https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U113LnY2zg4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U113LnY2zg4)
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It looks like some people are doing the same thing with their cars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrsFYMP4BaE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrsFYMP4BaE)
.
And we could always invite Bill here to share his personal experiences
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8K7Vomo88c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8K7Vomo88c)
Haven't spoken to him in a while ,however I could change that if some here commit to
experiments
Edit Note : as a matter of fact ...I just put him on the calender for a call.
respectfully
ChetKremens@gmail.com
Use your brain: does 1 pound of gas make more heat than 2 pounds? That video suggests so. Perfect food for brainless.
That's not even a matter of an engine calibration; rather a proper fuel pump.
My second look at the video suggests that in fact that guy does not even claim that's much more efficient; just another way of fueling.
Why is this an "amazing idea"? By the time fuel gets into the cylinders of any gasoline 4-cycle ICE it is already vaporized by the heat of the engine. The intake valves are cooled by contact with the cylinder head and by the fuel vapor-air mixture flowing over them. Only in direct-cylinder injection engines like Diesels can "liquid" fuel reach the cylinders themselves, and even then it is in a fine mist that is quickly turned to vapor by the heat of the cylinder . "Fuel injected" aircraft engines have the injectors outside the cylinders proper, spraying into the induction manifold near the _hot_ intake valves. My old Chevy uses "throttle body injection" where liquid fuel is sprayed onto the throttle plate in a thing that looks like (and is) a very simple carburetor body with electronic sensors. By the time the fuel gets to the cylinders it is completely vaporized, or there is something wrong. Even in old style carburetted engines the fuel does not enter the cylinder as a liquid but as a thoroughly mixed fuel-air vapor.
Here's THE PATENT for a HIGH MILEAGE Vapor Carburetor:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat4030457.pdf (http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat4030457.pdf)
No different to using LPG really. The generator here could run too lean under a heavy load - not good.
Quote from: FatBird on February 03, 2015, 07:29:48 PM
Here's THE PATENT for a HIGH MILEAGE Vapor Carburetor:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat4030457.pdf (http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat4030457.pdf)
How many miles were traveled with this kind of carb?
Here is a guy who has done a lot of testing and Gets 211 MPG.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrsFYMP4BaE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrsFYMP4BaE)
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Here is an opel with 376 miles the gallon, although modified.
Remember this was in 1973 ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtR5WjwocBI
http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/07/vapor-fuel-systems-100-200-mpg-1000-mpg-shell-research-1970s-tom-ogle-strikes-back/
http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/07/vapor-fuel-systems-100-200-mpg-1000-mpg-shell-research-1970s-tom-ogle-strikes-back/ (http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/07/vapor-fuel-systems-100-200-mpg-1000-mpg-shell-research-1970s-tom-ogle-strikes-back/)
.
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Are there any active builders/experimenters who have duplicated this "vapor" project on their own vehicle(s)?
I'm someone who could benefit greatly from this, IF it does actually work . . . . :-\
truesearch
Just as I said before: "just another fueling system", and it's known probably since 30's of 20th century. Its secret is that it provides clean fuel stripped of residual water and other impurities by relatively simple solution. Water and impurities found in most of the fuel sources act by choking the engine systems and thus often quite severely depriving its efficiency/performance.
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 03, 2015, 07:18:27 PM
Why is this an "amazing idea"? By the time fuel gets into the cylinders of any gasoline 4-cycle ICE it is already vaporized by the heat of the engine. The intake valves are cooled by contact with the cylinder head and by the fuel vapor-air mixture flowing over them. Only in direct-cylinder injection engines like Diesels can "liquid" fuel reach the cylinders themselves, and even then it is in a fine mist that is quickly turned to vapor by the heat of the cylinder . "Fuel injected" aircraft engines have the injectors outside the cylinders proper, spraying into the induction manifold near the _hot_ intake valves. My old Chevy uses "throttle body injection" where liquid fuel is sprayed onto the throttle plate in a thing that looks like (and is) a very simple carburetor body with electronic sensors. By the time the fuel gets to the cylinders it is completely vaporized, or there is something wrong. Even in old style carburetted engines the fuel does not enter the cylinder as a liquid but as a thoroughly mixed fuel-air vapor.
Not true. A lot of gas reaches the cylinders as liquid and is used to some extent as lubrication but is a wasteful lube. I'm not saying it is ounces of liquid but far from being fully vaporized.
Quote from: truesearch on February 05, 2015, 08:25:38 AM
Are there any active builders/experimenters who have duplicated this "vapor" project on their own vehicle(s)?
I'm someone who could benefit greatly from this, IF it does actually work . . . . :-\
truesearch
I had a 460 cubic inch V8 in a 14000 pound vehicle which had the fuel pump go out (no fuel output at all at the injectors feed line). I started it with nothing but vapor in a plastic container using the bubbler method. It worked to move the vehicle up a slight hill but with that small setup it didn't have enough power to run that big V8 down the road at any decent speed. It worked fine though to get it moved where I needed it.
@e2matrix:
Glad you had some success using the vapor method with that big-block (Ford 460?) :) I own both a 360 (Ford FE block) which has a carburetor and also a 5.4 Triton (port injected).
Regardless, what do you mean "bubbler-method"? I'd like to try something to improve efficiency, but I don't wanna get fried with a flash-back. . .
truesearch
Interestingly, googling "vapor gas systems fraud" brings some positive info on this subject in the net, comparing just "vapor gas systems".
I did a lot with vapor systems but not lately. I made a pickle jar carburetor where you could
see the white vapor fog. It ran 30% longer than the stock carb on a lawnmower. And you could not smell obnoxious fumes - it was clean because it all burned. Then I was asked to run coleman fuel and that ran double the stock carb run time.
