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Hi All,
there are 2 young Mexican inventors, Victor Garcia, age 17 and Raul Grajales,
who has built and shown a selfsustaining electric motorbike.

It is started by a conventional 12 Volts Lead Acid battery and
if the back wheel goes faster than 2000 RPM the whole bike gets selfsufficient and propells itsself
via some kind of recharging process.
They also use 2 big 1.5 Farad Supercapacitors for the recharge storage and probably
these supercaps also recharge then the battery.

Here is the text Reuters has published about this invention:

Mexican students invent eco-friendly motorbike

What if you could harvest the energy of a moving vehicle to continue to power it ?

That is the question asked by students of this technical high
school college in Oaxaca, Mexico, one year ago.

It resulted in this prototype motorcycle called R-Walker created by 17-year-old Victor Garcia.

VICTOR GARCIA, SAYING:

"The project is a prototype that generates its own energy as it goes along: As it goes faster and covers longer distances,
it generates more energy. In that way, you don't have to charge the battery every 6-8 hours."

Garcia calls the process "auto-sustainability."

It's based on the principle of converting energy through speed and distance travelled; the engine becomes self-sustaining,
generating more than 2,000 revolutions per minute.

A battery is used to spark ignition, and afterwards without using any combustion the vehicle can carry up to 110 kilograms
and travel at more than 60 kilometers per hour.

Co-designer Raul Grajales said R-Walker could bring huge savings for motorcycle users, as well as the environment.

RAUL GRAJALES, SAYING:

"With this, we have reduced the use of 200 batteries a day and seventy percent of pollution, because it does not contaminate and has zero emissions and we use one battery every 5-10 years."

They built the eco-friendly motorbike from recycled materials, bringing its final price tag to around $200 – a comparatively small sum when considering its potential benefits.

Here is the video from it:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mexican-students-invent-eco-friendly-motorbike/vp-BBiJSgZ (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mexican-students-invent-eco-friendly-motorbike/vp-BBiJSgZ)

Here is a video I just made about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dxUgOTVOs

Please share on Facebook and give a thumbs up,so this
technology is being spreaded and will be known much more.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

[/b][b]

From:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oaxaca.gob.mx%2Festudiantes-del-cobao-triunfan-en-espana-ganan-oro-en-robotica%2F&edit-text=

Original:
http://www.oaxaca.gob.mx/estudiantes-del-cobao-triunfan-en-espana-ganan-oro-en-robotica/

clashed with teams of Turkey, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Belgium, China and Slovakia, among others

  Students of the College of Bachelors of the State of Oaxaca (Cobao) represented Mexico in the International Robotics Tournament Exporecerca, held in Barcelona, ​​Spain, where they obtained the gold medal with the prototype "The Caminate" which is a self-sustaining scooter it does not require fuel to operate.

  Young Victor Ricardo Matias Garcia and Raul Grajales Guzman, respectively and coursing the sixth semester on campus Pueblo Nuevo, arrived at the International Science Fair Exporecerca with the R-Walker, a kind of compact scooter capable of transporting a person virtually permanently, because it has a self-sustaining engine that converts mechanical energy into electricity to feed themselves.

  This prototype won a Gold Medal in the innovative project, which gave the jury the event, and a further ballot held among those attending the exhibition category.

  Oaxacans who represented Mexico in Europe involving more than 200 students from 15 countries, who submitted 116 projects in science and technology.

  "We design a mobility system that does not pollute, it does not require fuel, ie it was self-sustaining and that would meet an important need mainly in rural areas of our state: transport," say the young graduates.

  Smiling, Victor and Raul explained that worked for a year in the planning, design, construction and testing of the prototype to refine the details of its operation.

  For the project used the structure cut from a bicycle, he adapted resistant tire to road, put an engine two thousand 700 rpm, a capacitor and dynamo that act as generator, buffer and alternator power and a battery that only used for spark ignition.

  "This vehicle keeps moving and generates its own energy," they said.

  The R-Walker resists up to 110 kilograms and caused a sensation in the Multimedia competition.  It cost about three thousand dollars, but if done in series that price would drop considerably, indicated Cobao youth, we are advised by Professor Alejandro Villavicencio Arenaza.

  Students have the research protocol;  plans and photographs of the design and construction as well as a thorough evaluation of the project, presented at the Magna Science Fair where teams of Turkey, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Belgium, China and Slovakia participated, among others.   Oaxaca, April 15, 2015


   

I think the MSN piece was really bad.  It looks like he is just using regenerative braking to recharge.  The big black thing in the middle on closer inspection looks like a sealed lead acid battery.  The big super caps buffer the regeneration current.

Hi Stephan,
I usually do not comment this kind of news, but in this particular case I think I know what happened as i myself work in and with the media

This is my theory:
A young journalist from reuters is in mexico, and found this story. She probably was there for something else but found the subject interesting.
She goes to the place and talks to the people at the university.
Her spanish is probably not perfect and the people are enthousiastic and... exagerate a little bit.

Example:  this bike's wheels might  turn at 2000 rpm.. but i really doubt you can "cruise" at 60 km/h with those small wheels.. there would be the smallest stone on the road you would fly meters away.
He probably meant it has an autonomy of 60km...  (in spanish he probably said: you can go 60km) and the journalist thought he meant 60km per hour...

doing 60 km with one 12 volts lead acid battery is extremely efficient...

What also struck me is what the guys are saying.

Let me quote:


VICTOR GARCIA, SAYING:

"The project is a prototype that generates its own energy as it goes along: As it goes faster and covers longer distances,
it generates more energy. In that way, you don't have to charge the battery every 6-8 hours."

OK.. but he does NOT say you dont have to charge it at all!!!

Garcia calls the process "auto-sustainability."
IMHO this is the translation mistake. He probably means something like: "it produces energy that is reinjected into the system"


RAUL GRAJALES, SAYING:

"With this, we have reduced the use of 200 batteries a day and seventy percent of pollution, because it does not contaminate and has zero emissions and we use one battery every 5-10 years."

200 batteries !!!?!?!? a day!?!?!? not realistic..
he probably meant: we have reduced the battery use by 200% a day... and have reduced the pollution by  70%.

This would be far more realistic specially as they call it themselves:  "the eco-friendly motorbike"


But if a reputated news agency like reuters writes this article, hundreds of other newspapers or news sites will take it one to one, without even checking.


So i personally think that those guys invented an electric motor bicycle that uses 2 times less energy than an ordinary one.. thats all..
but again.. I could be wrong  :P

Luc

PS: they won the prize with it.. because it has probably a very low energy consumption...

That sounds very plausible.
I take issue with using "two times less" instead of 'half'.

"It's based on the principle of converting energy through speed and distance travelled; the engine becomes self-sustaining,
generating more than 2,000 revolutions per minute."

I would like to know what that principle is. That is more than a little vague.
If these students and their teacher had a bike that could actually power itself,
they would have done a lot more than win a robotics competition. We would be
hearing about this everywhere in the news I think. I agree that it seems much more likely
that they just have implemented a method to improve efficiency quite a bit. This news story definitely
needs clarification from someone with a science or technology background, so the actual facts can get sorted out. :)

Quote from: DaKrampus on May 11, 2015, 05:44:32 PM
Hi Stephan,
I usually do not comment this kind of news, but in this particular case I think I know what happened as i myself work in and with the media



Example:  this bike's wheels might  turn at 2000 rpm.. but i really doubt you can "cruise" at 60 km/h with those small wheels.. there would be the smallest stone on the road you would fly meters away.
He probably meant it has an autonomy of 60km...  (in spanish he probably said: you can go 60km) and the journalist thought he meant 60km per hour...

doing 60 km with one 12 volts lead acid battery is extremely efficient...

Actually, in Stefans post it says, the engine is running at 2000rpm, not the wheels. ::)

I have 3 electric bikes. 2 are 36v and 1 is 48v, 12ah sla batteries, and one bike uses 30 NIMH D cells. They all 3 do near 20mpc. (miles per charge)  I would like to see the vehicle or info that you claim a 12v batt, such as the one we see in the pics, which looks to be a 7ah, possibly a 10ah battery, can run a bike at 60kmh for as long as they are running their bike. ;) ::) ;D That will impress me. ;)


Mags

Quote from: DaKrampus on May 11, 2015, 05:44:32 PM


but i really doubt you can "cruise" at 60 km/h with those small wheels.. there would be the smallest stone on the road you would fly meters away.

There are electric skateboards with much smaller wheels than shown on this bike that can do 40mph.  ;) So that is a bad argument. ;)

Mags

sorry if there was a misunderstanding..
i did not claim it is a 12 volts battery..
I only assume it is a 12 volts battery by the pic i saw.. nothing else.
and as for the 60 km , I only assume he could have meant a 60km radius.. NOT that he did actually mean it..
because if you see that bike Icannot imagine it running at 60km per hour as it is stated in the reuters news item... specially if you see the inventors in the video..  and they would have probably shown a demo if it were really that fast...

I was just trying to explain how misunderstandings can occur by translation errors.. and if a "famous" news agency like reuters posts something like that , nobody double checks...

thats all...

Luc

In the spanish/english translation from the Oaxaca Government is another fault :
http://www.miconversor.com/3000-pesos-mexicanos-a-dolares-americanos (http://www.miconversor.com/3000-pesos-mexicanos-a-dolares-americanos)
not 3000 US Dollars !
But the right price estimation we can took from Raul Grajales Guzman answer at the first post.

Sincerely
            OCWL     

Found another story in Spanish on this, and they also seem to
be implying that it is a self running bike:

Original Spanish:
http://asociacionculturalmexicanocatalana.blogspot.ca/2015/03/proyectos-mexicanos-se-expusieron-en-el.html

Google English translation of the relevant part:

Quote"R-Walker (Oaxaca, Oaxaca) Manufactured Cobao students (School of Bachelors of the State of Oaxaca), the R-Walker, is a prototype of
alternative and renewable energies rural and urban use.  Do not use fossil fuels or recharge batteries, it is one of the first worldwide to be self-sustaining?
It's kind of compact bike capable of transporting a person almost permanently, as it has a self-sustaining electric motor and therefore does not require any
fuel to operate.  R-Walker was created by Victor Ricardo Matias Garcia and Raul Grajales Guzman."

It seems unlikely that it would really be self sustaining and not have caused a major
sensation on all major news networks around the world. Something doesn't seem to add up.  ???
How could a reporter report on a story in which they state that a machine is self sustaining, and not
ask all kinds of questions about how it is supposed to work and how they confirmed that it is self sustaining. 
It's like reporting on a story where you say that so and so invented a machine that can transport
people anywhere in the world by dematerializing them and rematerializing them somewhere else, and not asking
any follow up questions. Duh! ;) Someone here with a technical background who can speak Spanish should contact
the teacher at that school involved in the project and get clarification on how the bike is supposed to work according to
the teacher.

Teacher:
Professor Alejandro Villavicencio, the head of the school of robotics at Oaxaca's high school college

Colegio de Bachilleres del Estado de Oaxaca
Address: Internacional Carr. Cristóbal Colon s/n. Pueblo Nuevo,
Agencia Municipal de Pueblo Nuevo,
71940 Oaxaca De Juarez,
OAX, Mexico
Phone:+52 951 512 6827

The set-up looks like a basic regenerative braking arrangement.  That's a good thing to have but not new.  Neither is using super caps to buffer the electrochemical battery.  If the thing goes down a 1km 3% grade, it is a safe bet that after coming back up that grade the battery will be more depleted than at the start.

Here's another news story on the R-Walker.
The students definitely appear to be saying that they think the bike is self sustaining.
It is just very vague about how this is supposed to work exactly. This story has a little bit more
detail, but not much:

Original Spanish:
http://www.noticiasnet.mx/portal/oaxaca/general/educativas/274215-neuropower-del-cobao

Google English Translation:

Quote
Have just 17, but their names are entered in the registers: they are inventors.  This is Raul Grajales Guzman and Victor Ricardo Matias Garcia, students in sixth semester of the College of Bachelors of Oaxaca (Cobao) 01 Pueblo Nuevo, who using the principle "the matter is not created nor destroyed, only transformed", designed and They produced the R-Walker, an autonomous bicycle without pedals capable of generating its own energy of motion.

This prototype won the gold medal awarded by the jury of the International Robotics Tournament held in Barcelona, ​​Spain, in the category of innovative project

The invention was born a year ago from a set of ideas and trials Club Cobao Multimedia and Robotics, currently composed of 32 students.  The starting point was European prototypes of urban mobility.  The challenge was to create one that does not use batteries and is capable of driving on the streets of Oaxaca considering their difficulties.

"We also saw the problem that there are young people who walk hours to reach their schools, in Oaxaca people walking hours in the mountains to get to take your truck and then plan to make a prototype that could help these people, however we find the first problem: how are you going to give a person a system of mobility if you tell them they have to buy gas or have to recharge a battery in eight hours, "Ricardo explains.

From the above approach Raul and Ricardo, under the guidance of Professor Alejandro Villavicencio Arenaza, managed to develop a prototype using renewable energy to generate own speed.  "We have five months without discharging the battery, this means that the prototype works," says the student.

The R-Walker has a suspension unpressurized oil-and-only tires with asphalt type.  "We worked mainly on design dynamo used on bicycles for the lighthouse. It is used to feed the stored magnetic fields in the capacitor of the left side and from there the battery is recharged and the battery moves to the engine and the engine start the cycle. The loss is 0.3 volts between the generation and use, " explained broadly.

Notice that the students said they have gone five months without discharging the battery... 
It seems to be that some sort of dynamo (generator) charges the super caps which is supposed to keep the battery charged.
Normally that wouldn't be self sustaining, so how??? :)

Quote from: Void on May 11, 2015, 08:48:22 PM
Here's another news story on the R-Walker.
The students definitely appear to be saying that they think the bike is self sustaining.
It is just very vague about how this is supposed to work exactly. This story has a little bit more
detail, but not much:

Original Spanish:
http://www.noticiasnet.mx/portal/oaxaca/general/educativas/274215-neuropower-del-cobao

Google English Translation:
Notice that the students said they have gone five months without discharging the battery... 
It seems to be that some sort of dynamo (generator) charges the super caps which is supposed to keep the battery charged.
Normally that wouldn't be self sustaining, so how??? :)

They could ride the thing downhill to charge it, and then push it back up hill to preserve the charge.

