No this is NOT a shake light and is NOT a light you need to wind up. It does NOT need Sunlight. You just turn on the tail switch and it puts out 120 Lumens. After about 12 hours of runtime it will start to weaken so you just turn it off and let it sit a while. NO Recharging by any external source is needed except what it gets from the Earth magnetic field and from what I understand probably also gets some power from EMF or electronic pollution by all the electronic devices around us. Either that or some more exotic sources. And YES they are available for sale right now from what I can see. Web site below. $99 This is not an Overunity or COP > 1 device as far as I know. It appears to get it's power from fields around it and would appear to do so in a very efficient way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc
http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe
I have no association with them - just found the video of it on youtube. Great way to help the planet and stop toxic throw away battery pollution.
Quote from: e2matrix on August 29, 2015, 09:01:12 PM
No this is NOT a shake light and is NOT a light you need to wind up. It does NOT need Sunlight. You just turn on the tail switch and it puts out 120 Lumens. After about 12 hours of runtime it will start to weaken so you just turn it off and let it sit a while. NO Recharging by any external source is needed except what it gets from the Earth magnetic field and from what I understand probably also gets some power from EMF or electronic pollution by all the electronic devices around us. Either that or some more exotic sources. And YES they are available for sale right now from what I can see. Web site below. $99 This is not an Overunity or COP > 1 device as far as I know. It appears to get it's power from fields around it and would appear to do so in a very efficient way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc
http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe
I have no association with them - just found the video of it on youtube. Great way to help the planet and stop toxic throw away battery pollution.
thanx for the info.
it is a useful product. the developers deserve a successful future.
its not a cheap flashlight, though its price could soon lower with new versions.
without batteries, it must have capacitor based storage.
if it was a self charging battery, then it would be a capacitor.
So, it has a built in antenna that receives rf energy? Not much power there.
I wonder how this thing works?
No batteries. Works on ambient energy alone? Sounds incredible to me but, if it works, then more power to them.
(No pun intended)
Bill
Below is a quote as found on Adgex's website on the Adgex accumulator (http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe#tabs-6). It appears they're tapping into the Schumann resonance frequencies of the earth.
Quote
To understand this energy, we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino which pierces the Earth's atmosphere in all directions. The initial source of atmospheric electricity originates from local currents and is counter acted by dynamic charges within clouds. The resulting lightning strikes pump energy into the earth-atmosphere cavity, and cause it to vibrate or resinate at extremely low frequencies; an effect called the Schumann resonance. These ultra-low frequency electro-magnetic oscillations come laden with reactive energy and travel around the Earth at the speed of light. The oscillations don't fade, have fixed frequencies, and can provide an endless supply of energy to anyone who knows how to convert it.
Gravock
Has anyone purchased one yet?
Quote from: gravityblock on August 29, 2015, 10:31:34 PM
Below is a quote as found on Adgex's website on the Adgex accumulator (http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe#tabs-6). It appears they're tapping into the Schumann resonance frequencies of the earth.
Gravock
Well, if true, that sounds like Nobel prize stuff. I am not saying it is not true...I have no idea. It just seems to me that if you could really capture that type of energy, then scale it up and run a house, or, an electric car or bike. It just seems to good to be true to me. Yes, I am a skeptic but, I have no evidence that what they claim is not true. I guess I will wait and see. I hope this is really legit. Who would not buy one?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on August 29, 2015, 11:00:02 PM
Well, if true, that sounds like Nobel prize stuff. I am not saying it is not true...I have no idea. It just seems to me that if you could really capture that type of energy, then scale it up and run a house, or, an electric car or bike. It just seems to good to be true to me. Yes, I am a skeptic but, I have no evidence that what they claim is not true. I guess I will wait and see. I hope this is really legit. Who would not buy one?
Bill
120 lumens for 12 hours before a recharge is really good. The Earth's magnetic field emits power estimated at around 2,6992139х10
24 watts. When compared to the meager 5x10
12 watts generated by all the power stations on Earth, the magnitude of the Earths power becomes apparent. I don't see why this can't be scaled up.
Gravock
On May 1, 2015 ADGEX filed an Australian provisional patent application "METHOD OF CHARGING BATTERIES AND THE CHARGER (http://www.adgex.com/News/tabid/69/EntryId/2122/THE-WORLDWIDE-SENSATION-ON-THE-25TH-OF-MAY-2015-ADGEX-STARTS-SALES-OF-TORCH-THE-FIRST-IN-THE-WORLD-USING-NEW-PRINCIPLE-OF-SELF-CHARGE.aspx)".
On May 28, 2013 in Geneva, Switzerland, Adgex Limited was nominated for the title of "Excellence in Innovation for Eco-transport (http://www.adgex.com/Media/Awards.aspx)" of the "Golden Chariot" International Transport Awards.
Adgex has received international recognition under the special international category relating to eco-friendly transportation solutions. The Advisory Council of the Award praised Adgex Limited's technology as a move in the positive direction for alternative solutions for high-volume commodity haulage.
More research is needed to confirm all of this.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 29, 2015, 11:03:44 PM
120 lumens for 12 hours before a recharge is really good. The Earth's magnetic field emits power estimated at around 2,6992139х1024 watts. When compared to the meager 5x1012 watts generated by all the power stations on Earth, the magnitude of the Earths power becomes apparent. I don't see why this can't be scaled up.
Gravock
without knowing how it works, and with my limited understanding about electrical related theory in general, my speculation is there is a capacitor being slowly trickle charged by maybe a crystal based electrolyte, making it somewhat being battery powered.
what the capacitor is made of is unknown. could a antenna be used to help recharge itself from the radiant earth energy?
also, how many hours does it take to recharge itself to build up enough power to run 12 hours?
Interesting a group of Russians setup in australia heading to an ipo. Their other energy products look interesting
http://www.adgex.com/our_businesses/Adgex_Energy.aspx
Hi E2Matrix,
Thanks for the link.
I did some further research and find the company has some pretty interesting acquisitions and technology.
This news page here details some info about the accumulator:
http://www.adgex.com/News/tabid/69/EntryId/2077/NICKEL-CADMIUM-ACCUMULATORS-OF-ADGEX-ENERGY.aspx
Quote
NICKEL – CADMIUM ACCUMULATORS OF ADGEX ENERGY
Tuesday, November 25, 2014 RssIcon
Serial Production of globally manufactured electrodes for alkaline accumulators comprise padding from porous perforated net, whereon conductive layer made of nickel and active mass or lamella is applied. Structure features of electrodes are associated with various types of accumulators: starters, tractive, continuous, and short charge, where they are applied.
Adgex Energy designed production technology of electrodes, which consist of volumetric porous nickel (or any other metal) frame instead of perforated net and lamella. The frame is filled with active mass, having good electric contact with terminal (porous nickel frame). Such solution makes production technology of electrodes for alkaline accumulators universal and enables to produce accumulators of various purpose, chemical system, and prime cost at one technological equipment.
ADGEX ENERGY Division successfully tested accumulators NKF-40, completely assembled under our technology. Fully discharged accumulator nkf-40 was charged by 100a for half an hour and demonstrated 14,2V.
You may click the link below to see a video of conducted tests on our YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLexa698RzI&list=UUWT7oEtJWuNRx6KGX6DekQA
Technical President ADGEX ENERGY Mr Yuri Ignatiev proved that our technology may implement the following:
Produce electrodes for various types of accumulators, for both tractive and starter.
Easily re-adjust for any types of systems (nickel-cadmium, nickel-zinc, nickel-iron, nickel-hydrogen, nickel-hydrid).
Significantly reduce prime cost of accumulators.
Produce unique high-capacity condensers (nickel-coal), with specifications transcending any existing species of condensers
Researches in the field of powder metallurgy revealed the role of high-dispersed powders in organization of great active surfaces during production of nickel oxide electrodes for alkaline accumulators. Usage of nickel porous frame, obtained by the method of polyurethane foam plating (non-palladic) as a frame for application of high-dispersed nickel powders, in liaison with active mass enabled to increase specific capacity of electrode from 0,35 to 0,55 AH/cm3, that in turn permits augmenting specific power specifications of alkaline accumulators (Ni-Cd, Ni-Zn, Ni-H, Ni-Tg) by not less than 20-25%.
Another know-how of ADGEX ENERGY is electric charge of porous frame with (+) and (-) active mass, which enabled to sharply raise specific power of alkaline accumulators for up to 150W/kg and expand the field of its application.
Managing Director Mr Victor Uzlov said this is the fifth generation of accumulators of existed technology. Basic advantages of ADGEX ENERGY's accumulators are as follows:
No risk of short circuit!
No harm at full discharge!
Low self-discharging level!
Service life 15 years and guaranteed not less than 25 000 cycles!
http://www.adgex.com/News/tabid/69/EntryId/2094/LAUNCHING-SERIAL-PRODUCTION-OF-NEW-GENERATION-LAMPS-POWERED-BY-ELECTROMAGNET-ENERGY-OF-ENVIRONMENT.aspx
Quote
LAUNCHING SERIAL PRODUCTION OF NEW GENERATION LAMPS, POWERED BY ELECTROMAGNET ENERGY OF ENVIRONMENT
Friday, January 23, 2015 RssIcon
ADGEX ENERGY division proudly announces that at the end of 2014, research activities of reactive electro-magnetic waves and production of special electric generator on their basis were successfully finalized. Relied on the present energy generation method, various devices, capable of restraining the high-speed flow of reactive current into usual hot current, which in turn can be used, for instance, to charge batteries, have been designed. In the nearest future, ADGEX ENERGY is ready to submit international patent application for the invention.
Technical President of ADGEX ENERGY, MR Sergei Ivchenko gives the following explanation to the nature of the present invention:
«As it is widely known, human being lives in the world of electro-magnetic emissions in environment. These are electro-magnetic emissions of space and sun. Great background emission is created by the Earth's magnetic field that possesses power 2,6992139х1024 Watt. Considering the fact, that all power stations of the world together possess power 5x1012 Watt, than significance of the Earth's magnetic field becomes clearly comprehensible. The Earth's atmosphere in all directions is pierced by the flows of electron neutrino. This is natural basis of all electric phenomenon in the Earth's magnetic field. Henceforth, it is perfectly clear, that initial source of atmospheric electricity is currents of electron neutrino sphere, and local currents and dynamic charges of clouds are their derivation. Therefore, lighting strikes are primary natural source of resonance excitation that is called as Schumann resonance. Lightings act as huge transponders, which emit electro-magnet energy on frequencies lower than 100 kHz. They are the reason of excitation of electro-magnetic oscillations in a wide range of electromagnetic frequencies, which come laden with reactive energy. Reactive electro-magnet velocity is greatly in excess of speed of light. Such impulses are also called as currentless or impulse of cold electricity, discovered by the great Serbian scientist Nikola Tesla. The present phenomena explain availability of steady ultra-low frequency oscillations, which are virtually not faded and have fixed frequencies».
ADGEX ENERGY division developed and successfully tested product line of autonomous household lamps, with capacity from 1 to 5 Watts. It should be mentioned, that tests were conducted in both hemispheres of the Earth. It will be a great present for customers, who get used to be in distant places of the world, where there is no opportunity to plug in to electricity.
Managing Director Mr Victor Uzlov said that in Fevruary 2015, ADGEX schedules to output the first serial batch of autonomous household lamps with capacity of 3 Watts and metal case. Sales are to be carried out via the Company's web site. Pre-orders can be already done today. Thus, you can become the first user of the first world lamp, long time operating without charging. Average price is 90 dollars.
http://www.adgex.com/News/tabid/69/EntryId/2122/THE-WORLDWIDE-SENSATION-ON-THE-25TH-OF-MAY-2015-ADGEX-STARTS-SALES-OF-TORCH-THE-FIRST-IN-THE-WORLD-USING-NEW-PRINCIPLE-OF-SELF-CHARGE.aspx
http://www.adgex.com/News/tabid/69/EntryId/2142/PRESENTATION-AND-OFFICIAL-ELFE-RELEASE.aspx
The patent is Australian so there is pretty much no detail given about anything. :)
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/adgex-limited/patents/
Patent AU 2015202321 : METHOD OF CHARGING BATTERIES AND THE CHARGER
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/ols/auspat/applicationDetails.do?applicationNo=2015202321
The company has acquired some other interesting tech which there isn't much information on.
Quote
EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO KNOW-HOW
• May 2013, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to "Know How" relating to elevated track
structure known as "UPRAIL". Behind this "Know How" assets, lies some of the most
advanced transport engineering, proven civil construction techniques and optimized
individual structural components.
• December 2013, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "New
Generation Combustion Engines" with potential effect of improving power by 25%,
estimated double engine-service life with 30% less fuel consumption.
• December 2013, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Method
of Dynamic Conservation of Mechanisms" with potential effect of minimization of friction
loss and estimated increase in the service life of parts and whole constructions.
• April 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Electric
Engines with Flat Printed Circuit Rotor". Flat construction of engine provides considerably
smaller, thinner and lighter structure of electric driver with low inertial moment.
• April 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Method for
Production of Ultrastrong Matrix of Mavitacetals". Qualitative augmentation of physical,
physical & mechanical and operational features of metals allow increase the next
characteristics: resistance to shock, crack and rust, heat resistance (up to 1100oC), and
tolerance to aggressive environment and abrasion resistance.
• June 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "The Method of
Energy Resource Preservation". Application of this technology extends life of mechanisms,
reduces quantity of energy consumption and polluting emissions.
• August 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Concept of
Modular Locomotives". New conception of rapidly and mutually interchangeable operative
modules of the main and supplementary locomotive's equipment with common base.
Modular structure represents non-stationary fast-detachable sections with hulls, where
equipment of common purpose is positioned.
• August 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Free
Renewable Energy". Autonomous power supply sources and alternative methods of
energy generation.
• August, 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Alkaline
Accumulator Based on Nickel-Porous Frame". Production of no-analogue universal highefficient
alkaline accumulators, with high cyclicity and low internal resistance, capable to
restore energy in 5-7 minutes.
• August, 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "EC-Gearing
with Ceramic Valve Alloys". Production technology of numerous amount of technical
aggregates on the basis of eccentric-cycloidal gearing.
• October, 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Synthesis
of Functional Material". It enables obtain high-perfect crystals with completely faceted
crystallization front, free from defects and with high transparence grade, quality of which
is the highest of any crystals ever obtained in the world.
• October, 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Drive Control
and Anti Derailment Mechanisms for Transport Systems". This is a technology, consisting
of four elements: differential, Monorail transportation system with autonomous module,
suspension device for aerial lift, module on a pneumocushion.
• October, 2014, ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Universal
Walking Mechanisms". It enables to produce walking electromechanical devices and
facilities, capable of being fitted on wheelchairs to overcome staircases and other
obstacles.
• November, 2014 ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Technology
of High-Speed Ablative Pyrolysis". Production technology of singular mobile plant, able to
restore any hydrocarbon-containing waste into power energy and high-grade eco-fuel.
• November, 2014 ADGEX has acquired Exclusive rights to the technology named "Vacuum
Integrated Technologies for Information Matrices". This is design-engineering principles of
hardware components of nanoelectronics, relied on autoelectronic (field) emission.
VORTEX HEAT GENERATOR
Construction of vortex heat generator, based on the theory of Viktor Shauberger, explosion
and implosion law, and Tesla turbine has been designed and now it is being tested. Heat
generator is capable of generating of hot water for heating or superheated vapor for private
cottages and residential estates, industrial premises and buildings. Coefficient of efficiency
of such plants is more than 100%. Operating fluid of the generators is water, oil or antifreeze,
which are spun in turbine of centrifuge up to hypersonic speed. At that, cavitation bubbles,
which liberate excess energy, consumed for heating, are formed. The system is closed type.
Turbine spinning is implemented by means of regular electric motor.
TECHNOLOGY OF AUTONOMOUS LIGHTING DEVICES AND LOW POWER SOURCES
Technology of autonomous LED lighting is based on absorption of air electromagnetic shock waves. Absorption is carried out by means of special transponders. LED or low power source are connected to such transponders. Service life of such devices is 5-10 years, unless LED is completely demolished. Capacity of such devices is 0,1 – 100W.
If it works it would be a world first. Lets wait and see if someone purchases one and lets us know how it works. Meanwhile the list of stuff the company has rights to seems excessise. You know what they say.... jack of many trades but master of none.
I've found this video, maybe it could be useful
it is translated from russian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTJldiHhCq8
There are some more informations about the lamp, Eg. that it uses the "Principle of energy generation told by Sergey Ivchenko" and it produces 3watt "but is much brighter"..
at minute 11:20 the presentation of the lamp
The production seems to start in December 2015
Here's a demonstration of the NiCd super accumulators (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4drb0HknA) by Adgex Energy. Also, check out Adgex's Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/AdgexLimited). This is a good source of information. If Adgex is the real deal, then this has Putin's name written all over it, LOL!
Gravock
Wonder if they would be interested in an AC super capacitor lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLOkV5qIOgs
Quote from: tinman on August 30, 2015, 06:05:20 AM
Wonder if they would be interested in an AC super capacitor lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLOkV5qIOgs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLOkV5qIOgs)
Making graphene super-capacitors with a DVD writer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oEFwyoWKXo). Maybe you can use this technique to make your triphene super-caps. It's actually a "non-polarized" or "bipolar" super-cap (see image below). Too bad MarkE is in a time-out, Lol!
Gravock
It seems that there is an inventor called Victor Uzlov who is the MD of the company.
http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/adgex-limited/patents/AU2015202321/ (http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/adgex-limited/patents/AU2015202321/)
I can't find anything in USPTO or EPO
There are way too many warning flags for this, some are from the claims, some are from comments made by posters:
- There is no such thing as getting power from the Earth's magnetic field.
- It would be impossible to power the device for 12 hours if you tried to collect energy from ambient electro-smog.
- The "power from exotic sources" argument is a dead duck. If that was really true why would you make a flashlight of all things?
- The price is sky-high at $99. For example, if you want to be negative and assume it's a fraud, and assume that the makers of this device are gambling that they can sell 10,000 units, then that's one million dollars. If your costs are $10 to make it, that means you could make $900,000 profit on a device that is a fake.
- If it is a "free energy" flashlight, why does it apparently only last from two to five years? Why should it "wear out?"
- A capacitor almost certainly could not power the flashlight for 12 hours and there is no such thing as a self charging capacitor. I am intentionally ignoring the known phenomenon that happens with electrolytic capacitors.
- There is no such thing as "tapping into the Schumann resonance frequencies of the Earth."
- Complete and total nonsense from their own promotional material, "we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino which pierces the Earth's atmosphere in all directions." There is no such thing as an "electron neutrino." There is no possibility of extracting energy from regular neutrinos.
- Their promotional material discussion that starts with this, "The resulting lightning strikes pump energy into the earth-atmosphere cavity..." is complete nonsense.
- This comment makes no sense, "The Earth's magnetic field emits power estimated at around 2,6992139х1024 watts."
- Just because they show some drawings of a train means absolutely nothing. I am willing to bet if you do some real searching that you will find that this company has zero footprint in the multi-billion-dollar rail transportation industry. Chances are the only thing they have done is pay an artist $500 to produce a painting of a train on an "uprail" track so they can pretend that they are involved in the rail industry. I searched on "uprail" and it looks like it is a concept only and has never actually been deployed in the field.
- This comment makes no sense, "...is there is a capacitor being slowly trickle charged by maybe a crystal based electrolyte, making it somewhat being battery powered. What the capacitor is made of is unknown. could a antenna be used to help recharge itself from the radiant earth energy?"
- When they talk about "accumulators" it really sounds like they are talking about batteries. Why not just say batteries?
- They are Russian, and that should make you become very cautious.
- They don't feel real at all: http://www.businessinternett.com/en/atlant/
I am not feeling it at all. To me, they are in the same league as the Keppe fan group.
Quote from: gravityblock on August 29, 2015, 10:31:34 PM
Below is a quote as found on Adgex's website on the Adgex accumulator (http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe#tabs-6). It appears they're tapping into the Schumann resonance frequencies of the earth.
Gravock
Thanks Gravrock, I had not noticed that explanation. That would be great if they have harnessed that kind of power although I suspect it would be expensive or difficult to get enough that way for powering something big. LED efficiency has increased so much in the last 10 years that it doesn't take a lot of power for 120 Lumens of light.
Quote from: e2matrix on August 30, 2015, 01:23:56 PM
Thanks Gravrock, I had not noticed that explanation. That would be great if they have harnessed that kind of power although I suspect it would be expensive or difficult to get enough that way for powering something big. LED efficiency has increased so much in the last 10 years that it doesn't take a lot of power for 120 Lumens of light.
They also say it can take 10-12 days to recharge when dead. It could likely be charged in less time with a small solar array in the handle.
Quote from: lumen on August 30, 2015, 01:42:18 PM
They also say it can take 10-12 days to recharge when dead. It could likely be charged in less time with a small solar array in the handle.
Not sure where you got that from since the page Gravrock posted from Adgex's site says it takes 1 to 2 hours to recharge. Where did you read it takes 10-12 days? If true I guess you don't want to run it totally dead ;)
Quote from: SoManyWires on August 29, 2015, 10:06:28 PM
thanx for the info.
it is a useful product. the developers deserve a successful future.
its not a cheap flashlight, though its price could soon lower with new versions.
without batteries, it must have capacitor based storage.
if it was a self charging battery, then it would be a capacitor.
Actually I have a lot of flashlights that are over $100 each. But I mostly quit buying when I was up to around 80+ flashlights. Some are one of a kind and I'm a collector. If I hadn't just bought another this last week I'd probably have ordered this one but really trying to quit that addiction :)
Quote from: e2matrix on August 30, 2015, 01:23:56 PM
Thanks Gravrock, I had not noticed that explanation. That would be great if they have harnessed that kind of power although I suspect it would be expensive or difficult to get enough that way for powering something big. LED efficiency has increased so much in the last 10 years that it doesn't take a lot of power for 120 Lumens of light.
It takes 2 watts to power 120 lumens from a LED light source (see image below) and their flashlight will run for 12 hours before a recharge is needed. According to Adgex, they can scale this up from watts to kilowatts (http://youtu.be/7S3MA2Z_w6o?t=599) (up to 10kW). Don't kill the messenger!
Gravock
Gravrock, Jimboot, DreamThinkBuild - thanks for the additional info. I just found this flashlight late last night and didn't have time to look deeper. This sounds even better than I thought. I didn't realize either they are talking about scaling it up. Awesome news if it is for real. I know other researchers have long talked about the power available from Earth lightning strikes and other similar sources. It will be great if they really have a good (and affordable) way of tapping into that energy source.
Note that Cree (LED manufacturer) has already broken the 300 Lumens per watt barrier. This little light does 900 Lumens (U.S. Quarter next to it for size comparison) :
60 lumens per watt? Some LEDs are much more efficient than that.
Quote from: gravityblock on August 29, 2015, 10:31:34 PM
Below is a quote as found on Adgex's website on the Adgex accumulator (http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe#tabs-6). It appears they're tapping into the Schumann resonance frequencies of the earth.
Gravock
And that's what makes me think it's a scam, because _as you know_ very low frequencies generally require very large structures for efficient transmission/reception. The wavelengths of the Schumann resonance frequencies are very long indeed.
QuoteToday Schumann resonances are recorded at many separate research stations around the world. The sensors used to measure Schumann resonances typically consist of two horizontal magnetic inductive coils (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_inductive_coil) for measuring the north-south and east-west components of the magnetic field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field), and a vertical electric dipole antenna for measuring the vertical component of the electric field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field). A typical passband of the instruments is 3–100 Hz. The Schumann resonance electric field amplitude (~300 microvolts per meter) is much smaller than the static fair-weather electric field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_weather_condition) (~150 V/m) in the atmosphere (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere). Similarly, the amplitude of the Schumann resonance magnetic field (~1 picotesla) is many orders of magnitude (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude) smaller than the Earth's magnetic field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_magnetic_field) (~30–50 microteslas).[21] Specialized receivers and antennas are needed to detect and record Schumann resonances. The electric component is commonly measured with a ball antenna, suggested by Ogawa et al., in 1966,[22] connected to a high-impedance amplifier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier). The magnetic induction coils (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_coil) typically consist of tens- to hundreds-of-thousands of turns of wire wound around a core of very high magnetic permeability (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_permeability).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances)
If they are really picking up significant energy from the SR in a handheld flashlight-sized object.... they are doing something very scientifically significant and important. So where are the peer-reviewed papers?
(Also note the mention of neutrinos in their literature.... red flags all around that bit.)
Subharmonics? Or very fine gauge very high wind coils? Why does the mention of Neutrino's make it suspicious? I've been hearing about Neutrino's for a couple decades. http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html (http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html) Do we really understand Neutrino's yet?
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 30, 2015, 02:33:31 PM
And that's what makes me think it's a scam, because _as you know_ very low frequencies generally require very large structures for efficient transmission/reception. The wavelengths of the Schumann resonance frequencies are very long indeed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances)
If they are really picking up significant energy from the SR in a handheld flashlight-sized object.... they are doing something very scientifically significant and important. So where are the peer-reviewed papers?
(Also note the mention of neutrinos in their literature.... red flags all around that bit.)
They are an unlisted Australian public company. Just read their investor pres from a year ago. My reading of suggests they were going to back door list by acquiring a small mining stock. This is not uncommon here, however it looks like that didn't happen. Still find it odd they would choose Australia to setup in. May have to buy one of those torches and send it to one of you brainiacs.
The other thing that is unusual is there is no 70+ Aussie white male on their board. Unlikely to get institutional investors without out imho
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 30, 2015, 02:20:29 PM
60 lumens per watt? Some LEDs are much more efficient than that.
If you were paying attention, then you would have noticed at the bottom of the image it says, "* the pre-defined luminous efficacy are the typical/average values", for that particular light source selected.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 30, 2015, 07:53:27 PM
If you were paying attention, then you would have noticed at the bottom of the image it says, "* the pre-defined luminous efficacy are the typical/average values", for that particular light source selected.
Gravock
For certain (obsolete) values of "typical/average".
If you were building a "free energy" flashlight, would you select an inefficient LED? If you were paying attention, you might have read the LED data sheet I attached to my post. Those LEDs cost about 65 cents US singly and a lot less when ordered in quantity.
Quote from: e2matrix on August 30, 2015, 03:15:53 PM
Subharmonics? Or very fine gauge very high wind coils? Why does the mention of Neutrino's make it suspicious? I've been hearing about Neutrino's for a couple decades. http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html (http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html) Do we really understand Neutrino's yet?
Subharmonics, meaning exactly what? Lower frequency = longer wavelength.
High wind coils? Perhaps, but did you read up on the Schumann resonance and how it is commonly detected? You'd have some trouble stuffing such things into a handheld flashlight case.
Neutrinos? No, we don't really understand Neutrinos yet, but we do understand that they don't interact much with common matter and even huge detectors only see a tiny fraction of the total flux from the sun and other sources, and there isn't any way to use them as a power source.
That's why this thing, if true, would be a very significant scientific breakthrough, and such things have antecedents in the form of real research, published papers, teams of scientists, academic and industrial and military laboratories, etc.
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 30, 2015, 08:42:23 PM
Subharmonics, meaning exactly what? Lower frequency = longer wavelength.
High wind coils? Perhaps, but did you read up on the Schumann resonance and how it is commonly detected? You'd have some trouble stuffing such things into a handheld flashlight case.
Neutrinos? No, we don't really understand Neutrinos yet, but we do understand that they don't interact much with common matter and even huge detectors only see a tiny fraction of the total flux from the sun and other sources, and there isn't any way to use them as a power source.
That's why this thing, if true, would be a very significant scientific breakthrough, and such things have antecedents in the form of real research, published papers, teams of scientists, academic and industrial and military laboratories, etc.
Harmonics might have been more appropriate depending on which side of it you are looking from - the receiving coil or the transmitting device. You should be able to wind about 299 feet (298.851 feet to be exact - a 1/4 wave antenna coil) of some fine gauge wire into a coil made for 783 KHz and it would possibly pick up harmonics of the the Schumann resonance at 7.83 Hz.
As far as antecedents and Neutrino's .... well not everyone follows the rules - especially Aussie's and Russians :D I rather like that about them.
I don't want to open a can of worms on this but I'm sure we all know about Steven Mark's TPU. It just occurred to me that regardless of whether it was working from his nearby HV power lines or something else maybe Adgex has rediscovered something like a TPU effect.
This one smells a little funny to me
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 30, 2015, 08:36:19 PM
For certain (obsolete) values of "typical/average".
If you were building a "free energy" flashlight, would you select an inefficient LED? If you were paying attention, you might have read the LED data sheet I attached to my post. Those LEDs cost about 65 cents US singly and a lot less when ordered in quantity.
Adgex
developed and successfully (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://adgex.info/tag/fonar-adgex-energy/&prev=search) tested a line of autonomous household lamps ranging from 1 to 5 watts. The 2 watts I used in my example almost falls in the middle of where they tested. However, their flashlight can power a 5 watt light source from thin air.
Gravock
Quote from: Jimboot on August 31, 2015, 02:33:18 AM
This one smells a little funny to me
Why, because they're in Austrailia? My brother has his own company producing chrome plated parts for the auto industry. He has a factory in Taiwan. Why Taiwan? It just so happens he got really lucky and got with the right person in Taiwan. He hasn't been able to duplicate what he did in Taiwan in other countries.
Why did ADGEX formed and is in Australia? (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&u=http://adgex.info/voprosyi-otvetyi/&usg=ALkJrhgiBejddkhd7f3o0yKAfchhCS8WZw)
1. The financial stability and the world's best corporate law;
2. The program of investment attraction and protection of foreign investors;
3. Protection of intellectual property (IP) and its capitalization;
4. Minerals - long-term projects;
5. access to the growing markets of India, China, Australia and Africa;
6. products and engineering ADGEX have a unique competitive position and appeal to target markets.
Gravock
Please read the specification of this strange flash light:
http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe (http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe) (click on "Specifications" in the horizontal menu)
- 3 hours per day
- after a 12 hour use it takes 7 to 14 days to recharge
- about 100 lm light output
My speculations (I can only speculate because the web site and the videos contain only sales talk):
- Good LEDs can have 40 lm per Watt of light output (continuous current supply). About 100 lm would then need 2,5 Watt. But one can drive the LEDs intermittently (e.g. like a Joule Thief or with a square wave current and a duty cycle of 10%) and the power demand goes down to a tenth i.e. 250 mW or even lower, down to 50 mW (short spikes are used to drive the LEDs). I could build build pretty bright Joule Thief driven contraptions which worked nicely with 10 mW and rather dimly with 5 mW. The LEDs could well be 3 Watt LEDs, but that would only be the maximum power one can continuously feed to them, not necessarily the power actually fed into the LEDs on average.
- The size of the flash light suggests a "chemical process". I suspect it is a pretty good chemical battery based on a rather slow chemical reaction which needs 7 to 14 days to completely recharge a super cap inside the flash light. It might well be some sort of "crystal battery" while the LEDs are driven with very narrow spikes at a low frequency e.g. 30 spikes per second.
- The way the flash light is presented does not inspire trust, it sounds and looks like a marketing scam. A serious scientist would present a credible chemical, electrical or physical process. They had enough time to file a patent and could now present the technology in a straight forward way. Third party testing is a must and if it is avoided, do not believe in what is offered. And most importantly, they can not even give you one yet. They promise something for December. The videos and the web site are terrible and avoid any credible technical information.
- If they ever actually sell the flash light the hype will fade away quickly once the first credible tests are published by the unlucky customers who handed over $99.--
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on August 31, 2015, 07:23:51 AM
Please read the specification of this strange flash light:
http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe (http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe) (click on "Specifications" in the horizontal menu)
- 3 hours per day
- after a 12 hour use it takes 7 to 14 days to recharge
- about 100 lm light output
The rate of recharge varies depending on a range of geographic and environmental factors. In one of their videos, it says if the flashlight is placed in a "dead zone", then it will take 7 -14 days to recharge. However, if the environmental factors are right, then it can fully recharge in 2 - 4 hours.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 07:49:51 AM
The rate of recharge varies depending on a range of geographic and environmental factors. In one of their videos, it says if the flashlight is placed in a "dead zone", then it will take 7 -14 days to recharge. However, if the environmental factors are right, then it can full recharge in 2 - 4 hours.
Gravock
If that promise gives you confidence, you should buy on of these wonder flash lights. Put your money on what you believe. That is the goal of a sales pitch and you look like the perfect target.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on August 31, 2015, 07:23:51 AM
- The way the flash light is presented does not inspire trust, it sounds and looks like a marketing scam. A serious scientist would present a credible chemical, electrical or physical process. They had enough time to file a patent and could now present the technology in a straight forward way. Third party testing is a must and if it is avoided, do not believe in what is offered. And most importantly, they can not even give you one yet. They promise something for December. The videos and the web site are terrible and avoid any credible technical information.
They did present a physical process, and that is energy harvesting. If Adgex is a scam as you claim, then why aren't Adgex's future products, which are based on the same technology as the ELFE flashlight, being sold at the moment. Their upcoming "Power Bank (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTxVGTQRVTM)" would draw more buyers and higher profits than the flashlight. However, the "Power Bank" isn't being sold at this time. So, it doesn't look like a marketing scam to me when you look at the full picture.
Gravock
Quote from: conradelektro on August 31, 2015, 07:56:48 AM
If that promise gives you confidence, you should buy on of these wonder flash lights. Put your money on what you believe. That is the goal of a sales pitch and you look like the perfect target.
Greetings, Conrad
That's a poor argument! I have no money to put on anything. I'm unemployed at the moment due to my employer giving me a bad payroll check that I've been trying to cash since March! I don't even have a vehicle because somebody totaled my car. Since you're Mr. deep pockets, then you should put your money on what you believe and prove your claims of it being a scam.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 04:05:00 AM
Why, because they're in Austrailia? My brother has his own company producing chrome plated parts for the auto industry. He has a factory in Taiwan. Why Taiwan? It just so happens he got really lucky and got with the right person in Taiwan. He hasn't been able to duplicate what he did in Taiwan in other countries.
Why did ADGEX formed and is in Australia? (https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&u=http://adgex.info/voprosyi-otvetyi/&usg=ALkJrhgiBejddkhd7f3o0yKAfchhCS8WZw)
1. The financial stability and the world's best corporate law;
2. The program of investment attraction and protection of foreign investors;
3. Protection of intellectual property (IP) and its capitalization;
4. Minerals - long-term projects;
5. access to the growing markets of India, China, Australia and Africa;
6. products and engineering ADGEX have a unique competitive position and appeal to target markets.
Gravock
Lol no. Because it appears they are a year behind in their back doors listing and the investor presentation from a year ago would not have inspired confidence in the local market. Just an opinion.
Quote from: Jimboot on August 31, 2015, 08:13:35 AM
Lol no. Because it appears they are a year behind in their back doors listing and the investor presentation from a year ago would not have inspired confidence in the local market. Just an opinion.
A back door listing, sometimes referred to as a reverse takeover, reverse merger, or reverse IPO, occurs when a privately-held company that may not qualify for the public offering process purchases a publicly-traded company. Why does a company have to be publicly traded in order for it to be legitimate and for the local market to have confidence in it?
Actually, up til a few months ago, they had a contract with Aatlant where you could purchase shares through them (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://14743.aatlant.com/&prev=search). Aatlant invested 1,000,000 Australian dollars into Adgex. You can even see the Aatlant logo in some of Adgex's videos. However, in July 2015, they weren't able to reach an agreement to renew their contract. It appears they're still in negotiations at the moment. This is just normal business. If Adgex is a scam, then why didn't they set up a fake investment company so people could buy fake shares? Like I said, when you look at the whole picture, then it's hard to come to the conclusion that the company and it's products are a scam.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 08:37:26 AM
A back door listing, sometimes referred to as a reverse takeover, reverse merger, or reverse IPO, occurs when a privately-held company that may not qualify for the public offering process purchases a publicly-traded company. Why does a company have to be publicly traded in order for it to be legitimate and for the local market to have confidence in it?
Actually, up til a few months ago, they had a contract with Aatlant where you could purchase shares through them (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://14743.aatlant.com/&prev=search). Aatlant invested 1,000,000 Australian dollars into Adgex. You can even see the Aatlant logo in some of Adgex's videos. However, in July 2015, they weren't able to reach an agreement to renew their contract. It appears they're still in negotiations at the moment. This is just normal business. If Adgex is a scam, then why didn't they set up a fake investment company so people could buy fake shares? Like I said, when you look at the whole picture, then it's hard to come to the conclusion that the company and it's products are a scam.
Gravock
I didn't say they were a scam, and having been a director of an Australian public company I am more than familiar with the process.
Quote from: Jimboot on August 31, 2015, 09:43:35 AM
I didn't say they were a scam, and having been a director of an Australian public company I am more than familiar with the process.
Then maybe you need to restate and clarify your position on Adgex. You've made the comments that you "find it odd they would choose Australia to setup in" (why is that so odd to you, LOL?), "it's unusual there is no 70+ Aussie white male on their board" (only a 70+ white Aussie male can do the job right, LOL. To say such a thing is racist in so many ways. Besides, the board only meets a few times throughout the year. Maybe 4 -6 times) , "unlikely to get institutional investors without a 70+ Aussie white male on their board" (why have an old school guy on the board that would more than likely be indoctrinated against the products and goals of this company, LOL? Also, who says Australia is the only place for investors, LOL?), "this one smells a little funny to me" (it is you who smells more than a little funny to me, LOL), "appears they are a year behind in their back doors listing and the investor presentation from a year ago would not have inspired confidence in the local market" (which is once again total B.S. in more than one way, LOL).
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 03:20:48 AM
Adgex developed and successfully (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://adgex.info/tag/fonar-adgex-energy/&prev=search) tested a line of autonomous household lamps ranging from 1 to 5 watts. The 2 watts I used in my example almost falls in the middle of where they tested. However, their flashlight can power a 5 watt light source from thin air.
Gravock
Great! Where can I buy one of these autonomous household lamps? Do you have one, or know anyone that does?
As to the other claim of powering a 5 watt light source from thin air... where is your actual evidence for that?
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 07:49:51 AM
The rate of recharge varies depending on a range of geographic and environmental factors. In one of their videos, it says if the flashlight is placed in a "dead zone", then it will take 7 -14 days to recharge. However, if the environmental factors are right, then it can fully recharge in 2 - 4 hours.
Gravock
That's hilarious! So now there are "dead zones" in the Schumann resonance!
Heck, I can say the exact same thing for my own "flashlight", except mine charges even faster "if environmental factors are right"... plus, I use an LED that puts out over 40 lumens on just 310 mW DC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wxuRZV-Ro
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 31, 2015, 01:16:39 PM
That's hilarious! So now there are "dead zones" in the Schumann resonance!
Heck, I can say the exact same thing for my own "flashlight", except mine charges even faster "if environmental factors are right"... plus, I use an LED that puts out over 40 lumens on just 310 mW DC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wxuRZV-Ro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wxuRZV-Ro)
Energy harvesting from the environment isn't anything new, and why you're getting your panties all in a knot over this is quite hilarious to say the least. Your reply tells me you haven't read any of their documents or watched any of their videos. The dead zone is in reference to no electromagnetic waste or noise from other sources (wifi, cell phone towers, etc). In a dead zone, then it'll take much longer to recharge by the Schumann resonance frequencies alone. In a zone with heavy electromagnetic noise, then it may only take 3 - 4 hours. Taking up to 14 days to recharge isn't an outrageous claim as you falsely assert, LOL. In fact, this shows the legitimacy of the device.
Gravock
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 31, 2015, 01:12:10 PM
Great! Where can I buy one of these autonomous household lamps? Do you have one, or know anyone that does?
As to the other claim of powering a 5 watt light source from thin air... where is your actual evidence for that?
I already provided you with the reference of them successfully powering light sources between 1 to 5 watts. The flashlight is currently being sold with a 3 watt LED. If TK can't do it, or if he can't imagine or understand how it can be done, then it's not possible to do. According to TK, taking up to 14 days to recharge a flashlight through energy harvesting techniques is breaking the laws of physics and is similar to the thought process of those who said airplanes will never fly, the atomic bomb will never go off, bubble bees shouldn't be able to fly, etc....
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Your reply tells me you haven't read any of their documents or watched any of their videos. The dead zone is in reference to no electromagnetic waste or noise from other sources (wifi, cell phone towers, etc). In a dead zone, then it could take up to 14 days to recharge by the Schumann resonance frequencies alone.
Gravock
You are falling for this one hook, line and sinker.
You said this:
QuoteThey did present a physical process, and that is energy harvesting.
You want to believe so hard that you are compromising your own common sense. "Energy harvesting" is not a physical process, it's simply a generic term and without specifying what you are talking about it is meaningless.
Also this:
Quoteit could take up to 14 days to recharge by the Schumann resonance frequencies alone.
