Hi, I completed the fabrication of a test fixture. I am using ratcheting box ends to form weighted pendulums that will only swing in one direction. So on one side of the wheel the weight will be a pendulum and move toward the axle and on the other side it will extend and form a weighted lever arm. Basically the system finds equilibrium and stops. I am adding ramps with magnet rails to extend the weights to form the lever arm.
Short video of manual operation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33-9oeNjLs&feature=youtu.be
The pull force required to extend the weight to the end of the ramp is < 5 pounds. Suggestions for the magnet rails are welcome.
Here's a suggestion.
Lock down all moving parts except the main axle/wheel. Then apply a known turning force to start the apparatus and time how long it takes to coast to a stop. Call this the "baseline rundown".
Now free up all moving parts so that they move according to your plan. Apply the same known turning force as you applied in Part 1. Time how long it takes to coast to a stop. Call this an "experimental trial".
Do each condition ten times or so and get average times for each condition.
Compare the average Experimental Trial rundown time with the average Baseline Rundown time. Which is greater? Does it help, or hurt, to have moving stuff on your wheel?
Once you have a solid Baseline Rundown time, you can now tell if any of your alterations or changes or additions are actually _improvements_ or not, by repeating trials, using the known starting force each time.
You can generate the repeatable starting force by, for example, wrapping a string around the axle or the periphery of the main wheel, having a weight on the string end, and letting the weight fall a known distance, pulling the string to rotate the wheel. The energy imparted by the descending weight will be mgh: m is the mass in kilograms, g is the acceleration due to gravity 9.81 m/sec2, and h is the distance through which the weight falls while pulling the wheel by the string. There are other ways as well, to inject a known and repeatable starting impulse to the wheel.
So you are injecting a known energy value mgh each time. The wheel will turn for more time, or less time, depending on alterations and what is moving. If you ever get an Experimental Trial series of rundown times that is _less_ than the baseline rundown, you will then know _for sure_ that your improvement or alteration is actually helping rather than hurting.
You can also buy excellent and low-cost "one way bearings" to replace your lossy ratchets, at the local RC Helicopter supply store.
Hi, thanks for the input. The configuration I was trying proved to have to many problems.
project updates
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDmv59p1XkA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp3-UDY7VNM&feature=gp-n-y&google_comment_id=z12ku1trbtjtinm4x04chpwqxvrkth44x5o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SbqR6BVDsg&feature=youtu.be
Hi, moving forward.
http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28036&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=2e31e7bb0af645c48c6e7b3eb28ec6fb (http://gallery.anotherpower.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=28036&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=2e31e7bb0af645c48c6e7b3eb28ec6fb)
PMA installed, it will now function as a manually operated gravity assisted electric generator. AC 3 phase radial flux PMA.
Hi, I identified the problem areas and determined the design is becoming to complicated to fabricate. I found a similar design to the William F. Skinner device and started fabrication.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hjyucX4Pk8&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hjyucX4Pk8&feature=youtu.be)
I have to finish drive train and gearbox than I will post results when available. It is much easier to fabricate and still uses gravity and a mechanical assist to operate.
burit0017
nice work on the William F Skinner device approach. I am keeping an eye on your progress.
Alan
I did a simple test today. I took all the weights off and started the motor. The tilt plate just moved up and down and did not rotate. The output shaft is definitely powered by the weights falling toward the the center of gravity. No weights on the tilt plate, no rotation at the output shaft.
I still have to fabricate a few more parts to connect the PMA. It should be a few more days.
Hi, the PMA is mounted. I still have to complete the wiring, than I can test and post results.
Hi, I did a manual test today with really poor results. Based on what I experienced I see no reason to continue this project. My analysis of how this configuration should work is wrong. I had 60 pounds on the tilt and there was no benefit, in fact it made it was more difficult to turn. I adjusted all the possible parameters that I could and my conclusion is there no way a small electric motor will make it operate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zayyIlqhAkU&feature=youtu.be
Hi, thanks for the info. I will try your suggestions. I will post results if I find any improvements.