Quote from: MarkE on May 11, 2015, 10:09:31 PM
They could ride the thing downhill to charge it, and then push it back up hill to preserve the charge.

LOL

What about the "spark" ?


Why do they need a spark?


I'm not an electrician of any kind, but could they use the spark to charge the supercaps, with high voltage?
And slowly funnel this back in low voltage to the engine?


( Sorry if this not makes sense )

No it does not make sense.

Quote from: DaKrampus on May 11, 2015, 05:44:32 PM
Hi Stephan,
I usually do not comment this kind of news, but in this particular case I think I know what happened as i myself work in and with the media

This is my theory:
A young journalist from reuters is in mexico, and found this story. She probably was there for something else but found the subject interesting.
She goes to the place and talks to the people at the university.
Her spanish is probably not perfect and the people are enthousiastic and... exagerate a little bit.

Example:  this bike's wheels might  turn at 2000 rpm.. but i really doubt you can "cruise" at 60 km/h with those small wheels.. there would be the smallest stone on the road you would fly meters away.
He probably meant it has an autonomy of 60km...  (in spanish he probably said: you can go 60km) and the journalist thought he meant 60km per hour...

doing 60 km with one 12 volts lead acid battery is extremely efficient...

What also struck me is what the guys are saying.

Let me quote:


VICTOR GARCIA, SAYING:

"The project is a prototype that generates its own energy as it goes along: As it goes faster and covers longer distances,
it generates more energy. In that way, you don't have to charge the battery every 6-8 hours."

OK.. but he does NOT say you dont have to charge it at all!!!

Garcia calls the process "auto-sustainability."
IMHO this is the translation mistake. He probably means something like: "it produces energy that is reinjected into the system"


RAUL GRAJALES, SAYING:

"With this, we have reduced the use of 200 batteries a day and seventy percent of pollution, because it does not contaminate and has zero emissions and we use one battery every 5-10 years."

200 batteries !!!?!?!? a day!?!?!? not realistic..
he probably meant: we have reduced the battery use by 200% a day... and have reduced the pollution by  70%.

This would be far more realistic specially as they call it themselves:  "the eco-friendly motorbike"


But if a reputated news agency like reuters writes this article, hundreds of other newspapers or news sites will take it one to one, without even checking.


So i personally think that those guys invented an electric motor bicycle that uses 2 times less energy than an ordinary one.. thats all..
but again.. I could be wrong  :P

Luc

PS: they won the prize with it.. because it has probably a very low energy consumption...

Agree.
If here be selfrunning bicycle, then in all word say about it.
Here probarly translation errors or not understanding errors, that they students wants to say.
With that small tires and how fast he riding in video, not seems, that this bike, can run 60 km\h. Students probarly say 60 km distance. But I think, that they not meashure that distance, but gues, so in reality it is much smaller. :) ;)

Quote from: Void on May 11, 2015, 08:48:22 PM
....
Notice that the students said they have gone five months without discharging the battery... 

[/font]
Maybe they only make 5 minutes in every month riding? Need known that distance they run in this five moths?

QuoteIt seems to be that some sort of dynamo (generator) charges the super caps which is supposed to keep the battery charged.
Normally that wouldn't be self sustaining, so how??? :)

Maybe dinamo with supercaps have eficienty about 200 precents?

Quote from: MarkE on May 11, 2015, 10:09:31 PM
They could ride the thing downhill to charge it, and then push it back up hill to preserve the charge.

Or with bus can transport uphill, because it small.

Quote from: Cherryman on May 12, 2015, 02:53:46 AM
What about the "spark" ?


Why do they need a spark?

Were you read about spark?

Quote from: MenofFather on May 12, 2015, 05:35:52 AM
Were you read about spark?

initial post of Stephan at page 1
"A battery is used to spark ignition, and afterwards without using any combustion the vehicle can carry up to 110 kilograms
and travel at more than 60 kilometers per hour."

another translation-error I guess

...and what about these two strange silver exhaust-pipes ?

Kator01

Quote from: MenofFather on May 12, 2015, 05:30:00 AM
Maybe they only make 5 minutes in every month riding? Need known that distance they run in this five moths?
Maybe dinamo with supercaps have eficienty about 200 precents?

Hi MenofFather. Well there are lots of details we still don't know. We definitely need a lot more details
about what they are doing. Right now it is all still quite vague.
If the dynamo charging the super caps has a 200% efficiency, that would be quite an invention! :)
All the best...

Did some more searching and found something interesting.
The pictures we have seen so far may not have shown the full configuration of the bike.
Besides the generator and super caps, they also sometimes attach what appears to be
solar cell disks to the front of the bike. With the generator and the solar cells and with Mexico
being a very sunny place, possibly they are able to make the bike self sustaining that way. I still don't know whether
the generator is configured only as regenerative braking or if they have it generating full time while the bike
is moving. Maybe this bike is not such a mystery after all. ;) Do these look like solar cells?
Park the bike outside in the sun when you are not using it and the battery would be charging back
up the whole time.

Quote from: Void on May 12, 2015, 10:48:05 AM
Did some more searching and found something interesting.
The pictures we have seen so far may not have shown the full configuration of the bike.
Besides the generator and super caps, they also sometimes attach what appears to be
solar cell disks to the front of the bike. With the generator and the solar cells and with Mexico
being a very sunny place, possibly they are able to make the bike self sustaining that way. I still don't know whether
the generator is configured only as regenerative braking or if they have it generating full time while the bike
is moving. Maybe this bike is not such a mystery after all. ;) Do these look like solar cells?
Park the bike outside in the sun when you are not using it and the battery would be charging back
up the whole time.

might be to recharge the headlights only as they seem to be missing on other photos
Kind Regards

Quote from: markdansie on May 12, 2015, 10:58:17 AM
might be to recharge the headlights only as they seem to be missing on other photos
Kind Regards

Yes, could be. Taking a closer look, the solar cells are actually quite small, so they may well be just for charging the head light batteries.
All the best...

Yes, all very strange.
Does somebody find their email adresses or Facebook accounts, so we can contact them ?
Would be good to get first hand infos from them directly.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Hello All

"Este prototipo obtuvo la medalla de oro otorgado por el jurado del Torneo Internacional de Robótica, realizado en la ciudad de Barcelona, España, en la categoría de proyecto innovador"

"This prototype received the Gold Medal in the innovative project category, awarded by the judges of the International Robotics Contest, which was held in the City of Barcelona, Spain."

"lograron desarrollar un prototipo con energía renovable utilizando la propia velocidad para generarla. "Llevamos 5 meses con la batería sin descargar, eso quiere decir que el prototipo funciona",

They managed to develop a prototype using renewable energy that capitalizes on the vehicle's own 'speed' to generate it.  " We have gone 5 months now without DISCHARGING the battery, this means that the prototype is working"

"La pérdida es de 0.3 voltios entre la generación y el uso ",

"The loss between the generator and the use (motor) is only 0.3 volts"

I read the entire Spanish transcript and there is *not* any tech. info. presented.  The above qoute is the only reference to any type of efficiency.


I live in Southern Mexico and I speak fluent Spanish.............  No problem with the translation.

take care, peace
lost_bro

Hi All,
I found their Facebook page about it;

https://www.facebook.com/pages/R-Walker/602405343214548

There are also 2 Videos on it.

@Lost_bro
there is also a Newspaper article in it, maybe you can see, what it says in the picture
section of their Facebook page.
Here:
https://scontent-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/20897_766686286786452_7344731578712212539_n.jpg?oh=8a68adf3e76a424d63942dfa3bf42577&oe=55CF8440

Many thanks.

Here are the 2 videos:

https://www.facebook.com/602405343214548/videos/761367333985014/?permPage=1

https://www.facebook.com/602405343214548/videos/720782284710186/?permPage=1

Here is another video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K5kEuo6d50

Can somebody tell us, what they say there ?

Many thanks.

From:
http://www.mediasolutions.com.mx/ncpop.asp?n=201504170554323001&t=7447
and
http://www.mediasolutions.com.mx/imext/20150417-excelsior-nacional-26-HQ-ofDF.jpg (http://www.mediasolutions.com.mx/imext/20150417-excelsior-nacional-26-HQ-ofDF.jpg)

Axaca, Oaxaca. Students of the College of Bachelors of the State of Oaxaca (Cobao) won gold medal in the international robotics tournament Exporecerca, held in Barcelona, ​​Spain, where they represented Mexico with the prototype "The Wanderer", a self-sustaining scooter that does not require fuel function.

Students in sixth semester Victor Matias Garcia and Raul Grajales Guzman participated in the International Science Fair with its compact scooter

(RWalker) capable of transporting a person "almost permanently, as it has a self-sustaining engine that converts mechanical energy into electricity to feed themselves," the director of the institution, Germán Espinoza Santibanez.

Satisfied with the success of the students, the director said that this prototype won the gold medal in the innovative project, which gave the jury of the competition area, and a further ballot held among the other participants in the international fair robotics.

Oaxacans who represented Mexico in Europe involving more than 200 students from 15 countries and 116 science and technology projects.

"We design a mobility system that does not pollute, it does not require fuel, ie, self-sustaining, and that would meet an important need mainly in rural areas of Oaxaca, and the rest of the country: transport," said the student Victor Matthias.

Victor and Raul worked for a year as a project of the scooter. From the design, prototype construction and testing to refine the details of its operation.

For the project used the structure cut from a bicycle, he adapted resistant tire to road, put an engine two thousand 700 rpm, a capacitor and generator, which in turn makes generator, buffer and alternator power, and battery is only used for spark ignition.

"This vehicle, moving, generates and stores its own energy.

The RWalker hold up to 110 kilograms, "noted the young.

The prototype cost about three thousand dollars, "but if done in series that price would drop considerably," said Victor, who was always accompanied by his teacher Arenaza Alejandro Villavicencio.

Students have the research protocol; plans and photographs of the design and construction as well as a complete evaluation of the project, presented the last week of March during the Magna Science Fair, where teams of Turkey, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Belgium, China and Slovakia participated, among others.

(The scooter) has a self-sustaining engine that converts mechanical energy into electricity to feed themselves. "

ESPINOZA GERMAN SCHOOL DIRECTOR OF STATE OAXACALos BACHILLERES students have the research protocol, plans and photographs of the design and construction as well as a complete evaluation.

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 12, 2015, 11:26:42 PM
From:
http://www.mediasolutions.com.mx/ncpop.asp?n=201504170554323001&t=7447 (http://www.mediasolutions.com.mx/ncpop.asp?n=201504170554323001&t=7447)
and
http://www.mediasolutions.com.mx/imext/20150417-excelsior-nacional-26-HQ-ofDF.jpg (http://www.mediasolutions.com.mx/imext/20150417-excelsior-nacional-26-HQ-ofDF.jpg)

Axaca, Oaxaca. Students of the College of Bachelors of the State of Oaxaca (Cobao) won gold medal in the international robotics tournament Exporecerca, held in Barcelona, ​​Spain, where they represented Mexico with the prototype "The Wanderer", a self-sustaining scooter that does not require fuel function.

Students in sixth semester Victor Matias Garcia and Raul Grajales Guzman participated in the International Science Fair with its compact scooter

(RWalker) capable of transporting a person "almost permanently, as it has a self-sustaining engine that converts mechanical energy into electricity to feed themselves," the director of the institution, Germán Espinoza Santibanez.

Satisfied with the success of the students, the director said that this prototype won the gold medal in the innovative project, which gave the jury of the competition area, and a further ballot held among the other participants in the international fair robotics.

Oaxacans who represented Mexico in Europe involving more than 200 students from 15 countries and 116 science and technology projects.

"We design a mobility system that does not pollute, it does not require fuel, ie, self-sustaining, and that would meet an important need mainly in rural areas of Oaxaca, and the rest of the country: transport," said the student Victor Matthias.

Victor and Raul worked for a year as a project of the scooter. From the design, prototype construction and testing to refine the details of its operation.

For the project used the structure cut from a bicycle, he adapted resistant tire to road, put an engine two thousand 700 rpm, a capacitor and generator, which in turn makes generator, buffer and alternator power, and battery is only used for spark ignition.

"This vehicle, moving, generates and stores its own energy.

The RWalker hold up to 110 kilograms, "noted the young.

The prototype cost about three thousand dollars, "but if done in series that price would drop considerably," said Victor, who was always accompanied by his teacher Arenaza Alejandro Villavicencio.

Students have the research protocol; plans and photographs of the design and construction as well as a complete evaluation of the project, presented the last week of March during the Magna Science Fair, where teams of Turkey, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, Belgium, China and Slovakia participated, among others.

(The scooter) has a self-sustaining engine that converts mechanical energy into electricity to feed themselves. "

ESPINOZA GERMAN SCHOOL DIRECTOR OF STATE OAXACALos BACHILLERES students have the research protocol, plans and photographs of the design and construction as well as a complete evaluation.

Thanks Stefan.

I think I am still confused about the need for spark ignition.  What the heck does an electric vehicle need spark ignition for?

Also, I was thinking that maybe it is using something like Tommy Reed's "Pedal By Wire" system and, to charge up the system, all you need to do is use it like
a stationary exercise bike and pedal for so many minutes to charge the battery.  Then, flip the switch and drive off.  They might consider that self sustaining.

Maybe like a hand crank radio that never needs batteries...as long as you crank it once in a while?

Other than that...I have no idea what this may, or may not be.

Bill

@Bill.
I guess spark ignition is a translation error.
I guess it must must just mean the battery is there just for the start of the bike.

I have sent the inventors mails and messages via Facebook.
We will see, what they will respond...

Regards, Stefan.

What is it ? (ignoring everything translated)
Its an electric scooter "r-walker" - and I would expect that it is not meant to run faster as maybe 8km/hr or 5miles/hr - because its an "r-walker".
Running on a flat surface without wind - there will be little impact from aerodynamics, just bearing friction, deformation of tire, compensate eccentricity of tire.
The battery used looks somehow like a 10AH, 12V lead acid type - so we are talking about 100Wh energy.
If we take a DC motor, designed for 100-200 Watts - it might work quite efficient in the range 20-50Watts.
A set of 2 1,5F caps can store an energy of 36Ws.
Using such caps in parallel with the motor will recover energy drawn by eccentricity of tire, energy consumed by bumps (stored in pretty undamped suspension).
Maybe its possible to get the average wattage needed for such drive down to 20-30Watt for this speed on a flat surface.
Without cap - probably 60-80 Watt.
This would give you up to 5hrs of driving - instead of 1-2hrs without caps.
Using fat tires on real surface even reduces rolling resistance.
We will see.
60 km with 100Wh at 10km/hr would be 6hrs@16Watt.
I found some table with 5W@10km/h caused by air resistance.
15-25W rolling resistance for such tires would be feasible.

Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 13, 2015, 12:41:56 AM
Also, I was thinking that maybe it is using something like Tommy Reed's "Pedal By Wire" system and, to charge up the system, all you need to do is use it like
a stationary exercise bike and pedal for so many minutes to charge the battery.  Then, flip the switch and drive off.  They might consider that self sustaining.
Maybe like a hand crank radio that never needs batteries...as long as you crank it once in a while?

The bike has no pedals on it, so pretty hard to pedal charge the bike when it has no pedals. ;)
In some news reports the inventors have said the bike requires no gas and no external charging. They have
said that it is self charging. If they are not using solar panels to help recharge the battery, then all self-charging
must come from the dynamo (generator) that is mounted on the bike. There have been no technical details described
that I have found so far that explain how this 'self sustaining recharge' is supposed to work.

Quote from: fritz on May 13, 2015, 07:07:32 AM
A set of 2 1,5F caps can store an energy of 36Ws.

Watts is an indication of rate of energy production or consumption, i.e. power, not a measure of energy.
Two 1.5F caps in parallel at 12 Volts can store a total of 216 Joules of energy.
You could draw 1 Watt of power off those caps for 3.6 minutes, at which point the caps
would be completely drained, if they were not being recharged at the same time.
There is only a relatively small amount of power available from the super caps when they are fully charged up.
The power requirement to run the bike's electric motor will likely be quite a lot higher than 1 watt.  That
would be a pretty substantial drain on the battery shown mounted on the bike, so there would have to
be a fairly high charge current going to the battery when the bike is running to keep the
battery charged up. We know it has a generator, but still a bike self powering its own generator
would of course not normally be self sustaining. We are still missing some very key technical information on
how the bike is supposed to be able to charge itself. Unless they are taking some portable solar panels and
recharging the battery when the bike is parked, it is still a mystery how the bike is supposed to be self sustaining.

8 Km/h would be a joke,this is the velocity for kids battery sourced evehicle !

Quote from: Void on May 13, 2015, 08:00:33 AM
Watts is an indication of rate of energy production or consumption, i.e. power, not a measure of energy.
Two 1.5F caps in parallel at 12 Volts can store a total of 216 Joules of energy.
You could draw 1 Watt of power off those caps for 3.6 minutes, at which point the caps
would be completely drained, if they were not being recharged at the same time.
There is only a relatively small amount of power available from the super caps when they are fully charged up.
The power requirement to run the bike's electric motor will likely be quite a lot higher than 1 watt.  That
would be a pretty substantial drain on the battery shown mounted on the bike, so there would have to
be a fairly high charge current going to the battery when the bike is running to keep the
battery charged up. We know it has a generator, but still a bike self powering its own generator
would of course not normally be self sustaining. We are still missing some very key technical information on
how the bike is supposed to be able to charge itself. Unless they are taking some portable solar panels and
recharging the battery when the bike is parked, it is still a mystery how the bike is supposed to be self sustaining.

agree.
I would simply think about a super-cap-buffered dc motor, having an interesting operation point@ 2000rpm.
Maybe its possible to reduce systematic and frequent losses by a third using that buffering !?

Quote from: fritz on May 13, 2015, 08:26:11 AM
agree.
I would simply think about a super-cap-buffered dc motor, having an interesting operation point@ 2000rpm.
Maybe its possible to reduce systematic and frequent losses by a third using that buffering !?

If the two students have come up with an over unity electric motor and generator self loop combination
using the super caps as a buffer somehow, then that is quite the invention for some students. I would think however
if the two students stated in the robotics contest in Spain that they have an over unity generator system
mounted on their R-Walker, that this would have created much more of a stir amongst the contest judges and
organizers and in the news, etc.  than it seems to have done. It would make more sense to me that they are using something
like portable solar panels to recharge the battery when not using the bike, but the students have said that the bike does
not require external charging. We will just have to wait and see if we can get more technical details. :)

This is about a 200 US$ prototype,
later the industrial standart evehicle can use power and energy source inventions like this :
http://www.newcastleinnovationscience.com.au/supercapacitor-technology (http://www.newcastleinnovationscience.com.au/supercapacitor-technology)

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 13, 2015, 02:35:17 AM
I have sent the inventors mails and messages via Facebook.
We will see, what they will respond...

I think the two students are supposed to be showing their R-Walker bike in Bucharest, Romania which
takes place from Thursday May 14 to Monday May 18, for the world final Informatrix robotics competition.
http://www.infomatrix.ro/schedule

The new ice is probably a 2 stroke, 2 stroke engines often require oil to be added
to the gasoline mixture. So it's quite possible the engine could be running only
on lubrication oil. At any rate lubrication is going to require the oil present in critical
areas. The high DC alternator output of scooter engines is well known.

..S..MarkSCoffman

Quote from: mscoffman on May 13, 2015, 11:59:52 AM
The new ice is probably a 2 stroke, 2 stroke engines often require oil to be added...

I think it only has an electric motor. No ICE.

Quote from: Void on May 13, 2015, 12:15:46 PM
I think it only has an electric motor. No ICE.

I think this vehicle is a electric internal combustion hybrid.

for example the statements..

"It's based on the principle of converting energy through speed and distance travelled; the engine becomes self-sustaining,
generating more than 2,000 revolutions per minute.

A battery is used to spark ignition, and afterwards without using any combustion the vehicle can carry up to 110 kilograms
and travel at more than 60 kilometers per hour."

"The engine", "battery is used to spark ignition", "Without using any combustion"

argues people are seeing this wrong. I think this is a hybrid with two motors in parallel

There is a lot of evidence from the pictures. In one of the first pictures where he is kneeling besides the bike there
appears to be exhaust all over near his hand. Also there seems to be a spark plug under the heat shrink tubing in another.
In one of the videos he seems to be positioning his hand as if to feel a cool exhaust gas stream.

People are arguing that the bike is doing more then electricity alone is possibly capable of and I agree.

Either way it is a bad commentary on the people writing the article.

..S..MarkSCoffman

  The scooter is not a hydrid, and is not gas powered, as it has No gas motor.
  It utilizes a self regenarative charging system to keep the battery up. And, it is an all electric self sustaining design.
  It can run at a top speed of 25 kilometers per hour. Not 40kph, as somebody had mentioned.
   It's made and adapted from a bike frame.
  The small solar panels are for the blinkers, not for recharging the batteries.  There are no pedals to recharge the battery with.
  So, guys. Not free energy?  Or is it?  Nothing in life is free, except for life itself. 
  But, I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this.
   

I have already mentioned this in this thread, but here it is again in case anyone missed it.
I think at least one of the students are supposed to be showing their R-Walker bike in Bucharest, Romania which
takes place from Thursday May 14 to Monday May 18, for the world final Informatrix robotics competition.
http://www.infomatrix.ro/schedule

Edit: 
Confirmed. Victor Ricardo Garcia and his teacher are in attendance at Informatrix in Bucharest

Why does an electric bike that recharges its own battery while running, need solar cells for the blinkers?

Quote from: TinselKoala on May 14, 2015, 03:15:21 PM
Why does an electric bike that recharges its own battery while running, need solar cells for the blinkers?

The solar cells shown in the video are quite small and may come as part of the head light assemblies.
In the video, they are mounted right above the small head lights, so they do seem to be associated with the head lights.

Quote from: Void on May 14, 2015, 03:27:36 PM
The solar cells shown in the video are quite small and may come as part of the head light assemblies.
In the video, they are mounted right above the small head lights, so they do seem to be associated with the head lights.

Yes, but TK's question still applies.  We are presented with a device that supposedly self-generates propulsive power of well over 100W.  Why does it need solar panels to recharge the batteries for a couple of Watts to headlights?  Why not just take a couple of Watts from the 100W+ propulsion power source?

  There must be a good reason. Like, to avoid draining the main battery's charge, while driving at night, with the lights on.
  We'll know if this is a hoax, or not, soon enough.
  But, I have a feeling that it's no hoax, and I do understand what is being said in the video. 
  Although this is just their first prototype, and probably is not a finished product, as yet.

Quote from: NickZ on May 14, 2015, 04:16:22 PM
  There must be a good reason. Like, to avoid draining the main battery's charge, while driving at night, with the lights on.
  We'll know if this is a hoax, or not, soon enough.
  But, I have a feeling that it's no hoax, and I do understand what is being said in the video. 
  Although this is just their first prototype, and probably is not a finished product, as yet.

The pieces that they have are suitable to a regenerative braking system.  The pictures do not show anything that I can see as a control electronics box.  So what it may be is that they have something as simple as the motor connected to the battery in parallel with the super capacitors.  In such a case they do not have any kind of power converter.  If the design is that dirt simple, then it would make sense that they would just go buy some headlights that they can bolt to the handle bars.  Also in such a case the 2000 rpm comments would make sense:  When the motor generator voltage is greater than the battery voltage the motor drives the battery braking the scooter.  At lower rpms the motor draws current from the battery, but generating less and less torque as the generator voltage rises towards the battery voltage.

Quote from: MarkE on May 14, 2015, 04:04:21 PM
Yes, but TK's question still applies.  We are presented with a device that supposedly self-generates propulsive power of well over 100W.  Why does it need solar panels to recharge the batteries for a couple of Watts to headlights?  Why not just take a couple of Watts from the 100W+ propulsion power source?

We so far have very few technical details about how this bike is supposed to function
as a 'self sustaining' bike. For all we really know at this point the students could be recharging
the battery using portable solar panels or whatever when the bike is parked. The news stories posted so
far may have been misleading to some extent or other. Regarding the head lights and small solar panels, since this was a
green project by the students, they may just have wanted to show that parts of the bike can be independently powered by
solar power to reduce main battery load, or whatever.

Quote from: NickZ on May 14, 2015, 04:16:22 PM
We'll know if this is a hoax, or not, soon enough.

Hi NickZ. Nothing anywhere has suggested this is a 'hoax'. The students actually recently won first place in a
robotics competition in Spain with their R-Walker bike. ;) What is still uncertain is what exactly the
students meant by the bike being 'self sustaining'. That could possibly mean anything from regenerative braking
and possibly the use of portable solar panels, to who knows what else. :)

  We'll if it's not a hoax, which I doubt, and it's based on regenative braking involved to maintain the charge on the battery.
Then the led lights and solar cells are probably purchased as a bike lighting system addition, for night driving.
The lights may have nothing to do with the main battery. But, even if if the tiny solar panels were to add charge to the main battery,
as well, there's nothing wrong with that.

  It reminds me of what we did as kids, taking a bike frame, adding some smaller wheels to it, and placing a small gas motor in
the center of the frame. It was a lot of fun.  And it would go over 30mph.
The limit now for electric bikes, scooters, and mopeds, etz... is no faster than 30mph.
 
  Main thing was, that with this new approach, the prototype has "run for 5 month without discharging the battery".
  Take it for what it's worth. To me this is one interesting project, with far reaching possibilities.

Quote from: NickZ on May 14, 2015, 05:16:36 PM
  We'll if it's not a hoax, which I doubt, and it's based on regenative braking involved to maintain the charge on the battery.
Then the led lights and solar cells are probably purchased as a bike lighting system addition, for night driving.
The lights may have nothing to do with the main battery. But, even if if the tiny solar panels were to add charge to the main battery,
as well, there's nothing wrong with that.

  It reminds me of what we did as kids, taking a bike frame, adding some smaller wheels to it, and placing a small gas motor in
the center of the frame. It was a lot of fun.  And it would go over 30mph.
The limit now for electric bikes, scooters, and mopeds, etz... is no faster than 30mph.
 
  Main thing was, that with this new approach, the prototype has "run for 5 month without discharging the battery".
  Take it for what it's worth. To me this is one interesting project, with far reaching possibilities.

Nature did not suddenly change yesterday.  Going 10mph up a mild 1% grade with a 50lb bike and 150lb rider amounts to lifting 90.9kg by 0.0447m/s, requires 39.8W mechanical power over and above friction losses.  That power has to come from somewhere.  A small sealed lead acid battery of the kind they show has around 85Wh storage.  So, with no friction or power conversion losses it could support the scooter going about 20miles on an average 1% grade.  Or two hours endurance.  That boys and girls is all you get.  If they regeneratively brake going downhill or coasting, they have to spend the energy getting up to speed or going up the hill.  There is no free lunch.

  As I didn't hear anything about the brakes being involved in the recharging process, it may be that they have a found way to regenerate the battery charge, even without having braking be involved. And, it may not be the right time for them to spill the beans, about it. As it all depends on how the battery is being recharged, while the vehicle is running.
  I'd love to be the first on my block, with one of those. Ha!

Quote from: NickZ on May 14, 2015, 05:54:50 PM
  As I didn't hear anything about the brakes being involved in the recharging process, it may be that they have a found way to regenerate the battery charge, even without having braking be involved. And, it may not be the right time for them to spill the beans, about it. As it all depends on how the battery is being recharged, while the vehicle is running.
  I'd love to be the first on my block, with one of those. Ha!

Recharging the battery from the motor uses the motor as a generator and the entire process places a mechanical load on the wheels.  It is regenerative braking.  A rose by any other name is still a rose.

I do not recall anyone here suggesting that this is a hoax or fraud.  It is obviously some sort of miscommunication due to translations and a real
lack of any details of their device.  All I have ever said is that it can not do 60km/hour and run for 5 months without recharging the battery as some of the translations have claimed so, there is obviously something misunderstood by the reporters.

Bill

Yes, they have not yet answered my emails, cause they are probably just attending this conference
in Romania.
Hopefully we will soon hear more about it.

@MarkE,
Please stop the negative comments about it, until we get further informations.
The
solar headlights were added later.
In the first pictures they did not have any lights at all, so they just added them probably for convenience
and also to not disturb the other circuitry.

