Bloom Energy customers: eBay, Walmart, Adobe, Caltech, FedEx, Staples, The Coca Cola Company, Google, PGNE (California's largest power company), and many more (http://www.bloomenergy.com/customer-fuel-cell/).
Bloom Energy Customer Testimonials (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I83ZB4WJ8Pw)
Bloom Box: The Alternative Energy that Terrifies Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shkFDPI6kGE)
Bloom Box Energy secrets revealed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RehT-Do9bs)
Is the Bloom Energy only for the government and corporate elitists? What have I missed?
Gravock
Bloomenergy Website (http://www.bloomenergy.com/)
Gravock
IMO, Bloom is likely to go the way of NanoSolar. They came on the scene with big promises and then got bogged down in the dirty and expensive business of materials technology development. Each new private round is supposed to provide the needed capital to turn the corner to the reliable and low cost box fuel cell / co-gen unit that they promised from the start.
What they are trying to do is very hard. If they could really pull it off it would be a very good thing even though it is still consuming NG. But, I suspect that the fast money VC money behind Bloom is getting impatient. If they cannot manage an IPO in the next 24 months, I think it will get parted out for the patent portfolio to the other multinationals who have been working on SOX fuel cells for decades.
How Bloom Energy Servers Create Electricity (http://c0688662.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/downloads_pdf_How_it_Works.pdf) (Snapshot below)
Animation (http://www.bloomenergy.com/fuel-cell/solid-oxide-fuel-cell-animation/)
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 28, 2015, 08:55:54 PM
Is the Bloom Energy only for the government and corporate elitists? What have I missed?
Gravock
Yes, at this time the Bloom Energy is only for the government and corporate elitists! Below is a quote as found on the residential contact request form on Bloomenergy's website (http://www.bloomenergy.com/contact/residential/). I guess I missed the fact that the Bloom Box current power output is far more than the individual home needs and is best suited for large commercial and industrial scale applications.
Quote from: Bloomenergy
Unfortunately, the current power output of a Bloom Box is far more than the individual home needs. Today's product is best suited for large commercial and industrial scale applications.
Quote from: gravityblock on July 28, 2015, 11:03:21 PM
Yes, at this time the Bloom Energy is only for the government and corporate elitists! Below is a quote as found on the residential contact request form on Bloomenergy's website (http://www.bloomenergy.com/contact/residential/). I guess I missed the fact that the Bloom Box current power output is far more than the individual home needs and is best suited for large commercial and industrial scale applications.
for the sort of thing that they are trying to develop, it actually makes a lot more sense to start with a smaller number of big machines than thousands upon thousands of smaller machines. One recall could kill them ala A123's problem with a single welding machine. SOX/SOFCs have been studied for many decades. They are simple in principle, but very complex in practice.
Quote from: gravityblock on July 28, 2015, 11:03:21 PM
I guess I missed the fact that the Bloom Box current power output is far more than the individual home needs and is best suited for large commercial and industrial scale applications.
However, according to KR Sridhar in this interview (https://youtu.be/shkFDPI6kGE?t=37s), the Bloom Box is scale-able. KR even shows the small size of the fuel cell required for a home (see the interview and snapshot below). So, how does this mean the current power output of the Bloom Box is far more than the needs of an individual home, while only being suited best for large commercial and industrial scale applications? This reinforces the idea of the Bloom Box is only intended for the elitists.
Gravock
I always liked this technology because it offers a new perspective. Note the last picture, on the left we have fuel and air and intuitively we think we should burn it which is the most absurd thing we could possibly do. Next we have the fuel cell stack consisting of the anode, electrolyte and cathode and this intuitively reminds us of a battery. If you think about it the fuel/air stack is not unlike a flow battery where the moving electrolyte is recharged externally and in this case the fuel/air reactions simply recharges the electrolyte. This battery/stack then moves electrons to power an electrical load as we see on the right.
What is not generally apparent is what we already know in a sense. The fuel and air, chemistry, is not actually chemistry because on the most fundamental level the reaction is solely electrodynamic. The stack produces a electrodynamic reaction to separate the charges from the molecules and the charges flow down the conductor to the load. It is far removed from the archaic burning of fuel with air to produce heat and closer to what we already know... all matter contains energy.