There is no such thing as harvesting power from the Schumann resonance, yet you want to believe. Can you find any credible cases of harvesting power from the Schumann resonance? I know it is discussed all the time on the forums as an idea, but it never goes further than that.
What is the physical reality of the Schumann resonance to a object at sea level anywhere on Earth? Let's imagine something the size of a breadbox.
What does a breadbox sitting on the ground "see" with the respect to the Schumann resonance?
The answer is that it sees nothing, for all practical intents and purposes. And nothing means nothing.
The concept of the Schumann resonance is used and abused on the free energy forums, and hence people pushing fake free energy propositions also use and abuse the concept of the Schumann resonance to make money.
Gravityblock: Seriously, if you truly believe in extracting power from the Schumann resonance then I ask you to put forth a complete explanation, from "A" to "Z" for how that mechanism works. I am honestly not expecting you to be able to do that, and if that's the case you need to take a step back and think about how you are dealing with this "free energy flashlight" proposition.
What I am sensing here is like that Keppe motor, or something like the false claims of the Keshe Foundation.
Caveat Emptor.
MileHigh
TK,
In regards to the joule thief. You are more than free to hook up a joule thief to power the flashlight after the accumulator has fallen below the voltage threshold to light the LED. However, looking at the graph for the ELFE capacity over a 12 hour period, they may be using a joule thief to extend the run time from 8 hours to 12 hours.
Gravock
So what they have is a way of charging a super cap from background electromagnetic radiation.
Now all you have to do is design a small antenna and self tuning circuit that picks up this electromagnetic radiation,and charges the cap. The dead zones they speak of would be the areas that have a very weak electromagnetic radiation field(I.E-no radio station signal).
So who here can build this self tuning circuit that will charge a super cap from every day electromagnetic radiation in 4 to 8 hours?.
Quote from: tinman on August 31, 2015, 07:28:07 PM
So what they have is a way of charging a super cap from background electromagnetic radiation.
Now all you have to do is design a small antenna and self tuning circuit that picks up this electromagnetic radiation,and charges the cap. The dead zones they speak of would be the areas that have a very weak electromagnetic radiation field(I.E-no radio station signal).
So who here can build this self tuning circuit that will charge a super cap from every day electromagnetic radiation in 4 to 8 hours?.
Dr. Stiffler's research would be a good starting point, IMO. Have a look at his youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr/videos).
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Energy harvesting from the environment isn't anything new,
AS I HAVE DEMONSTRATED...
Quoteand why you're getting your panties all in a knot over this is quite hilarious to say the least. Your reply tells me you haven't read any of their documents or watched any of their videos.
Wrong again. You're on a roll here!
QuoteThe dead zone is in reference to no electromagnetic waste or noise from other sources (wifi, cell phone towers, etc). In a dead zone, then it'll take much longer to recharge by the Schumann resonance frequencies alone.
But their claim is that the device extracts energy from the Schumann resonance, not from other sources.
Quote
In a zone with heavy electromagnetic noise, then it may only take 3 - 4 hours.
AS I HAVE DEMONSTRATED, LONG AGO, but much faster.
QuoteTaking up to 14 days to recharge isn't an outrageous claim as you falsely assert, LOL. In fact, this shows the legitimacy of the device.
Gravock
Yet again wrong. The outrageousness of the claim is that it recharges FROM THE SCHUMANN RESONANCE.
Are you competing with Synchro1 to see who can misrepresent the most?
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 05:16:43 PM
Energy harvesting from the environment isn't anything new, and why you're getting your panties all in a knot over this is quite hilarious to say the least. Your reply tells me you haven't read any of their documents or watched any of their videos. The dead zone is in reference to no electromagnetic waste or noise from other sources (wifi, cell phone towers, etc). In a dead zone, then it'll take much longer to recharge by the Schumann resonance frequencies alone. In a zone with heavy electromagnetic noise, then it may only take 3 - 4 hours. Taking up to 14 days to recharge isn't an outrageous claim as you falsely assert, LOL. In fact, this shows the legitimacy of the device.
Gravock
So, this miracle light works on the Schumann resonance AND cellphone freqs AND wi-fi freqs? That must be one heck of a multipurpose receiving antenna they have invented. I really do hope that they have something special...but...I have to admit this does indeed smell bad. You posted that they said this was really good for folks living were there is no electricity. That would be great except then, there is no wi-fi nor cell towers either.
Why would they say this?
Bill
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 05:25:38 PM
I already provided you with the reference of them successfully powering light sources between 1 to 5 watts.
No, you provided me with a "they said", which is hardly any kind of reference. Where can this system be purchased for examination? Nowhere, that's where.
QuoteThe flashlight is currently being sold with a 3 watt LED.
Where is it being sold? Who has bought one? Nowhere, and nobody.
QuoteIf TK can't do it, or if he can't imagine or understand how it can be done, then it's not possible to do. According to TK, taking up to 14 days to recharge a flashlight through energy harvesting techniques is breaking the laws of physics and is similar to the thought process of those who said airplanes will never fly, the atomic bomb will never go off, bubble bees shouldn't be able to fly, etc....
Gravock
Again with the gross misrepresentations. Are you channelling Synchro again? Your strawman isn't even worth addressing in detail.
The company has made extraordinary claims which would be significant scientific breakthroughs IF TRUE, but they have not provided any credible proof of those claims.
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 07:43:53 PM
Dr. Stiffler's research would be a good starting point, IMO. Have a look at his youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr/videos).
Gravock
You'll believe any carny huckster with a good patter and some smoke and mirrors, obviously.
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 06:11:54 PM
TK,
In regards to the joule thief. You are more than free to hook up a joule thief to power the flashlight after the accumulator has fallen below the voltage threshold to light the LED. However, looking at the graph for the ELFE capacity over a 12 hour period, they may be using a joule thief to extend the run time from 8 hours to 12 hours.
Gravock
A three watt LED that only produces 120 lumens, big deal. The LEDs that I have repeatedly linked will produce that much light on less than ONE watt of DC power, and they only cost 65 cents US per unit in small quantities and much less than that in bulk.
And at 12 hours in that graph, the light output line is _horizontal_. Do you know how to interpret graphs? What is the significance of that horizontal trend line?
I have some silly suggestions on how to achieve something similar( I know nothing about electricity )
- Those old unpowered-crystal-radios, could they not cram 'Numerous' of the radio-signal receiving elements of those old radios, into a single device .
- Would it be possible to make a lattice/honeycomb/3D-mesh radio antenna to utilize every square millimeter of free space inside the torch, Or, at least utilize as much of the exterior surface as possible .
- ( And, a far-fetched idea - is it possible to make a device that actually attracts radio signals to it, deviates their normal path ( maybe an electromagnetic method )
Or, is it possible to generate some type of field( electomagnetic or electric ) around the device, and then radio signals passing through that field somehow cause energy to be generated in the device .
To provide power for these 2 suggestions, you could use the energy that the torch is already currently capable of collecting . )
- Another far fetched idea, is there any 'Theorized' Motionless/Solid-state method of multiplying electricity ( a Motionless/Solid-state equivalent of 'rotating-a-large-wheel-by-it's-axle, and then that 'large-wheel' turns 'smaller-wheels' .
( These things would be great for powering old types of LCD-display devices )
I want to post a retraction to something I said that was wrong due to my ignorance.
I said this:
Quote- Complete and total nonsense from their own promotional material, "we must follow the flow of the electron neutrino which pierces the Earth's atmosphere in all directions." There is no such thing as an "electron neutrino." There is no possibility of extracting energy from regular neutrinos.
I want to thank TK for pointing out to me that electron neutrinos exist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_neutrino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_neutrino)
It's a particle in the nuclear zoo that I was not aware of. However, I will stand by my reasonable assumption that you can't extract energy from electron neutrinos to meet the requirements for powering an LED flashlight. Assuming that you can actually extract energy from electron neutrinos, I am going to guess it would be too small by somewhere between 12 and 20 orders of magnitude. Also, when discussing electro-smog, what's a reasonable guess for the amount of power that you could pick up in a device the size of a flashlight? I am going to guess somewhere between microwatts and nanowatts. If this is actually the case, then it is impossible to pick up sufficient energy from electro-smog in a reasonable amount of time to power the flashlight for several hours. These are simple critical thinking skills that most people have, it's just matter of exploring them in your mind.
Note that there are about three parallel "stories" about how this device allegedly draws energy in from the environment. That in itself is a red flag.
If there are people that are willing to give this device a try, then four or five of you could pool your money together and actually order one. It would be an interesting experiment where the "device under test" is the vendor themselves.
MileHigh
Quote from: gravityblock on August 31, 2015, 11:19:40 AM
Then maybe you need to restate and clarify your position on Adgex. You've made the comments that you "find it odd they would choose Australia to setup in" (why is that so odd to you, LOL?), "it's unusual there is no 70+ Aussie white male on their board" (only a 70+ white Aussie male can do the job right, LOL. To say such a thing is racist in so many ways. Besides, the board only meets a few times throughout the year. Maybe 4 -6 times) , "unlikely to get institutional investors without a 70+ Aussie white male on their board" (why have an old school guy on the board that would more than likely be indoctrinated against the products and goals of this company, LOL? Also, who says Australia is the only place for investors, LOL?), "this one smells a little funny to me" (it is you who smells more than a little funny to me, LOL), "appears they are a year behind in their back doors listing and the investor presentation from a year ago would not have inspired confidence in the local market" (which is once again total B.S. in more than one way, LOL).
Gravock
do you actually read before you hit post? Or you just like to verbal and misquote? Are you on their payroll?
Quote from: Jimboot on August 31, 2015, 11:39:17 PM
do you actually read before you hit post? Or you just like to verbal and misquote? Are you on their payroll?
When tinman, MH, Tk & Bill are all on the same songsheet I'd say this one is dead. I'm sure ASIC will be investigating them sooner or later.
Quote from: Jimboot on August 31, 2015, 11:39:17 PM
do you actually read before you hit post? Or you just like to verbal and misquote? Are you on their payroll?
What did I misquote? It is you who is being verbal and racist. I only called you out on it. How can I be on their payroll when I already stated I'm unemployed? It is you who don't read before you hit post, LOL. Nothing but physiological projections by you.
Gravock
Quote from: Jimboot on August 31, 2015, 11:46:37 PM
When tinman, MH, Tk & Bill are all on the same songsheet I'd say this one is dead. I'm sure ASIC will be investigating them sooner or later.
Everything is dead according to their song-sheet. I'm sure you'll have a hand in them being investigated. How dare a company set-up in Australia and not have a 70+ white Aussie male on it's board, LOL.
Gravock
Just for the record, I have no such song sheet. I can't make any real decision on this as I have not seen one, or talked to anyone who has, or read anything in their material that shows how it works technically, not just marketing verbiage.
OK, I have an idea. I am just going to toss this out there. What if we got Chet to set up a fund to buy one of these and have it shipped to TK for evaluation? I am broke as usual but could come up with $5 or $10 and we would not need all that many folks to do so to get one...if they are indeed for sale as of now.
Of course, we would need to check with TK to see if he is interested at all or even willing to do it. He could test this against their claims and let us know if this is the real deal or not. If, as they claim, this was really a scientific breakthrough then I am sure TK would recognize that and tell us all about it. If there was some sort of smoke and mirrors associated with their claims, then I am sure he would report that to us as well.
I am not speaking for TK here and I probably should have pm'd him prior to suggesting this. I do not want him to feel pressured into doing anything. I am just raising this suggestion as a possible way for all of us to find out what is what. If I had the money, I would buy one just to see what it is...but I do not. I do not have the skills to truly test this out anyway.
Well, there it is. Let me know what you guys think...especially TK.
Bill
So who here can build this self tuning circuit that will charge a super cap from every day electromagnetic radiation in 4 to 8 hours?.
[/quote]
i couldn't build it in 4 hours or even 8 hours.
though it might be possible for someone else.
inspiring work you and others do with your self charging capacitor ideas, thanks.
what do you think about using different kinds of stainless steel mesh screening similar to the type you used?
wondering if that would matter.
there are other types of available stainless filtering screen materials i noticed, if more surface area of the steel would make it less effective or help the capacitor recharge.
oh one other thing maybe worth asking if you or anyone else might know the answer,
you referenced to the magnets on each side of the plates seemed to help the recharge process and that might have just been practical to reduce some of the space between the layers inside.
is that from the magnetic fields that helped it? because there is even stainless screening that has magnetic properties, and even ones with different grades and types of metal composition available possibly worth considering should it help.
could just using a weight or clamps as someone else mentioned create the same results instead of using magnets?
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 01, 2015, 12:34:18 AM
Just for the record, I have no such song sheet. I can't make any real decision on this as I have not seen one, or talked to anyone who has, or read anything in their material that shows how it works technically, not just marketing verbiage.
OK, I have an idea. I am just going to toss this out there. What if we got Chet to set up a fund to buy one of these and have it shipped to TK for evaluation? I am broke as usual but could come up with $5 or $10 and we would not need all that many folks to do so to get one...if they are indeed for sale as of now.
Of course, we would need to check with TK to see if he is interested at all or even willing to do it. He could test this against their claims and let us know if this is the real deal or not. If, as they claim, this was really a scientific breakthrough then I am sure TK would recognize that and tell us all about it. If there was some sort of smoke and mirrors associated with their claims, then I am sure he would report that to us as well.
I am not speaking for TK here and I probably should have pm'd him prior to suggesting this. I do not want him to feel pressured into doing anything. I am just raising this suggestion as a possible way for all of us to find out what is what. If I had the money, I would buy one just to see what it is...but I do not. I do not have the skills to truly test this out anyway.
Well, there it is. Let me know what you guys think...especially TK.
Bill
Sure, I'd be happy to do it. But I'll bet you a cheezburger that it is impossible actually to buy one of these miracle flashlights.
Quote from: gravityblock on September 01, 2015, 12:08:41 AM
Everything is dead according to their song-sheet. I'm sure you'll have a hand in them being investigated. How dare a company set-up in Australia and not have a 70+ white Aussie male on it's board, LOL.
Gravock
Listen mate I offered you an opinion about the local market and why I found this odd. You respond with insults and accusations of racism and misrepsent what I said.
I suggest you google capital gains tax in Australia
the 70s white male comment was in reference to prospectus marketing, you made it racist.
You just lost ally.
Quote from: Jimboot on August 31, 2015, 11:46:37 PM
When tinman, MH, Tk & Bill are all on the same songsheet I'd say this one is dead. I'm sure ASIC will be investigating them sooner or later.
We aren't the only ones who are just a little bit skeptical.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/adgex-flashlight-powered-by-earths-magnetic-field/
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 01, 2015, 12:34:18 AM
Just for the record, I have no such song sheet. I can't make any real decision on this as I have not seen one, or talked to anyone who has, or read anything in their material that shows how it works technically, not just marketing verbiage.
OK, I have an idea. I am just going to toss this out there. What if we got Chet to set up a fund to buy one of these and have it shipped to TK for evaluation? I am broke as usual but could come up with $5 or $10 and we would not need all that many folks to do so to get one...if they are indeed for sale as of now.
Of course, we would need to check with TK to see if he is interested at all or even willing to do it. He could test this against their claims and let us know if this is the real deal or not. If, as they claim, this was really a scientific breakthrough then I am sure TK would recognize that and tell us all about it. If there was some sort of smoke and mirrors associated with their claims, then I am sure he would report that to us as well.
I am not speaking for TK here and I probably should have pm'd him prior to suggesting this. I do not want him to feel pressured into doing anything. I am just raising this suggestion as a possible way for all of us to find out what is what. If I had the money, I would buy one just to see what it is...but I do not. I do not have the skills to truly test this out anyway.
Well, there it is. Let me know what you guys think...especially TK.
Bill
Apologies.
I went to buy one but there were too many spelling mistakes and grammatical errors. It's not hard to get a native English speaker to proof your sales copy. Too many QA alerts which would suggest bigger issues.
In reading the last couple pages I see a number of false statements and other info that is incorrect. First I don't know about spelling and grammar errors in trying to purchase but someone is apparently not reading that these will not be available until November 28th.
Next they do not state these charge just from Schumann resonance but charge from EMF smog and EMF fields generated by lightning strikes as well as Schumann. While I admit the Schumann may be a stretch we have no proof that it can't work. I suspect part of the charging may be a capacitors self charge effect.
Also charge time has been stated in one place to be 1-2 hours. I would assume that's in an area of a lot of EMF smog. When it becomes clear they are ready to ship these I may buy one depending on shipping costs. Shipping from Australia to U.S. can be very expensive so unless they setup a distribution out of China where shipping is very cheap I may or may not go for it.
I think given TK's cheeseburger addiction he would be a very biased source for testing this. Just say NO to that idea. :P
In their own words:
"You will never need to purchase any batteries for ELFE. You simply turn him off and the Adgex Accumulator will recharge ELFEs energy levels to full. Be aware that If ELFE is used continuously for more than 12 hours; he will be restored to full power within 7 to 14 days. The rate of recharge may vary depending on a range of geographic and environmental factors."
''The rate of recharge may vary
depending on a range of geographic and
environmental factors."
This is its weakness
Quote from: Jimboot on September 01, 2015, 09:56:58 AM
Apologies.
I went to buy one but there were too many spelling mistakes and grammatical errors. It's not hard to get a native English speaker to proof your sales copy. Too many QA alerts which would suggest bigger issues.
No apology needed. My comment was aimed at Gravoc who seems to think I have a song sheet that tells me to go against real free energy devices or something. I am very skeptical of this device and I think others should be as well. IF one can actually be purchased and we can get a small crowd funding thing going, TK has said he would be glad to evaluate it. That will tell us what we want to know.
Bill
Quote from: SoManyWires on September 01, 2015, 02:36:42 AM
So who here can build this self tuning circuit that will charge a super cap from every day electromagnetic radiation in 4 to 8 hours?.
i couldn't build it in 4 hours or even 8 hours.
though it might be possible for someone else.
inspiring work you and others do with your capacitor ideas, thanks.
what do you think about using different kinds of stainless steel mesh screening similar to the type you used?
wondering if that would matter.
there are other types of available stainless filtering screen materials i noticed, if more surface area of the steel would make it less effective or help the capacitor recharge.
-oops, just realized i wasn't able to edit my previously sent message, after learning about magnets not mattering at all for compression of the plates in one of your other demonstrations.
all the best
Quote from: lumen on September 01, 2015, 11:49:03 AM
In their own words:
"You will never need to purchase any batteries for ELFE. You simply turn him off and the Adgex Accumulator will recharge ELFEs energy levels to full. Be aware that If ELFE is used continuously for more than 12 hours; he will be restored to full power within 7 to 14 days. The rate of recharge may vary depending on a range of geographic and environmental factors."
Note that this statement does not jive with the light intensity vs. time graph presented up above. The graph shows a _constant_ 75 Lumens or so at the 12 hour point, with a horizontal (no decrease) trend at that point.
Q: I ran my flashlight until it went dark, and now I've waited 14 days for it to recharge itself and it still doesn't work. Why not?
A: You live in a "dead zone".
Q: Oh. Can I have my money back, then?
A: On what basis? The device works just as we said. It's not our fault that you live in a dead zone.
Yes, and it is important to remember that the current consumption of an LED is about nil.
(When you see the crap available under "symbols" in MS Word, it is amazing that they won't give us the "approximately equal" symbol)
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 01, 2015, 07:34:41 PM
No apology needed. My comment was aimed at Gravoc who seems to think I have a song sheet that tells me to go against real free energy devices or something.
Bill
It was Jimboot who said you, TK, milehigh, and tinman was on the same song sheet, and not me. I do know TK and milehigh is against OU. They'll say if it can't be self-looped, then it must be a measurement error or something and is under-unity.
Gravock
Gravoc,
Stifflers "Quantum Energy Receiver" a good starting point ? Not really.
He does not realize that the display of his desktop-mulimeter is producing the strong nf which is riding on both measurement-leads directly to the diodes of the rectifier.
By the time he and others will realize what the source is some of his gullible followers have spent money for new magnets.
***sigh ***
Kator01
Quote from: Kator01 on September 02, 2015, 04:12:36 PM
Gravoc,
Stifflers "Quantum Energy Receiver" a good starting point ? Not really.
He does not realize that the display of his desktop-mulimeter is producing the strong nf which is riding on both measurement-leads directly to the diodes of the rectifier.
By the time he and others will realize what the source is some of his gullible followers have spent money for new magnets.
***sigh ***
Kator01
Where did I say Stiffler's "Quantum Energy Receiver" is a good starting point? I said his research would be a good starting point. In other-words, his research in general would be a good starting point, IMO. If you want me to be more specific, then I would say something based around Stiffler's Spatial Resonance Frequency (SRF). For more information, see Dr. Stiffler's video on driving LEDs with no battery and no transistor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIIhgHTEoM0).
Gravock
Quote from: TinselKoala on September 01, 2015, 11:07:42 PM
Note that this statement does not jive with the light intensity vs. time graph presented up above. The graph shows a _constant_ 75 Lumens or so at the 12 hour point, with a horizontal (no decrease) trend at that point.
Their statement does jive with the light intensity vs. time graph. Adgex's accumulator is based on NiCd and we can see from the light blue line on the graph below how it stays horizontal through it's entire discharge cycle until the end. Their accumulator is more like a hybrid or a cross between a battery and a super capacitor, so it's not going to have the same horizontal line throughout it's entire discharge cycle as a NiCd battery would (the first 7 hours looks more like a lead acid battery). Towards the end of the discharge cycle where there is a dramatic decrease in the trend of the light blue line is where I suspect Adgex is using a joule thief to extend the running time from 8 hrs to 12 hrs, which would then keep a near constant 75 lumens through the rest of the discharge cycle. Adgex's graph shows a dotted vertical line at the end of it's discharge cycle around the 12 hr mark to represent it's total discharge time. This dotted vertical line shows approximately where the NiCd super-capacitor will fall below the voltage threshold required to further light the LED at any lumens, thus a horizontal line with no decrease trend at that point. Look at the Altairnano Li-ion (red line) total discharge time (TDT), it's discharge is relatively horizontal through the entire discharge cycle with little to no decrease trend at the end of the discharged cycle, similar to what we see in the Adgex's graph. Also note, how they used a dotted line to represent the TDT as Adgex did. How convenient of you to over-look the dotted vertical line at the 12 hr mark and how convenient of you to ignore the variations in the discharge cycle amongst the different types of accumulators.
Gravock
The shaking torch is more convenient/reliable.don't have to live or stand in the right area when using
Quote from: TinselKoala on September 01, 2015, 11:07:42 PM
Q: I ran my flashlight until it went dark, and now I've waited 14 days for it to recharge itself and it still doesn't work. Why not?
A: You live in a "dead zone".
Q: Oh. Can I have my money back, then?
A: On what basis? The device works just as we said. It's not our fault that you live in a dead zone.
Most people will not use their flashlight for 12 hours at a time. According to them, if you use the flashlight for a few hours per day, then it will always have a charge to provide light. 2 hours per day x 6 days = 12 hours of light. And during those six days, it will have had enough time during the worst case scenario in a dead zone to nearly maintain the flashlight at a full charge at all times. I think this is more than reasonable for nearly all of Adgex's potential customers.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on September 02, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Most people will not use their flashlight for 12 hours at a time. According to them, if you use the flashlight for a few hours per day, then it will always have a charge to provide light. 2 hours per day x 6 days = 12 hours of light. And during those six days, it will have had enough time during the worst case scenario in a dead zone to nearly maintain the flashlight at a full charge at all times. I think this is more than reasonable for nearly all of Adgex's potential customers.
Gravock
Great but, we can't buy one to test these claims? You sound like a commissioned salesperson for this product so please, tell us how/where we can buy one to evaluate? Unless, they don't really want one evaluated? Several folks here said they tried to order one but...no go.
So, what gives?
Bill
Self-discharge is the enemy of the average torch.batteries leak current to below voltage threshold while sitting around doing nothing.
Quote from: gravityblock on September 01, 2015, 12:08:41 AM
Everything is dead according to their song-sheet. I'm sure you'll have a hand in them being investigated. How dare a company set-up in Australia and not have a 70+ white Aussie male on it's board, LOL.
Gravock
Ummm...Jim did not make this post, you did. This is what I was responding to. Do you not remember making this post?
Bill
Quote from: profitis on September 02, 2015, 08:27:55 PM
The shaking torch is more convenient/reliable.don't have to live or stand in the right area when using
Do you use your flashlight for 12 hours a day, every day of the week? Come on, lets get realistic here! When I installed satellite dishes where my drill was constantly being used, I had 4 battery packs for my drill. Same principal with the ELFE flashlight. Nobody says you can't acquire additional flashlights over time if you need more than a few hours of light per day, everyday of the week.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on September 02, 2015, 08:38:45 PM
Do you use your flashlight for 12 hours a day, every day of the week? Come on, lets get realistic here! When I installed satellite dishes where my drill was constantly being used, I had 4 battery packs for my drill. Same principal with the ELFE flashlight. Nobody says you can't acquire additional flashlights over time if you need more than a few hours of light per day, everyday of the week.
Gravock
We just want to acquire 1 for testing. Are they selling them or not?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 02, 2015, 08:33:21 PM
Great but, we can't buy one to test these claims? You sound like a commissioned salesperson for this product so please, tell us how/where we can buy one to evaluate? Unless, they don't really want one evaluated? Several folks here said they tried to order one but...no go.
So, what gives?
Bill
I sound like a commissioned salesperson because I'm trying to keep things real by putting things back into it's proper context by not allowing this product and the company itself to be unfairly misrepresented without having a good cause or showing a good logical reason? Even e2matrix has said he has seen a number of false statements and info that isn't correct. I could say you and others sound like a competitor and trying to paint the company's product in a bad light in order to run the company out-of-business. We'll have to wait til the product becomes available around Nov. 28. You should be at ease that they're not taking peoples money before they have a physical item to ship, or not taking peoples money and shipping them a fake product. It takes time to acquire a manufacture and to set-up an assembly line.
Gravock
gravock''Do you use your flashlight for 12 hours a day?''
No but I'd still rather shake the thing,its more fun and more certain :)
''Nobody says you can't acquire additional flashlights
over time if you need more than a few hours of light
per day, everyday of the week.''
Most pockets say..
Quote from: profitis on September 02, 2015, 08:53:55 PM
gravock''Do you use your flashlight for 12 hours a day?''
No but I'd still rather shake the thing,its more fun and more certain :)
''Nobody says you can't acquire additional flashlights
over time if you need more than a few hours of light
per day, everyday of the week.''
Most pockets say..
Like most things, the price will fall after it's been on the market for awhile.
Gravock
Gravock''Like most things, the price will fall after it's been on
the market for awhile.''
Well one thing is for certain,as time goes by we'll get an idea for the first time in history how much people prefer to not-shake than shake their items
Well
I suppose they could sell some flashlights if they actually answered their Phone ??
Quote from: Pirate88179 on September 02, 2015, 08:35:20 PM
Ummm...Jim did not make this post, you did. This is what I was responding to. Do you not remember making this post?
Bill
No, but Jim did make this comment, "When tinman, MH, Tk & Bill are all on the same songsheet I'd say this one is dead".
By me saying that everything is dead according to their songsheet was in reference to Jim saying you were on the same songsheet as TK and milehigh. We all know what TK and milehigh's songsheet is, so don't blame or aim at me for Jim throwing you into the same group as TK and milehigh. I'm not even sure if Tinman is against the ELFE flashlight or not. Tinman appeared to have been more interested in promoting his own works of re-discovering the wheel.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on September 02, 2015, 08:53:53 PM
I sound like a commissioned salesperson because I'm trying to keep things real by putting things back into it's proper context by not allowing this product and the company itself to be unfairly misrepresented without having a good cause or showing a good logical reason? Even e2matrix has said he has seen a number of false statements and info that isn't correct. I could say you and others sound like a competitor and trying to paint the company's product in a bad light in order to run the company out-of-business. We'll have to wait til the product becomes available around Nov. 28. You should be at ease that there not taking peoples money before they have a physical item to ship, or not taking peoples money and shipping them a fake product. It takes time to acquire a manufacture and to set-up an assembly line.
Gravock
Ah, OK...good. This is the first I was aware of the Nov.28th date. Thank you for that. Yes, I agree it is good they are not taking money prior to the product actually being available. So, I suppose we will have to wait and see then?
In all fairness, I think we (the collective "we" that you speak of) are just responding to the fantastic claims made by the company for this product. You have been around here long enough to know that something like this has never been done before...right? Does not mean it can't be done but, well, anyway, I hope you see where I am coming from on this thing.
So, maybe by Christmas we can put together a crowdfunding effort to get one to test. If indeed it does what they claim, I will take my hat off to them and sing their praises everywhere that I can. I have built many lighting devices over the years so I can say that I know what a giant leap forward this would be if it is true.
Thanks,
Bill
Quote from: ramset on September 02, 2015, 09:17:29 PM
Well
I suppose they could sell some flashlights if they actually answered their Phone ??
Are you calling during the right business hours? They could be screening calls by country also. They would do this if they don't have a representative that speaks the predominant language of the incoming caller. I'm sure this company doesn't yet have a call center to efficiently take calls from around the world at this time. The nice thing about the internet is it allows these short-comings to be hidden and allows a company to reach a larger audience and a larger consumer base. Most things, has its advantages and dis-advantages. I find it hard to believe they would put a lot of time and money into their marketing campaign, websites, videos, etc and not be able to offer a product in which they're promoting. If the company won't have the ELFE available til the end of November, then it may be pre-mature on our part at this time in trying to acquire a flashlight. Also, until they have drop-shippers around the world for this product, then I wouldn't hold my breath in having one shipped directly to you due to the high shipping costs that would be expected.
Gravock
Quote from: Jimboot on September 01, 2015, 08:12:37 AM
Listen mate I offered you an opinion about the local market and why I found this odd. You respond with insults and accusations of racism and misrepsent what I said.
I suggest you google capital gains tax in Australia
the 70s white male comment was in reference to prospectus marketing, you made it racist.
You just lost ally.
No, it is you who is lost and I never misrepresented what you said, as you falsely assert. "70+" is age discrimination. "White" is racial discrimination. "Male" is sexual discrimination. "Aussie" is foreign discrimination. You used 4 consecutive racial and discriminatory words in the same sentence to say why you find it odd for them to setup in Australia. If this racism, discrimination, and Aussie exceptionalism in which you speak of isn't representative of you, then you're throwing your countrymen under the bus and painting a bad picture of them. And, don't even try to throw it off onto prospective marketing either, LOL. Like I said, Australia isn't the only country for investors. You should be ashamed of yourself!
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on September 02, 2015, 11:07:57 PM
No, it is you who is lost and I never misrepresented what you said, as you falsely assert. "70+" is age discrimination. "White" is racial discrimination. "Male" is sexual discrimination. "Aussie" is foreign discrimination. You used 4 consecutive racial and discriminatory words in the same sentence to say why you find it odd for them to setup in Australia. If this racism, discrimination, and Aussie exceptionalism in which you speak of isn't representative of you, then you're throwing your countrymen under the bus and painting a bad picture of them. And, don't even try to throw it off onto prospective marketing either, LOL. Like I said, Australia isn't the only country for investors. You should be ashamed of yourself!
Gravock
JimBoot,
Don't take this so hard. Your way of thinking has been deeply indoctrinated into our thought process throughout all of society, and in every country. I can't find you at fault for saying what you said, because what you said was done so in innocence (at least I hope, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now). However, I will find you at fault by your continual denial of the truth behind what you said, since it has now been clearly pointed out to you many times. I still have respect for you, but it's fading fast because you are being willfully ignorant in what you have said. I'm not looking for an apology. I'm only looking for fairness based on sound reasoning. Is that too much to ask?
Gravock
Quote from: ramset on September 02, 2015, 09:17:29 PM
Well
I suppose they could sell some flashlights if they actually answered their Phone ??
You must be calling from a "dead zone".... :P
Quote from: gravityblock on September 02, 2015, 09:44:06 PM
Are you calling during the right business hours? They could be screening calls by country also. They would do this if they don't have a representative that speaks the predominant language of the incoming caller. I'm sure this company doesn't yet have a call center to efficiently take calls from around the world at this time. The nice thing about the internet is it allows these short-comings to be hidden and allows a company to reach a larger audience and a larger consumer base. Most things, has its advantages and dis-advantages. I find it hard to believe they would put a lot of time and money into their marketing campaign, websites, videos, etc and not be able to offer a product in which they're promoting. If the company won't have the ELFE available til the end of November, then it may be pre-mature on our part at this time in trying to acquire a flashlight. Also, until they have drop-shippers around the world for this product, then I wouldn't hold my breath in having one shipped directly to you due to the high shipping costs that would be expected.
Gravock
I have news for you: Both Australia and the USA speak versions of English. Sometimes it's hard for one to understand the other, I'll grant you that much. But it's not going to be the reason Chet's calls didn't get answered.
You seem to be missing what they are _really_ selling though. They are selling _shares_, they are seeking large investors, and things like this magic flashlight are just the bait.
You are right about one thing, though: Don't hold your breath, waiting for a flashlight that works as claimed.
Quote from: TinselKoala on September 03, 2015, 05:35:58 AM
I have news for you: Both Australia and the USA speak versions of English. Sometimes it's hard for one to understand the other, I'll grant you that much. But it's not going to be the reason Chet's calls didn't get answered.
You seem to be missing what they are _really_ selling though. They are selling _shares_, they are seeking large investors, and things like this magic flashlight are just the bait.
You are right about one thing, though: Don't hold your breath, waiting for a flashlight that works as claimed.
They may be in Australia, but they're a Russian based company. Are their videos presented in English? No, they are not. Some of their videos may have closed captioning over-layed in English, but this was done after the production of the video. So, what makes you think they're going to setup a call center to answer calls in English and other languages prior to them accepting any orders? This would be a waste of money and resources to do so at this time, which I think wouldn't go over well with their investors.
No, I didn't miss the fact that they were selling shares. In case you didn't notice, I'm the one who first brought this up. The majority of companies of this type do seek large investors, so according to your logic, the majority of companies are fake, LOL. If you do your research, you'll find out that you currently can't buy any shares as of July 2015. IMO, this adds to the legitimacy of the company, because they could have setup a fake company to accept investments for fake shares while continuing to do so at this current time. Also, if Adgex intentionally bamboozled and hoodwinked Aatlant with a fake product line in order to obtain money from large investors, then why didn't they run for the hills on July 2015 and went underground? They haven't done this, they're still pushing forward with their product line two months later. Once again, this adds to the legitimacy of the company and it's product line. In addition to this, large investors normally require access to sensitive information and will receive demonstrations and technical details that aren't made available to the general public. If you want money from large investors, then you must impress them with more than marketing hype. This once again adds to the legitimacy of the company and its product line since they have made it this far.
I said, "don't hold your breath until there are drop-shippers around the world". You conveniently left out "until there are drop-shippers around the world". This is common sense, and i wasn't the first to say this. I only expanded on what was previously said. Now, I have yet to hear a good sound argument that shows this company doesn't have what they claim to have. All I have heard is false statements, misrepresentations, along with irrational reasoning. Until I hear otherwise, then I won't participate in misrepresenting the company or the product line itself.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on September 03, 2015, 03:44:04 AM
JimBoot,
Don't take this so hard. Your way of thinking has been deeply indoctrinated into our thought process throughout all of society, and in every country. I can't find you at fault for saying what you said, because what you said was done so in innocence (at least I hope, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now). However, I will find you at fault by your continual denial of the truth behind what you said, since it has now been clearly pointed out to you many times. I still have respect for you, but it's fading fast because you are being willfully ignorant in what you have said. I'm not looking for an apology. I'm only looking for fairness based on sound reasoning. Is that too much to ask?
Gravock
If you choose to remain ignorant that is your prerogative.
I wouldn't rush and buy anything Russian!
I.
Quote from: Jimboot on September 03, 2015, 06:59:41 AM
If you choose to remain ignorant that is your prerogative.

So, you're saying I'm ignorant to believe you used 4 consecutive words that were clearly discriminatory
and racist based? Not one, not two, not three, but four consecutive words, LOL. I now know without a
doubt that those 4 consecutive discriminatory and racist words used by you wasn't the result of it being
innocently done as I wanted to believe. Since this is the case, then you're the queen of denial in being
willfully ignorant and I have no further respect left for you. You represent the sickness that has taken
over this world. What a way to be, LOL!
Gravock
Quote from: minnie on September 03, 2015, 07:07:17 AM
I wouldn't rush and buy anything Russian!
I.
wow, those are dangerous tires.
i go to the slovakian stores where i can take my time.
Gravityblock:
QuoteSo, you're saying I'm ignorant to believe you used 4 consecutive words that were clearly discriminatory
and racist based? Not one, not two, not three, but four consecutive words, LOL. I now know without a
doubt that those 4 consecutive discriminatory and racist words used by you wasn't the result of it being
innocently done as I wanted to believe.
This is just political correctness gone crazy, completely crazy. Br real, there was nothing so offensive about what Jim said.
QuoteNow, I have yet to hear a good sound argument that shows this company doesn't have what they claim to have.
No, a thousand times NO. You know exactly what I am going to say: The burden of proof is on the claimant of the free energy device. NO arguments have to be put forward for why it doesn't work. Rather, arguments have to be put forth by the claimant as to why it should work.
Here is a simple thought experiment:
Forget about the flashlight. Imagine you have a shoe box. Two wires exit the shoe box and connect to an external LED.
You can put anything you want inside the shoe box except for a giant battery to try to reproduce the performance claims for the flashlight.
Right now common sense tells us that there is nothing that you can put inside the shoe box to pick up enough ambient energy so that it can meet the performance claims for the flashlight. You might be lucky if you could pick up a few millijoules of energy over 24 hours from electro-smog which would only be able to light the LED for a few milliseconds.
MileHigh
Quote from: gravityblock on September 03, 2015, 07:20:36 AM

So, you're saying I'm ignorant to believe you used 4 consecutive words that were clearly discriminatory
and racist based? Not one, not two, not three, but four consecutive words, LOL. I now know without a
doubt that those 4 consecutive discriminatory and racist words used by you wasn't the result of it being
innocently done as I wanted to believe. Since this is the case, then you're the queen of denial in being
willfully ignorant and I have no further respect left for you. You represent the sickness that has taken
over this world. What a way to be, LOL!
Gravock
Capital gains tax in Australia is why you won't see international investment in an unlisted au public company.
You clearly do not understand marketing a prospectus in Australia keep calling me a racist I really don't care about anonymous slander. Go and throw every last cent you have at them. You lost the argument the moment you started attacking me.
How do I block a user again?
Quote from: Jimboot on September 03, 2015, 09:40:30 AM
Capital gains tax in Australia is why you won't see international investment in an unlisted au public company.
You clearly do not understand marketing a prospectus in Australia keep calling me a racist I really don't care about anonymous slander. Go and throw every last cent you have at them. You lost the argument the moment you started attacking me.
Having or not having a 70+ white Aussie male on it's board has nothing to do with capitol gains tax as you continue to falsely assert. It is you who has made yourself a racist by using 4 consecutive racist and discriminatory words as a reason for finding it odd for them to setup in Australia. Slander is the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. 1.) I haven't made any false statements against you. 2.) You yourself is anonymous, so there is no damages that can be associated to your reputation. Go ahead and threaten me all you want. It is you who said what you said and not me. If anyone is damaging your reputation, it is you. You lost the argument the moment you started attacking a company based on racism and discrimination. 3.) If anyone is guilty of slander it is you slandering Adgex with those 4 consecutive words. You have been so deeply indoctrinated and brainwashed that I feel really bad for you.
Gravock
Jesus gravock,take a chill-pill man wtf.
Quote from: Jimboot on September 03, 2015, 09:47:36 AM
How do I block a user again?
Right click on your username, Click Buddies/Ignore List underneath Modify Profile, Click edit Ignore List Button, then enter my username and click add. You should add Jimboot to your Ignore List while your at it.
Gravock
Quote from: profitis on September 03, 2015, 06:08:52 PM
Jesus gravock,take a chill-pill man wtf.
I have a 0 tolerance for this B.S. It's totally unnecessary and uncalled for. Really, a 70+ white Aussie male? LOL
Gravock
Aww ffs this thread is gona endup like that apophasis thread I can smell it
Quote from: profitis on September 03, 2015, 06:30:36 PM
Aww ffs this thread is gona endup like that apophasis thread I can smell it
You said I'm the one who needs to chill out. However, I'm the one who gave Jimboot the benefit of the doubt and he still attacked me afterwards! WTF? I'll gladly leave this discussion. It's apparent there is too many biased people with their own hidden agendas in this thread.
Peace,
Gravock
Peace? A bit late for that.
My reference to a 70s something male on the board was in relation to what you usually see for a company going an ipo in au. It's marketing. Not racism. I didn't say they should have one.
