Greetings to all members
I am a newbie to this forum and a newbie to the area of circuits. Recently I came across to the book of P. Kelly "a practical guide to free energy devices" and I was very excited so I decided to begin to experiment first with the joule thief circuit.
I have already created such a circuit that contains
-a resistance of 1k
- a 2n3906 transistor
- a torroid by ring of ferrite with a bifillar cable of 16 turns
- a led Forward Voltage: 1.9 - 2.1 V
- an input of AA 1.5 battery
The circuit operates properly and the led lights as it should. Furthermore when I connect a second led in series, the LEDs continue to light.
Is that an evidence that I have created a JT circuit and I light the LEDs with only a 1.5 AA battery?
If yes then why when I try to measure the output voltage using a 10 code capacitor (0.01nf) the voltmeter shows only 0.3v? (When the input is 1.22v)
What I am doing wrong?
Thank you for you replies
Quote from: lygeas on November 13, 2013, 11:07:16 AM
Greetings to all member
......
What I am doing wrong?
Thank you for you replies
Searching in the net I found that using a diode in series with the capacitor is the proper way to measure the output volts..
Hence, now with the addition of the diode I can confirm the overunity...so I believe that I am on the right direction..
Congratulations on your first JT circuit!
Voltage is not energy, though, and a voltage increase does not mean "overunity" at all. Energy is the important quantity to measure, and power is energy/time (Watts = Joules per second). The JT works by taking the small, constant DC power supplied by the battery, and chopping it up into very short pulses at higher voltage and higher instantaneous power. Your eye "integrates" these pulses so that the LEDs look like they are on constantly... but they are really flashing very rapidly, and in a good JT the LEDs are actually _off_ for most of the time.
The reason your first capacitor didn't charge up is because the energy leaks back out during the "off" parts of the JT cycle. Adding a series diode prevents this reverse leakage and the cap then will eventually charge up to the maximum voltage that your JT can produce. Again... voltage is not energy and mere voltage amplification doesn't mean OU.
Please keep on experimenting, you may stumble on something that other JT builders haven't found yet. And the JT can be very useful in a practical sense. Some people here are even using them for lighting around their homes! I use one as a flashlight myself.
Thank you Tinselkoala for your answer.
The next step is to use a bigger toroid ferrite core in order to measure the effects. I will keep experimenting and if I will get to something I let you know. I am also interested in the joule ringer circuit.
Again thank you for your answer.
a lot of notes on experiments I did with different winding ratios...
http://www.overunity.com/11986/what-i-learned-in-joule-theif-101/#.UokacMS23zE (http://www.overunity.com/11986/what-i-learned-in-joule-theif-101/#.UokacMS23zE)
The size of your core will affect your frequency, but the output per turn will remain about the same.
It takes a longer time to build up a field in the toroid, and then inducing directly into the other winding, which causes the transistor to close, and all the magnetic flux in the toroid to stop having a current supporting it, so it falls out into the windings.
that's how I interpret it anyway.
Quote from: d3x0r on November 17, 2013, 02:39:16 PM
a lot of notes on experiments I did with different winding ratios...
http://www.overunity.com/11986/what-i-learned-in-joule-theif-101/#.UokacMS23zE (http://www.overunity.com/11986/what-i-learned-in-joule-theif-101/#.UokacMS23zE)
The size of your core will affect your frequency, but the output per turn will remain about the same.
It takes a longer time to build up a field in the toroid, and then inducing directly into the other winding, which causes the transistor to close, and all the magnetic flux in the toroid to stop having a current supporting it, so it falls out into the windings.
that's how I interpret it anyway.
Dear d3x0r, I ve read your topic and I will try to remember the following
"Fewer windings on the coil connected to the collector increases the overall frequency, fewer windings on the coil connected to the base shortens the length of the pulse generated, but decreases the overall frequency
Frequency depends on toroid size, a larger toroid will be a lower frequency"
Thank you for your reply
Something to stimulate your quest:
(note: no toroid, a single AAA battery and _six_ 90-volt NE-2 neons in series.)
(note2: the components on this side of the battery comprise a wireless power receiver but are not used in this photo, it is running off the depleted AAA battery alone.)
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 17, 2013, 05:44:43 PM
Something to stimulate your quest:
(note: no toroid, a single AAA battery and _six_ 90-volt NE-2 neons in series.)
(note2: the components on this side of the battery comprise a wireless power receiver but are not used in this photo, it is running off the depleted AAA battery alone.)
Cool circuit Tinsel. I can see on the left of the neons something like a coil. Is that right?
. What are your measures? (mA, volts)
Quote from: lygeas on November 19, 2013, 05:22:13 PM
Cool circuit Tinsel. I can see on the left of the neons something like a coil. Is that right?