The control box for the whole system seems to be below the lead Acid battery...
A little hard to see, cause we don´t have good pictures of it yet..
I only grabbed a few pictures out of the first video.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan, like most here I think that some editors misunderstood what these students put together and have printed claims that are completely wrong.  Eventually, we should be able to get enough material translated to see what it is these students actually claim and maybe even we will get to see how the scooter actually performs.  For example they may have bought or built power conversion electronics that accommodates motor generator voltage by boosting the battery voltage.  They may also have done something more clever than usual to get superior efficiency during regenerative braking.  Each of the super capacitors can store about 100J at 12V.  It is much more storage than needed to buffer motor PWM cycles, but it is much less than what would be needed to buffer the battery against an acceleration cycle lasting more than a second or two.  I think it is conventional technolgoy with a conventional result, but I also think it is good anytime kids work on real world technology problems.  The process teaches important skills even if the end product doesn't shake the pillars of heaven.  At any rate we will eventually see what if anything is unusual.

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 15, 2015, 12:36:49 AM
Yes, they have not yet answered my emails, cause they are probably just attending this conference
in Romania.
Hopefully we will soon hear more about it.

Hi Stefan. Here is a photo from today of Victor Ricardo Garcia showing the R-Walker at the
Infomatrix competition in Bucharest, Romania.

http://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11130105_1000816399943369_7058123303511868359_n.jpg?oh=e2a39012db7a2c9305278b50ec97bee8&oe=560B47EF

This is the kind of project where part numbers for components should be readily accessible since it was once parts itself.
Building a duplicate of the electrical system attached to a piece of electrical conduit rather than to a scooter frame would
be very educational. It would be quite easy for them to swap components when something doesn't work.

Use the second motor to spin up to the primary wheel speed of 2000RPM and should this cause the system to become
self running. I dislike it when this type of project doesn't seem to follow a logical flow. There other thing is the use of
combustion terminology where there is apparently no combustion.

..S..MarkSCoffman

  Most likely, the bike is not totally self sustaining, but yet can recharge itself to some limited degree.
I notice how they don't show a clear shot of the electric motor,  nor what the regenerative charging part is, or how it works.
Even then, it may be a start in the right direction, but it would also be nice to know how it's all set up.
  Not bad for a start...

   Look at something like the Tesla S, which only runs for 12 minutes, all out, before
draining the batteries to the point of them causing the shutting off of the input to the engine.
   http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-model-lasts-12-minutes-143930615.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-model-lasts-12-minutes-143930615.html)
   

   But, Not so with this Tesla:

Quote from: NickZ on May 15, 2015, 09:21:32 PM
  Most likely, the bike is not totally self sustaining, but yet can recharge itself to some limited degree.
I notice how they don't show a clear shot of the electric motor,  nor what the regenerative charging part is, or how it works.
Even then, it may be a start in the right direction, but it would also be nice to know how it's all set up.
  Not bad for a start...

   Look at something like the Tesla S, which only runs for 12 minutes, all out, before
draining the batteries to the point of them causing the shutting off of the input to the engine.
   http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-model-lasts-12-minutes-143930615.html (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-model-lasts-12-minutes-143930615.html)
   

   But, Not so with this Tesla:

Nick:

Exactly what I, and others, have been saying.  We don't think these kids are up to no good and making outrageous claims to scam money from folks.  No.

I think it is great that they have completed a project, and they get to travel to other countries to show off their work.  This is fantastic.  So what if it is not "self-sustaining" as the news reports claim.  I doubt that the kids, or their teacher ever made such claims.  This would certainly not be the first time that reporters made a few errors in covering a story.  Add to that, translations problems and...well...you can see what happens. 

The real story is these great kids, interested in technology, backed by a caring teacher, are now demonstrating their project in a foreign country.  This is something these kids will never forget.  Also, who knows...maybe they just found a way to increase the efficiency of electric bikes?

All I ever said was it could not be "self-sustaining."  I am very happy for these kids and, I am sure all of them will go on to discover who knows what and help to improve our understanding of science.  I just wish the reporters did not mess up like this.  Those kids deserve better than that.

Bill

Hi All,
In the news, little technical information, almost everything is copy and paste
A little info:
http://www.diarioaxaca.com/pais/20-estados/83764-estudiantes-de-robotica-del-cobao-quieren-viajar-a-rumania

Battery start spark
A toothed belt moves the toothed wheel
Inside of the rim there is a dynamo, this collects the energy to run the electric motor

The set consists of battery, electric motor (2700 rpm) , toothed belt, toothed wheel, dynamo, capacitor

0.3 volts are lost in the conversion process

Sometimes they say that the battery is used only for the initial spark
Sometimes they say it is used to drive the electric motor

The battery has been 5 months without recharging

They claim self-sustaining, this was the goal in the initial project

I thought it was a green project, now I have my doubts.


http://youtu.be/nEPpQuDYId4
Small appearance on the minute 6:16

Another interesting link:
http://www.noticiasnet.mx/portal/oaxaca/general/educativas/274215-neuropower-del-cobao

Regards

I just got a message from Victor. He wrote:

Hola soy el creador de r-walker. Una disculpa por no haber contestado antes este mensaje estabamos preparando nuestro viaje a rumania. Ahorita estamos en la competencia infomatrix y lo estamos presentado.. Mucho gusto mi nombre es victor ricardo matias garcia.
Que es lo que te gustaria conocer acerca del r-walker.

Means:

Hello I am the creator of r-walker. An apology for not answering before this message we were preparing our trip to Romania. We are right now in the Infomatrix competition and we are presented .. Much like my name is victor ricardo matias garcia.
What do you like to know about the r-walker.

I wrote then back:

Hi Victor,
many thanks for answering.
Yes, I have seen that you went to Romania for this competition.
I hope you will win there.
Well, you have a pretty long name, I hope it is okay when I just call you Victor ?
I am writing this via the Google Translator website because I can not speak Spanish language.
I can only speak German language, my mother language and English language.
I hope the translation via Google Translator is readable for you.

Well, we are all very exited about your invention.
Is it only a range extender so you can drive further with one battery charge ?
Or do you really need not to charge your battery at all ?

Some people speculated that the Reuters report on your bike device had a wrong translation and your circuit might be only a range extender circuit, so you can drive longer with one battery charge ?

Otherwise will you soon publish some more data about it ?
Are you going to Open Source this technology ?

Are you using the BackEMF from the motor to recharge your Super Capacitors
and thus recharge your battery ?
Or do you have invented a special "back drag" free generator ?
Normally you always have the Lenz law against you to generate enough energy in the generator to overcome the losses.

So can you tell us some more information about this ?
Maybe some other people can try to replicate it and confirm your circuit ?

Many thanks.
Looking forward to hear more from you.
Regards, Stefan.

He writes back:

Bueno. Bien se save que en el mundo todo tiene que detenerse en alguna ocasion. Las maquinas de tiempo perpetuo no existen. Ni nada es para siempre. ... La r-walker tiene un sistema de generacion de energia que aprovecha la traccion del motor y la velocidad de las ruedas.bien lo comentas hay perdidas de voltaje. Sin embargo la bateria dura entre 11 y 13 meses con una sola recarga. Esto nos da a entender que el extensor de vida de una sola carga es bastante. Por lo que su rendimiento es autosustentable..
No te preocupes. Me puedes llamar victor. Espero no sea complicado poder traducir este mensaje a ingles. Mi lengua materna es español y me es un poco conplicado poder. Escribir el ingles.

Google tells me the translation is:

Good . Well you save that in the world everything has to stop sometime. Perpetual time machines do not exist. Nothing is forever. ... The r -walker has a power generation system that uses the traction motor and the speed of what you comment ruedas.bien no voltage losses . However the battery lasts between 11 and 13 months on a single charge . This implies that we Extender life from a single charge is enough. So its performance is self-sustaining ..
Do not worry . You can call me victor . I hope not complicated to translate this message into English . My mother tongue is Spanish and I is a bit conplicado power. Write English .

Hi Stefan, appreciate the info, but I personally think it would be a good idea to let Victor know that you plan to
post his messages to you here in a public forum, if you haven't already, and get his permission to do so first. Otherwise
he might not be very happy if he finds out you are posting his messages here in a public forum.
Just to be on the safe side that he is fully OK with it. :)

With the information that Victor just stated about the battery going on one charge for many, many months,
Victor is likely to get all sorts of insults and very rude comments from certain members here... In my vew, he should probably 
be made aware of this likelihood as well. He may not wish to have his comments posted publicly here if he knows the
kind of reaction that will likely (actually definitely) occur here.

All the best...

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 16, 2015, 10:13:10 AM
la velocidad de las ruedas

The speed of the wheels

Quote from: Void on May 16, 2015, 10:17:00 AM
Hi Stefan, appreciate the info, but I personally think it would be a good idea to let Victor know that you plan to
post his messages to you here in a public forum, if you haven't already, and get his permission to do so first. Otherwise
he might not be very happy if he finds out you are posting his messages here in a public forum.
Just to be on the safe side that he is fully OK with it. :)

With the information that Victor just stated about the battery going on one charge for many, many months,
Victor is likely to get all sorts of insults and very rude comments from certain members here... In my vew, he should probably 
be made aware of this likelihood as well. He may not wish to have his comments posted publicly here if he knows the
kind of reaction that will likely (actually definitely) occur here.

All the best...

Hi All,

+1

It must take into account that it is a minor.

To clarify translation:
"... La r-walker tiene un sistema de generacion de energia que aprovecha la traccion del motor y la velocidad de las ruedas.bien lo comentas hay perdidas de voltaje"

"The r -walker has a power generation system that uses the traction motor and the SPEED OF THE WHEELS.
YES, THERE ARE LOSSES OF VOLTAGE"

The comment that it loses .3 of a volt is a completely meaningless term.
Is this a translation error?

The first sentence translates to:



Right
It is to save the world - everything has to stop sometime.

Quote from: a.king21 on May 16, 2015, 09:45:46 PM
The first sentence translates to:



Right
It is to save the world - everything has to stop sometime.

Exactly, which does not really go with the term "self-sustaining." 

Stefan did a great job of getting this fellow to communicate with him.  Obviously, there are still some translations issues but, knowing Stefan, he will get to the bottom of it.  I really do not believe that these kids are making any OU claims, or any other wild claims with their device.  They do appear to be proud of the way it works and, since they are showing it at various contests, there must be something new about it.

I look forward to finding out exactly what they have built over there.  I do agree we need to give them the benefit of the doubt until we fully understand what the real workings are.

Bill

A couple of stills from the vid:-

Hartiberlin:


Stefan, why don't you ask them to submit it for your OU prize?

Quote from: a.king21 on May 16, 2015, 10:11:13 PM
Hartiberlin:


Stefan, why don't you ask them to submit it for your OU prize?

I can now see from your photos that those "exhaust pipes" are just there for decoration.  For looks.  They obviously are not connected to anything but the frame it seems.  That bike seems pretty small too.  Smaller than I thought it was.  The design looks pretty compact and they managed to stuff everything they needed in side that little frame.  That is a good design execution and it appears that a lot of thought went into this.  I hope they win the prize over there.  (Not the OU prize, the one wherever they are in Europe for the design.)

Bill

Looks like it has a flat tire!

Quote from: a.king21 on May 16, 2015, 09:45:46 PM
The first sentence translates to:
"Well you save that in the world everything has to stop sometime."

Right
It is to save the world - everything has to stop sometime.

No, I think that was actually a mistranslation due to Victor making a typing mistake on one letter. :) What I think Victor actually meant to type was:
"Bien se sabe que en el mundo todo tiene que detenerse en alguna ocasion."
This translates to:
It is well known that in the world everything has to stop sometime.

What a difference just one letter can make... ;)

All the best...

Quote from: Hhx on May 16, 2015, 08:40:10 AM
They claim self-sustaining, this was the goal in the initial project
I thought it was a green project, now I have my doubts.

Yes, I agree. It really does appear that Victor is saying that the dynamo mounted on the bike is
somehow keeping the battery charged and powering the bike motor, and this is why he says it is self sustaining. :)
I have read various comments from Victor, and that really seems to be what he has been saying, as strange as
that may seem. ;) 
All the best...

Quote from: Void on May 17, 2015, 12:43:24 AM
Yes, I agree. It really does appear that Victor is saying that the dynamo mounted on the bike is
somehow keeping the battery charged and powering the bike motor, and this is why he says it is self sustaining. :)
I have read various comments from Victor, and that really seems to be what he has been saying, as strange as
that may seem. ;) 
All the best...

I agree, I think it is very clear what he has been saying from the start.
If you have ever lived of the grid and used only solar and wind to recharge your power needs you would understand better.
He found that he can recover a good percentage of power but over the long run he has a power deficit, (runs out of battery power).  This is because his consumption is greater than his recovery if measured over an extended period of time.
The deception/confusion is in the data given, being the time period. To make sense it should also include distance driven and a relative terrain property used (hilly or flat). Not to forget the battery capacity's influence on time duration.

If you compare this to living of the grid you see the similarity. Assuming a relative consistent daily power consumption, the duration you can go before you need to start the petrol generator would depend on the amount of sunshine and wind conditions received over the period as external factors.

OVERUNITY in this case is allowing your wishful imagination getting the better of you

Regards, Red_Sunset

Okay, another answer from Victor:

Sii esta bien. Puedes publicar la informacion.. Bueno con una sola carga la moto de puede desplazar a 30 kilometros por hora con un peso maximo de 100 kilogramos sobre ella... Si tiene un sistema especial de generacion de energia.produce 18 volts con 2 amper. Pero cuando pasa por los tanques de almacenamiento. Se eleva hasta 42 volts y 1500 whats. ,si tambien se utiliza el backemf del motor ,de tal manera que el motor funciona como generador a la par.


English translation via Google Translator:

Sii right. You can post information .. Well on a single charge the bike can move at 30 kilometers per hour with a maximum weight of 100 kilograms on it ... If you have a special system generation energia.produce 18 volts with 2 ampere. But when passing through the storage tanks. It rises to 42 volts and 1500 whats. if also the engine BackEMF used
  , so that the motor acts as generator to par.

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 10:40:39 AM
Okay, another answer from Victor:

Sii esta bien. Puedes publicar la informacion.. Bueno con una sola carga la moto de puede desplazar a 30 kilometros por hora con un peso maximo de 100 kilogramos sobre ella... Si tiene un sistema especial de generacion de energia.produce 18 volts con 2 amper. Pero cuando pasa por los tanques de almacenamiento. Se eleva hasta 42 volts y 1500 whats. ,si tambien se utiliza el backemf del motor ,de tal manera que el motor funciona como generador a la par.