This is me http://youtu.be/5aba3QFX1aU
I do not insult people from behind an anonymous account nor twist their words as you have done. Thank you for explaining how to block you
and now this http://freeenergy.news/news/the-rapidly-self-charging-adgex-tachyon-powerbank/
1st steorn now adgex who next.I smell a hectic gap in market that wants to be filled here.that device can easily fit a mulilayer karpen in it
Quote from: Jimboot on September 17, 2015, 10:18:19 PM
and now this http://freeenergy.news/news/the-rapidly-self-charging-adgex-tachyon-powerbank/
Perfect example of someone lying through his teeth.
Has anyone here actually supported this company?
How unfortunate that thousands of people like this exist, slowing down real progress and turning people away.
No I think its real pomodoro coz when I downloaded a pic of it it auto-destruct the pic :):)
I have ordered the Elfe 'free energy flashlight' at 1.09. and was informed about a delay of delivery of at least 3 month. I have not received anything yet .
They do not answer emails. Nobody answers the phone . I called them multiple times at 6am in Germany which is 4pm / 5pm in Australia.
Next time I will only order such devices , if they are distributed in my country, so they have to obey german law.
Quote from: TheCell on December 05, 2015, 11:32:39 AM
I have ordered the Elfe 'free energy flashlight' at 1.09. and was informed about a delay of delivery of at least 3 month. I have not received anything yet .
They do not answer emails. Nobody answers the phone . I called them multiple times at 6am in Germany which is 4pm / 5pm in Australia.
Next time I will only order such devices , if they are distributed in my country, so they have to obey german law.
Thank you for being considerate of others! I was going to order one of these flashlights myself but since no shippy; no ordery, it's that
simple. On the other hand if I receive a reasonable confirmation I'll be persuaded the other way. Shipping, as claimed, is very important
for a new company's corporate credibility IMHO, as it is easy to see a company jumping from one OU "solution" to another meanwhile
never shipping anything.
I get tired of being lied to by free energy companies.
In the style of SmartBeliever: You have to wonder about the IQ of ANYBODY who orders ANYTHING from ANYBODY over the internet
Quote from: idegen on December 05, 2015, 04:32:34 PM
The lesson?
that might be yet one more example why a predetermined method of online sales of new product releases should instead be only allowed in such that a customer can and will get a full refund without delays. especially for something that most likely doesn't really contain a can of florida sunshine, or a 'free energy' based product.
i don't like promoting ebay because they and a few others like them too need to become able to provide a more transparent shopping experience for customer$ investment through the profitable giant that ebay is. their current design has cost me a couple of times for items i would not have considered, should they force some of their sellers to be even less cryptic, and sometimes more available for customers real time questions, things that customers can expect to find in bricks and motar retail sources. there is room for improvement.
but the one option ebay does already allow that is useful for example, is their buyer protection built in that allows customers to get their money back.
and even that process could also use some revisions.
any marketers of unproven products must accept this as their only option in the future, and many of them will have to perform community service to their creditors, or even better if they were to put enough money into a escrow account held by their creditors in advance BEFORE being allowed to publish their work$ within a marketplace. no exceptions.
Quote from: Berto3 on December 05, 2015, 06:06:58 PM
In the style of SmartBeliever: You have to wonder about the IQ of ANYBODY who orders ANYTHING from ANYBODY over the internet
That is ridiculous. I just looked at my folder where I keep a PDF print of all purchases I've made on the Internet and it is easily over 2000. There has not been one single case where I lost money or was scammed. There were just a couple times things got lost in the mail and I was able to get a refund. It is a lot safer than driving into a city and buying items (risk of car accidents, being mugged and more). I think you have to wonder about the IQ of anyone who does NOT use the Internet to buy at least some things since you can nearly always save money buying on the Internet.
01000110 01110010 01101111 01101101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110110 01100101 01110010 01111001 00100000 01101000 01101001 01100111 01101000 00100000 01001001 01010001
I have to agree with e2matrix. I haven't kept an accurate count but I have bought over 200 items from Ebay and probably at least 100 items from other places. I have not lost on one single item. There have been a few times I have had to ask for a refund because an item wasn't working after I got it or it got damaged in shipping but I have always gotten a refund for those items. Using common sense and some homework can almost totally eliminate any risks.
Carroll
Hello,
things might turn out good, because today I received a confirmation e-mail from Vasily Muzanov in which he states he has answered me in an e-mail from the 19thNov. Which I did not receive. I searched in my e-mail app for the date , for the name muzanov (and will get only one mail from him ; the one from today) .
I searched all folders including spam , waste-basket , e-mail-in , and the specal folder 'elfe' which I made for storing all elfe related mails. And now I can be pretty sure, that the his answering-mail was intercepted.
At this momentary state I would consider the firm as trustworthy.
Now the Mail-Content :
Hello, Mr. XXXXXX![/font][/color]
My name is Vasily and I am a project manager in ADGEX Limited [/font][/color]
In fact, I received and answered you e-mail (please find attached my answer to you)[/font][/color]
It is strange to me that you didn't see (didn't receive) it[/font][/color]
We apologize for the inconvenience caused [/font][/color]
Please be advised, that if you didn't cancel your order and payment, you ELFE is almost ready and will be shipped at earliest[/font][/color]
We experienced some problems with preparation of orders because of abundant number of orders and rapid start of the product rollover[/font][/color]
I'd like to present our apologies again for the delay in shipping [/font][/color]
[/font][/color]
Best Regards,
[/font][/color]
[/font][/color]
Quote from: TheCell on December 07, 2015, 07:44:58 AM
Hello,
things might turn out good, because today I received a confirmation e-mail from Vasily Muzanov in which he states he has answered me in an e-mail from the 19thNov. Which I did not receive. I searched in my e-mail app for the date , for the name muzanov (and will get only one mail from him ; the one from today) .
I searched all folders including spam , waste-basket , e-mail-in , and the specal folder 'elfe' which I made for storing all elfe related mails. And now I can be pretty sure, that the his answering-mail was intercepted.
At this momentary state I would consider the firm as trustworthy.
Now the Mail-Content :
Hello, Mr. XXXXXX![/font][/color]
My name is Vasily and I am a project manager in ADGEX Limited [/font][/color]
In fact, I received and answered you e-mail (please find attached my answer to you)[/font][/color]
It is strange to me that you didn't see (didn't receive) it[/font][/color]
We apologize for the inconvenience caused [/font][/color]
Please be advised, that if you didn't cancel your order and payment, you ELFE is almost ready and will be shipped at earliest[/font][/color]
We experienced some problems with preparation of orders because of abundant number of orders and rapid start of the product rollover[/font][/color]
I'd like to present our apologies again for the delay in shipping [/font][/color]
[/font][/color]
Best Regards,
[/font][/color]
[/font][/color]
that is certainly encouraging, they managed to get back to you. it is possible there are actually ironing out production line related challenges.
the product could have caused that many orders.
The delay was caused by a power outage, and no one in the plant had any flashlights so, they could not build anything.
Oh wait....
Ha ha.
Bill
Quote from: TheCell on December 05, 2015, 11:32:39 AM
I have ordered the Elfe 'free energy flashlight' at 1.09. and was informed about a delay of delivery of at least 3 month. I have not received anything yet .
They do not answer emails. Nobody answers the phone . I called them multiple times at 6am in Germany which is 4pm / 5pm in Australia.
Next time I will only order such devices , if they are distributed in my country, so they have to obey german law.
I'm also from Germany and i have ordered one some weeks ago.
I think if you payed with PayPal you have 180 days to recall your money.
This is what i will do if i don't receive anything.
I don't think they can afford sending nothing, because everyone would recall the money.
They will send something, but maybe it will not work as expected.
For me it was an experiment. If it doesn't work, the loss of $99 will not ruin me. ;)
I hope that it will work, but i don't expect it. The explanations on their website are clearly BS.
Quote from: skywatcher on December 14, 2015, 08:43:12 AM
I'm also from Germany and i have ordered one some weeks ago.
I think if you payed with PayPal you have 180 days to recall your money.
This is what i will do if i don't receive anything.
I don't think they can afford sending nothing, because everyone would recall the money.
They will send something, but maybe it will not work as expected.
For me it was an experiment. If it doesn't work, the loss of $99 will not ruin me. ;)
I hope that it will work, but i don't expect it. The explanations on their website are clearly BS.
And they say, it takes three months to ship...
And another three to go.
And what about if all buyers live in the "dark spot"?
Quote from: skywatcher on December 14, 2015, 08:43:12 AM
I'm also from Germany and i have ordered one some weeks ago.
I think if you payed with PayPal you have 180 days to recall your money.
This is what i will do if i don't receive anything.
I don't think they can afford sending nothing, because everyone would recall the money.
They will send something, but maybe it will not work as expected.
For me it was an experiment. If it doesn't work, the loss of $99 will not ruin me. ;)
I hope that it will work, but i don't expect it. The explanations on their website are clearly BS.
PayPal will also protect you or refund you if an item is significantly different than what was stated - i.e. it does not work as stated. If it is a scam use PayPal to get your money back. PayPal used to limit to 45 days but I think you are correct that it is now 6 months or 180 days. I got a refund on an item that had not shown up after about 2 months so I would suggest if you don't have it after five or five and a half months to request a refund. If you wait until the last couple days you may not have time to determine if it works as stated.
https://www.facebook.com/AdgexLimited (https://www.facebook.com/AdgexLimited)
>>> ADGEX Limited I would like to inform that Elfe flashlights have been shipped before New Year for all customers.4 · 31. Dezember 2015 um 19:42
So they should arrive soon... hopefully... ::)
If anyone gets one please post a tear down video. I am guessing it is probably just some magnesium copper crystal cells with LED's, a joule thief and maybe even a couple of caps or Nicad so it can hold a charge but I guess we will find out.
Quote from: Nink on January 04, 2016, 07:43:05 PM
If anyone gets one please post a tear down video. I am guessing it is probably just some magnesium copper crystal cells with LED's, a joule thief and maybe even a couple of caps or Nicad so it can hold a charge but I guess we will find out.
If that's the case then they are lying and committing fraud. Within the sea of sincere amateur experimenters there is a sea of criminals.
Don't be surprised if they never deliver anything.
Quote from: Nink on January 04, 2016, 07:43:05 PM
If anyone gets one please post a tear down video. I am guessing it is probably just some magnesium copper crystal cells with LED's, a joule thief and maybe even a couple of caps or Nicad so it can hold a charge but I guess we will find out.
A 'crystal cell' of the size which would fit inside the flashlight would never be able to deliver enough energy to operate a 120 lumen LED for 2-3 hours per day, as they claim.
We will know it soon... now that they have said they already have sent out all the ordered lamps, we can expect that they will arrive in the next days.
How long does it take from Australia to Europe ? Maybe 2 weeks maximum ?
When it arrives i will start testing it, but i will not open it before i have finished my tests. I will switch it on for 2-3 hrs every day and document the on-times.
If it only has some sort of battery inside, it will be empty after some days. The maximum time can be calculated by comparing the inside volume of the lamp housing with the energy density data of known battery types.
Quote from: skywatcher on January 05, 2016, 05:45:13 AM
A 'crystal cell' of the size which would fit inside the flashlight would never be able to deliver enough energy to operate a 120 lumen LED for 2-3 hours per day, as they claim.
We will know it soon... now that they have said they already have sent out all the ordered lamps, we can expect that they will arrive in the next days.
How long does it take from Australia to Europe ? Maybe 2 weeks maximum ?
When it arrives i will start testing it, but i will not open it before i have finished my tests. I will switch it on for 2-3 hrs every day and document the on-times.
If it only has some sort of battery inside, it will be empty after some days. The maximum time can be calculated by comparing the inside volume of the lamp housing with the energy density data of known battery types.
A commercial magnesium copper crystal cell battery that size could deliver about 1.5V @ 100mA = 0.15W so you could charge a battery for 24 hours = 1.5*.1*24=3.6W now we need to run for 2 to 3 hours so lets say 2.5h so 3.6/2.5 = 1.44W but I also get an extra .15 as I don't have to charge battery while I am using it so 1.44W + .15W = 1.59W to deliver 120 Lumen with a Joule thief circuit.
Quote from: Nink on January 05, 2016, 07:50:14 AM
A commercial magnesium copper crystal cell battery that size could deliver about 1.5V @ 100mA = 0.15W so you could charge a battery for 24 hours = 1.5*.1*24=3.6W now we need to run for 2 to 3 hours so lets say 2.5h so 3.6/2.5 = 1.44W but I also get an extra .15 as I don't have to charge battery while I am using it so 1.55W + .15W = 1.59W to deliver 120 Lumen with a Joule thief circuit.
But how big is a crystal cell which can deliver 1.5V and 100 mA ?
I did some experiments with crystal cells, and a cell fitting into such a flashlight (minus volume required by accu) will barely make a single small LED glow.
It can deliver maybe 1 mW which is far away from the required 150 mW.
Or to say it differently: a crystal cell of this size delivering 150 mW continuously would also be worth 99$. ;)
Quote from: skywatcher on January 05, 2016, 08:00:38 AM
But how big is a crystal cell which can deliver 1.5V and 100 mA ?
I did some experiments with crystal cells, and a cell fitting into such a flashlight (minus volume required by accu) will barely make a single small LED glow.
It can deliver maybe 1 mW which is far away from the required 150 mW.
Or to say it differently: a crystal cell of this size delivering 150 mW continuously would also be worth 99$. ;)
How big is relative. Crystal cells are dependent on the surface area of the exposed magnesium. A simple trick is drill holes in the side of your magnesium rod and it will increase the surface area, increasing Amps. The torch has a 2 year warranty / 5 year life ?? so I am sure they have given a lot of thought to creating a commercial magnesium anode with the maximum surface area that can last a minimum of 2 years and maybe up to 5 but they don't really care it is out of Warranty. So they probably used a star shape in a rod (again I am only guessing but this is what I would do) so you would significantly increase the surface area but you reduce the life.
The reason you could only barely light one LED was a volts issue not Watts. Here is flyfishers video and even without a joule thief or a battery store he is lighting a bank of LED's directly from a 4.5V crystal cell (3 cells 2" tall each in series).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV9waxkdw-Q&feature=youtu.be&t=288
Quote from: Nink on January 05, 2016, 09:44:27 AM
The reason you could only barely light one LED was a volts issue not Watts.
I used a joule thief, but under load the cell voltage went down to 0.6 V and current was only a few microamps max.
QuoteHere is flyfishers video and even without a joule thief or a battery store he is lighting a bank of LED's directly from a 4.5V crystal cell (3 cells 2" tall each in series).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV9waxkdw-Q&feature=youtu.be&t=288 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV9waxkdw-Q&feature=youtu.be&t=288)
I don't know how much current this LED bank is drawing, but if we go back to our 150 mW calculation for the flashlight and a lifetime of only 2 years = 17500 hrs we would need 2628 Wh of energy. There is no battery in the world which can store 2628 Wh of energy and fits into a flashlight.
Regarding the ELFE flashlight, the most likely scenario is the following:
They can not afford sending nothing because then most customers will recall their money via Paypal. So they have to send anything to avoid this.
If they send a flashlight with normal batteries, most people will notice this. But not many of them will send it back because this costs a lot of money.
If you send it back they can say ok we will send you a new one (which of course will not be different) or they can say we are sorry but we told you that it will not work in all places...
Quote from: skywatcher on January 05, 2016, 07:34:28 PM
I used a joule thief, but under load the cell voltage went down to 0.6 V and current was only a few microamps max.
I don't know how much current this LED bank is drawing, but if we go back to our 150 mW calculation for the flashlight and a lifetime of only 2 years = 17500 hrs we would need 2628 Wh of energy. There is no battery in the world which can store 2628 Wh of energy and fits into a flashlight.
Regarding the ELFE flashlight, the most likely scenario is the following:
They can not afford sending nothing because then most customers will recall their money via Paypal. So they have to send anything to avoid this.
If they send a flashlight with normal batteries, most people will notice this. But not many of them will send it back because this costs a lot of money.
If you send it back they can say ok we will send you a new one (which of course will not be different) or they can say we are sorry but we told you that it will not work in all places...
Bingo! I suppose we will see soon but, I do not think you are wrong. They left a big out....may not work in all areas...like YOURS, ha ha.
Bill
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2016:01:07#ELFE_flashlight_defect_postpones_shipment (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2016:01:07#ELFE_flashlight_defect_postpones_shipment)
ELFE flashlight defect postpones shipment
QuoteOn Wednesday, January 6, 2016 11:29 PM, ADGEX LTD <info@adgex.com> wrote:
Hello Mr. [Bill] Browning!
On behalf of The Board, I'd like to present profound apologies for delay in delivery of ELFE flashlights.
It was initially announced, that all orders would be sent before end-of-the-year holidays and in fact, they were! Complete batch of flashlights were produced and some of them were shipped. However, we found a defect when testing (approximately 14 samples out of 1000 flashlights), caused by a careless and unsatisfactory assembly by one of our sub-contractors.
We care for quality of our ELFE and did not want you to accidentally receive a defective product. Considering this fact, we decided to recall entire batch for thorough double-check and resolution of the present problem.
My assumption is that this is criminal activity and the quote above is a grotesque lie. The real story is possibly something like this:
No flashlights were shipped, no defects were found, and it's just a stalling tactic to process more cash-up-front orders.
After more orders come in, they will buy a few thousand Dollar-store LED flashlights from a cheap cheap Chinese manufacturer. They will put a sticker on the flashlights to brand them as theirs and pour a bit of potting compound into the flashlights to deter casual opening up of the devices, complaints, and returns. Their total cost per boxed, labelled, and potted LED flashlight will be less than $1.50 USD.
The cheapo LED flashlight may not even resemble the flashlight that they have in their marketing literature. They couldn't care less.
So they sell a flashlight for $100 USD that costs them $1.50 USD. They can live with the Paypal credits back to those people that paid via that service and want their money back.
So let's say they get orders for 2000 flashlights. They ship their customers the potted junk ordinary Chinese LED flashlights and take the profits and then just run away. When average people start complaining they will be long gone.
It's only a guess, but I think it is a reasonable guess. Inter-spaced between the altruistic and sometimes naive amateur experimenters are criminal con artists out to steal a buck. They certainly make for strange bedfellows.
Quote from: MileHigh on January 08, 2016, 10:13:25 PM
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2016:01:07#ELFE_flashlight_defect_postpones_shipment (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Free_Energy_Blog:2016:01:07#ELFE_flashlight_defect_postpones_shipment)
ELFE flashlight defect postpones shipment
My assumption is that this is criminal activity and the quote above is a grotesque lie. The real story is possibly something like this:
No flashlights were shipped, no defects were found, and it's just a stalling tactic to process more cash-up-front orders.
After more orders come in, they will buy a few thousand Dollar-store LED flashlights from a cheap cheap Chinese manufacturer. They will put a sticker on the flashlights to brand them as theirs and pour a bit of potting compound into the flashlights to deter casual opening up of the devices, complaints, and returns. Their total cost per boxed, labelled, and potted LED flashlight will be less than $1.50 USD.
The cheapo LED flashlight may not even resemble the flashlight that they have in their marketing literature. They couldn't care less.
So they sell a flashlight for $100 USD that costs them $1.50 USD. They can live with the Paypal credits back to those people that paid via that service and want their money back.
So let's say they get orders for 2000 flashlights. They ship their customers the potted junk ordinary Chinese LED flashlights and take the profits and then just run away. When average people start complaining they will be long gone.
It's only a guess, but I think it is a reasonable guess. Inter-spaced between the altruistic and sometimes naive amateur experimenters are criminal con artists out to steal a buck. They certainly make for strange bedfellows.
Shipment Postponed a week. Has it been a week yet since the 6th of January.
Get your cash back from eBay before its too late. Why let the crooks take your money?
I received my Elfe Flashlight at the post office.
The flashlight functions pretty well; if it meets the automatically recharging claim ; time will tell.
It is well sealed, no chance to open it by hand, and I would not try so; its unique.
For now I will do some tests until the light goes dimm and see if it will recharge by itself.
I have ordered mine at 1st Sep 2015. Waiting pays off.
[Admin: ZIP File removed due to wrong format. See later posts where to download it...}
2nd attachment
[Admin: ZIP File removed due to wrong format. See later posts where to download it...}
3rd attachment
[Admin: ZIP File removed due to wrong format. See later posts where to download it...}
Hmm
all "Grotesque lies" aside ...[an _assumption_ quoted above [which is soo funny all by itself]]
Thanks for sharing your delivery ,looking forward to the followup !
Chet K
Awesome! Looking forward to your investigation!
I am having problems trying to look at the zip files. They seem to unzip OK and show the file is a JPG file. When I then try to open that file I get an error that says "unexpected end of data error". Is anyone else having problems?
Carroll
I forgot to add my thanks for you sharing your delivery information. It looks like some of the naysayers were proven wrong on at least one of their claims that nothing would ever be delivered. Time will tell if they are proven wrong on any of their other claims. I will be eagerly waiting for your results after a week or so of testing.
Carroll
Testresults will be published in about 5 days.
The original zip file were ok :extracting and viewing the content no probs at all.
I will try solve this prob.
Thanks.
The problem might be on my end although I can unzip other files with no problem. I am using 7zip to extract the files. Unless others are having problems I wouldn't waste too much time trying to fix it.
Carroll
Downloading the zip's from this site and my winrar runs into the same problem;
use these links instead:
DSC00461.JPG http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/600/#.VrYW4lLXbMo
DSC00466.JPG http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/601/#.VrYXOFLXbMo
DSC00470.JPG http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/602/#.VrYXjlLXbMo
Quote from: TheCell on February 06, 2016, 10:33:50 AM
Testresults will be published in about 5 days.
The original zip file were ok :extracting and viewing the content no probs at all.
I will try solve this prob.
Perhaps you could continue the testing for at least a month after that? I realize that it will become a pain to turn it on and off every day but you must know that LED flashlights last a hell of a long time on a single set of alkaline batteries.
Now I can see the files. Thanks! That is a very nice looking flashlight.
Carroll
Quote from: MileHigh on February 06, 2016, 11:14:11 AM
Perhaps you could continue the testing for at least a month after that? I realize that it will become a pain to turn it on and off every day but you must know that LED flashlights last a hell of a long time on a single set of alkaline batteries.
I have a Joule Thief which runs up to 4 months on a AAA battery (an alkaline battery not a rechargeable battery). I just changed the alkaline battery yesterday. The now empty battery (less than 0.6 Volt) was in there since October 2015
I could easily fit six of these AAA batteries into the "miracle flash light" which would give six fairly bright LEDs for up to 4 months. So, if you turn on my Joule Thief only 3 hours a day (not 24 hours as I do), you would have light for up to 32 months. May be more, because continuous operation is harder on a battery than only 3 hours per day.
Be careful, some good strong batteries in the "miracle flash light" might give you "3 hours a day of meagre light" for more than a year.
And how long is the warranty? I guess it is one year!I like this scam, an ingenious miracle of deception.
Just open up the "miracle flash light" carefully and show us photos of its interiors.
You will never have the patience to test the "miracle flash light" long enough. And after a year, what can you say, if it stops? Would that be a reasonable time of operation? Yes it would be, nobody can successfully cry foul if something breaks after a year. And will you really turn it on for 3 hours every day for a year? So, it will last two years or more. If you use the "miracle flash light" only occasionally it will in fact last for many years (till the big batteries start to leak).
I had a plumber in my house recently and he had a nice LED flash light. I asked him about it and he said "I have it already longer than a year and the batteries are still good". Thinking about his remark I came to the following conclusion: he might use it may be 1 hour a day (occasionally shining it on some fittings in a dark corner). LEDs are about ten times more efficient than the old little filament light bulbs. Therefore he can use his LED flash light ten times longer than his old "bulb flash light". And that is already a miracle in the eye of a layman. After a year he has forgotten when he changed the batteries the last time.
I am pretty sure that this is the "miracle" of the "miracle flash light". A good battery with a huge capacity (like 10 AAA alkaline batteries) will light a few LEDs fairly bright three hours a day for at least a year if not two years. But who lights a flash light every day for 3 hours? And behold, you are not allowed to light it longer than 3 hours a day, your warranty may evaporate.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: TheCell on February 06, 2016, 08:59:14 AM
I received my Elfe Flashlight at the post office.
The flashlight functions pretty well; if it meets the automatically recharging claim ; time will tell.
It is well sealed, no chance to open it by hand, and I would not try so; its unique.
For now I will do some tests until the light goes dimm and see if it will recharge by itself.
I have ordered mine at 1st Sep 2015. Waiting pays off.
For those who may not have seen this yet, this is what they say about usage and recharging of the
ELFE flashlight on the Adgex website:
"
ELFE is equipped with a 3 Watt LED light and will provide a powerful stream of light for over 12 hours.
The graph below demonstrates ELFEs capacity over a 12 hour period:
...
ELFE will continue to emit light for several days. The power of light emitted however will decrease significantly over time.
With normal use, of approximately three hours per day, ELFE will perform at peak levels for days on end.
You will never need to purchase any batteries for ELFE. You simply turn him off and the Adgex Accumulator will recharge
ELFEs energy levels to full.
Be aware that If ELFE is used continuously for more than 12 hours; he will be restored to full power within 7 to 14 days. The rate of recharge may vary depending on a range of geographic and environmental factors.ELFE durable aluminium casing ensures he is resistant to damage which makes him ideal for outdoor activities.
Power Source: Adgex Accumulator deriving energy from the Earths magnetic fields, from solar radiation, & from industrial & environmental electromagnetic noise.
"
http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe
Yep I want to see apologies from all the naysayers that it would never be delivered :P Much thanks to TheCell for taking the risk in buying one of these. Looking forward to your evaluation. Do you by chance have a Lumen tester? They are fairly cheap on eBay and that may add some credibility to any tests. The one I got was about $20 with shipping.
Quote from: Void on February 06, 2016, 01:12:42 PM
For those who may not have seen this yet, this is what they say about usage and recharging of the
ELFE flashlight on the Adgex website:
"
ELFE is equipped with a 3 Watt LED light and will provide a powerful stream of light for over 12 hours.
The graph below demonstrates ELFEs capacity over a 12 hour period:
...
ELFE will continue to emit light for several days. The power of light emitted however will decrease significantly over time.
With normal use, of approximately three hours per day, ELFE will perform at peak levels for days on end.
You will never need to purchase any batteries for ELFE. You simply turn him off and the Adgex Accumulator will recharge
ELFEs energy levels to full.
Be aware that If ELFE is used continuously for more than 12 hours; he will be restored to full power within 7 to 14 days.
The rate of recharge may vary depending on a range of geographic and environmental factors.
ELFE durable aluminium casing ensures he is resistant to damage which makes him ideal for outdoor activities.
Power Source: Adgex Accumulator deriving energy from the Earths magnetic fields, from solar radiation, & from industrial & environmental electromagnetic noise.
"
http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe
Go on pull it apart. Get a hacksaw. Please do it. post a paypal address or something we can all chip in $5 for a tear down. I am still betting it is a magnesium crystal battery and a Li-ion battery and a joule thief.
Conrad:
I think you are 100% correct. In effect, these "criminals" are taking advantage of the properties of an LED flashlight and human psychology. No matter how you look at it, there will be huge profits even if a substantial proportion of the flashlights are returned for credit. After all, they are selling a $5 flashlight for $100.
Even if somebody opens one up and reports nothing special, they are still going to make huge profits.
The grotesque lie is the claim that there is an "Adgex Accumulator" that gets energy from the Earth's magnetic field, among other things. It's impossible for a flashlight to get any energy from the Earth's magnetic field.
The true El Cheapo LED flashlights that you see in Dollar stores are usually $2 and they are crap. They have nice aluminum bodies and an array of conventional white LEDs and no lens. They usually have three ultra-cheap AAA batteries in them. Their Achilles Heel is the on-off switch which fails after a few weeks and gets intermittent and drives you insane.
However, at one of those hobbyist electronic stores they had $3 LED flashlights that used a true power LED for lighting and had a true glass lens for focusing the beam. The most important part is they have real off-low-high switches that really work. I bought three of them for $9 plus tax, and then removed the El Cheapo AAA batteries and replaced them with proper Duracell alkaline batteries. Let's say the whole thing cost me $20 and I got three LED flashlights that will last for years, perhaps five years or much longer than that.
MileHigh
Quote from: Nink on February 06, 2016, 01:56:52 PM
Go on pull it apart. Get a hacksaw. Please do it. post a paypal address or something we can all chip in $5 for a tear down. I am still betting it is a magnesium crystal battery and a Li-ion battery and a joule thief.
In my opinion (or my guess) it is chemistry. There is
- either a known battery chemistry, just in a big enough quantity to last at least a year (with 3 hours use per day),
- or a modified known battery chemistry which has an upper limit of chemical reaction per hour. So, after 12 hours of use one chemical component is deplete and has to be slowly built up again (from crystals or electrodes) within 7 to 14 days. The main factor for "re-saturation" will of course be temperature, so, in a hot environment it will be seven days and in colder climates 14 days or even never.
- To make the power consumption of the LEDs as low as possible there is a
"Joule Thief type circuit" (pulsed operation of the LEDs with a rather short On-Time). I estimate, that 0.5 mA per LED on average, with ten LEDs 5 mA on average at 1.2 Volt is sufficient for decent (but not really bright) light.
The big "miracle flash light" can contain plenty of chemistry for that:3 hours per day is 1095 hours per year
1095 x 0.005 = 5,475 Ampere hours (at 1.2 Volt) per year
I have AA rechargeable batteries with 2.4 Ampere hours at 1.2 Volt. At least 6 of them would fit into the miracle flash light. Alkaline AA batteries have a even higher capacity than 2.4 Ampere hours. So, it would take just 2 of these good alkaline AA batteries.
The trick is the 3 hours per day.
If you calculate 12 hours every week:
12 x 52 = only 624 hours per year
624 x 0.005 = 3.12 Ampere hours (at 1.2 Volt) per year
So it would take two of my 2.4 Ampere hour AA batteries or just one of the good alkaline AA batteries.
Now you can increase the spent power (the brightness of the LEDs) by adding AA batteries: 6, 9 even 12 would fit into the "miracle flash light" if you just fill in the chemistry (without the housings).
My verdict:
Good standard battery chemistry and a Joule Thief type circuit (short pulses to the LEDs) gives you 3 hours a day for at least one year or 12 hours every week for at least one year.
I can believe that two years might be possible. And because people use flash lights only occasionally the "miracle flash light" indeed lasts forever (if forever is five years). In a world of consumerism, five years of use is indeed forever. (Most people do not use their car longer than five years and get a new cell phone every year. A flash light will be forgotten in some drawer after five years.) After five years you can not sue anybody if the thing starts to fail.
There might be patient and knowledgeable people who will bring the "miracle flash light" down by really rigorous testing, but who will listen to them? The miracle firm can obtain hundreds of positive reviews from occasional-laymen-users.
Even if you cut it open and you find the chemistry in it, the miracle firm can claim it were a "miracle chemistry" which is "replenished" by magnetism and electromagnetic radiation or by the sun. Do you have access to a gas chromatograph to exactly determine the type of chemistry? Whatever you do, they can keep up the scam because the flash light does what is does forever (which is five years for all practical purpose).
I love this scam, these scammers are much more clever than I ever was and will ever be.
@TheCell: Please publish the exact measurements (up to the millimetre) of the miracle flash light so that I can calculate its volume and compare it with the volume of an AA battery (how many AA batteries fit into the miracle flash light volume wise without the housings?). I will go to the stores to read off the Ampere hours of good Alkaline AA or bigger batteries just to have good data. Not all batteries have the Ampere houres printed on them but in some stores they have many brands and some might show this information.
@TheCell: if it is not too much trouble you could buy a cheapo LED-flash light in a store (3.-- to 5.-- Dollars) in order to visually compare its brightness to the miracle flash light. Do the comparison at night by switching them on alternatively. Your eye will adjust within seconds and perceive the same brightness, but you can see if one looks brighter only very shortly after switching to it. It is also good to shine them at a wall three meters away. This gives you a better brightness perception because you are seeing the reflected light, which is much lower than direct light. My Joule Thief lamps are easily out-performed at the "wall test" by cheapo LED flash lights.
@MileHigh: well, this is not a difficult miracle but an excellent scam (if we give points to scams disregarding morality). But the scam might be even dumber, there could as well be three ordinary Alkaline AA batteries in the aluminium housing, or a little bit thicker Alkaline batteries as available in the stores. The marketing with the slick aluminium housing is also great. Even the cell phone manufacturers sell "metal housing" as a quality feature. Still, this scam can not haul in real big money. How many can they sell? If they sell 10.000.-- and they are at least 5 people, it would be at most 200.000.-- per person. Good enough, but not a life changer. Income tax would also eat a lot away. As I said, the real good scams are not in "technology", they provide intangible goods which cost exactly nothing (hot air coming out of a mouth). Every lawyer worth his money runs a more profitable scam for decades (with 200.000.-- before tax per year or more).
Greetings, Conrad
P.S.: Energizer Alkaline AA Battery gives you about 2.5 Ah at about 1.2 Volt average (1.6 Volt down to 1.0 Volt over time, 25 hours at 100 mA power draw)
Ordered Sept.1 2015 and delivered around Feb. 1 2016? 5 months wait time? Most people would have asked for their money back well before this. But congratulations, you received something after all.
If you have the right equipment (a phototransistor and an oscilloscope) you could at least tell if the LED is being pulsed, as by a JT circuit, without opening it or voiding your warranty.
I have found a hilarious video of a Russian guy who received his ELFE flashlight already at the end of November, and took it apart. All he found inside were 3 AA rechargeable batteries. No coils, no antennas, no electronics, just the LED. Additionally, the case is metallic, hence perfectly shielded against any EM field (including Schumann resonances).
The batteries have "2600" marked on them - if that is their capacity (2600 mAh at 1.3V), and need 14 days to recharge, then it needs the continuous power of only 8.4 microwatt (not milliwatt!!). That would be within the reach of known EM harvesting technology for a device of this size, but with the battery case being metallic and empty, there is no way it could work. Besides that, the Russian guy told it took 10 hours before the battery died. Unfortunately my Russian is not perfect, so I do not understand all in the video, but machine generated English subtitles, and Google translate of the comments make it clear that the battery did not recharge, and that the author (and all others) screams about scam. They also posted a link to a Russian website describing other scams of Viktor Uzlov, and I found more on the web too (all in Russian only, though).
Anyway I never understood what a $99 flashlight that needs 14 days to charge is good for. You can buy a small solar flashlight for $3 and it charges much quicker.
Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJP9iC0_qc8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO6YghleF-0
Links:
http://transnet-rus.livejournal.com/17350.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20151103115044/http://uzlovu.net/
http://marslanov.com/2014/09/10/audit-kompanii-adgex/
I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the Tsar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
And what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I think the Russian guy was face-to-face with the devil.
Speaking of deceptively simple circuits like the one in the screen cap from the Russian video, I have a pet name for what happens when the batteries start to get low.
I call it the "dance of death." In the "dance of death" configuration the LED can remain illuminated at a lower level for a very very long time. Perhaps somebody out there can venture to explain why that is.
Quote from: txt on February 06, 2016, 10:46:36 PM
I have found a hilarious video of a Russian guy who received his ELFE flashlight already at the end of November, and took it apart. All he found inside were 3 AA rechargeable batteries. No coils, no antennas, no electronics, just the LED. Additionally, the case is metallic, hence perfectly shielded against any EM field (including Schumann resonances).
The batteries have "2600" marked on them - if that is their capacity (2600 mAh at 1.3V), and need 14 days to recharge, then it needs the continuous power of only 8.4 microwatt (not milliwatt!!). That would be within the reach of known EM harvesting technology for a device of this size, but with the battery case being metallic and empty, there is no way it could work. Besides that, the Russian guy told it took 10 hours before the battery died. Unfortunately my Russian is not perfect, so I do not understand all in the video, but machine generated English subtitles, and Google translate of the comments make it clear that the battery did not recharge, and that the author (and all others) screams about scam. They also posted a link to a Russian website describing other scams of Viktor Uzlov, and I found more on the web too (all in Russian only, though).
Anyway I never understood what a $99 flashlight that needs 14 days to charge is good for. You can buy a small solar flashlight for $3 and it charges much quicker.
Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJP9iC0_qc8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJP9iC0_qc8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO6YghleF-0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO6YghleF-0)
Links:
http://transnet-rus.livejournal.com/17350.html (http://transnet-rus.livejournal.com/17350.html)
https://web.archive.org/web/20151103115044/http://uzlovu.net/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20151103115044/http://uzlovu.net/)
http://marslanov.com/2014/09/10/audit-kompanii-adgex/ (http://marslanov.com/2014/09/10/audit-kompanii-adgex/)
Very good find! I see one of the comments on the first video says something like now it has been proven to be a scam. The comment is in English so, maybe the commenter understands Russian too? Or, just sees that there is nothing inside to support their claims?
I do not think any apology is due to the manufacturer just yet.
Bill
Quote from: MileHigh on February 06, 2016, 11:31:50 PM
Speaking of deceptively simple circuits like the one in the screen cap from the Russian video, I have a pet name for what happens when the batteries start to get low.
I call it the "dance of death." In the "dance of death" configuration the LED can remain illuminated at a lower level for a very very long time. Perhaps somebody out there can venture to explain why that is.
I know why... and so do you. ;D
Three rechargable AAs in there and that's _all_??
OK, TheCell, take yours apart as soon as possible.
Don't even bother with testing for days/weeks. If there is something else in there besides just batteries, then you can put it back together for comprehensive testing. But if it just has the three batteries... well then, I think we can draw some definite conclusions from that. And the sooner you know, the sooner you can (try to) get your money back.
Yesterday it was switched on for 4 hours. After the first 2 hours the light slightly darkened , after the complete 4 hours you could only see the middle of the spot. At this morning , when switched on , the light has regained intensity with no doubt.
But I will test it , if this is true on the long run.
Next it will be drained completely and it will be tested , if it will be able to recover to whatever extend.
I have this thing lying on the table and will nail down facts that I observe, and eventually depending on results write some harsh comments, that Mr M. will have to focus on other 'business models' in future.
Anyway it is clear from the websites of ADGEX, and from the background information on the Russian websites, that the main target of the scam are the investors, not the small end-customers. ADGEX, like other free energy scammers, gets millions in investment, so they could not care less whether the'll rip off some small customers of $99. If they are not complete nuts, they will not make too big troubles if you ask the refund - they could face consequences that would not be worth of it, while in the meantime investors, seeing they have a "working" technology and sell products, will happily send them their money for their bigger "projects".
In fact, I am quite surprised that the flashlight does not work, because harvesting some 8 μW from the ambient EM field with existing technologies is nothing difficult or expensive. There are plenty of low-consumption sensors and simple devices that did it already many years ago. So in fact they could have made their scam much better - if they made flashlights harvesting a few μW (easily doable), everyone would confirm it works, nobody could scream scam, and the investments would pour in like crazy. The investors would be incapable realizing that a few μW from a device of the size of some 10 cm³ means that their kW range ELFE Accumulator for powering houses would have to be billion times bigger - 10^10 cm³ = 10^4 m³ - that's a cube with the side of over 20 m. That's if we calculate the volume. In reality, for harvesting EM energy, it would have to be flat and a few km large to harvest this amount of ambient energy, because understandingly a cube could harvest the EM energy only from its surface.
Otherwise, I saw an argument earlier in this thread whether it is possible to harvest energy from Schumann resonances (SR) - of course it is. It is done since decades in plenty of meteorologic devices that measure and localize lightning worldwide. If you can measure it, it means it generates some voltage and current in the measuring devices (and hence also energy). However, you need really very large loops of wire (coils), and even with those, you get just a few μA. Hence with a device of the size of the flashlight, even if there were some hidden unshielded coils, you could harvest a few nanowatts, but not more. Not because the technology would not allow it, but simply because the field is so weak, and SR does not offer more in this volume. The ambient EM field in standard wavelengths is much stronger - it allows harvesting up to units of μW per cm³ in densely populated urban environment.
Quote from: TheCell on February 07, 2016, 05:49:32 AM
Yesterday it was switched on for 4 hours. After the first 2 hours the light slightly darkened , after the complete 4 hours you could only see the middle of the spot. At this morning , when switched on , the light has regained intensity with no doubt.
But I will test it , if this is true on the long run.
Next it will be drained completely and it will be tested , if it will be able to recover to whatever extend.
I have this thing lying on the table and will nail down facts that I observe, and eventually depending on results write some harsh comments, that Mr M. will have to focus on other 'business models' in future.
@TheCell:
I think you read the "extended warranty" at
http://trade.adgex.com.au/Terms-Conditions/Standard-and-Extended-Warranty-Terms-and-Conditions
You have to ask yourself: what constitutes a failure of the flash light? And even if you can proove failure, ADGEX could send you a replacement flash light again and again for one year and then the warranty is over (see Point 6. in the extended warranty).
