A World Leader must act as a "Fair Trade Advocate"; Step forward and make a case before the member nations of the WTO, to limit the continued below cost sales of crude oil on the World Market by the "Monopoly Cartel" led by Saudi Arabia. All the importing nations need to agree to raise a tariff on the below cost oil to keep the Peace. Russia just threatened to help Iran invade Saudi Arabia, as an "Asymetrical Counter Attack" against Barack Obama's proposed lethal aid to Kiev. Russia has an arsenal of neuton bombs which might be used to irradiate Saudi Arabia's vast underground oil reserves. The "Preditory Pricing" of crude oil is anti competitive and internationally destabilizing. Nearly all the WTO members have protectionist anti-trust legislation on their books at home, on the national level, to prohibit this kind of unfair exploitation.
I am not sure I understand this. My take is that the Saudis are artificially lowering the price of oil to put out of business, the US companies that have now developed new ways to get more oil that were not cost-effective at the higher prices. Spokesmen for these companies have said that, they have vast reserves and...will just close down some of them until the price goes back up.
Russia, on the other hand, is reeling from this. Too bad. I see this as nothing more than the free market making adjustments. If we (The US) were oil and energy independent, then, this would not matter at all. This is why we need to drill baby drill. Also, we need to develop real solar and wind and other energy producing technologies that really work at market prices without being subsidized by taxpayer dollars.
Am I missing something here?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2015, 12:48:03 AM
I am not sure I understand this. My take is that the Saudis are artificially lowering the price of oil to put out of business, the US companies that have now developed new ways to get more oil that were not cost-effective at the higher prices. Spokesmen for these companies have said that, they have vast reserves and...will just close down some of them until the price goes back up.
Russia, on the other hand, is reeling from this. Too bad. I see this as nothing more than the free market making adjustments. If we (The US) were oil and energy independent, then, this would not matter at all. This is why we need to drill baby drill. Also, we need to develop real solar and wind and other energy producing technologies that really work at market prices without being subsidized by taxpayer dollars.
Am I missing something here?
Bill
@Pirate88179,
Yea, WW III.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2015, 01:59:03 AM
Quite possibly.
Bill
Also, we come up the loser because North Korea will time an attack on the South to pit us against China simultainiously. This means our combined allied infantry strength will be out numbered 3 to 1 on enemy ground. The day Saudi Arabia comes under attack, the American Dollar will switch places with the Russian Ruble as the currency of decreasing value. Russia, China, Iran and North Korea together can exhaust America, along with all her allies, in a two front trench war of attrition. Timely Statecraft can avert this kind of catastrophy.
Here's a video of the "Tsar Bomba" the largest thermonuclear weapon ever detonated. The mushroom cloud reaches a height 8 times the height of Mt. Everest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3pqSYAuy-A
The reason I show this is to point out that the "Particulate Matter" thrown into the stratosphere from this Russian H bomb test caused a measurable reduction in the Global food harvest. It would only take a few dozen of these kinds of bomb explosions to cause a "World Wide Famine" of total extinction magnitude. This is to remind anyone of the lack of feasability of resorting to this kind of weapon to offset an enemy numerical ground advantge.
The need for imediate mitigatory diplomacy is urgent at this time in History.
The Moscow Times reported Monday that if the U.S. supplied arms to Ukraine, it would be viewed as an act of war. That action would not only increase the tension in the region, it would also force the Kremlin to "respond asymmetrically against Washington or its allies on other fronts," the publication reported.
"We can also encourage Iran, or even back Iran in a fight — a military operation — with Saudi Arabia, so then the prices for oil will skyrocket," the source said.
Quote from: synchro1 on February 14, 2015, 02:13:26 PM
Here's a video of the "Tsar Bomba" the largest thermonuclear weapon ever detonated. The mushroom cloud reaches a height 8 times the height of Mt. Everest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3pqSYAuy-A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3pqSYAuy-A)
The reason I show this is to point out that the "Particulate Matter" thrown into the stratosphere from this Russian H bomb test caused a measurable reduction in the Global food harvest. It would only take a few dozen of these kinds of bomb explosions to cause a "World Wide Famine" of total extinction magnitude. This is to remind anyone of the lack of feasability of resorting to this kind of weapon to offset an enemy numerical ground advantge.