Have in mind that any lock-ups, and other movenents in the pendulums will require some sort of torque, counter torque, lost and gained energy to orientate.
Isolate every weight movements in this wheel, and analyze them separately. Do you see any reason why these movements separately, or the gravity wheel as a whole, should gain energy for each revolution by itself then?
The basic and fundamental workings of a "gravity wheel" is that all the weights that is put into the wheel, no matter how they orient themself during one revolution, are limited within a given and "fixed" change in altitude from ground.
As we all know, a given weight at a given altitude carries potential energy which is a product of those two.
As the weights in a "gravity wheel" never change their most and least potential energy, there cannot be possible to harvest excess energy - since the excess energy is zero.
Vidar
Quote from: webby1 on November 02, 2014, 08:39:28 AM
It is not about making excess energy,, it is all about using the energy as it is constantly cycled within the system,, you pump it up and that it is your input, Then the system is moving it around and that has work involved and that is what you get to get in the middle of.
Ok, I see, but wouldn't it be easier to use one simple flywheel with lossless bearings?
Not maybe. You do never get equal or more energy out than you put in. If you in addition put lots of moving parts on that wheel, it will just stop sooner due to more friction.
Vidar
Lossless bearings aren't good enough. You need _negative friction_ bearings.
Around here, we call them "motors".
http://youtu.be/lok3KUMT7ZU
Started testing new configuration. Working on connecting the PMA.
Quote from: burnit0017 on November 10, 2014, 05:13:14 AM
http://youtu.be/lok3KUMT7ZU (http://youtu.be/lok3KUMT7ZU)
Started testing new configuration. Working on connecting the PMA.
Hmmm - it stops! Surprising :-)
Quote from: TinselKoala on November 08, 2014, 04:57:44 PM
Lossless bearings aren't good enough. You need _negative friction_ bearings.
Around here, we call them "motors".
Haha :-)
http://youtu.be/2ZzfK-mvd2Q
Project update. This is gravity assisted motor project. It will always require power at the input. It is a experiment to determine if it is possible to use mechanical advantage and gravity to generate more at the output than at the input. I see it as two different machines. The first machine will use a small electric motor to use mechanical advantage to tilt the weight plate. As the plate tilts it changes the center of gravity and the weights fall toward the rotating; always changing; center of gravity. More weights, more torque. The longer the center shaft, the more mechanical advantage.
I still have to connect the PMA, then I can post results.
Quote from: burnit0017 on November 10, 2014, 05:43:19 PM
http://youtu.be/2ZzfK-mvd2Q (http://youtu.be/2ZzfK-mvd2Q)
Project update. This is gravity assisted motor project. It will always require power at the input. It is a experiment to determine if it is possible to use mechanical advantage and gravity to generate more at the output than at the input. I see it as two different machines. The first machine will use a small electric motor to use mechanical advantage to tilt the weight plate. As the plate tilts it changes the center of gravity and the weights fall toward the rotating; always changing; center of gravity. More weights, more torque. The longer the center shaft, the more mechanical advantage.
I still have to connect the PMA, then I can post results.
Have in mind that gravity does not dissapear in the periods you should need that to happen. Gravity will pull the weights towards ground all the time, with equal force at any time. The energy you spend on the machine, and what you get out will allways be accounted for. It will end up in zero total energy, minus loss. Anything that happens in that machine happens for a reason. There are no spooky energy sources that will assist anything.
All that counts is altitude and mass. If it's spinning around in any fashion does not change the different altitudes these weights do have at any given time. As long the headroom you have in altitude doesn't change, you will never be able to "charge" the machine with greater potential energy than available within max and min altitude.
So truely, there is no such as overbalance in this machine - even if it appears to be.
Vidar
Hi, thanks for the info. Can you explain how a lever works?
Gravity will pull the weights towards ground all the time, with equal force at any time
;)And how the gyroscope which has unusual gravitational properties?
Quote from: burnit0017 on November 11, 2014, 07:04:19 AM
Hi, thanks for the info. Can you explain how a lever works?