You have to allow for a reasonable handlig time, so, getting 6 replacements during the warranty year is feasable and you have to pay the shipping costs (at least for returning the faulty ones). And six flash lights probably cost them only 12.-- which leaves them on the winning side.
1) If the flash light does not regenerate after a 12 hour burn within 14 days, ADGEX could claim that you placed it somewhere wrong (no magnetic field, no electromanetic waves). So, I would not go along that route.
2) Three hour burns every day will probably be possible for many days if not months. How is your patience and for how many days do you want to play with that thing?
3) If you are lucky ADGEX gives you back the 99.-- just to be rid of you. If not, any legal action will cost more than 99.--
A possible way of action:
After you have established that the flash light does not shine three hours a day after let's say two months, you should open it up and take a few clear pictures. May be the North Sydney Chamber of Commerce http://www.northsydneychamber.com.au/contact/ is interested in hearing about a scam. They might be willing to contact ADGEX in order to apply some pressure to give you the money back.
You accuse the North Sydney chamber of commerce of not taking proper care when overseeing commerce in Sydney. You should save important parts of the ADGEX web site in order to have evidence in case they go off line.
You can also report a scam:
https://www.scamwatch.gov.au/report-a-scam (I think the type of scam is "other buying and selling scams")
There might be news papers in Sidney interested in "scandal stories".
In Austria there are very small local news papers which accept stories from the public (because they fill space and cost nothing). You could then send ADGEX a copy of that news paper story (even if it is an unimportant newspaper) in order to apply pressur on ADGEX. But be careful what you write because if ADGEX is clecer they sue you for accusing them wrongly. You write "according to my experience" or "I could not verify the claims made by ADGEX" or you ask the retorical question "Can a battery be recharged by the earth magnetic filed or by elctromagnetic smog? I could not see that effect in the flash light."
But I have the impression that the damned flash light will shine three houres a day for many months (disregarding brightness, which is hard to discuss legaly).
As I said, it is a clever scam (if you disregard honesty, which is nowadays in short supply).
Whatever you do, it willl be a lot of fuss with little reward. If you have time and if you are not poor, go ahead and beat them over the head. Some sort of Robin Hood quest. You will have a slightly bigger chance of going to heaven or you at least lower a bit your chances of going to hell. But it is better that you ask your local priest for heavenly advice. May be he wants a flash light? Sell it to him for 80.-- and accept your losses.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on February 07, 2016, 07:45:11 AMBut I have the impression that the damned flash light will shine three houres a day for many months (disregarding brightness, which is hard to discuss legaly).
The Russian guy measured the current of ~35mA in the second video, and 1.3V per cell in the first one. It gives the power consumption of ~0.14W. Assuming the AA cells have the capacity of 2600mAh, there is storage of ~10Wh. That would allow for 72 hours of operation at this intensity. And as the voltage and luminosity drop, the total life may be longer (perhaps in the range of ~100 hours - that's roughly 30 days with 3hrs/day). Of course the luminosity will be much less than 100 lm, but there are not too many users who could measure it reliably.
The voltage of some types of batteries drops under the load (hence the decrease of luminosity), but when turned off, the electrolyte chemically recovers, and the voltage raises during the rest - that explains that the flashlight starts lighting stronger after a few hours of rest. It can indeed take quite some time before you completely drain the batteries.
It's good to hear that someone at least received something.
I hope i will also receive my ELFE soon. I'm also in Germany.
@txt:
If it really has 120 lumen it would not be possible to operate it with only 0.14W.
Good LEDs have 100 lm/W (the best LED available has 300 lm/W) so with 0.14W it would only give about 14 lm.
Also the calculation with 8 µW can not be correct. 8 µW would give only 0.19 mWh per day.
With 0.14 W this would only allow for 4.8 sec operating time per day.
To operate with 0.14W for 3 hrs/day you would need (0.14W*3h)/21 = 20 mW to recharge it during the remaining 21 hrs.
If the LED needs 1W you would need 140 mW to recharge it in 21 hrs.
Quote from: TheCell on February 07, 2016, 05:49:32 AM
Yesterday it was switched on for 4 hours. After the first 2 hours the light slightly darkened , after the complete 4 hours you could only see the middle of the spot. At this morning , when switched on , the light has regained intensity with no doubt.
But I will test it , if this is true on the long run.
Next it will be drained completely and it will be tested , if it will be able to recover to whatever extend.
I have this thing lying on the table and will nail down facts that I observe, and eventually depending on results write some harsh comments, that Mr M. will have to focus on other 'business models' in future.
I'll be interested to hear the results of the long term discharge/recharge test.
According to the Adgex website, if you discharge the ELFE flashlight right down
low by leaving it turned on steady for 12 hours or more, it can take one to two weeks
to fully recharge again. If the ELFE can really fully recharge itself again as claimed
after about two weeks, that would be really something. Ordinary batteries may recover
a little bit, but they certainly won't fully recharge after two weeks after being run right down.
I realize this seems unlikely, but I think it wouldn't hurt to test this just so you can say to Adgex
if it doesn't recharge that you actually tested it by leaving it for two weeks to recharge.
If it does recharge as claimed, then maybe those are not ordinary batteries.
Adgex does have a video released about a year ago about some special 'porous nickel' ('nickel foam')
NiCad battery technology which they say they are developing. As slim of a chance as it may be,
I think it would be interesting to put the ELFE through a full two week recharge test after
duscharging it right down low to see what happens. If it doesn't recharge fully, then at least you
have actually put it to a real fair test.
Adgex Video showing a new NiCad battery technology they are claiming to be developing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc4drb0HknA
Quote from: txt on February 07, 2016, 08:46:52 AM
The Russian guy measured the current of ~35mA in the second video, and 1.3V per cell in the first one.
Edit:
Hi txt. In the first video he showed what appears to be a different current measurement.
In the second video, could he be measuring the current after the batteries have been
run down quite a bit? I have attached a screenshot of the current measurement from the first video,
although I am not so sure at all that we can trust his measurements using that meter. :)
I am not sure what 2600 and 2500 and the numbers mean It has 3 2500, 2 2600 and 1 2500 on the side of the 3 cylinders inside the torch. I could make a guess and say they are batteries and this refers to the battery number and the second number is mAh but thatwould be a guess. The fact they have different numbers is interesting as why would you number the batteries, who cares what order since it is in series and why different amperage?
As the Russians Crude circuit diagram shows and MH hinted at this is an open circuit so nothing external could be charging them unless an external induction charger was in the torch but I don't see one. It is pretty well shielded as well with a double tube construction so I don't see how the 3 numbered cylinders could scavenge for power either.
So that leaves us with the assumption these are nothing more than 3 rechargeable batteries that sit for a week and can then just barely manage to pump out enough voltage to light an LED for a couple of hours. We will see :-)
Have we hack sawed those batteries in half yet ...
Quote from: skywatcher on February 07, 2016, 10:40:37 AM
If it really has 120 lumen it would not be possible to operate it with only 0.14W.
Good LEDs have 100 lm/W (the best LED available has 300 lm/W) so with 0.14W it would only give about 14 lm.
Of course it is not 120 or 100 lm that it works at, except perhaps the first hour or couple of them. It is certainly much less then, though at low voltage the efficiency of LED is better than at maximal voltage, so at the current of 35mA, it can be perhaps some 30 lm even with a common LED.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 07, 2016, 10:40:37 AMAlso the calculation with 8 µW can not be correct. ...
Yes, you are perfectly right. I did a stupid calculation error - the charging would add 8.4 µWh each second, but that's irrelevant and nonsense, the charging would have to be 30mW (3*1.3V*2.6Ah => 10.14Wh / 14*24h = 30mW). Harvesting such amount of energy from the ambient EM field is already impossible, because it is simply not available unless you sit in an extremely close proximity of a strong broadcasting tower. That explains why ADGEX did not bother to put anything at all in the flashlight.
Quote from: Void on February 07, 2016, 11:11:55 AMHi txt. In the first video he showed what appears to be a different current measurement.
In the second video, could he be measuring the current after the batteries have been
run down quite a bit? I have attached a screenshot of the current measurement from the first video,
although I am not so sure at all that we can trust his measurements using that meter. :)
Yes, of course, I was speaking about the second video, where he measures the current with the multimeter. And yes, of course, the batteries were already used in that moment, so the current was lower than at the beginning. He used the analogue amperemeter just to check the digital reading.
@TheCell - any news? Did you already fully discharge the flashlight in a longer run, or do you still continue in short discharges of 3hrs/day?
If you do not want to disassemble it like the Russian did, you might consider visiting the closest security checkpoint (i.e. an airport), local med lab, or a dentist, and ask them for an X-ray snapshot of the lamp - you could see whether there is anything else than just the three AA batteries and an LED, and would have the chance to ask for the refund before the time runs out.
Quote from: txt on February 09, 2016, 10:32:13 AM
@TheCell - any news? Did you already fully discharge the flashlight in a longer run, or do you still continue in short discharges of 3hrs/day?
If you do not want to disassemble it like the Russian did, you might consider visiting the closest security checkpoint (i.e. an airport), local med lab, or a dentist, and ask them for an X-ray snapshot of the lamp - you could see whether there is anything else than just the three AA batteries and an LED, and would have the chance to ask for the refund before the time runs out.
I am not sure Xrays (or RF waves that you would harvest for power) can penetrate the two aluminum canisters let alone the 3 cylinders inside the torch. I know the assumption is these are 3 rechargeable AA nickle cadmium batteries but we could give the developers the benefit of the doubt, because at this stage the 3 Cylinders could contain anything, including crystals, magnets, batteries, maybe a charging circuit (Transistor / Cap and Diode) maybe some new age tech we have never seen before etc.
I still think the best course of action is find out if you were scammed, forget the money you paid, pull it apart and do a little forensic chemistry and post a you tube video if you were scammed so no one else is scammed. Alternatively you may find the secret of unlimited energy inside and without a patent you can build a huge version and buy a tesla motor car and drive it around for free.
Me too, I believe that the simplest way is disassembling it, but would understand that someone might hesitate. Common X-Ray scanner would work fine through the thin aluminium walls. X-ray is used also in better equipped car repair shops for inspections of engines, and there is a heck a lot of more metal in the way. RF would not work, of course, that's also why it is nonsense when they claim it harvests energy from Schumann resonannces.
Quote from: Nink on February 09, 2016, 12:26:05 PM
........... maybe some new age tech we have never seen before etc.
It must be "some new age tech". I believe it really is what will save mankind.
Quote from: Nink on February 09, 2016, 12:26:05 PM
....... you may find the secret of unlimited energy inside and without a patent you can build a huge version and buy a tesla motor car and drive it around for free.
I will do exactly that. I am pissed off by Teslamotors who falsely use Tesla's name and do not have a OU car. I will not buy a car from Teslamotors. I will turn my Mercedes into a OU car. Or may be I get one of the VW cars which have to be taken back by VW (because the exhaust is less clean than claimed by VW).
I ordered ten wonder flash lights, to guarantee to have enough power for a car.
Oh my god!
TheCell please tell us, is there some exhaust from the wonder flash light?Greetings, Conrad
During the Night the Flashlight-battery regains energy slightly , so it may be usefull for about 15 minutes , then going darker with an intensity curve similar to 1/x never going completely off.
And it seems, that cycle repeats every day.
Yesterday I ran the last daily test; the next test will be run on 22.Feb .
During that period the flashlight will never be turned on.
It should be possible to operate the flashlight for at least 1/2h with no loss in strength.
For a complete satisfying test it should not lose strength for at least 2h,
because this was the initial condition, when I first tested it.
I will report the results.
BTW, I started a thread about ADGEX / ELFE at Metabunk:
https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285 (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285)
If you find any mistakes, false claims there, or have anything else to add to the case, please do not hesitate to post it directly there, or here if you prefer.
Note - that thread contains only the argumentation concerning Schumann resonances and Earth's magnetic field. The more general topic of ambient energy harvesting was already discussed in another thread linked at the top of the opening post.
I wonder, why the Russian guy did get his one already in November and the German guys only by now...
Because Adgex stated that it takes longer to deliver these Flash lights..
Maybe it is not the original ADGEX ELFE Flashlight ?
Probably these flashlight with these cases could be also bought somewhere else...??!
Maybe this Russian guy bought his one not from ADGEX and thus it is a normal flashlight only ?
We really need confirmation from some other users, who have bought the flashlight, that there
are only 3 AA cells in there...
Also @TheCell is your flashlight also so easy to open
at the end or is it glued ?
That I wondered very much in the Russian videos..!!
His flashlight showed no wear and tear to get the endcap open...
So his one seemed to be not glued....
Hmm....
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 09, 2016, 04:54:54 PMHis flashlight showed no wear and tear to get the endcap open...
So his one seemed to be not glued....
My Russian is not perfect, but I understand some. The Russian clearly tells the cap was glued, and that he had to file it down a bit to open. Not only he tells it, but he shows it too - just have a look at the very beginning of the first video. And yes, they tell the flashlight came from ADGEX, and then discuss it in great details in the comments too (use Google Translate).
Why they got it first? Perhaps because Russians are the majority investors in ADGEX so far. ADGEX needed to persuade potential investors in Russia first that they have a "working" technology. You have to understand that ADGEX could not care less about the customers who buy the lamp, and about their $99. It is the millions of dollars of the big investors that they are seeking. And since the flashlight is just a demonstration of their "ELFE Technology", once investors see that ADGEX apparently has a "working" product on the market, they won't hesitate too much with their investments into the big projects of kW and MW ranged home and industrial ELFE Accumulators, and other bunk of ADGEX, such as their supertrains, etc.
Another reason why he chose Russian customers for the first deliveries is that Uzlov (ADGEX ceo) thought it may be safer testing there first - being Russian, having good connections there, being able to promote his business there easier and cheaper, having there a very huge market with a strong population of new-rich people who have plenty of money for throwing away, but low education or intelect, the lack of customer protection legislative, as well as high level of corruption - all these are important factors for choosing Russia as the testing ground. And if it went really bad, the chances that it leaks into the English-speaking part of the western Internet were slim. And indeed - if I was not curious enough when I started to investigate ADGEX, and did not start searching information through Russian search engines in Cyrillic, it is quite likely that it would take much longer before these videos and information leaked out.
Quote from: e2matrix on February 06, 2016, 01:48:19 PM
Yep I want to see apologies from all the naysayers that it would never be delivered :P Much thanks to TheCell for taking the risk in buying one of these.
I, on the 29th of October 2015, ordered two. One for me and one for a friend. Last I heard was that they should have been sent in the mail around end of January / should be in the mail around start of February 2016, but so far not much more has been said. I got the apology letter from Viktor Uzlov.. So, still waiting.
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 06, 2016, 05:49:35 PM
Ordered Sept.1 2015 and delivered around Feb. 1 2016? 5 months wait time? Most people would have asked for their money back well before this. But congratulations, you received something after all.
As you very well know, the ADGEX ELFE was a pre-order item. They did promise delivery before Christmas, stating that it'd be a great present. Well, it wasn't even a present for New Year's Eve.
Still waiting. Let's hope mine arrives (I live in Finland) way before March.
Quote from: TheCell on February 09, 2016, 12:46:08 PM
Yesterday I ran the last daily test; the next test will be run on 22.Feb .
During that period the flashlight will never be turned on.
Sounds good.
Quote from: e2matrix on September 01, 2015, 10:53:39 AM
First I don't know about spelling and grammar errors in trying to purchase but someone is apparently not reading that these will not be available until November 28th. :P
They weren't even available January 28th.
Quote from: TheCell on February 09, 2016, 12:46:08 PM
During the Night the Flashlight-battery regains energy slightly , so it may be usefull for about 15 minutes , then going darker with an intensity curve similar to 1/x never going completely off.
And it seems, that cycle repeats every day.
Yesterday I ran the last daily test; the next test will be run on 22.Feb .
During that period the flashlight will never be turned on.
It should be possible to operate the flashlight for at least 1/2h with no loss in strength.
For a complete satisfying test it should not lose strength for at least 2h,
because this was the initial condition, when I first tested it.
I will report the results.
Ah ha!
It appear obvious that you live in one of the dreaded "Dead Zones" otherwise, the light would work as promised. I guess this means no refund because they can't be held responsible for where you live...right?
If this is not a scam, it should be. With an out like that you could sell anything to anyone.
"Our car gets over 200 mpg...of course, your mileage will depend upon where you live...you might live in a dead zone."
Good luck to you and I appreciate you reporting your findings to us over here. If I had the money, I would have ordered one myself just to see.
Bill
The other "Lucy takes away the football again" angle to this is that I am going to hazard a guess that "Dead Zones" have not been defined by the vendor and I am not aware of anyone asking them to define it. I have to state that I am not following this one closely. I will just repeat that across the entire surface of the Earth, you can't extract energy from the Earth's magnetic field. It sort of reminds me of the B&L crew on EF talking about "where you are on the Earth's geomagnetic map" but they can't define "it" at all.
Quote from: MileHigh on February 09, 2016, 08:37:56 PMI will just repeat that across the entire surface of the Earth, you can't extract energy from the Earth's magnetic field.
You are, of course, right (in principle). But if you want to be really scientifically correct (which is no obligation), you have to tell that you
can extract energy from Earth's magnetic field as long as you keep moving through it. However, the gain in energy would be many orders of magnitude below the energy that you would need to expend for keeping to move. At least as long as you are not in a friction-less environment, such as the space. NASA, for example, attempted to perform so-called "tether experiment" where they wanted to harvest energy from a loop hanged from a satellite, but somehow they did a mistake, and the induced current burned off the tether. Still, even in such case, the extracted energy would slow you down, so you would need more energy to keep on the same orbit.
There is also the possibility to extract energy from Earth's field even if you do not move, because the Earth's magnetic field fluctuates. But the fluctuations are so small (in the order of 1 nT/s), that even with a rather huge equipment you would not gain any usable energy.
Schumann resonances are a bit different - resonances of very long wave EM radiation (mostly triggered by storms). Again, you
can harvest their energy. And since meteorologic devices use the detection of Schumann resonances for surveying and localizing lightnings, they do harvest their energy which is then measured by the equipment. Again, the energy is so low that it is barely measurable even with big loop antennas and very sensitive equipment. The magnetic amplitudes are in the order of pico teslas, hence several orders of magnitude below the fluctuations of the Earth magnetic field.
So the hope that a device of the size of a flashlight could harvest any interesting amount of energy from Earth's magnetic field or from Schumann resonances, is an utter nonsense.
A detailed analysis, with more precise numbers, and with references, can be found in this thread at Metabunk (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/)
The same goes also for the hope that such device could harvest acoustic/vibrational or EM energy (RF/WiFi/TV/...) in any interesting levels from the environment, is completely false too - typically, even in densely populated urban environment, there is simply not enough energy available for harvesting with a small device. This is also analyzed in details at Metabunk (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-steorns-orbo-free-energy-device-usb-charger.t7080/#post-172732), there are also references to scientific papers that studied the available levels of various types of ambient energy (acoustic, thermal, solar, EM) including levels of EM radiation in typical urban environments such as central London or Tokyo.
Quote from: MileHigh on February 09, 2016, 08:37:56 PM
The other "Lucy takes away the football again" angle to this is that I am going to hazard a guess that "Dead Zones" have not been defined by the vendor and I am not aware of anyone asking them to define it. I have to state that I am not following this one closely. I will just repeat that across the entire surface of the Earth, you can't extract energy from the Earth's magnetic field. It sort of reminds me of the B&L crew on EF talking about "where you are on the Earth's geomagnetic map" but they can't define "it" at all.
actually there WAS 3 AA batteries that were found by someone for the low low price of $100 USD.
it looks like the marketers turned out to have all the success they desire. which never amounted to very much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJP9iC0_qc8
thankyou to the person on overunity.com who posted that link earlier now copied above.
Quote from: SoManyWires on February 09, 2016, 09:30:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJP9iC0_qc8
thankyou to the person on overunity.com who posted that link earlier now copied above.
We are on overunity.com here :)
I found those videos when writing the Metabunk article about ADGEX (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-steorns-orbo-free-energy-device-usb-charger.t7080/#post-172732) and posted them in this very thread, just on the previous page.
Quote from: txt on February 09, 2016, 09:36:10 PM
We are on overunity.com here :)
I found those videos when writing the Metabunk article about ADGEX (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-steorns-orbo-free-energy-device-usb-charger.t7080/#post-172732) and posted them in this very thread, just on the previous page.
ah right, thanx.
wow that scam orbo has running sure appears to be too well paying for him to not have provided anything exactly transparent and proveable. wasting many peoples time and some peoples money.
these individuals are depressing to have to tolerate so easily because of a lack of anyone monitoring over them with meaningful authority.
and then theres the corruption thats hidden within the authorities themselves around the globe. so pathetic.
theyre all trying to feed from a donated cookie jar of fractional preauthorized reservations, as economies and the general quality of life for everyone else just tanks. and somehow that makes it just ok for lower levels of thieves such as the qeg and just about every other like them that have or had similar intention$.
the planet seems near dangerous now.
anyone honest is going to need a spaceship just to find a less corrupted planet!
Today i got an email from Mr. Muzanov telling me that my ELFE has been dispatched, incl. tracking number. :)
Apparently it's shipped directly from China.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 11, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Today i got an email from Mr. Muzanov telling me that my ELFE has been dispatched, incl. tracking number. :)
Apparently it's shipped directly from China.
China? Hmmm ... might or might not be a bad sign. I'd like to know the return address if it has one. Being a flashlight collector I know a lot of the manufacturers. I hope at this point either TheCell or you can take your light apart at some time after testing and confirm what the Russian video showed. But then I think someone needs to peel off the battery cover to make sure there is not something special in there. Maybe each cell has it's own coil or some other method of recharging. Maybe leave a cell out next to a Wifi routher or some other EMF source and monitor it and put a load on it for a while then check it repeatedly. It might be possible that there is even some special chemistry in the batteries that keeps them coming back.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 11, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Today i got an email from Mr. Muzanov telling me that my ELFE has been dispatched, incl. tracking number. :)
Apparently it's shipped directly from China.
Cool someone else spent $99 on a disposable flashlight you can't even charge or change the batteries on. FYI my local dollar store sells disposable flash light for $1 so you could buy 99 of them for that price.
Almost everything is manufactured in China, and it would make no sense to send it to Australia first and then to Europe.
So i think it's neither a bad nor a good sign.
Quote from: Nink on February 11, 2016, 02:05:28 PM
Cool someone else spent $99 on a disposable flashlight you can't even charge or change the batteries on. FYI my local dollar store sells disposable flash light for $1 so you could buy 99 of them for that price.
Better than throwing out 1200 Euros for a Steorn Orbo Cube. ;)
Quote from: skywatcher on February 11, 2016, 02:11:35 PM
Better than throwing out 1200 Euros for a Steorn Orbo Cube. ;)
Yeah to be honest if I saw it I probably would have purchased one out of curiosity and then quickly pulled it apart. When I was 10 my father brought home a Siemens solar powered flash light (40 years ago). The company he worked for was a customer of Siemens and they gave it to him for for free. It was a breakthrough in technology at the time. Within 20 minutes I had it in pieces :-)
Quote from: skywatcher on February 11, 2016, 02:06:24 PM
Almost everything is manufactured in China, and it would make no sense to send it to Australia first and then to Europe.
So i think it's neither a bad nor a good sign.
The "bad sign" angle is one that I have made reference to before. If you can make a large enough order and are willing to also pay for any extra labour and customization costs, then a Chinese factory where they make "Dollar Store" electronics items would be willing to cut a deal with you.
So, something like this: Take a standard LED flashlight and add some glue during final assembly so the average consumer can't open it up easily. Deboss the end of the aluminum handle with your company name. Put it in a box that has your company artwork on it. Insert your company user manual.
There is a certain minimum number of units that would be required for this to happen. Then, after that presumably the finished and boxed product could be shipped to a local Chinese distribution company that will ship out onsies for you to your end users for a small fee.
Quote from: MileHigh on February 11, 2016, 04:11:16 PM
The "bad sign" angle is one that I have made reference to before. If you can make a large enough order and are willing to also pay for any extra labour and customization costs, then a Chinese factory where they make "Dollar Store" electronics items would be willing to cut a deal with you.
So, something like this: Take a standard LED flashlight and add some glue during final assembly so the average consumer can't open it up easily. Deboss the end of the aluminum handle with your company name. Put it in a box that has your company artwork on it. Insert your company user manual.
There is a certain minimum number of units that would be required for this to happen. Then, after that presumably the finished and boxed product could be shipped to a local Chinese distribution company that will ship out onsies for you to your end users for a small fee.
yes i'd go with that description.
an example would be to read many listings on alibaba.com and others that have their minimum order requirements in alot of those cases.
and they are sometimes advertising that they can and will easily do custom versions of the product(s).
Quote from: skywatcher on February 11, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Today i got an email from Mr. Muzanov telling me that my ELFE has been dispatched, incl. tracking number. :)
Apparently it's shipped directly from China.
Hi skywatcher. I, too, got an email from Mr. Muzanov telling me that my ELFE has been dispatched, and he, too, included a tracking number.
The tracking number said that it's being shipped from China, just like yours.
My package has already arrived in Madrid, Spain, and I'm hoping that tomorrow it will arrive in Helsinki, Finland.
Also, regards that video that people have been showing for a while (the one from November 26th, stating that the flashlight is just a bunch of batteries = therefore a scam), he had this to say:
Quotethis is video of one of the first user of ELFE, who decided to saw up his ELFE in order to find a power module, converting Earth's energy into electric. So you can see him disassembling his ELFE but he is not suceeded in finding the module, and eventually he says that there is nothing special in ELFE. Well, he is right. There is nothing special - just knowledge of our technical team, adopted in ELFE. In spite the fact, that he didn't find any module, our ELFEs keep on charging from the environment.
My tracking info looks like this:
@esaruoho and skywatcher
Quote from: esaruoho on February 11, 2016, 04:30:03 PM
......................
Also, regards that video that people have been showing for a while (the one from November 26th, stating that the flashlight is just a bunch of batteries = therefore a scam), he had this to say:
Quote
this is video of one of the first user of ELFE, who decided to saw up his ELFE in order to find a power module, converting Earth's energy into electric. So you can see him disassembling his ELFE but he is not suceeded in finding the module, and eventually he says that there is nothing special in ELFE. Well, he is right. There is nothing special - just knowledge of our technical team, adopted in ELFE. In spite the fact, that he didn't find any module, our ELFEs keep on charging from the environment.
I am impressed, this response E-Mail is a very good proof that this is a most brazen scam. He is lying to your face (if he would be next to you).
I hope you will take apart your new miracle flash light pretty soon. Of course you will not find the "module", but that is exactly what you have to show.
Eventually one has to take the three batteries apart as well. (Wear gloves and goggles!) For a crude comparison one could take apart an ordinary alkaline battery.
May be it is nano-technology? But the scam is not that elaborate. He does not even try to tell a credible story. Just a stupid lie.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: conradelektro on February 11, 2016, 06:29:18 PM
@esaruoho and skywatcher
I am impressed, this response E-Mail is a very good proof that this is a most brazen scam. He is lying to your face (if he would be next to you).
I hope you will take apart your new miracle flash light pretty soon. Of course you will not find the "module", but that is exactly what you have to show.
Eventually one has to take the three batteries apart as well. (Wear gloves and goggles!) For a crude comparison one could take apart an ordinary alkaline battery.
May be it is nano-technology? But the scam is not that elaborate. He does not even try to tell a credible story. Just a stupid lie.
Greetings, Conrad
Conrad:
But what if those energy modules are invisible? That would easily explain why the Russian video guy missed them. That would also be a great way to protect a very high tech invention...just make the modules invisible.
Brilliant!
Of course, even the invisible modules will not work everywhere...there are still those dreaded 'Dead Zones" to deal with.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 11, 2016, 07:51:53 PMBut what if those energy modules are invisible?
Of course, the are invisible. And not only the modules are invisible, also the light that the flashlight emits is invisible - that's why it looks like it does not light at all after a few hours. In fact it just means that the Schumann resonances harvesting works better and better, and the light is more and more invisible!
Quote from: txt on February 11, 2016, 09:11:30 PM
Of course, the are invisible. And not only the modules are invisible, also the light that the flashlight emits is invisible - that's why it looks like it does not light at all after a few hours. In fact it just means that the Schumann resonances harvesting works better and better, and the light is more and more invisible!
Wow! I had not considered that. So, once fully charged, there is so much power in the modules that they emit light in a frequency not visible with the human eye, like infrared.
Good catch, I didn't remember reading that in the brochure.
What I really want to know is, if I stand on the edge of a "Dead Zone" and shine the light into the zone, can anyone in the dead zone see the light? If the light is fully charged and I walk into a dead zone, does it spontaneously discharge? If so...where does that energy go?
I am very concerned. I mean, what if someone accidentally causes a rift in the space-time continuum with one of these things? What if there is a time shift and it takes me back to a week before my flashlight arrived in the mail? The warranty would not apply because, technically, I had not received my light yet.
Damn, this is confusing.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 11, 2016, 09:22:10 PMWhat I really want to know is, if I stand on the edge of a "Dead Zone" and shine the light into the zone, can anyone in the dead zone see the light?
No, they are all dead.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 11, 2016, 05:40:57 PM
My tracking info looks like this:
Mine looks the exact same. I'll take a screenshot when it says something else.
Update:
| 12/02/2016 | 11:14 | (Germany) Arrival at border point of destination country |
|
| 12/02/2016 | 11:14 | (Germany) Handed to customs |
Let's hope they don't want additional money... ::)
Quote from: skywatcher on February 12, 2016, 12:38:51 PM
Update:
| 12/02/2016 | 11:14 | (Germany) Arrival at border point of destination country |
|
| 12/02/2016 | 11:14 | (Germany) Handed to customs |
Let's hope they don't want additional money... ::)
oh what a difference does an arrival an hour earlier in Spain make. mine is still listed as being in spain..
i guess it'll have to be next week then :)
Quote from: skywatcher on February 12, 2016, 12:38:51 PM
Update:
| 12/02/2016 | 11:14 | (Germany) Arrival at border point of destination country |
|
| 12/02/2016 | 11:14 | (Germany) Handed to customs |
Let's hope they don't want additional money... ::)
yours seems to travel back in time!.. shipment is received 12.08, but departure from border point of origin country 11.15. :)
skywalker:[/color]
09.02.2016 12.51 electronic notification received[/color]
10.02.2016 12.08 shipment received in madrid[/color]
10.02.2016 11.14 (spain) mailed[/color]
10.02.2016 11.14 (spain) arrival at border point of origin country[/color]
10.02.2016 11.15 (spain) departure from border point of origin country[/color]
12.02.2016 11.14 (germany) arrival at border point of destination country[/color]
12.02.2016 11.14 (germany) handed to customs[/color]
[/color]
esaruoho:[/color]
09.02.2016 12.51 electronic notification received[/color]
10.02.2016 12.08 shipment received in madrid[/color]
10.02.2016 12.33 (spain) mailed[/color]
10.02.2016 12.33 (spain) arrival at border point of origin country[/color]
10.02.2016 12.34 (spain) departure from border point of origin country[/color]
mine is still stuck in spain..
Quote from: esaruoho on February 12, 2016, 02:53:56 PM
mine is still stuck in spain..
I guess they didn't find Finland on the map and returned to Spain. :P
Quote from: esaruoho on February 12, 2016, 02:53:56 PM
yours seems to travel back in time!.. shipment is received 12.08, but departure from border point of origin country 11.15. :)
mine is still stuck in spain..
See? I knew it! Someone turned it on and it caused a rift in the space-time continuum. What if this continues and they try to deliver the flashlight before you were even born?
This could get ugly.
Bill
Today something came per registered mail, but i was not at home. :(
Quote from: skywatcher on February 13, 2016, 12:28:38 PM
Today something came per registered mail, but i was not at home. :(
someone has all the goodies.
1- fast delivery from madrid
2- postal delivery on saturdays..
aren'tcha lucky :)
I built an ELFE after 20 years of Research and development and thousands of hours of construction I built an ELFE. Yes it may look like 3 AA batteries and an LED stuck together in < 1 minute but there is super secret invisible tech in here that will allow it to self recharge.
Quote from: Nink on February 13, 2016, 04:43:41 PM
I built an ELFE after 20 years of Research and development and thousands of hours of construction I built an ELFE. Yes it may look like 3 AA batteries and an LED stuck together in < 1 minute but there is super secret invisible tech in here that will allow it to self recharge.
Excellent :D So how many "recharges" are you now at?
@ Nink
That stealth technology is amazing. I could not see anything housing it. This is really ahead of all other technology.
Kind Regards
PS I have one running in a normal flashlight, does bounce nicely
I have found a new video, just published on YouTube a few hours ago. This time it is one of the many ADGEX directors disassembling the flashlight, showing virtually the same as the Russian customer did in the previously published video. (As far as I understood, they have over 20 directors, but I did not find names of any employees, so perhaps everyone at ADGEX has a director chair assured).
Since it is again in Russian, I explain it closer in a post at Metabunk here:
https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-175902
Quote from: txt on February 14, 2016, 03:40:17 PM
I have found a new video, just published on YouTube a few hours ago. This time it is one of the many ADGEX directors disassembling the flashlight, showing virtually the same as the Russian customer did in the previously published video. (As far as I understood, they have over 20 directors, but I did not find names of any employees, so perhaps everyone at ADGEX has a director chair assured).
Since it is again in Russian, I explain it closer in a post at Metabunk here:
https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-175902 (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-175902)
Excellent! I have no idea why they would make a video like this? At least they could have put a "black box" inside to keep us guessing. So now we know that Russian guy's video was accurate. Interesting that there was no glue on this guys light shown here, ha ha.
Bill
Here's a shot from the video, with ADGEX innards showing. Can anyone identify the lot of them?
(image from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HfAKX7TwiE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HfAKX7TwiE))
Quote from: txt on February 14, 2016, 03:40:17 PM
I have found a new video, just published on YouTube a few hours ago. This time it is one of the many ADGEX directors disassembling the flashlight, showing virtually the same as the Russian customer did in the previously published video. (As far as I understood, they have over 20 directors, but I did not find names of any employees, so perhaps everyone at ADGEX has a director chair assured).
Since it is again in Russian, I explain it closer in a post at Metabunk here:
https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-175902 (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-175902)
It is a fair deal, one pays 100.-- and gets a flash-light and a story.
The story is hilarious and the flash-light is crappy. So, let's say you paid 1.-- for the flash-light and 99.-- for the story.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: esaruoho on February 14, 2016, 05:29:03 PM
Here's a shot from the video, with ADGEX innards showing. Can anyone identify the lot of them?
(image from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HfAKX7TwiE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HfAKX7TwiE))
Well, I can identify this major component. It is very hard to see and, you need special glasses to be able to see it but, trust me, it is there.
Bill
Quote from: esaruoho on February 14, 2016, 05:29:03 PMHere's a shot from the video, with ADGEX innards showing. Can anyone identify the lot of them?
I'd tell everybody indeed can. It contains everything I would expect a cheap flashlight should contain - the body, the reflector, the battery holder, the button switch, the LED holder, the batteries, and couple of rings to hold it all together.
The miraculous part, according to Mr. Ivchenko, is the body of the flashlight working as a resonator. If you believe him, the picowatts of Schumann resonances (low frequencies beginning at 3Hz) and nanowatts or microwatts of other EM radiation, are somehow "amplified" by the resonance of the alu tube to hundreds of miliwatts. First of all, I did not know resonators can generate energy - from a tiny, barely detectable amounts of energy, they create 10 orders of magnitude higher levels! That alone is worth of many Nobel Prizes, because it would mean we do not need any strong power plants, or thick high tension power lines. We can simply distribute just milliwats of electricity, put an ELFE resonator (a simple aluminium tube) into every house, and it will amplify those milliwatts to many kilowatts. How simple! I wonder why nobody had the idea before now.
The other Nobel Prize should be awarded for the extreme-wideband resonator that works for frequencies from at least 3Hz to 5GHz (wavelenght from thousands of km to cm). It must be the magic shape of the flashlight. I hope that they patented the shape too.
[/sarcasm]
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2016, 05:57:43 PM
Well, I can identify this major component. It is very hard to see and, you need special glasses to be able to see it but, trust me, it is there.
Bill
("The Emperor's New Clothes") (1934), «Krasnaya Shapochka» ("Little Red Riding Hood") (1936), «Zolushka» ("Cinderella") (1938),
https://www.buffalolib.org/vufind/Record/1731687
Today i picked up my ELFE at the post office. :)
It looks very nice... but the switch might need some improvements, the first time i switched it on it only flashed for a very short time. After some gentle shaking it worked normally.
The light is quite intensive. I can even feel some heat on the skin when i put my hand some cm in front of the LED. So the 3W mentioned in the spec might be realistic.
Now i will start testing. I will make a setup with a tube where i can attach the lamp on one side and a digital luxmeter on the other side. Then i will take some readings every 10 min or so until the light intensity drops to 50% of the initial value. After some recharge time i will repeat the same procedure, until the batteries are completely empty or until it's clear that the amount of energy drawn from the batteries is significantly higher than what could be expected from normal AA size accus.
I have noticed that it's possible to unscrew the front ring of the lamp. But i have not opened it yet. First i will do my tests...
Quote from: txt on February 13, 2016, 04:47:37 PM
Excellent :D So how many "recharges" are you now at?
I have used it for 3 hours at a time dischagarging and letting it recharge 100 times in the past 24 hours. I also tested the life of 20 years in the past 24 hours. I did this using the time travel technique built into ELFE
Quote from: markdansie on February 13, 2016, 08:00:42 PM
@ Nink
That stealth technology is amazing. I could not see anything housing it. This is really ahead of all other technology.
Kind Regards
PS I have one running in a normal flashlight, does bounce nicely
The secret patent pending solution that allows it to work without a case is the magnetic resonating flux converters strategically placed between the power discharge recharging modules. Yes it may just look like 3 magnets sticking 3 batteries together but this is an enhancement over the original ELFE design.
@skywatcher - sounds fair; so far the best protocol and equipment I saw. All other tests (except the Russian videos) were base only on subjective observations. If possible, please post some intermittent results so that we see how the luminosity curve unravels with time. What did your luxmeter show at the first try?
Quote from: Nink on February 15, 2016, 12:17:46 PMThe secret patent pending solution that allows it to work without a case is the magnetic resonating flux converters strategically placed between the power discharge recharging modules. Yes it may just look like 3 magnets sticking 3 batteries together but this is an enhancement over the original ELFE design.
Yes, of course, magnets! No free energy device should miss them. Frankly told I was disappointed that no magnets were found in the ELFE flashlight, because in one of the promotional videos by ADGEX, they claimed they "sucked" the energy from Schumann resonances by "special" ferromagnetic antennas. Well, they finally used a stealth technology instead of it. Or perhaps they harvest the energy remotely and then distribute to their flashlights on demand.
Quote from: txt on February 14, 2016, 06:00:31 PM
The miraculous part, according to Mr. Ivchenko, is the body of the flashlight working as a resonator. If you believe him, the picowatts of Schumann resonances (low frequencies beginning at 3Hz) and nanowatts or microwatts of other EM radiation, are somehow "amplified" by the resonance of the alu tube to hundreds of miliwatts. First of all, I did not know resonators can generate energy - from a tiny, barely detectable amounts of energy, they create 10 orders of magnitude higher levels! That alone is worth of many Nobel Prizes, because it would mean we do not need any strong power plants, or thick high tension power lines. We can simply distribute just milliwats of electricity, put an ELFE resonator (a simple aluminium tube) into every house, and it will amplify those milliwatts to many kilowatts. How simple! I wonder why nobody had the idea before now.
Curious how it recharges from the case when they are using a single pole single throw switch that when turned off disconnects the housing (sorry energy harvesting antenna) from the batteries. We do not have a circuit when the switch is turned off and how does it charge when the batteries are no longer connected to the external case antenna ?
I was going to ask but they disabled comments on all the videos.
Quote from: Nink on February 15, 2016, 01:00:25 PMCurious how it recharges from the case when they are using a single pole single throw switch that when turned off disconnects the housing (sorry energy harvesting antenna) from the batteries. We do not have a circuit when the switch is turned off and how does it charge when the batteries are no longer connected to the external case antenna ?
That's easier than you may think. They use quantic effects, and push the electrons with their 3D-printed nano-injectors to the batteries through the LED to just a single end. Armies of tiny Maxwell daemons assure that the electrons stay inside the batteries.
BTW, I just read another theory about the harvesting of Schumann resonances, and I am afraid the guy meant it seriously. He claims that the flashlight sends out Schumann frequencies that then resonate around the globe, harvesting energy on the way, and coming back to the flashlight. It is the same guy who claims he
measured that the batteries are charging when inside the flashlight, while he could not detect any voltage increase when he has let the batteries out. Presenting Rasa Viharii: https://www.facebook.com/rasaviharii/posts/10156467630820788?fref=nf
Quote from: txt on February 15, 2016, 12:21:38 PM
@skywatcher - sounds fair; so far the best protocol and equipment I saw. All other tests (except the Russian videos) were base only on subjective observations. If possible, please post some intermittent results so that we see how the luminosity curve unravels with time. What did your luxmeter show at the first try?