The need for imediate mitigatory diplomacy is urgent at this time in History.
The Moscow Times reported Monday that if the U.S. supplied arms to Ukraine, it would be viewed as an act of war. That action would not only increase the tension in the region, it would also force the Kremlin to "respond asymmetrically against Washington or its allies on other fronts," the publication reported.
"We can also encourage Iran, or even back Iran in a fight — a military operation — with Saudi Arabia, so then the prices for oil will skyrocket," the source said.
It won't be much of a fight. Our idiot "leader" has eliminated over 80% of our nukes. I think we have some fireworks left though...
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2015, 03:09:57 PM
It won't be much of a fight. Our idiot "leader" has eliminated over 80% of our nukes. I think we have some fireworks left though...
Bill
Here's a breakdown from 2014. Russia has a 10 to 1 advantage in the "Cruise Missile" catagory warhead: It makes no sense what-so-ever to allow Saudi Arabia to punish Russia to the point of getting attacked by them with Iran, ostensibly just to topple Assad in Syria. That turns into a real "Bummer" for America in the final analysis!
Here's a video of a blast claimed to be low yield "Nuclear" by Kiev in the Ukraine Sunday. Other reports surmise it was a chemical plant. Powerful enough to break this window pane 6 kilometers from the blast. Some reports say it was Ukrainian army artillery fire hitting an ammunition depot held by the rebel Donetsk People's Republic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQ5EPnSE_4#t=17
This video appears to show a signature "Mushroom Cloud":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lb1TAMTZv8\
Youtube comment from Michael Thomas:
"It was a Tactical Nuke. This is another cover up story. If there was a munitions plant or a warehouse storing explosives, where is the BEFORE PICTURE OF IT. The place I am sure had a name and address??? Where is all that. Where are the local interviews from residents about this so called place? OH I am sure we should be able to see it on Google Earth right? AHHH, because it didn't exist. It was a tactical nuke because it BROKE GLASS WINDOWS for 15 miles in every direction. No factory blowing up does that, END OF STORY, a nuke".
This will have been the first use of a nuclear weapon in battle since Nagasaki on August 9th 1945 if true! 70 years ago this August!
Well, if this is all true, then we have a real problem when it comes to free energy, dont we?
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on February 14, 2015, 06:33:53 PM
Well, if this is all true, then we have a real problem when it comes to free energy, dont we?
Mags
@Magluvin,
Free energy would act as a panacea for this kind of problem by removing excessive power from the special interest elite and turning it over to the people; Away from the violent schism troglodytes and more evenly divided among the broader masses content to be warm, clean and filled with hot food.
FORT CARSON, Colo., Feb. 15 (UPI) --
"A brigade of more than 4,000 soldiers from Fort Carson, Colo., will be deployed to Kuwait to create the largest U.S. ground force currently in the Middle East. The brigade is equipped with tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles and has been training for more than a year. Many of the soldiers are seasoned combat veterans of the Iraq war".
Take note of the strategic location of Kuwait between the borders of Iran and Saudi Arabia on the map below:
Looks like they're off to the races again! The U.S wouldn't react this way unless they observed troop movements inside Iran.
Quote from: synchro1 on February 15, 2015, 06:13:18 PM
FORT CARSON, Colo., Feb. 15 (UPI) --
"A brigade of more than 4,000 soldiers from Fort Carson, Colo., will be deployed to Kuwait to create the largest U.S. ground force currently in the Middle East. The brigade is equipped with tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles and has been training for more than a year. Many of the soldiers are seasoned combat veterans of the Iraq war".
Take note of the strategic location of Kuwait between the borders of Iran and Saudi Arabia on the map below:
Looks like they're off to the races again! The U.S wouldn't react this way unless they observed troop movements inside Iran.
This can not be. Obama said..."No boots on the ground..period." What gives?
Bill
Nice way to add support to oil prices!
