As said before I do not go to technical with magnets, I tend to build and try and use my little clear box full of iron filings to see the Flux gate around the different magnet configurations I set up.
But tonight I was playing with placing two magnets South against South that were kept in line using nylon thread.
I then introduced a big magnet to watch the spring effect happen and examine what effect it would have at different angles.
I was suprised to see the pole had changed in the middle of the magnet.
Is this normal?
It is easier if I attach a diagram.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cncdudez.com%2Fpolesr.jpg&hash=a2ee4af94d152aa367c5bd1781b94b86d266f332)
Regards
Sean.
I think it's similar effect as the movement of a magnetized soft iron across the "neutral line"
http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm
Scroll down in that link to get the pole flipping effect. Fascinating stuff
It makes sence too. As at "far" distances it is oppositie but on contact it assumes the polarity of the contact pole.
So, somehwere between contact -zero distance- and "far" there is a point of pole flipping.
Thanks for the link Mike, will have a good read of that.
I forgot to say the magnet that I was playing with has remained reversed in the middle.
Regards
Sean.
Quote from: CLaNZeR on October 11, 2006, 02:29:58 AM
Thanks for the link Mike, will have a good read of that.
I forgot to say the magnet that I was playing with has remained reversed in the middle.
Regards
Sean.
A very interesting find...
Can you give me more exact info about the components so I can attempt to replicate it.
I will buy the parts this weekend. It is quite curious that the poles have remained flipped.
Please explain with detail... Examples: were the magnets verticaly or horizontaly stacked?
Were the magnets ceramic or NeFeB? where did you obtain them? Any other details would
be great. I'm quite interested in seeing this effect first hand.
Thanks for the interesting post!
~Dingus
Quote from: CLaNZeR on October 10, 2006, 04:52:29 PM
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cncdudez.com%2Fpolesr.jpg&hash=a2ee4af94d152aa367c5bd1781b94b86d266f332)
If you remove the left most (2 hole bar) magnet do the poles reset in the center?
Hello CLaNZeR,
you stated that the pole stayed in this reversed mode. What happens if you sepereate the setup ( remove it from
the plastic pins ?
But before you do this : do a test by approaching this setup with the south-pole on the right and/or the north-pole
on the left.
But most important : I like to know how do you measure the location and the quality of the different poles ?
And where did you get this kind of magnets with holes in it ?
Kator01
I simply had two ferrite magnets, the ones I have been using on my wheels shown at
http://www.cncdudez.com/hamel.htm
They come with two holes already drilled and are 55mm * 25mm *10mm.
I cut 2 lengths of nylon thread and placed the magnets against each other as shown in the picture and did up the nylon nuts until the magnets were evenly hovering away from each other.
Then I pushed a strong NdFeB / Neodymium magnet against the outside dead middle of the two holes.
I was watching it spring back and forth and then pushed the big magnet fuly towards it to see how close I could get both magnets together.
Then all of a sudden the big magnet stuck to the center of it, instead of repelling away.
I then ran a small magnet across it and found the pole had reversed in the middle.
I then removed the outside magnet and tried again and still the pole in the middle is reversed.
I ran the small magnet over the other magnet and it was still normal with south on one side all along and north on the other side all along.
I then tried a couple of hours later to see if it had worn off and it had not. I will check tonight when I get home if it is still reversed.
I can send some pictures if you like and try and replicate the thing again tonight when I get back from work.
Regards
Sean.
Sean,
no hurry, take time. pictures not necessary.
Kator
Well got home tonight and checked the magnet and the poles are still reversed in the middle of the magnet.
I then thought I would try another magnet but this time just lay it flat on the table and push the big magnet into the middle of it, within seconds the same thing, poles reversed in the middle but not on the outsides.
This has to be the holes in the magnet or summit.
I have upload an avi file which you can see what I mean. Had to zip it as for some reason uploading in just avi format was getting corrupt ?
http://www.tekit.seriouslyinternet.com/clanzeravi1.zip
@Dingus, I purchased the magnets from Magnet Applications Limited.
http://www.magnetukonline.com/products.asp?v06en0tr=J&v06T4172=EE&v06cntr=G
Stock Code FE244A 55x25x9mm 2-hole ferrite which were ?20.00 UKP for 50 of them.