In the future I see no reason why we could not use engineered catalysts, nano-materials, to strip charges from literally any material at which point the archaic term "fuel" is no longer needed. Many terms will become obsolete as we come to understand that fundamentally the only forces at work here on the most fundamental level are Electro-Magnetic in nature. We do not need chemistry or thermodynamics and they are a very poor and confusing way to describe what is actually happening.
On the most fundamental level we have particles and fields and motion. That is all there is and that is all we need to describe everything and the sooner we discard these archaic notions of fuel and chemistry and thermodynamics the better off we will be.
AC
Quote from: allcanadian on July 28, 2015, 11:36:01 PM
I always liked this technology because it offers a new perspective. Note the last picture, on the left we have fuel and air and intuitively we think we should burn it which is the most absurd thing we could possibly do. Next we have the fuel cell stack consisting of the anode, electrolyte and cathode and this intuitively reminds us of a battery. If you think about it the fuel/air stack is not unlike a flow battery where the moving electrolyte is recharged externally and in this case the fuel/air reactions simply recharges the electrolyte. This battery/stack then moves electrons to power an electrical load as we see on the right.
What is not generally apparent is what we already know in a sense. The fuel and air, chemistry, is not actually chemistry because on the most fundamental level the reaction is solely electrodynamic. The stack produces a electrodynamic reaction to separate the charges from the molecules and the charges flow down the conductor to the load. It is far removed from the archaic burning of fuel with air to produce heat and closer to what we already know... all matter contains energy.
In the future I see no reason why we could not use engineered catalysts, nano-materials, to strip charges from literally any material at which point the archaic term "fuel" is no longer needed. Many terms will become obsolete as we come to understand that fundamentally the only forces at work here on the most fundamental level are Electro-Magnetic in nature. We do not need chemistry or thermodynamics and they are a very poor and confusing way to describe what is actually happening.
On the most fundamental level we have particles and fields and motion. That is all there is and that is all we need to describe everything and the sooner we discard these archaic notions of fuel and chemistry and thermodynamics the better off we will be.
AC
Good post, and I would like to add to it!
Ultra rays, or gamma rays, on passing close to helium nuclei, will bring about a deformation of space and give birth to electrons until their wave energy is expended. Thus, when gamma rays pass through an acid solution saturated with helium nuclei, the electrons will gyrate around the nuclei, but the acid will prevent them from joining up with the nuclei, and they are then collected on plates at the bottom of the apparatus. This provides an inexhaustible supply of energy which requires nothing more than a little acid solution and some helium nuclei.
Gravock
Quote from: MarkE on July 28, 2015, 11:23:12 PM
for the sort of thing that they are trying to develop, it actually makes a lot more sense to start with a smaller number of big machines than thousands upon thousands of smaller machines. One recall could kill them ala A123's problem with a single welding machine. SOX/SOFCs have been studied for many decades. They are simple in principle, but very complex in practice.
MarkE, watch the videos in the OP. He says, the bloom box isn't too get rid of the grid, but to replace it by having utility companies sell the energy to it's customers. Delmarva, PG&E, and Washington Gas are already using bloomenergy servers. So, how is this not going to get rid of the grid, if they have plans to put the boxes in the back yard of individual homes and small businesses, etc?
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 30, 2015, 04:36:47 PM
MarkE, watch the videos in the OP. He says, the bloom box isn't too get rid of the grid, but to replace it by having utility companies sell the energy to it's customers. Delmarva Power, PG&E, and Washington Gas are already using bloomenergy servers and selling the energy to it's customers (homes and small businesses). So, how is this not going to get rid of the grid, if they have plans to put the boxes in the back yard of individual homes and small businesses, etc?
Gravock
Their "so-called plans" in offering the boxes to individual home owners is nothing more than to pacify the general public. The dumbed-downed enslaved people of the government and corporate elitists are once again being bamboozled and hoodwinked by this corrupted system of things.
Gravock
deleted.......post in wrong thread by accident.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 30, 2015, 04:47:17 PM
Their "so-called plans" in offering the boxes to individual home owners is nothing more than to pacify the general public. The dumbed-downed enslaved people of the government and corporate elitists are once again being bamboozled and hoodwinked by this corrupted system of things.