I did not start my tests yet because today i didn't have time to put together the test setup.
When i put the luxmeter into the light beam at 1 m distance i get a reading of about 8500 Lux.
The light beam is quite narrow, and very bright at the centre.
The only negative point is the contact between the power cells and the switch. When i move the lamp sometimes it goes off. :(
Quote from: txt on February 15, 2016, 01:34:36 PM
That's easier than you may think. They use quantic effects, and push the electrons with their 3D-printed nano-injectors to the batteries through the LED to just a single end. Armies of tiny Maxwell daemons assure that the electrons stay inside the batteries.
OK I didn't realize they were using Bi directional Light Emitting Diodes. Now I understand.
Quote from: txt on February 15, 2016, 01:34:36 PM
BTW, I just read another theory about the harvesting of Schumann resonances, and I am afraid the guy meant it seriously. He claims that the flashlight sends out Schumann frequencies that then resonate around the globe, harvesting energy on the way, and coming back to the flashlight. It is the same guy who claims he measured that the batteries are charging when inside the flashlight, while he could not detect any voltage increase when he has let the batteries out. Presenting Rasa Viharii: https://www.facebook.com/rasaviharii/posts/10156467630820788?fref=nf
The 1000+ turns you need on a tesla coil to even measure the Schumann Resonance has now been completely replaced by an aluminum case and increased from ~100mv to > 4.5v as it can charge the batteries. I don't see a charging circuit like a capacitor and transistor anywhere in this torch so they must be collecting > 4.5v with their invisible antenna.
Quote from: Nink on February 15, 2016, 01:00:25 PM
Curious how it recharges from the case when they are using a single pole single throw switch that when turned off disconnects the housing (sorry energy harvesting antenna) from the batteries. We do not have a circuit when the switch is turned off and how does it charge when the batteries are no longer connected to the external case antenna ?
I was going to ask but they disabled comments on all the videos.
We simply don't know if it works, and how it works.
Arthur C. Clarke said that advanced technology will look like magic. ;)
You don't necessarily need an electrical connection to a structure working as an antenna.
If you have a satellite dish, the dish is not connected electrically to the receiver, but it concentrates the EM waves.
And if something looks like an accumulator, it does not have to be one.
Maybe it has some 'secret sauce' which behaves completely different.
We don't know. But we are here to find it out. :)
I am willing to bet that there are genetically engineered bacteria inside the "batteries" that soak up EM waves. The bacteria also have nano tin foil hats on their heads with nano antennae. They also soak up the "rain" of the virtual photon flux. There is enough "rain" in a cubic centimeter of empty space to power an LED for 10,000 years.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 15, 2016, 05:08:07 PMYou don't necessarily need an electrical connection to a structure working as an antenna.
I have yet to see an antenna without a cable. So the antenna that harvests the energy then re-emitts the energy wirelessly to the batteries, and each of them has its own antenna to receive the energy? I wonder why would anyone do that, when it would be sufficient having the main antenna connected to the battery directly (immense difference of cost, complexity, and efficiency).
I have nothing against carefully testing the flashlight and showing the hard evidence of its failure, but losing the last bit of critical thinking just to keep the hope is not necessary. If you search excuses, pull out at least something credible.
Quote from: txt on February 15, 2016, 05:41:37 PM
I have nothing against carefully testing the flashlight and showing the hard evidence of its failure, but losing the last bit of critical thinking just to keep the hope is not necessary. If you search excuses, pull out at least something credible.
I'm not searching excuses. But at the moment we don't have many facts, so we can only speculate... and of course we have to do some tests.
From all i know at the moment, i would also say that the chance for 'real free energy' (= 'exotic technology') in this product is < 1%.
Quote from: txt on February 15, 2016, 05:41:37 PM
I have yet to see an antenna without a cable. So the antenna that harvests the energy then re-emitts the energy wirelessly to the batteries, and each of them has its own antenna to receive the energy? I wonder why would anyone do that, when it would be sufficient having the main antenna connected to the battery directly (immense difference of cost, complexity, and efficiency).
I have nothing against carefully testing the flashlight and showing the hard evidence of its failure, but losing the last bit of critical thinking just to keep the hope is not necessary. If you search excuses, pull out at least something credible.
Skywatcher is right. CCrane company makes an am antenna that is passive, you just set it near your radio and tune the antenna. They work well. I have a passive am antenna made by Grundig that I use and it works the same way. It works very well too. No cables, no wires.
I am looking forward to seeing Skywatcher's results although I am convinced 99% that this is a scam.
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 15, 2016, 07:50:24 PM
Skywatcher is right. CCrane company makes an am antenna that is passive, you just set it near your radio and tune the antenna. They work well. I have a passive am antenna made by Grundig that I use and it works the same way. It works very well too. No cables, no wires.
That's not an antenna, that's a reflector. You still have to have an antenna inside the radio.
Quote from: txt on February 15, 2016, 08:10:35 PM
That's not an antenna, that's a reflector. You still have to have an antenna inside the radio.
I am pretty sure that what Bill is referring to is actually an LC resonator. The clue is the tuning dial. That connects to a variable capacitor and there is a big coil. You put that next to your radio and get it to resonate at the carrier frequency of the radio station you are trying to tune in and voila, better reception.
I saw one once when I was a kid and never saw one after that.
Quote from: txt on February 15, 2016, 08:10:35 PM
That's not an antenna, that's a reflector. You still have to have an antenna inside the radio.
True.
Bill
Quote from: MileHigh on February 15, 2016, 09:07:47 PM
I am pretty sure that what Bill is referring to is actually an LC resonator. The clue is the tuning dial. That connects to a variable capacitor and there is a big coil. You put that next to your radio and get it to resonate at the carrier frequency of the radio station you are trying to tune in and voila, better reception.
I saw one once when I was a kid and never saw one after that.
I just looked it up again and it is called a passive antenna, or a loop antenna but, you are correct that it has an air cap to tune with. It really works very well but, TXT was right in that your radio needs an internal antenna already wired in.
Bill
Okay, this guy is doing good tests with his ELFE and just posted a speedup timelaps video of it letting it run down
for a few hours until it is dead, but he also got a recharging effect...when he switched it off for some time...
So let´s see, what his future results will be:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBkoGW_U9-UvthQEURCgEBw/videos
Regards, Stefan.
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 15, 2016, 09:57:44 PM
Okay, this guy is doing good tests with his ELFE and just posted a speedup timelaps video of it letting it run down
for a few hours until it is dead, but he also got a recharging effect...when he switched it off for some time...
So let´s see, what his future results will be:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBkoGW_U9-UvthQEURCgEBw/videos
Regards, Stefan.
Great find thanks. I love the Microwave Faraday cage approach for his testing. Shame he did not have 2 flash lights.
Quote from: hartiberlin on February 15, 2016, 09:57:44 PM
Okay, this guy is doing good tests with his ELFE and just posted a speedup timelaps video of it letting it run down
for a few hours until it is dead, but he also got a recharging effect...when he switched it off for some time...
So let´s see, what his future results will be:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBkoGW_U9-UvthQEURCgEBw/videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBkoGW_U9-UvthQEURCgEBw/videos)
Regards, Stefan.
I did some tests yesterday and also got the recharging effect many times lol. I used 3aa NIMH batteries and on a separate test a 18650 lithium ion battery.
No magic here will video
Mark
Quote from: MileHigh on February 15, 2016, 09:07:47 PMI am pretty sure that what Bill is referring to is actually an LC resonator. The clue is the tuning dial. That connects to a variable capacitor and there is a big coil. You put that next to your radio and get it to resonate at the carrier frequency of the radio station you are trying to tune in and voila, better reception.
As you tell a resonator consists of a coil and a capacitor (and the wires to connect them), it cannot be a simple aluminium tube. There is no loop and no capacitor in the enclosed tube. And you still
do need an antenna in the device. The enclosed aluminium tube is not a resonator, it is a shielding (its efficiency depends on the frequency, but it definitely does not help getting the signal inside).
Quote from: skywatcher on February 15, 2016, 05:01:46 PMWhen i put the luxmeter into the light beam at 1 m distance i get a reading of about 8500 Lux.
Skywatcher, could you measure the diameter of the light cone at this distance? Is there any background illumination in the room (variable or constant)?
Quote from: txt on February 16, 2016, 12:26:38 PM
Skywatcher, could you measure the diameter of the light cone at this distance? Is there any background illumination in the room (variable or constant)?
At the moment it's not possible because i have already started my tests.
From my memory i would estimate it had about 10 cm diameter. It's quite narrow.
About my test setup:
I'm using this luxmeter: https://www.conrad.de/de/voltcraft-bl-10-l-lux-meter-beleuchtungsmessgeraet-helligkeitsmesser-0-40000-lx-kalibriert-nach-werksstandard-123206.html
I have attached it with tape directly on the front window of the ELFE, between the window and the meter i had to put 2 sheets of white plastic because otherwise the meter would be overloaded (> 40 kLux).
With the additional attenuation, i got an initial value of 26000 Lux, after some minutes it climbed up to 29000 Lux, i think this may be due to increasing temperature of the LED.
After 1 hour it's still 28700 Lux (resolution of the meter is 3.5 digits, so it's 100 Lux at these high light levels).
I'm taking readings every 10 min and i will post the results here on the forum after each testrun.
1st testrun:
16.02.16 | 18:30:00 | 26000 |
| 18:40:00 | 28800 |
| 18:50:00 | 28700 |
| 19:00:00 | 29000 |
| 19:10:00 | 28900 |
| 19:20:00 | 28800 |
| 19:30:00 | 28700 |
| 19:40:00 | 28600 |
| 19:50:00 | 28200 |
| 20:00:00 | 27500 |
| 20:10:00 | 26200 |
| 20:20:00 | 24200 |
| 20:30:00 | 20000 |
| 20:40:00 | 11400
|
At 20:40 i switched it off because light intensity was falling rapidly.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 16, 2016, 02:43:43 PMAt 20:40 i switched it off because light intensity was falling rapidly.
That's was surprisingly short, assuming it was "charging" all the time since the assembly, during the shipping, till you made your setup and started to test.
Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: txt on February 16, 2016, 03:05:05 PM
That's was surprisingly short, assuming it was "charging" all the time since the assembly, during the shipping, till you made your setup and started to test.
Thanks for sharing!
I had it on for max. 10 min before testing... so we might add this time.
If we assume the initial power consumption to be 3W the total amount of energy would be 5...6 Wh, which i would say would be a realistic value for 3 pieces of average quality AA-sized accus.
The interesting thing now is: will it recharge ? Normal accus don't recharge, at least not to their full initial capacity.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 16, 2016, 03:22:25 PM
The interesting thing now is: will it recharge ? Normal accus don't recharge, at least not to their full initial capacity.
If I take the promises of the "inventors" for granted, I have to say that you should not have switched it on longer than 3 hours. They guarantee only 3 hours of light for one day of self charging.
And then they maintain that you have to let it self charge for up to 14 days if you left it on for 12 hours straight.
One could claim, that a 4 hour run needs more than one day of self charging, because it exceeds the 3 hours recommended per day.
My point: the testers should first try several times the 3 hours of light per day. And later they should go for a long run, which would need many days of self charging.
Not that I believe what the "inventors" say, but the test should take their specifications seriously. Otherwise the "inventors" have a good argument, that the tester violated the specification.
My proposed test procedure:
- after receiving the wonder flash light, let's say we start the test a 19:00: let it shine for three hours (till 22:00)
- at 19:00 the next day: let it shine for three hours (till 22:00)
- at 19:00 the next day: let it shine for three hours (till 22:00)
- do that for let's say 7 days
- then let it shine from 19:00 till 07:00 (a 12 hour run)
- try a few seconds of light after 7 days, see if it has recovered, if it has, repeat a few days with a three hour run
- if it has not recovered after 14 days, well, the test is over, or if it has recovered, repeat a few days with a three hour run
So, it might take at least three weeks to prove the "inventors" wrong playing their game. Of course, if the 3 hour runs are not possible for 7 days, the test is over sooner. It would be pointless to do a 12 hour run if it can not do 3 hours per day.
May be what I say sounds complicated, but one should take the specification seriously, otherwise the test is not valid.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: skywatcher on February 16, 2016, 03:22:25 PMIf we assume the initial power consumption to be 3W the total amount of energy would be 5...6 Wh, which i would say would be a realistic value for 3 pieces of average quality AA-sized accus.
Three AA NiMH cells typically have the capacity of over 10Wh (3 x 1.3V x 2600 mAh). At some types of alkaline AA cells it could be over 15Wh.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 16, 2016, 03:22:25 PMThe interesting thing now is: will it recharge ? Normal accus don't recharge, at least not to their full initial capacity.
No accus recharge alone. It is the voltage, not the charge, that recovers. During the discharge, the chemical processes between the electrodes and the electrolyte saturate the electrodes, resulting in drop of potential (voltage). It is the dropping of the voltage, not the lack of energy that causes the LED to dim.
During the rest, the battery chemically and thermally recovers, and the voltage grows back (while the charge remains the same), and the flashlight will start again with the full (or almost full) voltage and hence luminosity. You may be able repeating it many times before you completely drain the battery. Although, the cycles will be shorter and shorter.
Quote from: txt on February 16, 2016, 04:17:57 PM
Three AA NiMH cells typically have the capacity of over 10Wh (3 x 1.3V x 2600 mAh). At some types of alkaline AA cells it could be over 15Wh.
Only theoretically. I have tested some 2500 and 2600 mAh cells and in practice they all had less than 2000 mAh or even less.
QuoteNo accus recharge alone. It is the voltage, not the charge, that recovers. During the discharge, the chemical processes between the electrodes and the electrolyte saturate the electrodes, resulting in drop of potential (voltage). It is the dropping of the voltage, not the lack of energy that causes the LED to dim.
During the rest, the battery chemically and thermally recovers, and the voltage grows back (while the charge remains the same), and the flashlight will start again with the full (or almost full) voltage and hence luminosity. You may be able repeating it many times before you completely drain the battery. Although, the cycles will be shorter and shorter.
Voltage alone means nothing, if the charge remains the same the voltage will break down immediately if you apply any load.
For a normal accu i would expect a significant brightness only for some minutes if it had been discharged some time before.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 16, 2016, 04:29:14 PMVoltage alone means nothing, if the charge remains the same the voltage will break down immediately if you apply any load.
Only if there is no sufficient charge, which is not the case when you power a LED. It is different at other appliances, not so sensitive about the voltage - they can drain the accu indeed faster and close to the limit of their capacity. Not so at a LED - as I explained, due to the chemical changes, the voltage will drop before the charge drops significantly. This potential (the voltage, not the charge) will then recover again, after some rest. The voltage at chemical batteries is not in direct correlation only with the charge as you assume. It depends on the chemical state and on the temperature too.
Quote from: txt on February 16, 2016, 04:37:40 PM
Only if there is no sufficient charge, which is not the case when you power a LED. It is different at other appliances, not so sensitive about the voltage - they can drain the accu indeed faster and close to the limit of their capacity. Not so at a LED - as I explained, due to the chemical changes, the voltage will drop before the charge drops significantly. This potential (the voltage, not the charge) will then recover again, after some rest. The voltage at chemical batteries is not in direct correlation only with the charge as you assume. It depends on the chemical state and on the temperature too.
Ok, so you run it down from 100% to 30%, LED goes off, you let it recover for some time, it remains at 30% charge but voltage increases so you can do another run which will run it down from 30% to 10%, etc... so the LED will work let's say 2 hrs for the first time, 30 min for the second time, etc... until the voltage remains permanently below the minimum operation voltage for the LED.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 16, 2016, 04:43:53 PMOk, so you run it down from 100% to 30%, LED goes off, you let it recover for some time, it remains at 30% charge but voltage increases so you can do another run which will run it down from 30% to 10%, etc... so the LED will work let's say 2 hrs for the first time, 30 min for the second time, etc... until the voltage remains permanently below the minimum operation voltage for the LED.
Since we did not measure the current, we cannot know how much of the charge you really drained. I would not exclude that you drained only 30% or 40% of the total charge, or even significantly less if high-capacity alkaline batteries were used. So it is hard to estimate how many cycles you will be able to do, but the times should indeed be shorter and shorter.
The effect of the batteries I am speaking about is well documented in scientific literature. It is called "relaxation effect". I just picked up the first paper from Google speaking about it - http://jes.ecsdl.org/content/141/4/982 - it refers to Li-ion batteries, so depending on the type of the battery in ELFE, it may differ a bit, but the principle is the same.
I found another paper, explaining the voltage recovery during the relaxation period better than the one I posted above, and in greater details. This time it is the full version, not only an abstract. If you do not want to read the entire paper, look at the Fig.2 and read the couple of paragraphs above it. I am attaching also a link of the standalone diagram below the link of the PDF. It shows the voltage recovery after the load is removed. The top diagram is for initially fully charged battery; the bottom one if for a depleted battery. The ideal recovery time at Li-ion batteries is around 2 hours (that comes from another paper)
http://www.ti.com/lit/ml/slyp086/slyp086.pdf
http://m.eet.com/media/1053387/TI_Algorithms_Fig2.gif
Quote from: skywatcher on February 16, 2016, 02:43:43 PM
1st testrun:
16.02.16 |
18:30:00 |
26000 |
|
18:40:00 |
28800 |
|
18:50:00 |
28700 |
|
19:00:00 |
29000 |
|
19:10:00 |
28900 |
|
19:20:00 |
28800 |
|
19:30:00 |
28700 |
|
19:40:00 |
28600 |
|
19:50:00 |
28200 |
|
20:00:00 |
27500 |
|
20:10:00 |
26200 |
|
20:20:00 |
24200 |
|
20:30:00 |
20000 |
|
20:40:00 |
11400
|
At 20:40 i switched it off because light intensity was falling rapidly.
Thanks for Sharing the results
I expect you will get a good bounce back but progressively shorter running times after each test. I am running a similar test with 3 aa nimh batteries driving three leds
Mark
Update:
16.02.16 18:30:00 26000
18:40:00 28800
18:50:00 28700
19:00:00 29000
19:10:00 28900
19:20:00 28800
19:30:00 28700
19:40:00 28600
19:50:00 28200
20:00:00 27500
20:10:00 26200
20:20:00 24200
20:30:00 20000
20:40:00 11400
17.02.16 18:30:00 13800
18:35:00 10000
18:40:00 5100
No significant recharging. :(
I still have the contact problems, and the lamp was in a horizontal position so maybe the accus were not properly in contact with each otherduring the recharging time (maybe this is necessary for recharging ?) so i will give it another try by putting the lamp in an upright position until tomorrow so that the accus are pressed together by their own weight.
Visually the lamp still emits enough light to appear quite bright.
This shows that it is not possible to 'measure' light intensity visually, with the human eye, or with a normal video camera.
To do tests, it's absolutely necessary to *measure* the light output with a light sensor.
Looks good, and consistent with the theory. The shaking noise you hear is typical for the ELFE battery - all users report it, but it does not seem to harm anything. My theory is that it must be the Schumann resonances that you hear there. Finally the aluminium body is the best amplifier known to man, and works for frequencies from 3Hz to 5GHz or more, so it certainly amplifies any shaking noise too!
Regarding the insufficient contact - if there was no contact between the batteries when laying horizontally, the flashlight would not light, or would be blinking. It does not seem to be the case with your tests, as far as I understood.
... and BTW, Mr. Ivchenko of ADGEX has clearly shown that the batteries "recharge" when the switch is turned off, so it is clear that they do not need any closed circuit to "recharge", and hence any contact problems could not influence the "recharging"
Quote from: txt on February 17, 2016, 01:24:21 PM
Looks good, and consistent with the theory. The shaking noise you hear is typical for the ELFE battery - all users report it, but it does not seem to harm anything.
The harm is that the electrical contact between the cells is interrupted quite often, and this is also quite annoying for normal use.
I had this problem in the past with other flashlights of similar style, and i used to fix it quite easily by inserting a 'blob' of crumbled aluminium foil between the negative battery contact and the switch (it has to be isolated against the metallic tube otherwise the switch will be shortened).
QuoteMy theory is that it must be the Schumann resonances that you hear there.
:P ;D
Quote from: txt on February 17, 2016, 01:30:54 PM
Regarding the insufficient contact - if there was no contact between the batteries when laying horizontally, the flashlight would not light, or would be blinking. It does not seem to be the case with your tests, as far as I understood.
At the beginning of each test i did some shaking to get the best possible contact.
So it might be possible that during the recharging time there was no good contact for some time.
Quote... and BTW, Mr. Ivchenko of ADGEX has clearly shown that the batteries "recharge" when the switch is turned off, so it is clear that they do not need any closed circuit to "recharge", and hence any contact problems could not influence the "recharging"
From a conventional point of view you are right, but from this point of view it would not work anyway.
So *if* it works, there has some kind of 'magic' to be involved, which we don't understand. ;)
Quote from: skywatcher on February 17, 2016, 01:40:13 PMSo *if* it works, there has some kind of 'magic' to be involved, which we don't understand. ;)
I think I know the magic :)
But let's wait the results of tests of the other users. There is at least another one who was wise enough to get a luxmeter, though his ELFE is still on the way, so it may take some time. In the meantime, some other tests without the luxmeter, show degradation of brightness and times too, but the users decided to wait 14 days before the next attempt. I know about 2 of them minimally. That's if I do not count the Russian, who opened the flashlight, and measured the depletion of the batteries after 3 weeks of rest directly.
Someone asked about the diameter of the bright light spot: It has a diameter of 9 cm at 1 m distance from the front window.
I have changed my test procedure:
I have discharged the ELFE until the light intensity was < 1% of the initial value.
This low light intensity is quite stable and i think it would run for days or even weeks on this level.
So i switched it off today at 0:00 when it had a light intensity of 260.
Now i will switch it on every day in the evening for 90 sec and measure the light intensity 30, 60 and 90 sec after switching it on.
Measuring immediately after switching it on makes no sense because it always starts very bright but falls down quite fast in the first seconds.
So this is the first measurement:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Let's see if it will go up or down in the next days...
Perfect! Thank you very much, Skywatcher, for the detailed reporting and wise testing. Unfortunately so far you are the only one bringing some valuable data!
Quote from: txt on February 18, 2016, 02:10:34 PM
Perfect! Thank you very much, Skywatcher, for the detailed reporting and wise testing. Unfortunately so far you are the only one bringing some valuable data!
Thanks :) i would also like to see more people doing such systematic tests so that the results could be compared...
Another German customer on the FB group bought a luxmeter inspired by your test, but he still did not receive the parcel. There is also a Dutch guy who posts videos of his testing (without measuring the light intensity) on Youtube, but since he discharged the flashlight with several consequent long runs, he will now let the flashlight resting for 17 days before doing another test. Then there is TheCell here, who did his tests in similar way as the Dutch, and should do his next test on 22nd, if I remember well. Then there are several ELFE owners who do not report anything at all, for some reasons - like Esaruoho here, or some others on the FB group, and elsewhere.
I think you should all join on the FB group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/447575128775098/), to compare your data, and to fine-tune the protocols. And in the case your tests confirm the suspicion of the scam, I would suggest a joint complaint at relevant authorities (either your local customer protection agency, or directly in Australia where ADGEX is registered. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (http://www.accc.gov.au/) may be one of the choices. If you decide just to return the flashlight to get a new one, you either receive another non-functional, or ADGEX keeps it without any replacement to avoid letting evidence in hands of people who discovered their scam. I guess that they may be watching the reactions of customers on the web, so they may be already aware that it may turn bad for them soon.
BTW, was there any address of the Chinese factory or the distributor who send you the flashlight, on the parcel? Could you post the name and address here, so that we can try checking whether they do not have identical flashlights in their standard offer? It would be amusing if standard Chinese flashlights for $1/pc were constructed with the same ultrawideband "resonator" (word or Mr. Ivchenko of ADGEX, describing the body of the ELFE flashlight).
Great work Skywatcher and all on testing the claims. My argument has always been that this is mainly a "one shot" and then the promoters of this scam all walk (hide) away. If they got orders for say 2000 flashlights, I think if you crunched the numbers they still walk away with a lot of money - 5000 flashlights and they get a serious chunk of money. Conrad thinks it's primarily an investment scam, who knows.
What is interesting is that presumably something similar is taking place with a lower number of units with the new Orbo charging device and the Orbo phone. Orbo Girl might be running to Obama Girl for comfort.
Quote from: txt on February 18, 2016, 03:13:18 PM
BTW, was there any address of the Chinese factory or the distributor who send you the flashlight, on the parcel? Could you post the name and address here, so that we can try checking whether they do not have identical flashlights in their standard offer? It would be amusing if standard Chinese flashlights for $1/pc were constructed with the same ultrawideband "resonator" (words or Mr. Ivchenko of ADGEX, describing the body of the ELFE flashlight).
Here is the paper which was on the envelope.
I have blacked out my address and a barcode with the tracking number.
Quote from: MileHigh on February 18, 2016, 03:14:07 PMGreat work Skywatcher and all on testing the claims. My argument has always been that this is mainly a "one shot" and then the promoters of this scam all walk (hide) away. If they got orders for say 2000 flashlights, I think if you crunched the numbers they still walk away with a lot of money - 5000 flashlights and they get a serious chunk of money. Conrad thinks it's primarily an investment scam, who knows.
The investment scam was my claim since the very beginning. I describe it in details at Metabunk (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/). I investigate them since several weeks, and since I understand some Russian too, I was able to dig a lot of information about them on the Russian part of the web. Although they are registered in Australia, they are all Russians, living in Russia (and other ex-Soviet countries), and practically all their investors are likely Russians too. So far they sold over AU$75 million of shares, so the money from the flashlight is absolutely uninteresting for them. The flashlight is nothing else than a demonstration product showing that the ELFE technology exists and works, and that their kW and MW ELFE systems (and other bunk fake technologies they allegedly develop) are viable. If you look them up, in the last few months they do gigantic publicity fund raising campaign, but practically only in Russia. They certainly hope that it will take couple of months before the flashlight affair explodes (if ever at all), and that in the meantime they will get even more than they already raised. But finally those $75M are already not so bad, so once the bubble bursts, they simply close the Australian corporation (just a mailbox in fact). Nobody will get them in Russia. Except if there are some mafiosi among their investors. But Viktor Uzlov, who appears to be the main boss of ADGEX, looks like a mafioso too, so he is probably not scared much.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 18, 2016, 03:29:48 PM
Here is the paper which was on the envelope.
I have blacked out my address and a barcode with the tracking number.
Hmm, it does not look well. Not sure whether the couple of Chinese characters at the top can reveal something. If there is nobody here who could read them, I'll try to decode it somehow.
Thanks for that information Txt, now I can see how it resembles the Steorn model as an investment scam.
I succeeded to OCR the characters, it gives this: 瑞士由口政′J、包 I think some of the middle characters were not correctly recognized, but anyway, after passing it through a translator, it is clear that it just tells it comes from some Switzerland gateway, or dispatch central. The translation is "Switzerland from the mouth governance 'J, package" - part of it is wrong because of the OCR error, but it would not reveal the identity of the factory anyway.
What about the online tracking details, Skywatcher, wasn't there the address of the sender?
Quote from: txt on February 18, 2016, 03:58:34 PM
What about the online tracking details, Skywatcher, wasn't there the address of the sender?
No, not at all. Only 'China'.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 18, 2016, 04:03:27 PM
No, not at all. Only 'China'.
OK, nice address :) If you find anything else on the packaging or on the flashlight self (even just some series of codes or numbers), either try Googling it, or post it please here, so that we can try to find out something more. However, I think the chance is very slim.
Skywatcher:
Yes, thank you for doing these tests. It is very interesting and I also appreciate it.
TXT:
I had the same thought about finding the Chinese manufacturer to see if they sold the same light for like $5.00 US. Wouldn't that be a hoot? I wonder if we can search by photo and see if there is a match from say Alibaba or somewhere?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 18, 2016, 09:15:55 PMI had the same thought about finding the Chinese manufacturer to see if they sold the same light for like $5.00 US. Wouldn't that be a hoot? I wonder if we can search by photo and see if there is a match from say Alibaba or somewhere?
I already browsed through +20,000 flashlights at Alibaba (ufff..) and did not find it there. I still believe that it is a standard product of some Chinese manufacturer, just perhaps not in their public catalog, or simply just not on Alibaba. Or perhaps it is not correctly cataloged (I only browsed through AA flashlights).
Quote from: txt on February 18, 2016, 09:25:58 PM
I already browsed through +20,000 flashlights at Alibaba (ufff..) and did not find it there. I still believe that it is a standard product of some Chinese manufacturer, just perhaps not in their public catalog, or simply just not on Alibaba. Or perhaps it is not correctly cataloged (I only browsed though AA flashlights).
Wow, that's a lot of searching. Of course those factories will make whatever you want them to but, most folks just choose something they already make and put their name on it...obviously a lot cheaper and the minimum manufacturing run is not in the tens of thousands. Let's all keep our eyes out...I'll bet it shows up somewhere else sooner or later.
Bill
BTW, I have plotted Skywatcher's test data into a chart, so that you can better visualize the discharging curves. The first day (blue line in the graph) the flashlight was on for 2 hours and 10 minutes, when it dropped from 28000 lux to 11400. 24 hours later, the batteries were supposed to be fully recharged. The 2nd test (orange line) have shown only slight increase of intensity to 13800 lux, but it started to drop instantly. This slight increase of the intensity was possible due to the battery relaxation effect, already described here earlier (normal and well know property of batteries).
I describe it in bigger details at Metabunk here: https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-176216
Just for a laugh, I will quote myself from Revolution Green:
<<<
What's so funny about this, and not to detract from the serious battery investigations going on, is that we all have already experienced this phenomenon in our daily lives. When I was a child in the 1960s and playing with my battery-powered toys, I became fully aware of how batteries discharge and then can recover somewhat and then the recovery cycles became shorter and shorter. I am sure everybody remembers flashlights when they had incandescent bulbs in them.
I literally had a very good feeling for the nature of this battery phenomenon by the time I was five years old.
>>>
Quote from: txt on February 18, 2016, 09:25:58 PM
I already browsed through +20,000 flashlights at Alibaba (ufff..) and did not find it there. I still believe that it is a standard product of some Chinese manufacturer, just perhaps not in their public catalog, or simply just not on Alibaba. Or perhaps it is not correctly cataloged (I only browsed through AA flashlights).
Even if we find out that it's a standard product, this would mean nothing, because it would make sense to use a standard product.
If there is anything special in this lamp, it's the batteries. Not the lamp itself.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 19, 2016, 01:58:55 AMEven if we find out that it's a standard product, this would mean nothing, because it would make sense to use a standard product. If there is anything special in this lamp, it's the batteries. Not the lamp itself.
Just another nail into the coffin that is already pretty tightly closed. The flashlight does not contain anything at all - no electronics, no antennas, no technology, nothing but batteries, a LED, and a simple switch. Mr. Ivchenko of ADGEX demonstrated it during the disassembly demonstration video, and he claimed that it is the body of the flashlight that is the "resonator" amplifying the ambient energy. In their own words, there is no other technology for harvesting the energy than the simple aluminium tube. So if we accept this claim, then it would be extremely surprising finding a mass produced common flashlight with a revolutionary overunity hi-tech resonator already included for just a few cents (Chinese flashlights of this type typically cost under a dollar in wholesale). If the "resonator" works in ELFE without any additional equipment, it means those original Chinese flashlights must self-recharge too.
Otherwise, I agree that although there is no chance that the thing works (and your data confirm it indeed doesn't), we still need more of the hard evidence, so I am looking forward to the next results from the tests. Just to exclude they don't use some miraculous batteries in regular flashlights, despite their claims. I see no such chance, but evidence is evidence.
Quote from: txt on February 19, 2016, 06:55:42 AM
....
So if we accept this claim, then it would be extremely surprising finding a mass produced common flashlight with a revolutionary overunity hi-tech resonator already included for just a few cents (Chinese flashlights of this type typically cost under a dollar in wholesale). If the "resonator" works in ELFE without any additional equipment, it means those original Chinese flashlights must self-recharge too.
Otherwise, I agree that although there is no chance that the thing works (and your data confirm it indeed doesn't), we still need more of the hard evidence, so I am looking forward to the next results from the tests. Just to exclude they don't use some miraculous batteries in regular flashlights. I see no such chance, but evidence is evidence.
The explanations we get from ADGEX about the principles of operation are all BS in my opinion.
It's not possible to get useful energy out of the earth's magnetic field or from Schumann waves.
There could be a (small) possibility that it works, but in this case it would work completely different.
When we look at the parts, the only possibility for 'exotic effects' could be the batteries, which might contain some 'special sauce' allowing them to self-recharge.
Forget about resonators etc... this is complete BS.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 19, 2016, 07:14:23 AMThere could be a (small) possibility that it works, but in this case it would work completely different.
When we look at the parts, the only possibility for 'exotic effects' could be the batteries, which might contain some 'special sauce' allowing them to self-recharge.
Forget about resonators etc... this is complete BS.
Yes, exactly. The 'special sauce' seems to be the well known Battery Relaxation Phenomena (BRP). And your results have confirmed it too, that there was no recharging at all, besides the small voltage increase due to the conventional BRP. We only need more data to independently confirm your measurements, but so far all evidence shows no recharging.
It would now be interesting to do some comparison discharge/recharge curves using ordinary batteries, like alkaline or NiMH etc. This could even be done with a separate set of LEDs, in effect making another flashlight which could be compared to the ELFE unit.
Quote from: TinselKoala on February 19, 2016, 08:34:06 AM
It would now be interesting to do some comparison discharge/recharge curves using ordinary batteries, like alkaline or NiMH etc. This could even be done with a separate set of LEDs, in effect making another flashlight which could be compared to the ELFE unit.
As far as I know there are three users making tests with standard flashlights. The first of them is Stuart Campbell, a moderator at PESN, but his test is useless because he chose to use a halogen bulb instead of LED. LEDs have exponential luminosity/voltage curve, while at incandescent bulbs it is close to linear. It means the halogen bulb will deplete the battery much more and deeper at each burn, leaving so much less room for the relaxation phenomena. The other ones, using standard LED flashlights, are Martin Berger in the FB group, and I believe Mark Dansie at Revolution-Green. Both are getting comparable results to ELFE, but unfortunately none of them uses a luxmeter, so we cannot consider those tests truly objective either.
BTW, my
prediction of today's results from Skywatcher for this evening, based on the theory of the Battery Relaxation Phenomena (BRP):
Yesterday at 00:00 the ELFE was emitting 260 lux. 19 hours of rest later, at 19:00, the voltage raised due to the BRP to allow 1280 lux 30s after the start, dropping to 963 lux at 90s. The discharge of 90s at ~3% of the maximal luminosity was totally negligible, hence we can expect the same or higher values today. Higher values are more likely, because unlike yesterday with the resting time of 19 hours, today he will test after 24 hours, so the recovery time is 5 hours longer, and the BRP may be slightly higher. If the "self-recharging" of ELFE worked, the ELFE lamp would have to emit at the maximal brightness again - over 28000 lux. However, already anything above 5 or 10 kilolux would be rather surprising too.
Quote from: txt on February 19, 2016, 09:45:51 AM
BTW, my prediction of today's results from Skywatcher for this evening, based on the theory of the Battery Relaxation Phenomena (BRP):
Yesterday at 00:00 the ELFE was emitting 260 lux. 19 hours of rest later, at 19:00, the voltage raised due to the BRP to allow 1280 lux 30s after the start, dropping to 963 lux at 90s. The discharge of 90s at ~3% of the maximal luminosity was totally negligible, hence we can expect the same or higher values today. Higher values are more likely, because unlike yesterday with the resting time of 19 hours, today he will test after 24 hours, so the recovery time is 5 hours longer, and the BRP may be slightly higher. If the "self-recharging" of ELFE worked, the ELFE lamp would have to emit at the maximal brightness again - over 28000 lux. However, already anything above 5 or 10 kilolux would be rather surprising too.
According to the 'specs' it will take up to 14 days to recharge if the lamp has been discharged almost completely.
So i would not expect that it has been fully charged in 24 hrs. If it would gain 10% every day it would meet the spec.
We will see in half an hour... stay tuned. :)
Quote from: skywatcher on February 19, 2016, 12:34:58 PMAccording to the 'specs' it will take up to 14 days to recharge if the lamp has been discharged almost completely.
Yes, that's true, that was an incorrect claim from me about the full recharging today. It means if there is only a small increase of luminosity, we won't know much, because it would fit both options, and we will have to wait for several days more. If the level stays about the same or lower, then the charging doesn't seem to exist, but again, more days will tell it better.
Update:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
19.02.16 19:00:00 1770 1460 1260
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Looks not so bad... but i don't know it it's only 'bounce' or if it has gained some charge... i think we have to wait some days to come to a conclusion.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 19, 2016, 01:06:41 PMLooks not so bad... but i don't know it it's only 'bounce' or if it has gained some charge... i think we have to wait some days to come to a conclusion.
Well, I expected around 1500 lux with the battery rebounce after longer rest, but there are too many factors to guess it precisely, and the margin of error of the measuring is also unknown, so I would tell it is the expected value, and it should be around the same, or again just a bit higher tomorrow (it will be after almost 70 hours of rest, with just 3 minutes of very tiny discharge current in that time). If the thing truly self-recharged, I would expect the increase of minimally 10% of the maximum value - increase of some 3000 lux (it measn around 4000 lux at the beginning). But realistically, if there was any charging current, the charging curve of all batteries is very steep at the beginning and flattens to the end of the charging cycle, so within the first day, the charge of up to 50% would be more expected
Quote from: txt on February 19, 2016, 01:21:47 PM
Well, I expected around 1500 lux with the battery rebounce after longer rest, but there are too many factors to guess it precisely, and the margin of error of the measuring is also unknown, so I would tell it is the expected value, and it should be around the same, or again just a bit higher tomorrow (it will be after almost 70 hours of rest, with just 3 minutes of very tiny discharge current in that time). If the thing truly self-recharged, I would expect the increase of minimally 10% of the maximum value - it means increase of some 3000 lux (it measn around 4000 lux at the beginning). But realistically, if there was any charging current, the charging curve of all batteries is very steep at the beginning and flattens to the end of the charging cycle, so within the first day, the charge of up to 50% would be more expected
We don't know if the recharging process (if any) is 'constant current' or anything else. So we can only make some predictions based on known battery charge process and compare it with the measurements of the next days. Tomorrow we will see if the brightness curve is linear, or if it's above or below of the linear extrapolation. Because we measure only the brightness we can not say much about actual values of voltage, current etc.
Most Smartphones can work as a Lux meter - you just grab any one of several apps off the play store and you will have a fair Lux / Lumen meter. It's how most smart phones determine auto-screen brightness and when to blank the screen while you are holding it to your head talking.
EDIT: sorry, I did not notice the post above, when writing mine, so I repeat it partially below!
BTW, as it was already written, other owners who are currently testing their ELFE flashlights, like TheCell or Esaruoho, should definitely consider measuring the light brightness with something else than the naked eye, because Skywatcher's own experience clearly shows that even a very steep and deep change is hard to spot by the naked eye. If you do not want to spend money on a luxmeter like Skywatcher did, you can use a DSLR camera, many compact cameras, or even a phone luxmeter application. The following short video tutorial demonstrates how to use a DSLR camera for taking the illumination values. You will find many more descriptions for such proceedings on the web if you search for "measuring lux" and "camera" or similar terms. This is the video tutorial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xU0pWjugTo
The measuring by a DSLR camera may be a bit more reliable. The absolute accuracy of phone sensors is questionable, but it should be fine for the approximate comparison of the flashlight in different periods of the test, and definitely much more objective than the naked eye, or than comparing photos or video frames. You should only try to keep the level of the environment light as constant as possible, or measuring in contact with the flashlight reflector screen (trough some translucent filters), like Skywatcher does - it eliminates the external influences better.
Search for "luxmeter" in the stores of your phone OS for a suitable application. There are plenty of them.
Another owner of the ELFE flashlight reported on the FB group today:
Arman Gevorkyan: "My elfe first day began working with 20000 lux and after 4 hours droped to 1000 lux. Next day it began with 15000 lux, however after 10 minutes it dropped the light intensity to 1000 lux. I have turned off it to rest for few days and will see if it recovers energy level."
So far it corresponds pretty closely to the results of Skywatcher in the first two days, although Arman used a longer 1st run. AGDEX claims full power after 3-4 hours of operations each day. No recharging to the full power could be observed in these two cases (Skywatcher and Arman). The light increase in luminosity after the rest is a known phenomena, and does not indicate any recharging. Let's wait for the next data from testers.