What do you mean? A lever is a lever. A mass that is lifted a given distance in altitude, it does not matter how you do it. The energy you put into the lifting process is the same if you lift it directly or using pulleys, levers or what not. Don't confuse force with energy. Energy is a product of force and distance.
Vidar
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/torque.html
Hi, Direction of the rotation will be in the of direction of higher torque. The weights falling are the real input. As the weights fall toward the rotating center of gravity they will produce a total torque at the output. A DC Buck circuit with a variable duty cycle can be adjusted to limit the load to less than the total output torque. All motors operate at a loss. I have to fabricate a few more parts than I can test and post results.
Quote from: burnit0017 on November 12, 2014, 04:54:11 AM
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/torque.html (http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/torque.html)
Hi, Direction of the rotation will be in the of direction of higher torque. The weights falling are the real input. As the weights fall toward the rotating center of gravity they will produce a total torque at the output. A DC Buck circuit with a variable duty cycle can be adjusted to limit the load to less than the total output torque. All motors operate at a loss. I have to fabricate a few more parts than I can test and post results.
When the weights has reached highest torque, what happens next? At some point these weights must repeat the cycle and pass a point with least torque. From where do they get the input to repeat the cycle with even more energy?
Torque isn't all. Examine at what angular velocity the mass has at a given torque.
As long you use gravity to "gain" torque, and the mass is unchanged, the complete cycle will allways end up in loss. There is no way around this - really.
Vidar
Hi, the weights always fall toward the center of gravity but they never reach it because a small motor will always be turning the center shaft. I have to fabricate a few more parts then I can post results. The video will better explain the operation of the device. Good or bad I will post the results.
Hi, thanks. It seems to balance out the system. I have been viewing the Skinner black and white movie clip for over a year. Part of what I am looking at looks like a spoof. Other parts I am just starting to understand. Basically what I am fabricating is a simpler version to the Skinner device. It is great to find a few with a greater understanding of physics, I can use all the help I can get. If it works greats, if it does not work then we can all understand why. ;D
http://youtu.be/PHPId8bDrhQ
Hi, a quick video update. I am starting to understand all the parameters better. I have to install a longer center shaft. Add more weights. Make the frame strong. Stop the grinding noise. ;D
Version 3 has limitations, working on version 4.
http://youtu.be/vBnzDB6-brg
Happy Holiday 8)
http://youtu.be/ul_sjGy6GRM
Slow self start
Adding pulse motor and down sizing test fixture.
http://youtu.be/kH6eS4GBzFY
Hi, I completed the fabrication of the new test pulse fixture.
The pulse motor is triggered every 180 degrees, with a 20 pound flywheel and at 18 volt trigger max RPM is about 150. Added first gravity assisted component and RPM's drops to about 50. I will continue to test different variations. Searching for configuration to increase RPM's without increasing the input voltage. Suggestions welcome.
Pulse motor is driving a PMA and I will be adding a MPPT circuit to reduce the Lenz effect.
Quote from: webby1 on November 13, 2014, 07:59:31 AM
I like the twist you have added :)
Low-Q,, you do understand that by LAW a closed system is 100% efficient and that anything that is not 100% efficient is NOT closed,, right?? Another thing is, why keep on how far in the vertical plane the weights move?? it is not how far they move in the vertical plane it is in the path they take while they are moving.
I don't understand that, because it's not really true. Nothing is 100% efficient. I mean, energy does not disappear, but not all energy spent is useful to what purpose we need it for at the end.
If we are fighting against gravity, all that counts is the potential energy any given weight has at any given hight (Or altitude if you prefer).
The path isn't important. You can move an object around the globe and slightly increasing altitude by one meter after 40 000 km travel. The potential energy added to that object depends on its weight and that one meter.
Vidar
And of course if the weight is then lowered in another part of the cycle, then the GPE gain gets surrendered. All these contraptions that go round and round without performing useful external work are ornaments.
https://youtu.be/VO7gV4xV0U4 (https://youtu.be/VO7gV4xV0U4)
https://youtu.be/URapJBQIPRw (https://youtu.be/URapJBQIPRw)
project update, working on improving the electromagnet