. What are your measures? (mA, volts)
The inductor is a thing I salvaged from a large CRT television set chassis. It was originally wound with just one winding, around 300 turns (estimated) of fine wire, and measured 10 mH on several of my measurement systems. I wrapped a layer of cloth tape over that winding and then put on 30 turns of heavier wire over that, in two layers. Every TV I've dissected has a similar inductor in it, most of the time smaller in size and sometimes including a biasing magnet in the structure. (Many small inductors of this type use magnets in the cores as a way of "cheating" and getting more inductance in a smaller package.) Try with and without a magnet. This inductor was originally hidden inside a white plastic box housing on the TV circuit board.
The output voltage, with no load, goes over 800 volts peak. The circuit produces very short-duration spikes. The circuit works with an input voltage down to a bit less than 1 volt from the AAA battery. Using the wireless receiver, it gets more input voltage than that and the neons get really bright. It doesn't light the neons unless the diode is across the output in the orientation shown. The variable gate trimpot resistor needs to be carefully tuned, and also tweaked a bit for max brightness as the supply voltage changes. The heatsink on the 2n3055 transistor is just for show, I call it a "jason mask". Not all 2n3055s will work, for some reason; some are better at handling the HV spikes than others, I guess. I don't know what the current demand is but the battery lasts a long time.
The circuit is an ordinary basic JT circuit with the addition of the rectifier diode across the output. Here's the schematic and a scopeshot of the output spikes:
By the way, I got to that point by sort of "random" experimentation with the diode and the inductor, based on what I learned from the "JT Pros" like Pirate and Jeanna and the other experimenters in the various JT threads. I learned about JTs really late in the game and my only contribution to what they've discovered is the use of the neons instead of LEDs. So please keep experimenting, trying your own ideas and variations, while also checking out what has gone before, in the different JT threads here.
@TK
Thank you for your replies and the circuit you posted. I have to admit that it is a bit complicated for me at this point of time-but I keep it in mind because its very interesting.
Trying to understand the joule ringer, I ve made another circuit that when using a capacitor I measure almost 20v and-when I measure it as open (from led to negative see attached photos) I have only 12v. I believe that the appropriate way is using the capacitor and not the second one.
I wanted with this circuit to create a high voltage JT. I will try it with a bigger torroid to see what measures I will have.
I hope to be able in near future to light a cfl lamp (instead of the led now) with a similar type of circuit.
High voltage Joule thief...
This is best done adding another winding of a lot of turns... if you try and do it with the drive you'll exceed the voltage of the driving transistor.
Quote from: d3x0r on November 24, 2013, 05:51:01 PM
High voltage Joule thief...
This is best done adding another winding of a lot of turns... if you try and do it with the drive you'll exceed the voltage of the driving transistor.
Dear d3x0r
Do you mean to add another winding to the secondary coil? if i use a 2n3055 transistor will I be ok?
Thank you
I dont understand what happened with the photos that i tried to upload.I will retry.
Quote from: lygeas on November 25, 2013, 02:40:04 PM
Dear d3x0r
Do you mean to add another winding to the secondary coil? if i use a 2n3055 transistor will I be ok?
Thank you
I dont understand what happened with the photos that i tried to upload.I will retry.
I don't understand what's happening in the phtotos either :)
so on a joule theif normal, you have 2 common windings to power, 1 to the base and one to the collector/source.
to get high voltage, add another winding of a lot more turns than either prior winding.
Quote from: d3x0r on November 25, 2013, 07:48:02 PM
I don't understand what's happening in the phtotos either :)
so on a joule theif normal, you have 2 common windings to power, 1 to the base and one to the collector/source.
to get high voltage, add another winding of a lot more turns than either prior winding.
Ok you have a point. \
I am uploading a schematic in order to clear this out. Please see attached photos.
I measure the output by substituting the led with a radial electrolitic capacitor 10mf 25v. This gives me almost 20v.
The 12v are when i measure from the led direct to the negative
RIght; so the capacitor is charged 1/2 to positive and 1/2 to negative... nothing wrong with that really; nor advantageous from what I see. My slightly more complex setup gets 80V at +40 and -40 from ground... and 80 across the cap
Quote from: d3x0r on November 26, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
RIght; so the capacitor is charged 1/2 to positive and 1/2 to negative... nothing wrong with that really; nor advantageous from what I see. My slightly more complex setup gets 80V at +40 and -40 from ground... and 80 across the cap
Dear d3x0r,
Do you mind to explain further your setup because I am interested in increasing the output voltage of my circuit?
Thank you
well I'm using rodin coils and a mazzilli now...
Lasersaber made a fancy high voltage joule theif transformer... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVWFlpRmLkE) but it's really just about making a LOT of windings for the secondary.
I broke his transformer down to simple windings, and ran multiple equal length strands and tied them together.... if you run 16 strands, use 1 for the base, (1 for the noconnect (optonal)), 2 for the collector and the remaining tied together should get you a few hundred volts....
I think the 16 strands were wound 30-40 times through the toroid....
which seems to only be a 13:2 ratio for the drive to output... but because it's a rapid collapse of the field when the transistor turns off it ends up being fairly high.
Mind you you can't reach 1000V... because the current just isn't enough... and even at 100 you'll be at 1/100 of the amps you put in, which is already in milliamps.
It won't make a very good taser, just a tingle