PS: Arman used a lightmeter application in his smartphone, and measured the light from the distance of 15cm.
Another edit: this is the video after Arman's second run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoWrpOmDl5Q
Update:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
19.02.16 19:00:00 1770 1460 1260
20.02.16 19:00:00 1520 1280 1115
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Now it's going down... :(
Many thanks for sharing the data, Skywatcher, despite that the results are certainly disappointing for you. Since, another ELFE flashlight owner confirmed your first test with a luxmeter too, the evidence starts to take a very firm shape, and there is not a lot of chance of some miracle, but let's wait for more data to be absolutely sure.
Anyone who would like to make a joint complaint to help stopping ADGEX in their investment scam, please contact me privately (via the Private Message here), and send me your documentation (invoices, correspondence with ADGEX, payment bills, photos, measured data, .. etc). I am preparing a folder to submit to the Australian investment crime-watch agency, so any evidence would be appreciated.
Before doing so, we have to be absolutely sure, there is no self-recharging. The current data does not let a lot of hope, but we should still respect the principle of the benefit of doubt - we need results from a longer test, and from multiple owners.
Quote from: txt on February 20, 2016, 01:23:08 PM
Many thanks for sharing the data, Skywatcher, despite that the results are certainly disappointing for you. Since, another ELFE flashlight owner confirmed your first test with a luxmeter too, the evidence starts to take a very firm shape, and there is not a lot of chance of some miracle, but let's wait for more data to be absolutely sure.
Anyone who would like to make a joint complaint to help stopping ADGEX in their investment scam, please contact me privately (via the Private Message here), and send me your documentation (invoices, correspondence with ADGEX, payment bills, photos, measured data, .. etc). I am preparing a folder to submit to the Australian investment crime-watch agency, so any evidence would be appreciated.
Before doing so, we have to be absolutely sure, there is no self-recharging. The current data does not let a lot of hope, but we should still respect the principle of the benefit of doubt - we need results from a longer test, and from multiple owners.
You are absolutely right. I will continue my measurements for at least one week, to be absolutely sure.
I also have email contact with Mr. Muzanov. At least they are answering customer complaints, and try to find solutions. I complained about the contact problems caused by loose batteries. The first answer was that i could return it but i found out that sending it back from Germany to Australia or China would cost almost half of the amount i paid for it so this would not be an option for me. Then he offered me to send it to someone in Germany who will travel to their business meeting next week, or i could also fix it myself if i would know how to do it. So i fixed it myself, which was very easy because on my ELFE the front ring can be unscrewed. I have made a small disc out of crumbled aluminium foil and fixed it with some tape on the negative pole of the battery next to the switch. The tape also isolates it to the tube, so that the switch will not be bridged. I also sent my measurements to Mr. Muzanov together with my doubts if there is any rechargement at all.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 20, 2016, 02:04:02 PM
You are absolutely right. I will continue my measurements for at least one week, to be absolutely sure.
I also have email contact with Mr. Muzanov. At least they are answering customer complaints, and try to find solutions. I complained about the contact problems caused by loose batteries. The first answer was that i could return it but i found out that sending it back from Germany to Australia or China would cost almost half of the amount i paid for it so this would not be an option for me. Then he offered me to send it to someone in Germany who will travel to their business meeting next week, or i could also fix it myself if i would know how to do it. So i fixed it myself, which was very easy because on my ELFE the front ring can be unscrewed. I have made a small disc out of crumbled aluminium foil and fixed it with some tape on the negative pole of the battery next to the switch. The tape also isolates it to the tube, so that the switch will not be bridged. I also sent my measurements to Mr. Muzanov together with my doubts if there is any rechargement at all.
Forgetting about the non-recharging issue for the moment...isn't it sad that you have to repair a brand new $100 flashlight with some aluminum foil? Just about all of the companies I have done business with over the years would have replaced that unit right away, including free shipping for the new unit and the return of the old one. This right here tells me this is not a company I would ever want to do business with...even IF their lights actually did recharge, which I highly doubt.
Bill
PS Nice job on the testing.
Just to visualize the data from the three days of Skywatcher's test #2, I've plotted them into a graph, too. Please note that the time scale does not include the resting times, which would take too much place. And the illumination Y axes does not scale to the maximum of 29000 lux at fully charged batteries, but rather just to the maximum reached during the 3 days of "recharging" - roughly 6% of the max.
The average brightness during the test was only at around 4% of the maximum, drawing so only negligible currents and energy from the battery during 90 seconds, while resting 24 hours between the burns (4½ minutes during 67 hours). The small bounces of the intensity at the start of every burn are perfectly consistent with the Battery Relaxation Phenomena. Already at the 3rd day, it is clear that the rebounce is smaller than the day before, hence no self-recharging was observed.
Quote from: txt on February 20, 2016, 02:26:26 PM
Just to visualize the data from the three days of Skywatcher's test #2, I've plotted them into a graph, too. Please note that the time scale does not include the resting times, which would take too much place. And the illumination Y axes does not scale to the maximum of 29000 lux at fully charged batteries, but rather just to the maximum reached during the 3 days of "recharging" - roughly 6% of the max.
The average brightness during the test was only at around 4% of the maximum, drawing so only negligible currents and energy from the battery during 90 seconds, while resting 24 hours between the burns (4½ minutes during 67 hours). The small bounces of the intensity at the start of every burn are perfectly consistent with the Battery Relaxation Phenomena. Already at the 3rd day, it is clear that the rebounce is smaller than the day before, hence no self-recharging was observed.
Very nice graph. I guess this is clear proof that Skywatcher lives in a dead zone right? (Grin) I mean, what else are they going to say?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 20, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Very nice graph. I guess this is clear proof that Skywatcher lives in a dead zone right? (Grin) I mean, what else are they going to say?
Bill
I live in a place with plenty of EM noise like Wifi networks etc... so according to the 'official story' recharging should work quite well...
Just for another test idea how about putting it right next to or in front of a microwave oven the next time you need to cook something for several minutes. Despite the essential Faraday design of most MOV's they still put out a huge amount of EMF (I've measured it with an EMF meter). See if that does anything for recharging. You might also set it next to a house breaker panel which tends to have 60 cycle EMF for some tests. If none of those make any difference I think I'd be calling foul on this and pursuing a refund unless you just like the light as is.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 20, 2016, 06:16:47 PM
I live in a place with plenty of EM noise like Wifi networks etc... so according to the 'official story' recharging should work quite well...
LOL - they forgot to say this is a KIT ...you buy the flashlight ...then add the recharging circuit yourself! ;-)
greetings
np
Stuart Campbell reproduces the ELFE effect with $10 flashlight.
In his attempt to refute the skeptics and prove the the battery rebound or relaxation effect is bullshit, and that Flashlights can not run for long he as inadvertently shown what a scam the ELFE really is.
Quote:
Summary (Updated)
[/color]Right now, its a good brightness and can be used as a torch.
At 6pm (30 hr mark) last night I could only describe the brightness as dull. It looked like the torch wouldn't keep going much longer. At the 35 hour mark it suddenly lurched brighter. During the night it got even brighter.
But tonight, 24 hours later, it is a different story, its going very well and not looking at all dull.[/size]
I believe this torch is going to easily see out 72 hours. Its already beating Ray's Elfe running time (49 hours) by a country mile. Yet the AAA's are one third the storage (800mAh as opposed to 2,600mAh) size of the Elfe. 12 LED's versus the Elfe's 1 LED.
By now it should have stopped running. Instead, during the night it got brighter. Right now it feels like it is not going to run out of power at all. The dullness has gone, the brightness is back.
WHY ? is the big question. There is no way this torch should be still running, let alone getting brighter. But it has, and has also increased its power intensity. Just what on earth is going on ?????
I think (think, being the operative word) I have worked a few theories out as to just what is going on.
But it would be so wonderful to tell you without being attacked for daring to mention what it may be.
They are theories, and possibly outside the beloved laws of physics, you know the holy physics religion, that thou shell not dare think outside ?
It would be oh so nice to have thoughts without being attacked for them..
There are several factors which I believe are making the difference.
One I found quite accidentally. It involves the position the torch is in. Position X makes a big difference. I believe finding position X is why the torch went from dull to bright. It has remained bright ever since.
The Elfe testers are plonking their torch down just anywhere to charge. I no longer am. Have I found something important ? Maybe ! I think I have, but only time will tell.[/size]
I am starting to believe there is some reality about this Elfe torch. But also in the sense it doesn't have to be an Elfe torch at all. But it does have to be a certain sort of torch with certain features. Without them it won't work. Therein lies the secret ingredient/s. This is an everyday thing, nothing special about it at all, but if you know what it is, it makes all the difference as to whether this works or not.
But before I put my neck on the line, I am going to wait until it at least passes the 72 hour mark (or even further). Then I will have a lot more surety of this experiment and my thinking.[/size]
But if this torch reaches 72 hours then something very strange is going on. It ain't battery's running it anymore, but something else.[/size]
Lol - allcanadian was spot on with his FixTheWorld vs TK post, reminding us about the 'Faster Down the Wind' fiasco
Hold an LED flashlight head up to an illuminated regular LED kitchen spot (eg. Low-wattage replacement for Halogen GU10 spots) and you can get over 1.5V out of the head - enough voltage to (trickle?) charge a NiMH cell
ADGEX just forgot:-
a) to mention leaving their flashlight on a South-facing window sill to recharge, LEDs facing the sun
b) to include the switch wiring which connects each cell across the LED head via a low-volt drop diode, when the flashlight is off
...they were SO near actually being able to produce a workable product - and they wouldn't have needed to charge a scam price - many more people would pay some extra to buy a flashlight that can recharge itself without needing an additional solar panel built in to the case
...er, didn't someone start a thread recently (before it got bombed by that Atom93 doofus), ' "That's not a knife, THIS is a knife!" ...er, OU flashlight'? ;-)
ciao
np
I know the secret of the recharging of Campbell's batteries:
In the night, when he sleeps, a UFO is landing on the roof of his house, pathoskeptics accompanied by squadrons of ETs, and CIA and KGB agents break into his hi-tech laboratory, and secretly recharge his batteries. It is as simple as that.
Update:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
19.02.16 19:00:00 1770 1460 1260
20.02.16 19:00:00 1520 1280 1115
21.02.16 19:00:00 1480 1230 1070
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Still going down... :(
Looks like "a nearly dead ordinary battery."
Where does that lead you back to? Science understands the laws of induction. People play with the laws of induction on this forum every day. We can make measurements of the Earth's nearly static and unchanging magnetic field. Put those two facts together and even if the flashlight had a giant 12-foot-diameter loop attached to it it still would be impossible for the flashlight to charge from the Earth's magnetic field. Same logic applies to the fantasy of the Schumann resonance.
This is like when you get a call at home from some boiler room in India and they say it's Microsoft calling and they have detected that your computer has viruses. My response to the poor workie is to say, "You are working for a criminal." I repeat that as many times is required for them to hang up.
Thanks Skywatcher for the feedback. There is the updated graph below
Quote from: txt on February 21, 2016, 05:06:42 PM
Thanks Skywatcher for the feedback. There is the updated graph below
Down we go. Pretty soon, there will be negative light, whatever that might be, ha ha.
Bill
To see the results measured by Skywatcher (and confirmed by Arman Gevorkyan, Martin Berger, DEDcolorado @ Youtube, and Stuart Campell @ PESN) in the global context of all his tests, I compiled and plotted his results, together with LED and battery consumption curves, into the graphs below. I also wrote a very detailed analysis of the tests, with the interpretation of the results, conclusions, and the accompanying evidence. You can read it at Metabunk (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-176365).
Update:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
19.02.16 19:00:00 1770 1460 1260
20.02.16 19:00:00 1520 1280 1115
21.02.16 19:00:00 1480 1230 1070
22.02.16 19:00:00 1060 895 795
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Wow, this time there is not even any rebouncing. The discharging is even quicker than I anticipated. Thanks for sharing, Skywatcher!
Today the lamp had been stored in horizontal orientation (the last days it was vertical) and today it was some degrees warmer than the previous days.
Don't know if this had any influence... for the test tomorrow i will put it back to the other (slightly colder) place, and vertical again.
Updated graph
Quote from: skywatcher on February 22, 2016, 01:26:27 PM
Today the lamp had been stored in horizontal orientation (the last days it was vertical) and today it was some degrees warmer than the previous days.
Don't know if this had any influence... for the test tomorrow i will put it back to the other (slightly colder) place, and vertical again.
Yes, there is always certain margin of error due to different factors. Additionally, the first values are taken at 30s each time, and seeing the very steep discharge curve, the initial value at 0s would be significantly higher - fully consistent with the Battery Relaxation Phenomena. The continuing discharging is apparent. We can tell beyond any doubt that we cannot observe any self-recharging at all. After 115 hours of rest, the batteries would have to be already significantly charged (when not fully) if there was any truth on ADGEX's claims. Instead, the illumination values decrease below 3% of the maximum flux.
Obviously, the whole world, except of some small areas in Australia and Russia, seems to be a 'dead zone'. :P
Today also TheCell's test of the ELFE flashlight is due, after 14 days of rest. The LED should come on with the full force and continue lighting with high intensity for 10+ hours like during his first test (according to ADGEX). Unfortunately, TheCell did not measure the light intensity in any way, and AFAIK did not use any reference light and photos, so we have to rely on his subjective opinion. I do not remember whether he did only one single 10+ hours test, or more of them previously. If only one test was performed, we can expect that the light will shine very strongly at the beginning, but should lose its intensity considerably within ~30 minutes, even when watched with the naked eye. I hope The Cell will report back here soon too.
I would suggest to have a 48 hours rest in between so that nobody can argue that there is not enough "recharge" time. If then the descending curve will continue like before that argument would also be debunked.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 22, 2016, 01:50:45 PMObviously, the whole world, except of some small areas in Australia and Russia, seems to be a 'dead zone'. :P
Unfortunately, Russia is probably also filled with dead zones - the first evidence of it comes from the YT videos of the Russian customers that I posted here a few weeks ago.
On the other hand Schumann resonances seem to be so strong in New Zealand or perhaps also in Australia, that the "self-recharging effect" works even in the ordinary cheap NZ$10 flashlight bought in a supermarket, as the PESN moderator Stuart Campbell demonstrated in his own failed attempt to prove skeptics wrong. :D
And here the results of my ELFE Flashlight
Only to remember :
2weeks ago ; I drained to the possible lowest light intensity with an test one day after to check out it's capability to recover
Now it lay on the table, switched off and untouched for 2weeks and yesterday I ran the test again and it was dissapointing:
Because it doesn't seem whether you let it recover for one day or for 2 weeks, the result is pretty much the same:
The lamps brightness when switched on is medium bright and it's intensity decreases pretty fast: after 15minutes it is on a fairly low level and after a total duration of 23minutes it is on a far more low level it will probably stay on for the next 2 hours.
When I first tested the lamp it ran for 2 hours with allmost no decrease in intensity at a far more brightness compared to the switched on state after 2 weeks.
Here the pics: the first link is the intensity at start of the test after the 2 weeks.
http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/608/
http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/607/
http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/606/
The results are so clear , that I don't need exact measurement do draw the conclusion , that it did not fullfill the expactations of a 'free energy self charging flashlight'
Thank you, The Cell, for the reporting, despite your disappointment!
Anyone who has been scammed by ADGEX, and would like to help stopping the crooks continuing their fraud, and also preventing their much more serious suspected multi-million investment fraud, can contact me through the Private Message here (an icon near the alias name), and share some information that I could pass to the authorities.
If you prefer doing it alone, the ADGEX company is registered in Australia, with the registration number ACN 156 556 035 - you can use for example one of the following links, or contacting you local authorities, or an association for protecting consumers' rights.
https://www.asic.gov.au/about-asic/contact-us/how-to-complain/report-misconduct-to-asic/
https://www.scamwatch.gov.au/report-a-scam
https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/report-a-scam
You can also use the information collected about the scam on the Metabunk website:
https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285
Update:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
19.02.16 19:00:00 1770 1460 1260
20.02.16 19:00:00 1520 1280 1115
21.02.16 19:00:00 1480 1230 1070
22.02.16 19:00:00 1060 895 795
23.02.16 19:00:00 790 685 610
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Thanks for the data Skywatcher! It does not leave any doubts. Updated graph below:
Please note that the label inside the graph should start with "24 hours ..." not "4 hours"- it was trimmed during the export into the PNG image, and I am lazy doing it again
Update:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
19.02.16 19:00:00 1770 1460 1260
20.02.16 19:00:00 1520 1280 1115
21.02.16 19:00:00 1480 1230 1070
22.02.16 19:00:00 1060 895 795
23.02.16 19:00:00 790 685 610
24.02.16 19:20:00 485 425 389
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 24, 2016, 01:23:32 PM
Update:
18.02.16 00:00:00 260
t=30sec t=60sec t=90sec
18.02.16 19:00:00 1280 1090 963
19.02.16 19:00:00 1770 1460 1260
20.02.16 19:00:00 1520 1280 1115
21.02.16 19:00:00 1480 1230 1070
22.02.16 19:00:00 1060 895 795
23.02.16 19:00:00 790 685 610
24.02.16 19:20:00 485 425 389
The value for 'fully charged' would be > 28000.
Sywatcher I am guessing you live in Faraday cage inside an underground bunker.
Quote from: TheCell on February 23, 2016, 07:48:05 AM
And here the results of my ELFE Flashlight
Only to remember :
2weeks ago ; I drained to the possible lowest light intensity with an test one day after to check out it's capability to recover
Now it lay on the table, switched off and untouched for 2weeks and yesterday I ran the test again and it was dissapointing:
Because it doesn't seem whether you let it recover for one day or for 2 weeks, the result is pretty much the same:
The lamps brightness when switched on is medium bright and it's intensity decreases pretty fast: after 15minutes it is on a fairly low level and after a total duration of 23minutes it is on a far more low level it will probably stay on for the next 2 hours.
When I first tested the lamp it ran for 2 hours with allmost no decrease in intensity at a far more brightness compared to the switched on state after 2 weeks.
Here the pics: the first link is the intensity at start of the test after the 2 weeks.
http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/608/
http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/607/
http://overunity.com/downloads/sa/view/down/606/
The results are so clear , that I don't need exact measurement do draw the conclusion , that it did not fullfill the expactations of a 'free energy self charging flashlight'
Hi TheCell. Yes, it appears that you have confirmed that the ELFE flashlight is a scam.
Two weeks left 'charging' and it did not even come anywhere close to fully recharging.
It does not appear to have recharged the batteries at all. That looks like just the normal bounce back
effect that batteries will show after being left sitting for a while. You could now contact Adgex and ask
for a full refund and point out that you left the flashlight 'charging' for two full weeks, and the batteries
did not recharge at all. It would be interesting to hear how Adgex responds to this. :)
How they will respond is predictable. Either they just will not, or they ask for return and exchange (one guy from the facebook group complainted about the wobbly batteries inside and he was told to send it back), or they will say the tests were done wrongly, or they will say you're in a "dead zone". What they won't say, is that it's just a hoax.
The latest graph, plotted with Skywatcher's data.
BTW, if you demand a refund, and they ask you to send the flashlight back, or if you want to have it replaced, make sure you request them to pay the return shipping. Under EU laws it is your right. In other countries there may be similar laws. Check out for example this article:
Online trader must pay return postage for faulty goods throughout the warranty period (http://www.eccbelgium.be/online-trader-must-pay-return-postage-for-faulty-goods-throughout-the-warranty-period-s69661.htm)
QuoteIf the item you ordered online turns out to be faulty, always ask the seller first whether he will organize the return of the item. If he doesn't, return the item at your own expense. If the defect is the result of a manufacturing fault you are entitled to ask the seller for a refund of the return postage. Always retain your proof of payment (of the return postage).
Opt for a safe shipment method. After all, you are responsible for the safe return of the item/parcel. If the parcel is lost or damaged during transport you are not entitled to compensation from the seller. Always check the cost of returning the item in advance. If it appears excessively high get the seller's approval first.
Some relevant information also at http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm
You are truly awesome, Txt. I have never seen anybody do a better job than you in a case like this.
After yesterday's test i decided to end the test (the result is pretty clear now) and so i let the flashlight burn.
Now it's down to 5.2 lux. It's so dim that i can look directly at the LED chip without getting blinded.
R.I.P. >:(
Thanks @txt for making the nice diagrams from my data. :)
Thanks for the kind words, MileHigh and Skywatcher! It always pleases, when such effort is appreciated, and especially because some of the ELFE owners, ADGEX victims, suffer the Stockholm Syndrome, and instead of being thankful for the exposure of the scam, they feel attacked, and react in a hostile way - I've been already accused, in this case, of being paid by the Big Oil industry to discredit the Free Energy inventors, in the purpose of hiding yet another Free Energy technology from the mankind. And I've got other insults too. So it is certainly nice to know that there are also people who appreciate to learn the truth, although it may not be what they wished for.
Quote from: txt on February 25, 2016, 12:52:16 PM
I've been already accused, in this case, of being paid by the Big Oil industry to discredit the Free Energy inventors, in the purpose of hiding yet another Free Energy technology from the mankind.
You could send one of them to me, i would sell him my almost brand-new ELFE with 20% discount. ;D
(i would even replace the batteries with new ones for 100% customer satisfaction *LOL*)
Quote from: skywatcher on February 25, 2016, 12:35:17 PM
After yesterday's test i decided to end the test (the result is pretty clear now) and so i let the flashlight burn.
Now it's down to 5.2 lux. It's so dim that i can look directly at the LED chip without getting blinded.
R.I.P. >:(
Thanks @txt for making the nice diagrams from my data. :)
Now it will be interesting to see if you get the "Sorry that you live in a dead zone" email response. I do not know if there is such an email but, if there is, you may be one of the first to receive one. Maybe it will even include a map that shows..."You are here"...and some indication of the dead zone surrounding you.
Who knows? They may actually offer to replace it. I would be shocked (pun intended) if you receive a refund. Please keep us posted and...good luck.
Thanks for sharing your test results and, thanks also to TXT for the great graphs. These graphs could be used in your refund claim maybe?
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 25, 2016, 02:37:11 PM
I would be shocked (pun intended) if you receive a refund.
From a strategical point of view, it would pay off for them to 'silence' people like me with a refund so they can continue selling their stuff to people who don't even recognize that it doesn't work properly. ;)
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 25, 2016, 02:37:11 PMI would be shocked (pun intended) if you receive a refund.
I would not be shocked at all. The ELFE customers are not their target. ADGEX uses the product just to attract more investors. Who would not like to buy shares of a company that sells products working with free energy technology, and that plans developing and sellin big home and industrial generators using the same tech?
On my mind they will do everything to make it longer - they'll offer replacements, and even refunding without big hassle. They need to avoid that unsatisfied customers pursue them in Australia. Although they are practically nonpunishable, since they reside in Russia, if Australian authorities started to investigate them, it could harm their investment business.
Already in April 2015 they sold shares for
AU$75 million, and I guess that it is now significantly more. Seeing that, I am sure they don't care about couple of $100 refunds.
Quote from: txt on February 25, 2016, 03:34:19 PM
I would not be shocked at all. The ELFE customers are not their target. ADGEX uses the product just to attract more investors. Who would not like to buy shares of a company that sells products working with free energy technology, and that plans developing and sellin big home and industrial generators using the same tech?
On my mind they will do everything to make it longer - they'll offer replacements, and even refunding without big hassle. They need to avoid that unsatisfied customers pursue them in Australia. Although they are practically nonpunishable, since they reside in Russia, if Australian authorities started to investigate them, it could harm their investment business.
Already in April 2015 they sold shares for AU$75 million, and I guess that it is now significantly more. Seeing that, I am sure they don't care about couple of $100 refunds.
Excellent points. I forgot it was more of an investment scam than a phony product scam. 75 million, Holy smokes!
Bill
Quote from: txt on February 25, 2016, 03:34:19 PM
I would not be shocked at all. The ELFE customers are not their target. ADGEX uses the product just to attract more investors. Who would not like to buy shares of a company that sells products working with free energy technology, and that plans developing and sellin big home and industrial generators using the same tech?
That's exactly the point. They can say 'We already have a product in the market' and this will open the pockets of at least some 'dumb money' people.
Quote from: e2matrix on August 29, 2015, 09:01:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VYC8K77MSc)
http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe (http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe)
I have no association with them - just found the video of it on youtube. Great way to help the planet and stop toxic throw away battery pollution.
An interesting invention. But, this particular computer is filtered against YouTube videos as a software blockage. My question is: Does anyone own one of these flashlights and is there a way to reverse-engineer one?
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on February 25, 2016, 07:08:54 PMMy question is: Does anyone own one of these flashlights and is there a way to reverse-engineer one?
No need for reverse engineering. You can buy such flashlight in any supermarket for $2
Quote from: txt on February 25, 2016, 07:17:52 PM
No need for reverse engineering. You can buy such flashlight in any supermarket for $2
Well, the Ad that went with the promo info said $99, American, each. That's what I saw. As for reverse-engineering, the electronic engineer in my heart is intrigued by something that small that can produce light in effective quantities. Now, from my experience, I'd power something with long-wire ambience harvesting with a step-down transformer, to a diode(s) and then to a capacitor; finally to a rechargeable battery.
Now, for this application, the wire needs to be FINE. I mean 45-50+ ga. 50+ would be better. The transformer can easily be mounted on a PC board. It needn't be very powerful, depending upon the power draw of the illumination bulb source. Ditto for the capacitor, in voltage or capacitance capacity. No battery. The light bulb can be based on the LED, which can possibly(?) low power or low current type(s).
In this way, by my personal experience, I see how this item can be built to provide performance on at least a minimum level. IMHO.
Honestly. Nothing against the character of "txt", the originator of this text message I quoted. I'm living in a rather stressful environment with homeless US Military Vets, and these guys can be a bit much to put up with. I try not to insinuate an 'attitude' into my posted replies, but the ones I live with can put more pressure than I ever could and it can rub off, so to speak.
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on February 25, 2016, 08:05:52 PM
Well, the Ad that went with the promo info said $99, American, each. That's what I saw. As for reverse-engineering, the electronic engineer in my heart is intrigued by something that small that can produce light in effective quantities. Now, from my experience, I'd power something with long-wire ambience harvesting with a step-down transformer, to a diode(s) and then to a capacitor; finally to a rechargeable battery.
Now, for this application, the wire needs to be FINE. I mean 45-50+ ga. 50+ would be better. The transformer can easily be mounted on a PC board. It needn't be very powerful, depending upon the power draw of the illumination bulb source. Ditto for the capacitor, in voltage or capacitance capacity. No battery. The light bulb can be based on the LED, which can possibly(?) low power or low current type(s).
In this way, by my personal experience, I see how this item can be built to provide performance on at least a minimum level. IMHO.
Honestly. Nothing against the character of "txt", the originator of this text message I quoted. I'm living in a rather stressful environment with homeless US Military Vets, and these guys can be a bit much to put up with. I try not to insinuate an 'attitude' into my posted replies, but the ones I live with can put more pressure than I ever could and it can rub off, so to speak.
--Lee
Lee:
Have you not followed the testing results on these units? They do NOT work as advertised and, as TXT said, you can buy a $2 light at any store that performs just as well. It is a rip-off...scam...fantasy....
Bill
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 25, 2016, 09:26:10 PM
Lee:
Have you not followed the testing results on these units? They do NOT work as advertised and, as TXT said, you can buy a $2 light at any store that performs just as well. It is a rip-off...scam...fantasy....
Bill
Agree I think it is time we moved this one to the scam column but the concept has peaked my interest a little bit. Build a flashlight that will run for up to 3 hours a day and never go flat.
I think this is a interesting challenge with a lot of potential solutions.
Quote from: Nink on February 25, 2016, 09:29:57 PMI think this is a interesting challenge with a lot of potential solutions.
There may be some solutions, but EM energy harvesting is certainly not one of them, as long as you do not want to use any huge external antennas. The density of the available ambient EM energy is simply far too low in the average environment, including urban areas (let alone remote rural locations).
In urban environment (sample data taken in Tokyo and London), the ambient RF levels (all frequencies combined - FM, analogue and digital TV, wifi, ...) range between 0.2 nW/cm² and 1 μW/cm² (source: Ambient RF Energy-Harvesting Technologies (http://users.ece.gatech.edu/etentze/Procs14_Sangkil.pdf)). It would be even many orders of magnitude less for the Earth Magnetic field or Schumann resonances. For powering a 3 W torch for 3 hours a day (9 Wh), you'd need the charging power of ~400 mW. At a torch with the total surface of some 50 cm² and 100% efficiency, you'd get between 10 nW and 50 μW from the ambient EM field - that is four to six orders of magnitude less than you need. You'd need to collect the EM energy from 40 m² to ~200,000 m² to reach your goal.
Harvesting solar energy is a bit easier, but also not really realistic at those dimensions. Assuming you get ~10 hours of really strong light a day, and high grade solar cells, you may be able to harvest perhaps 2 kWh/m² = 0.2 Wh/cm² (that's irrealistically high in most situations, but let's count with that number). So for the 9 Wh, you need solar cells facing the sun with the surface of 45 cm² - that's already a bit closer to the dimensions of a common flashlight, but it would still need a rather bulky design. And in real world conditions, the surface area would need to be an order of magnitude larger, meaning you would need an external solar charger anyway.
Quote from: txt on February 26, 2016, 02:38:34 AM
There may be some solutions, but EM energy harvesting is certainly not one of them, as long as you do not want to use any huge external antennas. The density of the available ambient EM energy is simply far too low in the average environment, including urban areas (let alone remote rural locations).
In urban environment (sample data taken in Tokyo and London), the ambient RF levels (all frequencies combined - FM, analogue and digital TV, wifi, ...) range between 0.2 nW/cm² and 1 μW/cm² (source: Ambient RF Energy-Harvesting Technologies (http://users.ece.gatech.edu/etentze/Procs14_Sangkil.pdf)). It would be even many orders of magnitude less for the Earth Magnetic field or Schumann resonances. For powering a 3 W torch for 3 hours a day (9 Wh), you'd need the charging power of ~400 mW. At a torch with the total surface of some 50 cm² and 100% efficiency, you'd get between 10 nW and 50 μW from the ambient EM field - that is four to six orders of magnitude less than you need. You'd need to collect the EM energy from 40 m² to ~200,000 m² to reach your goal.
Harvesting solar energy is a bit easier, but also not really realistic at those dimensions. Assuming you get ~10 hours of really strong light a day, and high grade solar cells, you may be able to harvest perhaps 2 kWh/m² = 0.2 Wh/cm² (that's irrealistically high in most situations, but let's count with that number). So for the 9 Wh, you need solar cells facing the sun with the surface of 45 cm² - that's already a bit closer to the dimensions of a common flashlight, but it would still need a rather bulky design. And in real world conditions, the surface area would need to be an order of magnitude larger, meaning you would need an external solar charger anyway.
Hi txt
I am not sure if it is a single solution here or we have to limit ourselves to the "method" that ELFE stated. I think the task is can we for <=$99 build a torch that meets the 3 hour a day requirement and not necessarily limit ourselves to a single self charging solution. I think we are going to need a variety of energy harvesting technology to make this work. You mentioned solar and EM harvesting as two options and these of course could be combined but could we also look at forms of energy harvesting, example peltier devices that use temperature difference (heat of bulb when running, internal temp versus external). Humidity harvesting that flex when moist and contract when dry. I think if we give this a lot of thought we could come up with a variety of methods. Energy optimization such as supercapacitors and Joule theifs etc could be deployed.
I am not sure it would be a pretty solution or if we could do this the size of a typical flash light but I think we could first accomplish the 3 hour a day goal and then start to shrink this down to size of a flashlight we would eventually reach the point where it is possible. At that point we could start to scale back up again, come up with solid state devices that combine all of the required energy harvesting into a single module (solar EM peltier humidity .... )
I am pretty sure if someone through a large bucket of money at this a 3 hour environment charging flashlight would be doable in 3 - 5 years and a 24 hour always on in light in 5 to 10 years.
Even if you combine all those methods together, you won't get far. All besides solar and thermal is orders of magnitude lower, so it makes no sense combining it, making complex devices - it will be more cost effective focusing on increasing the efficiency of solar. Other sources of energy like acoustic, moisture, etc. will give you equally incredibly low levels of energy - check out the document I linked above - acoustic energy is also somewhere in the range of nW/cm³.
Thermal energy could be a bit more interesting, if you can get good temperature gradient, but that's not really attractive solution either. Recently I saw an article about a kid who constructed a hollow flashlight with the body made of Peltier cells. It is powered by the heat of the hand, cooled by air inside. The power you can get is miserable though, and it uses just a low power LED.
Miniaturizing is nonsense at energy harvesting, because the smaller you make the device, the less energy is available. You need to make the devices huge. You cannot extract more energy from the environment than there is available.
A supercapacitor does not generate energy. It is just an energy storage (similar to batteries). Joule thief does not generate energy either, it just dims the LED by impulses, so it draws less power. It does not add any power, it takes it away. If you want a more detailed explanation, have a look at this video, it is really funny: https://youtu.be/hoqF3gjLIyI
test,just wanted a link here.
Thermal energy could be a bit more interesting, if you can get good temperature gradient, but that's not really attractive solution either. Recently I saw an article about a kid who constructed a hollow flashlight with the body made of Peltier cells. It is powered by the heat of the hand, cooled by air inside. The power you can get is miserable though, and it uses just a low power LED. You go TXT !This is the wave of the future!triffid
Peltier cells consist of different metals but with different semiconductors the effect is greatly enhanced!
THERMAL ENERGY COMES UP THROUGH THE EARTH AT THE RATE OF 27 MILLWATTS PER SQUARE METER PER SECOND.Thats about 1/40 watt per second.No one seems to want to tap into that!triffid
Txt Like you I am bound by the laws of physics. I am not for one minute, suggesting as you pointed out in your video that we try to do the impossible and I am fully aware of the functions and purpose of capacitors and a joule thief (hence I refereed to them energy optimization and not harvesting)
If you asked Edison to create an LED 140 years ago he would have handed you an incandescent light bulb but 140 years later we can produce the same amount of light at a fraction of size and power consumption.
Could I build a device that lights an LED from EM today, Absolutely I just need a really large antenna to capture the energy, a capacitor to store the energy a joule thief to pulse the supply. EASY. Could I make it the size of a flash light. NO
But that is where it gets interesting. What if the antenna wasn't made from copper but was made from graphene, could it be multi layered and dense enough to be omni directional and also pick up other forms energy from a much smaller wavelength, what if the device was made from a piezoelectric material could I harvest vibrations or acoustic wavelengths. What if my solar cells were made from ceramics that also acted as peliters but were coated with a sodium silicate and captured moisture then used the evapaorative cooling effect, what if ....
I DON'T KNOW, but these and one million other questions are worth experimenting and find out
We are going to need IoT devices that work in all environments from the darkest caves to the bottom of the ocean and if we decide we should just focus on Solar alone as an energy source we will be left in the dark.
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on February 25, 2016, 07:08:54 PM
An interesting invention. But, this particular computer is filtered against YouTube videos as a software blockage. My question is: Does anyone own one of these flashlights and is there a way to reverse-engineer one?
--Lee
My request for a wiring schematic still stands, though. Does anyone have one or, as I suggested, get one by reverse engineering it?
The precise arguments, for or against, the construction and perceived performance exactness can be probably be better ascertained by an accurate schematic.
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on February 26, 2016, 05:30:52 PM
My request for a wiring schematic still stands, though. Does anyone have one or, as I suggested, get one by reverse engineering it?
The precise arguments, for or against, the construction and perceived performance exactness can be probably be better ascertained by an accurate schematic.
3 * 1.5v batteries in series a switch and an LED. I would draw you a schematic but I can't find my crayons.
Indeed, and I am going to take a wild guess: If you buy an "expensive" LED flashlight that costs $20 or $30, it contains a high-efficiency voltage-to-current converter, so that you can keep the LED flashlight at the same brightness and control the power consumption of the device as the battery voltage changes. Hey, it might even make the LED flash at a high rate so you can save more power and it may even give you give you two brightness (LED current) settings.
Or, for a hundred bucks you can buy a Chinese Dollar-store flashlight that costs $1.664 in volume without the super high tech voltage-to-current converter.
Quote from: Nink on February 26, 2016, 02:09:01 PMWhat if the antenna wasn't made from copper but was made from graphene,
You can perhaps make the antenna more efficient, but you still cannot harvest more than the energy that is actually available. So if there are 10 nW/cm² of ambient EM energy, with antenna efficiency of 90% instead of 60%, you get 9 nW instead of 6 nW, but it will still not recharge your battery.
Quote from: txt on February 26, 2016, 06:06:54 PM
You can perhaps make the antenna more efficient, but you still cannot harvest more than the energy that is actually available. So if there are 10 nW/cm² of ambient EM energy, with antenna efficiency of 90% instead of 60%, you get 9 nW instead of 6 nW, but it will still not recharge your battery.
Only good for the Whos down in Whoville.
Quote from: MileHigh on February 26, 2016, 06:11:14 PM
Only good for the Whos down in Whoville.
Fahoo Doray.
I have always wanted to say that.
Bill
Well it is indeed possible to make a self charging torch,although it would have to be a little more efficient than my setup. But non the less,it dose work,and dose self charge. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx3bpSKRuF0
Brad
Quote from: tinman on February 27, 2016, 01:40:54 AMWell it is indeed possible to make a self charging torch,although it would have to be a little more efficient than my setup. But non the less,it dose work,and dose self charge. ;)
Of course, if you do not mind running around with a football-stadium-sized device, everything can be done.
Quote from: txt on February 27, 2016, 03:35:38 AM
Of course, if you do not mind running around with a football-stadium-sized device, everything can be done.
That was a 25 farad cap,and a very small antenna. If the antenna was around the outside of the torch body,along with a better circuit,you could charge a 1.5 volt battery within 5 hour's i would think,and get back 1/2 an hour of usable light.
It would all depend on the EM strength in the area you are in.
I would think out in the middle of nowhere,it would not work so well.
Brad
First of all you have a coil there and we cannot know whether it did not pull the power from a nearby emitter, or simply from the EM field radiated by some wires running along, which is very likely. Take it to the backyard, to the street, or to a park, for a slightly more objective measuring. Then, if I understood correctly, you measured 0.175V at 0.003A - that gives the charging power of 525μW. For charging a single 1.5V cell (~3Wh), you would need 5700 hours (~8 months). For charging three AA cells and powering a 3W/120lm LED at full power during 3 hours (9Wh), you would need to charge the batteries during two full years. And that's only under the condition, that we ignore the limited efficiency of the charging, and the internal leakage of the batteries. Otherwise you would likely never finish.
author=txt link=topic=16003.msg475696#msg475696 date=1456567051]
First of all you have a coil there and we cannot know whether it did not pull the power from a nearby emitter, or simply from the EM field radiated by some wires running along, which is very likely. Take it to the backyard, to the street, or to a park, for a slightly more objective measuring. Then, if I understood correctly, you measured 0.175V at 0.003A - that gives the charging power of 525μW. For charging a single 1.5V cell (~3Wh), you would need 5700 hours (~8 months). For charging three AA cells and powering a 3W/120lm LED at full power during 3 hours (9Wh), you would need to charge the batteries during two full years. And that's only under the condition, that we ignore the limited efficiency of the charging, and the internal leakage of the batteries. Otherwise you would likely never finish.
Well i dont know what video you were watching Jr,but the whole recharging system dose work on pulling in the energy from emitted EM waves from a nearby radio station--so what's your point?.
QuoteThen, if I understood correctly, you measured 0.175V at 0.003A - that gives the charging power of 525μW. For charging a single 1.5V cell (~3Wh),
No,the system was drawing 3mA @ .175 volt's--that was not the charging current.
Quote from: tinman on February 27, 2016, 01:40:54 AM
Well it is indeed possible to make a self charging torch,although it would have to be a little more efficient than my setup. But non the less,it dose work,and dose self charge. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx3bpSKRuF0
Brad
@Tinman As usual you took the easy way out and resorted to actually building a circuit testing it and making a video proving something is possible, when you could have focused on endless debates, conjecture and just making stuff up like everyone else here does.
Great work as always :-)
Harvesting man-made EM energy would be no 'free energy' anyway, because someone paid for the energy which powers the transmitter, and the RF field is weakened by sucking energy out of it so the receiver will need more energy to maintain the same field strength.
Quote from: tinman on February 27, 2016, 08:59:59 AMNo,the system was drawing 3mA @ .175 volt's--that was not the charging current.
If the system delivers 3mA @ 0.175V, it gives exactly 525μW, just as I wrote. So where is your higher charging power coming from, if not from the system? From another external battery? From the grid? From the Holy Ghost?
Quote from: Nink on February 27, 2016, 10:36:02 AM
@Tinman As usual you took the easy way out and resorted to actually building a circuit testing it and making a video proving something is possible, when you could have focused on endless debates, conjecture and just making stuff up like everyone else here does.
