinist can work to precision levels far above your ability in gluing a post to a speaker cone, and the magnetic fields you are working with are far sloppier than a precise mechanical linkage would be.
Your magnetic linkage has many real advantages over a mechanical crank-conrod arrangement, and a few disadvantages, but it does not produce any extra energy above what you are supplying to the speaker coil.
I respect your negative opinion, and understand it because of a lack of knowledge and understanding of new technology.
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 09, 2013, 01:38:47 PM
@Liberty: I hate to always sound so negative... but I'll wager that all the power that rotates the rotor does in fact come from the electrical energy you are supplying to the actuator speaker coil. Since you are unwilling to show evidence to the contrary... maybe I'll just have to build one myself and do some measurements I can rely on.
The reason you don't use my cam-linkage idea is because you know it won't work, and not because of lack of precision. Any competent machinist can work to precision levels far above your ability in gluing a post to a speaker cone, and the magnetic fields you are working with are far sloppier than a precise mechanical linkage would be.
Your magnetic linkage has many real advantages over a mechanical crank-conrod arrangement, and a few disadvantages, but it does not produce any extra energy above what you are supplying to the speaker coil.
"The reason you don't use my cam-linkage idea is because you know it won't work, and not because of lack of precision."
If you knew "my" idea of cam-linkage won't work, why did you suggest that I use it? I think your motivations have been made very clear on this subject.
Liberty
Wesley Gary's generator had a coil armature with a current reversing DPDT switch over a stack of magnets. The power of the armature is in direct proportion to the number of magnets in the stack. It's basic math to calculate the force necessary in the PM stator's to lift a power piston magnet plug inside a solenoid output coil to generate the small amount of armature current. Gotoluc has core saturation as an obstacle, Gary's generator does not share this limitation.
Quote from: Liberty on August 09, 2013, 02:07:05 PM
"The reason you don't use my cam-linkage idea is because you know it won't work, and not because of lack of precision."
If you knew "my" idea of cam-linkage won't work, why did you suggest that I use it? I think your motivations have been made very clear on this subject.
Liberty
My motivations have always been very clear.
IF YOU MAKE A CLAIM that violates conventional understanding THEN YOU MUST SUPPORT THAT CLAIM WITH DATA.
Is that clear enough for you?
If you are unwilling to share your data, then you can keep your CLAIMS to yourself, please.
After all, I have a trained Gremlin, that lives in an old shoe under my bed. It performs all kinds of miracle work for me... but I can't show you any of it because of NDAs, you know how that goes. Don't believe me? Then.... your motivations are clear.
"If you knew "my" idea of cam-linkage won't work, why did you suggest that I use it? "
Because I wanted to see what kind of excuse you would come up with. It's the same reason I ask MoGen claimants to remove the batteries that run their devices..... or to explain why they can't.
Quote from: synchro1 on August 09, 2013, 02:08:31 PM
Wesley Gary's generator had a coil armature with a current reversing DPDT switch over a stack of magnets. The power of the armature is in direct proportion to the number of magnets in the stack. It's basic math to calculate the force necessary in the PM stator's to lift a power piston magnet plug inside a solenoid output coil to generate the small amount of armature current. Gotoluc has core saturation as an obstacle, Gary's generator does not share this limitation.
So? Are you... or Wesley Gary... using this device for anything? Is anyone, anywhere?
This is what Gary's generator looked like from the top. One end of an armature between the two poles of a horseshoe magnet, and a DPDT current reversing switch. The power the armature places on it's fulcrum is proportional to the horseshoe strength per milli watt. Notice the gear that turns the oscillation into rotary motion.
Additional magnets attached to the horseshoe will increase the torque and speed of the fly wheel. At what point will the magnet strength reach OU?