Regards
Sean.
I thought I would have a go with some ferrite magnets without the holes and still same result.
(https://overunityarchives.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cncdudez.com%2Fpolesr2.jpg&hash=56fdf69f7a8bbdccbc79d792876d13403d0644bb)
After drawing the picture I then thought I would try the North Side on the magnet to the right and applied the big magnet and yep ended up with the middle swapping poles.
So now I have two magnets stuck together with top Side running S-N-S-N-S-N
Good way of making different size zones I suppose on a long length of magnetic bar.
Now I wonder if I can reverse them so I can use them again !!
Regards
Sean.
Sean,
seperate the two magnets and please report the result. If the position of poles stay push big magnet with opposing pole in the middle of each magnet.
Thank you
Kator
Hi Kator
They stay reversed in the middle if you remove the magnets.
They will swap back over if the big magnet is reversed and pushed against it again.
Regards
Sean.
Quote from: Kator01 on October 11, 2006, 07:16:36 PM
Sean,
seperate the two magnets and please report the result. If the position of poles stay push big magnet with opposing pole in the middle of each magnet.
Thank you
Kator
hi all,
this is my first post. I hope it's usefull.
Then, about the magnets who invert theirs poles ... it's absolutely normal.
If you put a ferrite magnet in a neodimium magnet field, you can easily magnetize the ferrite magnet with the polarity of the neodimium one (try also with only one ferrite magnet and one neodimium .... reverse and reverse again) ... it's a normal thing about different cohercitivity of two materials.
Been thinking about this reversing of poles again after seeing the post regards Steorn and new info that apparently got slipped into their Forum conversations and quickly deleted.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1811.0.html
*******************************
A little bit of info has been linked recently.
Sean has said that the device uses a premise of 'walking a magnet' around the B_H curve.
Supposedly the rotor contains a ferrite type magnet, with a neo for the stator, such that the neo magnet temporarily reverses the pole on the ferrite
********************************
Now thinking about this and going back to using a wheel.
What if you had Neo Magnets on the wheel and the magnets faced out North and then South and then North etc etc around the wheel.
Then outside the wheel set staticly you place a ceramic magnet with say North pole facing towards the wheel magnets.
As you turn the wheel and the first Neo with North facing the North on the Ceramic magnet will hit the sticky point and repel against each other. But if you hold that position long enough then the Ceramic field will eventually give way as the poles reverse and become attracted to each other.
If you have other magnets staticly placed around the outside of the wheel and posistioned correctly then they will deliver the force to first push the magnet around to hit the sticky point but also enough power to hold it there till it forces a pole reversal and also enough power to get past the new sticky point created.
Now as the next Neo magnet approaches with its south facing outwards, the ceramic has already switched it's poles and we are back to the beginning.
I was going to try draw this up but finding it difficult as in my mind I can picture it but finding it hard to get down on paper.
What also makes sense to me now is the delay in watching the Steorn motor run where it hits a point where it sort of slowly stops some kind of device gets slowly lifted and the device spins again, could this indeed be the delay of the Ceramic switching poles?
Regards
Sean.
Quote from: composer on October 17, 2006, 08:15:07 PM
hi all,
this is my first post. I hope it's usefull.
Then, about the magnets who invert theirs poles ... it's absolutely normal.
If you put a ferrite magnet in a neodimium magnet field, you can easily magnetize the ferrite magnet with the polarity of the neodimium one (try also with only one ferrite magnet and one neodimium .... reverse and reverse again) ... it's a normal thing about different cohercitivity of two materials.
Hi composer,
Can you give some more info (web link, paper reference etc) on how quick the a ferrit magnet recover and change back to its original poles after the ''treatment'' from the stronger magnet?
Thanks, Gyula
Quote from: CLaNZeR on December 17, 2006, 12:37:05 PM
What also makes sense to me now is the delay in watching the Steorn motor run where it hits a point where it sort of slowly stops some kind of device gets slowly lifted and the device spins again, could this indeed be the delay of the Ceramic switching poles?