"Escalating conflicts with Islamic State militants and an attack on an oil pipeline in Libya helped support prices.
Egypt's air force bombed Islamic State targets inside Libya for the first time on Monday, a day after the group released a video appearing to show the beheading of 21 Egyptians there.
Libya's El Sarir oilfield is still unable to pump oil to Hariga port after a pipeline was attacked and set on fire on Saturday'.
The west attacked Iraq to increase supplies at a huge cost to the taxpayer, now it seems they feel it's a good idea to use the same approach to limit it.
Quote from: synchro1 on February 16, 2015, 12:42:33 PM
Nice way to add support to oil prices!
"Escalating conflicts with Islamic State militants and an attack on an oil pipeline in Libya helped support prices.
Egypt's air force bombed Islamic State targets inside Libya for the first time on Monday, a day after the group released a video appearing to show the beheading of 21 Egyptians there.
Libya's El Sarir oilfield is still unable to pump oil to Hariga port after a pipeline was attacked and set on fire on Saturday'.
The west attacked Iraq to increase supplies at a huge cost to the taxpayer, now it seems they feel it's a good idea to use the same approach to limit it.
You should really study history more. The west attacked Iraq because Iraq invaded Kuwait, with whom the US had a treaty to protect them. We (The US) kicked their butts back to Iraq and Iraq signed a peace treaty which was the only reason Schwartzcoff did not go into Baghdad back then. Part of the treaty they signed established a NO FLY zone as part of the agreement. They also said, as part of the agreement, that we could send in nuclear inspectors. They agreed to all of this..in writing.
Then, after over 900 missiles were fired at our planes patrolling the no fly zone, and Iraq having kicked out all inspectors, Bush went to the UN 17 times to get a resolution. 17 times....not once or twice. After finally getting the resolution, we did indeed invade Iraq. Congress all voted for this war effort as well.
So, I disagree with your premise of invading simply to adjust the price of oil. It is not factual.
Picture, after Japan signed the WWII peace agreements and then a few years later, they opened fire on US ships in their harbor. Would you not think that the war would be back on again? Of course it would. This is exactly what happened to Iraq except, Bush took too long (In my opinion) asking Congress and the UN (who the hell is the UN anyway?) for permission.
So you think Iraq shooting at our planes was not a violation of the peace treaty and NOT an act of war? One time would have been enough for me but, we waited until over 900 missiles were fired at our planes.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
You should really study history more. The west attacked Iraq because Iraq invaded Kuwait, with whom the US had a treaty to protect them. We (The US) kicked their butts back to Iraq and Iraq signed a peace treaty which was the only reason Schwartzcoff did not go into Baghdad back then. Part of the treaty they signed established a NO FLY zone as part of the agreement. They also said, as part of the agreement, that we could send in nuclear inspectors. They agreed to all of this..in writing.
Then, after over 900 missiles were fired at our planes patrolling the no fly zone, and Iraq having kicked out all inspectors, Bush went to the UN 17 times to get a resolution. 17 times....not once or twice. After finally getting the resolution, we did indeed invade Iraq. Congress all voted for this war effort as well.
So, I disagree with your premise of invading simply to adjust the price of oil. It is not factual.
Picture, after Japan signed the WWII peace agreements and then a few years later, they opened fire on US ships in their harbor. Would you not think that the war would be back on again? Of course it would. This is exactly what happened to Iraq except, Bush took too long (In my opinion) asking Congress and the UN (who the hell is the UN anyway?) for permission.
So you think Iraq shooting at our planes was not a violation of the peace treaty and NOT an act of war? One time would have been enough for me but, we waited until over 900 missiles were fired at our planes.
Bill
@Pirate88179,
Your account's pretty accurate with the exception of one major feature; Iraq was strapped with an embargo for over a decade, that limited exports to milk for children. The regime change was aimed at eliminating the export embargo quotas. I remember Donald Rumsfeld greedily running his hands over fists forcasting "Windfall" profits.