English translation via Google Translator:

Sii right. You can post information .. Well on a single charge the bike can move at 30 kilometers per hour with a maximum weight of 100 kilograms on it ... If you have a special system generation energia.produce 18 volts with 2 ampere. But when passing through the storage tanks. It rises to 42 volts and 1500 whats. if also the engine BackEMF used
  , so that the motor acts as generator to par.

Stefan:

This appears to say that they can take 36 watts and pass that through the storage tanks (caps?) and get 1,500 watts?  I am still not sure what this means but, I am happy that he will write to you.  What do you make of this?

Bill

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 10:40:39 AM
Okay, another answer from Victor:

Sii esta bien. Puedes publicar la informacion.. Bueno con una sola carga la moto de puede desplazar a 30 kilometros por hora con un peso maximo de 100 kilogramos sobre ella... Si tiene un sistema especial de generacion de energia.produce 18 volts con 2 amper. Pero cuando pasa por los tanques de almacenamiento. Se eleva hasta 42 volts y 1500 whats. ,si tambien se utiliza el backemf del motor ,de tal manera que el motor funciona como generador a la par.

English translation via Google Translator:
Sii right. You can post information .. Well on a single charge the bike can move at 30 kilometers per hour with a maximum weight of 100 kilograms on it ... If you have a special system generation energia.produce 18 volts with 2 ampere. But when passing through the storage tanks. It rises to 42 volts and 1500 whats. if also the engine BackEMF used
  , so that the motor acts as generator to par.

That was very nice of Victor to explain the principle. This seems pretty clear.
I wonder if Victor will tell you what specific type of electric motor he is using?
An AC induction motor or a brushless DC motor, or something else?
All the best...

Google lost in translation  :P . Here my version:

Yes it is all right. You can post the information ..
Well, on a single charge the bike can move at 30 kilometers per hour with a maximum weight of 100 kilograms on it .
Yes it has a special system for energy generation. It produces 18 volts at 2 A. But when passing through the storage tanks, it rises to 42 volts and 1500 wats.
Yes,  also the engine BackEMF is used so that the motor works as a generator as well.

hope this helps
cheers

New Answer from Victor:

Gracias por los buenos deseos. Asi es sigo en rumania, mañana es la premiacion del concurso infomatrix. El dia martes regreso a mexico. Claro que esa tecnologia esta diseñada para los pobres para ayudar a la humanidad. Y dejar. A un lado los pensamientos elitistas que bloquean el acceso a personas de bajos recursos a la tecnologia.. Por ahora no puedo publicar ningun diagramas. Sera en unos meses cuando ya se de libremente esta en prosceso de patente. Ahora.

Si es un viejo motor con escobillas de grafito. Se tiene un generador de alto impacto de campos magneticos


Google translation:

Thanks for the good wishes . So it is still in Romania , tomorrow the awards ceremony of the contest Infomatrix .
On Tuesday back to mexico . Clearly, this technology is designed for the poor to help humanity. And leave .
On one side the elitist thoughts that block access to low- technology resources ..
For now I can not post any diagrams.
It will be in a few months when he was already in prosceso freely this patent . Now .

Further info:

Prefiero trabajar con frecuencias continuas estables. Los picos pueden dañar la regeneracion electrica.

I prefer to work with stable continuous frequencies. The peaks can damage the electrical regeneration.

I asked:

I see.
But how do you convert 36 Watts  into 1500 Watts ?
Do you have modified the motor ?
Do you use additional magnets and coils inside it ?

Answer:
En difinitiva se tiene que alterar los campos magneticos


In difinitiva it has to alter the magnetic fields

Probably it means, one must definaltely change the magnetic fields...

I asked:

I see.
so you changed the whole motor configuration with all its internal coils and
magnets ?

Answer:

Asi es.
Se modifico el motor.

So it is.
The engine was modified.

Next question from me was:

Do you convert the 12 Volts from the battery to 42 Volts and then you energize ( pulse)  the motor coils with this 42 Volts ? And the BackEMF is then stored in the Super Capacitors ?

Answer:

Es el mismo calibre de cable..el convertidor solo es para disminuir el voltaje para no quemar los componentes.

It's the same caliber cable..el converter is only to decrease the voltage to avoid burning components.

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 03:49:36 PM
I asked:

I see.
so you changed the whole motor configuration with all its internal coils and
magnets ?

Answer:

Asi es.
Se modifico el motor.

So it is.
The engine was modified.

Given the language barriers and also the high possiblity that there is misunderstanding on the part of the teens who built this bike, I suggest that you ask:

1) What are the battery ratings:  Voltage and amp hours or Watt hours.
2) What specific tests were performed to determine the bike's capabilities:  How far did the bike go, and was that over a closed circuit, and what was the terrain, and with how heavy a rider before the battery needed to be recharged.

I asked:
But you said, you used 42 volts to drive the motor?
So did you increase the Voltage ?


answer:


Asi es se aumenta la tension del motor. Pero me refiero a la disminucion de voltaje de algunos componentes.
Que estan previos a la generacion de energia


So is the motor voltage is increased. But I mean the voltage decrease of some components.
They are before power generation

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 04:16:30 PM
I asked:
But you said, you used 42 volts to drive the motor?
So did you increase the Voltage ?


answer:


Asi es se aumenta la tension del motor. Pero me refiero a la disminucion de voltaje de algunos componentes.
Que estan previos a la generacion de energia


So is the motor voltage is increased. But I mean the voltage decrease of some components.
They are before power generation

Stefan this sounds like they use a buck converter to generate low voltage for logic, say if they have an Arduino or some other microcontroller board running off 5V or 3.3V, and a boost converter to run the electric motor. 

the motor modification has something to do with ufopolitics's assymetry concept ?

Quote from: MarkE on May 17, 2015, 04:26:41 PM
Stefan this sounds like they use a buck converter to generate low voltage for logic, say if they have an Arduino or some other microcontroller board running off 5V or 3.3V, and a boost converter to run the electric motor.

So, possibly a Joule Thief for an electric bike then?  But, if they are simply stepping up the voltage and using pulses, that would not account
for converting 36 watts into 1500 watts right?  Obviously still some translation and communications issues here.  Also, it sounds like they want to file a patent on this so, exact details might be withheld anyway.

All in all, it is still very interesting, and puzzling at the same time.

Bill

Good info Stefan. It is a little hard to determine if he is talking completely about the electric drive motor,
or also referring to the dynamo as an electric motor as well. Maybe he would only refer to the dynamo
generator as a dynamo however. It may well be that he made modifications to both the electric drive motor
and the dynamo generator, as he previously mentioned in an interview about spending time on the dynamo, I believe.

All the best...

I asked then:

Yes, I see, the super capacitors have only a limited voltage.
But how do you increase the amperes ?

Answer:

Aumentando frecuencias constantes. Sin tomar sobrantes

Increasing constant frequencies. Without taking leftovers

Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 17, 2015, 04:34:19 PM
So, possibly a Joule Thief for an electric bike then?  But, if they are simply stepping up the voltage and using pulses, that would not account
for converting 36 watts into 1500 watts right?  Obviously still some translation and communications issues here.  Also, it sounds like they want to file a patent on this so, exact details might be withheld anyway.

All in all, it is still very interesting, and puzzling at the same time.

Bill

Suppose they have a 3Ah 12V battery.  That could be misinterpreted as a 36W battery when it is a 36Wh battery.  There is a huge difference.  When dealing with batteries, particularly high C rate batteries like NiCd, NiMH, or Li-ion, C rates of over 50: full discharge in just over one minute are possible with some cells.  A 36Wh battery discharged at a C50 rate delivers 1800W for that short time.

However, here they have a couple of 1.5F super capacitors.  For milliseconds those capacitors can deliver rather high power.  But they have only about 100J to give before they are fully depleted.

Did you increase the frequency in the generator or in the motor ?

Answer:

Ambos

In both.

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 04:41:04 PM
I asked then:
Yes, I see, the super capacitors have only a limited voltage.
But how do you increase the amperes ?

Answer:
Aumentando frecuencias constantes. Sin tomar sobrantes
Increasing constant frequencies. Without taking leftovers

Well, that response is a puzzle... :)

"Without taking leftovers"
Without taking excess? Excess of what? This one is not clear... :)

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 04:46:25 PM
Did you increase the frequency in the generator or in the motor ?

Answer:
Ambos

In both.

Must be talking about increasing the RPM then I would think...

I asked further,
also the questions from MarkE about battery capacity and usage.
Also,
How do you do it that when the generator is producing power, that he does not brake the motor ?

Answer:

Las pruebas especificas de la moto han sido 32 horas continuas de uso. Por 5 mesos en diferentes terrenos
Pierde voltaje en las. Subidas. Pero recupera el doble eb bajadas

Google Translation:
Specific evidence of the bike have been 32 hours of continuous use. For 5 mesos in various fields
Lose voltage on. Increases. But recovers downs twice eb

Fucking Google translator... why is the translation so bad!!! GRrrr...

New question:

Are you recharging the battery with Voltage pulses or with constant DC current ?

Answer:
Pulsos de tension. La corriente continua es inestable
Por lo que debes cargar con pulsos
Son mas estables y constantes

Voltage pulses. The DC is unstable
So you carry pulses
They are more stable and steady

New questions:
I see. Yes, pulsing is good for the battery. As the ions are slower than the electrons you can win energy this way, if you always pulse the battery back with high voltage pulses. I have seen this also in my experiments that this way a battery is running longer on the same load !

Answer:
Asi es.
Me da gusto que tus experimentos esten funcionando

So it is.
I'm glad that your experiments are functioning


Question:
So you drive the motor from the battery for a few milliseconds with voltage and then toggle the electronic switch and recharge the battery for a few milliseconds and do this back and forth ?


Answer:


Ese podria ser su funcionamiento en general,

That might be the general functioning,

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
I asked further,
also the questions from MarkE about battery capacity and usage.
Also,
How do you do it that when the generator is producing power, that he does not brake the motor ?

Answer:

Las pruebas especificas de la moto han sido 32 horas continuas de uso. Por 5 mesos en diferentes terrenos
Pierde voltaje en las. Subidas. Pero recupera el doble eb bajadas

Google Translation:
Specific evidence of the bike have been 32 hours of continuous use. For 5 mesos in various fields
Lose voltage on. Increases. But recovers downs twice eb

Fucking Google translator... why is the translation so bad!!! GRrrr...

http://biblehub.com/greek/3319.htm (http://biblehub.com/greek/3319.htm)
mesos: middle, in the midstOriginal Word: μέσος, η, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: mesos
Phonetic Spelling: (mes'-os)
Short Definition: middle, in the middle
Definition: middle, in the middle, between, in the midst of.

Stefan, maybe this will help?

Bill

My answer:

I see, so it is only small discharge and bigger charge effect... so the battery does keep its voltage steady as it is not allowed to discharge much, but is recharged again after a few milliseconds again... So you are basically keeping the ions at the battery plates.
But you use the faster electrons in the battery to drive the motor... so you probably use the effect the slow movement of the ions in the battery, so the battery does not discharge, although you have drawn lots of power from it.

His answer:

Espero poder haber aclarado sus dudas
En general.
No puedo dar datos mas exactos
Por el tema de patente. Esta es una invension patentada y cualquier replica de esto puede generar demandas
Es por ello que guardo modelos y marcas

Translation:

I hope to have clarified their doubts
In general.
I can not give more accurate data
On the issue of patent. This is a proprietary invension and any replica of this can generate demands
That is why I keep models and brands

My answer:
Well, thank you very much Victor.
Well, a patent is not a good idea.
It is expensive and large companies can change some things and then patent it
themselves.
And then you have to sue them. Then it just depends who have better lawyers and more money to fight each other and usually a big company has more money and the small inventor loses the battle ...
That is why the crowdfunding and Technology Open Source is much better ..
then you still have to pay nothing for a patent worldwide.
Then you get the money crowdfunding. Take a look at kickstarter.com or indigogo.com
If a patent is registered does not mean you can make money from it.
It is expensive and as I said, the small inventor is always delivered by large corporations ... so you better be careful ...

ANswer:

Gracias por el apoyo y sobre todo por los datos que me esta proporcionando. La patente simplemente es como un elemento de proteccion de las grandes empresas petroleras. Que intentaran quitarme esto algun dia . pero la ide. Mas que nada es apoyar a la gente pobre con menos. Dinero. En donde yo vivo muchos jovenes caminan entre 2 y 5 horas para llegar a la escuela. Por tanto el proyecto esta basado en ese tipo de problemas,


En mexico es la unica manera que tenemos de protegernos los inventores. Patentando. Pero me parece mucho mejor la ide de esta pagina que usted me esta dando
Seria fantastico ttabajar en conjunto para mejorar par la gente pobre

Translation:
Thanks for your support and especially the data is providing me. The patent simply as an element of protection of big oil companies. They tried to take this away someday. but the ide. More than anything is to support poor people with less. Money. Where I live many young people walk between 2 and 5 hours to get to school. Therefore the project is based on such problems,

In mexico is the only way we can protect inventors. Patenting. But I feel much better ide of this product that you are giving me
Fantastic serious ttabajar pair together to improve poor people

Maybe someone who can really speak well spanish can re-translate it in proper English and
post a summary here.
Many thanks.

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 06:21:48 PM
I asked further,
also the questions from MarkE about battery capacity and usage.
Also,
How do you do it that when the generator is producing power, that he does not brake the motor ?

Answer:

Las pruebas especificas de la moto han sido 32 horas continuas de uso. Por 5 mesos en diferentes terrenos
Pierde voltaje en las. Subidas. Pero recupera el doble eb bajadas

Google Translation:
Specific evidence of the bike have been 32 hours of continuous use. For 5 mesos in various fields
Lose voltage on. Increases. But recovers downs twice eb

Fucking Google translator... why is the translation so bad!!! GRrrr...

Well my human Spanish to English translation is:

"The specific evidence has been 32 hours continuous use for five months on different terrains.  It loses voltage climbing but recuperates voltage going downhill."

You know my well established position on energy:  If properly accounted, it always balances out.  The statements as offered I do not believe.