I must be blind, but I saw no proof in that video that charging a battery in any interesting levels in average environment is possible. Did you? As I wrote, at the charging power of 525μW, you'd need two years (in the very best case) to recharge the 3 AA cells.
I have measured the voltage of the almost completely empty batteries:
#1: 1063 mV
#2: 1216 mV
#3: 800 mV, slowly increasing
Nice! Now it might be interesting to open the batteries and compare them to common NiMH batteries. Not that I would expect anything else, but just to be sure. Note: you'll need some protective gear if you decide doing so.
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 12:00:36 PM
Nice! Now it might be interesting to open the batteries and compare them to common NiMH batteries. Not that I would expect anything else, but just to be sure. Note: you'll need some protective gear if you decide doing so.
I don't expect any additional information from opening the batteries. I don't have a chemical lab to analyze the contents, and simply looking at it doesn't make much sense.
Additionally, in case they will offer a refund, this would not be possible after destroying anything.
Even if there would be anything special with the batteries, it might be impossible to detect this even by analyzing it chemically.
Example: If you would analyze p- and n-doped silicon you also would not recognize any difference, unless you precisely know for what you have to look. ;)
Standard NiMH batteries do not contain any silicon wafers, antennas, coils, circuits, or other electronics that ADGEX tries to make us believe they contain to receive wirelessly the energy from the "resonator". So by opening the battery and finding the same content as in ordinary NiMH batteries, the manipulative maneuvering of ADGEX would be seriously limited.
Of course, I'd expect you doing it only in case ADGEX refuses the refund, or offers the refund without asking you to send back the flashlight.
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 12:22:47 PM
Standard NiMH batteries do not contain any silicon wafers, antennas, coils, circuits, or other electronics that ADGEX tries to make us believe they contain to receive wirelessly the energy from the "resonator". So by opening the battery and finding the same content as in ordinary NiMH batteries, the manipulative maneuvering of ADGEX would be seriously limited.
I never expected the 'batteries' containing any circuitry of any kind, because this would make absolutely no sense in an open circuit.
The only possibility would have been an accumulator with some special chemistry, but this would look like any other accumulator.
But in general, reverse engineering only makes sense for a working device.
I does not really matter what you expected. I always expected it was nothing else than a regular $2 torch with ordinary batteries. It also does not matter. The only thing that matters are the claims of the inventor, and if we can show the evidence proving them wrong, it will be easier to persecute them, and to have the suspected scam stopped by relevant authorities.
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 12:45:37 PM
I does not really matter what you expected. I always expected it was nothing else than a regular $2 torch with ordinary batteries. It also does not matter. The only thing that matters are the claims of the inventor, and if we can show the evidence proving them wrong, it will be easier to persecute them, and to have the suspected scam stopped by relevant authorities.
The only relevant evidence is IF it works or not, and not WHY it works or not.
Quote from: skywatcher on February 28, 2016, 12:51:36 PM
The only relevant evidence is IF it works or not, and not WHY it works or not.
No, I permit myself to disagree. The evidence that it does not work, is not the evidence of the intent, of the fraud. It's just the evidence of the failure that may be accidental or can have construction or manufacturing reasons. If we find physical evidence in contradiction with the claims of ADGEX about the construction or functioning of the flashlight, there is a better chance to have the suspected scam stopped. If we cannot show any such evidence, the chances are slim.
Quote from: txt on February 27, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
I must be blind, but I saw no proof in that video that charging a battery in any interesting levels in average environment is possible. Did you? As I wrote, at the charging power of 525μW, you'd need two years (in the very best case) to recharge the 3 AA cells.
There was no proof at all.
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 01:01:57 PM
No, I permit myself to disagree. The evidence that it does not work, is not the evidence of the intent, of the fraud. It's just the evidence of the failure that may be accidental or can have construction or manufacturing reasons. If we find physical evidence in contradiction with the claims of ADGEX about the construction or functioning of the flashlight, there is a better chance to have the suspected scam stopped. If we cannot show any such evidence, the chances are slim.
They never claimed that there is some special circuitry inside the flashlight. They only claim *that* it will recharge itself, but not *how*.
On their website they say: "You will never need to purchase any batteries for ELFE. You simply turn him off and the Adgex Accumulator will recharge ELFEs energy levels to full."
So what is the 'Adgex Accumulator' ? We can find 3 accumulators inside.
I think the evidence that it does not recharge is sufficient, especially if this is the case for all customers, so they can not say these are single cases or 'dead zones'.
We don't know of any ELFE which recharged itself to full brightness, but we know of many which failed to recharge.
You will never need to purchase any batteries for ELFE. You simply turn him off and the Adgex Accumulator will recharge ELFEs energy levels to full. - See more at: http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe#sthash.8xk5ZUqx.dpufYou will never need to purchase any batteries for ELFE. You simply turn him off and the Adgex Accumulator will recharge ELFEs energy levels to full. - See more at: http://trade.adgex.com.au/elfe#sthash.8xk5ZUqx.dpuf
You know, they could actually market these flashlights as "Dead Zone Locating Devices".
So, when a customer's light does not recharge they can claim that the device works as claimed.
Of course, no one may want to pay $100 for a dead zone locating device...
Bill
Skywatcher, you are mistaken again. In their presentation video they clearly claimed the flashlight body is a "resonator" feeding the energy through the "converter" (the LED holder), to the "special batteries". I believe that in earlier presentations they even claimed the flashlight has no batteries at all, but I would have to go back and watch all the crap again, which I have no appetite for, right now.
They can explain the fact that it does not work in many possible ways - from dead zones, over incorrect usage, malfunctioning, to a manufacturing problem. The nonfunctional flashlight may be good enough for getting a refund, but it is not good enough to have them persecuted for a scam, and especially it is absolutely insufficient for stopping them to sell shares for tens of millions of dollars, and to have the Australian chamber of commerce terminating their licence. Having any hard evidence directly opposing the recorded claims of ADGEX may be sufficient for triggering an investigation by the Australian authorities.
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 01:27:26 PM
Skywatcher, you are mistaken again. In their presentation video they claimed the flashlight body is a "resonator" feeding the energy through the "converter" (the LED holder), to the "special batteries".
My ELFE contains all the parts they showed in their video. So what does this prove ?
QuoteI believe that in earlier presentations they even claimed the flashlight has no batteries at all, but I would have to go back and watch all the crap again, which I have no appetite for, right now.
The quote from my posting above ('Adgex Accumulator') was on their website from the beginning.
QuoteThey can explain the fact that it does not work in many possible ways - from dead zones, over incorrect usage, malfunctioning, to a manufacturing problem. The nonfunctional flashlight may be good enough for getting a refund, but it is not good enough to have them persecuted for a scam, and especially it is absolutely insufficient for stopping them to sell shares for tens of millions of dollars, and to have the Australian chamber of commerce terminating their licence. Having any hard evidence directly opposing the recorded claims of ADGEX may be sufficient for triggering an investigation by the Australian authorities.
Let's say you buy a car, and the manufacturer specifies some data for maximum speed, acceleration, fuel consumption etc. You receive the car and it doesn't work at all. You look inside, and you see that it has no motor at all. I this case, this would be evidence for a fraud, because everyone knows that a car has to contain a motor. Why do we know this ? Because a car is known technology. But in case of 'exotic' technology like a self-recharging flashlight (which is not possible with known technology) we don't know what it has to contain because we don't know how it should work. We can not completely rule out that it might be possible to make an accumulator which looks like any other accumulator, but has the ability to self-recharge. So they could say that they supplied these self-recharging accumulators to the manufacturer but he accidently used some others for building the flashlights.
IMO regarding new and 'exotic' technologies you can only make judgements based on experimental evidence (like we did) but not based on knowledge based on known technology.
Or like Arthur C. Clarke said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." 8)
Quote from: Pirate88179 on February 25, 2016, 09:26:10 PM
Lee:
Have you not followed the testing results on these units? They do NOT work as advertised and, as TXT said, you can buy a $2 light at any store that performs just as well. It is a rip-off...scam...fantasy....
Bill
Well, okay, but what I was thinking about was, something like this...
http://www.next.gr/uploads/500-2edd6bea91.png (http://www.next.gr/uploads/500-2edd6bea91.png)
...with an power input source like this...
http://www.hamuniverse.com/endfedrandlongwire.GIF (http://www.hamuniverse.com/endfedrandlongwire.GIF)
...by that I mean an output to a light-producing-type of bulb with a long, one-wire input. Be aware that the bulb is the equivalent of an LED---ultra bright AND distinctly low power being highly preferable. As well as outputted power being, say, .01 to .1 W.
ADDED NOTE:
This source might be fairly typical?
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9590 (https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9590)
At 2V and 20mA, the power used is .04W.
I'll simply say that getting that small a power source into an average sized flashlight the way I just described and that I have experience with---(long wire with diode(s)---is impossible the way I showed it, and I'm the first to say it myself. If this IS impossible, I'd like to see a representative schematic of the thing to verify this.
I agree with the nay-sayers.
--Lee
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 01:01:57 PM
I must be blind, but I saw no proof in that video that charging a battery in any interesting levels in average environment is possible. Did you? As I wrote, at the charging power of 525μW, you'd need two years (in the very best case) to recharge the 3 AA cells.
Txt I must have missed something. Where on earth did the requirement come from to charge 3 AA cells. The requirement was to light an LED using harvested energy. @Tinman video proved that was possible. If you want to charge 3 AA batteries, buy a battery charger.
Quote from: Nink on February 28, 2016, 04:19:04 PM
Txt I must have missed something. Where on earth did the requirement come from to charge 3 AA cells. The requirement was to light an LED using harvested energy. @Tinman video proved that was possible. If you want to charge 3 AA batteries, buy a battery charger.
I believe you did miss something because Brad said this:
QuoteThat was a 25 farad cap,and a very small antenna. If the antenna was around the outside of the torch body,along with a better circuit,you could charge a 1.5 volt battery within 5 hour's i would think,and get back 1/2 an hour of usable light.
It would all depend on the EM strength in the area you are in.
I would think out in the middle of nowhere,it would not work so well.
There is not a hope in hell that you could get back 1/2 hour of usable light if you lived about five or six kilometers from an AM broadcast station transmitting antenna if the charging power is somewhere in the vicinity of 525 microwatts. How many people live close to broadcast antennas anyway?
The important lesson here is to do your calculations.
Quote from: txt on February 27, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
If the system delivers 3mA @ 0.175V, it gives exactly 525μW, just as I wrote. So where is your higher charging power coming from, if not from the system? From another external battery? From the grid? From the Holy Ghost?
I must be blind, but I saw no proof in that video that charging a battery in any interesting levels in average environment is possible. Did you? As I wrote, at the charging power of 525μW, you'd need two years (in the very best case) to recharge the 3 AA cells.
You are blind,as i was not claiming to be able to charge 3 AA batteries with the circuit i showed. My claim was that it is indeed possible to harvest energy from EM wave's,store that collected energy,and light an LED. Harvesting energy from EM wave's has been done for many year's--E.G,the foxhole radio. I also never made the claim that the device in question on this thread was legit,only that it is possible to have a battery/storage device recharge it self by way of available EM radiation in the environment.
You also make the mistake in assuming that the light would be on for 2 1/2 years in order to require that 2 1/2 year recharge cycle at that power draw,if we assume the system is 100% efficient-and where did you come up with 525uW as the charging power from my video?.
Brad
Quote from: MileHigh on February 28, 2016, 04:28:55 PM
I believe you did miss something because Brad said this:
There is not a hope in hell that you could get back 1/2 hour of usable light if you lived about five or six kilometers from an AM broadcast station transmitting antenna if the charging power is somewhere in the vicinity of 525 microwatts. How many people live close to broadcast antennas anyway?
Once again-same mistake as txt-->where do you guys get 525uW charging power from ?.
How have you calculated a 525uW charging output from something never made or tested?
I stated-If the antenna was around the outside of the torch body,along with a better circuit,you could charge a 1.5 volt battery within 5 hour's i would think,and get back 1/2 an hour of usable light.
MH,can you please tell us all how you have managed to calculate the charging power of a device that has not yet been made?,or how you have determined what usable light is?.
QuoteThe important lesson here is to do your calculations.
Indeed.
If i can store a continual energy flow of 1/2 a mW for 5 hour's,then i can drive an LED with 5mW of power for 1/2 an hour from that stored energy-if we assume the system is 100% efficient. At an efficiency of say 90%(very possible),we could deliver 4.5mW for 1/2 an hour to our LED. Are you saying that we would not be able to produce usable light from this ?.
It pays to think before dismissing things that have not even yet come into existence MH.
Brad
@tinman: Everyone knows it is possible to harvest energy from the ambient EM field. I posted already ~15 pages ago a link to the document Ambient RF Energy-Harvesting Technologies (http://users.ece.gatech.edu/etentze/Procs14_Sangkil.pdf). If you read its title, you may understand that it speaks exactly about that even if you do not bother opening it. And you can be also quite sure that I know what is in it. Your video only confirms what is stated in the document and what I am claiming in this thread since the page #12 - at this size, no useful energy can be harvested from the average ambient EM field for powering a device like the ELFE battery. That's what this thread is about. The ELFE battery is powered by 3 AA batteries and has the maximum output of 3W.
Your video showing a dim LED powered by ~500µW is useless, laughable and it only confirms what I wrote and what I claim since the beginning. You would need two years of charging for being able to power a 3W LED flashlight for three hours at full power. Lighting up a LED at ~500µW is four orders of magnitude below the needed power, and there you are lucky you are close to a radio transmitter, otherwise it would be even much worse.
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 06:40:48 PM
@tinman: Everyone knows it is possible to harvest energy from the ambient EM field. I posted already ~15 pages ago a link to the document Ambient RF Energy-Harvesting Technologies (http://users.ece.gatech.edu/etentze/Procs14_Sangkil.pdf). If you read its title, you may understand that it speaks exactly about that even if you do not bother opening it. And you can be also quite sure that I know what is in it. Your video only confirms what is stated in the document and what I am claiming in this thread since the page #12 - at this size, no useful energy can be harvested from the average ambient EM field for powering a device like the ELFE battery. That's what this thread is about. The ELFE battery is powered by 3 AA batteries and has the maximum output of 3W.
Your video showing a dim LED powered by ~500µW is useless, laughable and it only confirms what I wrote and what I claim since the beginning. You would need two years of charging for being able to power a 3W LED flashlight for three hours at full power. Lighting up a LED at ~500µW is four orders of magnitude below the needed power, and there you are lucky you are close to a radio transmitter, otherwise it would be even much worse.
Also known as.....
The Dead Zone.
Bill
PS I just like saying that. It sounds so ominous.
Quote from: tinman on February 28, 2016, 06:30:04 PM
Once again-same mistake as txt-->where do you guys get 525uW charging power from ?.
How have you calculated a 525uW charging output from something never made or tested?
I stated-If the antenna was around the outside of the torch body,along with a better circuit,you could charge a 1.5 volt battery within 5 hour's i would think,and get back 1/2 an hour of usable light.
MH,can you please tell us all how you have managed to calculate the charging power of a device that has not yet been made?,or how you have determined what usable light is?.
Indeed.
If i can store a continual energy flow of 1/2 a mW for 5 hour's,then i can drive an LED with 5mW of power for 1/2 an hour from that stored energy-if we assume the system is 100% efficient. At an efficiency of say 90%(very possible),we could deliver 4.5mW for 1/2 an hour to our LED. Are you saying that we would not be able to produce usable light from this ?.
It pays to think before dismissing things that have not even yet come into existence MH.
Brad
I can estimate the charging power of something that hasn't been made because I looked at some of the information that Txt provided for the energy density that you can get from various forms of ambient electromagnetic energy in the environment. I already had an intuitive sense for this before even looking at the data. I also know that even a few kilometers away from an AM transmission tower the amount of energy you could pick up is negligible. You also stated, "1/2 an hour of usable light." Usable light is a few watts like in an LED flashlight, not five milliwatts. That's a bait and switch.
You are the one that isn't thinking because you made the claim presumably without making any reasonable estimates or crunching any numbers. So I am sounding out a cautionary note just like Txt. You
can think about how much power could theoretically without building it.
And the root meaning in your comments go right back to the ADGEX pitch. They made ridiculous claims about picking up EM energy and the laughable Schumann resonance energy and the laughable claim of picking up energy from the Earth's magnetic field. They claimed something that was physically impossible and you claimed something that was physically impossible. The takeaway for everyone should be to understand the issues because as sure as the sun shines in X number of months somebody will be trying to sell something by making similar claims.
MileHigh
Quote from: txt on February 28, 2016, 06:40:48 PM
@tinman: Everyone knows it is possible to harvest energy from the ambient EM field. I posted already ~15 pages ago a link to the document Ambient RF Energy-Harvesting Technologies (http://users.ece.gatech.edu/etentze/Procs14_Sangkil.pdf). If you read its title, you may understand that it speaks exactly about that even if you do not bother opening it. And you can be also quite sure that I know what is in it. Your video only confirms what is stated in the document and what I am claiming in this thread since the page #12 - at this size, no useful energy can be harvested from the average ambient EM field for powering a device like the ELFE battery. That's what this thread is about. The ELFE battery is powered by 3 AA batteries and has the maximum output of 3W.
Your video showing a dim LED powered by ~500µW is useless, laughable and it only confirms what I wrote and what I claim since the beginning. You would need two years of charging for being able to power a 3W LED flashlight for three hours at full power. Lighting up a LED at ~500µW is four orders of magnitude below the needed power, and there you are lucky you are close to a radio transmitter, otherwise it would be even much worse.
Post 168- Quote: The ambient EM field in standard wavelengths is much stronger - it allows harvesting up to units of μW per cm³ in densely populated urban environment.
txt
I think your a bit out of whack with your power calculations in regards to EM radiation around densely populated area's. Lets look at the video below,and lets assume his antenna is say 20 meters long(around 60 feet),and is say .4mm copper wire.So we would have an antenna with a square area of around 8cm. Now looking at that LED,and also taking into consideration that a speaker is also being driven,we can clearly see that there is a fair bit of EM energy being collected by a very small square area of antenna wire. There is also the fact that the bulk of the population lives in an area that has many strong EM radiation sources. So now lets take the circuit used in the video,and store the energy that is being used to drive the LED and the speaker. Do you really think it will take 2 years to charge 3 AA batteries with the energy that is being used to drive the LED and speaker?-i think not.
Im not saying the ELFE is lagit-nor have i ever said that. What i am saying is,it is indeed possible to achieve the required result's ,with the available EM radiation in most cases. The video clearly show's that usable light can come directly from the EM radiation-without the need to store that energy. If we were to store that energy over a period of 24 hour's,then even more usable light over a shorter period of time could be had.
You have far under estimated the available energy per square CM of EM radiation in populated area's,where we can safely assume there is 1 or more sources of strong EM radiation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcui0K7JZXA
Brad
author=MileHigh link=topic=16003.msg475854#msg475854 date=1456707059]
MileHigh
QuoteI can estimate the charging power of something that hasn't been made because I looked at some of the information that Txt provided for the energy density that you can get from various forms of ambient electromagnetic energy in the environment. I already had an intuitive sense for this before even looking at the data. I also know that even a few kilometers away from an AM transmission tower the amount of energy you could pick up is negligible.
Well you better think again--see last post of mine to txt.
QuoteYou also stated, "1/2 an hour of usable light." Usable light is a few watts like in an LED flashlight, not five milliwatts. That's a bait and switch.
Since when did you become the one to decide what amount of light is usable?.
If i can read the words on a page in a book,then that is usable light--regardless of what you may think. If i place my little red LED (as seen in last video) that consumes only 500uW of power,next to a light switch in my home,and in the dark i can see that red LED,and that red LED shows me where the light switch is,then that is usable light,as it guided me to the light switch in a dark room.
QuoteYou are the one that isn't thinking because you made the claim presumably without making any reasonable estimates or crunching any numbers. So I am sounding out a cautionary note just like Txt. You can think about how much power could theoretically without building it.
I base my assumptions around things already achieved by other's--unlike yourself,where you blindly follow what others say,and present in book's.-->this is becoming a habit of your MH.
QuoteAnd the root meaning in your comments go right back to the ADGEX pitch. They made ridiculous claims about picking up EM energy and the laughable Schumann resonance energy and the laughable claim of picking up energy from the Earth's magnetic field. They claimed something that was physically impossible and you claimed something that was physically impossible.
My root meaning MH,was that it is achievable,and has been done by others.
Once again,you have jumped on the band wagon without doing much research-and got it all wrong again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcui0K7JZXA
Brad
Quote from: skywatcher on February 27, 2016, 04:53:13 PM
Harvesting man-made EM energy would be no 'free energy' anyway, because someone paid for the energy which powers the transmitter, and the RF field is weakened by sucking energy out of it so the receiver will need more energy to maintain the same field strength.
This is not correct. There is no connection between the transmitter and receiver of regular radio or TV signals. It doesn't matter how many receivers receive the signal the transmitter doesn't see any difference. Think of it this way. You are standing in the middle of a small pond and you rock back and forth to make waves in the water. Now someone decides to harvest a little of that energy by sitting a model boat in the water and they get to watch it rock back and forth because of the waves you are making. If we add another hundred people and they each put a boat in the water you will not be able to tell any difference in your efforts to make waves. Once the waves are made what happens to them after the leave you has no effect at all on your efforts to make waves.
Now if you are talking about sitting up an inductive device near the cross country overhead power lines that is a different thing. Yes I would agree that taking power from the electric field that surrounds those power lines will cause a need for more energy to maintain the field. And people have been convicted of theft in the U.S. for doing that. But an EM field is not the same as a RF field.
Respectfully,
Carroll
Brad:
When you say something like this:
Quotelets assume his antenna is say 20 meters long(around 60 feet),and is say .4mm copper wire.So we would have an antenna with a square area of around 8cm. Now looking at that LED,and also taking into consideration that a speaker is also being driven,we can clearly see that there is a fair bit of EM energy being collected by a very small square area of antenna wire.
And also when you talk about "DC EM waves" you are simply showing that you are pushing your luck and are way way out of your element. It's so bad that it's "not even wrong."
I am no expert here, but I have some knowledge. People like Verpies and Poynt99 are the ones that can shed some real light on this issue. You don't know what you are talking about here. If you have an active interest in this stuff, here is where you need to read some books.
In the clip the guy says that he is about one mile from the transmission tower, and he took a slingshot and launched some fishing line up to the top of a tree. Then he used the fishing line to draw the antenna up to the top of the tree.
Let's say he is one mile away from the transmitter and the antenna is 40 feet long. I suppose under those conditions you can light an LED. But that's a special case, and not even remotely related to your flashlight battery charging scenario at all.
MileHigh
Brad:
This is a link about typical LED flashlight power: http://www.dansdata.com/ledlights2.htm#power (http://www.dansdata.com/ledlights2.htm#power)
The range is from about 0.2 watts to a few watts. So let's divide that by five to give you 40 milliwatts on the low end for a minimalist usable LED light source. I am making what I consider to be a reasonable guess.
QuoteSince when did you become the one to decide what amount of light is usable?.
If i can read the words on a page in a book,then that is usable light--regardless of what you may think. If i place my little red LED (as seen in last video) that consumes only 500uW of power,next to a light switch in my home,and in the dark i can see that red LED,and that red LED shows me where the light switch is,then that is usable light,as it guided me to the light switch in a dark room.
That's a huge stretch and the light switch light is not what the average person would consider a "usable light." You are describing a minimalist nightlight, not a usable light.
Plus, if we're going to get real, then you have to derate any theoretical power that can be picked up by ambient EM waves. By how much? I will be damned if I know so I will say the theoretical numbers should be derated by a factor of 10.
QuoteI base my assumptions around things already achieved by other's--unlike yourself,where you blindly follow what others say,and present in book's.-->this is becoming a habit of your MH.
I am thinking for myself Brad and applying my basic EM knowledge. Your "you only know what is in books" line is getting very tiresome. Your claims of one-half hour of "usable light" are not panning out, that is the real issue up for debate. So here is what is being said to you: If you are going to make an estimate then put your mind to work and work it out first before you make a claim. Nobody wants to say you can't make an estimate or a claim, but you have to think it through first and show your reasoning. Right now you are playing the backtracking game because you didn't think it through. That's the inherent lesson. When you are going to make a statement that is questionable - lay your cards on the table as you make your statement and present your data and reasonable estimates at the same time. It's just the scientific way of approaching things along these lines. Go review Txt's presented data, there is a logical step by step process that determines the amount of ambient EM energy per unit volume, he is not just throwing numbers out there.
MileHigh
Quote from: citfta on February 28, 2016, 09:48:57 PM
This is not correct. There is no connection between the transmitter and receiver of regular radio or TV signals. It doesn't matter how many receivers receive the signal the transmitter doesn't see any difference. Think of it this way. You are standing in the middle of a small pond and you rock back and forth to make waves in the water. Now someone decides to harvest a little of that energy by sitting a model boat in the water and they get to watch it rock back and forth because of the waves you are making. If we add another hundred people and they each put a boat in the water you will not be able to tell any difference in your efforts to make waves. Once the waves are made what happens to them after the leave you has no effect at all on your efforts to make waves.
Now if you are talking about sitting up an inductive device near the cross country overhead power lines that is a different thing. Yes I would agree that taking power from the electric field that surrounds those power lines will cause a need for more energy to maintain the field. And people have been convicted of theft in the U.S. for doing that. But an EM field is not the same as a RF field.
Respectfully,
Carroll
I think it's fair to say that you are both right and wrong. You are right to say that the scenario you are describing is a far-field situation where if you local to yourself soak up some transmitted antenna energy that it does not affect the transmitter at all. Were you are wrong is that presumably other people that are in your "shadow" (assuming an urban area) cannot get good reception of the transmitting station because your harvesting of the EM energy is creating that shadow.
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on February 28, 2016, 09:54:17 PM
Brad:
When you say something like this:
MileHigh
QuoteAnd also when you talk about "DC EM waves" you are simply showing that you are pushing your luck and are way way out of your element. It's so bad that it's "not even wrong."
I am no expert here, but I have some knowledge. People like Verpies and Poynt99 are the ones that can shed some real light on this issue. You don't know what you are talking about here. If you have an active interest in this stuff, here is where you need to read some books.
And yet there it was,clear as day in my video.
Im guessing you are of the belief that the wave offset was due to the cap voltage. Well then all you have to do is now explain as to how the cap was being charged,if you believe the EM wave dose not have a DC offset of it's own.
QuoteIn the clip the guy says that he is about one mile from the transmission tower, and he took a slingshot and launched some fishing line up to the top of a tree. Then he used the fishing line to draw the antenna up to the top of the tree.
Let's say he is one mile away from the transmitter and the antenna is 40 feet long. I suppose under those conditions you can light an LED. But that's a special case, and not even remotely related to your flashlight battery charging scenario at all.
Just go's to show MH,that i am correct in what i stated--that it can be done in most cases-depending on the area you are in.
It also shows that you should have the correct answers before you go saying that some one else has no idea as to what they are talking about--and i refer to answering the question as to why the cap charges if there is no DC offset the EM wave?.
Brad
Any discussion of a "DC offset" in an electromagnetic wave is "not even wrong."
You are correct, the DC offset of the AM wave on your scope display was because of the DC voltage on the capacitor. I don't know how the capacitor got charged. I suppose the two options are somehow the AM wave gets rectified or with more wire in the setup the capacitor can self-charge better.
However, if you suspect that it is from the AM wave being rectified and that's charging the capacitor - talk alone will not cut it. You would need to show an annotated schematic and scope shots and explain the process with a timing diagram if you want to make a convincing case.
Quote from: tinman on February 28, 2016, 09:15:32 PMI think your a bit out of whack with your power calculations in regards to EM radiation around densely populated area's. Lets look at the video below,and lets assume his antenna is say 20 meters long(around 60 feet),and is say .4mm copper wire. So we would have an antenna with a square area of around 8cm.
Check out the term "effective aperture of an antenna" to correct your calculation. When oversimplified, the capture area of antenna is based on the square root of the wavelength (assuming the antenna can catch the entire ½ wave, like for example the dipole). In other words, make a square around your antenna and you'll be a bit closer. Calculating just the wire thickness is nonsense, of course.
BTW, the 20 m long antenna is not something you can run around with anyway, regardless that it is just 0.4 mm thick, so I would not consider it useful for powering a flashlight.
Quote from: tinman on February 28, 2016, 09:15:32 PMDo you really think it will take 2 years to charge 3 AA batteries with the energy that is being used to drive the LED and speaker?
Yes, I do. The math is trivial, and I am sure you can succeed the simple multiplying and divisions too. Your system in the video delivers 0.175V at 0.003A. Power = U*I - that gives the continuous charging power of 525μW. For charging 9Wh you hence need 9/525*10^-6 = 17143 hours = 714 days. Which indeed are two years (or pretty close to it). Without counting in the leakage, the charging efficiency, and the possibility that your nearby radio stops broadcasting over the frequency your antenna is tuned to, within that long time.
Quote from: tinman on February 28, 2016, 09:15:32 PMThe video clearly show's that usable light can come directly from the EM radiation-without the need to store that energy.
I do not consider the charging power of 525μW "usable" for any practical flashlight. It is usable for powering low consumption electronics such as remote sensors, or perhaps even the tiny low power LED as a pilot light, but that was never questioned in this thread. EM harvesting for low consumption devices is known and used since decades, and nobody here ever expressed any doubts about it.
The tiny power is simply not useful for high-powered portable devices such as the 3W flashlight. If the ~70 millilumens that you can get out of 525μW, looks usable for you, then I admire your sight, but I can assure you that anyone who would buy a flashlight, finding it emits a few dozens of millilumens, would be highly disappointed.
Quote from: citfta on February 28, 2016, 09:48:57 PM
This is not correct. There is no connection between the transmitter and receiver of regular radio or TV signals. It doesn't matter how many receivers receive the signal the transmitter doesn't see any difference. Think of it this way. You are standing in the middle of a small pond and you rock back and forth to make waves in the water. Now someone decides to harvest a little of that energy by sitting a model boat in the water and they get to watch it rock back and forth because of the waves you are making. If we add another hundred people and they each put a boat in the water you will not be able to tell any difference in your efforts to make waves. Once the waves are made what happens to them after the leave you has no effect at all on your efforts to make waves.
Now if you are talking about sitting up an inductive device near the cross country overhead power lines that is a different thing. Yes I would agree that taking power from the electric field that surrounds those power lines will cause a need for more energy to maintain the field. And people have been convicted of theft in the U.S. for doing that. But an EM field is not the same as a RF field.
Respectfully,
Carroll
At least in the 'near field' (which is many kilometers in case of low-frequency trabsmitters) you have inductive coupling, and this indeed draws additional power from the transmitter. I know that some decades ago some people here in Germany used wires in their garden to get energy for their fluorescent lamps, which worked pretty well nearby big AM transmitter stations, but this has been forbidden because of the fact that it weakened the signal.
Quote from: tinman on February 28, 2016, 09:15:32 PMYou have far under estimated the available energy per square CM of EM radiation in populated area's,where we can safely assume there is 1 or more sources of strong EM radiation.
In fact I did not estimate anything at all. I used scientific literature that sums the measurements of multiple teams taking real-life values of ambient EM radiation in several locations, including the inner London and Tokyo. They also specify the distances to the closest high-power transmission towers, and they took care to pick up an average location, not something in a shielded area or a "dead-zone". So no, the values I posted are no estimations, they are hard facts.
author=txt link=topic=16003.msg475872#msg475872 date=1456727231]
QuoteBTW, the 20 m long antenna is not something you can run around with anyway, regardless that it is just 0.4 mm thick, so I would not consider it useful for powering a flashlight.
Yes, I do. The math is trivial, and I am sure you can succeed the simple multiplying and divisions too. Your system in the video delivers 0.175V at 0.003A. Power = U*I - that gives the continuous charging power of 525μW. For charging 9Wh you hence need 9/525*10^-6 = 17143 hours = 714 days. Which indeed are two years (or pretty close to it). Without counting in the leakage, the charging efficiency, and the possibility that your nearby radio stops broadcasting over the frequency your antenna is tuned to, within that long time.
I dont know how you keep coming up with 525uW as the charging power value,but it is wrong.
You keep saying that 525 is our charging power,when in fact,it is the power being sent to the LED. The actual charging power value during the charging cycle is much lower than that.
QuoteI do not consider the charging power of 525μW "usable" for any practical flashlight. It is usable for powering low consumption electronics such as remote sensors, or perhaps even the tiny low power LED as a pilot light, but that was never questioned in this thread. EM harvesting for low consumption devices is known and used since decades, and nobody here ever expressed any doubts about it.
It's just a mater of scaling it up,and making the system more efficient. To say it cant be done makes you sound like MHs son,and following in his footsteps. The very same kind of thoughts came from those that some time back,laughed at the thought of turning the suns light energy directly into electrical energy. Like i said,i do not say i believe the ELFE dose what they claim,but i do say it is possible to charge a torch with 3 AA batteries in it over a 24 hour period using the available EM radiation. Who care's if it has to sit on a bench,and be plugged into a fixed harvester due to a long antenna wire,the fact remains it could be done--and this dose not confirm the ELFE is lagig(as i have noted on a number of occasions now).
QuoteThe tiny power is simply not useful for high-powered portable devices such as the 3W flashlight. If the ~70 millilumens that you can get out of 525μW, looks usable for you, then I admire your sight, but I can assure you that anyone who would buy a flashlight, finding it emits a few dozens of millilumens, would be highly disappointed.
Well it wouldnt be just 70 millilumens if the cap was allowed to charge for a 24 hour period,and we then dissipated that stored energy through an LED in a 3 hour period-now would it.
Did you grasp my experiment at all?-do you know what i was showing?. Can you really say that it is not possible ?.
Below is the circuit from the video. Put it together,and give it a shot. Then you can tell us all how much charging power it actually has,and then convert that into charge time for the AA batteries ;)
Brad
That circuit requires a DC power supply of 9 to 10 volts.
Hi Tinman and everyone.
I thought I might add a little to this conversation from a perspective of usable light. I do have experience in this field having worked with the late Mark E for nearly two years in developing a range led lights using very efficient circuits and LEDS ( efficiency of over 170 Lumens per watt. )
The UN sets a standard for solar powered lights that have to measure at least 25 lux at 80cm (I forget the width of coverage). To achieve this from my experience using the best circuits and LEDS you need at least 50mw. I work at much higher levels of illumination.
I could send dozens of documents with test data but I think for the sake of the argument your really at the bottom of the barrel at this level.
I tend to use at least 200mw in any type of room or desk light however in a flashlight 100mw can produce a decent light.
I have dozens of cells and experiments running as we speak.
This is one of our many products to be launched this year.
I will not get into a debate about harvesting RF and EMF I just wanted to put my experience in regarding what I would call usable light.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1993414184/the-hydra-light-pl-500-salt-water-energycell-lante
Kind Regards
Mark
Quote from: MileHigh on February 29, 2016, 09:23:11 AM
That circuit requires a DC power supply of 9 to 10 volts.
Only if you wish to drive large speakers.
As can be seen and heard in the video,it will work fine without the battery.
Brad
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMI dont know how you keep coming up with 525uW as the charging power value,but it is wrong.
It comes from the first reading of the two multimeters in your video. One shows the voltage of 0.175V and the other one the current of 0.003A. That gives the power of
525μW.
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMYou keep saying that 525 is our charging power,when in fact,it is the power being sent to the LED.
It does not matter where you send it. It is the power your antenna harvests, so either you send it to the LED, and then cannot charge any battery, or you send it to the AA battery, and you will need
8 months to fully charge a single AA cell.
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMThe actual charging power value during the charging cycle is much lower than that.
If the actual charging power is
even smaller than those 525μW as you tell, then it will take proportionally
longer to charge the battery (it means even longer than those 8 months).
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMIt's just a mater of scaling it up,and making the system more efficient.
If you want to run around with a
1,000 - 100,000 times bigger antenna to power your flashlight, then yes, of course you can scale it up. I am afraid you will need a truck to move around with this single flashlight and its antenna.
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMTo say it cant be done makes you sound like MHs son,and following in his footsteps. The very same kind of thoughts came from those that some time back,laughed at the thought of turning the suns light energy directly into electrical energy.
No idea who is MHs son, but
photovoltaics is known since 1849, so I doubt anyone laughed about "turning the suns light energy directly into electrical energy" in the last 175 years, or so. And it is doubtfull than anyone laughed about it before 1849, because normal people did not know much about the electricity anyway.
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AM...but i do say it is possible to charge a torch with 3 AA batteries in it over a 24 hour period using the available EM radiation.
No,
it is not possible at this size, as I demonstrated by the calculation and as you confirmed with your video too.
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMWho care's if it has to sit on a bench,and be plugged into a fixed harvester due to a long antenna wire,the fact remains it could be done
Yes, it could be done if you use an antenna approximately 1,000 times bigger than you did, and stay always as close to the transmitter tower as you are now.
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMWell it wouldnt be just 70 millilumens if the cap was allowed to charge for a 24 hour period,and we then dissipated that stored energy through an LED in a 3 hour period-now would it.
That's correct, of course. If you charge the cap (or a battery) with 525μW during 24 hours, and let it light only 3 hours, you will get
8 times higher power (24/3 = 8 ). 8 times 525μW gives the power of 4.2mW, and at the LED efficiency of 150lm/W it gives 0.63 lumen. Still not usable for a torch.
Quote from: tinman on February 29, 2016, 08:20:36 AMDid you grasp my experiment at all?-do you know what i was showing?. Can you really say that it is not possible ?.
Below is the circuit from the video. Put it together,and give it a shot. Then you can tell us all how much charging power it actually has,and then convert that into charge time for the AA batteries ;)
I am afraid that it is you who does not understand what you are doing. The circuit is irrelevant.
No electronic circuit can generate energy. So if the input mean power is 525μW, the output mean power is 525μW minus the consumption of the circuit. When you use the input power to put it out in pulses instead of continuous DC power, the immediate output power of the pulse is amplified, but then it is followed by zero output period, so
the total energy going out of the circuit will never exceed the input energy. If you do not understand this, it makes no sense to discuss any further. So if your antenna harvests 525μW of continuous power, there is no way you could ever get more than 525μWh of energy on the output within one hour.
Quote from: txt on February 29, 2016, 11:49:17 AM
...
If you want to run around with a 1,000 - 100,000 times bigger antenna to power your flashlight, then yes, of course you can scale it up. I am afraid you will need a truck to move around with this single flashlight and its antenna.
...
guys, take a look at this:
http://www.engineersedge.com/copper_wire.htm
I BELIEVE even if the smallest gauge (40) wire on this list would be several layers on the barrel of the flashlight at, say, 1/2" for the diameter. It won't weigh much for a 1,000 ft. length, but you'd also need a transformer somewhere in the barrel to step down the voltage to a reasonable level. And at least one diode and a capacitor to render it to pulsating DC.
I still agree with the nay-sayers.
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on March 01, 2016, 02:44:21 PMI BELIEVE even if the smallest gauge (40) wire on this list would be several layers on the barrel of the flashlight at, say, 1/2" for the diameter. It won't weigh much for a 1,000 ft. length, but you'd also need a transformer somewhere in the barrel to step down the voltage to a reasonable level. And at least one diode and a capacitor to render it to pulsating DC.
I am not sure whether it was a joke, or whether you have no idea how antennas work.
It looks like you think that the longer wire you use, the higher power and voltage you get. And additionally you also seem to believe that winding the wire on a cylinder will not change anything. I am sorry to disappoint you, but both of it is terribly wrong.
At a mono-pole antenna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopole_antenna) the length is determined by the wavelength of the frequency you want to receive (more precisely the antenna should be long a ¼ of the wavelength), and the pole has to be straight. You can have also so-called long wire (or random wire) antenna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_wire_antenna), but it cannot be wound on a cylinder either. Your wire wound on the flashlight would be closest to the loop antenna (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop_antenna), but again the idea, that the longer wire you use, the more power you get, is very naive. Each antenna has certain effective aperture area, and certain gain - both of them depend on the construction of the antenna, and its dimensions, but definitely not proportionally on the length of the conductor they use. The dimensions must be tuned to the received or emitted frequency.
Just an update about ELFE flashlight testing. Besides the ELFE failures demonstrated by Overunity users TheCell and Skywatcher, there are also several other ELFE flashlight owners who post about their testing in the ELFE Owners Facebook Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/447575128775098/). I collected all available results from all sources I found (OU, FB, and YT), and summarized them in the ELFE thread at Metabunk (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-176739). So far, I am aware of 6 completed (or partially completed) tests of the ELFE flashlight, and one is still in the starting phase. All six owners observed the same behavior, and all of them came to the same conclusion that the ELFE flashlight does not work as advertised. The results of the 7th test in progress show the same characteristics as well. There is no known test confirming the claims of ADGEX.