The carb had a tube down into the bottom of the jar with several small holes drilled
into the bottom and then a tube out the top. But the vapor is too strong and has to
be mixed with air to fire. If you cut the air back too much it will stop running.
I never put it on a vehicle because its hard to get a good fuel level float/switch under
vacuum.
The truth is we could all be saving 30% fuel or more with simple vapor carbs and also
no catalytic converter would be required to burn the liquid that did not burn.
Another good idea is a longer stroke for a longer burn time because a 1930s car could
pass the pollution test where the 70s car did not with the cat converter.
Norman
@ norman6538
Thank you for sharing that info. VERY FEW of us know that vehicles need catalytic converters because present day engines are NOT burning the
fuel completely. Almost NOBODY knows that this is done ON PURPOSE by the manufacturers! Using a Vapor system would fix that right away.
BELOW IS AN OLD 2005 POST FROM SM TO Mr Lindsay M----- that well illustrates who is behind the mileage suppression.
===========================================================================================
I would disagree with you about one point. Being that I believe there to be a concerted effort to delay any potential technology entering the market place
by those who my be adversely affected. My first invention was a Highbred electric automobile way back in 1978. I knew that the automotive heat stroke engine
was unbelievably inefficient. Calculations told me that it only took about 15 horsepower to keep a vehicle on the highway at 60 mph but we needed 40 hp or more
to accelerate the vehicle. To accelerate it well we needed 100 HP. So if we design the automobile with a large hp engine to accelerate the vehicle adequately we
waste a great deal of energy when the large heat pump engine is only required to produce 15 hp to cruise at 60 mph on the highway.
My solution was to find the smallest and most efficient engine I could possibly find and couple it to a storage system which could be used for and to provide for
acceleration to cruising speeds.. The idea was simple and elegant at the same time. I found my first experiments very encouraging. I took a 20 hp 4 stroke gasoline
engine coupled to a 48 volt generator coupled to two banks of storage batteries coupled to a 48 volt aircraft starter motor connected to the transmission of a
ford Fairmont automobile.
The Ford worked well. It did not have blazing acceleration but was definitely adequate. You could drive it around town all day and on the highway at 60 MPH it
would burn 1 gallon of fuel for every 50 miles you traveled. That is very good for a 3800 Lb. Ford at 60 MPH which on it's best day would have only achieved
about 18 mpg. I had proven my idea would work so I set out to refine it. I needed a more efficient primover and I needed a more efficient electrical
conversion system. I found a wonderful 2-stroke gasoline engine that would put out 25 hp on one gallon for 3.5 hours. I then coupled that engine to 4- twelve volt
automotive alternators run in series into 4-12 volt banks of batteries. Now I had a super efficient gasoline engine with a very efficient electric energy conversion system.
The car now accelerated very well using the extra power stored in the battery banks and cruised at 65 MPH using 18 HP and leaving an extra 5 to 7 HP output from the
25 hp Gasoline engine to keep the batteries charged up to capacity for acceleration when necessary. I added a governor to control the gasoline engine to throttle back
when necessary and save fuel. You could drive it over town and high way all day. It worked wonderfully and achieved 320 MPG when driven on a trip from Los Angeles
to Las Vegas Nevada, a distance of several hundred miles. The car was a great success publicly and I invited Chrysler, Ford and General Moters to come to see the car.
They sent representatives to see the vehicle, but I was surprised because they did not seem very impressed at all. I thought I had discovered the solution to the
energy crises and they didn't even want to study the car I built. They were polite and they all asked me if I wanted to work for their companies but none of them
were excited at all. I couldn't understand why until I met a very impressive fellow named Delorian. Yes the ex-president of Ford who tried to manufacture the Delorian
motor car in Ireland. After visiting with him and meeting his chief engineer, Zora Duntoff, the father of the Corvette, I learned that the automotive companies already
knew how to make Highbred automobiles and so did not need my design! This was back in the 1970's and they are just now coming out with highbred electric
automobiles for sale to the public.
I find it terrible that these new automobiles are only getting 50 MPG! That was my first lesson in discovering what I thought was a break through in technologies.
When I asked Mr Delorian and Mr. Duntoff why they were not making automobiles that could get 100 MPG they told me that it involved complicated economic issues
involving the oil industry and the world economic system. And so here we are today. Obviously things haven't changed much.
I told you about all this so you would have a better idea of my back ground and experiences in the past.
Sincerely,
SM
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FatBird, thanks for that excellent post about (2005 POST FROM SM TO Mr Lindsay M----)
which agrees with many other experiences. And then there is the media that majors
in trivia ( under inflated footballs ) and ignores the really big issues.
I just can't believe that we live in such a modern society that is so corrupt in so many
ways - even to the point that some folks are not allowed to catch the rain water that
drops on their property. Remember GM got slapped on their wrists for buying up all the
streetcars and replacing them with buses that they sold.
And with the information potential of the internet this mpg thing should have been
solved 10 years ago.
I have felt that a great place to do something is with the lawn mower engine because
it doesn't get an annual physical inspection.
Think of all the "green" people who would feel good if they had a low pollution lawn mower.
Think how much better we'd all be if we could just raise the efficiency of the Internal combustion engine
maybe 30% or more than it is now.
So now - where to from here?
Norman
. . . double post . . .
Very interesting history. . . .
I'm with @Norman:
QuoteSo now - where to from here?
I believe if we had easy-to-follow clear plans in a step-by-step format that many of us would be willing to give something a try and report back our results. . .
truesearch
Oil Company Confession:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR9CeCiVrHw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR9CeCiVrHw)
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