Well, I recognize the keys and parts he is using. They are of a chinese e-scooter. First I thought that the R of R-Walker stands for Rotovertor. At least the two capacitors remember me at a circuit from this site: https://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/
When I see the motor it's maybe the same I got in my e-scooter. It's a 24/36V/48V DC pulse controlled one. May be he is using the low state of the pulstrain to charge the capacitors. On the right lower side there is a chrome round device. I suppose that it can be a generator so nearby the chain. This circuit shows the principle how the capacitors are being charged and decharged:
Berto

@Berto3 ,
many thanks for your circuit diagram.

I further send him this message:

Hi Vic,
Well try to use the power of the Internet. Now you already have a lot of fans at overunity.com.
Try to start a kickstarter oder an indigogo campaign to receive money for the circuit diagram. this way you can earn very quickly some money and later you can write a book about your invention and sell it. This way you can make much more money than from any patent and also your friends in Mexico can benefit from it, if you release the circuit diagram after the crowdfunding campaign to the public in Open Source technology. So all your friends in Mexico can build then them self such a motorbike.
Some other people also have made very good money from crowdfunding their inventions. Also I would make advertisement for your crowdfunding. I have over 70.000 members in my overunity.com forum. so all you have to do is to start a campaign on one of the big crowdfunding platforms. This can be done in just one day and you already can make money this way ! Think about this !

Quote from: hartiberlin on May 17, 2015, 07:00:06 PM
My answer:
Well, thank you very much Victor.
Well, a patent is not a good idea.
It is expensive and large companies can change some things and then patent it
themselves.
And then you have to sue them. Then it just depends who have better lawyers and more money to fight each other and usually a big company has more money and the small inventor loses the battle ...
That is why the crowdfunding and Technology Open Source is much better ..
then you still have to pay nothing for a patent worldwide.
Then you get the money crowdfunding. Take a look at kickstarter.com or indigogo.com
If a patent is registered does not mean you can make money from it.
It is expensive and as I said, the small inventor is always delivered by large corporations ... so you better be careful ...

ANswer:

Gracias por el apoyo y sobre todo por los datos que me esta proporcionando. La patente simplemente es como un elemento de proteccion de las grandes empresas petroleras. Que intentaran quitarme esto algun dia . pero la ide. Mas que nada es apoyar a la gente pobre con menos. Dinero. En donde yo vivo muchos jovenes caminan entre 2 y 5 horas para llegar a la escuela. Por tanto el proyecto esta basado en ese tipo de problemas,


En mexico es la unica manera que tenemos de protegernos los inventores. Patentando. Pero me parece mucho mejor la ide de esta pagina que usted me esta dando
Seria fantastico ttabajar en conjunto para mejorar par la gente pobre

Translation:
Thanks for your support and especially the data is providing me. The patent simply as an element of protection of big oil companies. They tried to take this away someday. but the ide. More than anything is to support poor people with less. Money. Where I live many young people walk between 2 and 5 hours to get to school. Therefore the project is based on such problems,

In mexico is the only way we can protect inventors. Patenting. But I feel much better ide of this product that you are giving me
Fantastic serious ttabajar pair together to improve poor people

Thank you for your support and the information you have given me.  A patent is for protection from the big oil companies.  They want to try to stop me one day.  But here it is important to support the poor.  Where I live many children walk two to five hours to school.  This project is based on such problems.  In Mexico patents are the only way to protect inventors.  But I like the idea that you gave me.  It is fantastic to work with together for the poor.

Hi Stefan. I think the reason some of his answers are a bit vague or unclear is probably that he may not have fully understood
your questions or points in some cases, and also that he doesn't want to reveal too much because he plans to patent his invention.
In such a case he also may have deliberately said a few things which are not correct to throw off any potential replicators. ;)
I say this because I think anyone who plans to patent an invention would probably be inclined to do the same if
someone is asking a lot of questions looking for specific details. :)

Hi
I remember in one of the thread  60ah battery maybe dead  somebody suggested to use the  e scooter speed controller with 24 v volts  to fast charge a drained battery in a car I think this can be used  for the caps charging  8)

Quote from: Void on May 17, 2015, 07:41:17 PM
Hi Stefan. I think the reason some of his answers are a bit vague or unclear is probably that he may not have fully understood
your questions or points in some cases, and also that he doesn't want to reveal too much because he plans to patent his invention.
In such a case he also may have deliberately said a few things which are not correct to throw off any potential replicators. ;)
I say this because I think anyone who plans to patent an invention would probably be inclined to do the same if
someone is asking a lot of questions looking for specific details. :)

He's going to have a devil of a time patenting an electric scooter.

Hi All,

I agree with MarkE's translation, all right.

mesos=meses=months

A detail:
"Pierde voltaje en las. Subidas. Pero recupera el doble eb bajadas"

" It loses voltage climbing but recuperates voltage going downhill."

Uphill loss = 1x
Downhill gain = 2x

In levelled road = 0x (I believe)

Regards

On Endless-sphere I found an interesting threat from 2009 about the Ultracap Bike. If the regeneration storing in caps is better or more efficient than a li-ion battery you have to find out yourself, watch:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7511&start=25
One specific item really interested me.

"Regeneration: In industry commercial inverters are used to vary AC motor speeds by intentionally changing the frequency supplied to the motor. If you overspeed the motor, the motor is returning the power back to its power supply. When you use an inverter that has a variable frequency capability, you turn the frequency down and your motor is a generator, returning its power to the controller, until your new reduced speed is reached. Or you can have a over running load, like when you drive your AC motor powered tractor down a hill, and your motor is a generator.
Here is the problem in industry: Most AC inverters cannot return the excess power to the power line. There is a diode bridge that takes AC power and charges a capacitor bank. (There are a very few specialized AC inverters that use a bi-directional bridge of transistors to charge the capacitors or return power to the AC line.) With diodes that is strictly a one way trip. The capacitor bank is connected to the motor via a bridge of transistors or gate turn off SCRs. This bridge is bi-directional. So whenever the motor is a generator, the capacitor bank is charged up and potentially overcharged. Some drives turn off to protect the controller. Some drives switch on a resistor to dump the excess energy. Here we are not really regenerative, although the motor does not know any better.
If you were to replace the capacitor bank with batteries, like some electric cars, you now have the ability to absorb a lot of energy from the motor, and you can easily be regenerative over the entire speed range of the motor, whereas to regenerate with a DC motor you need to do tricks with field windings and still may not be regenerative over the entire speed range."

"A patent is for protection from the big oil companies.  They want to try to stop me one day"
It's funny how FE inventors worry about that, while multi-billion alternative energy companies don't.
Why doesn't 'Big Oil' go after them?

http://www.google.com/patents/US3809978 (http://www.google.com/patents/US3809978)
probably with a better motor and generator and instead the batteries using capacitors they get the better performance.

But they/he told us that they wish to patent their invention
they/he did not writing that this should be worldwide.

Bringing this to the exposition means that they applied before the Expos in Spain and Romenia.

I'm going to start working on a replication. It seems to me that it is related to Don Smith's references to super capacitors. Watch the #6 video of his 2005 lecture. Two super caps can shuttle energy through a motor recharging each other. A super capacitor in series "looks" like a wire to the flow of current until it charges to a certain amount. The current that would have been wasted flowing into the positive side of a battery or super cap, without the cap in series with the load, is collected for free. You would have to use a boost converter so the charges wouldn't balance out. I have some 150W models that turn on at 10v. One thing about these boosters is that the output is stabilized so if the cap that is feeding it is draining from 16v to 10v, the output stays at a constant voltage.  Once the collection capacitor is charged to 16 volts or so, the circuit changes so that the collecting super cap in now feeding the load and the other super cap is now acting as the collector in series with the load. I don't know if I'm smart enough to design the switching circuit though. Maybe someone would help me with that part. It would need to be voltage controlled somehow. Arduino may have a use here. There may need to be a small generator connected to the drive system of the scooter to make up for what is not recovered in the storage caps. I apologize for any obvious or rhetorical statements that I may have made. 

Too bad that it doesn't work.

I also have a 10 farad car audio cap(PCX10F) in the shape of a car amp that I disassembled to check out and test the two large caps inside. When I opened her up, the first things I saw were six 10F 2.7v caps wired in series. Those were in parallel with two 2inch dia. 8in long aluminum cans that I wanted to test. After disconnecting them from the bus bars I tested each by charging to 14 volts then discharging through a 47ohm resistor. After doing some math, they came out to around 0.2F or 200mf each. Lesson learned. Here's a video about building large value super caps for really cheap. I found 10F 2.7v caps for $1.50ea if anyone wants to build there own super cap bank.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTt_YBzJ_Dk

@memoryman


What doesn't work?

The AEG.

I'm not sure anyone has been able to replicate the concept that Don "omitted" from the AEG paper. The most important info was not included.

" The most important info was not included." That is usually the case with OU claims; avoids the need to explain why it cannot and does not work.

Quote from: memoryman on May 21, 2015, 01:07:15 PM
" The most important info was not included." That is usually the case with OU claims; avoids the need to explain why it cannot and does not work.

Where is your proof.

Les Paul 109.  The concept is not new. Don Smith didn't know about Carlos Benitez.
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB191505591A.pdf (http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB191505591A.pdf)


Page 5 paragraph 5 makes exactly the same claim.

Thanks for the link! Wish I could understand it better.

Les PAul 109:;
http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB191417811A.pdf


page 5 parag 5  the claim is repeated.


So 2 granted patents using the same principle of electrostatic induction.

Quote from: lespaul109 on May 21, 2015, 08:03:02 PM
Thanks for the link! Wish I could understand it better.

It took me 4 weeks to understand it  -  Full Time.
I built the second patent. It only worked for 2 mins at a time because my trafos were the wrong spec.
In fact everything was wrong, some just worse than others, but I established the principle.
Then I built the third one and it worked a treat.



You'll also have to get a 19th century pdf on electrical terms
(Google is your friend here).

Which one is the "3rd" one?

Quote from: lespaul109 on May 21, 2015, 08:47:04 PM
Which one is the "3rd" one?

http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Patents/Benitez/GB191514311A.pdf


But this one requires 4 batteries.

I have 2 of those capacitors like on the bike this thread is about. These are not really super caps. Quite large for 1 farad. Were used heavily in the car audio industry years ago. They are pretty leaky as in they drop their stand alone voltage pretty quickly down to between 6 and 9v. 20v rated, but drops faster at 20v and slows getting down in the 6 to 9v range and drains slower.

Seems like a bit of a loss to add these to a self powering device.  Would be better to use an bank of smaller, less leaky caps.

I also have an alumapro 50 farad cap that is so leaky, they give you a 100a relay to turn to connect and disconnect with the ign on then off as to not drain the battery over night. If you run 4awg power and gnd to the cap using the relay and the wires are not tied down, the 4awg cables will move, flinch when the relay is activated.  Provides a good punch to amplifier input current since the battery is typically 15 to 20 ft of power cable away, amps in trunk. But there is waste factor. Of course, car audio is not OU of any sort, so these losses are mostly ignored.


Probably better to use a bank of real super caps in series to be able to handle the voltage level needed, then parallel for more storage and lower total internal bank resistance as compared to just a single series bank. Say 6 super caps in series bank is 6 times the internal resistance of 1 cap. So 6 series banks of 6 caps each would equal the same total resistance as 1 cap.  So smaller super caps and more parallel banks of them of them would be best.

Mags

Ok guys, this may have been obvious to some, but it was driving me crazy. I couldn't identify the type of generator that was near the rear wheel. After talking with a friend of mine, he gave me the idea to look for bike generators(dynamos). They seem to restrict the view of that side of the scooter IMO. This is what I found. It would be easy to modify the coil winding, if it's not stock.

  Makes me wonder why they don't put a dynamo on the front wheel to double the output, as well.
  However, the small bike generator doesn't look like it's powerful enough to be able to sustain or to re-charge the battery,  while running the scooter at 25kph. 
  But, there must be something to this, or they wouldn't be going around the world showing it as a self-sustaining vehicle.
   
   Is there any more news lately about this project, after their last shows?

I think they drive the dynamo with the drive belt for the back wheel to get the right rpm to speed ratio.

Diagram

Thought I would share this store I found today for super caps.


http://stores.ebay.com/aerobot/

Has anyone pulled the patent addition # 5591 for carlos f.benitez the date was 14th of april 1915 ?
I dont seen to be able to find it .saw. some of it and its a simplfied view of the power generation principle. Thanks jim

Quote from: jimbo on May 24, 2015, 03:45:13 PM
Has anyone pulled the patent addition # 5591 for carlos f.benitez the date was 14th of april 1915 ?
I dont seen to be able to find it .saw. some of it and its a simplfied view of the power generation principle. Thanks jim

Hi Jim,

I did find the attached on my backup disk, do not know if this is what you are searching for.
Also see: http://www.slideshare.net/zerofieldenergy/patents-carlos-benitez-system-for-the-generation-of-electric-currents-1915
And here: http://www.overunity.com/14631/carlos-benitez-patent-no-17811-circuit-drawing-self-runner/
Also, found pdf, attached here.

GL.

Quote from: Groundloop on May 24, 2015, 11:04:07 PM
Hi Jim,

I did find the attached on my backup disk, do not know if this is what you are searching for.
Also see: http://www.slideshare.net/zerofieldenergy/patents-carlos-benitez-system-for-the-generation-of-electric-currents-1915 (http://www.slideshare.net/zerofieldenergy/patents-carlos-benitez-system-for-the-generation-of-electric-currents-1915)
And here: http://www.overunity.com/14631/carlos-benitez-patent-no-17811-circuit-drawing-self-runner/ (http://www.overunity.com/14631/carlos-benitez-patent-no-17811-circuit-drawing-self-runner/)
Also, found pdf, attached here.

GL.

GL:

Thanks for posting this.  Does not a patent mean you have to have something unique and never done before? (Prior art)  So, no one ever did this before?  Maybe not, but it seems pretty basic and I would have thought someone would have used this approach earlier.

I am not for nor against these guys.  My only problem has been the use of the words "Self sustaining".  To me, this implies O.U.

What do you think of this patent?

Thanks,

Bill

Quote from: Pirate88179 on May 24, 2015, 11:40:55 PM
GL:

Thanks for posting this.  Does not a patent mean you have to have something unique and never done before? (Prior art)  So, no one ever did this before?  Maybe not, but it seems pretty basic and I would have thought someone would have used this approach earlier.