If there is anyone being aware of any other tests, not listed in the summary, please let me know. If there is anybody who still believes that the ELFE harvesting technology does exist and works, please post your argumentation, so that we can discuss it.
PS: many thanks and credits especially to Skywatcher for his very systematic, precise, and almost scientifically professional proceedings!
Quote from: txt on March 02, 2016, 03:41:42 AM
Just an update about ELFE flashlight testing. Besides the ELFE failures demonstrated by Overunity users TheCell and Skywatcher, there are also several other ELFE flashlight owners who post about their testing in the ELFE Owners Facebook Group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/447575128775098/). I collected all available results from all sources I found (OU, FB, and YT), and summarized them in the ELFE thread at Metabunk (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-176739). So far, I am aware of 6 completed (or partially completed) tests of the ELFE flashlight, and one is still in the starting phase. All six owners observed the same behavior, and all of them came to the same conclusion that the ELFE flashlight does not work as advertised. The results of the 7th test in progress show the same characteristics as well. There is no known test confirming the claims of ADGEX.
If there is anyone being aware of any other tests, not listed in the summary, please let me know. If there is anybody who still believes that the ELFE harvesting technology does exist and works, please post your argumentation, so that we can discuss it.
PS: many thanks and credits especially to Skywatcher for his very systematic, precise, and almost scientifically professional proceedings!
Thanks TXT I will update Revolution-Green
Some news from Adgex:
Today i received an email where they apologized for my 'unpleasant experience' and offered to send me a free new lamp without the need to send back the old one.
They said that the glue used for sealing had some negative effects on some contacts, and this prevents it from correctly recharging the accumulators.
For me this explanation is beyond comprehension (and beyond my technical understanding) but we will see...
The more rational explanation would be that they want to buy some more time to collect money from their investors. ???
Quote from: txt on March 01, 2016, 03:25:59 PM
I am not sure whether it was a joke, or whether you have no idea how antennas work.
It looks like you think that the longer wire you use, the higher power and voltage you get. And additionally you also seem to believe that winding the wire on a cylinder will not change anything. I am sorry to disappoint you, but both of it is terribly wrong.
I have a long time on this borrowed computer, but it's strongly filtered as to several categories, let alone politically
incorrect subjects like p.o.r.n. (The individual 'periods' were necessary to be able to print the word on final, compiled Internet version you see here.)
I will say, starting with these...
http://www.virhistory.com/navy/xmtrs/vlf/lua-ant-01.JPG
http://www.virhistory.com/navy/xmtrs/vlf/yosami-02.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Cutler_VLF_antenna_array.png
http://www.virhistory.com/navy/commsta/anna/annapolis-ant-01.JPG
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Antenna_location_at_the_US_Naval_Communication_Station_Harold_E._Holt_in_Exmouth,_Western_Australia,_1972.png
http://nautilus.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/MHFCS-Tx-antenna-schematic-v2-Parlt-pub-Works-Ctee.jpg
http://www.antenna.it/military/images%20military/wire.directional.log.periodic.antennas.hf.2.jpg
(There are a lot more schematic drawing renderings available, but I was looking for the biggest ones. The HAARP transmitting antenna is for ULF frequencies, I believe, and should be just plain i
mmense. ...that large, long wire antennas can be used effectively. Now, have you heard of Hermann Plauson?
http://www.mareasistemi.com/DIDATTICA%2027/Hermann%20Plauson%20%20Conversion%20of%20Atmospheric%20Electricity%20(Articles%20&%20patents).htm
and...
http://www.mareasistemi.com/DIDATTICA%2027/Hermann%20Plauson%20%20Conversion%20of%20Atmospheric%20Electricity%20(Articles%20&%20patents).htm#scinvjune28
(Pg. 59 to 86 of this MSS: http://www.sharingtechnology.net/People/T_Henry_%20Moray/pdf/radiant_energy.pdf
Plausson's patent by itself...
https://www.google.com/patents/US1540998
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat1540998.pdf
If you look at patent #1,540,998 you'll see he favors suspending a very long circular coil of wire from balloons (the likes of weather balloons). No, this won't work. I've already mentioned this elsewhere when it was pointed out to me. I suggested going to the Bonneville Salt Flats or a mountain arrangement in the Rockies as an alternative. Replace the balloons with tall poles (wooden or steel, is better) and make them as high as possible with guy wires, as needed.
I've never looked for highest efficiency with what I said was good in a design. (Too much work and difficult to achieve.) The long wire isn't efficient. I know this. It's simply and can even be used
on the ground if the wire is extremely well insulated.
I remember reading an Internet source that said a radio experimenter in NYC went to Central Park one night and stretched a 1,000' roll of wire on the ground in a generally Northeasterly direction because he was aiming at reception of commercial broadcasting in England or Ireland, as well as possibly Iceland. At the radio end he attached a 1 megohm resistor to keep the power generated by the wire from frying his radio detection circuit. He claimed to have been successful when he switched to the longest wave band his radio would receive.
Have I made a point, here? Long wires can be used, and have been, by Marconi, in radiotelegraphy. Questions? Further comments? Just ask them. They can offer me a further opportunity to explain what I mean in research, as an ongoing effort.
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on March 02, 2016, 01:30:53 PMHave I made a point, here? Long wires can be used, and have been, by Marconi, in radiotelegraphy.
Yes, you made a point. Now it is clear that you did not joke. You really do not have a clue how antennas work. As I explained, long wires can be used, and are indeed used as antennas. However, they have to have their geometry, and/or length, and also the wire or rod thickness (and hence the impedance) pretty well tuned for the required frequency. The very long and very thin wire wound on a metallic cylinder, as you suggest, simply won't work like you think.
As for Plauson - as far as I know, ADGEX did not specify that the flashlights work only with hundreds meters long antennas hung from an aerostat (balloon). If it is that case, it may explain why the flashlights do not work for anyone.
Quote from: skywatcher on March 02, 2016, 01:26:07 PMSome news from Adgex:
Today i received an email where they apologized for my 'unpleasant experience' and offered to send me a free new lamp without the need to send back the old one.
They said that the glue used for sealing had some negative effects on some contacts, and this prevents it from correctly recharging the accumulators.
For me this explanation is beyond comprehension (and beyond my technical understanding) but we will see...
The more rational explanation would be that they want to buy some more time to collect money from their investors. ???
Yes, everyone who complained, received this email. You will get the replacement with another unfortunate defect in a few months. In the meantime investors race to buy more shares of ADGEX.
Quote from: txt on March 02, 2016, 02:50:09 PM
Yes, you made a point. Now it is clear that you did not joke. You really do not have a clue how antennas work.
That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I was showing that extremely large antennas can produce power and aren't necessarily energy efficient as power generators. Obviously. That's what I implied and that's what I'm saying. I further say they're often designed as transmitters for extremely low frequencies and can be constructed with varying lengths of wire as subassemblies. They're capable of reacting with various frequencies, IMO. Obviously, again. But, whether they were designed that way would or not would most likely require consulting a more complete, accurate reference on that antenna or ask the original designing electrical engineer, if possible.
QuoteAs I explained, long wires can be used, and are indeed used as antennas.
I didn't see that in your post. If I did, I didn't pay close attention. We can agree that very long wire antennas can generate power, but the level efficiency can also be debateable.
QuoteHowever, they have to have their geometry, and/or length, and also the wire or rod thickness (and hence the impedance) pretty well tuned for the required frequency.
The designs were chosen for mere large size. Not whether they were built for transmitters or receivers. Lualualei, for example, was built for a transmitter, but it can also intercept incoming radio waves, as the drawing I uploaded is capable of being depicted. (The picture on the Wikipedia entry isn't the same as the hand drawing I uploaded.)
QuoteThe very long and very thin wire wound on a metallic cylinder, as you suggest, simply won't work like you think.
Here's my quote from posted reply #409:
"I BELIEVE even if the smallest gauge (40) wire on this list would be several layers on the barrel of the flashlight at, say, 1/2" for the diameter. It won't weigh much for a 1,000 ft. length, but you'd also need a transformer somewhere in the barrel to step down the voltage to a reasonable level. And at least one diode and a capacitor to render it to pulsating DC."[/size]
I didn't say it would do anything like you said? What did I say it would do? I said it would take several layers to get the power you need to charge (the "accumulators")---company's term for the correct power conservation part(s)?---that should be part of the flashlight. I said a transformer would be needed to lower the voltage and then a diode with capacitor would be required to supply pulsating DC. I said that. Above. What is your understanding that's different?
QuoteAs for Plauson - as far as I know, ADGEX did not specify that the flashlights work only with hundreds meters long antennas hung from an aerostat (balloon).
I said that part of the invention wouldn't work. My quote: "
If you look at patent #1,540,998 you'll see he favors suspending a very long circular coil of wire from balloons (the likes of weather balloons). No, this won't work." I expect very much that ADGEX didn't say anything about balloons. A balloon wouldn't make any difference unless it's electrically connected to the flashlight. A long wire? With a flashlight dangling from it? Talk about heavy. Talk about unwieldy. Talk about an unnecessary and ridiculous addition that should do nothing useful. Is this something you can think you can agree with as being accurate as a plausible possibility? You're very probably correct. ADGEX shouldn't have said anything about 'balloons'.[/size]
[/size]
QuoteIf it is that case, it may explain why the flashlights do not work for anyone.
Okay, that's a 'red flag'. In order to market a product that should be reasonably reliable, then thorough testing should be carried out in order to prove the things work and if they don't,
now, then why the hell is that so? What!? I didn't know that people were owning defective flashlights. The company would obviously keep the problem 'low-key', so as to protect their reputation and stock price---if they actually have stock shares.[/size]
[/size]
--Lee[/size]
p.s.
The "(/size)" words aren't being added by me. I
suspect, because of my security clearance and that I'm always being watched, these words are being added by persons unknown. For their own reasons. They don't have to tell me anything. The revised Homeland Security Act gives them the legal right to do just about anything they want.
p.p.s.
An 'accumulator' in Australia is a battery. Just so you know. There's a picture of one earlier in this thread. About Pg.9, I think. It's not linked to another site. Just the picture.
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on March 02, 2016, 09:32:28 PMI said it would take several layers to get the power you need to charge (the "accumulators")
No, sorry, you can put as many layers as you want, it will simply not work in the way you think, and you have no chance to charge the batteries with it.
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 04:15:30 AM
No, sorry, you can put as many layers as you want, it will simply not work in the way you think, and you have no chance to charge the batteries with it.
You are 100% correct as after the first layer you get the Faradays cage effect
Kind Regards
Mark
WOW!!!
I'm really disappointed in this community. The ELFE Flashlight appears to be based on a modified coherer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherer). Carefully study the basic operating principals in how the coherer operates in order to understand how the testing done on this forum and elsewhere has prevented their devices from functioning properly.
The basis for the operation of the coherer is that the metal particles (beads in this case) cohere or cling together and conduct electricity much better after being subjected to radio frequencies. The radio signal from the antenna is applied directly across the coherer's electrodes. When the radio signal from a "dot" or "dash" came in, the coherer would become conductive. The coherer's electrodes were also attached to a DC circuit powered by a battery that created a "click" sound in earphones or a telegraph sounder, or a mark on a paper tape, to record the signal. Unfortunately, the reduction in the coherer's electrical resistance persisted after the radio signal was removed. This was a problem because the coherer had to be ready immediately to receive the next "dot" or "dash". Therefore a decoherer mechanism was added, to tap the coherer, mechanically disturbing the particles to reset it to the high resistance state.
Coherence of particles by radio waves is an obscure phenomenon that is not well understood even today. Recent experiments with particle coherers seem to have confirmed the hypothesis that the particles cohere by a micro-weld phenomenon caused by radio frequencies flowing across the small contact area between particles. The underlying principle of so-called "imperfect contact" coherers is also not well understood, but may involve a kind of tunneling of charge carriers across an imperfect junction between conductors. Decohering isn't needed for the imperfect junction coherers.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 04:50:59 AM
WOW!!!
I'm really disappointed in this community. The ELFE Flashlight appears to be based on a modified coherer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherer). Carefully study the basic operating principals in how the coherer operates in order to understand how the testing done on this forum and elsewhere has prevented their devices from functioning properly.
The basis for the operation of the coherer is that the metal particles (beads in this case) cohere or cling together and conduct electricity much better after being subjected to radio frequencies. The radio signal from the antenna is applied directly across the coherer's electrodes. When the radio signal from a "dot" or "dash" came in, the coherer would become conductive. The coherer's electrodes were also attached to a DC circuit powered by a battery that created a "click" sound in earphones or a telegraph sounder, or a mark on a paper tape, to record the signal. Unfortunately, the reduction in the coherer's electrical resistance persisted after the radio signal was removed. This was a problem because the coherer had to be ready immediately to receive the next "dot" or "dash". Therefore a decoherer mechanism was added, to tap the coherer, mechanically disturbing the particles to reset it to the high resistance state.
Coherence of particles by radio waves is an obscure phenomenon that is not well understood even today. Recent experiments with particle coherers seem to have confirmed the hypothesis that the particles cohere by a micro-weld phenomenon caused by radio frequencies flowing across the small contact area between particles. The underlying principle of so-called "imperfect contact" coherers is also not well understood, but may involve a kind of tunneling of charge carriers across an imperfect junction between conductors. Decohering isn't needed for the imperfect junction coherers.
Gravock
A coherer acts as a memristor. A memristor is a passive two-terminal electronic component for which the resistance (dV/dI) depends in some way on the amount of charge that has flowed through the circuit. When current flows in one direction through the device, the resistance increases; and when current flows in the opposite direction, the resistance decreases. When the current is stopped, the component retains the last resistance that it had, and when the flow of charge starts again, the resistance of the circuit will be what it was when it was last active. Please note the trace curve (hysteresis) of the coherer and the memristor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRIPdr1lug&ebc) (video).
Gravock
Quote from: markdansie on March 03, 2016, 04:37:21 AMYou are 100% correct as after the first layer you get the Faradays cage effect
No, sorry Mark, not really. The wire wound around a cylinder is a simple coil. Coils with such small diameter are called "small loop antenna" or "magnetic loop". Small loop antennas do not couple with the electric field, they couple to the magnetic field, and as such the Faraday-cage effect is irrelevant. However, small loop antennas have extremely poor efficiency, but the main problem is that "the_big_m_in_ok" does not understand that the gain is definitely not at all proportional to the length of the wire used. It is a function of the geometry, the Q factor, the impendance, the inductive reactance, and the parallel capacitance that needs to tune the antenna to the required frequency. So no, more layers will not give more power.
The "ball" coherer, designed by Branly in 1899 (image posted in previous post) is an imperfect contact type with a series of lightly touching metal balls between two electrodes. This is similar with having loose contacts in the ELFE. The aluminum foil used to fix the loose contacts defeated the proper operation of the ELFE. The so-called batteries with poor contacts replaces the lightly touching balls in a coherer. The ELFE uses a copper tube (resonant chamber) instead of the glass tubes traditionally used in coherers.
Remember, the coherer is a primitive form of a radio signal detector used in the first radio receivers during the wireless telegraphy era at the beginning of the 20th century. Its use in radio was based on the 1890 findings of French physicist Edouard Branly and adapted by other physicists and inventors over the next ten years. The device consists of a tube or capsule containing two electrodes spaced a small distance apart with metal filings in the space between. When a radio frequency signal is applied to the device, the metal particles would cling together or "cohere", reducing the initial high resistance of the device, thereby allowing an electric current to flow through it. This is exactly how the ELFE has been designed to operate.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 04:50:59 AMThe ELFE Flashlight appears to be based on a modified coherer
Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no coherer in the ELFE flashlight. Besides it, coherers are terribly inefficient, and not usable for receiving AM or lower frequencies (they were originally invented for the detection of Morse pulses). And most importantly, as already shown before, the strength of the EM field is simply way too low to harvest this amount of energy with a device of the size of the flashlight, even if you had an antenna with 100% efficiency. Regardless if it is a coherer, small loop antenna, ferrite rod antenna, dipole, monopole, yagi, parabole, or whatever else.
Below is an image for a memristor test circuit. This test circuit should work with the coherers and with testing the ELFE flashlight. When S1 is closed the LED shows the status of the memristor. If the memristor is in the low resistance (on) state the led will light. If the memristor is in the high resistance state (off) the led will not light. S2 turns the memristor on. S3 turns the memristor off.
The 3 volt battery and 1k pot supply just enough voltage to light the led without effecting the on off state of the memristor.
Gravock
Coherer won't charge any batteries. You need to power the coherer that it can detect any impulses at all. In other words it consumes energy, it does not harvest it.
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 05:17:03 AM
No, sorry Mark, not really. The wire wound around a cylinder is a simple coil. Coils with such small diameter are called "small loop antenna" or "magnetic loop". Small loop antennas do not couple with the electric field, they couple to the magnetic field, and as such the Faraday-cage effect is irrelevant. However, small loop antennas have extremely poor efficiency, but the main problem is that "the_big_m_in_ok" does not understand that the gain is definitely not at all proportional to the length of the wire used. It is a function of the geometry, the Q factor, the impendance, the inductive reactance, and the parallel capacitance that needs to tune the antenna to the required frequency. So no, more layers will not give more power.
[/quote Not sure if you understood. The Faradays Cage effect would prevent any signal reaching lower layers.]
Quote from: markdansie on March 03, 2016, 06:47:48 AMNot sure if you understood. The Faradays Cage effect would prevent any signal reaching lower layers.
Of course I understand. But as I told, a small loop antenna couples directly to the magnetic field, while it is largely unaffected by the electric field (that's why it is also very well suited for electrically noisy environment, because it does not catch the parasitic electric field). And the Faraday cage shields only against the electric field, not against the magnetic field.
If you want to understand it better, imagine that the outer magnetic field interacts with the lines of force going through the axis of the coil, and around it - the deformation of that field caused by the interaction induces then the alternative current in the coil. It does not work like a mono-pole or a dipole antenna, where a static wave builds on the conductor. It is a completely different principle. Hence the shielding effect of the outer layers is irrelevant here.
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 05:30:06 AM
Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no coherer in the ELFE flashlight. Besides it, coherers are terribly inefficient, and not usable for receiving AM or lower frequencies (they were originally invented for the detection of Morse pulses). And most importantly, as already shown before, the strength of the EM field is simply way too low to harvest this amount of energy with a device of the size of the flashlight, even if you had an antenna with 100% efficiency. Regardless if it is a coherer, small loop antenna, ferrite rod antenna, dipole, monopole, yagi, parabole, or whatever else.
Wrong! A coherer simply acts as a switch that conducts current in the presence of radio waves, and thus does not have the capability to demodulate, or extract the audio signal from. The ELFE flashlight doesn't need to extract the audio!
In regards to the strength of the EM field being way too low to harvest this amount of energy with a device the size of a flashlight is also wrong. Imagine a body that moves at velocity v in a region where there exist an electric field E and a magnetic field B. Then an electric charge Q inside the body feels a force Q(E + v x B). Thus, inside the moving body, the v x B field acts like the electric field of a distributed source. We are concerned here with the conducting media that move in magnetic fields. We shall see that they carry electrostatic charges whose field is just as important as v x B.
It's well known that conductors do not support an electric space charge; any extra charge deposited inside moves out to the periphery almost instantaneously (Lorrain et al 1988, p 75). However, few physicists realise that conductors do carry an electric space charge when subjected to a v x B field whose divergence is not equal to zero. If the conductor is isolated, then it also carries a compensating surface charge.
In other-words, the presence of RF causes the batteries to micro-weld or cohere in the ELFE allowing current to flow through the device. This causes the batteries inside the resonant chamber to feel a force Q(E + v x B) which causes the batteries to decohere. This induces very tiny vibrations within the resonant chamber which has an effect that is similar to the "Shake" flashlights.
Reference: Electrostatic charges in v x B fields: the Faraday disk and the rotating sphere (http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~mcdonald/examples/EM/lorrain_ejp_11_94_90.pdf)
Gravock
With permission from Adgex, i'm posting my last email exchange with them, for your information (or entertainment ;) ).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Mr. xxxxxxxxxx!
First of all, I'd like to present our apologies for such unpleasant experience with ELFE flashlight.
We are investigating the problem now and we believe that it is associated with the glueing matter, which were used for sealing the flashlight.
At the end of the last year, we figured out that some of the flashlight had a defect button, and we revoked all batch to rectify the fault.
As per well-grounded recommendation of our supplier, we took a desicion to use a special glue to eliminate the defect we had.
Apparently, using glueing matter have happened to be a chemical substance, which fixed the button problem but at the same isolated and even damaged some contact points, essentially required for seamless charging of the flashlight.
We are deeply dissapointed over the incident, but we will put forth all our exertions to ascertain and subsequently correct the fault.
We are sure about ELFE's capabilities so we will change all faulty flashlights free of charge. No need to send them back, once the defect is rectified, we will ship you new and fully serviceable ELFE.
Should you need any further support, please contact me without hesitation
Best Regards,
Vasily Muzanov
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Mr. Muzanov,
thanks for your positive answer. :)
Although your explanation is not really compatible to my technical knowledge ;) i appreciate your offer to
replace the unit and i will be happy to give it a second try. For the replacement the color is not important
so if you only have certain colors it doesn't matter what color it has.
Your explanation sounds not logical to me, because when the switch is off it should not matter if the contact
is good or not. And it's beyond my comprehension how accumulators should be recharged in an open circuit.
The only possibility i can imagine is that they are recharged by their internal chemistry itself, but then the
contact also should be irrelevant.
So i hope you are really sure that your technology really works, otherwise we could skip the second try and refund the money...
Can i post your email on the overunity forum ? Maybe it would be also interesting to other users.
Best regards,
xxxxxxxxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. xxxxxxxxxxx!
We believe that glue has affected some parts of converting module (which grabs environmental energy and converts it into electrical) and/or its contacts with accumulators (where converted energy is stored).
We are still working on investigating the reason of the malfunction.
I will keep you updated on the progress of our work
Feel yourself free to post it at respective websites
Regards,
Vasily Muzanov
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 05:43:22 AM
Coherer won't charge any batteries. You need to power the coherer that it can detect any impulses at all. In other words it consumes energy, it does not harvest it.
Once again, a coherer simply acts as a switch that conducts current in the presence of radio waves. The coherer doesn't need an external power source other than RF in order to act as a switch for current to flow and to induce tiny vibrations inside the resonant chamber due to the cohering and decohering of the so-called batteries.
Gravock
If we take Mr. Muzanov's infos at face value, we can conclude the following:
a) If the glue has damaged any contacts, there must be more contacts inside the switch as expected, because the normal switch functionality is working well.
b) There must be some 'converter' inside the switch which harvests and converts the energy.
c) This means: there is nothing special about the accumulators.
d) Because charging doesn't work in an open circuit, there must be some sort of circuit inside the switch which switches off the LED but allows current to flow into the accumulators.
But how can this be possible without lighting the LED ?
That's pretty hard stuff to beleive... :o
Good evening and now we return to.....
The Dead Zone.
Bill
PS I think that the only thing being accumulated here is money.
Quote from: Pirate88179 on March 03, 2016, 02:33:12 PM
PS I think that the only thing being accumulated here is money.
Money is also some sort of energy, so it's 'free energy'. At least for them. ;)
Quote from: skywatcher on March 03, 2016, 02:25:13 PM
If we take Mr. Muzanov's infos at face value, we can conclude the following:
a) If the glue has damaged any contacts, there must be more contacts inside the switch as expected, because the normal switch functionality is working well.
b) There must be some 'converter' inside the switch which harvests and converts the energy.
c) This means: there is nothing special about the accumulators.
d) Because charging doesn't work in an open circuit, there must be some sort of circuit inside the switch which switches off the LED but allows current to flow into the accumulators.
But how can this be possible without lighting the LED ?
Yes, exactly, those are the questions I asked already when the video of Mr. Ivchenko appeared on YouTube a few weeks ago. As I speak some Russian, I understood what he explained. The "converter" is the white plastic holder of the LED. The energy is supposed to come from the aluminium body of the flashlight - the "resonator". As I wrote already previously, the journalist doing the interview, did not have the courtesy to ask Mr. Ivchenko how the energy gets into the batteries when the circuit is interrupted by the switch.
And, BTW, the only ELFE owner who's initial claim about the recharging of the flashlight was used by PESN as the evidence of its functionality, is Rasa Viharii. Today he withdrew his original claims and tells his flashlight does not work either. Anyway, he bought five (!) of them, so he wants to test the others too, now. He completely disassembled the first one, and the content looks exactly like in the videos of the Russian customers, or like in the video of Mr. Ivchenko, ADGEX technical director. I do not think there are any additional contacts in the back button, but you can ask Rasa for some macro photos of the button switch to see it better. Have a look at the post in his FB profile at https://www.facebook.com/rasaviharii?fref=grp_mmbr_list
Deleted (similar post).....
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 02:00:18 PMA coherer simply acts as a switch that conducts current in the presence of radio waves,...
YES! Here you are finally almost perfectly right! And since the coherer works as a switch, exactly as you tell, it does not generate any power - it only switches the power that is fed to it by an external source (i.e. battery). It is nice you agree.
You made only a minor mistake - the coherer does not work well with waves. It needs pretty steep impulses. Waves will not work.
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 03:45:39 PM
YES! Here you are finally perfectly right! And since the coherer works as a switch, exactly as you tell, it does not generate any power - it only switches the power that is fed to it by an external source (i.e. battery). It is nice you agree.
You made only a minor mistake - the coherer does not work well with waves. It needs pretty steep impulses. Waves will not work.
Another false assertion by you. The cumbersome mechanical "decohering" mechanism limited
the coherer to a receiving speed of 12 - 15 words per minute of Morse code. The "imperfect
contact" coherers don't need the cumbersome mechanical decohering mechanism, thus it works
well with waves also.
Below is an image of a Tripod coherer, built by Branly in 1902, another imperfect contact type.
Although most coherers functioned as "switches" that turned on a DC current from a battery in
the presence of radio waves, this may be one of the first rectifying (diode) detectors, because
Branly reported it could produce a DC current without a battery. <----------Energy HarvestingGravock
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 03:52:33 PMAnother false assertion by you...
I have to disappoint you. There is still a battery in the circuit. It is even in the schema you posted yourself on the previous page. And it is in every single coherer schema you can find.
Try for example this: https://www.google.com/search?q=coherer+schema
And the battery is there as a source of power. Definitely not to be recharged by by the coherer.
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 04:12:58 PM
I have to disappoint you. There is still a battery in the circuit. It is even in the schema you posted yourself on the previous page. And it is in every single coherer schema you can find.
And the battery is there as a source of power. Definitely not to be recharged by by the coherer.[/size]
Try for example this: https://www.google.com/search?q=coherer+schema (https://www.google.com/search?q=coherer+schema)
Battery or no battery in the circuit is totally irrelevant. It's already been clearly shown that the coherers can produce a DC current without the need for batteries. Now, how are you going to store the DC current produced by the coherers in order to light an LED after a sufficient charge has been built up? A battery of course, lol!
The schema I posted on the previous page with a battery in the circuit is to test the state of the memristors and coherers and has nothing to do with producing a DC current without a battery, lol.
Gravock
I suppose you power your house with coherers, don't you?
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 04:44:58 PM
I suppose you power your house with coherers, don't you?
Your comment above isn't a scientific or mathematical rebuttal.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 03:52:33 PM... this may be one of the first rectifying (diode) detectors, because Branly reported it could produce a DC current without a battery. <----------Energy Harvesting
You misinterpreted the text again. The coherer does
not make any energy harvesting at all. The tripod coherer is simply just a very primitive
diode,
and hence it can convert the AC signal from an
antenna to DC, just like the crystal in a crystal radio does, or like a Si diode does in modern circuits,
much more efficiently. It would be the utmost stupid idea to use a giant ineffective coherer instead of a microscopic and very efficient diode.
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 04:52:53 PM
Your comment above isn't a scientific or mathematical rebuttal.
Gravock
Are you saying he was not coherent?
(Sorry, I could not resist)
Bill
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 04:55:47 PM
You misinterpreted the text again. The coherer does not make any energy harvesting at all. The tripod coherer is simply just a very primitive diode,
and hence it can convert the AC signal from an antenna to DC, just like the crystal in a crystal radio does, or like a Si diode does in modern circuits,
much more efficiently. It would be the utmost stupid idea to use a giant ineffective coherer instead of a microscopic and very efficient diode.
Avramenko's plug (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm)
Gravock
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 05:24:32 PM
Pavlov's reflex
Psychological projection. Don't throw your short-comings off onto me!
Gravock
Pavlov's reflex is as related to ELFE or coherers (or whatever else in this thread you wanted to point to) as Avramenko's plug is.
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 05:55:58 PM
Pavlov's reflex is as related to ELFE or coherers (or whatever else in this thread you wanted to point to) as Avramenko's plug is.
You're totally lost! The Avramenko plug, as shown by JL Naudin, demonstrates RF being harvested for energy. His Test Results : "When the AFEP generator is switched on, the xenon tube flash immediately with the same strength and period than without the line. This confirms the Avramenko's claim", and is empirical evidence supporting the ELFE's design and claims. The Avramenko plug is made of diodes, just like the coherers can be considered a "primitive diode". The LED's are diodes.... Wake Up!
Gravock
Before you post your next BS, please study at least what it is about. You will save the time of all of us.
Avramenko's plug has nothing to do with energy harvesting. It is "means for transmission of electrical energy from the initial source to a consuming device via a single-wire transmission line"
As you may know, the ELFE flashlight does not use any wire to plug into any source. At least ADGEX does not ship any cable with it, and never spoke about the necessity of plugging the flashlight somewhere.
Quote from: txt on March 03, 2016, 06:52:03 PM
Before you post your next BS, please study at least what it is about. You will save the time of all of us.
Avramenko's plug has nothing to do with energy harvesting. It is "means for transmission of electrical energy from the initial source to a consuming device via a single-wire transmission line"
As you may know, the ELFE flashlight does not use any wire to plug into any source. At least ADGEX does not ship any cable with it, and never spoke about the necessity of plugging the flashlight somewhere.
More misdirection by you! When the AFEP generator is switched on, the xenon tube flash immediately
with the same strength and period than without the line. This confirms the Avramenko's claim.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 07:38:01 PMMore misdirection by you!
You have a very short memory. I have proven wrong every single nonsensical claim of yours. All misdirection comes only from you, and so it is in this case again.
Quote from: gravityblock on March 03, 2016, 07:38:01 PMWhen the AFEP generator is switched on, the xenon tube flash immediately with the same strength and period than without the line. This confirms the Avramenko's claim.
Read Avramenko's patent and the article you linked again. You misinterpret their words in the most stupid way possible. The purpose of the test was
"to check the inventor's claim about the energy transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug." and no energy harvesting. And when they tell
"When the AFEP generator is switched on, the xenon tube flash immediately with the same strenght and period than without the line", it means that they confirmed that the tube can be powered by a single wire and that the tube lights with the same intensity as without the Avramenko's plug, powered in the standard way (with two wires).
If the tube lighted without Avramenko's plug and without any wires at all, it would not prove Avramenko's claim - it would prove that Avramenko's plug is not necessary at all, and that energy can be transmitted wirelessly without it. It would have been a failure, and not a success as clearly written in the article you linked. And if the tube lighted without any wires, it would not mean anything else than that there was a very strong EM field in the lab. You can get tubes lighting without wires easily in a very close proximity of high-power lines, where the gradient of the EM field is very steep. There is nothing magic or miraculous on it. It still does not mean you can harvest similarly high amounts of ambient energy in standard average environment.
Check out Avramenko's patent at http://www.google.com/patents/EP0639301A1 There is not a single word about energy harvesting. Its sole and only purpose is the single-wire transfer.
Quote from: txt on March 04, 2016, 03:05:03 AM
You have a very short memory. I have proven wrong every single nonsensical claim of yours. All misdirection comes only from you, and so it is in this case again.
Read Avramenko's patent and the article you linked again. You misinterpret their words in the most stupid way possible. The purpose of the test was "to check the inventor's claim about the energy transmission through a single wire with the Avramenko's plug." and no energy harvesting. And when they tell "When the AFEP generator is switched on, the xenon tube flash immediately with the same strenght and period than without the line", it means that they confirmed that the tube can be powered by a single wire and that the tube lights with the same intensity as without the Avramenko's plug, powered in the standard way (with two wires).
If the tube lighted without Avramenko's plug and without any wires at all, it would not prove Avramenko's claim - it would prove that Avramenko's plug is not necessary at all, and that energy can be transmitted wirelessly without it. It would have been a failure, and not a success as clearly written in the article you linked. And if the tube lighted without any wires, it would not mean anything else than that there was a very strong EM field in the lab. You can get tubes lighting without wires easily in a very close proximity of high-power lines, where the gradient of the EM field is very steep. There is nothing magic or miraculous on it. It still does not mean you can harvest similarly high amounts of ambient energy in standard average environment.
Check out Avramenko's patent at http://www.google.com/patents/EP0639301A1 (http://www.google.com/patents/EP0639301A1) There is not a single word about energy harvesting. Its sole and only purpose is the single-wire transfer.
I hope you realize the single-wire transfer generates longitudinal waves. This is a near field phenomenon, which has already been mentioned in this topic. The wireless energy transmitted from a single mobile phone is capable of lighting a LED (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3STmUVeUw8). Longitudinal waves are mentioned in the patent and in the reference links on JL Naudins site. According to JLN, "Energy is transmitted through the single-wire and free electrons sucked from the air are used for triggering the flash..." If sucking free electrons from the air isn't energy harvesting, then I don't know what is! You should study the link I provided earlier on surface and space charges.
Gravock
Quote from: gravityblock on March 04, 2016, 04:26:27 AM
I hope you realize the single-wire transfer generates longitudinal waves. This is a near field phenomenon, which has already been mentioned in this topic. The wireless Energy transmitted from your mobile phone is capable of lighting a LED (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3STmUVeUw8). Longitudinal waves are mentioned in the patent and in the reference links on JL Naudins site. According to JLN, "Energy is transmitted through the single-wire and free electrons sucked from the air are used for triggering the flash..." If sucking free electrons from the air isn't energy harvesting, then I don't know what is!
It looks like you do not understand what longitudinal waves are. You can read about them for example in Wikipedia. There is nothing magical about them, they are very common types of waves. Sound waves are the typical example of longitudinal waves. I have no idea what you mean by "near field phenomenon", but longitudinal waves are not limited by distances. I guess you used the term just because you think it looks magical enough to make some impression.
Lighting dimly a tiny LED with a few microwatts at the distance of the antenna from the phone of about a centimeter, is also no miracle. Every kid could explain you why (check Inverse Square Law). The video you posted, demonstrates perfectly how small the levels of available ambient RF energy are, and how quickly they dissipate with distance from the source - the phone typically emits with the power of some 2W, but already at few millimeters from the source the gain is just in microwatts (the tiny diode has typical nominal power of units of milliwatt, but it is blinking just dimly and shortly far below its nominal brightness, despite using quite a big loop antena).
And no, the "sucking of electrons from the air" is no energy harvesting. It is simply the interaction of the EM field of the tube with the environment. The EM field on the tube is created with the help of the diodes and the capacitor, who are fed the energy with the standing wave through the single-wire feed from the generator. It is a principle similar to monopole or long-wire antennas, with the difference that both ends are connected here, and that there is no wireless transmission. In other words, the energy does not come from the air, it comes from the generator. Again, read the patent of Avramenko for the detailed explanation.
I believe that a coherer was a device that caused a magnetic field to modulate it's internal contact resistance
carrying a DC current derived from an external DC source. The magnetic field could have been cause by an RF
current capacitively coupled internally. So you have iron filings maybe surrounding a magnet and the RF current
caused the iron filings to "seat" closer to one another lowering the devices internal resistance depending on the
peak RF magnitude. (similar to shaking a sandcasting mold) The RF would have already been seeing low
resistance because of the capacitive coupling of the iron filings. So unlike a diode used detect the RF AC the
coherer would not have rectified and converted the signal to a DC voltage. But the RF would have modulated the
device's internal impedance so to form kind of an electromechanical amplifier or relay. One more thing, the iron
filings did not decohere themselves so the device needed an electromagnetic tapper to periodically reset the iron
filings to a more random busseled state. This thing was modeled on the carbon microphones used in telephones of
the time. These devices would have been used to detect telegraphic CW continuous wave modulation on an RF
carrier and probably would not have worked very well in the audio range. It's clear that this device would
have died with the advent of higher bandwidth semiconductor rectifiers, electronic amplifiers, and BFO beat
frequency oscillators for CW reception.
the end result: the ELFE is a fake, as are (at least so far) all OU devices.
Quote from: mscoffman on March 04, 2016, 02:38:18 PMSo unlike a diode used detect the RF AC the
coherer would not have rectified and converted the signal to a DC voltage.
Yes, that's true for coherers generally, except of the Tripod coherer by Branly (shown earlier in this thread), that was claimed to be able of rectifying AC to DC, at least to certain degree. Still, its efficiency, sensitivity, stability, and suitability for rectifying wide spectrum of RF would be very far from the quality of standard semiconductor diodes.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/elfe-the-energy-free-flashlight--2#/
At least it has become cheaper: for $125 you will get 20 flashlights. ::)
Yes, it looks like ADGEX starts to dump their stock of the flashlights, because even hard-core Free Energy fans now see ELFE is nothing else than an ordinary torch. The number of failed tests grow every week - so far there are 11 known tests - all of them failed completely. See the details
here (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285/#post-176739). ADGEX was notified about it many times by customers - they always answer they are aware of the problem and that they will ship a new flashlight as soon as they fix it. However, they do not hesitate to ship the non-functional flashlights to any new customers. This situation continues since the end of November 2015.
The most funny is that the Indiegogo campaign was started by Viktor Uzlov, the Managing Director of ADGEX. The identity was verified by Indiegogo, and it uses the same Facebook account and email as Viktor Uzlov uses on Facebook too. Still, Vasily Muzanov, the ELFE project manager, has sent the following letter when asked by a customer:
QuoteHello Mr. H***n!
We have nothing to do with the campaign at indiegogo.com
This campaign contents fraudulent information, infinges intellectual property rights and was published without any consent from our Company
We have raised a claim about removing of the post from indiegogo and waiting details of its author to file charges against him.
Please be advised that the only place where you can purchase ELFE is our official trading platform www.trade.adgex.com.au
If you see any links at other websites, they MUST redirect you to www.trade.adgex.com.au
There is no any other place to buy ELFE for now!
As regards your case with defective ELFE, we have figured out the problem and now fixing all faulty flashlights we have
Later on today when our European division opens, I will get some infrormation about shipping terms of new serviceable ELFE to you
I will inform you today just after I receive this information
Best Regards,
Vasily Muzanov
ADGEX
It looks like the company is not even able to write a single sentence that would not be a complete lie.
Wow!! If I paid $100 for one, I would be really pissed that you can now buy one for what...$6?
We know they don't work as advertised but, i would much rather be out 6 than 100 dollars. Thanks for this update.
Bill
Now the indiegogo campaign is offline.
Quote from: skywatcher on March 23, 2016, 03:42:51 PM
Now the indiegogo campaign is offline.
Yes, exactly. I've sent them the link to the Metabunk thread (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285), and they closed it very promptly :)
Quote from: txt on March 23, 2016, 05:08:12 PM
Yes, exactly. I've sent them the link to the Metabunk thread (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285), and they closed it very promptly :)
Good for you, and good for them for closing it down so fast. I'm guessing that these scammers will pop back up again somewhere else very soon.
Bill
Doubly good for you! There wasn't even a "campaign." They offered no project and no value whatsoever. It was just shameless begging for money.
Quote from: txt on March 23, 2016, 05:08:12 PM
Yes, exactly. I've sent them the link to the Metabunk thread (https://www.metabunk.org/claim-harvesting-energy-from-schumann-resonances-and-earths-em-field-adgex.t7285), and they closed it very promptly :)
Well done, I ran the article at R-G and know a few people who also reported it.
Kind Regards
Mark
Update:
They sent me a new flashlight some weeks ago which should have all problems fixed.
But the first test showed that it didn't work as well, in fact it was even worse than the first one.
I also did not see any significant differences, only a blob of solder on one of the accumulators to fix the problem of loose contacts.
Some days later, they asked me if i received the flashlight and if i could send back the first one.
I replied that i want to send back both of them, and would like to have a full refund of $99 plus shipping fees.
They agreed without any discussion, and today i received my money back via PayPal.
So at least i can not complain about their customer service. Of course the 'customer satisfaction' would have been greater if the product had worked....
Glad at least you got your money back - guess we can label this one a 'scam'. They probably get enough people that just don't want to go to the trouble of dealing with it or even testing it to see it's not what is claimed so they end up making money on it. Thank you for investing your time and money to check this out. It's good they were taking PayPal since PayPal now gives up to 6 months to get your money back if sellers won't.