Quote from: synchro1 on February 16, 2015, 04:20:42 PM
@Pirate88179,
Your account's pretty accurate with the exception of one major feature; Iraq was strapped with an embargo for over a decade, that limited exports to milk for children. The regime change was aimed at eliminating the export embargo quotas. I remember Donald Rumsfeld greedily running his hands over fists forcasting "Windfall" profits.
OK, but wasn't the embargo because he kicked the chemical weapons inspectors out back then? (I am not totally sure of this) I think that was the case. It was a UN embargo and not one made by the US. I know we were trying to initiate a regime change for the good of the region due to Saddam's threats to use chemical weapons...again. (He had recently gassed the Kurds.) This is why I never understood folks that said he had no weapons of mass destruction...he had them because he used them. But, if I remember this correctly, the US sold him those weapons back in the days when he was allied with the US. Another reason we knew he had them. (In retrospect, not a good move)
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 16, 2015, 05:07:54 PM
OK, but wasn't the embargo because he kicked the chemical weapons inspectors out back then? (I am not totally sure of this) I think that was the case. It was a UN embargo and not one made by the US. I know we were trying to initiate a regime change for the good of the region due to Saddam's threats to use chemical weapons...again. (He had recently gassed the Kurds.) This is why I never understood folks that said he had no weapons of mass destruction...he had them because he used them. But, if I remember this correctly, the US sold him those weapons back in the days when he was allied with the US. Another reason we knew he had them. (In retrospect, not a good move)
Bill
@Pirate88179,
Quote from Wikipedia:
"The original stated purposes of the sanctions were to compel Iraq to withdraw from Kuwait, to pay reparations, and to disclose and eliminate any weapons of mass destruction.
"Initially the UN Security Council imposed stringent economic sanctions on Iraq by adopting and enforcing United Nations Security Council Resolution 661. After the end of the 1991 Persian Gulf War, those sanctions were extended and elaborated on, including linkage to removal of weapons of mass destruction (WMD), by Resolution 687. The sanctions banned all trade and financial resources except for medicine and "in humanitarian circumstances" foodstuffs, whose import into Iraq was tightly regulated".
The war was waged largely to free the Iraqi peole of these UN sanctions. My point is that the WTO needs to adopt regulations to control the amount of oil each nation can export and to fix a fair price for it. World trade is in it's infancy. Econoic Darwinisem should be evolved into a civilized format where Law and Order mitigate the B.C. survival of the fittest approach. We need rules to replace the "Law of the Jungle".
Synchro1: '
Here's a video of the "Tsar Bomba" the largest thermonuclear weapon ever detonated. The mushroom cloud reaches a height 8 times the height of Mt. Everest:'
Me: love the videos of that explosion.they actually had originaly wanted to detonate a 100megaton weapon for show but realised the airplane wouldn't be able to escape such a blast.the airplane that did drop tsar bomba only just managed to escape and was alsmost crashed due to drop in air pressure after the blastwave hit em.57megatons tnt.70% of blast was from fusion and 30% from fission
One of those videos I watched of that tsar bomb nuke exploding looked really weird. It developed this double cloud ring that surrounded the blast and moved upward. I can understand a single ring, most blasts I have seen have them...but, I wonder what causes that double ring?
Bill
Pirate:'but, I wonder what causes that double ring?'
Probably reflection of heat waves plus original heatwave causing double condensation of water vapour.usualy these megaton blasts have multiple rings eg castle bravo series.biggest american nuke was 15 megatons and punctured a hole straight through island coral reef a mile wide.bravo was a shock for the scientists because they only expected 6megatons and thus fuckedup a lot of their recording equipment.tsar bomba caused a seismic shockwave to reflect 3 times around the entire globe,gives one an idea of the power.
The definition of "Preditory Pricing" is selling below cost. That's more then $90 a barrel for Saudi Arabia:
"Saudi Arabia requires a price of more than $90 to fund its budget. But it has $726 billion in foreign currency reserves and is betting it can survive for two years with prices of less than $40 a barrel".
The Saudis figure they can withstand low prices for longer than their financially weaker competitors, who will have to cut production first as pumping becomes uneconomical.