I am not for nor against these guys.  My only problem has been the use of the words "Self sustaining".  To me, this implies O.U.

What do you think of this patent?

Thanks,

Bill

Hi Bill,

The drawing in the patent can not work as I see it. The rectifiers is not connected correct.
I did try to make a cleaned up drawing of the left bottom part of the circuit diagram.

GL.

Benitez has 2 different circuits in that diagram. Circuit A and a circuit B.
The dotted lines are an alternative circuit B. - A simplified version if you wish.
The earth is continually switched on and off so the grounding acts as a pump in conjunction with the capacitors.
(In both circuits)

Quote from: Groundloop on May 25, 2015, 02:07:23 PM
Hi Bill,

The drawing in the patent can not work as I see it. The rectifiers is not connected correct.
I did try to make a cleaned up drawing of the left bottom part of the circuit diagram.

GL.

It looks like, if any of the circuits are correct, that the seemingly wrong way diodes can act as a spark gap using reverse breakdown voltage. If the cap is charged, then also the capacitance in the transformer is charged. Capacitance btween primary and secondary. If that charge exceeds the breakdown voltage of either diode then something happens, whether it is current through coil 59 and 58 is induced, or possibly something else.

Would probably be good to just try the simple config below with some tests before we say the diodes are in the wrong configuration. ;)

Mags

Quote from: Magluvin on May 25, 2015, 06:21:36 PM
It looks like, if any of the circuits are correct, that the seemingly wrong way diodes can act as a spark gap using reverse breakdown voltage. If the cap is charged, then also the capacitance in the transformer is charged. Capacitance btween primary and secondary. If that charge exceeds the breakdown voltage of either diode then something happens, whether it is current through coil 59 and 58 is induced, or possibly something else.

Would probably be good to just try the simple config below with some tests before we say the diodes are in the wrong configuration. ;)

Mags

Hi Mags,

Do you know the reverse breakdown voltage of mercury vapor rectifiers?

GL.

Quote from: Groundloop on May 25, 2015, 06:47:14 PM
Hi Mags,

Do you know the reverse breakdown voltage of mercury vapor rectifiers?

GL.

Hey GL

No I do not.  I guess it would depend on the device.  Have read something that they are noisy.

Mags

Hi guys im a little confused .in his patent gb191505591. He is using two sets of caps on series
And charging with a single primary cap thu an isolation transformer with each end of the secondary going to a cap string in series and earth grounded this should give less charge .but he walks thu it explaning how it doubles out put? Hes an electrical enginer. Im missing some thing does any one see it? Thanks jim g

Whats happen to the r-walker page? And the subject is missing from the index ? How do you
Contact the site controlers ?

@ Lespaul109

Please post a sketch or diagram of the Energy Pump that you describe below.


Thank you.
                                                                                                                    .

I would really like to have the same diagram!

It is now a year ago that this news was announced in this thread. Does anybody knows what happened with the R-Walker and the young team around this invention?
Is more known about the 'free energy' technics used with this bike? This item disappeared as quick as it came up. Who has some actual information?

I've been in contact with Raul Grajales through FBook, he's a really nice guy compared to the other guy. I do speak some spanish so I could understand most of what he tried to tell me. They now that the patent has been applied for, they are looking to license it to a larger company but haven't had any luck with that part. If they don't have a deal within a year(I assume this means from when they started looking for a license deal) they will give it to the people. At the moment they are working on a version to power a small car. I begged him to share some details, and he would if not for the other guys involved with the patent. I got pretty obsessed with this project but could go no further.

Raul Grajales (https://www.facebook.com/RAULGRAJALESGUZMAN)Queremos venderlo para hacer más y así darlos a la gente
Nosotros creemos que lo venderemos pero si no es así en un año lo daremos a la gente
Nosotros buscamos piezas usadasLa mayor parte de nuestros materiales son recicladosAmm no recuerdo cuanto habíamos calculadoEl diseño llevaba tres capacitoresPor que uno era solo de emergenciaPues cambiaría prácticamente todo el circuitoLa placa la integramos en un capacitor grande de auto
Hacer las dos cosas para poder ponerlo en un autoPues ahora solo seria modificarlo para poder montarlo en un medio de transporte

Oops, those are separate msgs that all got bunched together

Hi guys look at the index under real free energy with capacitors Thu induction some friends help get it posted. But the original layout is over on energetic form . if you need help just ask for some reason I can't post pictures here ??? Jim out . you know I might have that backwards .too many irons in the fire trying to keep track off everything .👍

Thanks Jimbo, I briefly saw that thread this morning while signing in to reply on this topic. I'll look into it more today.

The Walker bike stuff will probably just go nowhere if there going for a patent there going down the same road as others and it will be taken by the government or they will be bought off or disappeared. Look around do you see any 200 mpg carbs or sweets work around or Roberts work the advanced stuff any were ?.the guy with the microwave water to gas running the motor bike .is better at least he showed the tec .this self centered money grubbing. Hide the secret is what's screwinng everything up .the patent office is a honey dew pot .so they can have time to exam it then classify it nation security and pull it. If the big corps won't it they will take. It and tie them up in court. The value of a thing is in the thing it's self. Not in deals men make. I will be sir prized if it goes anywhere.weres teals motors at? And on and on.your being played. By your greed.you see don smith's work for sale anywhere??.  I will stop now. Sorry I've seen so much vanish .the Answers have come over and over yet were right back where we started. Jim out🍺

Wow so simple, it has to work.
Is he pulling from the ground or an antenna.

You could use a boost converter (joule thief) to positively charge one side of a cap and pull negative energy from the ground but how to release the energy? the negative will not leave the cap as long as the pos charge iz still there.
Could the pos be released back to the pos of the battery?

This deserves its own thread.

Dave, I too have been obsessed and racking my brain over what Don was getting at with the AEG! It's really been eating at me lately, it seems so simple. The cooling effect is the most interesting part that I read.

Pulling charge from the ground with a single cap is doable but not much free energy you need more caps then your getting in it. a lead acid battery is about 50% efficient so you'll need to use more caps to get over that hump. The thing about caps there close to 100%.  And cycle like a million times or more. I thought the Walker bike was using this type of recharging when I saw the big caps on it. You know if your pulling energy out of the environment things just might get cold. I just wish I could of come up with a way to use them as a charge sources that would have been very efficient. But due to the nature of caps. I couldn't. Jim out👍

I think that this is very close to what Kapanadze was doing. Here is the video my team made which I termed the aquarium 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXFWuwlg-0


He does require an earth ground or a heavy object.

Its about electron flow, i can see how to pull electrons from the ground but what then,
Run them into the neg side of a battery?
When charging a battery electrons are pumped off the pos an back into the neg so if we pull electrons from the ground an force them into the neg side of a battery how will this charge the battery?

I think you would need a ground and an antenna.

This would force electrons into the neg side of the bat but is it charging the battery?

I don't understand enough to comment on your diagram, Dave (nice to see you back). Perhaps someone else with more familiarity with circuits will. 

I would like to offer some of my own observations about what I think might be going on in this self sustaining motor-generator setup.

1.   Open System Configuration. This setup is likely an open system. From outward appearances, it might look like a closed system, but the dynamics of what is going on in its wiring and (likely fairly simple) circuitry seem to indicate that it is drawing power from the ambient to overcome losses and supply enough charge to make the system self-sustaining.
2.   Using (not negating) Lenz' Law. The builders may have found a way to take advantage of Lenz' law, to harness the positive and negative sides of the duty cycle.
3.   Resonance. The setup may be operating at a self-resonant frequency with or without harmonics, to minimize reactive losses.
4.   Partnered output coils / series bifilar windings. There seems to be ample evidence that this kind of coil config can produce >1 COP effects due to its interaction with the ambient medium and its energies.
5.   Don Smith Effect.  This effect with capacitors has already been expressed a few posts back. 
6.   Lead Acid Battery as Energy Antenna. Bedini and others have shown that the LAB, when running a pulsed system at the proper frequency will actually draw in vast amounts of charge from the ambient. It may be that the frequency of the motor/generator is facilitating this, that is, if it is using a LAB.

I won't argue the merits of these observations. Others have done that for pages on end. I'm only interested in moving ahead with constructive sharing of ideas and findings.
Bob

What sort of voltage is required to communicate with ground? Does the use of a capacitor reduce this required minimum voltage in any way? Don speaks of "more negative moving to the less negative", could this mean the use of the ground as "less negative" and cap neg as " more negative" or vis versa. The positive charge of one cap plate should draw an "excess" of negative charge to the other cap plate and cause it to be "more negative" than whatever ground is being used.

https://youtu.be/BJ8CHJscmR8
Starting at about 1:30 Don says more about this AEG setup and his use of capacitors. I'm particularly interested in the statement about just taking "the capacitor that's already in that motor scooter and wiring it slightly different" and having "a motor scooter that can run basically forever", geezeus it drives me nuts how easy he makes it sound.

I also want to fully understand what is meant when Don and people who work in the car audio field say that approximately 1 Farad equals(or is needed for) 1000 Watts of output power.

Quote from: lespaul109 on May 14, 2016, 11:59:10 AM
What sort of voltage is required to communicate with ground? Does the use of a capacitor reduce this required minimum voltage in any way? Don speaks of "more negative moving to the less negative", could this mean the use of the ground as "less negative" and cap neg as " more negative" or vis versa. The positive charge of one cap plate should draw an "excess" of negative charge to the other cap plate and cause it to be "more negative" than whatever ground is being used.

If you look at the circuit i post the bemf from thr coil is going to charge the top side of the cap and depending on the setup that charge could be thousands of volts, that will pull the same from the ground and once the pos charge is removed the diode sill block the neg charge from returning to ground, it will enter the neg of the battery but will this charge the battery, i really dont think it will. A battery charging circuit pulls electrons from the pos an pumps them into the neg.
Im going to study it awhile

Using an antenna and ground makes more sense.

Well your pulling or attracting electrons or protons out of the earth both are doable. You have the new charge on the cap you just short it out across the battery. No need to fource any thing .or you can short a light bulb across the cap or caps or you could dump the energy in to a motor coil . what ever you wish to do with it's yours for free. You could spark it inside of a glass jar upside down over water and make nitrogen fertilizer from the air. The English found that if they put a charge across a tomato it would preserve it from rotting.Jim out 👍

Dave 45 do some verifying postulating is fine but hands on will set you straight .I was doing that and after hands on things were different than what I thought. Made a big difference.got me from a to b.in reality. My thinking didn't matter if it doesn't work in real time. The Establishment has programed every one to think one way and it really has tripped us up. You'll know (experimentally-in the Greek) the truth and the truth will set you free!!. Not presumption will set you free .good hunting Jim out👍

Hey Jim yes testing is required, but you have to have a direction.
Using a cap to pull energy from the ambient makes sense.
Load one side and the other side is going to have a deficit, which creates a vacuum.

Quote from: Dave45 on May 14, 2016, 02:50:50 PM
Using an antenna and ground makes more sense.

It is the exact way around.
The wire first needs to be charged up to a high potential.
This will create 'disequilibrium' and nature will see this and act on it by restoring equilibrium/voltage potential.
That restoring action can be loaded to drive a closed loop circuit.
Essentially for free because the first high voltage tension was created for free / without current,
From a charged capacitor that doesn't get loaded so can be used over and over again.

Hay guys great thinking .one of my phobias is that some day I will have nothing in my head and my skull will collapse. Quote from  fight club. Good hunting gentleman. Jim out.

QuoteHey Jim yes testing is required, but you have to have a direction.
Using a cap to pull energy from the ambient makes sense.
Load one side and the other side is going to have a deficit, which creates a vacuum.

Agreed. Don Smith's use of capacitor shows us that there is a great amount of charge in the dielectric medium (between the capacitor's plates, and around the capacitor itself).  The charge on the output capacitor plate in DS' example isn't transferred from the input plate. Rather, it is supplied from the dielectric.

By placing a stress of potential difference on the dielectric (via the potential difference between the 2 capacitor plates), the dielectric is forced to respond. Here is where the idea of antenna and ground come in. The antenna and ground essentially widen the window of potential difference and enable the circuit to place a greater amount of stress on the dielectric between the capacitor plates. This allows the circuit - and more specifically, the capacitor - to do what Dave says, - "pull energy from the ambient."
Bob

Not between the capacitor plates Bob but on nature itself from the capacitor.
The charge is used to stress the local environment to bait nature.

Quote from: Turbo on May 16, 2016, 02:42:47 AM
Not between the capacitor plates Bob but on nature itself from the capacitor.
The charge is used to stress the local environment to bait nature.

Thanks Turbo,
I agree. The dielectric medium is pervasive - not just within the cap, but also around it as one coextensive reality that becomes stressed to push back.
Bob

Can somebody Post a diagram of the Capacitor Circuit DON SMITH is describing in this Video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8CHJscmR8&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJ8CHJscmR8&feature=youtu.be)

                                                                                                                                             .

This is all he gave us.

@  Lespaul109

Thank you for posting that.  Can you answer any of these?

1.  Does an antenna connect to the Capacitor Input?
2.  Have you had any results yet (good or bad)?
3.  Any helpful recommendations?

Thanks.
                                                                                                                    .

Hi guys here's my take on don smith's work start with a hivoltage source neon transformer. Use diodes to make the energy pluse  for switching reasons . use a Hi freq for faster switching pluse switching on and off.the coils tuned to the switching frequency to bring the AC resistance to zero .like tuning a radio dial if you there you'll get your desired result .station.all so the coil magnifys the voltage greatly.. Massive potential difference is made there in DC pulsing voltage ...this is the main form of energy needed for attracting electrons....then more coils all tuned to that coil in resonance so there's no resistance at all each coil is earth grounded so they're pulling current out of the ground with every positive pluse.now put a Hi voltage diode string in that ground line ...one way switch... And expose it to the caps for charging....like don said the more caps the more power...as you bleed off energy from the system it is replenished Thu the ground and when your not using it it fills up the caps and reaching its max potential stops till used again.he's using magnetic inductance Thu tuned coils for replication of power each getting hi fast POS pluse energy each regauging pulling electrons out of the earth like crazy trying to keep up with the conditions. There by making many copy's of the original powerful imbalance of positive energy. Free energy  .I just use... no coils ...no tuning just pure simple electrostatic induction .same principal just simple enough to charge a battery. And the voltage is not as dangerous.  Jim out . if you can understand this you can understand all of them..👍

the energy has to be switched fast.
this is done by digital multiplexing very similar to a SDR or software defined radio. 