Gravock
I never said that Bloom Boxes would diminish the influence of the power utilities. I have discussed the technical problems and internal finances of Bloom Energy.
Investor owned utilities are not going away without a huge fight. Investor owned utilities are also moving into the rooftop solar business. Back to the Bloom Box: Even if the Bloom Box costs got down to the point where they were economical for individual homeowners the investor owned utilities would still be piping in the natural gas. The corruption problems recently unearthed between senior officials of the Cal PUC and PG&E speak to the problems of concentrating a lot of money in the hands of a few without adequate oversight.
Quote from: MarkE on July 30, 2015, 07:42:27 PM
I never said that Bloom Boxes would diminish the influence of the power utilities. I have discussed the technical problems and internal finances of Bloom Energy.
Investor owned utilities are not going away without a huge fight. Investor owned utilities are also moving into the rooftop solar business. Back to the Bloom Box: Even if the Bloom Box costs got down to the point where they were economical for individual homeowners the investor owned utilities would still be piping in the natural gas. The corruption problems recently unearthed between senior officials of the Cal PUC and PG&E speak to the problems of concentrating a lot of money in the hands of a few without adequate oversight.
The fuel can be produced and/or stored on-site instead of receiving it from the utility companies. By doing this, then it will destroy their monopoly. You're absolutely correct, they're not going to give up their strangle hold without a fight.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on July 30, 2015, 07:52:46 PM
The fuel can be produced and/or stored on-site instead of receiving it from the utility companies. By doing this, then it will destroy their monopoly. You're absolutely correct, they're not going to give up their strangle hold without a fight.
Gravock
That might be possible in some circumstances like a dairy farm or a landfill. The feedstock and water needed are just not there in urban environments.
Quote from: gravityblock on July 30, 2015, 07:52:46 PM
The fuel can be produced and/or stored on-site instead of receiving it from the utility companies. By doing this, then it will destroy their monopoly. You're absolutely correct, they're not going to give up their strangle hold without a fight.
Gravock
Quote from: MarkE on July 30, 2015, 11:59:15 PM
That might be possible in some circumstances like a dairy farm or a landfill. The feedstock and water needed are just not there in urban environments.
Robert Murray-Smith uploaded a video on the replication of a "Paper Battery As Powerful As an AA and Activated by Water (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD2_NNx1k10)".
This Paper Battery uses a homemade ink (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-15900-5) that is painted on both sides of the paper. The ink on one side (anode) of the paper has a different formula than the ink on the other side (cathode) of the paper. This is the same principal used in the Bloom Energy Server. Instead of painting the inks on both sides of the paper, the Bloom Energy Server paints the inks on both sides of a peace of ceramic wafer that is made by baking sand. The composition of the inks used in the Bloom Energy Server is not known and is called a special "sauce" by K.R. Sridhar.
In the Bloom Energy Server, passing oxygen over the cathode side and a fuel, such as hydrogen or a gas, on the anode side produces electricity! The ink on the cathode side of the Paper Battery will more than likely work in the Bloom Energy Server. However, the zinc in the ink on the anode side is consumed during discharging of the Paper Battery. Thus, the anode ink will not work in the Bloom Energy Server. If you don't ask the right questions, then you won't get the right answers. K.R. Sridhar has said that Solar can be used. This is extremely important in unraveling his secret sauce for the Bloom Energy Server. How can you pass solar heat over the anode side to produce electricity? Passing heat over the anode side won't produce an electrical current.
A single gas-powered generator can produce as much as 100 times more carbon monoxide than a car's exhaust. Robert Murray-Smith released another video titled "Fuel From The Air (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdfMeet_kOc)". This video explains how Cerium Oxide as the anode ink (glass polishing powder) catalyzes the carbon dioxide from the air and water vapor into carbon monoxide and hydrogen to produce a syngas. We already have carbon monoxide directly from the gas-powered generator and the carbon dioxide from the air will be catalyzed into more carbon monoxide while producing an electrical current in the fuel cell. Passing this syngas over cobalt will drip kerosene/jet fuel! Below is an image of what the syngas can be converted into! This is a net carbon neutral fuel cell!
Gravock