"At about $50 a barrel, crude oil prices are down by more than half from their June 2014 peak of $107. They may fall more, perhaps even as low as $10 to $20".
This amounts to naked unfair, anti-competitive monopoly cartel exploitation from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates!
Instead of making an "Anti-Trust" case to the WTO based on established National Precedent and the "Rule of Reason", in a Statesman like fashion; Barack Obama has deployed 4000 men, Abrams tanks and Bradly fighting vehicles from Ft. Carson to Kuwait. Russia has threatened to use Iran and tactical nukes to limit the unfair over production. A war's going to cost America much more then any hardship caused to the victems from the preditory pricing.
Quote from: profitis on February 17, 2015, 03:02:49 PM
Pirate:'but, I wonder what causes that double ring?'
Probably reflection of heat waves plus original heatwave causing double condensation of water vapour.usualy these megaton blasts have multiple rings eg castle bravo series.biggest american nuke was 15 megatons and punctured a hole straight through island coral reef a mile wide.bravo was a shock for the scientists because they only expected 6megatons and thus fuckedup a lot of their recording equipment.tsar bomba caused a seismic shockwave to reflect 3 times around the entire globe,gives one an idea of the power.
Thanks for your explanation. It makes sense...you are probably right. At first, I thought of two almost simultaneous explosions causing it but your reflection idea is a good one. I had just never seen any thing like that before. Holy crap!
Bill
Saudi Arabia is teamed up with Kuwait, Quatar and the UAE to form a preditory pricing monopoly cartel. All four countries have Salafi constitutions that involve 80 lashes for kissing in public along with amputaion, stoning etc.
From todays news:
"Three months after Saudi Arabia made clear it was going to let oil prices keep tumbling, the strategy is showing signs of working.
U.S. drillers are idling rigs at a record pace, gutting investment plans and laying off thousands of workers.
Those steps highlight how the Saudi-led OPEC decision on Nov. 27 to maintain output levels and protect its market share is having the desired effect -- pushing prices down so far that they threaten to curb output in the U.S. and other non-OPEC countries. Saudi Arabia, the most powerful member of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, will maintain that tack when the group next meets in June, according to some of the world's biggest Banks"
"U.S. President Barack Obama apparently is going ahead with his plan for NATO missiles to be placed in Ukraine aimed against Moscow, but found a way to do it that won't violate the warnings by Russia's President Vladimir Putin against Washington's directly supplying those arms to Ukraine".
"On Tuesday, 24 February 2015, in Abu Dhabi, the capital of United Arab Emirates, Poroshenko placed the finishing touches on the purchase of Western, mainly U.S., weapons, via the UAE, from Western firms such as, perhaps, Lockheed, GE, Krupp, Euromissile, etc., which will be paid for by Western taxpayers, via IMF 'loans' to Ukraine, which money comes from taxpayer contributions to the IMF".
Barack Obama asked Americans to embrace Muslims at home while the penalty for homosexuality in the UAE is death. He found two ways to cut his own throat!
Barack has a Tank battalion of 4000 men stationed in Kuwait with Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles.
I don't mean this the wrong way...I love America 100%....but Obama placing those missiles in Ukraine is really no different than Russia placing missiles in Cuba in the early 60's right? I would not blame Putin for not wanting that.
What is the point anyway? Our subs can launch against Russia if need be...we have thousands of ICBM's too. Why do this provocative move then?
Our president is an idiot.
Bill
@Pirate88179,
"Dumbell Peace Prize"!
Quote from: synchro1 on February 28, 2015, 12:17:03 AM
@Pirate88179,
"Dumbell Peace Prize"!
He sure qualifies for that one. I just wish our "leader" protected the US the way Putin does Russia. No one can say.."Hey, I think Putin does not like Russia." Our "leader"? Not so much.
Bill
"Iran is about to start selling oil that may cost just $1 a barrel"
below:
Iranian Oil Minister Bijan Zangeneh at his hotel before a meeting of OPEC oil ministers in Vienna on December 3.