@fatbird
  I've been thinking about what he was trying to tell us for a few years now. I can't seem to get the capacitor to communicate with an earth/air ground yet. It has even started to look like a transistor to me. This pic is from a video that I can't find any more, it wasn't my video though. It's not officially related to the AEG but it could lead us to the actual schematic that Don never shows us. On another note, I have the exact plasma globe that he says can output lots of power, I can attest that it does put off a large magnetic field. If anyone has suggestions for tests I could do with the globe, let me know.


On a different note, here is a bunch of D.Smith docs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7lxo9dsymfhlkh/Smith%20Library.zip?dl=0

Lespaul 109 he gave you everything just do a little bench work .I'm surprised I've seen much of Don's stuff but what your showing I've never seen very cool. You got more is this just a part of a greater release ? He's saying what I've been telling you . this wigs me out reading this it's like a second witness to me.thank you Jim out.👏

I saved many many screen shots and photos of the motorbike if anyone wants to look them over. I can't see any strange objects that look like they don't belong i.e. a mysterious box with an unknown circuit inside. It seems like every component is visible, we just need to analyze the wiring/connections. I did notice a few components missing or added from one demonstration to another, maybe we can deduce which items are ALWAYS required to get overunity vs. things that aren't needed for the basic concept. Does anyone think the old school bike dynamo could play an important role in any way? God I wish we could figure this one out!!!

@jimbo
Sorry for the confusion, the schematic is from a random ytube video. I printed it for myself on the same sheet as Don's diagram to save paper.

The bike may not need much. If you collect the back emu you have like 90% of the power returning then with a bifold coil the voltage spike would be Hi. Make that positive and pluse the battery .that would extend the battery life .using large caps. Exposed to that hivoltage and conned to the frame for neg. The energy on the cap could be pluses in to the battery or the motor with the right timing. Bedini's energy would contribute. The cap exposed to it would contribute. They said in a release that they were amazed that it keeps running they were just trying to boost its drive time and over did it.in to something new. Jim out 👍

to drive a bike is at least 200 Watts that isn't 'not much' its an significant amount of energy.

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=3003026A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19810730&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=3003026A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19810730&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)
Wenn ein Fussgänger auf das Fahrrad überwechselt, legt er bei vergleichbarer i:uskelarbeit dank der geringen Rollreibung von Fahrrädern in gleicher Zeit die drei- bis vierfache Wegstrecke zurück. Wie Versuche zeigten, sind im Grossst dtverkehr Radfahrer oft schneller als mit etwa 1Q00 mal grösserer Leistung angetriebene Auto. Leider bringt die Pedalbetätigung beim Radfahren ständige Körpergewichtsverlagerungen mit sich. Das Fahrrad schlenkert und hält schlecht Spur. Das Risiko, von Autos im dichten Verkehr angefahren zu werden, ist vielen Radfahrern zu gross. [/font][/size]Man benützt daher zur Zeit das Fahrrad nur als Freizeit- und Trimm-Dich- Gerät. Erst wenn es gelingt, dass Fahrräder in Zukunft besser ihre Fahrspur einhalten, haben sie zunehmend Chacen, als energiesparende und umweltfreundliche Verkehrsmittel akzeptiert zu werden. Dazu ist Voraussetzung, dass die Pedalbewegung entfällt. Das Fahrrad braucht also einen Fremdantrieb, z.Bsp. in Form eine.; batteriegespeisten, elektromotorischen Antriebes.

Derartiges ist nicht neu. Leider hat man in der Verganganheit den folgenschweren Fehler begangen,bei der Wahl der Motornennleistung sich von verkaufstaktischen Argumenten leiten zu lassen, hielt also eine Leistungsangabe von 1 PS fuer erforderlich Die im Vergleich zum durchschnittlichen Leistungsvermögen von 50 bis 100 Watt eines Menschen mit 700 bis 800 glatt um den. Faktor 10 überdimensionierten Motoren erzwangen grosse und schwere Batterien.

Ein solcher Reibrollantrieb ist bei Begrenzung der elektromotorischen Antriebsleistung auf eine Grössenordnung von etwa 1 OOW im Gegensatz zu bisherigen 800 Watt-Elektrofahrrädern technisch zuverlässig machbar.

                      "to drive a bike is at least 200 Watts that isn't 'not much' its an significant amount of energy."[/size]

http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=3003026&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.1&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=3003026&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.1&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en)


100 W Motor and http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20070201&CC=JP&NR=2007028879A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20070201&CC=JP&NR=2007028879A&KC=A) ?
Parallel resistance can increase current without reducing voltage, which is realized by the tool.


http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=3&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19750520&CC=US&NR=3884317A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=3&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19750520&CC=US&NR=3884317A&KC=A)
The size of the motor will vary in accordance with the desired results and the motor may, for example, be as little as 1/10 horsepower or as great as 1/2 horsepower. [/font][/size]

Hey, I may have come across a version of the bike's wiring setup. The voltage is climbing, VERY SLOWLY THOUGH. It's basically motor in series with a 1F 60V super cap(two .5F parallel). To keep the capacitor from cutting off current completely and to recharge battery, there's a 150W boost converter pulling some of the energy off the caps and boosting it to 13v(this booster needs a minimum of 9-10V to activate). I wasn't expecting "unity" if anything, I thought it would climb or fall, but not remain the same. Began test at 12:00p it's now 12:35p and the voltage rose to 12.21 from 12.20 and holding perfectly steady.

Quote from: lancaIV on May 17, 2016, 02:31:33 PM
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=3003026A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19810730&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=DE&NR=3003026A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=19810730&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)
Wenn ein Fussgänger auf das Fahrrad überwechselt, legt er bei vergleichbarer i:uskelarbeit dank der geringen Rollreibung von Fahrrädern in gleicher Zeit die drei- bis vierfache Wegstrecke zurück. Wie Versuche zeigten, sind im Grossst dtverkehr Radfahrer oft schneller als mit etwa 1Q00 mal grösserer Leistung angetriebene Auto. Leider bringt die Pedalbetätigung beim Radfahren ständige Körpergewichtsverlagerungen mit sich. Das Fahrrad schlenkert und hält schlecht Spur. Das Risiko, von Autos im dichten Verkehr angefahren zu werden, ist vielen Radfahrern zu gross. [/font][/size]Man benützt daher zur Zeit das Fahrrad nur als Freizeit- und Trimm-Dich- Gerät. Erst wenn es gelingt, dass Fahrräder in Zukunft besser ihre Fahrspur einhalten, haben sie zunehmend Chacen, als energiesparende und umweltfreundliche Verkehrsmittel akzeptiert zu werden. Dazu ist Voraussetzung, dass die Pedalbewegung entfällt. Das Fahrrad braucht also einen Fremdantrieb, z.Bsp. in Form eine.; batteriegespeisten, elektromotorischen Antriebes.

Derartiges ist nicht neu. Leider hat man in der Verganganheit den folgenschweren Fehler begangen,bei der Wahl der Motornennleistung sich von verkaufstaktischen Argumenten leiten zu lassen, hielt also eine Leistungsangabe von 1 PS fuer erforderlich Die im Vergleich zum durchschnittlichen Leistungsvermögen von 50 bis 100 Watt eines Menschen mit 700 bis 800 glatt um den. Faktor 10 überdimensionierten Motoren erzwangen grosse und schwere Batterien.

Ein solcher Reibrollantrieb ist bei Begrenzung der elektromotorischen Antriebsleistung auf eine Grössenordnung von etwa 1 OOW im Gegensatz zu bisherigen 800 Watt-Elektrofahrrädern technisch zuverlässig machbar.

                      "to drive a bike is at least 200 Watts that isn't 'not much' its an significant amount of energy."[/size]

http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=3003026&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.1&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en (http://translationportal.epo.org/emtp/translate/?ACTION=description-retrieval&COUNTRY=DE&ENGINE=google&FORMAT=docdb&KIND=A1&LOCALE=en_EP&NUMBER=3003026&OPS=ops.epo.org/3.1&SRCLANG=de&TRGLANG=en)


100 W Motor and http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20070201&CC=JP&NR=2007028879A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=5&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20070201&CC=JP&NR=2007028879A&KC=A) ?
Parallel resistance can increase current without reducing voltage, which is realized by the tool.


http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=3&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19750520&CC=US&NR=3884317A&KC=A (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=3&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19750520&CC=US&NR=3884317A&KC=A)
The size of the motor will vary in accordance with the desired results and the motor may, for example, be as little as 1/10 horsepower or as great as 1/2 horsepower. [/font][/size]

My electric bike is 180 Watt and it does not go very fast on maximum setting.
Still 100 Watt is a significant amount of energy.
I do not understand most of your German post.

SUPER Good Job & Thanks for sharing.
Please post a Wiring Diagram showing how you have it wired up with the Motor, Caps, Boost Converter, etc.

Thanks again,


                                                                                                                      .

Google translator:

When a pedestrian on changes to the bike, he puts on a comparable i: uskelarbeit thanks to the low rolling friction of bicycles in the same time returns the three- to four-fold path. As experiments showed dtverkehr cyclists are Grossst often faster than about 1Q00 times greater performance driven car. Unfortunately brings pedaling the bike constant body weight shifts with it. The bicycle dangles and keeps bad track. The risk of being hit by cars in heavy traffic, many cyclists is too big. [/ Font] [/ size] One uses therefore currently the bike only as a leisure and trim sealing device. Only when we succeed, that bicycles in future better meet their lane, they have increasingly Chacen to be accepted as an energy-saving and environmentally friendly transport. For this purpose, provided that the pedal movement is eliminated. The bike therefore needs an external drive, z.Bsp. in the form of a .; battery powered, electric motor drive.


Such is not new. Unfortunately, one has committed the serious mistake in Verganganheit to leave the choice of motor power guided by selling tactical arguments, that gave a power rating of 1 hp for required The compared to the average performance of 50 to 100 watts of people with 700 to 800 smooth to the. Factor 10 oversized motors forced large and heavy batteries.


Such Reibrollantrieb is on an order of about 1 OOW unlike previous 800 watt electric bicycles technically reliable feasible for limiting the electric motor drive power.


Dr. Wolfgang Volkrodt has been chief engineer from  SIEMENS.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.verlag-hartmut-becker.de%2FDer_Verlag%2FAutoren_innen%2FWolfgang_Volkrodt_%2Fwolfgang_volkrodt_.html&edit-text=

Also,scientifically interestant,this application :
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=41&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19860717&CC=DE&NR=3501076A1&KC=A1 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=41&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19860717&CC=DE&NR=3501076A1&KC=A1)
But: nobody is citing this document  8)

@ Lespaul109

SUPER Good Job & Thanks for sharing.
Please post a Wiring Diagram showing how you have it wired up with the Motor, Caps, Boost Converter, etc.


                                                                                                                                                                              .

4mo. old baby taking my time! ;)
Here ya go

@  LesPaul109

It looks like you have 2 Boost Converters on the table connected up,
but you don't show 2 on your wiring diagram shown above.

                                                                                                                                                .

Sorry, that is a photobomb of a PWM that was from an earlier test. The PWM wasn't used.

With the properly wound DC motor using hi-impedance windings on stator (i.e., lots of light gauge [e.g., 30 or higher]) you should be able to produce high voltage, low amperage pulses on output.

If the output is fed to one leg of a cap and the other leg provided with a grounding (not earth ground) connection, we should have the ability to draw on the ambient (using the ground connection) to supply extra charge to the system, producing a COP >1. 

In this way, the system, as a closed system itself runs underunity, while the ambient (ground) draw becomes an external source of extra charge.
Bob

Edit:  Looking back - sorry LesPaul, I didn't notice your diagram. I like it. ;D

Bob I think that even with that set up you'll have to have a way to capture the cap charge or it will rise and fall with the voltage source. Maybe a diode on the ground side of the cap.to stop any return to the zero potential. Even if your connected to the frame ground it would be an open system don had these for cars and planes. Jim out🍺

I can't see how the out VA can be higher than the input VA in that configuration. Does it have to do with inertia of the current coming into the grounded side of the capacitor and have the input side be higher impedance than the grounded side?

Quote from: jimbo on May 18, 2016, 05:25:21 PM
Bob I think that even with that set up you'll have to have a way to capture the cap charge or it will rise and fall with the voltage source. Maybe a diode on the ground side of the cap.to stop any return to the zero potential. Even if your connected to the frame ground it would be an open system don had these for cars and planes. Jim out🍺

Hi Jim
I was thinking the same thing re the diode.
Me gusta mucho!
Bob

Bob it might be a little more the cap needs to dump so a little switching might come into play with timing. Jim out🍺

Quote from: jimbo on May 18, 2016, 07:38:36 PM
Bob it might be a little more the cap needs to dump so a little switching might come into play with timing. Jim out🍺

Jim,
Yes, this is where I'm at right now. It's not so much how to charge the cap, but rather, getting it to dump.
Do you think a Zener diode might perform the same function as a switch?
Bob

A zener has to come to almost zero to switch back on. And you may need to dump in-between battery pluses not sure I like something like a set of points contacts.they can take the load and last. A MOSFET would work a large one. But to proto type I like retro with points.cheap!!!. Jim out🍺

Hmm... There's gotta be a very simple way to get these caps to discharge.
Will get on it this weekend if I can.
Bob

On one level there is just look at my layout they fire off and just keep charging so a timing circuit is about all that's needed so put a small delay in series with the motor and when the power is off it fires. Might brcto fast for a relay don't. Know. Maybe a LED pluse a light transistor called an opto . but it must be in lock step with the motor on off.Jim out🍺

October 2019 : something new in the R-Walker project development  ?
Such an ebike can become the cheaper mobility alternative to 1000+ $/€ e-scooter. !

Okay, I tried lespaul's circuit and the voltage went down steadily.

Difference is I used a 24v 250W motor and a 600W boost converter. I'm thinking the boost converter was either too high wattage or the dials werent dialled in properly. There were two dials, I don't know what the first one was but I dialled the second one to 14 volts output.

Okay, I tried with the same 150w boost converter lespaul used and same thing, voltage dropped steadily.