Regards
Sean.
Hi CLaNZeR,
Could you please post the video, showing the stop and go aspects of the device?
Thanks
Hi Gyula
For your info I was playing with a small Neo magnet today towards a smaller ceramic and it was interesting to see when using a smaller Neo Magnet on a Ceramic that the poles do indeed swap back pretty quickly when the neo is removed.
When I used a Big neo as shown in this thread the Ceramic is reversed for good and I still have the Ceramics here that are still reversed from the original experiement the other month.
Regards
Sean.
Quote
Hi composer,
Can you give some more info (web link, paper reference etc) on how quick the a ferrit magnet recover and change back to its original poles after the ''treatment'' from the stronger magnet?
Thanks, Gyula
Hi Mike
I will try and dig it out, I had a quick look on the Skynews Video as I thought it might of been this one, but it isnt.
The one I remember was one of the earlier videos that showed the device rotating a barrier being lifted as the device came to a halt.
Will go see if I can find it.
Regards
Sean.
Quote
Hi CLaNZeR,
Could you please post the video, showing the stop and go aspects of the device?
Thanks
Mike update on video footage
Seems Sky news Archive has nicely butchered their clip to remove any of the pictures of the devices.
But found a copy on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNDIWY19gqA&mode=related&search=
This is not the one I remember seeing that interested me at first as I know there is another one I think from one of the other News channels that shows the lifting bit I am trying to explain.
But for now if you look at 1:00 into the video you will see the stop start action I am talking about.
I will continue the search so I can show you what I mean!
Regards
Sean.
Hi Clanzer,
Ahh when you say you reversed the field you meant it was permanent, sorry I missed that in the original description.
Is the central region on the reverse side of the ceramic magnet flipped as well?
Hmm, so you get first repulsion, you go past the point of no return, then you get attraction. All we need to do now is figure a way of reversing these two forces and we have it.
On the ceramic magnet you have a change in polarity, so if you have another magnet near the face (1mm gap) in attraction, when the field flips it will be repelled and able to perform some work.
After the 2nd ceramic magnet is repelled then the main neo magnet can move onto the next ceramic magnet, so it would not be a smooth motion, but stop start.
People were talking about mu-metal and shields, when all along it could what you have just demonstrated, neo magnet and a ceramic magnet as the switch.
I am going to rack my brains now to see if I can figure how you can make a repulsion followed by an attraction into useful work.
What happens if there is a neo magnet attached on the underside of the ceramic magnet and you try to bring the first neo magnet into contact the surface of the ceramic magnet?
I am wondering if this is some kind of avalanche effect where by it reverses the polarity then repels the other neo magnet.
Regards
Rob
Quote from: CLaNZeR on December 17, 2006, 02:06:44 PM
Mike update on video footage
Seems Sky news Archive has nicely butchered their clip to remove any of the pictures of the devices.
But found a copy on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNDIWY19gqA&mode=related&search=
This is not the one I remember seeing that interested me at first as I know there is another one I think from one of the other News channels that shows the lifting bit I am trying to explain.
But for now if you look at 1:00 into the video you will see the stop start action I am talking about.
I will continue the search so I can show you what I mean!
Regards
Sean.
CLaNZeR thanks.
The one you posted I have seen, it is helpful but it is not providing any rates info.
If you can locate the one showing the weights lifted/lowered, it would be more helpful.
Who knows?the whole setup maybe simpler than most think.
Thanks
I think the Steorn Effect is probably rather simple as well, but I think you are off base! It isn't like "Pole Switching" is exact. All you're doing is actually demagnitizing a weaker ceramic with a stronger neo. The results of which are way too inconsistant to count on for any kind of practical motor.
Don't ruin your ceramic mags. I did read all of the deleted Steorn threads. Pole switching was being discussed there way earlier.
~edited for courtesy and sp =)
Konduct you do not get it my friend, it is not about money and wasting magnets to me, it is a bit of fun to experiment and chuck wild ideas into the air and yep most of the time into Touch LOL!!