The definition of "Preditory Pricing" is selling below cost. That's more then $90 a barrel for Saudi Arabia:
"Saudi Arabia requires a price of more than $90 to fund its budget. But it has $726 billion in foreign currency reserves and is betting it can survive for two years with prices of less than $40 a barrel".
Above/below costs : Saudi-Arabia as Venezuela has got the deepest exploration costs by their crude oil exploration,some decades before the S.-A. Gharb-oilfield "sputted" the oil for 1US$/llb.
Cutting the budget down to a 40US$/llb level is not a impossibility !
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Estimating a fair-value for each barrel crude oil with averaged 30 US$ we can expect that more than 50US$/ea. llb during the last 5 years has been price hedged wind fall profits,
political selling restrictions(Lybia,Iran,...) included !
For the next time we can expect with crude oil market prices in the 30-20 US$/llb range,
and for the next 10 years an average market price in the 40-50 US$/llb range,
based by the cheaper becoming shale/coal-to-gas-to-fuel exploration technology.
crude oil alternatives: Solar-/Wind-/Water- Energy based Synfuels
The irony of Iran's recent price policy announcement is that Saudi Arabia stands to fall victim to it's own preditory pricing tactics designed to eliminate their competition. Moreover; The unwillingness of Barack Obama, to appeal to the WTO in a timely fashion as I've advised, to regulate a fair price, makes it very hard to single Iran out as a culprit. Iran has proven oil reserves that rival Saudi Arabia's, plus Iran is more then just a mono-resource economy. Saudi Arabia may be forced to start selling it's U.S. Treasury bills, by price under cutting from Iran, which would turn the Greenback into a hyper inflation Papier Mark.
China sets $40 floor on oil:
"China won't let fuel prices fall in line with crude below $40 a barrel as the the world's second-biggest oil consumer seeks to curb pollution and shield domestic producers from oil's collapse.
The price of fuels such as gasoline and diesel won't be adjusted as long as crude is below $40 a barrel, the National Development and Reform Commission, the country's top economic planner, said in a statement Wednesday. Profits from fuel sales below the $40 level will go to a fund to promote energy conservation and security and improve fuel quality, according to the NDRC.
The decision this winter by President Xi Jinping's government to suspend fuel price cuts amid oil's slump, while the country's biggest cities were shrouded in smog, was explained as an attempt to curb vehicle pollution. It's also an effort to shield the country's massive energy companies from the collapse in prices that has punished the global industry, according to Laban Yu, head of Asia oil and gas equities at Jefferies Group LLC in Hong Kong.
"China's biggest oil companies are not equipped to operate and compete in a crude environment below $40 a barrel," Yu said by phone on Wednesday. "From energy security perspective, it makes sense for NDRC to set the floor."
The $40 floor is "appropriate" even as domestic production costs are higher than that level, the NDRC said.
"As a country that's both a big oil importer and consumer, as well as a large producer, prices that are too high or too low will have a negative impact on China's economy," the NDRC said. Low prices would be a short-term benefit "but it may put constraints on China's domestic oil production and reduce supply," it said.
Brent crude, the benchmark for most of the world's crude, capped a third yearly decline in 2015 and has fallen to the lowest in more than a decade as the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries effectively abandons production limits amid a global glut. Prices, which tumbled about 32 percent in the past year, were trading 2.9 percent higher at $31.74 a barrel at 10:59 a.m. in London.
The creation of the "price adjustment risk fund" for initiatives such as energy savings and emission reduction may mean that China's refiners won't reap much of a windfall, Neil Beveridge, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein & Co., wrote in a research report Wednesday.
"The benefits from keeping prices below $40 a barrel will accrue to the Chinese government, which will be used to fund energy efficiency and diversify away from oil," Beveridge said in the report. "By keeping oil prices too low, OPEC are now indirectly funding their largest customer to develop more efficient energy use. In our view, this is another sign that oil prices are too low."
Oil has fallen since the last price adjustment on Dec. 2, and prices will be adjusted lower from Thursday to reflect the $40 floor, the NDRC said Wednesday. Fuel price changes will also be limited if prices go above $130 a barrel, it said".