I was going on an idea that was quoted from another thread in this forum
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1811.0.html
And nope I have not been sat on the Steorn site reading all those threads as it hard enough to find time to catch up with this forum.
Have you released your shielding info yet?
Regards
Sean.
Quote from: konduct on December 18, 2006, 02:28:07 AM
I think the Steorn Effect is probably rather simple as wel, but Clanzer, you are off base my friend! It isn't like "Pole Switching" is exact. All you're doing is actually demagnitizing a weaker ceramic with a stronger neo. The results of which are way too inconsistant to count on for any kind of practicle motor. Come on people...
"OOooo, Ooooo, Magnetic Mystery!...I'll buy parts!...duh d duuuhhh..."
Gump, Gump, Gump.
Quit ruining your ceramic mags. I did read all of the deleted Steorn threads. You are way off what was being discussed there.
Hi Konduct,
I have to agree with Clanzer, such harsh words, yet you offer so little in support.
You remind me of the little boy playing in the sand at the beach in the "AA" commercial, and his dad says, "So where exactly did you bury the car?" and the little boy replies, "Its in the SAND! .... I'm not helping much, am I dad?".
Money is not really an issue here in research, I personally have spend hundreds and hundreds on test gear, components, parts you name it, but I don't care about the money, I just want to find the answer, is OU possible and can it be put to work to replace fossil fuels.
After watching the video presentation by Al Gore - "an inconvenient truth", I realize we only have a matter of a few decades before the climate goes "belly up" and we are left with a planet that resembles Water World with the fierce weather to go with it.
So come on, share what info you may have on this topic.
Regards
Rob
I'm sorry guys. Bad choice of words really. I wasn't really trying to come off like I did... :'( I knew the thread you were going off of and the info was incomplete. I was hoping you guys might go dig on Steorn's forum rather than take second hand info as the gospel. Kent does know what he is talking about but the post he made was early in a series of events. It was basically stale intel! I was hot on the trail with Kent so I didn't spend enough time explaining it...I figured you guys would go and check it out of curiosity. We need people working together and independently on ideas that work. I didn't want some Steorn cat laughing at you guys for making the same mistake half of them already made. I was also a little salty since there are some very counterproductive people out there who enjoy people wasting their time with dis-information. (Plus I already "altered" ceramics with neos before and you end up with an unstable useless mag.) :-[ I apologize again for being condiscending though.
I also didn't mean to insinuate anyone was financially hurting either. I've got nearly 1000 neos with more coming so I know about doing things for grins! (Got tired of recycling the mags out of one of my old designs to test the new ones since I keep going back to the same old one.) But I have seen some younger as well as older folks that mentioned having very little budget to work with.
Oh yeah, the shielding is good ol fashioned stainless steel. I pretty much abandoned my shielding ideas for a couple of reasons. 1, the most basic design didn't work the way I needed it to. 2 the more advanced "sexier" designs wouldn't be practical for size / power output so back to the drawing board. The real beauty of Stainless is that it doesn't magnetize like soft steel does due to the moly alloy. It's still usefull but not like I need it to be.
No probs Konduct
I know what it like, I spend alot of my daily time reading every area linked to magnets and different areas being explored and it a huge area, some things I read and it sticks in my head and then you see a conversation going on about it and think, hold on that already been tried, but you forget that those people have not read the same material as you.
But at the end of the day, there are so many combinations to so many experiements that we cannot dismiss someone else trying the same idea.
A good example of this is the Smot ramp. If you just put too long magnets lined up and place a ball inside it then it will indeed roll up hill, but you hit a sticky point.
If you then dig deeper and space the long magnets exactly to within 1mm as shown by someone who has played for many hours with this design the ball goes past the sticky point.
I beleive this is the same for many designs out there. I think people will experiment and try a theory and see if does not work, but who is to say that if they had just moved 1 magnet 5mm this way or that way, that it would of shown a different result.
It is a huge Arena for experiments and even though defined Physics say it is not possible, we still keep trying. That alone has got to be a good reason for us all to keep trying LOL!!!
Regards
Sean.
@ Konduct
I know what you mean about trying many things and going back to the same design !!